Unfortunately, the exploration missions (machine generated) are on par with a lot of the ones made in the foundry.
Check out my awesome first contact mission! It involves "exploring an unknown system," where a planet's inhabitants say, "Starfleet, where are the supplies you promised to bring us?" You can then explore a cave where a console is half-sticking out of a wall and describes itself as a "transporter pad." Scan 5/5 to discover that the starfleet research outpost in this "unknown system" was raided by Gorn, according to Starfleet records of this "unknown system." Sorry, but one of the things that you have to scan is misplaced inside of a large gas giant. I did that for flare.
Oh and I made sure that random anomalies are placed directly above you, so you have to fly in circles to discover whether you're heading for a mission objective or just trying to find some annoying anomaly.
This mission was truly inspired by the quality of Cryptic's exploration clusters. I've never felt more like an explorer.
Mission is named "Explore System TRD-47474747474747474747474747474747474747474747-474747474747."
Check out my awesome first contact mission! It involves "exploring an unknown system," where a planet's inhabitant's say, "Starfleet, where are the supplies you promised to bring us?" You can then explore a cave where a console is half-sticking out of a wall and describes itself as a "transporter pad." Scan 5/5 to discover that the starfleet research outpost in this "unknown system" was raided by Gorn, according to Starfleet records of this "unknown system."
This mission was truly inspired by the quality of Cryptic's exploration clusters. I've never felt more like an explorer.
You forgot your [/sarcasm] tags. :P
Hey, some of the missions are pretty good. But most of the ones I've played are awful. They actually make the ones in the exploration clusters, machine generated missions, look good.
But adding an exploration "flag" that a foundry author could set so that their mission would be in the 'deck' of exploration cluster missions would get that author their precious epeen swelling "plays" as well as giving the whole thing a bit more variety.
If they added in a faction specific rep system around the exploration missions with some of the foundry missions thrown in, I think it would work rather nicely, so long as the rewards were decent (faction specific stuff, like buffs for those who use faction ships and weapons etc).
Also, yes I get it that you're a foundry author. Yes, I get it that you are one of the better ones, but that doesn't mean going "foundry only" is what's best for the game. It would be better overall if both systems, both parties, worked together and not against each other.
Check out my awesome first contact mission! It involves "exploring an unknown system," where a planet's inhabitant's say, "Starfleet, where are the supplies you promised to bring us?" You can then explore a cave where a console is half-sticking out of a wall and describes itself as a "transporter pad." Scan 5/5 to discover that the starfleet research outpost in this "unknown system" was raided by Gorn, according to Starfleet records of this "unknown system." Sorry, but one of the things that you have to scan is misplaced inside of a large gas giant. I did that for flare.
This mission was truly inspired by the quality of Cryptic's exploration clusters. I've never felt more like an explorer.
Mission is named "Explore System TRD-47474747474747474747474747474747474747474747-474747474747."
*Slaps Kirksplat*
Aid the planet!!!! How can you making missions when there are planets out there that need aiding!!!!
Also, yes I get it that you're a foundry author. Yes, I get it that you are one of the better ones, but that doesn't mean going "foundry only" is what's best for the game. It would be better overall if both systems, both parties, worked together and not against each other.
We're lucky that they're giving us doors. It's not like it's part of some master plan to turn clusters into "foundry only." They gutted the stuff out of a plan for crafting and they threw us a bone. Maybe one day, they'll do something to help players find the stuff we create. Who knows?
Aid the planet!!!! How can you making missions when there are planets out there that need aiding!!!!
It's fortunate that those human colonists on a Y-class demon planet only need 15 stem cells, when they don't have industrial replicators. It's a tribute to the human spirit of survival, against the odds. They've even started a school.
We're lucky that they're giving us doors. It's not like it's part of some master plan to turn clusters into "foundry only." They gutted the stuff out of a plan for crafting and they threw us a bone. Maybe one day, they'll do something to help players find the stuff we create. Who knows?
They aren't just "gutting" it. They are nuking it from orbit and putting a foundry door where the stumps are. If that isn't a step towards "foundry only" then I don't know what is.
The only thing exploration clusters ever had to do with crafting was the fact that you could get a lot of crafting materials in a relatively short space of time.
Kirksplat, what do you think of my idea about having an "exploration" flag on foundry missions you want putting in to the pile for the clusters? It would for sure help with the issue you cited of not being able to find the stuff you create, so long as there was a compelling reason for exploration missions to be done, something like a faction specific rep or rewards system for exploration etc.
Perhaps at the end of a foundry mission that's come up in that exploration cluster, a box would pop up crediting the author and saying "try out these other missions from the same author" or "other highly rated missions"?
Kirksplat, what do you think of my idea about having an "exploration" flag on foundry missions you want putting in to the pile for the clusters? It would for sure help with the issue you cited of not being able to find the stuff you create, so long as there was a compelling reason for exploration missions to be done, something like a faction specific rep or rewards system for exploration etc.
Perhaps at the end of a foundry mission that's come up in that exploration cluster, a box would pop up crediting the author and saying "try out these other missions from the same author" or "other highly rated missions"?
We've been asking for something like this for 3 years. At least 2 years ago, Dstahl announced plans for an exploration revamp that centered on Foundry content. Nothing came of it.
TBH, I'm not really hopeful of a such an interesting UI revamp, when we can't convince Geko that a "next" button is useful for search results.
Apparently, he does not like Google's page 2, page 3, page 4, page 5, etc. Too many choices overwhelm the average internet user. They quit the internet, instead of spending $$$.
We've been asking for something like this for 3 years. At least 2 years ago, Dstahl announced plans for an exploration revamp that centered on Foundry content. Nothing came of it.
TBH, I'm not really hopeful of a such an interesting UI revamp, when we can't convince Geko that a "next" button is useful for search results.
Apparently, he does not like Google's page 2, page 3, page 4, page 5, etc. Too many choices overwhelm the average internet user. They quit the internet, instead of spending $$$.
Tell me about it man. Thing is, it would go quite a way towards the content drought. Hell, they could even monetize it by putting a "rep double XP boost" or some kind of short term rewards booster in the c store.
Perhaps they could tempt people into buying more lockbox keys etc through occasionally (i.e. very rarely) giving a free key or 20 lobi when exploring, saying something along the lines of "oh wow, you just found a lockbox key/small box of lobi floating in space!" or something?
The odd freebie never hurts, right?
####
EDIT
I wouldn't centre the exploration around the foundry, at least not at first. As the number of flagged foundry missions rise, I'd slowly but surely reduce the number of classic genesis missions, perhaps replacing some of them with properly made ones.
Apparently, he does not like Google's page 2, page 3, page 4, page 5, etc. Too many choices overwhelm the average internet user. They quit the internet, instead of spending $$$.
Nah ... they got lost in the internet ... :P
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Not sure if this has been said already, but what's gonna happen to those "first contact" trivia games (you know, the ones where you chat it up with a few NPCs, then answer the ambassador's three questions?)
Secondly, I echo the "loss" of the physical clusters where you can see a department head list that had missions on the separate 20 hour timer... They've helped every character that I have set up the clusters on to farm the purples from there. That is, unless they're gonna extend the department head functionality to the "hotspots" they're putting in the regular sectors (so that if you're in the DV hotspot, your department heads pull the DV cluster missions instead of the Sirius sector missions)
Address these two problems, and I might not be so upset at the loss of the physical clusters...
And then my semi-usual rant hits me. Once again, this can be easily interpreted to be another ham-fisted attempt to "force" players (this time crafters) into playing a "select subset" of PvE queues instead of, you know, playing the game. In light of the "boy, there's more PvE queues than players playing them" comment, it's looking that we're being herded so that everything for "endgame" is gonna be either battlezone or PvE queue...
Yep, park at battlezone of choice and queue up everything you want to do at endgame. No wonder there hasn't been a release of a sector-speed increasing engine since the Tal-Shiar cruiser, they're hiding the whole sector block issue by removing all need to be in sector blocks for endgame...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Not sure if this has been said already, but what's gonna happen to those "first contact" trivia games (you know, the ones where you chat it up with a few NPCs, then answer the ambassador's three questions?)
What's First Contact ??? ... Shoot On Sight ... (removed of course)
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Not sure if this has been said already, but what's gonna happen to those "first contact" trivia games (you know, the ones where you chat it up with a few NPCs, then answer the ambassador's three questions?)
Theysa gone "bye bye" just like everything else to do with the clusters, bar doff assignments. It's not just the exploration missions that are gone, it's everything that was in the clusters, including anything diplomatic. The only thing that will survive are the doff assignments.
Come to think of it, why does Jiro Sugihara even exist in game anymore if the diplo stuff is gone other than doffing?
Although I do want a sense of 'exploration' in a Star Trek game, this model *was* lackluster. Cryptic has properly identified it as such and is doing something about it. Yes, there is a hole left in the total game ... but I am thinking Cryptic is working on an alternative in the long run.
For my part, it only took a few runs in these clusters to realize what was happening and it *was* a disappointment for me as a new player. The clusters were there for me to grab accolades and the oft-mentioned supplies for Crafting ... until even that well ran dry. Lately, I used them to practice new BOff abilities in space and ground as well as weapons. It was also my way to break the chain of Rep progression I get into. So that much will be lost to me on this, but it is small compared to my overall game experience.
Although I do want a sense of 'exploration' in a Star Trek game, this model *was* lackluster. Cryptic has properly identified it as such and is doing something about it. Yes, there is a hole left in the total game ... but I am thinking Cryptic is working on an alternative in the long run.
For my part, it only took a few runs in these clusters to realize what was happening and it *was* a disappointment for me as a new player. The clusters were there for me to grab accolades and the oft-mentioned supplies for Crafting ... until even that well ran dry. Lately, I used them to practice new BOff abilities in space and ground as well as weapons. It was also my way to break the chain of Rep progression I get into. So that much will be lost to me on this, but it is small compared to my overall game experience.
I won't argue that but imo, it's more like an old ship that needs a refit but can still contribute meaningfully to the fleet. It doesn't need scrapping and replacing. It just needs some new equipment, a lick of paint, an overhaul and a few new things added.
The whole thing is just the culmination of a vicious cycle of abandonment. The devs don't give it much thought as no one plays it. No one plays it as the devs never gave it much thought. The devs don't give it much attention as no one plays it. etc etc until..
BOOOM
Deletenuke DEPLOYED!
It doesn't need scrapping and replacing. It just needs some new equipment, a lick of paint, an overhaul and a few new things added.
I am not certain that we are playing the same game. We probably have different opinions on Cryptic's past abilities to revamp existing content in this way.
I can only imagine, "Now you can earn isolinear deposits by killing 5/5 ships on one of 3700 missions that are really only like 10 different missions. For a limited time you can redeem your isolinear deposits for a poor amount of marks, unless you would like to use dilithium to convert your isolinear deposits into redifined isolinear deposits. If you do this daily for 35 days, you can earn a Mk XII isolinear console that grants you +.005 turn rate. You won't notice a difference in gameplay, but you can tell your friends about your stats."
This is like cutting off an arm that's gone gangrene. True, you make the person better than if he had a rotting lump of flesh dumping poison into his bloodstream, but he's still missing a damn arm, and that's a BAD thing. The foundry is like a mannequin arm pretending to be a prosthetic, you need to get some cyborg bits in here. Remake it better, stronger, faster...
Okay I think I ran that metaphor into the ground. Point is, yeah this is cutting off content that was pretty much dead and a little annoying, and that'll probably reduce server load and other considerations that make the game a bit easier to manage, but the foundry ain't gonna cut it. There are generations of fans that know the phrase "to boldly go where no man has gone before" and you desperately need to pander to that more than throwing more iconian patsies out for us to blow up.
Admiral Ryvaken, USS Arthra (NCC-947749), Aventine class.
As the seventy-fourth Rule of Acquisition clearly states, knowledge equals profit. And I am a very rich Ferengi.
Although I do want a sense of 'exploration' in a Star Trek game, this model *was* lackluster.
Agreed, exploration cluster missions were not the shining jewels of the game.
Although, I will admit to a certain zen-like calm when running them.
Not top notch material, but an occasional change of pace thing.
And the dilithium didn't hurt either.
Cryptic has properly identified it as such and is doing something about it. Yes, there is a hole left in the total game ... but I am thinking Cryptic is working on an alternative in the long run.
See, this is where it becomes a matter of trust in a way.
Has Cryptics record in this sort of thing been trust-worthy?
When removing content have they promptly replaced it with something better?
If your answer is yes, then I can see exactly where you're coming from.
If your answer is not yes, then the whole thing is just a bit depressing.
Rather like hearing that an idiot friend of yours has done that idiotic thing again.
I am not certain that we are playing the same game. We probably have different opinions on Cryptic's past abilities to revamp existing content in this way.
Oh no, we do have similar opinions. However, I do have the occasional optimistic phase.
Has anyone actually tried putting together a thorough proposal about an idea, having gone through the idea for problems, strengths, weaknesses, threats etc with other players and sent it on to cryptic? Not just on the forum, but by email, or old fashioned snail mail?
I can't think of any examples tbh
I can only imagine, "Now you can earn isolinear deposits by killing 5/5 ships on one of 3700 missions that are really only like 10 different missions. For a limited time you can redeem your isolinear deposits for a poor amount of marks, unless you would like to use dilithium to convert your isolinear deposits into redifined isolinear deposits. If you do this daily for 35 days, you can earn a Mk XII isolinear console that grants you +.005 turn rate. You won't notice a difference in gameplay, but you can tell your friends about your stats."
Wow, you really are quite the pessimist. If you have such a low opinion of cryptic, why are you here?
Exploration = Star Trek. No Exploration = minor league war game, with dinosaurs.
So true and
In order to create an epic exploration style game, "Star Trek: Online" would need to be rebuilt from scratch. "Star Trek: Online" should have been built as a pure role-playing game, which mirrored games such as "Dragon Age: Origins" and "Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic".
"Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic", not the MMO, changed the world of role-playing games forever. Some of the game's features include: (1) cinematic cut-scenes, (2) dialogue cut-scenes, (3) pc/npc dialogue options with consequences, (4) light-weight crafting system, (5) item customization, (6) character customization, etc... After "Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic" showed what was possible, "Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines", "FallOut", "Oblivion", "Jade Empire", and "Neverwinter Nights II" ran with the ball.
"Star Trek: Online" uses a very-very-very old school set a paradigms, which prevent it from becoming a modernized role-playing game. Cryptic went back to the early millennia, and they fused old-school rpg mechanics with old-school strategy game mechanics.
"Star Trek: Online's" space PvEs and 'free to play' approach + "Star Wars: The Old Republic's" open world planetary exploration and PvP maps = The Ultimate "Star Trek" game.
To those insisting the Exploration Clusters are Content, do you need help getting down off the tall horse? :rolleyes:
I have severely reclassified my definition of Content (probably a year ago) due to observing the basic nature of STO.
To me, Content is official Story missions created by the Devs, usually with a unique or new item reward for mission completion.
Or alternatively, new Story Chain missions, even if the rewards aren't that spectacular (like the chains they introduced when New Romulus/Nimbus III came out).
I define New Content as something I haven't done before, something new.
Exploration Clusters were so far down the list of my definition of Content, they're not even on it!
As I pointed out, I did so many of them, all I felt I was doing was replaying the same basic story infinitely.
Defend this cluster from attackers, investigate this mystery and so on.
It actually got to the point where I knew in advance what I would be doing from the first contact screen that pops up during the mission.
So to say we're losing Content just because Cryptic has chosen to remove a RNG mission generator is foolish.
I get far more satisfaction out of DOFFing then I do Cluster Exploration.
At least it requires me to think, sending the right kind of DOFFs and the best ones suitable to the task at hand.
And if I'm creative, I can find ones to make them funny, like sending limbless DOFFs (Exocomps usually) to learn martial arts on Vulcan for example.
And if you're still not getting your Content Quota of Fun, go play Foundry missions.
While I do not play them myself, I'm sure there's enough of them out there to give you tons of stories you haven't experienced before.
With all these options for content, I don't think anyone will miss a standardized RNG mission.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Wow, you really are quite the pessimist. If you have such a low opinion of cryptic, why are you here?
Granted, there was sarcasm there, but does it really sound to you like something that could not happen, if they took your advice of adding a paint job to a system of randomly generated junk missions?
Also, an exploration revamp and specific proposals have been made time and time and time again.
To those insisting the Exploration Clusters are Content, do you need help getting down off the tall horse? :rolleyes:
I have severely reclassified my definition of Content (probably a year ago) due to observing the basic nature of STO.
To me, Content is official Story missions created by the Devs, usually with a unique or new item reward for mission completion.
Or alternatively, new Story Chain missions, even if the rewards aren't that spectacular (like the chains they introduced when New Romulus/Nimbus III came out).
I define New Content as something I haven't done before, something new.
Exploration Clusters were so far down the list of my definition of Content, they're not even on it!
As I pointed out, I did so many of them, all I felt I was doing was replaying the same basic story infinitely.
Defend this cluster from attackers, investigate this mystery and so on.
It actually got to the point where I knew in advance what I would be doing from the first contact screen that pops up during the mission.
So to say we're losing Content just because Cryptic has chosen to remove a RNG mission generator is foolish.
I get far more satisfaction out of DOFFing then I do Cluster Exploration.
At least it requires me to think, sending the right kind of DOFFs and the best ones suitable to the task at hand.
And if I'm creative, I can find ones to make them funny, like sending limbless DOFFs (Exocomps usually) to learn martial arts on Vulcan for example.
And if you're still not getting your Content Quota of Fun, go play Foundry missions.
While I do not play them myself, I'm sure there's enough of them out there to give you tons of stories you haven't experienced before.
With all these options for content, I don't think anyone will miss a standardized RNG mission.
Of course they are content. Just because they aren't content that you personally enjoy changes nothing.
A problem has been rightly identified, however there is no solution that compensates for the removal of the clusters.
The idea of exploration is quintessential to Trek, so I would expect it to be reintegrated elsewhere down the line. Potentially with the second expansion, as Cryptic have a history of preparatory decisions before releases.
And, once again... the issue is not the removal of the exploration clusters, at least for me (some people, I know, actually enjoyed them and will miss them in their own right, though).
The problem is that they are being removed and not replaced - that the exploration aspect of the game, already badly served, is being entirely deleted.
The Foundry idea is doomed to failure, on the issue of quality control - if anything that's flagged up as "exploration" can be accessed from a (former) cluster, very quickly people are going to get dumped into fatally bugged missions, or ones that include massive TOS violations. Cryptic will then either have to vet and approve the Foundry content, or just remove access to it. Since one of those is obviously cheaper and easier, guess which one they will go with?
I reiterate (pointlessly, I know, but I'm going to do it anyway): this is a truly lousy move, and Cryptic needs to re-think it, urgently. Like, "drop existing plans for season 10 and make it the exploration revamp season instead" urgently.
I'm actually perfectly okay with this change. I haven't spent much time in the exploration clusters since the Metaphasic (was that what it was called?) hourly event was removed. Before that I really only did a lot of the random missions with my first toon. As long as we can still do the colonial chains and the high cxp assignments like "Establish a listening post in X", I will not miss more loading screens and excuses for my First Officer to pop up and tell me I've been cleared to warp somewhere I wasn't going in the first place.
They can sell it as an MMO kind of because a great deal of the playerbase like to play solo.
The point of this thread remains. They are removing a feature of the game and resorting to the foundry to provide an alternative.
This to me is unacceptable. Especially when it is an aspect that is key to the whole ethos of STO.
Cryptic you need to be making a new alternative ASAP. If your plan is for the foundry TRIBBLE to permanently replace the exploration side of STO, then i really think you are walking a dangerous path. I see no mention of there being plans for a new exploration system in that dev blog.
Player content SHOULD NEVER be considered as an alternative for key features. That's what people pay you for.
Well said.
Back when it was being introduced, there were in fact quite a few players who were concerned that the Foundry would end up giving the devs an easy way out when it came to developing content. They were quick to assure us that they would never rely on the Foundry authors to produce content for them in place of their own work.
I still want to know what cryptic is going to do about them taking away the ability for players to bridge invite others to partake in the doff assignments associated with said exploration clusters?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
The Foundry idea is doomed to failure, on the issue of quality control - if anything that's flagged up as "exploration" can be accessed from a (former) cluster, very quickly people are going to get dumped into fatally bugged missions, or ones that include massive TOS violations. Cryptic will then either have to vet and approve the Foundry content, or just remove access to it. Since one of those is obviously cheaper and easier, guess which one they will go with?
The only thing confirmed here is that Foundry authors will be able to use the clusters as doors. You'll still have to search for a mission. You won't be able to get dumped into a random foundry mission by entering a cluster.
It amounts to "at least let Foundry authors create exploration content, when we remove our own." I would love to see something more complex. A team of 12 people at Starbase UGC could work together to make lots of short exploration missions that are fun and not buggy. We could vet the stuff for Cryptic. But something like that type of system requires dev time and Foundry on a schedule.
Back when it was being introduced, there were in fact quite a few players who were concerned that the Foundry would end up giving the devs an easy way out when it came to developing content. They were quick to assure us that they would never rely on the Foundry authors to produce content for them in place of their own work.
So much for that.
I still hold out hope that the 2nd expansion will involve a revamp to the exploration aspect of the game that is actually interesting, random, and fun. Calling the same couple dozen missions "exploration" is being very generous IMO. Assuming expansion 2 is actually about "boldly going where no one yadda yadda" then the real unfortunate aspect of this announcement is timing and the NDA mandated tight lipped silence about upcoming content.
Now if expansion 2 ends up being more instanced battles, this time with assimilated Undine flying Voth ships with Crystalline Entity attack pets, then they should really just give up and admit the game is just "Space POW POW Online" and that they're just using the Star Trek IP for the name recognition and some of the trappings.
A team of 12 people at Starbase UGC could work together to make lots of short exploration missions that are fun and not buggy. We could vet the stuff for Cryptic.
Missions made and vetted by a self-selected clique of players? Yes, there is no conceivable way anything could possibly go wrong with that idea.
Comments
Check out my awesome first contact mission! It involves "exploring an unknown system," where a planet's inhabitants say, "Starfleet, where are the supplies you promised to bring us?" You can then explore a cave where a console is half-sticking out of a wall and describes itself as a "transporter pad." Scan 5/5 to discover that the starfleet research outpost in this "unknown system" was raided by Gorn, according to Starfleet records of this "unknown system." Sorry, but one of the things that you have to scan is misplaced inside of a large gas giant. I did that for flare.
Oh and I made sure that random anomalies are placed directly above you, so you have to fly in circles to discover whether you're heading for a mission objective or just trying to find some annoying anomaly.
This mission was truly inspired by the quality of Cryptic's exploration clusters. I've never felt more like an explorer.
Mission is named "Explore System TRD-47474747474747474747474747474747474747474747-474747474747."
You forgot your [/sarcasm] tags. :P
Hey, some of the missions are pretty good. But most of the ones I've played are awful. They actually make the ones in the exploration clusters, machine generated missions, look good.
But adding an exploration "flag" that a foundry author could set so that their mission would be in the 'deck' of exploration cluster missions would get that author their precious epeen swelling "plays" as well as giving the whole thing a bit more variety.
If they added in a faction specific rep system around the exploration missions with some of the foundry missions thrown in, I think it would work rather nicely, so long as the rewards were decent (faction specific stuff, like buffs for those who use faction ships and weapons etc).
Also, yes I get it that you're a foundry author. Yes, I get it that you are one of the better ones, but that doesn't mean going "foundry only" is what's best for the game. It would be better overall if both systems, both parties, worked together and not against each other.
*Slaps Kirksplat*
Aid the planet!!!! How can you making missions when there are planets out there that need aiding!!!!
We're lucky that they're giving us doors. It's not like it's part of some master plan to turn clusters into "foundry only." They gutted the stuff out of a plan for crafting and they threw us a bone. Maybe one day, they'll do something to help players find the stuff we create. Who knows?
It's fortunate that those human colonists on a Y-class demon planet only need 15 stem cells, when they don't have industrial replicators. It's a tribute to the human spirit of survival, against the odds. They've even started a school.
They aren't just "gutting" it. They are nuking it from orbit and putting a foundry door where the stumps are. If that isn't a step towards "foundry only" then I don't know what is.
The only thing exploration clusters ever had to do with crafting was the fact that you could get a lot of crafting materials in a relatively short space of time.
Kirksplat, what do you think of my idea about having an "exploration" flag on foundry missions you want putting in to the pile for the clusters? It would for sure help with the issue you cited of not being able to find the stuff you create, so long as there was a compelling reason for exploration missions to be done, something like a faction specific rep or rewards system for exploration etc.
Perhaps at the end of a foundry mission that's come up in that exploration cluster, a box would pop up crediting the author and saying "try out these other missions from the same author" or "other highly rated missions"?
We've been asking for something like this for 3 years. At least 2 years ago, Dstahl announced plans for an exploration revamp that centered on Foundry content. Nothing came of it.
TBH, I'm not really hopeful of a such an interesting UI revamp, when we can't convince Geko that a "next" button is useful for search results.
Apparently, he does not like Google's page 2, page 3, page 4, page 5, etc. Too many choices overwhelm the average internet user. They quit the internet, instead of spending $$$.
Tell me about it man. Thing is, it would go quite a way towards the content drought. Hell, they could even monetize it by putting a "rep double XP boost" or some kind of short term rewards booster in the c store.
Perhaps they could tempt people into buying more lockbox keys etc through occasionally (i.e. very rarely) giving a free key or 20 lobi when exploring, saying something along the lines of "oh wow, you just found a lockbox key/small box of lobi floating in space!" or something?
The odd freebie never hurts, right?
####
EDIT
I wouldn't centre the exploration around the foundry, at least not at first. As the number of flagged foundry missions rise, I'd slowly but surely reduce the number of classic genesis missions, perhaps replacing some of them with properly made ones.
Nah ... they got lost in the internet ... :P
Secondly, I echo the "loss" of the physical clusters where you can see a department head list that had missions on the separate 20 hour timer... They've helped every character that I have set up the clusters on to farm the purples from there. That is, unless they're gonna extend the department head functionality to the "hotspots" they're putting in the regular sectors (so that if you're in the DV hotspot, your department heads pull the DV cluster missions instead of the Sirius sector missions)
Address these two problems, and I might not be so upset at the loss of the physical clusters...
And then my semi-usual rant hits me. Once again, this can be easily interpreted to be another ham-fisted attempt to "force" players (this time crafters) into playing a "select subset" of PvE queues instead of, you know, playing the game. In light of the "boy, there's more PvE queues than players playing them" comment, it's looking that we're being herded so that everything for "endgame" is gonna be either battlezone or PvE queue...
Yep, park at battlezone of choice and queue up everything you want to do at endgame. No wonder there hasn't been a release of a sector-speed increasing engine since the Tal-Shiar cruiser, they're hiding the whole sector block issue by removing all need to be in sector blocks for endgame...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
What's First Contact ??? ... Shoot On Sight ... (removed of course)
Theysa gone "bye bye" just like everything else to do with the clusters, bar doff assignments. It's not just the exploration missions that are gone, it's everything that was in the clusters, including anything diplomatic. The only thing that will survive are the doff assignments.
Come to think of it, why does Jiro Sugihara even exist in game anymore if the diplo stuff is gone other than doffing?
Although I do want a sense of 'exploration' in a Star Trek game, this model *was* lackluster. Cryptic has properly identified it as such and is doing something about it. Yes, there is a hole left in the total game ... but I am thinking Cryptic is working on an alternative in the long run.
For my part, it only took a few runs in these clusters to realize what was happening and it *was* a disappointment for me as a new player. The clusters were there for me to grab accolades and the oft-mentioned supplies for Crafting ... until even that well ran dry. Lately, I used them to practice new BOff abilities in space and ground as well as weapons. It was also my way to break the chain of Rep progression I get into. So that much will be lost to me on this, but it is small compared to my overall game experience.
I won't argue that but imo, it's more like an old ship that needs a refit but can still contribute meaningfully to the fleet. It doesn't need scrapping and replacing. It just needs some new equipment, a lick of paint, an overhaul and a few new things added.
The whole thing is just the culmination of a vicious cycle of abandonment. The devs don't give it much thought as no one plays it. No one plays it as the devs never gave it much thought. The devs don't give it much attention as no one plays it. etc etc until..
BOOOM
Deletenuke DEPLOYED!
I am not certain that we are playing the same game. We probably have different opinions on Cryptic's past abilities to revamp existing content in this way.
I can only imagine, "Now you can earn isolinear deposits by killing 5/5 ships on one of 3700 missions that are really only like 10 different missions. For a limited time you can redeem your isolinear deposits for a poor amount of marks, unless you would like to use dilithium to convert your isolinear deposits into redifined isolinear deposits. If you do this daily for 35 days, you can earn a Mk XII isolinear console that grants you +.005 turn rate. You won't notice a difference in gameplay, but you can tell your friends about your stats."
Okay I think I ran that metaphor into the ground. Point is, yeah this is cutting off content that was pretty much dead and a little annoying, and that'll probably reduce server load and other considerations that make the game a bit easier to manage, but the foundry ain't gonna cut it. There are generations of fans that know the phrase "to boldly go where no man has gone before" and you desperately need to pander to that more than throwing more iconian patsies out for us to blow up.
As the seventy-fourth Rule of Acquisition clearly states, knowledge equals profit. And I am a very rich Ferengi.
Agreed, exploration cluster missions were not the shining jewels of the game.
Although, I will admit to a certain zen-like calm when running them.
Not top notch material, but an occasional change of pace thing.
And the dilithium didn't hurt either.
See, this is where it becomes a matter of trust in a way.
Has Cryptics record in this sort of thing been trust-worthy?
When removing content have they promptly replaced it with something better?
If your answer is yes, then I can see exactly where you're coming from.
If your answer is not yes, then the whole thing is just a bit depressing.
Rather like hearing that an idiot friend of yours has done that idiotic thing again.
Oh no, we do have similar opinions. However, I do have the occasional optimistic phase.
Has anyone actually tried putting together a thorough proposal about an idea, having gone through the idea for problems, strengths, weaknesses, threats etc with other players and sent it on to cryptic? Not just on the forum, but by email, or old fashioned snail mail?
I can't think of any examples tbh
Wow, you really are quite the pessimist. If you have such a low opinion of cryptic, why are you here?
"Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic", not the MMO, changed the world of role-playing games forever. Some of the game's features include: (1) cinematic cut-scenes, (2) dialogue cut-scenes, (3) pc/npc dialogue options with consequences, (4) light-weight crafting system, (5) item customization, (6) character customization, etc... After "Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic" showed what was possible, "Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines", "FallOut", "Oblivion", "Jade Empire", and "Neverwinter Nights II" ran with the ball.
"Star Trek: Online" uses a very-very-very old school set a paradigms, which prevent it from becoming a modernized role-playing game. Cryptic went back to the early millennia, and they fused old-school rpg mechanics with old-school strategy game mechanics.
"Star Trek: Online's" space PvEs and 'free to play' approach + "Star Wars: The Old Republic's" open world planetary exploration and PvP maps = The Ultimate "Star Trek" game.
I have severely reclassified my definition of Content (probably a year ago) due to observing the basic nature of STO.
To me, Content is official Story missions created by the Devs, usually with a unique or new item reward for mission completion.
Or alternatively, new Story Chain missions, even if the rewards aren't that spectacular (like the chains they introduced when New Romulus/Nimbus III came out).
I define New Content as something I haven't done before, something new.
Exploration Clusters were so far down the list of my definition of Content, they're not even on it!
As I pointed out, I did so many of them, all I felt I was doing was replaying the same basic story infinitely.
Defend this cluster from attackers, investigate this mystery and so on.
It actually got to the point where I knew in advance what I would be doing from the first contact screen that pops up during the mission.
So to say we're losing Content just because Cryptic has chosen to remove a RNG mission generator is foolish.
I get far more satisfaction out of DOFFing then I do Cluster Exploration.
At least it requires me to think, sending the right kind of DOFFs and the best ones suitable to the task at hand.
And if I'm creative, I can find ones to make them funny, like sending limbless DOFFs (Exocomps usually) to learn martial arts on Vulcan for example.
And if you're still not getting your Content Quota of Fun, go play Foundry missions.
While I do not play them myself, I'm sure there's enough of them out there to give you tons of stories you haven't experienced before.
With all these options for content, I don't think anyone will miss a standardized RNG mission.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Granted, there was sarcasm there, but does it really sound to you like something that could not happen, if they took your advice of adding a paint job to a system of randomly generated junk missions?
Also, an exploration revamp and specific proposals have been made time and time and time again.
Of course they are content. Just because they aren't content that you personally enjoy changes nothing.
I for one am going to miss them a great deal.
The idea of exploration is quintessential to Trek, so I would expect it to be reintegrated elsewhere down the line. Potentially with the second expansion, as Cryptic have a history of preparatory decisions before releases.
Valdus | Charn | Costello | Typhus | Thyran
The problem is that they are being removed and not replaced - that the exploration aspect of the game, already badly served, is being entirely deleted.
The Foundry idea is doomed to failure, on the issue of quality control - if anything that's flagged up as "exploration" can be accessed from a (former) cluster, very quickly people are going to get dumped into fatally bugged missions, or ones that include massive TOS violations. Cryptic will then either have to vet and approve the Foundry content, or just remove access to it. Since one of those is obviously cheaper and easier, guess which one they will go with?
I reiterate (pointlessly, I know, but I'm going to do it anyway): this is a truly lousy move, and Cryptic needs to re-think it, urgently. Like, "drop existing plans for season 10 and make it the exploration revamp season instead" urgently.
Well said.
Back when it was being introduced, there were in fact quite a few players who were concerned that the Foundry would end up giving the devs an easy way out when it came to developing content. They were quick to assure us that they would never rely on the Foundry authors to produce content for them in place of their own work.
So much for that.
The only thing confirmed here is that Foundry authors will be able to use the clusters as doors. You'll still have to search for a mission. You won't be able to get dumped into a random foundry mission by entering a cluster.
It amounts to "at least let Foundry authors create exploration content, when we remove our own." I would love to see something more complex. A team of 12 people at Starbase UGC could work together to make lots of short exploration missions that are fun and not buggy. We could vet the stuff for Cryptic. But something like that type of system requires dev time and Foundry on a schedule.
I still hold out hope that the 2nd expansion will involve a revamp to the exploration aspect of the game that is actually interesting, random, and fun. Calling the same couple dozen missions "exploration" is being very generous IMO. Assuming expansion 2 is actually about "boldly going where no one yadda yadda" then the real unfortunate aspect of this announcement is timing and the NDA mandated tight lipped silence about upcoming content.
Now if expansion 2 ends up being more instanced battles, this time with assimilated Undine flying Voth ships with Crystalline Entity attack pets, then they should really just give up and admit the game is just "Space POW POW Online" and that they're just using the Star Trek IP for the name recognition and some of the trappings.