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What is your beef with the Galaxy Cryptic?

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    warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Yeah, Starfleet tech is good, but it's not as overpowering as some people around here think it should be. Sooooo many times throughout Star Trek, through the different shows and movies, that Starfleet encountered people who were of comparable technology as them. It actually forced them to act more polite when they realized someone could actually cause serious harm to them.
    XzRTofz.gif
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    angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Yeah, Starfleet tech is good, but it's not as overpowering as some people around here think it should be. Sooooo many times throughout Star Trek, through the different shows and movies, that Starfleet encountered people who were of comparable technology as them. It actually forced them to act more polite when they realized someone could actually cause serious harm to them.

    This is actually a good point, though I don't think anyone of the regulars in here claim that everything about Starfleet is superior. But you are right, Starfleet/the UFP is just one of the "conventional" people in the Galaxy along with the Romulans, Klingons etc. - but the universe is full of semi-omnipotent beings that would just walk over even the ("real") Borg and there are quite a few minor people that could threaten the UFP if only they had the numbers. But this is also part of TNGs message - Q literally had to pull the UFP off their high horse. Still, the Galaxy as Starfleet's flagship was respected and maybe even feared throughout all the conventional forces of the quadrant, the Klingons even built their own version of it (Negh'Var) and the Romulans' dreaded warbird was completely dependent on ambush tactics.

    That still doesn't mean a Galaxy would plow through everything. I personally think, once again, that the ship with it's immense firepower is comparable to a merchantman fromt he age of sail. It's massively loaded with weapons due to it's task and precious cargo but lacks the finesse of a dedicated battlecruiser. That's why you'd never built two dozen Galaxies and send them into battle but only few supported by lighter vessels to compensate for their weakpoints.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
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    stardestroyer001stardestroyer001 Member Posts: 2,615 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    *rubs hands together*

    Man, it's been a while since Polaronbeam was here. Time to spin up the ol' logic gears.
    stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
    Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
    My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
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    silverashes1silverashes1 Member Posts: 192 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    *rubs hands together*

    Man, it's been a while since Polaronbeam was here. Time to spin up the ol' logic gears.

    wait.... whats logic?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    its things like this patrol refit that sort of set a precedent on left field fixes to bad or obsolete ships, that give me just the tiniest amount of hope for some refit hotfix to the galaxy R. especially in the days of double LTC stations being the new normal :rolleyes:
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    jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited May 2014
    its things like this patrol refit that sort of set a precedent on left field fixes to bad or obsolete ships, that give me just the tiniest amount of hope for some refit hotfix to the galaxy R. especially in the days of double LTC stations being the new normal :rolleyes:


    I agree

    A Galaxy with a turn rate of 6 consoles like 3/4/4 and the boff layout like this new escort is what a lot of folks want

    I bet it would outsell the escort as well

    2 Tac boff options are so boring it makes you want to puke
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
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    dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    in the spirit of the patrol refit station setup, presenting the galaxy retrorefit!

    COM eng
    LTC sci
    LTC uni
    LT tac

    and when separated

    COM eng
    LT sci
    LTC uni
    LTC tac

    4/3/3 consoles

    and we all played happily ever after
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    jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited May 2014
    wait

    The Deflector shot..................must have
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
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    shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    in the spirit of the patrol refit station setup, presenting the galaxy retrorefit!

    COM eng
    LTC sci
    LTC uni
    LT tac

    and when separated

    COM eng
    LT sci
    LTC uni
    LTC tac

    4/3/3 consoles

    and we all played happily ever after

    And then this thread became filled with positive energy, a thread of joy and fun where Galaxy Capains discuss their endeavors and organize Galaxy teams for STFs and praise the devs, for a job well done!

    And I'm also inclined to say: "and then we all woke up". Sorry for that. :(
    HQroeLu.jpg
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    angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I like the proposal. And the new escort thingy shows us that Cryptic CAN and WILL just remove old ships. So why not kick the current fleet Galaxy-R out of the game, introduce the advanced exploration cruiser refit based on the venture type (needs Gal-R for the Gal skin) with mechanics like DDIS described them and make a fleet version based on that. Sounds good?
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
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    shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Sounds good?

    Everything given and taken, sounds too good to be true. :(
    HQroeLu.jpg
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    paxdawnpaxdawn Member Posts: 767 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Why would they need to change the focus of the Galaxy R.

    It was made to be Eng console/ENg boff based ship not a DPS ship or SCI/Tac ship. The DPS version of the Galaxy is the Dreadnought Cruiser. If you want a Sci support cruiser, there is the Odyssey/Support/star cruiser to choose from.

    There is already 4 tac console of Galaxy which is the Fleet Dreadnought. I dont know why people still complain about the Galaxy when they already got a 4 tac console Galaxy version.

    What happens now with those who bought both the Fleet Galaxy R and Galaxy R for their Eng consoles? It would be unfair for them since they have limited options for the ENG fed ship, when Tac and Sci players have more options.

    Not everyone wants a DPS ship. There are more 5k dps and below build/players there than 10k and above dps players.

    If anyone is flying the Fleet Galaxy R/Galaxy R like a Assault Cruiser/Dreadnought/Avenger or an escort/sci ship/sci support cruiser, then the player is at fault. The logic is the same as forcing a Risian corvette hull tank like an Obelisk or a Voth Bulwark and complaining that the Risian corvette does not hull tank like the Obelisk/Bulwark.
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    angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    paxdawn wrote: »
    Why would they need to change the focus of the Galaxy R.

    It was made to be Eng console/ENg boff based ship not a DPS ship or SCI/Tac ship. The DPS version of the Galaxy is the Dreadnought Cruiser. If you want a Sci support cruiser, there is the Odyssey/Support/star cruiser to choose from.

    There is already 4 tac console of Galaxy which is the Fleet Dreadnought. I dont know why people still complain about the Galaxy when they already got a 4 tac console Galaxy version.

    What happens now with those who bought both the Fleet Galaxy R and Galaxy R for their Eng consoles? It would be unfair for them since they have limited options for the ENG fed ship, when Tac and Sci players have more options.

    Not everyone wants a DPS ship. There are more 5k dps and below build/players there than 10k and above dps players.

    If anyone is flying the Fleet Galaxy R/Galaxy R like a Assault Cruiser/Dreadnought/Avenger or an escort/sci ship/sci support cruiser, then the player is at fault. The logic is the same as forcing a Risian corvette hull tank like an Obelisk or a Voth Bulwark and complaining that the Risian corvette does not hull tank like the Obelisk/Bulwark.

    Because with the release of the original Explorer Refit, Cryptic gave a sci-heavy layout to one of it's variants. This option is not available anymore at endgame. But I want to play this ship at endgame, not the eng-heavy version. This alone is one reason to offer it - it's not "our" fault that even Cryptic decided that their original ideas were bad (this is true to all refits of the "big three")

    @shpoks: *whimpers sadly* :(
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
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    orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    edalgo wrote: »
    The only way the Galaxy will be upgraded seriously is if the player base stop using it! That's right. If you have it switch to a different ship. Use the free Sovereign or any other cruiser. We know any other cruiser is better anyway. Let the Galaxy rust in your shipyard.
    Guess it's time to make the Galaxy my main ship then. >:3
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    thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    What the Galaxy needs is a Battle-Cloak. Then it will be loved by all. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
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    shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    What the Galaxy needs is a Battle-Cloak. Then it will be loved by all. :)

    Don't even joke about that! :eek: Scroll down a dozen of pages and you'll see how relieved I was that they didn't slap the hangar to the Galaxy-R.
    HQroeLu.jpg
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    dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    paxdawn wrote: »
    Why would they need to change the focus of the Galaxy R.

    It was made to be Eng console/ENg boff based ship not a DPS ship or SCI/Tac ship. The DPS version of the Galaxy is the Dreadnought Cruiser. If you want a Sci support cruiser, there is the Odyssey/Support/star cruiser to choose from.

    There is already 4 tac console of Galaxy which is the Fleet Dreadnought. I dont know why people still complain about the Galaxy when they already got a 4 tac console Galaxy version.

    What happens now with those who bought both the Fleet Galaxy R and Galaxy R for their Eng consoles? It would be unfair for them since they have limited options for the ENG fed ship, when Tac and Sci players have more options.

    Not everyone wants a DPS ship. There are more 5k dps and below build/players there than 10k and above dps players.

    If anyone is flying the Fleet Galaxy R/Galaxy R like a Assault Cruiser/Dreadnought/Avenger or an escort/sci ship/sci support cruiser, then the player is at fault. The logic is the same as forcing a Risian corvette hull tank like an Obelisk or a Voth Bulwark and complaining that the Risian corvette does not hull tank like the Obelisk/Bulwark.

    your implying the galaxy R currently has a focus. its station setup excludes the possibility of a focus, and leaves it the worst ship no mater what you try to use it for. worst DPS cruiser, and worst healing/tanking cruiser. this is why just any change would be a god send, it could optomize ever so in a sci or tac. just a modest thing like a universal ENS would make the ship twice as good, its that much of a trainwreck right now
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    paxdawnpaxdawn Member Posts: 767 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    your implying the galaxy R currently has a focus. its station setup excludes the possibility of a focus, and leaves it the worst ship no mater what you try to use it for. worst DPS cruiser, and worst healing/tanking cruiser. this is why just any change would be a god send, it could optomize ever so in a sci or tac. just a modest thing like a universal ENS would make the ship twice as good, its that much of a trainwreck right now

    this is the problem-> Why would anyone use it for Sci and Tac maximization. Not every toon is sci or tac. It has decent healing boff slot but not in a way that Sci toons use it.

    If you are looking for SCI boff cruiser, get a Star, support or Odyssey cruiser. If you are looking for a SCI healer, get a carrier or SCI ship. You very well know this is a ENG ship.

    If you are looking for the DPS Galaxy version, you should have bought the fleet Galaxy dreadnought instead of the fleet Galaxy exploration.

    In pvp, it is one of those ships that hard to die unless you dont know how to use this ship.

    In pve, its dps is decent but not superb. 10k dps on this ship is a given with the right group setup. 10k dps is already boring for PVE elite. Why would I need anything faster?

    If you dont know the role of this ship upto now, you dont know how to maximize and run this ship at all. Stick with those easier to build A2B cruiser, Tac escorts, SCi healer builds that can be taken from STO academy.
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    darthconnor1701darthconnor1701 Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    paxdawn wrote: »
    this is the problem-> Why would anyone use it for Sci and Tac maximization. Not every toon is sci or tac. It has decent healing boff slot but not in a way that Sci toons use it.

    If you are looking for SCI boff cruiser, get a Star, support or Odyssey cruiser. If you are looking for a SCI healer, get a carrier or SCI ship. You very well know this is a ENG ship.

    If you are looking for the DPS Galaxy version, you should have bought the fleet Galaxy dreadnought instead of the fleet Galaxy exploration.

    In pvp, it is one of those ships that hard to die unless you dont know how to use this ship.

    In pve, its dps is decent but not superb. 10k dps on this ship is a given with the right group setup. 10k dps is already boring for PVE elite. Why would I need anything faster?

    If you dont know the role of this ship upto now, you dont know how to maximize and run this ship at all. Stick with those easier to build A2B cruiser, Tac escorts, SCi healer builds that can be taken from STO academy.

    Most know how to best build it to be effective as it can be. The part most want fixed is simply put any role that can be done by the Galaxy R can be done by another ship and it can do it better.

    Honestly I think most problems can be easily solved by making all ships more universal or have a respec type option for BO and Console slots. Why they lock certain ships into certain roles is beyond me. Give every ship a starter build and simply add a respec option to use any other console and bo build for that ship class (that you own) and the problem is solved for all. Have your favorite ship and build in one. Seems like a great seller to me.

    Thoiugh if they aren't willing to go thru and do a revamped ship system making fleet ships like the Galaxy R have alternatives like the dyson sphere, romulan scimatar, odyssey, and other such so that you can pick tac science engineer or balanced builds or simply make more ships with universal lt com and ensigns.

    Dont think anyone here really want to hurt or take away another players choice or ruin their build as much as they want their fan favorite ship to preform as well as what is consider top ships of the class.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    paxdawn wrote: »
    this is the problem-> Why would anyone use it for Sci and Tac maximization. Not every toon is sci or tac. It has decent healing boff slot but not in a way that Sci toons use it.

    If you are looking for SCI boff cruiser, get a Star, support or Odyssey cruiser. If you are looking for a SCI healer, get a carrier or SCI ship. You very well know this is a ENG ship.

    If you are looking for the DPS Galaxy version, you should have bought the fleet Galaxy dreadnought instead of the fleet Galaxy exploration.

    In pvp, it is one of those ships that hard to die unless you dont know how to use this ship.

    In pve, its dps is decent but not superb. 10k dps on this ship is a given with the right group setup. 10k dps is already boring for PVE elite. Why would I need anything faster?

    If you dont know the role of this ship upto now, you dont know how to maximize and run this ship at all. Stick with those easier to build A2B cruiser, Tac escorts, SCi healer builds that can be taken from STO academy.

    it has no role, a side effect of the best heals being sci skills. there may be 3 captain types, there may be 3 station types, but there is only 2 roles a cruiser can take. sustained DPS or heal/tank. eng alone does not = tanking, not without sci. half the heals, the most powerful ones, are sci not eng. if that was not the case, pure eng would actually have a role, and sci would just be CC.

    all there is is ether a tac or sci lean, strictly engineering creates a ship that is incomplete at a fundamental level. eng is the foundation of every ship, the most critical part. all ships cant do without it, but if eng is all you have you have dysfunction. it cant heal or tank well without plentiful sci, it cant deal damage without more plentiful tac. there is nothing else in between that. there is no way to use it right, because it has no role, and is terrible when you try to use it in roles that actually exist.


    the solution to the galaxy R's problem is not fly something else, that fixes nothing. you still have 1 ship that's terrible, in a game were every single other ship is pretty good at least for a certain style of build. on principle, there should not be a ship in game that's in such a bad way, the fact that its such an iconic ship just makes it doubly disgraceful that its the way it is.
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    gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,579 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    still think the gal-r should of gotten a D'D layout with an engineering slant and the gal-x get a straight D'D layout with the tac

    LTC tac
    COMM eng
    ENS eng (instead of tac like the D'D)
    LTC sci
    ENS uni

    or get rid of the uni ENS and make the eng ENS an eng LT and 4 boff spots
    victoriasig_zps23c45368.jpg
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    admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,560 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    it has no role, a side effect of the best heals being sci skills. there may be 3 captain types, there may be 3 station types, but there is only 2 roles a cruiser can take. sustained DPS or heal/tank. eng alone does not = tanking, not without sci. half the heals, the most powerful ones, are sci not eng. if that was not the case, pure eng would actually have a role, and sci would just be CC.

    all there is is ether a tac or sci lean, strictly engineering creates a ship that is incomplete at a fundamental level. eng is the foundation of every ship, the most critical part. all ships cant do without it, but if eng is all you have you have dysfunction. it cant heal or tank well without plentiful sci, it cant deal damage without more plentiful tac. there is nothing else in between that. there is no way to use it right, because it has no role, and is terrible when you try to use it in roles that actually exist.


    the solution to the galaxy R's problem is not fly something else, that fixes nothing. you still have 1 ship that's terrible, in a game were every single other ship is pretty good at least for a certain style of build. on principle, there should not be a ship in game that's in such a bad way, the fact that its such an iconic ship just makes it doubly disgraceful that its the way it is.

    well while do GOOD heals are science there is much in eng that can work but you are correct the Gal R is too eng dependdant so I return to the idea I have had for ages. Make Gal R a all universal BO Stations like the KDF BOP line. it would be more canon and solve the main issue of the Retro.
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    angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    well while do GOOD heals are science there is much in eng that can work but you are correct the Gal R is too eng dependdant so I return to the idea I have had for ages. Make Gal R a all universal BO Stations like the KDF BOP line. it would be more canon and solve the main issue of the Retro.

    That's not how this game works.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
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    admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,560 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    angrytarg wrote: »
    That's not how this game works.

    what do you mean by that. The KDF have a WHOLE line of ships with universal Bo slots. I'm only suggesting one ship. Here's the layout. Captain Gal remains as is, Gal Retro universal BO slots, maybe a bo slot rearrangement for Venture but with a fix on the missing windows, And Gal X gets the needed graphics fix and the Shotgun lance becomes AOE.
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    angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    what do you mean by that. The KDF have a WHOLE line of ships with universal Bo slots. I'm only suggesting one ship. Here's the layout. Captain Gal remains as is, Gal Retro universal BO slots, maybe a bo slot rearrangement for Venture but with a fix on the missing windows, And Gal X gets the needed graphics fix and the Shotgun lance becomes AOE.

    I meant that suggesting all universal BOFFs is not a sensible suggestion in terms of how the game works. Each ship has a distinct layout. If you want another layout you need to buy another ship. The only exception are the Raiders, because they are a unique class of ships which pays heavily for the universal layout. In order to have a cruiser with an all universal layout you'd need to reduce it's hull to around 20k in order to make it a remotely viable trade-off. Plus the fact that a gal with an all universal layout would end ship sales, since you'd never need to buy another ship because you could recreate every layout there is :D
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
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    caldannachcaldannach Member Posts: 485 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    My Fleet Gal-x Dread does a lot of damage. Not sure if you are specifically talking about the galaxy support or any galaxy class ship.

    But the gal-x dreade has 4 tac consoles and lots of engineer boff slots. Its great. You have enough tac slots to equip TT1, FAW1 and APB1. Thats all you need, you just make up for it with some more offensive eng skills such as DEM 3 and EPTW 2 or 3. Make it aux 2 bat as well and with 4 tac consoles, it tears things up. I always use it with both its special consoles, for the extra abilities and also for the 2 set bonus, which makes the ship a lot tougher.

    Its my favourite heavy cruiser style ship. The avenger is my favourite offensive style.
    " Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
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    kaloriaa4kaloriaa4 Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    The Gal-x fleet dread is a good ship. I like it alot.
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    admiralq1732admiralq1732 Member Posts: 1,560 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    angrytarg wrote: »
    I meant that suggesting all universal BOFFs is not a sensible suggestion in terms of how the game works. Each ship has a distinct layout. If you want another layout you need to buy another ship. The only exception are the Raiders, because they are a unique class of ships which pays heavily for the universal layout. In order to have a cruiser with an all universal layout you'd need to reduce it's hull to around 20k in order to make it a remotely viable trade-off. Plus the fact that a gal with an all universal layout would end ship sales, since you'd never need to buy another ship because you could recreate every layout there is :D

    It's completely sensible. The Gal is a multi mission ship so universal works, and everything else stays the same. It solves THE biggest issue of the Gal R
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    orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I still really like the idea of switching BOFF seating in ships that have saucer/vector separation. Brilliant idea, and one of the few ideas I actually like from this thread.

    Aside from my own of course. =3
This discussion has been closed.