Simply means that any of ship class in TNG would have been way further outclassed and more disadvantages in those scenarios.
The Galaxy was still Starfleets best at that time. And that's CANON.
So the comparison of the Galaxy class to any other class who preceded her is obvious.
And again, that is NOT what was SHOWN.
But you know what? Keep going with that same line of though that is CLEARLY rejected by Cryptic/CBS. Guess who's going to win that one? (Hint: the same group that has been wining for four years -Cryptic/CBS).
You realise that "shown on screen" includes sound effects and spoken dialogue, right? Of course you do, you even were sure that TOS dialogue is canon. If you think that TNG dialogue is something else, however, you may enlighten us. But please, only use capital letters in the beginning of a sentence or names, would you?
Setting aside your passive-aggressive comments, what exactly are you talking about?
But it was shown during DS9. Excelsiors were getting torn apart while the Galaxy's while taking damage but kept fighting. SHOWN ON SCREEN! Direct comparison!
Your attempt to compare STO to canon and CBS to the Devs is laughable and can only be atributed to trolling
And FOUR YEARS of whining and raging about Cryptic while not doing anything ELSE is not "trolling"? Whatever.
Whatever names you guys call me is irrelevant, because it doesn't help your "cause", now does it? Four years of complaining with little results should have taught you that.
But I find it amusing that anytime I ask you what you guys "Plan B" is, it PAINFULLY obvious that you have none, other than the same "methods" that have yielded very little result.
What I don't understand about you guys is why you don't try to come up with an organized plan and at LEAST attempt to do something else other than rage against Cryptic? If there as many of you "Galaxy fans" as you claim, then why is is so hard to at least try some thing new? Hmmm?
But it was shown during DS9. Excelsiors were getting torn apart while the Galaxy's while taking damage but kept fighting. SHOWN ON SCREEN! Direct comparison!
Ok, let's go with this. The Defiant got hit with the Weapons Platform barrage also and didn't have the same damage as the Galaxy did (big hole in its hull), which again, goes with my original point that every OTHER show held their "hero" ship up with higher esteem than TNG did with the Galaxy.
Setting aside your passive-aggressive comments, what exactly are you talking about?
He's just pointing out that what is shown on screen as canon also covers what people say about the ship on screen. So if on screen people say that the Galaxy class is the strongest ship in the fleet, that means that the Galaxy class likely is the strongest ship in the fleet. How it performs against other things doesn't overly change that, it just means you need to spend time reconciling canon contradictions. And everyone does that differently, so if you want to use what is shown in screen as a reason you need to make a good case. So far, you haven't been making a great case.
I think he's also pointing out that you seem to be the most emotional person in this thread lately.
He's just pointing out that what is shown on screen as canon also covers what people say about the ship on screen. So if on screen people say that the Galaxy class is the strongest ship in the fleet, that means that the Galaxy class likely is the strongest ship in the fleet. How it performs against other things doesn't overly change that, it just means you need to spend time reconciling canon contradictions. And everyone does that differently, so if you want to use what is shown in screen as a reason you need to make a good case. So far, you haven't been making a great case.
I think he's also pointing out that you seem to be the most emotional person in this thread lately.
Whether I'm making a "great case" or not to YOU, guess which one is prevailing with Cryptic/CBS, and has been for FOUR YEARS? I think you know.
And again, you guys utterly refuse to consider a "Plan B", and want to continue to utilize the same obviously failing strategy. Hilarious!
Whether I'm making a "great case" or not to YOU, guess which one is prevailing with Cryptic/CBS, and has been for FOUR YEARS? I think you know.
And again, you guys utterly refuse to consider a "Plan B", and want to continue to utilize the same obviously failing strategy. Hilarious!
I don't think the performance of the Galaxy class in canon played much into Cryptic's decision to set it up the way it was.
Just look at it's contemporaries, the Defiant and the Intrepid. The Defiant is a super Tactical ship. The Intrepid is a super Science ship. The Galaxy is a super Engineering ship. The problem now is that while a Super Tactical ship is still good in game, a Super Science ship works (if you use it as a science ship and don't try to use it as a tactical ship), a Super Engineering ship has no real purpose.
This thread has at least 2 ways to change this. The first is to change the ship so that it's not a Super Engineering ship any more. The second is to create more desirable engineering powers so that a Super Engineering ship makes more sense with the current state of gameplay.
The third is to change gameplay, but I don't see that happening.
The debates about canon performance are more to show that the Galaxy are more to support the above than it is anything else.
Oh look who's back guys! Let's all say a big "HELLO" together to polaronbeam.
Sup' bud, life got a little bit boring?
Oh yeah....weren't you that guy that pulled "facts" directly from his own posterior about Cryptic not ever touching this ship again? Even in your latest "gem" of a reply you mention a 'failing strategy'.
Seriously, after the revamp don't you feel ashamed by your own stupidity?
Ok, let's go with this. The Defiant got hit with the Weapons Platform barrage also and didn't have the same damage as the Galaxy did (big hole in its hull), which again, goes with my original point that every OTHER show held their "hero" ship up with higher esteem than TNG did with the Galaxy.
Differnt writers..................Differnt Era.............No tech manuals support.........basically after Tng the writers could do anything they wanted
like 1 shotting borg cubes and destroying fleets of undine ships with 1 torpedo
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I don't think the performance of the Galaxy class in canon played much into Cryptic's decision to set it up the way it was.
Just look at it's contemporaries, the Defiant and the Intrepid. The Defiant is a super Tactical ship. The Intrepid is a super Science ship. The Galaxy is a super Engineering ship. The problem now is that while a Super Tactical ship is still good in game, a Super Science ship works (if you use it as a science ship and don't try to use it as a tactical ship), a Super Engineering ship has no real purpose.
This thread has at least 2 ways to change this. The first is to change the ship so that it's not a Super Engineering ship any more. The second is to create more desirable engineering powers so that a Super Engineering ship makes more sense with the current state of gameplay.
The third is to change gameplay, but I don't see that happening.
The debates about canon performance are more to show that the Galaxy are more to support the above than it is anything else.
Fair enough. That's fine and somewhat understandable. The problem is that for the most part, it's not working. There has been very little change in the improvements that you guys are looking for, so now what?
Again, when I provided the CBS information, I was surprised as to how quickly that suggestion was turned down, in favor of continuing an approach that has not worked for the most part. You guys had pinned all of your hopes on the recent changes to the Galaxy, only to once again, not get what you want. If you Galaxy fans plan is to simply wait around HOPING that things will change through osmosis, then be prepared that nothing may EVER change.
If those Star Trek fans in the 1960's had taken this approach, then there NEVER would have been a third season of TOS, and we would have never have has TNG, DS9, Voy, Ent, Movies, etc. So, what else are you guys prepared to do?
Oh look who's back guys! Let's all say a big "HELLO" together to polaronbeam.
Sup' bud, life got a little bit boring?
Oh yeah....weren't you that guy that pulled "facts" directly from his own posterior about Cryptic not ever touching this ship again? Even in your latest "gem" of a reply you mention a 'failing strategy'.
Seriously, after the revamp don't you feel ashamed by your own stupidity?
Oh, so you guys are happy with STILL having less tactical consoles than a RISIAN ship? My bad. Well "congratulations"!! -LOL :rolleyes:
So why is this thread contining if you got everything that you wanted? Hmmm. Good luck in answering that, Sherlock.
Oh, so you guys are happy with STILL having less tactical consoles than a RISIAN ship? My bad. Well "congratulations"!! -LOL
Irrelevant. You were firmly claiming that Cryptic won't ever touch the ship.
Today, the Galaxy is the first class in the Fed lineup to gain the 2-piece set brought to STO with the Romulan faction. It gained a new tanking and resistance bonus. My Galaxy has the base turn rate of the Excelsior today and more than a Sovereign. It also got the second generation of saucer sep.
So what does all of this make you on this topic?
Hint: It starts with a 'w' and ends with a 'g'.
So why is this thread contining if you got everything that you wanted? Hmmm. Good luck in answering that, Sherlock.
Because our apetite is insatiable! Muahahahah We will never stop! We always want MOAR!!!
Next step - implementing the new SA on the Galaxy. Shortly after - a universal ensign Boff slot. If you stick around you'll see this happening in due time, if your heart can take it, that is.
Irrelevant. You were firmly claiming that Cryptic won't ever touch the ship.
Today, the Galaxy is the first class in the Fed lineup to gain the 2-piece set brought to STO with the Romulan faction. It gained a new tanking and resistance bonus. My Galaxy has the base turn rate of the Excelsior today and more than a Sovereign. It also got the second generation of saucer sep.
So what does all of this make you on this topic?
Hint: It starts with a 'w' and ends with a 'g'.
Because our apetite is insatiable! Muahahahah We will never stop! We always want MOAR!!!
Next step - implementing the new SA on the Galaxy. Shortly after - a universal ensign Boff slot. If you stick around you'll see this happening in due time, if your heart can take it, that is.
Go back and cite where I said that. Go ahead, buddy boy. I said that you guys wouldn't get what you want, and guess what, you didn't, since obviously you are still whining about it.
If I said that, then it should be fairly easy for you to pull it up, shouldn't it? Good luck.
Go back and cite where I said that. Go ahead, buddy boy. I said that you guys wouldn't get what you want, and guess what, you didn't, since obviously you are still whining about it.
If I said that, it should be fairly easy for you to pull it up, shouldn't it? Good luck.
lol Nice try. Not good enough, though.
Everyone that has been here for a while knows that the mods took down the thread for a day to cleanse it from most of your earlier posts due to their trolling and flaming nature that broke the TOS.
Go back and cite where I said that. Go ahead, buddy boy. I said that you guys wouldn't get what you want, and guess what, you didn't, since obviously you are still whining about it.
If I said that, then it should be fairly easy for you to pull it up, shouldn't it? Good luck.
What are you crying about ?
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Oh yeah, I forgot that one. Now the ET is usefull in that third engi slot.
lol Nice try. Not good enough, though.
Everyone that has been here for a while knows that the mods took down the thread for a day to cleanse it from most of your earlier posts due to their trolling and flaming nature that broke the TOS.
Like I though. Too lazy too try to "prove" your assertion. Oh well. It's up to you to "prove" your point, not me, buddy boy. That's how debates work.
In any event, It's clear that you guys have no other plan than to constantly rage at Cryptic. And don't pretend that you were happy with the changes, since you guys were in here still whining about how those "changes" weren't enough. Now you're saying they ARE enough? Consistency is definitely NOT your thing.
Like I though. Too lazy too try to "prove" your assertion. Oh well. It's up to you to "prove" your point, not me, buddy boy. That's how debates work.
Proove something with evidence you know doesn't exist anymore due to TOS breach. lol
I wonder which world you live in, but if you happen to meet Gandalf, Q or Daniels there ask them for a time travelling session for me, so I can quote your posts that don't exist anymore before the mods deleted them for breaking TOS & forum rules.
In any event, It's clear that you guys have no other plan than to constantly rage at Cryptic. And don't pretend that you were happy with the changes, since you guys were in here still whining about how those "changes" weren't enough. Now you're saying they ARE enough? Consistency is definitely NOT your thing.
Like I said, we're insaitable. :cool: We won't stop untill the Galaxy is the best ship in STO, untill the enitre STO playerbase needs to bow down to the Great Galaxy Class Overlord in order to play and until there's a statue of Enterprise-D in the center of Starfleet Academy, with a sculpture of Picard's arm on top marking 'engage'! :P Muahahahhahaaha
Setting aside your passive-aggressive comments, what exactly are you talking about?
I'm not the one being aggressive, am I? I just pointed out that I don't like to be yelled at. You pose as a rambling old coot who randomly starts to yell some words in order to make "a point", yet at least I still don't know what it is you actually want.
Now, in addition to what greyhame3 already said, I'll try to say it again: If it is stated on-screen that the Galaxy is the most powerful ship and all and is in the next instance shown to not be a match for something, it is to show that even the most powerful starship wouldn't get out of this situation with violence. It doesn't invalidate that it is the strongest ship. Come on, you know how the medium film works, right?
That aside, the Galaxy Class' portrayal in this game is a matter completely different from the canon discussion, which most of us have in good fun because we enjoy talking Trek. The only thing you, on the other hand, seem to get out of this debate is a gastric ulcer. I've seldomly seen someone this outraged and pumped about a fun topic. For your own sake, calm down, man
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
It seems yet another reminder of Forum rules is in order.
Flaming and/or Trolling
You may not post content which contains insults to other users or Perfect World Entertainment Staff, are specifically made to create undue discontent on the forums, disturbances in forum threads, pick fights or otherwise promote unfriendly conversation.
Report violations, do not quote them or reply to them. Responding to a violation in an inflammatory manner is a violation in itself and will result in appropriate action.
It is not necessary to insult, patronize, or otherwise belittle other people in order to make your opinion known.
Please do not reply to or quote anyone who is trolling, whether directly or indirectly.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
It seems yet another reminder of Forum rules is in order.
It is not necessary to insult, patronize, or otherwise belittle other people in order to make your opinion known.
Please do not reply to or quote anyone who is trolling, whether directly or indirectly.
Sorry bluegeek.
Now that I know your watchfull eye is in the thread to take care of any inapropriate stuff, I'll just ignore it for the time being and jump in game to girind some much needed dilithium.
But you know what? Keep going with that same line of though that is CLEARLY rejected by Cryptic/CBS. Guess who's going to win that one? (Hint: the same group that has been wining for four years -Cryptic/CBS).
you seem to have found a new argument to support your theory lately.
now since the galaxy didn't seem to perform well onscreen it can not be considered the most powerfull federation ship in tng era ( pre-sovereign, of course, or some will not be happy ).
so if i go with your logic, and so, intentionally separated the onscreen performance with the context, plot writing and drama effect i have came to something surprising.
2 things in fact.
first, the federation are just a bunch of idiots.
and second cryptic got one of the ship stats wrong ( i am not talking about the galaxy here,you naughty )
why federation are idiots? simple, they send to fight the dominion some galaxy, exelsior, akira, defiant, mirandas and a bunch of others, all some terrible ship in comparison to the runabout.
an armada of runabout would have end this war quicker obviously.
that the ship cryptic misrepresented in sto, this ship should have the hull and shield of a normal escort, but it should be twice to 4 time more powerfull than a bug ( on the nosemeter )
why?
there is an episode, i don't remember the name, where odo try to escape with a defective clone of weyoun, 1 jem hadar bug ship.
this ship coudn't destoyed the runabout ( hence the shield and hull that are utterly wrong in sto ) and then the runabout completely pulverise this bug with one phaser shot!
1 shot! over, nada, niet, chiao, arivederchi!
that is onscreen evidence!
either the runabout is a vessel way underestimated by starfleet or the bugship are not as powerfull and resistant as somes think they are!!
in any case it is much more efficient than a defiant.
can we officially designated the runabout the most powerfull ship in the fleet now?
we can also send an email to the borg so they can correct their database because they obviously got it wrong too.
yeah i known, they probably don't have a mail, but i am an oldstyle guy, i can't help it.
you seem to have found a new argument to support your theory lately.
now since the galaxy didn't seem to perform well onscreen it can not be considered the most powerfull federation ship in tng era ( post sovereign, of course, or some will not be happy ).
so if i go with your logic, and so, intentionally separated the onscreen performance with the context, plot writing and drama effect i have came to something surprising.
2 things in fact.
first, the federation are just a bunch of idiots.
and second cryptic got one of the ship stats wrong ( i am not talking about the galaxy here,you naughty )
why federation are idiots? simple, they send to fight the dominion some galaxy, exelsior, akira, defiant, mirandas and a bunch of others, all some terrible ship in comparison to the runabout.
an armada of runabout would have end this war quicker obviously.
that the ship cryptic misrepresented in sto, this ship should have the hull and shield of a normal escort, but it should be twice to 4 time more powerfull than a bug ( on the nosemeter )
why?
there is an episode, i don't remember the name, where odo try to escape with a defective clone of weyoun, 1 jem hadar bug ship.
this ship coudn't destoyed the runabout ( hence the shield and hull that are utterly wrong in sto ) and then the runabout completely pulverise this bug with one phaser shot!
1 shot! over, nada, niet, chiao, arivederchi!
that is onscreen evidence!
either the runabout is a vessel way underestimated by starfleet or the bugship are not as powerfull and resistant as somes think they are!!
in any case it is much more efficient than a defiant.
can we officially designated the runabout the most powerfull ship in the fleet now?
we can also send an email to the borg so they can correct their database because they obviously got it wrong too.
yeah i known, they probably don't have a mail, but i am an oldstyle guy, i can't help it.
how about the vaunted enterprise from tos? the one that invented being the wiping boy to the alien of the week. every episode ether the crew down on the planet at the mercy of some hostile force, OR the ship was seconds away from falling from orbit, being out of power, limping along with nearly busted crystals, the crew about to suffocate, etc. what happened in tng was rather tame compared to some of the seconds from destruction peril there was in TOS.
Ent-D vs. average Tamaran vessel ("Darmok): neutral
brand new alien and ship introduced, their ship has never been previously bench marked as weak, so its 'win' isn't any sort of mark against the galaxy like losing to a bop is. i don't recall the episode in perfect detail, but the captain was down on the planet and at their potential mercy, their hands were tied. if i recall correctly they just tried to punch a hole in their defense so they could beam the captain, out, not defeat it outright in a strait fight. they STILL wanted this contact to end peacefully. also, the fx couldn't even be bothered to fire phasers from the arrays, but instead fired from the torpedo launchers, over all one of the worst battles to judge a single thing on.
Ent-D vs. average Romulan Warbird ("Tin Man"): win
average d'deridex is your worst nightmare, if it comes out of cloak guns blazing. in a manor of seconds one single handedly caused enough damage to ds9 to seal its fate and blow it up in the episode Visionary. it wouldn't be long after that it held of a klingon fleet too. ive been saying this over and over but it hasn't sank in so i guess i'll just have to post a source, about 39 minutes in http://www.cbs.com/shows/star_trek_deep_space_9/video/OpPkxmfCQCUY2v7kpDbUt_eZr0YRKpr_/star-trek-deep-space-nine-visionary oh sure you don't see it blow up then, to see that you will have to rewind it to around 30 minutes, episode is funny like that.
that nose gun is the most powerful single weapons bank of any of the main 3 alpha/beta quadrant powers. the fact that the enterprise holds up as well as it does to the same attack seems pretty impressive to me. its a d'deridex doing what it does best, ambushing from cloak. it just doesn't hold up that well as a ship of the line out in the open though.
Ent-D vs. various probes ("Arsenal of Freedom", "The Nth Degree") win
its like you didn't even watch the episode. the probes got stronger and stronger, and even at their best the enterprise still won. saying this is fail, is like saying kirk and the enterprise A were fail because they couldn't just kill the invisible bop at will. in both cases outsmarting the enemy won the day. as soon as the cloak was defeated in both cases, the offending ship was blown away easily.
Ent-D vs Two B'Rel BOP's ("Rascals"): Fail
this is one of the many episodes in tng that is only believable if the entire crew was evacuated prior and only the command crew was aboard. the actual battle itself is less offensively stupid. in the spirit of making a terrible half assed episode, they used a few clips from the yesterdays enterprise fight and called it good. not till star trek 7 using the bop explosion from star trek 6 would we approach this kind of shameless reuse of film. thank god for CGI banishing TRIBBLE from ever showing up again. at least the effects aren't what holds the rest of the shows back anymore.
Ent-D vs. 20 year old BOP ("Generations"): ULTRA FAIL
only a single phaser blast was fired at the bop. truly, the most poorly done fight in the history of startrek. the fighting back was so bad, its a plot hole, compared to past performance. it only faced off against a bop because the model hadn't had time to get dusty yet from ST6, and they had that real great explosion in the can ready to edit into the end of the fight.
if they ever do a remastered of generations, they should edit out that single limp wristed phaser shot, and edit in the volume of fire from this episode here https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=H_XbWq49vUM. the enterrpise was still doomed, those 2 torps are what caused the reactor to very conveniently go critical. maybe some of the damage from the warp nacelle too. the bop didnt KO the enterprise, so much as throw a bannana peel at its feet and make it fall on its face.
Galaxy vs. Jem'Hadar ("The Jem'Haddar"): neutral
what i learned form this fight is that the weapons on bugs are so weak that when they roll for damage, they come up short against the odyssey's armor class, and to them a natural 20 is a suicide run.
the entire battle is easily explained by how compromised the federation was as soon as the dominion learned the worm hole existed. shape shifting spies feeding back everything they would need to know to circumvent federation shields and protect them selves from federation weapons, oh sure, the dominion we got to know so well was to incompetent to be all over that instantly. and planing things like that battle to use as a diversion to deliver that vorta double agent, and going to the trouble of hiding the fact that vorta are even part of the dominion hierarchy until that point. they OBVIOUSLY knew them well enough to know JUST how to play them as fools. and to top it off, they beamed her right off ops, and they never figured out how they did it, or were she beamed too, or anything. beyond compromised.
oh but the defiant did so much better, sorta. was able to deal damage at least. the defiant was shelved, the only one that knew anything about it really was sisko, if noone knew anything about it, it had the chance to really be a wild card in those early fights. the federation wasnt even aware of its armor a year or more latter. the cannons who's pulses have multiple layers of multiple frequencies to counter borg adaptation could not be blocked as easily as typical beams were, so it got a kill. being a tiny ship, it got totally rocked in no time flat, wile they couldn't even bloody the odysseys nose for 10 minutes with those same conventional weapons.
Ent-D vs Borg ("The Best of Both Worlds"): wut
it won, in typical tng fashion. it was the only federation ship that fraught the cube and lived
Ent-D vs Lore's Borg ("Descent part 2"): wut
lol, lore's borg got beat by the dancing doctor
you have played to much sto if you think being beat by the borg is getting jobed. only with future tech did jainway ever defeat any notable borg ships. the only one they really have credit defeating was that little rectangle frigate, with an internally exploded photon. they were about to get owned by just a sphere in the episode they tried to return echeb, even with '29th century borg tech' help. that tactical cube was destroyed by a self destruct order, not overpowered by that sphere and voyager. all voyager was good at vs the borg is having shields real good at staying intact vs borg weapons, probably thanks in large part to their pet drone.
so your little game was played, your examples have been addressed. ive never ignored these instances, but the situations are so full of holes and extenuating context that they aren't enough to prove or disprove anything, they never have been. my stance on the galaxy has had all this in mind all along.
how about the vaunted enterprise from tos? the one that invented being the wiping boy to the alien of the week. every episode ether the crew down on the planet at the mercy of some hostile force, OR the ship was seconds away from falling from orbit, being out of power, limping along with nearly busted crystals, the crew about to suffocate, etc. what happened in tng was rather tame compared to some of the seconds from destruction peril there was in TOS.
Ent-D vs. average Tamaran vessel ("Darmok): neutral
brand new alien and ship introduced, their ship has never been previously bench marked as weak, so its 'win' isn't any sort of mark against the galaxy like losing to a bop is. i don't recall the episode in perfect detail, but the captain was down on the planet and at their potential mercy, their hands were tied. if i recall correctly they just tried to punch a hole in their defense so they could beam the captain, out, not defeat it outright in a strait fight. they STILL wanted this contact to end peacefully. also, the fx couldn't even be bothered to fire phasers from the arrays, but instead fired from the torpedo launchers, over all one of the worst battles to judge a single thing on.
Ent-D vs. average Romulan Warbird ("Tin Man"): win
average d'deridex is your worst nightmare, if it comes out of cloak guns blazing. in a manor of seconds one single handedly caused enough damage to ds9 to seal its fate and blow it up in the episode Visionary. it wouldn't be long after that it held of a klingon fleet too. ive been saying this over and over but it hasn't sank in so i guess i'll just have to post a source, about 39 minutes in http://www.cbs.com/shows/star_trek_deep_space_9/video/OpPkxmfCQCUY2v7kpDbUt_eZr0YRKpr_/star-trek-deep-space-nine-visionary oh sure you don't see it blow up then, to see that you will have to rewind it to around 30 minutes, episode is funny like that.
that nose gun is the most powerful single weapons bank of any of the main 3 alpha/beta quadrant powers. the fact that the enterprise holds up as well as it does to the same attack seems pretty impressive to me. its a d'deridex doing what it does best, ambushing from cloak. it just doesn't hold up that well as a ship of the line out in the open though.
Ent-D vs. various probes ("Arsenal of Freedom", "The Nth Degree") win
its like you didn't even watch the episode. the probes got stronger and stronger, and even at their best the enterprise still won. saying this is fail, is like saying kirk and the enterprise A were fail because they couldn't just kill the invisible bop at will. in both cases outsmarting the enemy won the day. as soon as the cloak was defeated in both cases, the offending ship was blown away easily.
Ent-D vs Two B'Rel BOP's ("Rascals"): Fail
this is one of the many episodes in tng that is only believable if the entire crew was evacuated prior and only the command crew was aboard. the actual battle itself is less offensively stupid. in the spirit of making a terrible half assed episode, they used a few clips from the yesterdays enterprise fight and called it good. not till star trek 7 using the bop explosion from star trek 6 would we approach this kind of shameless reuse of film. thank god for CGI banishing TRIBBLE from ever showing up again. at least the effects aren't what holds the rest of the shows back anymore.
Ent-D vs. 20 year old BOP ("Generations"): ULTRA FAIL
only a single phaser blast was fired at the bop. truly, the most poorly done fight in the history of startrek. the fighting back was so bad, its a plot hole, compared to past performance. it only faced off against a bop because the model hadn't had time to get dusty yet from ST6, and they had that real great explosion in the can ready to edit into the end of the fight.
if they ever do a remastered of generations, they should edit out that single limp wristed phaser shot, and edit in the volume of fire from this episode here https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=H_XbWq49vUM. the enterrpise was still doomed, those 2 torps are what caused the reactor to very conveniently go critical. maybe some of the damage from the warp nacelle too. the bop didnt KO the enterprise, so much as throw a bannana peel at its feet and make it fall on its face.
Galaxy vs. Jem'Hadar ("The Jem'Haddar"): neutral
what i learned form this fight is that the weapons on bugs are so weak that when they roll for damage, they come up short against the odyssey's armor class, and to them a natural 20 is a suicide run.
the entire battle is easily explained by how compromised the federation was as soon as the dominion learned the worm hole existed. shape shifting spies feeding back everything they would need to know to circumvent federation shields and protect them selves from federation weapons, oh sure, the dominion we got to know so well was to incompetent to be all over that instantly. and planing things like that battle to use as a diversion to deliver that vorta double agent, and going to the trouble of hiding the fact that vorta are even part of the dominion hierarchy until that point. they OBVIOUSLY knew them well enough to know JUST how to play them as fools. and to top it off, they beamed her right off ops, and they never figured out how they did it, or were she beamed too, or anything. beyond compromised.
oh but the defiant did so much better, sorta. was able to deal damage at least. the defiant was shelved, the only one that knew anything about it really was sisko, if noone knew anything about it, it had the chance to really be a wild card in those early fights. the federation wasnt even aware of its armor a year or more latter. the cannons who's pulses have multiple layers of multiple frequencies to counter borg adaptation could not be blocked as easily as typical beams were, so it got a kill. being a tiny ship, it got totally rocked in no time flat, wile they couldn't even bloody the odysseys nose for 10 minutes with those same conventional weapons.
Ent-D vs Borg ("The Best of Both Worlds"): wut
it won, in typical tng fashion. it was the only federation ship that fraught the cube and lived
Ent-D vs Lore's Borg ("Descent part 2"): wut
lol, lore's borg got beat by the dancing doctor
you have played to much sto if you think being beat by the borg is getting jobed. only with future tech did jainway ever defeat any notable borg ships. the only one they really have credit defeating was that little rectangle frigate, with an internally exploded photon. they were about to get owned by just a sphere in the episode they tried to return echeb, even with '29th century borg tech' help. that tactical cube was destroyed by a self destruct order, not overpowered by that sphere and voyager. all voyager was good at vs the borg is having shields real good at staying intact vs borg weapons, probably thanks in large part to their pet drone.
so your little game was played, your examples have been addressed. ive never ignored these instances, but the situations are so full of holes and extenuating context that they aren't enough to prove or disprove anything, they never have been. my stance on the galaxy has had all this in mind all along.
if he wants to quote rascals when trashing the galaxy remember when the defiant was captured in a surprise jemhadar attack DURING WARTIME NO LESS when they thought it was a good idea to shrink a runabout
if he wants to quote rascals when trashing the galaxy remember when the defiant was captured in a surprise jemhadar attack DURING WARTIME NO LESS when they thought it was a good idea to shrink a runabout
HA, ya that episode was at least as stupid as rascals. but at least the premise actually works in the war time situation they were in, and on a small ship, unlike one with a population over 1000
Comments
And again, that is NOT what was SHOWN.
But you know what? Keep going with that same line of though that is CLEARLY rejected by Cryptic/CBS. Guess who's going to win that one? (Hint: the same group that has been wining for four years -Cryptic/CBS).
Setting aside your passive-aggressive comments, what exactly are you talking about?
And FOUR YEARS of whining and raging about Cryptic while not doing anything ELSE is not "trolling"? Whatever.
Whatever names you guys call me is irrelevant, because it doesn't help your "cause", now does it? Four years of complaining with little results should have taught you that.
But I find it amusing that anytime I ask you what you guys "Plan B" is, it PAINFULLY obvious that you have none, other than the same "methods" that have yielded very little result.
What I don't understand about you guys is why you don't try to come up with an organized plan and at LEAST attempt to do something else other than rage against Cryptic? If there as many of you "Galaxy fans" as you claim, then why is is so hard to at least try some thing new? Hmmm?
Ok, let's go with this. The Defiant got hit with the Weapons Platform barrage also and didn't have the same damage as the Galaxy did (big hole in its hull), which again, goes with my original point that every OTHER show held their "hero" ship up with higher esteem than TNG did with the Galaxy.
I think he's also pointing out that you seem to be the most emotional person in this thread lately.
Whether I'm making a "great case" or not to YOU, guess which one is prevailing with Cryptic/CBS, and has been for FOUR YEARS? I think you know.
And again, you guys utterly refuse to consider a "Plan B", and want to continue to utilize the same obviously failing strategy. Hilarious!
Just look at it's contemporaries, the Defiant and the Intrepid. The Defiant is a super Tactical ship. The Intrepid is a super Science ship. The Galaxy is a super Engineering ship. The problem now is that while a Super Tactical ship is still good in game, a Super Science ship works (if you use it as a science ship and don't try to use it as a tactical ship), a Super Engineering ship has no real purpose.
This thread has at least 2 ways to change this. The first is to change the ship so that it's not a Super Engineering ship any more. The second is to create more desirable engineering powers so that a Super Engineering ship makes more sense with the current state of gameplay.
The third is to change gameplay, but I don't see that happening.
The debates about canon performance are more to show that the Galaxy are more to support the above than it is anything else.
Sup' bud, life got a little bit boring?
Oh yeah....weren't you that guy that pulled "facts" directly from his own posterior about Cryptic not ever touching this ship again? Even in your latest "gem" of a reply you mention a 'failing strategy'.
Seriously, after the revamp don't you feel ashamed by your own stupidity?
Differnt writers..................Differnt Era.............No tech manuals support.........basically after Tng the writers could do anything they wanted
like 1 shotting borg cubes and destroying fleets of undine ships with 1 torpedo
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Fair enough. That's fine and somewhat understandable. The problem is that for the most part, it's not working. There has been very little change in the improvements that you guys are looking for, so now what?
Again, when I provided the CBS information, I was surprised as to how quickly that suggestion was turned down, in favor of continuing an approach that has not worked for the most part. You guys had pinned all of your hopes on the recent changes to the Galaxy, only to once again, not get what you want. If you Galaxy fans plan is to simply wait around HOPING that things will change through osmosis, then be prepared that nothing may EVER change.
If those Star Trek fans in the 1960's had taken this approach, then there NEVER would have been a third season of TOS, and we would have never have has TNG, DS9, Voy, Ent, Movies, etc. So, what else are you guys prepared to do?
Oh, so you guys are happy with STILL having less tactical consoles than a RISIAN ship? My bad. Well "congratulations"!! -LOL :rolleyes:
So why is this thread contining if you got everything that you wanted? Hmmm. Good luck in answering that, Sherlock.
Irrelevant. You were firmly claiming that Cryptic won't ever touch the ship.
Today, the Galaxy is the first class in the Fed lineup to gain the 2-piece set brought to STO with the Romulan faction. It gained a new tanking and resistance bonus. My Galaxy has the base turn rate of the Excelsior today and more than a Sovereign. It also got the second generation of saucer sep.
So what does all of this make you on this topic?
Hint: It starts with a 'w' and ends with a 'g'.
Because our apetite is insatiable! Muahahahah
Next step - implementing the new SA on the Galaxy. Shortly after - a universal ensign Boff slot. If you stick around you'll see this happening in due time, if your heart can take it, that is.
Go back and cite where I said that. Go ahead, buddy boy. I said that you guys wouldn't get what you want, and guess what, you didn't, since obviously you are still whining about it.
If I said that, then it should be fairly easy for you to pull it up, shouldn't it? Good luck.
Oh yeah, I forgot that one. Now the ET is usefull in that third engi slot.
lol
Everyone that has been here for a while knows that the mods took down the thread for a day to cleanse it from most of your earlier posts due to their trolling and flaming nature that broke the TOS.
What are you crying about ?
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Like I though. Too lazy too try to "prove" your assertion. Oh well. It's up to you to "prove" your point, not me, buddy boy. That's how debates work.
In any event, It's clear that you guys have no other plan than to constantly rage at Cryptic. And don't pretend that you were happy with the changes, since you guys were in here still whining about how those "changes" weren't enough. Now you're saying they ARE enough? Consistency is definitely NOT your thing.
What are you talking about?
Proove something with evidence you know doesn't exist anymore due to TOS breach. lol
I wonder which world you live in, but if you happen to meet Gandalf, Q or Daniels there ask them for a time travelling session for me, so I can quote your posts that don't exist anymore before the mods deleted them for breaking TOS & forum rules.
Like I said, we're insaitable. :cool: We won't stop untill the Galaxy is the best ship in STO, untill the enitre STO playerbase needs to bow down to the Great Galaxy Class Overlord in order to play and until there's a statue of Enterprise-D in the center of Starfleet Academy, with a sculpture of Picard's arm on top marking 'engage'! :P Muahahahhahaaha
I'm not the one being aggressive, am I? I just pointed out that I don't like to be yelled at. You pose as a rambling old coot who randomly starts to yell some words in order to make "a point", yet at least I still don't know what it is you actually want.
Now, in addition to what greyhame3 already said, I'll try to say it again: If it is stated on-screen that the Galaxy is the most powerful ship and all and is in the next instance shown to not be a match for something, it is to show that even the most powerful starship wouldn't get out of this situation with violence. It doesn't invalidate that it is the strongest ship. Come on, you know how the medium film works, right?
That aside, the Galaxy Class' portrayal in this game is a matter completely different from the canon discussion, which most of us have in good fun because we enjoy talking Trek. The only thing you, on the other hand, seem to get out of this debate is a gastric ulcer. I've seldomly seen someone this outraged and pumped about a fun topic. For your own sake, calm down, man
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It seems yet another reminder of Forum rules is in order.
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Please do not reply to or quote anyone who is trolling, whether directly or indirectly.
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Sorry bluegeek.
Now that I know your watchfull eye is in the thread to take care of any inapropriate stuff, I'll just ignore it for the time being and jump in game to girind some much needed dilithium.
you seem to have found a new argument to support your theory lately.
now since the galaxy didn't seem to perform well onscreen it can not be considered the most powerfull federation ship in tng era ( pre-sovereign, of course, or some will not be happy ).
so if i go with your logic, and so, intentionally separated the onscreen performance with the context, plot writing and drama effect i have came to something surprising.
2 things in fact.
first, the federation are just a bunch of idiots.
and second cryptic got one of the ship stats wrong ( i am not talking about the galaxy here,you naughty )
why federation are idiots? simple, they send to fight the dominion some galaxy, exelsior, akira, defiant, mirandas and a bunch of others, all some terrible ship in comparison to the runabout.
an armada of runabout would have end this war quicker obviously.
that the ship cryptic misrepresented in sto, this ship should have the hull and shield of a normal escort, but it should be twice to 4 time more powerfull than a bug ( on the nosemeter )
why?
there is an episode, i don't remember the name, where odo try to escape with a defective clone of weyoun, 1 jem hadar bug ship.
this ship coudn't destoyed the runabout ( hence the shield and hull that are utterly wrong in sto ) and then the runabout completely pulverise this bug with one phaser shot!
1 shot! over, nada, niet, chiao, arivederchi!
that is onscreen evidence!
either the runabout is a vessel way underestimated by starfleet or the bugship are not as powerfull and resistant as somes think they are!!
in any case it is much more efficient than a defiant.
can we officially designated the runabout the most powerfull ship in the fleet now?
we can also send an email to the borg so they can correct their database because they obviously got it wrong too.
yeah i known, they probably don't have a mail, but i am an oldstyle guy, i can't help it.
ho i have found a video of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZUSqpqIqsU
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
i believe that is a check mate
Ent-D vs. average Tamaran vessel ("Darmok): neutral
brand new alien and ship introduced, their ship has never been previously bench marked as weak, so its 'win' isn't any sort of mark against the galaxy like losing to a bop is. i don't recall the episode in perfect detail, but the captain was down on the planet and at their potential mercy, their hands were tied. if i recall correctly they just tried to punch a hole in their defense so they could beam the captain, out, not defeat it outright in a strait fight. they STILL wanted this contact to end peacefully. also, the fx couldn't even be bothered to fire phasers from the arrays, but instead fired from the torpedo launchers, over all one of the worst battles to judge a single thing on.
Ent-D vs. average Romulan Warbird ("Tin Man"): win
average d'deridex is your worst nightmare, if it comes out of cloak guns blazing. in a manor of seconds one single handedly caused enough damage to ds9 to seal its fate and blow it up in the episode Visionary. it wouldn't be long after that it held of a klingon fleet too. ive been saying this over and over but it hasn't sank in so i guess i'll just have to post a source, about 39 minutes in http://www.cbs.com/shows/star_trek_deep_space_9/video/OpPkxmfCQCUY2v7kpDbUt_eZr0YRKpr_/star-trek-deep-space-nine-visionary oh sure you don't see it blow up then, to see that you will have to rewind it to around 30 minutes, episode is funny like that.
that nose gun is the most powerful single weapons bank of any of the main 3 alpha/beta quadrant powers. the fact that the enterprise holds up as well as it does to the same attack seems pretty impressive to me. its a d'deridex doing what it does best, ambushing from cloak. it just doesn't hold up that well as a ship of the line out in the open though.
Ent-D vs. various probes ("Arsenal of Freedom", "The Nth Degree") win
its like you didn't even watch the episode. the probes got stronger and stronger, and even at their best the enterprise still won. saying this is fail, is like saying kirk and the enterprise A were fail because they couldn't just kill the invisible bop at will. in both cases outsmarting the enemy won the day. as soon as the cloak was defeated in both cases, the offending ship was blown away easily.
Ent-D vs Two B'Rel BOP's ("Rascals"): Fail
this is one of the many episodes in tng that is only believable if the entire crew was evacuated prior and only the command crew was aboard. the actual battle itself is less offensively stupid. in the spirit of making a terrible half assed episode, they used a few clips from the yesterdays enterprise fight and called it good. not till star trek 7 using the bop explosion from star trek 6 would we approach this kind of shameless reuse of film. thank god for CGI banishing TRIBBLE from ever showing up again. at least the effects aren't what holds the rest of the shows back anymore.
Ent-D vs. 20 year old BOP ("Generations"): ULTRA FAIL
only a single phaser blast was fired at the bop. truly, the most poorly done fight in the history of startrek. the fighting back was so bad, its a plot hole, compared to past performance. it only faced off against a bop because the model hadn't had time to get dusty yet from ST6, and they had that real great explosion in the can ready to edit into the end of the fight.
if they ever do a remastered of generations, they should edit out that single limp wristed phaser shot, and edit in the volume of fire from this episode here https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=H_XbWq49vUM. the enterrpise was still doomed, those 2 torps are what caused the reactor to very conveniently go critical. maybe some of the damage from the warp nacelle too. the bop didnt KO the enterprise, so much as throw a bannana peel at its feet and make it fall on its face.
Galaxy vs. Jem'Hadar ("The Jem'Haddar"): neutral
what i learned form this fight is that the weapons on bugs are so weak that when they roll for damage, they come up short against the odyssey's armor class, and to them a natural 20 is a suicide run.
the entire battle is easily explained by how compromised the federation was as soon as the dominion learned the worm hole existed. shape shifting spies feeding back everything they would need to know to circumvent federation shields and protect them selves from federation weapons, oh sure, the dominion we got to know so well was to incompetent to be all over that instantly. and planing things like that battle to use as a diversion to deliver that vorta double agent, and going to the trouble of hiding the fact that vorta are even part of the dominion hierarchy until that point. they OBVIOUSLY knew them well enough to know JUST how to play them as fools. and to top it off, they beamed her right off ops, and they never figured out how they did it, or were she beamed too, or anything. beyond compromised.
oh but the defiant did so much better, sorta. was able to deal damage at least. the defiant was shelved, the only one that knew anything about it really was sisko, if noone knew anything about it, it had the chance to really be a wild card in those early fights. the federation wasnt even aware of its armor a year or more latter. the cannons who's pulses have multiple layers of multiple frequencies to counter borg adaptation could not be blocked as easily as typical beams were, so it got a kill. being a tiny ship, it got totally rocked in no time flat, wile they couldn't even bloody the odysseys nose for 10 minutes with those same conventional weapons.
Ent-D vs Borg ("The Best of Both Worlds"): wut
it won, in typical tng fashion. it was the only federation ship that fraught the cube and lived
Ent-D vs Lore's Borg ("Descent part 2"): wut
lol, lore's borg got beat by the dancing doctor
you have played to much sto if you think being beat by the borg is getting jobed. only with future tech did jainway ever defeat any notable borg ships. the only one they really have credit defeating was that little rectangle frigate, with an internally exploded photon. they were about to get owned by just a sphere in the episode they tried to return echeb, even with '29th century borg tech' help. that tactical cube was destroyed by a self destruct order, not overpowered by that sphere and voyager. all voyager was good at vs the borg is having shields real good at staying intact vs borg weapons, probably thanks in large part to their pet drone.
so your little game was played, your examples have been addressed. ive never ignored these instances, but the situations are so full of holes and extenuating context that they aren't enough to prove or disprove anything, they never have been. my stance on the galaxy has had all this in mind all along.
if he wants to quote rascals when trashing the galaxy remember when the defiant was captured in a surprise jemhadar attack DURING WARTIME NO LESS when they thought it was a good idea to shrink a runabout
HA, ya that episode was at least as stupid as rascals. but at least the premise actually works in the war time situation they were in, and on a small ship, unlike one with a population over 1000