Sorry, but what has this to do with what I posted? The places on the map where you pick up the old crafting materials will have to be replaced. So the devs will have to go in and spend however long it takes for just one map to remove the old crafting material nodes so that the old materials no longer drop and replace them with nodes for the new crafting materials. Then you have to test and edit to make sure that all nodes are accessible.
The process doesn't seem long but doing that for every single map in every single mission when there are probably thousands of them does take up a tremendous amount of time, that frankly can be better spend.
If the missions were procedurally generated then I'm sure they could write a script that simply removed them from the missions themselves, and made the crafting mats drop from mission rewards rather than being in the maps themselves.
It would also be easy enough to remove the scan nodes from the clusters themselves, removing a farming opportunity, which seems to be what cryptic really wants from this removal *cough*content massacre.
I have to agree with you regarding State of Q, I don't think that should have been removed. It should have been kept in game.
However I think with a system change as drastic as the Crafting System has undergone. Then you also have to think about the costs involved in changing missions to this new system.
The Star cluster missions are lousy with Anomalies, there are thousands upon thousands of maps and all of these maps would have to be updated to the new system. Which as I said is a lot of work.
Again, if it was procedurally generated then logic holds that it should be possible to write a script that simply removes the anomaly nodes from the missions. The crafting mats could then drop from the mission rewards. Simple enough in theory.
This is just me, personally, but I'd rather these missions be removed and time allocated to a new exploration system than spending the copious amounts of time required to manually edit each and every single map to update it to the new system.
So making all new stuff will take less time than adapting old stuff to a hypothetical new system. Is it just me, or does that not make sense? The only changes that would really be needed to make them usable right now, would be to just remove the crafting material anomalies and make those materials drop as mission rewards. Imo, that would be much simpler than going through each and every map by hand and making the change over to the new anomaly.
Whatever happens, I think that those in charge are out of their minds for just nuking several thousand missions from a game that is already starved of end game content. Granted, the missions are of varying quality, but given that they were made by a *machine* they're not bad at all. What makes that really galling, is that most of them are actually better than a lot of what is in the foundry!
Here's an idea. Why not link the foundry with the exploration missions? Give foundry authors the ability to set an "exploration" flag on their mission so that it can be added to the rotation of missions available in the exploration clusters. That way, cryptic would be able to merge the foundry and exploration wrapper missions into one. That would give them the dil nerf they really want, as well as adding a bit more variety to the exploration.
I had not done many Cluster missions, but when I did them I found they refreshed my feeling of "this is Star Trek". They were also on my horizon as something to do more and more of as I eventually grew tired of the grind, which point I knew was coming soon (when I start iterating different ship and equipment combinations I know the end is eventually arriving, because what I am really doing is keeping things fresh by having another tactical riddle to solve). The clusters were a way to avoid realizing that STO was the same thing from the first episode on, repeated forever.
So I think a mistake is being made here. I am at the point on PvE where I only really want to play two of them, maybe three games--Cure, Khitomer, Vault--because each relies on intercepting something in a dynamic manner, with each team being different.
I also was planning on the Clusters for Diluthium. Putting it elsewhere is fine, but there are only so many times I can run "Azure Nebula" before developing an intense hate for it. That point was actually reached last week, so sticking it in canned PvEs that never ever deviate is simply unacceptable (I used to rate technical systems on whether they were acceptable for the end user of not), because the word "grind" means "grind" for a reason. Clusters had variety.
To me, this is a Windows 8 move--"we know how you should enjoy yourself, and will force you to". I am forced to try and figure out the financial ROI-enhancement reason behind this, and when I start getting on that track of cynicism, a certain rot builds into the relationship.
As a final note, I had planned to write in on a few things, so I might as well do them here: a.) t one thing I really really enjoyed and wanted more of was when, as a Klingon, I intercepted in Sector Space the Fed convoy as part of "Pi Canis" daily mission. There is a lot of potential in Sector Space that was missed for the Klingon War. b.) intercepting that convoy reiterated a problem about STO that Cryptic probably knows--at some point in time, you level out, and you are doing the same thing--and nothing you do matters. Meaning it is a pure tactical level game. You can defeat a thousand Klingon fleets at Starbase 24 with no blue losses--the victory means nothing, which is not how the real world operates. Front lines would change. I don't play in a fleet, am not sure I care to without knowing folks first, but STO needs a strategic component. The wins have to matter. Right now, they don't. c.) I don't play in a fleet. That may be the major source of grinding inspiration for a lot, but I need to be able to establish social connections before wasting time on something like that. Right now, it is too hard. d.) I'm readying my ships for an eventual "fleet" option--five ships under my command. You already have the AI, and the concept is done in ground games.
e.) Which brings up the next--fresh tactical problem can keep people coming back, as they figure it out. A fleet action needs to be more than a furball. You have escorts. In this game, are they actually escorting anything? Same thing with support ships. Are they actually supporting? Or all ships just actually doing the same thing to varying levels of success. In real world fleets, dreadnaughts outranged small ships. In real world aircraft missions, electronic warfare jamming aircraft do that jamming from a considerable distance behind the strike package. I understand a lot of players want to get in there and mix it up, but to me the max firing range of bigger ships (presumably with more power from bigger "warp cores" should be larger than smaller), and science ships, presumably with greater antenna arrays, should be able to both ID ships and use things like gravity well from at least 15 km. And the support one gives should be factored into success/first ratings. And for fleet actions, ideally you need escorts because otherwise your big ship(s) gets smothered--but the big ship properly supported does the blasting. Not sure how to work that concept into STO, but that that is how it is in the real world.
Well, I have to say it - I am seriously disappointed.
It wouldn't have given anything away if the announcement had said something along the lines of "we remain committed to exploration and diplomacy being a part of the game." It would have reassured me that something was going on, somewhere in the background of game development - that someone was working on, or at least thinking about, those aspects.
But there is nothing in the statement that gives me any confidence in that.
It reads, to me, as though the devs' attitude might be summarized thus:-
"STAR TREK ONLINE IS A GAME ABOUT GOING TO GRIND ZONES AND BLOWING AWAY ALIEN SCUM. IF YOU WANT EXPLORATION AND DIPLOMACY YOU WILL HAVE TO MAKE IT YOURSELVES. NYAH NYAH NYAH SUCKS BOO TO THE SPIRIT OF THE FRANCHISE."
Like I said, I am seriously disappointed, here. This is a lousy move, and so long as it is permitted me, I will say it's a lousy move.
The immortal works of Picard "Remember when we used to be explorers" With the removal of exploration means we are no seeking new life ane new civilization and boldy going nowhere. This game is no longer star trek and has become just a mediocre game. There is nothing in this game that actually makes me want to play the hpurs as I used to. And this will make this game even less playable for everyone who wants to play
I absolutely agree! This game just became Battlestar Galactica, Dyson Dinosaur edition. (And I never play Dyson.) Exploration is the core of true Star Trek! To jettison the fun exploration and keep the never-ending grinds, why bother to play? Especially when Foundry missions also get deleted, once we get interested. By the way, where the hell is the Foundry access port, now that they redesigned ESD? It used to be outside of the transporter room. Can't play it if I can't find the door! I'm a doctor, not a bloodhound!
Sorry, but what has this to do with what I posted?
Everything. All those anomalies? Leave them as they are. Just don't make the items you get be able to transformed into the new items needed for the new crafting.
That way people need to start all over. Brand new. From scratch. Which is the idea behind the new crafting anyways.
So you can get all the radiation samples you want. But they're not good for anything. Can't be vendored. Can't be used in the new crafting.
Now there's no need to change anything about the exploration cluster maps. At all.
This is just me, personally, but I'd rather these missions be removed and time allocated to a new exploration system than spending the copious amounts of time required to manually edit each and every single map to update it to the new system.
Just to reiterate ... They're not doing that. They're instead making the assets from some of this stuff available through the foundry and foundry nodes available. They're not allocating any time or resources to exploration. They're just removing it.
Well, I have to say it - I am seriously disappointed.
It wouldn't have given anything away if the announcement had said something along the lines of "we remain committed to exploration and diplomacy being a part of the game." It would have reassured me that something was going on, somewhere in the background of game development - that someone was working on, or at least thinking about, those aspects.
But there is nothing in the statement that gives me any confidence in that.
It reads, to me, as though the devs' attitude might be summarized thus:-
"STAR TREK ONLINE IS A GAME ABOUT GOING TO GRIND ZONES AND BLOWING AWAY ALIEN SCUM. IF YOU WANT EXPLORATION AND DIPLOMACY YOU WILL HAVE TO MAKE IT YOURSELVES. NYAH NYAH NYAH SUCKS BOO TO THE SPIRIT OF THE FRANCHISE."
Like I said, I am seriously disappointed, here. This is a lousy move, and so long as it is permitted me, I will say it's a lousy move.
I love how Smirk pointed at this devblog to answer all our concerns regarding explorations. Yes, it answered them, basically saying "It's gone. Deal with it. Go grinding."
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I love how Smirk pointed at this devblog to answer all our concerns regarding explorations. Yes, it answered them, basically saying "It's gone. Deal with it. Go grinding."
I love how Smirk pointed at this devblog to answer all our concerns regarding explorations. Yes, it answered them, basically saying "It's gone. Deal with it. Go grinding."
Hey, let's give Smirk some credit.
1- No typos this time.
2- Links that worked and went to the right game.
3- Using the forums instead of ignoring them and doing it all through twitter.
Smirk's almost 1/4 of the way up to speed on being able to communicate through multiple platforms!
Well, I have to say it - I am seriously disappointed.
It wouldn't have given anything away if the announcement had said something along the lines of "we remain committed to exploration and diplomacy being a part of the game." It would have reassured me that something was going on, somewhere in the background of game development - that someone was working on, or at least thinking about, those aspects.
But there is nothing in the statement that gives me any confidence in that.
It reads, to me, as though the devs' attitude might be summarized thus:-
"STAR TREK ONLINE IS A GAME ABOUT GOING TO GRIND ZONES AND BLOWING AWAY ALIEN SCUM. IF YOU WANT EXPLORATION AND DIPLOMACY YOU WILL HAVE TO MAKE IT YOURSELVES. NYAH NYAH NYAH SUCKS BOO TO THE SPIRIT OF THE FRANCHISE."
Like I said, I am seriously disappointed, here. This is a lousy move, and so long as it is permitted me, I will say it's a lousy move.
lol, ikr? Hell, I'm not calling this "NGE of STO". I'm just calling it what it is, a "content massacre". It's not just the missions, but there's a ton of accos and titles that will be inaccessible because of this.
You know, if they wanted to bring it in line with grinding etc, why didn't they just make it and the foundry into a faction specific "Exploration rep" or something? use each one to buff the factions specific stuff, giving buffs to those who use faction boats, or using faction damage types?
Another reason why the removed star clusters is the easy way to collect data samples. Cryptic is desperate to get people in PvE queues, if you haven't notice since the removed the daily bonus marks hour from the game the queues are almost dead apart from the easiest grind missions. By giving different crafting mats for ground, space and enemy they hope to repopulate these dead queues. PvE queues are going the way of PvP and Cryptic can't sell STO as an mmo if there is no team play. Don't really see it working well, and I'd guess they will have to change it in a few months if no one is will to pay. Knowing Cryptic they will just want to stick it's head in the sand and think there is nothing seriously wrong with the game until PWE pulls the plug on STO.
Another reason why the removed star clusters is the easy way to collect data samples. Cryptic is desperate to get people in PvE queues, if you haven't notice since the removed the daily bonus marks hour from the game the queues are almost dead apart from the easiest grind missions. By giving different crafting mats for ground, space and enemy they hope to repopulate these dead queues. PvE queues are going the way of PvP and Cryptic can't sell STO as an mmo if there is no team play. Don't really see it working well, and I'd guess they will have to change it in a few months if no one is will to pay. Knowing Cryptic they will just want to stick it's head in the sand and think there is nothing seriously wrong with the game until PWE pulls the plug on STO.
Oh god yes, which is why I suggested simply removing the crafting mats from the exploration missions and clusters and adding limited drops as rewards for completing the missions, as well as adding them in greater numbers to the game as a whole.
The main issue with most of the pve queues though, is that there is very little reason for people to do them. The game has become so rep grind focused that people want to get as many marks as possible as quickly as possible. That and the change to omega rep from the old system, which didn't help matters at all.
Another reason why the removed star clusters is the easy way to collect data samples. Cryptic is desperate to get people in PvE queues, if you haven't notice since the removed the daily bonus marks hour from the game the queues are almost dead apart from the easiest grind missions. By giving different crafting mats for ground, space and enemy they hope to repopulate these dead queues. PvE queues are going the way of PvP and Cryptic can't sell STO as an mmo if there is no team play. Don't really see it working well, and I'd guess they will have to change it in a few months if no one is will to pay. Knowing Cryptic they will just want to stick it's head in the sand and think there is nothing seriously wrong with the game until PWE pulls the plug on STO.
They can sell it as an MMO kind of because a great deal of the playerbase like to play solo.
The point of this thread remains. They are removing a feature of the game and resorting to the foundry to provide an alternative.
This to me is unacceptable. Especially when it is an aspect that is key to the whole ethos of STO.
Cryptic you need to be making a new alternative ASAP. If your plan is for the foundry TRIBBLE to permanently replace the exploration side of STO, then i really think you are walking a dangerous path. I see no mention of there being plans for a new exploration system in that dev blog.
Player content SHOULD NEVER be considered as an alternative for key features. That's what people pay you for.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
The best way to get people into the PvE queues is to have stuff in them that people are interested in doing....
Mostly, people aren't interested in endlessly repeating the same stuff... which is why the quicker missions get full on a regular basis, while the rest languish. If you have to grind, you want to do a quick grind and get it over with.
This is where a semi-random mission generator would actually be a bloomin' good idea - something that serves up some approximation of novel content. The fact that it would also actually tie into what some of us sign up for a Star Trek game to do would be an added bonus.
A revamped exploration system, therefore, would be a good move in every imaginable way. Well, except someone at Cryptic would have to make one, I suppose - but that's the sort of thing they're paid for.
It's all very well saying "Foundry missions", but - while I support the Foundry, as an idea - it's not an adequate substitute for real development. The number of Foundry missions that achieve any sort of level of quality is very, very small - Sturgeon's Law applies to the Foundry in full, believe me. And there is precious little incentive on offer for a player to develop a Foundry mission - Foundry mission writers are a tiny, tiny minority of players. So, reliance on the Foundry just means we get a small pool of - mostly - significantly lower-quality content than the existing exploration missions.
I'd love to make Foundry exploration missions. Unfortunately, nobody will be able to find them with the terrible UI that only shows 50 or 100 missions. So, thanks for the doors. Maybe if I spam the forums with a sig banner, I'll get 3 plays.
I'd love to make Foundry exploration missions. Unfortunately, nobody will be able to find them with the terrible UI that only shows 50 or 100 missions. So, thanks for the doors. Maybe if I spam the forums with a sig banner, I'll get 3 plays.
no disrespect intended to you or any of the serious Foundry writers... but you get what you pay for, in this world. And most Foundry content is of the quality you'd expect from unskilled labour working for nothing.
Exploration = Star Trek. No Exploration = minor league war game, with dinosaurs.
So true and
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Another reason why the removed star clusters is the easy way to collect data samples.
I don't believe that for one second. Why not? Because you can easily get them from running story missions. You don't even have to complete the mission....
I'd love to make Foundry exploration missions. Unfortunately, nobody will be able to find them with the terrible UI that only shows 50 or 100 missions. So, thanks for the doors. Maybe if I spam the forums with a sig banner, I'll get 3 plays.
I think it'd actually give the foundry a purpose, to put missions in that can be flagged as "exploration" so that they will come up in the exploration clusters, adding a bit of variety and getting the foundry authors some exposure. Hell, I can't even think of any reason why it hasn't been done already.
I don't believe that for one second. Why not? Because you can easily get them from running story missions. You don't even have to complete the mission....
More fool you. The clusters themselves (not the missions, just the clusters which form the 'lobby') contained far more anomalies than any mission. You could farm them in the cluster itself far more efficiently than you could in any pve mission.
Yes, you could get them from the missions themselves as well as story missions, but the clusters let you get them far more efficiently.
I like the idea of Foundry missions replacing the existing "exploration" content. For one, exploration as it exists today is very weak. The move, if it works, will force people to create more content thus providing more missions and much more true exploration with a variety no randomly generated game mechanic could provide. The Foundry solution provides endless missions.
But people need to make more Foundry content. I've read some ideas of StarbaseUGC planning a community exploration zone using the Foundry, those are the types of innovative ideas that will make the current exploration system easily forgotten, you never know what you're getting into.
One caveat, and I've only read a post so not sure if it's true, but if Cryptic intends not to continue adding functionality and features to the Foundry then that may cause a problem.
Foundry? Where's that? Last I knew, the doorway was just outside of the transporter room on the old ESD. Now it's ... nowhere in the forums that I've searched.
I enjoy First Contact missions, even though I have only been allowed to play the introduction one. Due to glitches, I have never been able to play another. I feel that a new version of these are in order. Most mission only have one-way "Cow-boy" diplomacy, not letting me use my enjoyment of use tact, argument, and truth. Please add a substitute for this. Thank you,
Sorry, but what has this to do with what I posted? The places on the map where you pick up the old crafting materials will have to be replaced. So the devs will have to go in and spend however long it takes for just one map to remove the old crafting material nodes so that the old materials no longer drop and replace them with nodes for the new crafting materials. Then you have to test and edit to make sure that all nodes are accessible.
they already did this with Story missions. It's AWESOME!!! You can SEE what mat you'll get before you interact with the node. For example, you might be flying through an asteroid belt and see a green cloud of Hexaflourine gas. If you interact with it the particle scan mini-game comes up and depending on completion, you get as much as 4 Hexaflourine for it. This is just an example though, each material has it's own look for it's node point. Magnesite looks like a bunch of rocks, the other gases have their own colors.
I like the idea of Foundry missions replacing the existing "exploration" content. For one, exploration as it exists today is very weak. The move, if it works, will force people to create more content thus providing more missions and much more true exploration with a variety no randomly generated game mechanic could provide. The Foundry solution provides endless missions.
Unfortunately, the exploration missions (machine generated) are on par with a lot of the ones made in the foundry. Besides, removing 3700 missions from a game as content starved as STO is insane. There is no other word for it.
It would suit everyone much better if the exploration was fixed up and given an injection of foundry stuff for variety, rather than just deleted whole sale and people told to "make do with the foundry. Deal with it".
It is simply laziness to just delete the whole shebang and pass the buck on to the foundry authors. The two should work together, they should complement each other. So far that hasn't happened and with this move it moves ever further away from actually happening.
But people need to make more Foundry content. I've read some ideas of StarbaseUGC planning a community exploration zone using the Foundry, those are the types of innovative ideas that will make the current exploration system easily forgotten, you never know what you're getting into.
One caveat, and I've only read a post so not sure if it's true, but if Cryptic intends not to continue adding functionality and features to the Foundry then that may cause a problem.
Ideas are great, but implementing them can be a nightmare.
I enjoy First Contact missions, even though I have only been allowed to play the introduction one. Due to glitches, I have never been able to play another. I feel that a new version of these are in order. Most mission only have one-way "Cow-boy" diplomacy, not letting me use my enjoyment of use tact, argument, and truth. Please add a substitute for this. Thank you,
~Keedoul~~
That stuff has been broken for...18 months? Even then, it was not worth doing at the time. A shame really.
What does it say about cryptic and pwe when instead of fixing something, it is just left for 18 months before they simply go "bleh, DELETED. Deal with it.".
.... will force people to create more content thus providing more missions and much more true exploration with a variety no randomly generated game mechanic could provide....
Forcing the player base to do the devs' jobs for them is not, in my humble opinion, a very good idea.
More fool you. The clusters themselves (not the missions, just the clusters which form the 'lobby') contained far more anomalies than any mission. You could farm them in the cluster itself far more efficiently than you could in any pve mission.
Yes, you could get them from the missions themselves as well as story missions, but the clusters let you get them far more efficiently.
Is it true that it was somewhat faster? Yes.
Is "somewhat faster" the actual reason for removal? unlikely. Besides.... they would have only given out common or uncommon mats. those will be in plentiful supply anyways. It's the blue and purple rarity mats that will be hard to come by.
Is "somewhat faster" the actual reason for removal? unlikely. Besides.... they would have only given out common or uncommon mats. those will be in plentiful supply anyways. It's the blue and purple rarity mats that will be hard to come by.
and those blue & purple mats would probably be more likely to drop the more scan minigames you do, no? Having a number of small areas literally filled with those scan minigames would make getting them far easier for those with the time to spare.
Comments
It would also be easy enough to remove the scan nodes from the clusters themselves, removing a farming opportunity, which seems to be what cryptic really wants from this removal *cough*content massacre.
Again, if it was procedurally generated then logic holds that it should be possible to write a script that simply removes the anomaly nodes from the missions. The crafting mats could then drop from the mission rewards. Simple enough in theory.
So making all new stuff will take less time than adapting old stuff to a hypothetical new system. Is it just me, or does that not make sense? The only changes that would really be needed to make them usable right now, would be to just remove the crafting material anomalies and make those materials drop as mission rewards. Imo, that would be much simpler than going through each and every map by hand and making the change over to the new anomaly.
Whatever happens, I think that those in charge are out of their minds for just nuking several thousand missions from a game that is already starved of end game content. Granted, the missions are of varying quality, but given that they were made by a *machine* they're not bad at all. What makes that really galling, is that most of them are actually better than a lot of what is in the foundry!
Here's an idea. Why not link the foundry with the exploration missions? Give foundry authors the ability to set an "exploration" flag on their mission so that it can be added to the rotation of missions available in the exploration clusters. That way, cryptic would be able to merge the foundry and exploration wrapper missions into one. That would give them the dil nerf they really want, as well as adding a bit more variety to the exploration.
So I think a mistake is being made here. I am at the point on PvE where I only really want to play two of them, maybe three games--Cure, Khitomer, Vault--because each relies on intercepting something in a dynamic manner, with each team being different.
I also was planning on the Clusters for Diluthium. Putting it elsewhere is fine, but there are only so many times I can run "Azure Nebula" before developing an intense hate for it. That point was actually reached last week, so sticking it in canned PvEs that never ever deviate is simply unacceptable (I used to rate technical systems on whether they were acceptable for the end user of not), because the word "grind" means "grind" for a reason. Clusters had variety.
To me, this is a Windows 8 move--"we know how you should enjoy yourself, and will force you to". I am forced to try and figure out the financial ROI-enhancement reason behind this, and when I start getting on that track of cynicism, a certain rot builds into the relationship.
As a final note, I had planned to write in on a few things, so I might as well do them here: a.) t one thing I really really enjoyed and wanted more of was when, as a Klingon, I intercepted in Sector Space the Fed convoy as part of "Pi Canis" daily mission. There is a lot of potential in Sector Space that was missed for the Klingon War. b.) intercepting that convoy reiterated a problem about STO that Cryptic probably knows--at some point in time, you level out, and you are doing the same thing--and nothing you do matters. Meaning it is a pure tactical level game. You can defeat a thousand Klingon fleets at Starbase 24 with no blue losses--the victory means nothing, which is not how the real world operates. Front lines would change. I don't play in a fleet, am not sure I care to without knowing folks first, but STO needs a strategic component. The wins have to matter. Right now, they don't. c.) I don't play in a fleet. That may be the major source of grinding inspiration for a lot, but I need to be able to establish social connections before wasting time on something like that. Right now, it is too hard. d.) I'm readying my ships for an eventual "fleet" option--five ships under my command. You already have the AI, and the concept is done in ground games.
e.) Which brings up the next--fresh tactical problem can keep people coming back, as they figure it out. A fleet action needs to be more than a furball. You have escorts. In this game, are they actually escorting anything? Same thing with support ships. Are they actually supporting? Or all ships just actually doing the same thing to varying levels of success. In real world fleets, dreadnaughts outranged small ships. In real world aircraft missions, electronic warfare jamming aircraft do that jamming from a considerable distance behind the strike package. I understand a lot of players want to get in there and mix it up, but to me the max firing range of bigger ships (presumably with more power from bigger "warp cores" should be larger than smaller), and science ships, presumably with greater antenna arrays, should be able to both ID ships and use things like gravity well from at least 15 km. And the support one gives should be factored into success/first ratings. And for fleet actions, ideally you need escorts because otherwise your big ship(s) gets smothered--but the big ship properly supported does the blasting. Not sure how to work that concept into STO, but that that is how it is in the real world.
Just some random thoughts.
It wouldn't have given anything away if the announcement had said something along the lines of "we remain committed to exploration and diplomacy being a part of the game." It would have reassured me that something was going on, somewhere in the background of game development - that someone was working on, or at least thinking about, those aspects.
But there is nothing in the statement that gives me any confidence in that.
It reads, to me, as though the devs' attitude might be summarized thus:-
"STAR TREK ONLINE IS A GAME ABOUT GOING TO GRIND ZONES AND BLOWING AWAY ALIEN SCUM. IF YOU WANT EXPLORATION AND DIPLOMACY YOU WILL HAVE TO MAKE IT YOURSELVES. NYAH NYAH NYAH SUCKS BOO TO THE SPIRIT OF THE FRANCHISE."
Like I said, I am seriously disappointed, here. This is a lousy move, and so long as it is permitted me, I will say it's a lousy move.
I absolutely agree! This game just became Battlestar Galactica, Dyson Dinosaur edition. (And I never play Dyson.) Exploration is the core of true Star Trek! To jettison the fun exploration and keep the never-ending grinds, why bother to play? Especially when Foundry missions also get deleted, once we get interested. By the way, where the hell is the Foundry access port, now that they redesigned ESD? It used to be outside of the transporter room. Can't play it if I can't find the door! I'm a doctor, not a bloodhound!
Everything. All those anomalies? Leave them as they are. Just don't make the items you get be able to transformed into the new items needed for the new crafting.
That way people need to start all over. Brand new. From scratch. Which is the idea behind the new crafting anyways.
So you can get all the radiation samples you want. But they're not good for anything. Can't be vendored. Can't be used in the new crafting.
Now there's no need to change anything about the exploration cluster maps. At all.
Just to reiterate ... They're not doing that. They're instead making the assets from some of this stuff available through the foundry and foundry nodes available. They're not allocating any time or resources to exploration. They're just removing it.
I love how Smirk pointed at this devblog to answer all our concerns regarding explorations. Yes, it answered them, basically saying "It's gone. Deal with it. Go grinding."
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Yep. The PWE version of "helpful."
Hey, let's give Smirk some credit.
1- No typos this time.
2- Links that worked and went to the right game.
3- Using the forums instead of ignoring them and doing it all through twitter.
Smirk's almost 1/4 of the way up to speed on being able to communicate through multiple platforms!
Progress!
lol, ikr? Hell, I'm not calling this "NGE of STO". I'm just calling it what it is, a "content massacre". It's not just the missions, but there's a ton of accos and titles that will be inaccessible because of this.
You know, if they wanted to bring it in line with grinding etc, why didn't they just make it and the foundry into a faction specific "Exploration rep" or something? use each one to buff the factions specific stuff, giving buffs to those who use faction boats, or using faction damage types?
Oh god yes, which is why I suggested simply removing the crafting mats from the exploration missions and clusters and adding limited drops as rewards for completing the missions, as well as adding them in greater numbers to the game as a whole.
The main issue with most of the pve queues though, is that there is very little reason for people to do them. The game has become so rep grind focused that people want to get as many marks as possible as quickly as possible. That and the change to omega rep from the old system, which didn't help matters at all.
They can sell it as an MMO kind of because a great deal of the playerbase like to play solo.
The point of this thread remains. They are removing a feature of the game and resorting to the foundry to provide an alternative.
This to me is unacceptable. Especially when it is an aspect that is key to the whole ethos of STO.
Cryptic you need to be making a new alternative ASAP. If your plan is for the foundry TRIBBLE to permanently replace the exploration side of STO, then i really think you are walking a dangerous path. I see no mention of there being plans for a new exploration system in that dev blog.
Player content SHOULD NEVER be considered as an alternative for key features. That's what people pay you for.
Mostly, people aren't interested in endlessly repeating the same stuff... which is why the quicker missions get full on a regular basis, while the rest languish. If you have to grind, you want to do a quick grind and get it over with.
This is where a semi-random mission generator would actually be a bloomin' good idea - something that serves up some approximation of novel content. The fact that it would also actually tie into what some of us sign up for a Star Trek game to do would be an added bonus.
A revamped exploration system, therefore, would be a good move in every imaginable way. Well, except someone at Cryptic would have to make one, I suppose - but that's the sort of thing they're paid for.
It's all very well saying "Foundry missions", but - while I support the Foundry, as an idea - it's not an adequate substitute for real development. The number of Foundry missions that achieve any sort of level of quality is very, very small - Sturgeon's Law applies to the Foundry in full, believe me. And there is precious little incentive on offer for a player to develop a Foundry mission - Foundry mission writers are a tiny, tiny minority of players. So, reliance on the Foundry just means we get a small pool of - mostly - significantly lower-quality content than the existing exploration missions.
In short: lousy idea.
My character Tsin'xing
I think it'd actually give the foundry a purpose, to put missions in that can be flagged as "exploration" so that they will come up in the exploration clusters, adding a bit of variety and getting the foundry authors some exposure. Hell, I can't even think of any reason why it hasn't been done already.
More fool you. The clusters themselves (not the missions, just the clusters which form the 'lobby') contained far more anomalies than any mission. You could farm them in the cluster itself far more efficiently than you could in any pve mission.
Yes, you could get them from the missions themselves as well as story missions, but the clusters let you get them far more efficiently.
I like the idea of Foundry missions replacing the existing "exploration" content. For one, exploration as it exists today is very weak. The move, if it works, will force people to create more content thus providing more missions and much more true exploration with a variety no randomly generated game mechanic could provide. The Foundry solution provides endless missions.
But people need to make more Foundry content. I've read some ideas of StarbaseUGC planning a community exploration zone using the Foundry, those are the types of innovative ideas that will make the current exploration system easily forgotten, you never know what you're getting into.
One caveat, and I've only read a post so not sure if it's true, but if Cryptic intends not to continue adding functionality and features to the Foundry then that may cause a problem.
~Keedoul~~
My character Tsin'xing
Unfortunately, the exploration missions (machine generated) are on par with a lot of the ones made in the foundry. Besides, removing 3700 missions from a game as content starved as STO is insane. There is no other word for it.
It would suit everyone much better if the exploration was fixed up and given an injection of foundry stuff for variety, rather than just deleted whole sale and people told to "make do with the foundry. Deal with it".
It is simply laziness to just delete the whole shebang and pass the buck on to the foundry authors. The two should work together, they should complement each other. So far that hasn't happened and with this move it moves ever further away from actually happening.
Ideas are great, but implementing them can be a nightmare.
That stuff has been broken for...18 months? Even then, it was not worth doing at the time. A shame really.
What does it say about cryptic and pwe when instead of fixing something, it is just left for 18 months before they simply go "bleh, DELETED. Deal with it.".
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MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Is "somewhat faster" the actual reason for removal? unlikely. Besides.... they would have only given out common or uncommon mats. those will be in plentiful supply anyways. It's the blue and purple rarity mats that will be hard to come by.
My character Tsin'xing
and those blue & purple mats would probably be more likely to drop the more scan minigames you do, no? Having a number of small areas literally filled with those scan minigames would make getting them far easier for those with the time to spare.
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EDIT
THIS. IS. SPAR.TA. (post 300)
Indeed.
/10chars.