I was running some ground combat with a Bajoran toon yesterday and I equipped him with the Bajoran Phaser rifle and Bajoran phaser pistol from the DS9 pack so that he would "look the part."
It didn't take long for me to realize those weapons are horribly underpowered compared to most of the Mk XII purple gear in the game. Then it dawned on me the same problem exists with the weapons in the game modeled after TOS weapons: they are supposed to level with the player but when you hit level 50 they are still weak compared to other mk XII ground weapons.
Now, you can make the argument that TOS weapons are old and that's why they are weaker and Bajorans are less developed so their weapons are weaker, but I don't care.
I play this game because it's STAR TREK online and not "Let's make up some cool-looking weapon that looks like something from Mass Effect" Online. I want to use the weapons I saw in my favorite Star Trek shows and there's no reason that those iconic weapons should be underpowered at level 50 if they are supposed to "level with the character" in the game.
Let's buff the damage from the iconic weapons from the trek shows rather than force players to use weapons that have never existed in the Trek universe until STO came along.
Responding to the part in bold:
Apparently, you don't realize that the Mk XI versions of the Original Series Type Two and Three are among the best phaser small arms in the game, just short of the Fleet and MACO offerings.
I'm with you on that one. Those weapons need to be brought up to be on the level with the rest of the high-end weapons in STO. After all, they're items that come with expensive bundle purchases from the C-Store.
I would have no issue with improved versions. But it is a fact, with a rare exception here and there, that most C-Store stuff isn't the "cream of the crop". And nor should it be. You can't have have everything from the C-Store matching, or exceeding, the "high end" stuff (which, in this game, would be Reputation and Fleet gear). There would be no real incentive to work (i.e. grind) for the good stuff for those that can just whip out a credit card.
If it was, then you would have further issues with the whole "pay to win" controversy among the community.
I'm with you. In addition, I would like to see all the weapon models we know from the shows to replace the ugly stock weapons we have right now.
Type 1 phaser <-- We need this in it's TNG variant and maybe a more modern 25th variant
Type 2 phaser <-- We need all canon versions of those next to the TOS ones. That means TMP/TWOK, TNG early, TNG late and the TNG movies. And no, the default phaser and the stun pistols in game look nothing like those.
Type 3 phaser <-- We need all canon variants from this next to the TOS one. Especially the TNG one (first image in the link) and the other variants. The default "sniper" phaser rifle is some kind of mock-up of it's TNG movie version but all the higher tiers look nothing like any of those.
Compression phaser file <-- We need this
Klingon hand-held disruptors <-- notice the abscence of all the blades and pointy things on the canon designs?
Disruptor rifles of various origins <-- again, nothing in-game looks like those
We need those and they need to be endgame weapons. And if they become Lobi unlocks I'll come over and TRIBBLE right in front of Cryptic's door *angrygrunt*
I like some of these ideas. But you have it wrong when it comes to the regulation Starfleet phaser small arms in the game.
Anybody can look at them, from the "standard issue" mook fare, all the way up to the Mk XIIs, and tell that they are evolutionary developments from the canon 24th Century phaser offerings. Which, in my opinion, is just fine.
But still, I agree that they should bring on some of the classics.
I want to take my Kentucky Long Rifle in, and have it updated to a modern weapon.
This, and take my Model T and refit it to run in the Indy 500.
Technically, if you own a production replica, custom hand crafted reproduction, or "build your own" kit of the Kentucky Long Rifle, you do have a modern muzzle loading firearm.
As for the Model T, you are SOL. And it's a poor analogy, anyway.
Also, could we PLEASE make the Bajoran weapons like the TOS weapons so that each time you click on the pack you get the weapons, I have an all Bajoran crew in Bajoran uniforms I'd like to equip with Bajoran rifles.
Like the Romulan Alliance System? Of course you do, it sounds fine to you because you aren't Romulans, you're FED or KDF who are going to make a Romulan alt, it makes a HUGE difference in perspective.
TOS & films generally took place between 2263-2293. That's 117 years ago.
TNG & films generally took place between 2364-2379. That's 31 years ago.
DS9 generally took place between 2369-2375. That's 35 years ago.
VOY generally took place between 2371-2378. That's 32 years ago.
ENT generally took pace between 2151-2161. That's 249 years ago.
This is Star Trek Online, but it is not TOS Online - it's not TNG Online - it's not DS9 Online - it's not VOY Online - it's not ENT Online. It's Star Trek Online...it's 2410...deal with it.
But why on earth would anyone want to play a Star Trek game that looks nothing like the shows and movies? I certainly don't play this game for Cryptic's own, roughly-based-on-designs that clearly belong more to a Mass Effect fangame than a Star Trek game.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
yea dunno where hes going with this unless hes asking for rep version of retro phasers. because short of rep gear there the best free phasers in the game.
TOS & films generally took place between 2263-2293. That's 117 years ago.
TNG & films generally took place between 2364-2379. That's 31 years ago.
DS9 generally took place between 2369-2375. That's 35 years ago.
VOY generally took place between 2371-2378. That's 32 years ago.
ENT generally took pace between 2151-2161. That's 249 years ago.
This is Star Trek Online, but it is not TOS Online - it's not TNG Online - it's not DS9 Online - it's not VOY Online - it's not ENT Online. It's Star Trek Online...it's 2410...deal with it.
edit: The "deal with it" may come off as harsh to some, but in the end - it is what it is. This isn't the first thread nor first post on the matter wishing that STO was more like a particular series or movie, but the game is not set during any such period - so it doesn't make sense for it to do that. It's moved forward - it's moving Trek forward. Folks will get into that it's not moving Trek Canon forward, etc, etc, etc - but they can't play Trek Canon - so it's a moot argument. Heck, I'd love a TOS Online or even a TOS-era Movie Online game - without all the garbage that came later; but it's not that - it's not set during that time period. I had to accept it, I had to deal with it...simple as that.
But why on earth would anyone want to play a Star Trek game that looks nothing like the shows and movies?
The same reason some folks decided to watch TNG.
The same reason some folks decided to watch DS9.
The same reason some folks decided to watch VOY.
The same reason some folks decided to watch ENT.
And sure, some folks won't like what STO is doing and some won't play...
Just like some folks decided not to watch TNG.
Just like some folks decided not to watch DS9.
Just like some folks decided not to watch VOY.
Just like some folks decided not to watch ENT.
STO's for the Star Trek fan...not the TOS fan, not the DS9 fan, not the VOY fan, not the ENT fan - for all the fans - the Star Trek fans.
The same reason some folks decided to watch TNG.
The same reason some folks decided to watch DS9.
The same reason some folks decided to watch VOY.
The same reason some folks decided to watch ENT.
And sure, some folks won't like what STO is doing and some won't play...
Just like some folks decided not to watch TNG.
Just like some folks decided not to watch DS9.
Just like some folks decided not to watch VOY.
Just like some folks decided not to watch ENT.
STO's for the Star Trek fan...not the TOS fan, not the DS9 fan, not the VOY fan, not the ENT fan - for all the fans - the Star Trek fans.
ENT bad example as it got canned and like you said star trek is for all this should be the main reason every thing from the show/movies should be in the game now it being top level stuff is another story
OK how bout some of the Lobi store weapons, like the new wrist laser, only rare. Elachi pistol, only rare, voth AP cannon which is still quite hard hitting only rare.
Upgraded dominion ground set, only rare it's a mkII, or the upgraded dominion pistol, only rare.
Cost lobi crystals, but only rare?
Sorry I can see why some are against some of the c-store stuff not going to lvl XII and not being very rare, but the Lobi store weapons, come on you can't sit there and tell me that those cannot be mk XII very rare grade.
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ENT bad example as it got canned and like you said star trek is for all this should be the main reason every thing from the show/movies should be in the game now it being top level stuff is another story
Not every race, technology, ship, person from TOS was in TNG.
Not every race, technology, ship, person from from TNG was in DS9.
etc.
Or the other way round:
In TOS, there weren't any Bajorans. Or a Dominion.
So aren't they Trek?
Reproducing things just to be self-referential isn't good. It's just that... self-referential.
Not every race, technology, ship, person from TOS was in TNG.
Not every race, technology, ship, person from from TNG was in DS9.
etc.
Or the other way round:
In TOS, there weren't any Bajorans. Or a Dominion.
So aren't they Trek?
Reproducing things just to be self-referential isn't good. It's just that... self-referential.
im not saying have every species playable every plot ability seen in out all of star trek add to the game... but show/movies hand weapons would not be a huge massive undertaking at least In my opinion and this game is set after tng so Bajorans Dominion have been seen
and im going to tell you straight up i would not be playing this game at all if nothing from show/movies was not in this game
im not saying have every species playable every plot ability seen in out all of star trek add to the game... but show/movies hand weapons would not be a huge massive undertaking at least In my opinion and this game is set after tng so Bajorans Dominion have been seen
and im going to tell you straight up i would not be playing this game at all if nothing from show/movies was not in this game
But 2410 weapons haven't been seen in TNG/DS9/Voy.
Because... 2410.
That doesn't mean they aren't Trek. They are just new. Because that's the given scenario.
Weapons from older eras are, too, in the game.
I just can't follow people saying "this is not Trek" because
1. it has new stuff never seen before
2. old stuff we know from the series isn't top notch anymore
But 2410 weapons haven't been seen in TNG/DS9/Voy.
Because... 2410.
That doesn't mean they aren't Trek. They are just new. Because that's the given scenario.
Weapons from older eras are, too, in the game.
I just can't follow people saying "this is not Trek" because
1. it has new stuff never seen before
2. old stuff we know from the series isn't top notch anymore
as to why i said it being top level is another story
When was the Colt .45 invented? 1903 or something, right? To fight the Moro tribesmen in the Philippines.
100+ years later, it's still a perfectly serviceable (and instantly recognizable/iconic) firearm.
1911...and uh...the Colt .45 from 1911 isn't the same gun as the Colt .45 a hundred years later. Might bare the same name, but then again - Ford F150's roll off the assembly line year after year with the same name too...
1911...and uh...the Colt .45 from 1911 isn't the same gun as the Colt .45 a hundred years later. Might bare the same name, but then again - Ford F150's roll off the assembly line year after year with the same name too...
well fans some how got it back for one more season then it was going to have if i recall right
And it still didn't last as long as Enterprise, which also didn't have to be brought back from the dead.
In fact, if you want to point to episode count/how long the series ran and claim it as a measure of quality, then obviously the only series worse than TOS was TAS, Enterprise outlasted TOS, and everything else stomped TOS, TAS, and Enterprise.
When was the Colt .45 invented? 1903 or something, right? To fight the Moro tribesmen in the Philippines.
100+ years later, it's still a perfectly serviceable (and instantly recognizable/iconic) firearm.
Depends which "Colt .45" you mean. The .45 Single Action Army revolver came out in 1873. The semi-automatic you're almost undoubtedly referring to is the Colt M1911, which came out in (I know, right? ) 1911.
1911...and uh...the Colt .45 from 1911 isn't the same gun as the Colt .45 a hundred years later. Might bare the same name, but then again - Ford F150's roll off the assembly line year after year with the same name too...
Whatever may have changed about them since the 1911 model, they still look pretty much the same, looking at online pictures anyhow, which in the context of this discussion would support the idea of upgrading at the very least the TNG-era weapons whilst retaining their recognizable appearances.
And it still didn't last as long as Enterprise, which also didn't have to be brought back from the dead.
In fact, if you want to point to episode count/how long the series ran and claim it as a measure of quality, then obviously the only series worse than TOS was TAS, Enterprise outlasted TOS, and everything else stomped TOS, TAS, and Enterprise.
i see TOS as the foundation the one that started it all but i should say imo its TNG DS9 VOY that took off with it ENT is what killed it along with Star Trek Nemesis
Sad part is, most of the lobi weapons are only rare at best. You think it's sad that the c-store weapons are low, try the lobi weapons that are outclassed already.
Well they did buff the temporal rifle recently and some of the last major additions haven't been light weights (voth minigun and undine wrist lance, the latter of which is probably my new favorite weapon). There's definitely been a lack of attention paid to where pricy special weapons fit into the current scale but it seems that's changing.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
For those that say we can't have vr versions of the canon weapons I say poppycock. Just because it's old does not mean it is inferior or ineffective to new, modern weapons. If they had a Remington M870 or M203 in game, I could go to Defera Invasion Zone and ask the Borg why they can't adapt to ancient technology as I dismember every drooling drone in the area. Infact Picard used a Tommy Gun on the Borg. 500 YO weapons laying waste to the "most feared" race in the galaxy.
The thing is, is it's an ideal way for Cryptic to make more money on the game, especially if they add ship parts.
i see TOS as the foundation the one that started it all but i should say imo its TNG DS9 VOY that took off with it ENT is what killed it along with Star Trek Nemesis
also im not trying to trash TOS in any way
All well and good, but it doesn't change the simple fact that TOS did get cancelled just like ENT. Except ENT got much farther along before the studio gave up on it.
I also suspect it's less true that "ENT killed it" than that after Star Trek: [subtitle] being on nonstop for 18 years, with multiple series on at once most of that time, simple burnout killed it. (TNG went on-air in 1987, and there was at least one Star Trek series on from then until 2005 when ENT got the axe.)
When was the Colt .45 invented? 1903 or something, right? To fight the Moro tribesmen in the Philippines.
100+ years later, it's still a perfectly serviceable (and instantly recognizable/iconic) firearm.
John Moses Browning officially patented his short recoil operating system in 1899. The Colt Model 1900 was introduced shortly afterwards, chambered in .38 ACP (the ancestor of the .38 Super cartridge). The .45 ACP was first commercially available in the Colt Model 1905, but wasn't officially adopted by the U.S. Armed Forces until the Model 1911.
During the Moro uprisings, many who carried sidearms into the field griped about the .38 Long Colt's performance (Never mind the fact that the .30-40 Krag rifle cartridge also failed to stop in many instances as well). So, many opted to carry the old Colt M1873 Single Action Army, or Remington Model 1875 Army, as their sidearm of choice. Both were chambered in the .45 Colt round (also colloquially known as the ".45 Long Colt", to distinguish it from the .45 Automatic Colt Pistol cartridge).
And yes, the 1911 (along with the Browning High Power) is the finest service pistol made by the hand of man. I own several, and love them.
Whatever may have changed about them since the 1911 model, they still look pretty much the same, looking at online pictures anyhow, which in the context of this discussion would support the idea of upgrading at the very least the TNG-era weapons whilst retaining their recognizable appearances.
Off Topic - Nothing changed on the M1911A1 in it's 103 year existence. The only reason it's no longer used by the U.S. military's conventional forces is because the other members of NATO Bit***d about NATO only adopting American calibers (specifically the 7.62 (.30 cal) and 5.56). Too Bad the .45 outclasses the 9mm in every aspect...
On Topic - You're right but every old canon weapon should be upgraded IMHO.
Comments
Responding to the part in bold:
Apparently, you don't realize that the Mk XI versions of the Original Series Type Two and Three are among the best phaser small arms in the game, just short of the Fleet and MACO offerings.
@shpoks:
I would have no issue with improved versions. But it is a fact, with a rare exception here and there, that most C-Store stuff isn't the "cream of the crop". And nor should it be. You can't have have everything from the C-Store matching, or exceeding, the "high end" stuff (which, in this game, would be Reputation and Fleet gear). There would be no real incentive to work (i.e. grind) for the good stuff for those that can just whip out a credit card.
If it was, then you would have further issues with the whole "pay to win" controversy among the community.
@angrytarg:
I like some of these ideas. But you have it wrong when it comes to the regulation Starfleet phaser small arms in the game.
Anybody can look at them, from the "standard issue" mook fare, all the way up to the Mk XIIs, and tell that they are evolutionary developments from the canon 24th Century phaser offerings. Which, in my opinion, is just fine.
But still, I agree that they should bring on some of the classics.
@oldkirkfan:
Technically, if you own a production replica, custom hand crafted reproduction, or "build your own" kit of the Kentucky Long Rifle, you do have a modern muzzle loading firearm.
As for the Model T, you are SOL. And it's a poor analogy, anyway.
I would do dirty things to get Cryptic to recycle that model for an endgame weapon...
But why on earth would anyone want to play a Star Trek game that looks nothing like the shows and movies? I certainly don't play this game for Cryptic's own, roughly-based-on-designs that clearly belong more to a Mass Effect fangame than a Star Trek game.
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AK47. :cool:
The same reason some folks decided to watch TNG.
The same reason some folks decided to watch DS9.
The same reason some folks decided to watch VOY.
The same reason some folks decided to watch ENT.
And sure, some folks won't like what STO is doing and some won't play...
Just like some folks decided not to watch TNG.
Just like some folks decided not to watch DS9.
Just like some folks decided not to watch VOY.
Just like some folks decided not to watch ENT.
STO's for the Star Trek fan...not the TOS fan, not the DS9 fan, not the VOY fan, not the ENT fan - for all the fans - the Star Trek fans.
ENT bad example as it got canned
system Lord Baal is dead
Upgraded dominion ground set, only rare it's a mkII, or the upgraded dominion pistol, only rare.
Cost lobi crystals, but only rare?
Sorry I can see why some are against some of the c-store stuff not going to lvl XII and not being very rare, but the Lobi store weapons, come on you can't sit there and tell me that those cannot be mk XII very rare grade.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Not every race, technology, ship, person from TOS was in TNG.
Not every race, technology, ship, person from from TNG was in DS9.
etc.
Or the other way round:
In TOS, there weren't any Bajorans. Or a Dominion.
So aren't they Trek?
Reproducing things just to be self-referential isn't good. It's just that... self-referential.
im not saying have every species playable every plot ability seen in out all of star trek add to the game... but show/movies hand weapons would not be a huge massive undertaking at least In my opinion and this game is set after tng so Bajorans Dominion have been seen
and im going to tell you straight up i would not be playing this game at all if nothing from show/movies was not in this game
system Lord Baal is dead
But 2410 weapons haven't been seen in TNG/DS9/Voy.
Because... 2410.
That doesn't mean they aren't Trek. They are just new. Because that's the given scenario.
Weapons from older eras are, too, in the game.
I just can't follow people saying "this is not Trek" because
1. it has new stuff never seen before
2. old stuff we know from the series isn't top notch anymore
as to why i said it being top level is another story
system Lord Baal is dead
Yep, just like TOS- which had an even shorter run than Enterprise. :rolleyes:
well fans some how got it back for one more season then it was going to have if i recall right
system Lord Baal is dead
Well yeah.
But you still see my problem. I just quoted you for convenience to make a bigger point.
When was the Colt .45 invented? 1903 or something, right? To fight the Moro tribesmen in the Philippines.
100+ years later, it's still a perfectly serviceable (and instantly recognizable/iconic) firearm.
1911...and uh...the Colt .45 from 1911 isn't the same gun as the Colt .45 a hundred years later. Might bare the same name, but then again - Ford F150's roll off the assembly line year after year with the same name too...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewehr_98
And it still didn't last as long as Enterprise, which also didn't have to be brought back from the dead.
In fact, if you want to point to episode count/how long the series ran and claim it as a measure of quality, then obviously the only series worse than TOS was TAS, Enterprise outlasted TOS, and everything else stomped TOS, TAS, and Enterprise.
Depends which "Colt .45" you mean. The .45 Single Action Army revolver came out in 1873. The semi-automatic you're almost undoubtedly referring to is the Colt M1911, which came out in (I know, right?
Whatever may have changed about them since the 1911 model, they still look pretty much the same, looking at online pictures anyhow, which in the context of this discussion would support the idea of upgrading at the very least the TNG-era weapons whilst retaining their recognizable appearances.
i see TOS as the foundation the one that started it all but i should say imo its TNG DS9 VOY that took off with it ENT is what killed it along with Star Trek Nemesis
also im not trying to trash TOS in any way
system Lord Baal is dead
The new M 98, M 03, M 12...are not the same as the original guns. They're also produced as hunting rifles rather than combat arms.
Check out some of what's going on today:
http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/guns-2000-2009.asp
www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/guns-2010-2019.asp
Well they did buff the temporal rifle recently and some of the last major additions haven't been light weights (voth minigun and undine wrist lance, the latter of which is probably my new favorite weapon). There's definitely been a lack of attention paid to where pricy special weapons fit into the current scale but it seems that's changing.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
The thing is, is it's an ideal way for Cryptic to make more money on the game, especially if they add ship parts.
All well and good, but it doesn't change the simple fact that TOS did get cancelled just like ENT. Except ENT got much farther along before the studio gave up on it.
I also suspect it's less true that "ENT killed it" than that after Star Trek: [subtitle] being on nonstop for 18 years, with multiple series on at once most of that time, simple burnout killed it. (TNG went on-air in 1987, and there was at least one Star Trek series on from then until 2005 when ENT got the axe.)
John Moses Browning officially patented his short recoil operating system in 1899. The Colt Model 1900 was introduced shortly afterwards, chambered in .38 ACP (the ancestor of the .38 Super cartridge). The .45 ACP was first commercially available in the Colt Model 1905, but wasn't officially adopted by the U.S. Armed Forces until the Model 1911.
During the Moro uprisings, many who carried sidearms into the field griped about the .38 Long Colt's performance (Never mind the fact that the .30-40 Krag rifle cartridge also failed to stop in many instances as well). So, many opted to carry the old Colt M1873 Single Action Army, or Remington Model 1875 Army, as their sidearm of choice. Both were chambered in the .45 Colt round (also colloquially known as the ".45 Long Colt", to distinguish it from the .45 Automatic Colt Pistol cartridge).
And yes, the 1911 (along with the Browning High Power) is the finest service pistol made by the hand of man. I own several, and love them.
Off Topic - Nothing changed on the M1911A1 in it's 103 year existence. The only reason it's no longer used by the U.S. military's conventional forces is because the other members of NATO Bit***d about NATO only adopting American calibers (specifically the 7.62 (.30 cal) and 5.56). Too Bad the .45 outclasses the 9mm in every aspect...
On Topic - You're right but every old canon weapon should be upgraded IMHO.