You mean like that pain in the TRIBBLE equipment window that pops up when you are outfitting a ship.
You know, initially I didn't have any problem with the little pop-up equipment window. Then I started tinkering with characters' payloads on a regular basis leveling alts. That's when I found that you should always start with the furthest left item in any row, since otherwise the little pop-up insists on covering up the other boxes... which is, as you said, a pain in the "aft". As far as that UI element, it would be awfully nice if there were an option to shift the pop-up into the right-click menu, so that you could bring it up when needed but it didn't automatically decide to cover up inventory slots.
Similarly, it'd be awfully nice if there were a selection in the Options menu you could select/deselect in order to use either the existing doffing UI or the new doffing UI depending on your preference. I've mentioned that before elsewhere, I believe, but it should be something where you opt out of the new UI with the selection so that new players can get their consistent doff/crafting UI and current players can retain the one with better functionality. Win-win, yes?
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
While clean, the new UI's individual mission bars are FAR too large. Previously, I could look at a list of up to and over a dozen missions on my laptop's 1366x768 screen. Now I fit 4-5. The requirements box also tends to overflow its very small size, where the old one was scrollable.
Personally, I find the old one more functional and usable, with far less scrolling up and down to find assignments. If you plan to continue with the current one, either scale it down significantly or make it scalable.
I tend to agree whit you. the old one was more functional but the new one looks better.
in the old one I could filter for rarity/quality, specialization and traits to help me find the right one quickly now I need to scroll though the list.
the list puts the Boffs in order from best to worst that should help reduce scrolling. the top of most boff in that list should be the best individual boff for that spot. however selecting a group of only the best individual boffs doesn't always yield the best team performance. strangely enough you sometimes need to seek out less suited boffs to get the best team performance.
this has all to do whit the underlying issue of how your chances of success are calculated. I don't know why but somehow things that add to the chance of success takes away from the chance to crit. wile in fact they should add. it's really strange that a more capable Doff leads to a worse odds.
the best officers to use none science purple whit peaceful and/or seductive. using science boffs gives a 20% chance of mutation at best using comparable non science 22% chance of mutation. that's weird!
if none science boffs give 22% chance than Science boffs should give at least 25% chance but they don't.
If this would be fixed you can always just use the recommended boffs and this issue wouldn't even matter. the recommended boffs would be then always be the best to use. would you really want to select boffs that give worse odds?
THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS TERRA-BAD First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
I agree with most everyone here the older Doff system was better to use, understand, and get around in. It also felt like I had more control over things then I do now. I honestly don't understand why so much was put into changing something that was working and pretty well for that matter when there were so many other bugs/gliches from other patches in the past that a lot of us would have drather seen addressed.
It optimizes for critical chance now, instead of for success chance.
I was just thinking about this and now find this extremely disappointing.
Crafting has four possible outcomes. A doff assignment has four possible outcomes. When crafting increasing your chance at a purple (success) does not reduce your chance at a violet (critical success).
One of the most unintuitive and poorly designed aspects of the doff system could actually be fixed. Their could be a redeeming aspect of this new R&D system being mashed into the doff system.
Instead it appears we get a bandaid instead. Please, please, please, allow the doff system to no longer reduce success chance when increasing critical chance. Your auto select script will never be good enough with the current system.
Here's another thing: Why is the "Clear Slot" button always grayed out? The only way to clear a slot now is to assign the doff in that slot to another slot. Of course, if the assignment has only one slot, then there is no way to clear it.
So, if you actually stay with STO, let me wish you a happy scrolling doffing from this thursday onward.
Searches of needles in a haystack for doffs, the new original minigame of STO, suited for all ages of doffers.
Removing doff functionality, a bold new way of improving STO, since July 2014.
/I guess that's about the right dose of sarcasm from me right now. :rolleyes:
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Searches of needles in a haystack for doffs, the new original minigame of STO, suited for all ages of doffers.
This only really hurts those who have over 300+ doffs... I myself have nearly 500 on my main toon and I've tested it on tribble myself and found selecting doffs yourself to be an abysmal task. So pretty much anyone who has invested in additional doff slots and has maxed out the system will be affected. Pretty much everyone who has already invested zen is out of luck naturally :mad:
On holodeck I generally just look for the doff assignments that are of a slightly different shade than the others, these generally have a 50 dil ore reward or more attached, and a CXP reward typically up in the 400-600xp region, and run times of 4-20hrs.
I like them cause I can set them and forget about DOFFs until the next day.
In this new UI are those doff missions still "highlighted"?
Or being able to sort missions by time to complete, CXP/Dili/XP/EC/FM reward amounts etc would be nice.
What bugs me about this the most, aside from the deafening silence from ANY Dev on this matter - is that I am confused as to where the need for these changes came from. What is the reasoning behind it? Are they simply trying to dumb down the Doff metagame so there's more buy-in from average players by reducing those "confuising buttons and pulldowns"? Are they trying to delete pie charts to make them "more starship-like"?
There's very valuable and detailed feedback here in this thread. Ignore it at your own danger.
No one wanted or needed these changes. It just seems like change for the sake of change. As Azetbur said herself "Just because you CAN do a thing, does not mean you SHOULD do a thing."
On holodeck I generally just look for the doff assignments that are of a slightly different shade than the others, these generally have a 50 dil ore reward or more attached, and a CXP reward typically up in the 400-600xp region, and run times of 4-20hrs.
I like them cause I can set them and forget about DOFFs until the next day.
In this new UI are those doff missions still "highlighted"?
Or being able to sort missions by time to complete, CXP/Dili/XP/EC/FM reward amounts etc would be nice.
No real sorting to speak of, just really big rectangles. The plus side, for your method, is that you can just scroll and see which reward dilithium within the big rectangles; the icons are very large since the UI appears designed for a smartphone rather than a full-size computer. If you want to change the doffs the system selects for you, though, be prepared for much more clicking and manual searching than the old UI has.
It is all being done so they can put crafting into the STO Gateway app, apparently.
It is the only logical reason for making the doff UI akin to a play school level experience.
As someone with almost 400 doffs on my main, most being purple, the new search is horrendous!
You notice how the doff traits for success/crit success are highlighted in bright green, but the doff professions for success/crit success are not? That really slows down scrolling through your list, since the filters seem to have gotten lost in the shuffle... prioritizing form over function, yippee. If the new crafting system's doff requirements are designed to sell doff roster space, the doffing UI looks like it will accomplish the opposite.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
This only really hurts those who have over 300+ doffs... I myself have nearly 500 on my main toon and I've tested it on tribble myself and found selecting doffs yourself to be an abysmal task. So pretty much anyone who has invested in additional doff slots and has maxed out the system will be affected. Pretty much everyone who has already invested zen is out of luck naturally :mad:
I swear, why do the devs have to change the doff UI, it's fine the way it is.
After some 200 postings with negative feedback about the new DOFFing UI it seems it goes live on Thursday as it is.
NO thanks for giving a damn about our feedback in matters that count! :eek:
They are probably making this new UI for the gateway. That's why we have a crappy tablet UI for PC.
As for feedback, they won't listen to it, because they already planned to make this crappy UI for the gateway. Money is probably involved somewhere down the line, as they said they weren't working on the gateway because they haven't found a way to monetize it. I guess they found one.
And I think they doesn't really care if we stop doffing on PC, especially if it forces us to do it on the gateway.
At first I hated the new UI, but after playing with it, im really starting to like it. Its maybe takes up more space and involves a little more scrolling than before but its quite clear, i think its easier to assign doffs, its easier to see the rewards and how the change per percentage chance by clicking on the . how the percentage chances change visually when you select a new doff by the moving bar graph.
i know change is scary and people get used to what they like but in a few weeks i think people will come to appreciate the new system. we've had this before with other UI changes and now no one even mentions them.
Remember one of the reasons the UI was changed so that it can be used for gateway in the future which has been heavily requested. the old UI was not usable for them so if that is what they want to do, it had to be changed.
if that what it has to look like to get it to work then they are not going to perform sweeping changes that people suggest if its pushes it away from being usable on gateway, especially if those suggests are based on early feedback on seeing the system for the first time before getting used to it.
the things i would like to see are:
the ability to click on missing commodities that takes you directly to it on the replicator.
the ability to hide assignments you dont meet the requirement for via a toggle.
maybe a complete all button at the bottom of the page, to call them all in at the same time.
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
i know change is scary and people get used to what they like but in a few weeks i think people will come to appreciate the new system. we've had this before with other UI changes and now no one even mentions them.
It's not that "change is scary" it is that this UI downgrade is a perfect example of how not to design a UI. It's going to take longer to use the system --- that in itself is a major fail. If I were a design professor I'd use this as a text book example of "how not to." And the dev whose work this is should be deeply ashamed of what's being forced out tomorrow.
Well it's been a month since this 'unofficial' feedback thread was started and we have seen:
No UI improvements
No response or reasoning from any dev
I'm gonna let my wallet speak for me and not buy anything from the z-store until the UI is fixed or reverted to the old UI
Season 9.5 is gonna be nothing but a beta crafting system and an alpha doff UI... at this rate there will be no one left on my friend list or in my fleet when the next expansion hits
Even after all this time, I still HATE the new UI! :mad:
They still have:
- Mission Windows that are stupidly large and unfriendly.
- You can't assign nonspecific doffs to missions, when before you could assign any DOFF you wanted, even if it wasn't the best of results.
- No more access to cluster Department Head missions.
- I have yet to find any crafting material missions.
And Crafting is nothing but an overblown Reputation system, not a crafting system.
Only good thing about the changes is the Material Bank and the fact that Exploration Cluster missions went from incredibly boring to ridiculously easy.
We've heard you guys and we do have our UI artist and programmer working on adding filtering and sorting options back in to the new UI at the soonest possible patch. We've also drastically improved the recommendation sorting algorithm - it will always give you the best chance for a critical success that your available Duty Officers can provide. While this is not enough for those who wish to send specific sets of Duty Officers on specific missions, it does mean that many missions can now be "fire and forget", rather than requiring any additional clicks at all to select officers.
Sure, it comes a couple weeks too late (less than a day from release, to top it off), it's only mentioning one needed fix, but it's the best - the only thing - we've yet gotten.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Sure, it comes a couple weeks too late (less than a day from release, to top it off), it's only mentioning one needed fix, but it's the best - the only thing - we've yet gotten.
Another point that boggles me is that if they did "hear" us - then why did the UI update have to be done NOW?!?!? Why not wait until the fixes are in? Why was it so important that the UI was here for 9.5?!?! Could it not have waited until S. 10?
Comments
You know, initially I didn't have any problem with the little pop-up equipment window. Then I started tinkering with characters' payloads on a regular basis leveling alts. That's when I found that you should always start with the furthest left item in any row, since otherwise the little pop-up insists on covering up the other boxes... which is, as you said, a pain in the "aft". As far as that UI element, it would be awfully nice if there were an option to shift the pop-up into the right-click menu, so that you could bring it up when needed but it didn't automatically decide to cover up inventory slots.
Similarly, it'd be awfully nice if there were a selection in the Options menu you could select/deselect in order to use either the existing doffing UI or the new doffing UI depending on your preference. I've mentioned that before elsewhere, I believe, but it should be something where you opt out of the new UI with the selection so that new players can get their consistent doff/crafting UI and current players can retain the one with better functionality. Win-win, yes?
I tend to agree whit you. the old one was more functional but the new one looks better.
in the old one I could filter for rarity/quality, specialization and traits to help me find the right one quickly now I need to scroll though the list.
the list puts the Boffs in order from best to worst that should help reduce scrolling. the top of most boff in that list should be the best individual boff for that spot. however selecting a group of only the best individual boffs doesn't always yield the best team performance. strangely enough you sometimes need to seek out less suited boffs to get the best team performance.
this has all to do whit the underlying issue of how your chances of success are calculated. I don't know why but somehow things that add to the chance of success takes away from the chance to crit. wile in fact they should add. it's really strange that a more capable Doff leads to a worse odds.
look at this example.
Assignment: Raise a Risian Tropical Bird
Mutation: Peaceful, Seductive
Success: Science
the best officers to use none science purple whit peaceful and/or seductive. using science boffs gives a 20% chance of mutation at best using comparable non science 22% chance of mutation. that's weird!
if none science boffs give 22% chance than Science boffs should give at least 25% chance but they don't.
If this would be fixed you can always just use the recommended boffs and this issue wouldn't even matter. the recommended boffs would be then always be the best to use. would you really want to select boffs that give worse odds?
First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
http://imgur.com/1YIXRKX
what do you thing?
I was just thinking about this and now find this extremely disappointing.
Crafting has four possible outcomes. A doff assignment has four possible outcomes. When crafting increasing your chance at a purple (success) does not reduce your chance at a violet (critical success).
One of the most unintuitive and poorly designed aspects of the doff system could actually be fixed. Their could be a redeeming aspect of this new R&D system being mashed into the doff system.
Instead it appears we get a bandaid instead. Please, please, please, allow the doff system to no longer reduce success chance when increasing critical chance. Your auto select script will never be good enough with the current system.
http://i.imgur.com/AcTFdlo.jpg
https://twitter.com/PWECaptainSmirk/status/489214375568216064
Inefficient and blocky UIs FTW!!!!
For those of us who have more than the normal compliment of Doff's this new UI is beyond insane.
Am I seriously expected to scroll through an entire list of 400 doffs just to pick one.
Where are the filters..? This seriously needs filters.
Searches of needles in a haystack for doffs, the new original minigame of STO, suited for all ages of doffers.
Removing doff functionality, a bold new way of improving STO, since July 2014.
/I guess that's about the right dose of sarcasm from me right now. :rolleyes:
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
This only really hurts those who have over 300+ doffs... I myself have nearly 500 on my main toon and I've tested it on tribble myself and found selecting doffs yourself to be an abysmal task. So pretty much anyone who has invested in additional doff slots and has maxed out the system will be affected. Pretty much everyone who has already invested zen is out of luck naturally :mad:
I like them cause I can set them and forget about DOFFs until the next day.
In this new UI are those doff missions still "highlighted"?
Or being able to sort missions by time to complete, CXP/Dili/XP/EC/FM reward amounts etc would be nice.
It is all being done so they can put crafting into the STO Gateway app, apparently.
It is the only logical reason for making the doff UI akin to a play school level experience.
As someone with almost 400 doffs on my main, most being purple, the new search is horrendous!
No real sorting to speak of, just really big rectangles. The plus side, for your method, is that you can just scroll and see which reward dilithium within the big rectangles; the icons are very large since the UI appears designed for a smartphone rather than a full-size computer. If you want to change the doffs the system selects for you, though, be prepared for much more clicking and manual searching than the old UI has.
You notice how the doff traits for success/crit success are highlighted in bright green, but the doff professions for success/crit success are not? That really slows down scrolling through your list, since the filters seem to have gotten lost in the shuffle... prioritizing form over function, yippee. If the new crafting system's doff requirements are designed to sell doff roster space, the doffing UI looks like it will accomplish the opposite.
I swear, why do the devs have to change the doff UI, it's fine the way it is.
The feed back is right here, its going to get released on thrusday regardless. GG cryptic...oh about that gateway integration where is it?
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
NO thanks for giving a damn about our feedback in matters that count! :eek:
As for feedback, they won't listen to it, because they already planned to make this crappy UI for the gateway. Money is probably involved somewhere down the line, as they said they weren't working on the gateway because they haven't found a way to monetize it. I guess they found one.
And I think they doesn't really care if we stop doffing on PC, especially if it forces us to do it on the gateway.
i know change is scary and people get used to what they like but in a few weeks i think people will come to appreciate the new system. we've had this before with other UI changes and now no one even mentions them.
Remember one of the reasons the UI was changed so that it can be used for gateway in the future which has been heavily requested. the old UI was not usable for them so if that is what they want to do, it had to be changed.
if that what it has to look like to get it to work then they are not going to perform sweeping changes that people suggest if its pushes it away from being usable on gateway, especially if those suggests are based on early feedback on seeing the system for the first time before getting used to it.
the things i would like to see are:
the ability to click on missing commodities that takes you directly to it on the replicator.
the ability to hide assignments you dont meet the requirement for via a toggle.
maybe a complete all button at the bottom of the page, to call them all in at the same time.
Long time no see
To me personally it's not really about change, change is necessary if you want to improve.
The question I have is; what has been changed underneath? Would it create bugs in other systems? What's been nerfed and/or capped?
There, my $0.02 .
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
It's not that "change is scary" it is that this UI downgrade is a perfect example of how not to design a UI. It's going to take longer to use the system --- that in itself is a major fail. If I were a design professor I'd use this as a text book example of "how not to." And the dev whose work this is should be deeply ashamed of what's being forced out tomorrow.
RIP DOFFing
No UI improvements
No response or reasoning from any dev
I'm gonna let my wallet speak for me and not buy anything from the z-store until the UI is fixed or reverted to the old UI
Season 9.5 is gonna be nothing but a beta crafting system and an alpha doff UI... at this rate there will be no one left on my friend list or in my fleet when the next expansion hits
Changing the interface sucks, yes. but the worst part IS THAT WE LOSE FUNCTIONALITY via SORTING OPTIONS.
Totally unacceptable.
They still have:
- Mission Windows that are stupidly large and unfriendly.
- You can't assign nonspecific doffs to missions, when before you could assign any DOFF you wanted, even if it wasn't the best of results.
- No more access to cluster Department Head missions.
- I have yet to find any crafting material missions.
And Crafting is nothing but an overblown Reputation system, not a crafting system.
Only good thing about the changes is the Material Bank and the fact that Exploration Cluster missions went from incredibly boring to ridiculously easy.
Cryptic, LEAVE THE UI A-LONE!
Sure, it comes a couple weeks too late (less than a day from release, to top it off), it's only mentioning one needed fix, but it's the best - the only thing - we've yet gotten.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Another point that boggles me is that if they did "hear" us - then why did the UI update have to be done NOW?!?!? Why not wait until the fixes are in? Why was it so important that the UI was here for 9.5?!?! Could it not have waited until S. 10?
Whats the point of a bloody test server if you dont listen to anyone.