Not to offend anyone who made this new doff UI but its not what the tigers like best, that is to say its horrible and should not have been made in the first place.
It would be passable for a tablet I think, but since Im desktop player I find it aggravating. It makes me hate anything related to duty officers and its a problem for me because I really liked it before.
Bareel has some great suggestions to the old doff system which I would really like to see implemented instead of this unvieldy and irritating new try.
Also, I may not be a professional when it comes to computers but I cannot think that Mightybobcnc is right, Is it really so hard to make it that both tablet users and PC players can have what works for them best? Do we really have to use one UI?
I took one more look today the last patch improve the new Ui a bit, but still no match for the old one. as i poted in the patchnotes still to big need a sizereduces of picutes, and stort all better, filters filters and more filters (traits, quality,...) are needed. Less klicking and scrolling is more fun.
Ps i really miss the succses diagramm from the old ui
The new UI was BIG........overpowering and really not necessary IMO.
I don't like it at all and have to wonder, because I read the forums often enough, where they thought this was an improvement or that the players wanted it...It sure feels like something we did not ask for.
Much of the new Doff system seemed incomplete and did not work that is fine and was expected.
All these percentages and chances for criticals/failures/success were just another click I avoided reading as I already know the Doff system and so have to ask..is it really necessary?
Today we fight the GAULS......monstrous and HAIRY beyond reason.
Right, well I finished fiddling with the new crafting system so here's my two cents.
First, the basic idea is probably sound as proven by Neverwinter since that's basically where you lifted the entire thing from. That is also where most of the problems originate from.
The interface being used for the crafting window needs to be consolidated badly. To echo pretty much everyone it takes up too much space for half the information we are used to getting at a glance. When lifting systems wholesale also copying the aesthetic into a game with an entirely different aesthetic is unwise. You need to match the interface to Star Trek Online, not to Neverwinter. Best solution from my point of view would be to keep the current Doff interface and facelift it to fit your crafting system around.
Although this next problem is actually an issue through STO it is a valid complaint with the new crafting system as it stands. Your prices are uneven. In some places one item might cost 15000 dilithium while others a similar or even weaker item will cost double. This is an issue with the crafting system on Holodeck actually, it costs an ungodly amount of dilithium for an XI item through crafting when you can get a better one through the fleet or rep systems for half or less the cost. You need to start by setting an internal metric to ALL prices for certain gear types and keep it consistent. I will even help here, at this time your average Fleet XII weapon costs 8,000-9,000 dilithium and rep weapons cost around 15,000. If you go with random results you need to drop the cost per item in crafting to under fleet weapons at a minimum. Best case would be 10% or less. The place to scalp people in costs is if you include a system to change a modifier. Bottom line, if costs stay the same expect the system to flounder as bad as the current system. Remember, STO is not Neverwinter.
So, things to fix. Interface is clunky, fat, and doesn't fit with player expectations. Crafting dilithium costs are crazy assuming items remain randomized. Either allow full control over the result or drop the price. Although you could also allow PARTIAL control for a cost increase and come out ahead. It is amazingly mind numbing to produce crafting material from crating material to make crafting material that only might make the item I want, a step or two removed from the process might make the system less hostile feeling.
And so another bit of feedback for the thresher. Hope it helps someone.
the gateway is a website, it doesn't load the game client and doesn't use its gui. all it does is most likely sending commands to the game server, for which you don't need an in game gui since it already has its own gui on the website.
so why do it for the client, which will most likely never connect with the gateway directly?
it really sounds to me more like they're only trying to make it look similar to what gateway will have, even if it'll look worse in the actual game, since such design should never appear anywhere but on mobiles. not on desktop, not on consoles, not in video games.
Now clowns, that's another story. They scare the crap out of me.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
the auto assigned doffs are terribad. Did the 30min Check for contraband mission that requires two security doffs, and it auto assigned tactical doffs with one crit trait.
I had two security doffs with both cirt traits sitting in the roster. They perform much better then the conn doffs the system assigned, i made sure to cross check. Of course i had to know this fact by heart, because by pushing the "Select button" i no longer see what the matching stats of the long list of clunky doffs that opens up have. This will significantly increase the time for a full doffing around, not fun, no improvement quite the opposite in fact.
New DOff UI causes mac client crash to desktop 3 out of 4 times. Just for once, could you please do some mac testing.
I am not getting used to the UI, it is still a downgrade with huge boxes for assignments and tiny text about the rarity and lots of extra cursor movement and clicks to start a simple assignment.
I'll repost what I said in the Tribble notes thread after the 24.6. patch, as for once I didn't nerd rage much and it should be pretty constructive criticism (in case someone actually cares and reads this thread...):
So, as I expected, the last bits of a nice Doff UI are being eradicated.
Why can't you make the assignements take less space on my screen? Is it because of the Gateway? If so, just say it, I may be more open to some changes then. If not, just make it all smaller.
Several bugs with claiming completed assignements:
- 1) You need to enter the details of an assignement to claim it (the claim rewards in the 'Complete' tab doesn't work.
- 2) If you have no place in Doff roster, Brig or Colonist tab, the claim rewards button disappears after the first try (and doesn't reappear even if you make place for the rewards).
Still no pie charts, only dull grey columns...
Nice to see traits when choosing doffs, but:
- 1) We don't see all the traits that bring crit, success, fail and disaster on the assignement.
- 2) We still can't sort doffs in any way while choosing them.
- 3) We still have to choose doffs in another doff window taking another part of the screen.
We still have to click on an assignement to see more of it, than click again to get back to the list, then again to see another assignement ... It's twice as many clicking as it was previously. We still kept seeing the list while looking at all the details of different assignements.
We're still missing like 90% of Clusters' functionality:
- 1) Most of the Doff assignements gone;
- 2) DH second chance gone;
- 3) Bridge invite possibility gone;
- 4) Data samples from clusters gone;
- 5) All of exploration gone from a Star Trek game.
All in all: The new Doff UI is still horrible and useless compared to current UI. Great losses with the Clusters change.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Could you please ensure that Cluster missions are available from a ships bridge as without this function the usefulness of my freighter becomes practically nil.
Oh yes it would be SO silly for me to play the game while I'm playing the game.
Tell me again why the UI for a mobile html web-app (gateway) used on a 4-inch screen must be identical to the UI in a compiled executable binary that I can run on a 4k monitor? I call bull. All that matters is presenting the proper database and API hooks to both UIs. They can be as visually different as night and day and still have identical functionality.
The reason is probably that they don't want to maintain the code for two different UIs.
Sure NOW I find this thread after I found another one that was talking about this issue. Adding my post from there.
My current issue with the DOFF system on Tribble is how the missions are presented. I do my DOFF missions with goals or missions in mind. AKA say I'm focusing on Diplomatic XP. The current holodeck layout works efficient for this. The Tribble system does not.
This is probably my biggest issue with the new layout. I don't have a problem with trying to make it mobile friendly though seems to be a bit crazy I get why.
If you're going to have a complete assignment button have it workable... Currently you have to view the details to complete the mission. I'm guessing this is just a general bug at the moment and wouldn't hit holodeck but needs to be said just in case.
I agree with a lot of the other sentiments expressed through out the thread as well but the break down of the mission type can't be stressed enough.
Yes the missions currently take up way too much room on the screen compared to the live version. Making the whole thing a lot more cumbersome than it needs to be.
As usual I found my way in the forums far too late... everything has been already said and instead of reposting every single issue I simply have to agree on all!
I'm sorry to whichever dev "designed" that UI, but that is one of the worst pieces of UX design I've seen in this game -- if only because it makes a fair GUI a hundred times worse.
Upgrading a UI should make it easier to use with all information a user finds necessary easier to see.
This does the opposite. Go back to the drawing board and hire a UX expert!
Unless the goal is to kill the DOFF system by driving people away, because if left as-is, this makes the DOFF system unplayable.
The reason is probably that they don't want to maintain the code for two different UIs.
They just have to make it responsive -- use Foundation or Bootstrap or a dozen others to make the interface workable for all screen sizes. This UX is either a victim of laziness or lack of skill (or both!).
I'm sorry to whichever dev "designed" that UI, but that is one of the worst pieces of UX design I've seen in this game -- if only because it makes a fair GUI a hundred times worse.
Upgrading a UI should make it easier to use with all information a user finds necessary easier to see.
This does the opposite. Go back to the drawing board and hire a UX expert!
Unless the goal is to kill the DOFF system by driving people away, because if left as-is, this makes the DOFF system unplayable.
Hey
I made a video that shows the ease of use between the old UI and new UI. Simply the new one you click more to figure out something. The older less because more information at one time.
This is like Windows 8 was taking warmly because of the interface. The fact is desktops requires one type of UI and mobile another UI. The next windows will have UIs for each.
Cryptic needs to learn from that mistake. Don't mix UI.
I made a video that shows the ease of use between the old UI and new UI. Simply the new one you click more to figure out something. The older less because more information at one time.
This is like Windows 8 was taking warmly because of the interface. The fact is desktops requires one type of UI and mobile another UI. The next windows will have UIs for each.
Cryptic needs to learn from that mistake. Don't mix UI.
Aala
Clicking more is bad design. It's entirely possible to have the information for PC and the gimpy mobile interface at the same time because I do it everyday as a web designer. That Cryptic is forcing the lowest common denominator (mobile users) on the majority of players (those who are actually in the game) is ridiculous.
Clicking more is bad design. It's entirely possible to have the information for PC and the gimpy mobile interface at the same time because I do it everyday as a web designer. That Cryptic is forcing the lowest common denominator (mobile users) on the majority of players (those who are actually in the game) is ridiculous.
I agree.
Sadly Cryptic feels its possible a whole desktop UI into a mobile phone or tablet UI. That doesn't make sense.
There's really nothing I can say that hasn't been said in nearly every previous post. I'll just add my voice to the growing discontent with this new UI.
Season 9.5 has introduced substantial changes to the doff system. Here is my initial feedback.
1. You've drastically reduced the number of assignments available from exploration clusters. In each exploration cluster, assignments used to be available under "Current Map", "Personal", and "Department Heads". Now, each cluster offers only one tab with fewer assignments than available under "Current Map".
2. I can no longer filter by quality, traits, or specialization when an planning assignment.
3. Why do I need to see crafting skill when I'm planning a normal doff assignment?
4. Assignments under "Current Map" and "Personal" are no longer organized by commendation category. This makes it hard to look for assignments belonging to a specific category. The same applies to department heads who offer more than one category of assignment. The same also applies to the new exploration cluster tab.
5. Please color-code the chances of critical success, success, failure, and disaster.
6. The rewards and requirements often don't fit in their boxes.
8. In the old UI, even before planning an assignment, I could see the specialization requirements as well as the traits which influence critical success, success, failure, and disaster. In the new UI, I have to hover my mouse over icons in the assignment list to read the specialization requirements, and the mouseover tooltips don't show the traits.
Edit: Updated with additional points from my later posts.
I typically don't post, but I use the DOFF System every day, that's my primary mode of play when I have limited time. These changes make it clunky, less efficient and much more time consuming to do tasks that have been easy since the introduction of the DOFF System. Please use the above as points of reference.
Many people have already complained about the reduction in the number of assignments available from exploration clusters. I've recently realized that the removal of Memory Alpha will also remove the assignments available in that zone. Does anyone know if there are any unique assignments in Memory Alpha that will be lost?
Many people have already complained about the reduction in the number of assignments available from exploration clusters. I've recently realized that the removal of Memory Alpha will also remove the assignments available in that zone. Does anyone know if there are any unique assignments in Memory Alpha that will be lost?
Not that I know of. Also latest tribble patch has absolutely no improvements for the doff UI yet. I am still holding out hope they keep the old one.
Would it kill a Dev to drop in for a sec and say "Thanks for the input, keep in mind it's still a WIP!"?
The silence is deafening.
It's obviously, officially at least, a WIP. I don't see why a dev would come and pretty much state the obvious.
This UI is screaming "tablet" all the way. I think it's part of a larger plan to monetize the Gateway. Adding the DOFF and craft to it, at least. Maybe a bunch of others features.
That's why the UI is horrible, pretty much like the latest windows. Simply because it's made for tablet/phone first, then for PC.
So I don't think they'll revert it. At best, they'll add a bunch of update according to our feedback, but I don't get my hopes high. I'm pretty sure it will stay the way it is, more or less a few things.
Money>players feedback.
And that's another reason why they don't comments much on it. They simply can't (yet). They are probably waiting to do some huge announcement and try to do a bit of noise around it. Like "New in STO, gateway feature for mobile/tablet ! Come and check it out !". Maybe add a giveaway/reduction of some sort around it, like they did for ARC.
Season 9.5 has introduced substantial changes to the doff system. Here is my initial feedback.
1. You've drastically reduced the number of assignments available from exploration clusters. In each exploration cluster, assignments used to be available under "Current Map", "Personal", and "Department Heads". Now, each cluster offers only one tab with fewer assignments than available under "Current Map".
2. I can no longer filter by quality, traits, or specialization when an planning assignment.
3. Why do I need to see crafting skill when I'm planning a normal doff assignment?
4. Assignments under "Current Map" and "Personal" are no longer organized by commendation category. This makes it hard to look for assignments belonging to a specific category. The same applies to department heads who offer more than one category of assignment. The same also applies to the new exploration cluster tab.
5. Please color-code the chances of critical success, success, failure, and disaster.
6. The rewards and requirements often don't fit in their boxes.
8. In the old UI, even before planning an assignment, I could see the specialization requirements as well as the traits which influence critical success, success, failure, and disaster. In the new UI, I have to hover my mouse over icons in the assignment list to read the specialization requirements, and the mouseover tooltips don't show the traits.
Edit: Updated with additional points from my later posts.
"IF IT'S NOT BROKE DON"T FIX IT!" ~Every Grandparent ever
After playing with this UI for a few hours I can safely say... I will most likely stop playing STO if this is the Final product and this is the direction it's headed. It's not effective, it makes the current fun yet complex system and tries to dumb it down for a toddler, while making it unusable to a Vet. I have 200 officers and I don't want to hunt for them because you have taken away my targeted searches.
What does this assignment require lets waste time finding out.
Ok great its preloaded officers that are not the best... Cool, lets spend more time trying to find the right ones....
10 mins of scrolling later, great you have started 1 assignment; ready for more? *Clicks Exit* Nope.
2 Purples both with Crits Nets you 7% failure!!! :eek:
This goes live I'm done with STO and telling everyone Star Trek / Cryptic / Perfect World / Arc can't make a good video game to save it's life! :mad::mad:
Star Trek Video Games R.I.P.
*Turns on Star Craft II
Today I felt like a child who was just told Santa isn't real...
Has there been any change to accessing cluster doff missions from the ships bridge? I spent a lot on my freighter so I could invite friends and fleet mates to use its quick access to cluster missions, if we can no longer access these missions from the bridge my freighter is worthless.
Comments
It would be passable for a tablet I think, but since Im desktop player I find it aggravating. It makes me hate anything related to duty officers and its a problem for me because I really liked it before.
Bareel has some great suggestions to the old doff system which I would really like to see implemented instead of this unvieldy and irritating new try.
Also, I may not be a professional when it comes to computers but I cannot think that Mightybobcnc is right, Is it really so hard to make it that both tablet users and PC players can have what works for them best? Do we really have to use one UI?
Ps i really miss the succses diagramm from the old ui
"View Details" shows wrong doffs
Tab says "Plan Assignment" even when viewing completed assignments
I don't like it at all and have to wonder, because I read the forums often enough, where they thought this was an improvement or that the players wanted it...It sure feels like something we did not ask for.
Much of the new Doff system seemed incomplete and did not work that is fine and was expected.
All these percentages and chances for criticals/failures/success were just another click I avoided reading as I already know the Doff system and so have to ask..is it really necessary?
First, the basic idea is probably sound as proven by Neverwinter since that's basically where you lifted the entire thing from. That is also where most of the problems originate from.
The interface being used for the crafting window needs to be consolidated badly. To echo pretty much everyone it takes up too much space for half the information we are used to getting at a glance. When lifting systems wholesale also copying the aesthetic into a game with an entirely different aesthetic is unwise. You need to match the interface to Star Trek Online, not to Neverwinter. Best solution from my point of view would be to keep the current Doff interface and facelift it to fit your crafting system around.
Although this next problem is actually an issue through STO it is a valid complaint with the new crafting system as it stands. Your prices are uneven. In some places one item might cost 15000 dilithium while others a similar or even weaker item will cost double. This is an issue with the crafting system on Holodeck actually, it costs an ungodly amount of dilithium for an XI item through crafting when you can get a better one through the fleet or rep systems for half or less the cost. You need to start by setting an internal metric to ALL prices for certain gear types and keep it consistent. I will even help here, at this time your average Fleet XII weapon costs 8,000-9,000 dilithium and rep weapons cost around 15,000. If you go with random results you need to drop the cost per item in crafting to under fleet weapons at a minimum. Best case would be 10% or less. The place to scalp people in costs is if you include a system to change a modifier. Bottom line, if costs stay the same expect the system to flounder as bad as the current system. Remember, STO is not Neverwinter.
So, things to fix. Interface is clunky, fat, and doesn't fit with player expectations. Crafting dilithium costs are crazy assuming items remain randomized. Either allow full control over the result or drop the price. Although you could also allow PARTIAL control for a cost increase and come out ahead. It is amazingly mind numbing to produce crafting material from crating material to make crafting material that only might make the item I want, a step or two removed from the process might make the system less hostile feeling.
And so another bit of feedback for the thresher. Hope it helps someone.
the gateway is a website, it doesn't load the game client and doesn't use its gui. all it does is most likely sending commands to the game server, for which you don't need an in game gui since it already has its own gui on the website.
so why do it for the client, which will most likely never connect with the gateway directly?
it really sounds to me more like they're only trying to make it look similar to what gateway will have, even if it'll look worse in the actual game, since such design should never appear anywhere but on mobiles. not on desktop, not on consoles, not in video games.
We fight them too. Entire armies spilling out of Volkswagens.
We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending them in.
That I have to click "VIEW DETAILS" to "COLLECT REWARDS" seems to be a bug.
Because "COLLECT REWARDS" outside of "VIEW DETAILS" does NOT collect rewards, it doesn't do anything at all.
I had two security doffs with both cirt traits sitting in the roster. They perform much better then the conn doffs the system assigned, i made sure to cross check. Of course i had to know this fact by heart, because by pushing the "Select button" i no longer see what the matching stats of the long list of clunky doffs that opens up have. This will significantly increase the time for a full doffing around, not fun, no improvement quite the opposite in fact.
New DOff UI causes mac client crash to desktop 3 out of 4 times. Just for once, could you please do some mac testing.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
The reason is probably that they don't want to maintain the code for two different UIs.
My current issue with the DOFF system on Tribble is how the missions are presented. I do my DOFF missions with goals or missions in mind. AKA say I'm focusing on Diplomatic XP. The current holodeck layout works efficient for this. The Tribble system does not.
This is probably my biggest issue with the new layout. I don't have a problem with trying to make it mobile friendly though seems to be a bit crazy I get why.
If you're going to have a complete assignment button have it workable... Currently you have to view the details to complete the mission. I'm guessing this is just a general bug at the moment and wouldn't hit holodeck but needs to be said just in case.
I agree with a lot of the other sentiments expressed through out the thread as well but the break down of the mission type can't be stressed enough.
Yes the missions currently take up way too much room on the screen compared to the live version. Making the whole thing a lot more cumbersome than it needs to be.
Since I put some efforts on a side-to-side comparsion I'll just throw it in instead of trashing it:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee296/Magna-Doodle/STO-doff_comparision.jpg
Look, compare, judge yourself!
IMO devs failed once again on one of the most basic rules in design: form follows function!
Upgrading a UI should make it easier to use with all information a user finds necessary easier to see.
This does the opposite. Go back to the drawing board and hire a UX expert!
Unless the goal is to kill the DOFF system by driving people away, because if left as-is, this makes the DOFF system unplayable.
They just have to make it responsive -- use Foundation or Bootstrap or a dozen others to make the interface workable for all screen sizes. This UX is either a victim of laziness or lack of skill (or both!).
Hey
I made a video that shows the ease of use between the old UI and new UI. Simply the new one you click more to figure out something. The older less because more information at one time.
This is like Windows 8 was taking warmly because of the interface. The fact is desktops requires one type of UI and mobile another UI. The next windows will have UIs for each.
Cryptic needs to learn from that mistake. Don't mix UI.
Aala
Clicking more is bad design. It's entirely possible to have the information for PC and the gimpy mobile interface at the same time because I do it everyday as a web designer. That Cryptic is forcing the lowest common denominator (mobile users) on the majority of players (those who are actually in the game) is ridiculous.
I agree.
Sadly Cryptic feels its possible a whole desktop UI into a mobile phone or tablet UI. That doesn't make sense.
I typically don't post, but I use the DOFF System every day, that's my primary mode of play when I have limited time. These changes make it clunky, less efficient and much more time consuming to do tasks that have been easy since the introduction of the DOFF System. Please use the above as points of reference.
Not that I know of. Also latest tribble patch has absolutely no improvements for the doff UI yet. I am still holding out hope they keep the old one.
The silence is deafening.
Indeed. I'm very concerned now that what is on Tribble may go live.
This UI is screaming "tablet" all the way. I think it's part of a larger plan to monetize the Gateway. Adding the DOFF and craft to it, at least. Maybe a bunch of others features.
That's why the UI is horrible, pretty much like the latest windows. Simply because it's made for tablet/phone first, then for PC.
So I don't think they'll revert it. At best, they'll add a bunch of update according to our feedback, but I don't get my hopes high. I'm pretty sure it will stay the way it is, more or less a few things.
Money>players feedback.
And that's another reason why they don't comments much on it. They simply can't (yet). They are probably waiting to do some huge announcement and try to do a bit of noise around it. Like "New in STO, gateway feature for mobile/tablet ! Come and check it out !". Maybe add a giveaway/reduction of some sort around it, like they did for ARC.
"IF IT'S NOT BROKE DON"T FIX IT!" ~Every Grandparent ever
After playing with this UI for a few hours I can safely say... I will most likely stop playing STO if this is the Final product and this is the direction it's headed. It's not effective, it makes the current fun yet complex system and tries to dumb it down for a toddler, while making it unusable to a Vet. I have 200 officers and I don't want to hunt for them because you have taken away my targeted searches.
What does this assignment require lets waste time finding out.
Ok great its preloaded officers that are not the best... Cool, lets spend more time trying to find the right ones....
10 mins of scrolling later, great you have started 1 assignment; ready for more? *Clicks Exit* Nope.
https://twitter.com/HiddenTranny/status/484944530370605056
2 Purples both with Crits Nets you 7% failure!!! :eek:
This goes live I'm done with STO and telling everyone Star Trek / Cryptic / Perfect World / Arc can't make a good video game to save it's life! :mad::mad:
Star Trek Video Games R.I.P.
*Turns on Star Craft II
Today I felt like a child who was just told Santa isn't real...