Granted, there was sarcasm there, but does it really sound to you like something that could not happen, if they took your advice of adding a paint job to a system of randomly generated junk missions?
Because, oh I don't know, my proposed 'paint job' (as you call it, a total misnomer I might add) would actually get you foundry types some of the "exposure" you claim to want?
Yes, they are randomly generated junk missions. But thing is, they happen to end up being better than most of your beloved foundry. They are fillers, they are placeholders. They should be removed only when there is something to replace them with.
Also, an exploration revamp and specific proposals have been made time and time and time again.
Perhaps, but how were they made? What went wrong? Who were they sent to? Who discussed them and how long were they discussed? How detailed were they?
Missions made and vetted by a self-selected clique of players? Yes, there is no conceivable way anything could possibly go wrong with that idea.
This. It also happens that many of the exploration missions aren't that buggy. Granted, some did suffer from buildings with parts that were floating, allowing NPCs to go inside and shoot out while remaining totally immune to your replies unless you ran in after them. But those were few and far between.
This game badly.... badly... needs its content reworked.
Yes, but since when does "reworking" mean "DELETEDELETEDELETE!"?
The needs of the many out weigh the few.
What needs are you referring to? How does this benefit us? The only benefit I see is cryptic making a grind even more of a grind, as well as removing something that was a distraction from the grind.
I believe that removing the exploration clusters is a mistake. I do like that they have been made "system points" on the sector block map, like the Arucanis Arm currently is on holodeck. Not being able to enter them and explore, I believe, is a tragedy.
Most of us have read the now infamous "new players get lost" excuse for removing the clusters. My personal hunch for the actual removal of the clusters is it's an effort to reduce the availability of crafting materials. What I'd like to know is this; instead of deleting the clusters and the missions they contain, why not just remove the crafting materials and leave the exploration?
I understand the exploration missions could get a bit screwy at times. The most common examples being:
- Borg looking for their dynasty
- Plants displaying as Greek columns
- Carnivorous plants that dont actually try to eat you
For me, those little issues actually became kind of charming, in a campy sort of way. Why not adjust the Genesis engine that makes these missions? Have it not use the Borg. Make a plant an actual plant. Everything else is fine. A lot of the planets generated were pretty cool to go walk around and...wait for it...explore. Yes, I go into these clusters and run these missions. Do I do it every day? No, but I do pop in a couple times a week just for a change of pace.
Replacing exploration with the foundry, I believe, is a mistake. The foundry menu is a disaster for searching available missions. If it were to be a randomly generated mission grab, then there needs to be limiting criteria. This prevents players, lost or not, from ending up in a part 3 of someones series, or a broken mission, or someone's 3 hour ego trip. Full disclosure here, I myself have recently started playing around in the foundry and have made a mission. Speaking as a foundry author myself, admittedly a newbe one, having foundry replace exploration is a mistake.
If someone with influence at Cryptic sees this, I ask that exploration removal be reconsidered. Move the clusters to system points and rip out the crafting materials, but please leave the actual exploration missions. I believe this would be a win-win for players who enjoy exploring, and Cryptic.
Thank you.
Thank you for the T6 Galaxy Class. - I support Tovan Khev. - Please bring back the exploration missions.
Besides, I thought the clusters were being removed because of quality issues. You guys think leaving it to Foundry authors is going to do anything to fix that? Or do you just not care since Foundry missions can't be used to farm materials?
LOL no. Foundry is full of bad fan fiction. I have played a lot of the high rated stories and found them all terribly wanting.
No thanks to any system that forces me to interact in any way with foundry dreck.
♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
Missions made and vetted by a self-selected clique of players? Yes, there is no conceivable way anything could possibly go wrong with that idea.
I am saying that, as you or somebody else pointed out, such a system would need some oversight and vetting. It's unrealistic to expect dev time for that, even when it's a bunch of volunteers making content to replace their own. Is it elitist? Sure. Would it be competent? I think so.
I'm saying that's about the only way it would happen, b/c we can't expect devs to hand pick foundry missions. It's hard enough getting a spotlight on a regular basis, given downtime and other priorities, etc.
I believe that removing the exploration clusters is a mistake. I do like that they have been made "system points" on the sector block map, like the Arucanis Arm currently is on holodeck. Not being able to enter them and explore, I believe, is a tragedy.
Most of us have read the now infamous "new players get lost" excuse for removing the clusters. My personal hunch for the actual removal of the clusters is it's an effort to reduce the availability of crafting materials. What I'd like to know is this; instead of deleting the clusters and the missions they contain, why not just remove the crafting materials and leave the exploration?
I understand the exploration missions could get a bit screwy at times. The most common examples being:
- Borg looking for their dynasty
- Plants displaying as Greek columns
- Carnivorous plants that dont actually try to eat you
For me, those little issues actually became kind of charming, in a campy sort of way. Why not adjust the Genesis engine that makes these missions? Have it not use the Borg. Make a plant an actual plant. Everything else is fine. A lot of the planets generated were pretty cool to go walk around and...wait for it...explore. Yes, I go into these clusters and run these missions. Do I do it every day? No, but I do pop in a couple times a week just for a change of pace.
Replacing exploration with the foundry, I believe, is a mistake. The foundry menu is a disaster for searching available missions. If it were to be a randomly generated mission grab, then there needs to be limiting criteria. This prevents players, lost or not, from ending up in a part 3 of someones series, or a broken mission, or someone's 3 hour ego trip. Full disclosure here, I myself have recently started playing around in the foundry and have made a mission. Speaking as a foundry author myself, admittedly a newbe one, having foundry replace exploration is a mistake.
If someone with influence at Cryptic sees this, I ask that exploration removal be reconsidered. Move the clusters to system points and rip out the crafting materials, but please leave the actual exploration missions. I believe this would be a win-win for players who enjoy exploring, and Cryptic.
Thank you.
This is pretty much what I've been saying all along, though I advocate integrating select foundry missions into the exploration cluster mission rotation to add a bit of variety as well as a possible faction specific "exploration" rep to add rewards and an incentive to explore.
That's why people just haven't used the exploration system, there was never any incentive.
In my humble opinion, "star clusters" which have billions of stars in them anyways should have been in sector space a long time ago. Not only does it allow foundry authors to better perpetuate the illusion of "exploring", but seems a little more realistic than having a few solar systems scattered throughout sector space. In effect, by adding items which represent billions of starts versus one star system, space just got a lot bigger. So in that respect, I welcome this change.
However, a good exploration system does need to be developed and implemented. A complete revamp of the "enemy contact" system would be a welcome change as well.
Foundry missions: "Salvaged" and "Preemption (Federation)" brought to you by the former "Tom_Riker01".
"An artist's growth depends upon accurate feedback." ~Data
A team of 12 people at Starbase UGC could work together to make lots of short exploration missions that are fun and not buggy. We could vet the stuff for Cryptic. But something like that type of system requires dev time and Foundry on a schedule.
Missions made and vetted by a self-selected clique of players? Yes, there is no conceivable way anything could possibly go wrong with that idea.
*cough*
"Star Wars" modding team 'Team Gizka' part two. rofl...
I can only imagine the egotistical bull that would come from an elite foundry team.
I like things as they are now. No egos. Everything is peaceful. Everyone is happy.
I am saying that, as you or somebody else pointed out, such a system would need some oversight and vetting. It's unrealistic to expect dev time for that, even when it's a bunch of volunteers making content to replace their own. Is it elitist? Sure. Would it be competent? I think so.
I'm saying that's about the only way it would happen, b/c we can't expect devs to hand pick foundry missions. It's hard enough getting a spotlight on a regular basis, given downtime and other priorities, etc.
You have a point. A team of volunteers (vetted by the devs or community managers) would look at any missions that get flagged as "exploration candidates" by their authors and if they pass muster they are added into the rotation asap.
I think her problem was with the idea of the vetters simply being the "elite" foundry authors etc. a kind of self appointed clique if you will.
To those insisting the Exploration Clusters are Content, do you need help getting down off the tall horse? :rolleyes:
Ah the irony.....it burns!! :mad:
It is you who is on a high-horse, so high in fact that your head is in the clouds and you can't even see the irony of acusing people for being on a high-horse, while at the same time telling everyone what classifies for content and what you think everyone should do and play.
Newsflash: Just because you decided in your head what you consider as content, doesn't make it a Godsend fact. Oh and who were you again?
It is you who is on a high-horse, so high in fact that your head is in the clouds and you can't even see the irony of acusing people for being on a high-horse, while at the same time telling everyone what classifies for content and what you think everyone should do and play.
Newsflash: Just because you decided in your head what you consider as content, doesn't make it a Godsend fact. Oh and who were you again?
Well, it is in the game, it is playable...my guess is "IT'S CONTENT"
Perhaps, but how were they made? What went wrong? Who were they sent to? Who discussed them and how long were they discussed? How detailed were they?
There were lots of detailed threads, usually involving replacing the genesis content with real stories and fun, short foundry missions. Dan Stahl was reading and even commenting in some of those threads. Then, he stopped talking about it, before suddenly talking about "Gateway" as a possible way to revamp exploration. Then, well, talking mostly stopped.
I remember Dstahl once saying that there was even a dev brainstorming session about it, but that might not be true.
In the end, all of this is what it is. They are turning on some doors at locations where the filler used to be accessible. Nothing more, most likely, despite years of proposals and ideas, presented, debated, and communicated.
...Back when it was being introduced, there were in fact quite a few players who were concerned that the Foundry would end up giving the devs an easy way out when it came to developing content. They were quick to assure us that they would never rely on the Foundry authors to produce content for them in place of their own work.
So much for that.
To this day, I'm still bitter about the Foundry because of this. :rolleyes:
I admit it's a selfish hang-up, and probably not deserved, but being human, I reserve the right to be illogical. LOL
:P
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
This game badly.... badly... needs its content reworked.
Everyone needs to relax and accept that.
I know you liked that stuff.
Yes it might be gone forever.
The needs of the many out weigh the few.
If this thread anything to go by the needs of the many would be better met by keeping the exploration missions until proper long term replacement is ready.
There were lots of detailed threads, usually involving replacing the genesis content with real stories and fun, short foundry missions. Dan Stahl was reading and even commenting in some of those threads. Then, he stopped talking about it, before suddenly talking about "Gateway" as a possible way to revamp exploration. Then, well, talking mostly stopped.
I remember Dstahl once saying that there was even a dev brainstorming session about it, but that might not be true.
In the end, all of this is what it is. They are turning on some doors at locations where the filler used to be accessible. Nothing more, most likely, despite years of proposals and ideas, presented, debated, and communicated.
Well, we all know what Stahl was all about lol.
I wonder if old fashioned snail mail has been tried. Or even calling their offices, making an appointment (if possible) and actually talking to them. Old fashioned, I know. From my experience, this is the way one goes about getting something out of local politicians who tend to ignore phone calls and emails. It might work with cryptic. Who knows?
There is just so much potential in the exploration system and they are just throwing it away! It's infuriating to say the least.
To this day, I'm still bitter about the Foundry because of this. :rolleyes:
I admit it's a selfish hang-up, and probably not deserved, but being human, I reserve the right to be illogical. LOL
:P
:P
I don't see why the very best of the foundry couldn't be made official missions by cryptic tbh. Using the exploration clusters would be a good way of seeing to that, as well as getting the authors the exposure they need/deserve/want/crave.
I definitely felt a sense of exploration doing them.
Some maps you beamed into were in twilight and you could look up at the stars, some were experiencing actual weather, (rain), some left you at the seaside, some had gigantic alien mushroom thingies to climb.
It was cool, doing them with 5 of my bridge officers, it really felt like trek.
The above pretty much spells out my feelings on the subject .
As for these missions being "sub par" , one of the latest FE's had about what ... 2-3 optional paths that the game chose from ?
Well the Genesis engine had ground, space, aid, combat, scan options to choose from so ... By the numbers alone ... the Genesis engine's random options were superior in number then the options offered in Cryptic's latest "standard" .
So I'm sorry Cryptic ... but your logic to your actions is once again not only broken but self defeating .
On another note, today I could not find another instance to transfer to in Beta Ursa ... -- surely a good sign as far as played population is concerned .
I am saying that, as you or somebody else pointed out, such a system would need some oversight and vetting. It's unrealistic to expect dev time for that, even when it's a bunch of volunteers making content to replace their own. Is it elitist? Sure. Would it be competent? I think so.
I'm saying that's about the only way it would happen, b/c we can't expect devs to hand pick foundry missions. It's hard enough getting a spotlight on a regular basis, given downtime and other priorities, etc.
Look, I accept that you personally are well-intentioned, and I've done some of your Foundry stuff, so I know you're competent. But, at the end of the day, you are in that particular gang, and I'm not (and I'm never going to be), so I have a different point of view on the matter. Let's just say that I would not regard a note saying "This mission approved by StarbaseUGC" as an infallible seal of quality.
I'd also point out that, effectively, you're offering to do some of the devs' jobs for them, for free. It might gladden the heart of Cryptic's shareholders, but it evokes only unease in me.
PW is removing work from their own plate and passing the responsibility over to the players in the form of player created content but still want our money for the privilege of doing this?
Look, I accept that you personally are well-intentioned, and I've done some of your Foundry stuff, so I know you're competent. But, at the end of the day, you are in that particular gang, and I'm not (and I'm never going to be), so I have a different point of view on the matter. Let's just say that I would not regard a note saying "This mission approved by StarbaseUGC" as an infallible seal of quality.
I'd also point out that, effectively, you're offering to do some of the devs' jobs for them, for free. It might gladden the heart of Cryptic's shareholders, but it evokes only unease in me.
PW is removing work from their own plate and passing the responsibility over to the players in the form of player created content but still want our money for the privilege of doing this?
StarbaseUGC is a central hub for Foundry authors. You can find almost all Foundry podcasters there, along with every tutorial and other resource. Anyone who is a Foundry author or player can post on that blog, advertising their missions, reviewing missions, etc.
A team at the site got together and made the spotlighted "Purity" series.
Edit: I put that name out there, because it's an already established community that does group projects like this. I wouldn't mind if Cryptic just picked 10 spotlight authors, or forum regulars, or whatever, so long as it's a team that could vet content for them.
I wouldn't mind if Cryptic just picked 10 spotlight authors, or forum regulars, or whatever, so long as it's a team that could vet content for them.
And I would say to that - they have no business picking anyone to do anything for them except their actual employees, whom they pay.
Seriously. We are in a position here where Cryptic have said - pretty much in so many words - "we have a chunk of content here that we just don't want to support any more, so we're going to delete it, and we'll get our highly-motivated player base to pick up the slack for us."
And the only proper response - I feel - from the highly-motivated player base is a very loud "Not on your nelly, Cryptic!"
If we don't get any decent Foundry missions - if all that gets plugged in to the exploration stubs is random Foundry dross, the sort of thing that makes the Borg Third Dynasty look like genius by comparison - then Cryptic may be forced to review this incredibly wrong-headed decision they have made. I think that's what we should be asking for.
And I would say to that - they have no business picking anyone to do anything for them except their actual employees, whom they pay.
Seriously. We are in a position here where Cryptic have said - pretty much in so many words - "we have a chunk of content here that we just don't want to support any more, so we're going to delete it, and we'll get our highly-motivated player base to pick up the slack for us."
And the only proper response - I feel - from the highly-motivated player base is a very loud "Not on your nelly, Cryptic!"
If we don't get any decent Foundry missions - if all that gets plugged in to the exploration stubs is random Foundry dross, the sort of thing that makes the Borg Third Dynasty look like genius by comparison - then Cryptic may be forced to review this incredibly wrong-headed decision they have made. I think that's what we should be asking for.
I agree. The problem of Foundry 'gatekeepers' for the game (including Exploration Clusters) is a complete lack of accountability.
And accountability is something that Cryptic is sorely lacking when they can just pass the buck to someone else, distribute weasel words and vagueries and pander them as 'information', along with a gratuitous amount of silence.
I'm not opposed to StarbaseUGC (in fact I respect Foundry authors who put forth a lot of work into their projects), and have a few unpublished missions I continue to polish from time to time as a labor of love.
But I don't trust players (even good-intentioned ones) with some kind of gatekeeper role with what passes and what doesn't.
Considering my first mission was actually banned as a result of players flagging my mission as a violation of TOS, when it wasn't -- Cryptic was simply tired of unlocking it over and over again due to dumb players abusing their flagging priviledges and kept it banned out of sheer laziness or frustration of the playerbase who never read the Foundry ToS and flagged my missions out of what they imagined was in the ToS.
Yeah, no faith in the playerbase to police the Foundry. It needs to be the in the hands of a Cryptic employee who has the accountability of his or her actions publically known.
Put it in the hands of the players, and you have similar incidents to the Public Service channel guest blog getting pulled because the owner decided to make it private. You have the potential for players to sabotage it just for the lulz. You have the potential for a player to get angry at Cryptic for doing X or Y and flagging a bunch of missions as unplayable in a case of infantile rage.
Players aren't obligated to due diligence and to do their job correctly (or at all). This is why many podcasts don't provide transcripts to those of us with hearing difficulties. It's volunteer work. Nobody is twisting their arm to provide excellent service.
and those blue & purple mats would probably be more likely to drop the more scan minigames you do, no? Having a number of small areas literally filled with those scan minigames would make getting them far easier for those with the time to spare.
####
EDIT
THIS. IS. SPAR.TA. (post 300)
Actually... I don't think they drop AT ALL from these scans. I've never seen a single scan point that dropped blue or purple. And that's after running several missions and methodically hunting down every scan point.
Of course this raises the question of where to find the blue and purple stuff in game.
I agree. The problem of Foundry 'gatekeepers' for the game (including Exploration Clusters) is a complete lack of accountability.
And accountability is something that Cryptic is sorely lacking when they can just pass the buck to someone else, distribute weasel words and vagueries and pander them as 'information', along with a gratuitous amount of silence.
I'm not opposed to StarbaseUGC (in fact I respect Foundry authors who put forth a lot of work into their projects), and have a few unpublished missions I continue to polish from time to time as a labor of love.
But I don't trust players (even good-intentioned ones) with some kind of gatekeeper role with what passes and what doesn't.
Considering my first mission was actually banned as a result of players flagging my mission as a violation of TOS, when it wasn't -- Cryptic was simply tired of unlocking it over and over again due to dumb players abusing their flagging priviledges and kept it banned out of sheer laziness or frustration of the playerbase who never read the Foundry ToS and flagged my missions out of what they imagined was in the ToS.
Yeah, no faith in the playerbase to police the Foundry. It needs to be the in the hands of a Cryptic employee who has the accountability of his or her actions publically known.
Put it in the hands of the players, and you have similar incidents to the Public Service channel guest blog getting pulled because the owner decided to make it private. You have the potential for players to sabotage it just for the lulz. You have the potential for a player to get angry at Cryptic for doing X or Y and flagging a bunch of missions as unplayable in a case of infantile rage.
Players aren't obligated to due diligence and to do their job correctly (or at all). This is why many podcasts don't provide transcripts to those of us with hearing difficulties. It's volunteer work. Nobody is twisting their arm to provide excellent service.
A paycheck does, though.
But we both know that Cryptic won't do that. So, saying that a dev needs to be the gatekeeper is like asking for it not to happen at all. Look how many spotlights fed side we've had in the last 7 or 8 months: 2! Granted, there was a lot of downtime and bugs. And for genuine exploration, those clusters will need hundreds of missions. Even if Cryptic gave a dev 2 hours a week to play and pick a mission or 2, well, add the math up on that one. I don't think it's realistic.
And I'd also like to ask everyone to simply consider what an actual Cryptic exploration revamp would be. It would likely be resource gathering, a UI with buckets, and ways to explore strange new grinds. This alternative would have lots of unique missions, with unique experiences.
This alternative would have lots of unique missions, with unique experiences.
There is nothing stopping Foundry authors from writing missions right now. All I'm asking is that you don't cooperate with Cryptic in letting them slide out of their obligations to the game - that we keep the Foundry content as an adjunct to the main game, instead of a replacement for content Cryptic's not willing to provide.
And I will say this again (and again): exploration content, in some form, is a necessary part of the game. And it is Cryptic's job to provide this, not ours.
(There are games out there which have loads of user-generated content - the bizarre internal economy of Second Life springs to mind, for instance. But Second Life works because those content-creators are compensated for what they create. In fact, since Second Life's currency is exchangeable with real-world money, some people actually make a living at it. But there is no danger, I think, of Cryptic paying anyone at StarbaseUGC for their time and effort... maybe not with so much as a thank-you.)
Comments
Everyone needs to relax and accept that.
I know you liked that stuff.
Yes it might be gone forever.
The needs of the many out weigh the few.
Because, oh I don't know, my proposed 'paint job' (as you call it, a total misnomer I might add) would actually get you foundry types some of the "exposure" you claim to want?
Yes, they are randomly generated junk missions. But thing is, they happen to end up being better than most of your beloved foundry. They are fillers, they are placeholders. They should be removed only when there is something to replace them with.
Perhaps, but how were they made? What went wrong? Who were they sent to? Who discussed them and how long were they discussed? How detailed were they?
This. It also happens that many of the exploration missions aren't that buggy. Granted, some did suffer from buildings with parts that were floating, allowing NPCs to go inside and shoot out while remaining totally immune to your replies unless you ran in after them. But those were few and far between.
Yes, but since when does "reworking" mean "DELETEDELETEDELETE!"?
What needs are you referring to? How does this benefit us? The only benefit I see is cryptic making a grind even more of a grind, as well as removing something that was a distraction from the grind.
Most of us have read the now infamous "new players get lost" excuse for removing the clusters. My personal hunch for the actual removal of the clusters is it's an effort to reduce the availability of crafting materials. What I'd like to know is this; instead of deleting the clusters and the missions they contain, why not just remove the crafting materials and leave the exploration?
I understand the exploration missions could get a bit screwy at times. The most common examples being:
- Borg looking for their dynasty
- Plants displaying as Greek columns
- Carnivorous plants that dont actually try to eat you
For me, those little issues actually became kind of charming, in a campy sort of way. Why not adjust the Genesis engine that makes these missions? Have it not use the Borg. Make a plant an actual plant. Everything else is fine. A lot of the planets generated were pretty cool to go walk around and...wait for it...explore. Yes, I go into these clusters and run these missions. Do I do it every day? No, but I do pop in a couple times a week just for a change of pace.
Replacing exploration with the foundry, I believe, is a mistake. The foundry menu is a disaster for searching available missions. If it were to be a randomly generated mission grab, then there needs to be limiting criteria. This prevents players, lost or not, from ending up in a part 3 of someones series, or a broken mission, or someone's 3 hour ego trip. Full disclosure here, I myself have recently started playing around in the foundry and have made a mission. Speaking as a foundry author myself, admittedly a newbe one, having foundry replace exploration is a mistake.
If someone with influence at Cryptic sees this, I ask that exploration removal be reconsidered. Move the clusters to system points and rip out the crafting materials, but please leave the actual exploration missions. I believe this would be a win-win for players who enjoy exploring, and Cryptic.
Thank you.
LOL no. Foundry is full of bad fan fiction. I have played a lot of the high rated stories and found them all terribly wanting.
No thanks to any system that forces me to interact in any way with foundry dreck.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
I am saying that, as you or somebody else pointed out, such a system would need some oversight and vetting. It's unrealistic to expect dev time for that, even when it's a bunch of volunteers making content to replace their own. Is it elitist? Sure. Would it be competent? I think so.
I'm saying that's about the only way it would happen, b/c we can't expect devs to hand pick foundry missions. It's hard enough getting a spotlight on a regular basis, given downtime and other priorities, etc.
This is pretty much what I've been saying all along, though I advocate integrating select foundry missions into the exploration cluster mission rotation to add a bit of variety as well as a possible faction specific "exploration" rep to add rewards and an incentive to explore.
That's why people just haven't used the exploration system, there was never any incentive.
However, a good exploration system does need to be developed and implemented. A complete revamp of the "enemy contact" system would be a welcome change as well.
"An artist's growth depends upon accurate feedback." ~Data
"Star Wars" modding team 'Team Gizka' part two. rofl...
I can only imagine the egotistical bull that would come from an elite foundry team.
I like things as they are now. No egos. Everything is peaceful. Everyone is happy.
You have a point. A team of volunteers (vetted by the devs or community managers) would look at any missions that get flagged as "exploration candidates" by their authors and if they pass muster they are added into the rotation asap.
I think her problem was with the idea of the vetters simply being the "elite" foundry authors etc. a kind of self appointed clique if you will.
Ah the irony.....it burns!! :mad:
It is you who is on a high-horse, so high in fact that your head is in the clouds and you can't even see the irony of acusing people for being on a high-horse, while at the same time telling everyone what classifies for content and what you think everyone should do and play.
Newsflash: Just because you decided in your head what you consider as content, doesn't make it a Godsend fact. Oh and who were you again?
Well, it is in the game, it is playable...my guess is "IT'S CONTENT"
There were lots of detailed threads, usually involving replacing the genesis content with real stories and fun, short foundry missions. Dan Stahl was reading and even commenting in some of those threads. Then, he stopped talking about it, before suddenly talking about "Gateway" as a possible way to revamp exploration. Then, well, talking mostly stopped.
I remember Dstahl once saying that there was even a dev brainstorming session about it, but that might not be true.
In the end, all of this is what it is. They are turning on some doors at locations where the filler used to be accessible. Nothing more, most likely, despite years of proposals and ideas, presented, debated, and communicated.
I admit it's a selfish hang-up, and probably not deserved, but being human, I reserve the right to be illogical. LOL
:P
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
If this thread anything to go by the needs of the many would be better met by keeping the exploration missions until proper long term replacement is ready.
I wonder if old fashioned snail mail has been tried. Or even calling their offices, making an appointment (if possible) and actually talking to them. Old fashioned, I know. From my experience, this is the way one goes about getting something out of local politicians who tend to ignore phone calls and emails. It might work with cryptic. Who knows?
There is just so much potential in the exploration system and they are just throwing it away! It's infuriating to say the least.
:P
I don't see why the very best of the foundry couldn't be made official missions by cryptic tbh. Using the exploration clusters would be a good way of seeing to that, as well as getting the authors the exposure they need/deserve/want/crave.
The above pretty much spells out my feelings on the subject .
As for these missions being "sub par" , one of the latest FE's had about what ... 2-3 optional paths that the game chose from ?
Well the Genesis engine had ground, space, aid, combat, scan options to choose from so ... By the numbers alone ... the Genesis engine's random options were superior in number then the options offered in Cryptic's latest "standard" .
So I'm sorry Cryptic ... but your logic to your actions is once again not only broken but self defeating .
On another note, today I could not find another instance to transfer to in Beta Ursa ... -- surely a good sign as far as played population is concerned .
I'd also point out that, effectively, you're offering to do some of the devs' jobs for them, for free. It might gladden the heart of Cryptic's shareholders, but it evokes only unease in me.
PW is removing work from their own plate and passing the responsibility over to the players in the form of player created content but still want our money for the privilege of doing this?
Ya, that looks about right.
Who the heck is this "StarbaseUGC" anyway?
Thank you for that. One reason I enjoyed (you heard/read me) the daily Exploration missions was that I could earn Dil while playing a mission solo.
StarbaseUGC is a central hub for Foundry authors. You can find almost all Foundry podcasters there, along with every tutorial and other resource. Anyone who is a Foundry author or player can post on that blog, advertising their missions, reviewing missions, etc.
A team at the site got together and made the spotlighted "Purity" series.
Edit: I put that name out there, because it's an already established community that does group projects like this. I wouldn't mind if Cryptic just picked 10 spotlight authors, or forum regulars, or whatever, so long as it's a team that could vet content for them.
Seriously. We are in a position here where Cryptic have said - pretty much in so many words - "we have a chunk of content here that we just don't want to support any more, so we're going to delete it, and we'll get our highly-motivated player base to pick up the slack for us."
And the only proper response - I feel - from the highly-motivated player base is a very loud "Not on your nelly, Cryptic!"
If we don't get any decent Foundry missions - if all that gets plugged in to the exploration stubs is random Foundry dross, the sort of thing that makes the Borg Third Dynasty look like genius by comparison - then Cryptic may be forced to review this incredibly wrong-headed decision they have made. I think that's what we should be asking for.
I agree. The problem of Foundry 'gatekeepers' for the game (including Exploration Clusters) is a complete lack of accountability.
And accountability is something that Cryptic is sorely lacking when they can just pass the buck to someone else, distribute weasel words and vagueries and pander them as 'information', along with a gratuitous amount of silence.
I'm not opposed to StarbaseUGC (in fact I respect Foundry authors who put forth a lot of work into their projects), and have a few unpublished missions I continue to polish from time to time as a labor of love.
But I don't trust players (even good-intentioned ones) with some kind of gatekeeper role with what passes and what doesn't.
Considering my first mission was actually banned as a result of players flagging my mission as a violation of TOS, when it wasn't -- Cryptic was simply tired of unlocking it over and over again due to dumb players abusing their flagging priviledges and kept it banned out of sheer laziness or frustration of the playerbase who never read the Foundry ToS and flagged my missions out of what they imagined was in the ToS.
Yeah, no faith in the playerbase to police the Foundry. It needs to be the in the hands of a Cryptic employee who has the accountability of his or her actions publically known.
Put it in the hands of the players, and you have similar incidents to the Public Service channel guest blog getting pulled because the owner decided to make it private. You have the potential for players to sabotage it just for the lulz. You have the potential for a player to get angry at Cryptic for doing X or Y and flagging a bunch of missions as unplayable in a case of infantile rage.
Players aren't obligated to due diligence and to do their job correctly (or at all). This is why many podcasts don't provide transcripts to those of us with hearing difficulties. It's volunteer work. Nobody is twisting their arm to provide excellent service.
A paycheck does, though.
Of course this raises the question of where to find the blue and purple stuff in game.
My character Tsin'xing
But we both know that Cryptic won't do that. So, saying that a dev needs to be the gatekeeper is like asking for it not to happen at all. Look how many spotlights fed side we've had in the last 7 or 8 months: 2! Granted, there was a lot of downtime and bugs. And for genuine exploration, those clusters will need hundreds of missions. Even if Cryptic gave a dev 2 hours a week to play and pick a mission or 2, well, add the math up on that one. I don't think it's realistic.
And I'd also like to ask everyone to simply consider what an actual Cryptic exploration revamp would be. It would likely be resource gathering, a UI with buckets, and ways to explore strange new grinds. This alternative would have lots of unique missions, with unique experiences.
And I will say this again (and again): exploration content, in some form, is a necessary part of the game. And it is Cryptic's job to provide this, not ours.
(There are games out there which have loads of user-generated content - the bizarre internal economy of Second Life springs to mind, for instance. But Second Life works because those content-creators are compensated for what they create. In fact, since Second Life's currency is exchangeable with real-world money, some people actually make a living at it. But there is no danger, I think, of Cryptic paying anyone at StarbaseUGC for their time and effort... maybe not with so much as a thank-you.)