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Feedback: New Doff UI

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  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Please see the following bug report:

    Doff can be assigned twice
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    yaaay. TWO missions. Down from about a dozen choices, at least 4 or 5 of which would be desirable.

    Give us back our empty cluster map.

    I actually saw a cluster with 5 assignments, though that's still a huge reduction in the number of available assignments.
    Waiting for a programmer ...
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  • phantomeightphantomeight Member Posts: 567 Bug Hunter
    edited June 2014
    jelly0 wrote: »
    You mean like that pain in the TRIBBLE equipment window that pops up when you are outfitting a ship.

    I know, they think its sooo cool but its only really helpful at times... Not all the time.
    join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
  • phantomeightphantomeight Member Posts: 567 Bug Hunter
    edited June 2014
    This is the first public release of 9.5. You guys are thinking doomed before anything is even finished. There are many bugs and misconceptions here. You cannot buy DOFFs on Tribble because you can't buy any in the C-Store. The UI is obviously bugged - it displays Crafting Skill instead of Success traits on the DOFF UI when Crafting Skill should only be restricted to the R&D UI.

    You are being overdramatic - We have plenty of time before 9.5 releases. There are many bugs that need to be fixed. Be patient. I don't agree with some of these new changes, but only time will tell if this update is a disaster or if it's not. Patience, this is only one update.

    I am optimistic that this is a really early build that should have never seen the light of day on a Public test server. However at the risk of alienating the devs more than the community already has, we must get it through their heads that we don't like the direction they are heading in. They need to put their feelings away and listen. In order for me to change my mind.... there has got to be a few "WOW" moments after patching Tribble over the next month.
    At this point in the software development cycle the UI is almost entirely locked in. It wouldn't be on a public beta server if it wasn't. There's maybe a month left and they don't have a contingency plan because this was though up weeks ago in a vacuum. At best we're going to get lipstick on a pig when this inevitably goes live. It's how everything on Tribble always works.

    Well, when they stand up Tribble AND Redshirt, you can expect iterations of the design, however as you mentioned they usually are minor changes vs drastic ones. I am praying that there are more drastic changes coming and that they made a really poor decision in letting us see this build. There is a lot of empty space in the design and I hope it is because parts of it are missing vs. an outright terrible design that should be nuked from orbit.
    join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    The screenshots below make me suspect that much of the code for the old two-pane UI is still in place.

    http://i.imgur.com/V6K32Fg.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/r29wwxB.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/o8CVCiK.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/QMi4Bxc.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/cGDIY2W.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/dgvC7w4.jpg

    I wonder how hard it would be to revert to the old UI. It would depend on how they managed their check-ins. Of course, they could have already changed other parts of the UI, but those changes just haven't made it to Tribble yet.

    (By the way, it always shows 0 seconds till the next shipboard update.)
    Waiting for a programmer ...
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  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited June 2014
    Doff assignments needed a revamp in terms of fixing the chances to crit/success which didn't make sense. Also better choice of best doffs. That's it. The new UI assumes everyone is playing in HD monitors and because clusters got removed, you get a lot less possible doff assignments. Heck, did they even fix the fact they removed Asylum on Earth from ESD when they changed it, I bet not.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited June 2014
    frtoaster wrote: »
    The screenshots below make me suspect that much of the code for the old two-pane UI is still in place.

    http://i.imgur.com/V6K32Fg.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/r29wwxB.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/o8CVCiK.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/QMi4Bxc.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/cGDIY2W.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/dgvC7w4.jpg

    I wonder how hard it would be to revert to the old UI. It would depend on how they managed their check-ins. Of course, they could have already changed other parts of the UI, but those changes just haven't made it to Tribble yet.

    (By the way, it always shows 0 seconds till the next shipboard update.)

    They leave plenty of old code in place. Heck it's the reason players find ways into old things they shouldn't be able to access.
  • imruinedimruined Member Posts: 1,457 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Since most of the problems are clearly spelt out in the first couple pages I'm just gonna quickly add my thoughts (though no doubt already covered by others anyway also)...


    Doff Assignments.

    The old UI was a little clunky, but it worked... The new UI does not work, period (or at least the current Tribble build is incomplete)... IMO all that needs to be done is a cleanup of the existing Doff UI...

    In the existing UI, though you can 'sort' Doffs by quality and specialisation (really just removing anything else from the list), the lists themselves are a mess... For example, Tactical Doffs are listed as just one big jumble with no specific order to it...

    What I would suggest, keep the existing UI but rearrange the Doff list, and sort the Doff list in the following order :

    1. Keep the existing 7 categories (Department Heads)

    2. EVERYTHING is sorted alphabetically first - Specialisations are grouped Alphabetically, then each is sorted by Quality, then Doff name.

    3. Group by Quality - Purple > Blue > Green > White

    4. Give players the option to 'sort by best match' or simply do this by default, so that those Doffs with the most appropriate traits are moved to the top of the list...

    Ideally, this would select the prerequisite Specialisation first, even when not 100% mandatory, eg 'Confiiscate Contraband' assignments should recommend Security Officers, as these have the highest success chance, and then sort these based on best match for traits... This then allows the player to choose other Doffs if they so wish (I find mixing certain assignments still gives 100% cumulative success, but higher critical chance etc)

    Right now the Tribble UI is dropping in 2 Purple Assault Squad officers as they have 2 matching traits, whilst my best fitting Security Officers only have 1 matching trait, yet have a much higher cumulative success as Security Officers are the prerequisite Specialisation for success... This is only compounded by there being NO indication that Security Officers are the best Specialisation fit, as already commonly mentioned...


    Crafting.

    In short, I've never really been all that enthused about crafting in STO as (beyond the Horta combat pet) there was no real incentive to spend the time and resources doing so, as there are plenty of other avenues to obtain equipment that was far superior anyway...

    With the new system requiring large sums of Dilithium (yes, 5k to 15k for one single component is a large sum when multiple components may be needed) to craft an item the bonuses of which are entirely based on having good RNG, I am completely turned me off even considering crafting...

    Prior to looking at what is on Tribble presently, I was quietly optimistic that a crafting revamp would actually encourage me to get into crafting, what I have seen so far completely turns me off doing so...

    The system itself looks reasonable, and I do like how Doffs will now play a part, however, with such exorbitant Dilithium costs to craft the higher quality components, what's the point when Reputation gear will cost only a fraction more, and you can choose the exact bonuses you want?

    I understand you want constructive feedback, and the truth is, I am being as constructive as I can given what I have seen, but these changes IMO will kill crafting and render it pointless...

    Even after what appears to be a significant increase in Dilithium costs for Reputation Gear (44k on Tribble, as opposed to 24k on live for Romulan Beams - after fleet discounts), the Dilithium cost to craft RNG bonused high level items is a massive deterrent to taking up crafting...

    How to fix this? Significantly reduce the Dilithium cost for special components, if not abolish it completely and introduce another way of obtaining these components...

    Edit - Forget to clarify what Rep Gear exactly had increased - Romulan Beam Weapons.
    The entitlement is strong in these forums...

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  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    frtoaster wrote: »
    The screenshots below make me suspect that much of the code for the old two-pane UI is still in place.

    http://i.imgur.com/V6K32Fg.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/r29wwxB.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/o8CVCiK.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/QMi4Bxc.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/cGDIY2W.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/dgvC7w4.jpg

    I wonder how hard it would be to revert to the old UI. It would depend on how they managed their check-ins. Of course, they could have already changed other parts of the UI, but those changes just haven't made it to Tribble yet.

    (By the way, it always shows 0 seconds till the next shipboard update.)

    Yeah, it's still there. The "In Progress" tab still displays projects in the old format, complete with it's nice little pie chart. Or it did day before yesterday, I haven't checked after looking at the new crafting system and doffing UI and going ewwww... I'm really, really hoping that this is very, very much a WIP. It feels like it might end up like the STF loot/dilithium removal, that took months to come back even at a lesser degree of return... meh, we'll see.

    But yeah, it really does look like the old UI is there, they just covered it up with blocky graffiti.
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  • rustychatrustychat Member Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Whatever you do Cryptic, please don't change the Doff UI to this. It's a worse design that takes up more room and returns less information. I can't see how this new UI could possibly be better than the current UI. Anything I say will just be echoing what others have already said better.

    Don't change the UI just for the sake of change, to 'revamp' the interface, or so it's wearing matching outfits with another game. If you're going to change the interface, then make it better than the current one, not significantly worse.
  • ekumulumekumulum Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I don't like the new Doff-UI. You said that the new UI will be clearer. But it is not. It is to big.
    No subdivision into the various sectors. I'm not blind.

    Then the sorting of the officers that I can select for the orders. There are no important information fo me, that I know what trait he has. This UI-change is the baddest job this year. Sorry. All this you've done a great job but this and the new crafting isn't really fine.

    You get atm only 3 of 10 points for this.
  • drowrulesupremedrowrulesupreme Member Posts: 692 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Right. In addition to everyone else's feedback (which I have to agree with) I've decided to add my own thoughts.

    New DOFF UI is, at the moment, one of the worst introductions to this game I've experienced.

    Simple missions that used to take 30-45 mins now take longer just because I don't immediately know which DOFFS to put in for the best result... in other words, I waste time before even starting the damn mission.
    Mission UI shows I need Science and shows critical success traits. It slots a BLUE DOFF with both of those traits (but failure chance is high). I change it to a Purple with both crit traits (by trial and error because new UI shows crafting skill and not the damn DOFF traits) but failure chance goes up, as does disaster chance. Why? Well, as an experienced player, I know that it is due to the now invisible Failure traits on those DOFFS. Through experimentation I find a Purple DOFF with only 1 crit trait that completely eliminates the fail and disaster chance. But only through trial and error and by clicking, scrolling, selecting and then repeating until I get the desired reduction of fail chance. Now I have to do the same again for the second DOFF required in the mission. I shudder at missions that require 4 or more DOFFs, I really do.

    Even an experienced player will struggle with the new UI, which gives so little information as to actually be harmful to your playing enjoyment and chance at success. Almost everyone in this thread is a regular contributor to DOFFing threads in the forums/in game and should not be ignored on these points. I won't rip crafting in this thread but will say that the two things combined pushed live as is, without serious improvement, and the removal of exploration clusters will not bring about Cryptic's desired results but may instead do more harm than good.
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  • lan451lan451 Member Posts: 3,386 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Frankly, I wish Cryptic would just open up the UI for modders like WoW and *** did (and other MMOs out there I'm sure).

    Edit: Age of Conan is censored? lolz
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  • mosul33mosul33 Member Posts: 836 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    The new UI is worse then the old one. Other that what most ppl said, one small thing I'll add. It just canceled one of the most usefull small add-on that the doff system got latetly: the ability to see how many required items you got in ur inventory. It was a neat feature and could save you some clicks too. Now its gone :(

    And I dont get something. Is this designed by the same art designer that did the new console art and the new forum layout? Or maybe its a Lead preference? Becouse I dont understand why small icons and small text is considered good? Its the oposite, smal icons and small text is bad, and large icons and large text is GOOD. Visually, the text got smaller with alot of backround colour empty space around it. And same goes for the icons. It seems like an awful waste of space...
  • toivatoiva Member Posts: 3,276 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    mosul33 wrote: »
    And I dont get something. Is this designed by the same art designer that did the new console art and the new forum layout? Or maybe its a Lead preference? Becouse I dont understand why small icons and small text is considered good? Its the oposite, smal icons and small text is bad, and large icons and large text is GOOD. Visually, the text got smaller with alot of backround colour empty space around it. And same goes for the icons. It seems like an awful waste of space...

    And depending on your screen resolution, that wasted space will drive you nuts.

    (example with the shoe-horned new doff selection window while there's plenty space unused in the main doff window itself: http://s27.postimg.org/m9tqlawub/screenshot_2014_06_20_02_10_36.jpg)
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  • longasclongasc Member Posts: 490
    edited June 2014
    The influence of the Crafting UI on the Doffing UI is bad.

    It is ok for crafting, could be improved but it is okay there.

    For Doffing on the other hand its very bad, traits are not visible anymore and it just makes things go way slower, require more clicks and mouse movements over large distances on the screen.

    So well, it's not really worth keeping.

    I would rather like to see the old ui with assignments in two rows and the doff pool right of it or something like that.
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Please see the following bug report:

    Always zero seconds until next shipboard update
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Doffingcomrade suggested a solution that I feel is better than my previous suggestion.
    If they really wanted to amputate and make CONVENIENT, they should have just dumped the entire mission list for the clusters into Current Sector of the corresponding Sector Block and abolished the nebula points completely. THAT would be convenient, since you wouldn't have to enter the map AND bridges would still work. It might even result in more Excelsior sales.

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=17604811&postcount=48


    However, f2pdrakron thinks this will cause the assignments from the cluster and those from the sector block to fight for position.
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    Thats impossible unless they move clusters assignments to the department heads that WILL play havoc with the system due to the "common-very rare" availability system were they start to knife fight to show up on the list.

    There was a chain starting assignment I thought I had finished that one day just shown up on Cardassian Space because there is a huge knife fight for assignments to show up due to the availability system, you can spend months looking for a assignment that simply will not show up.

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=17589431&postcount=4


    If that's the case, then increase the limit on the number of assignments, or keep separate assignment lists for the cluster and sector block, but merge them before display.
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
  • dgdolphdgdolph Member Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    My Feedback:

    It's just terrible - read this thread for details.



    My Suggestions:

    1) Revert all changes and go back to the old UI.

    2) Update success and critrates

    3) Update rewards so that they suit the current state of the game:
    - more mk xii gear
    - rep/fleet marks
    - new doffs (including new doff powers)

    4) New Assignments

    4) Exclude the new crafting from doffing
  • wombat140wombat140 Member Posts: 971 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I don't do Tribble so I've only just seen the new proposed system via a screenshot someone posted.

    HUH? They took out all the flavour text from DOffing? But that was the only fun thing about it! Now it's just another mathematical exercise to gain points. And what's the use of points if the game they'll allow you to advance in isn't actually fun? Points are a means to fun, not the other way around. Something MMORPGs tend to forget sometimes!

    Devs, just put the flavour text back, please. Losing it doesn't make the DOff window any simpler to use that I can see (it's not as if the player actually has to do anything with it), it just makes it boring. Or you might be able to make it that it could be toggled on and off.
  • sqwishedsqwished Member Posts: 1,475 Bug Hunter
    edited June 2014
    After seeing and using the new UI for myself I've come to the conclusion that its horrible, drastically over sized and gives information (Crafting skill) that's not pertinent to doffing in general. And looks like it was designed to use an old commodore 64 graphical interface. The current UI is much better than the this. Why cant we keep the old UI and have the engine and other items imported to this behind the scenes? Or use the old UI for doffing and integrate the new one solely for crafting?
    Oh, it's not broken? We can soon fix that!

  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    And sadly because they would like to move doffing to the gateway we are likely stuck with this new UI according to the Priority One podcast interview.

    But we will get sorting options... ugh.

    Ok, here we go. Things we need in the new UI we don't have.

    1) Sort available missions via type.

    2) Allow more available missions to be displayed in the window, by more atleast double preferably triple.

    3) Pie chart return instead of Bars

    4a) Intelligent auto doff selections instead of terrible ones.
    4b) Let it 'remember' previously manually selected doffs for missions.
    4c) Better sorting options when manually selecting.

    Thats all for now.
  • jelly0jelly0 Member Posts: 560 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    bareel wrote: »
    And sadly because they would like to move doffing to the gateway we are likely stuck with this new UI according to the Priority One podcast interview.

    But we will get sorting options... ugh.

    Ok, here we go. Things we need in the new UI we don't have.

    1) Sort available missions via type.

    2) Allow more available missions to be displayed in the window, by more atleast double preferably triple.

    3) Pie chart return instead of Bars

    4a) Intelligent auto doff selections instead of terrible ones.
    4b) Let it 'remember' previously manually selected doffs for missions.
    4c) Better sorting options when manually selecting.

    Thats all for now.

    So basically, the system we have now.

    The #4 additions would be nice to the current interface.
  • dragonsbrethrendragonsbrethren Member Posts: 1,854 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    wombat140 wrote: »
    I don't do Tribble so I've only just seen the new proposed system via a screenshot someone posted.

    HUH? They took out all the flavour text from DOffing? But that was the only fun thing about it! Now it's just another mathematical exercise to gain points. And what's the use of points if the game they'll allow you to advance in isn't actually fun? Points are a means to fun, not the other way around. Something MMORPGs tend to forget sometimes!

    Devs, just put the flavour text back, please. Losing it doesn't make the DOff window any simpler to use that I can see (it's not as if the player actually has to do anything with it), it just makes it boring. Or you might be able to make it that it could be toggled on and off.

    The flavor text is still there, but you have to click into the assignment to read it now (just like assigning doffs to it). There's even more space dedicated to it. This is why the mods don't want people who haven't actually played on Tribble posting feedback.
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    bareel wrote: »
    And sadly because they would like to move doffing to the gateway we are likely stuck with this new UI according to the Priority One podcast interview.

    The recent interview with Al Rivera (CaptainGeko) does seem to indicate that one of the goals was to simplify the interface so that it can be ported to Gateway in the future. Unfortunately, this will be of little benefit to me, since I don't use Gateway. Can we at least get the option for a more compact UI with more information per unit area. People have different preferences with regards to information density. Personally, I think the new UI wastes a lot of space. Of course, that's just aesthetics. I've already pointed out the missing features previously. Hopefully, these features will be added back over the next month.
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
  • artfulmerkageartfulmerkage Member Posts: 294 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Well, I somewhat retract my scathing criticism if the intention is to use Gateway.
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  • mvp333mvp333 Member Posts: 509 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    wombat140 wrote: »
    I don't do Tribble so I've only just seen the new proposed system via a screenshot someone posted.

    HUH? They took out all the flavour text from DOffing? But that was the only fun thing about it! Now it's just another mathematical exercise to gain points. And what's the use of points if the game they'll allow you to advance in isn't actually fun? Points are a means to fun, not the other way around. Something MMORPGs tend to forget sometimes!

    Devs, just put the flavour text back, please. Losing it doesn't make the DOff window any simpler to use that I can see (it's not as if the player actually has to do anything with it), it just makes it boring. Or you might be able to make it that it could be toggled on and off.

    Agreed. Also, I don't particularly love how it fills in DOffs instantly for you. I'd much rather just have them at the top of the list of DOffs to assign.
  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    'collect reward' button does not work from completed doff missions. You must first see the details, then collect the rewards.

    Still hate nearly everything about the new doff UI by the way.
  • hfmuddhfmudd Member Posts: 881 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    It's built for mobiles and tablets. There's your answer.
    Don't bother sitting down at your desktop machine to doff, don't do it while you're actually playing... that would be silly.
    Join Date: January 2011
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Oh yes it would be SO silly for me to play the game while I'm playing the game.

    Tell me again why the UI for a mobile html web-app (gateway) used on a 4-inch screen must be identical to the UI in a compiled executable binary that I can run on a 4k monitor? I call bull. All that matters is presenting the proper database and API hooks to both UIs. They can be as visually different as night and day and still have identical functionality.

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