That would mean something if the game was ever balanced to begin with. So that argument literally holds no value.
U never understand my words, dunno wy lol. I meant that there is no balance between how cryptic "cares" about their customers and their will to make money at all costs. So it doesnt matter how "good" is their f2p model. It is a fact like a temple.
Hers my 2 cents, If the game generates more money as F2P then why are we not seeing the benifits of that extra money. When it was subscription based we got a steady (not alot but we still got it) flow of missions added to the game as well as Fleet ships and space missions. If the game is makeing way more money as F2P shouldnt we be getting that and more. Seems to me that, the more money cryptic makes the less content we get. The less money it makes the more content we get. To me this is back asswards.
Because you are talking about Cryptic owned by Atari... and Cryptic owned by pwe.
They are both traded companies and both have to post numbers. Not hard to find the info. Cryptic is more profitable then ever... a big part of that is STO, another big part is never winter.
I mean when PWE is putting things like this at the end of there earnings reports....
Based on the confidence in our current business and outlook, and as an appreciation to our
supporters, we distributed a cash dividend of approximately USD98 million to our
shareholders in April 2012. We will continue to build our business with an unwavering
commitment to creating value for our shareholders over time.
They are bringing in 80-100 million a quarter with margines north of 75%.... so if your wondering where they are spending the money. They are reinvesting and launching there games in other markets. (including STO... but also doing things like Neverwinter China... the reason they picked Cryptic up a D&D game in china boom) As well as paying a little bit back here and there to investors. (not a guess... its what they put down in there reports)
I think you can assume they are happy with Cryptic. They don't talk much about STO in any of there reports... because they bought a game developer. They also as much as we STO players don't like the fact... picked up Cryptic because they had a licence agreement in place for neverwinter. That attracted PWE much more then STO or Champs... or even there people. Game design people move around all the time... the people if they stick around are just icing.
Of course they are happy with cryptic lol. The game will be dead time ago if not. Cryptic is giving em a lot of money , for doing almost nothing (because after what the did on the season 9, i dont think they worked too much ...) and for abusing the customers in every aspect they can, while they avoid to waste time and more money on fixing important things of the game. So basically, all the money they earn goes to PWE. I said it a lot of times, cryptic has A LOT of money right now, same as PWE, and the only reason they dont change they way of work is, because they dont want to. Because they keep receiving money from the players every month, so, they are happy. They dont need to change their "strategy". Not until people wake up and stop paying money to cryptic for doing nothing.
Agree with OP, with patience you can get everything, the F2P is great in STO.
I bought all three Scimitar, MVAE + fleet, Excelsior Retrofit + fleet, Fleet Avenger, Fleet T'Varo, Valdore Warbird, Delta Flyer, Fleet Defiant, Account Shared Bank, EC Cap Removal, NX registry (because it's cool mkay?) even Mobius with a lucky sale and various service unlocks.
All of this with ZEN and EC, mostly first one using Dilithium Exchange. Still have to spend a dime
you forget.. those zen you got from exchange someone paid for..
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
Well if you look over PWE games that is pretty much the way it goes. They have lots and lots of games. Most of them free to play... or low cost models like torchlight. They are not looking for 1-2 flag ship products. They are looking for volume... and when it comes down to it. I bet PWE could care less about STO, Its just added revenue. PWE really cares about Neverwinter. The only reason they took Cryptic off Ataris hands was the deal in place with WOC. The trek IP isn't what swung that deal.
So yes like many older PWE games STO is on a low dev - pay box track.
I can live with that honestly... it drives me nuts. Still it is what it is. Cryptic isn't all of a sudden going to spend a bunch of development really doing much more then the basics.
you forget.. those zen you got from exchange someone paid for..
So many people seem to forget (not know) that. The only way to really play and not make Cryptic/PWE money... is to NEVER use the exchange for anything (even drop items) and to never ever use the D exchange.
U never understand my words, dunno wy lol. I meant that there is no balance between how cryptic "cares" about their customers and their will to make money at all costs. So it doesnt matter how "good" is their f2p model. It is a fact like a temple.
What YOU do not understand, this is an industry standard. Throw a rock at a gaming company, most of them are this way.
Welcome to the new age of gaming.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Granted, I joined about a month or two after F2P really hit (missed Freebie-Oddy by a couple of weeks, but made European Launch event...)
At the time, the "big content releases" was 5 mission FEs that were "trickled" out to us over 5 week spans. Devidian arc, Hakeev, Breen, 4028/Dominion...
Now, if you count the "remastered" Borg/Undine arc's 4 missions, and the new special mission with Tuvok, we have the exact same amount of content, 5 missions, heck, the 5th mission is practically "movie level" while the finales of the previous FE arcs weren't much "meatier" than the average episode...
And, after hearing one (thousand) too many "stop time gating" complaints, they elected to dump all 5 missions on season-release day, instead of having a "big, weekly release" thing, starting, say, easter week and dropping a new Borg mission on a weekly basis till they get to S9...
And if you think about it, the past few seasons have had about this level of content, actually more, if you look past the "remastering" bit...
LoR: Entire Rommie mission arc, new KDF 'lowbie' missions. Season 8: Revamped Fed Tutorial.
Both sets of missions have more than 5 missions, which means they pumped more work into these "seasons" than they were back in the days of subscription & 5 missions over 5 weeks FEs...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
In reply to the OP, if STO had not been F2P, I would not be here, most likely. I have plenty of entertaining games, and I can't see myself getting more than 1 or 2 more in this decade. There just isn't enough time to even set up a rotation, to visit all of them before one forgets the subtle game mechanics required to excel at them.
But since STO is F2P, and some other friends came over from a different server, raving about how much fun it was, here I am. And in the 6 months since, I have shelled out somthing like $200-300US for Zen & the Collector's Edition, apart from having a greater urgency to rebuild my old comp to stay in the game during events. If I weren't already a subscriber on my old "favorite" server, I suppose I'd be a gold member here, too.
P2W isn't something everyone is happy about, but it's a good thing there are plenty of gamers who prefer to win, or Cryptic would have a much smaller market for bells & whistles...;)
Expendables Fleet: Andrew - Bajoran Fed Engineer Ken'taura - Rom/Fed Scientist Gwyllim - Human Fed Delta Tac Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
What YOU do not understand, this is an industry standard. Throw a rock at a gaming company, most of them are this way.
Welcome to the new age of gaming.
You live in another world. STO is nothing like any other mmorpg i played (and i played A LOT). If you think its normal to have a game with the 75% content bugged, and with so many fails, and so many of em really old, and some of em really easy to fix, you should play more, seriously. Im not saying the basics are not the same on every f2p, but the case of STO is really unique. If you cant see it, well you played a different game all this time. I played the most bugged game ever about 6 years ago, it was based in the world of hyboria (you can now discover what game im talking about lol but i cant name it since its not allowed). That was considered the most bugged game in the story of the videogames , until they started doing things right. They transformed the game in f2p and after that, all the bugs were fixed asap. Because they cared about players and their complains. And it was the most bugged game of the story in their beginnings (cataloged as it). And STO is far more bugged than that game in those times. With the difference, that cryptic is not worrying about fixing the game. SO, sorry but the case of STO is unique. I only wish people could see it, instead trying to justify every action of cryptic. Its really pathetic.
You live in another world. STO is nothing like any other mmorpg i played (and i played A LOT). If you think its normal to have a game with the 75% content bugged, and with so many fails, and so many of em really old, and some of em really easy to fix, you should play more, seriously. Im not saying the basics are not the same on every f2p, but the case of STO is really unique. If you cant see it, well you played a different game all this time. I played the most bugged game ever about 6 years ago, it was based in the world of hyboria (you can now discover what game im talking about lol but i cant name it since its not allowed). That was considered the most bugged game in the story of the videogames , until they started doing things right. They transformed the game in f2p and after that, all the bugs were fixed asap. Because they cared about players and their complains. And it was the most bugged game of the story in their beginnings (cataloged as it). And STO is far more bugged than that game in those times. With the difference, that cryptic is not worrying about fixing the game. SO, sorry but the case of STO is unique. I only wish people could see it, instead trying to justify every action of cryptic. Its really pathetic.
And what games have you played. Granted I haven't played all that much but the ones I have played are actually worse.
Big Points Battlestar Galctica online. Day one drop 500 bucks, you can have an end tier ship in 10 minutes and have enough left over to make it one fo the strongest ships on the server. IN 10 MINUTES.
Pirates of the burning sea. Again blatent money grabbing.
Swtor. Need I say more.
world of tanks. Drop 50 bucks, you got a nice shiny tier 8 tank with preferred Match making most times and it makes a TRIBBLE ton of credits so you never run out. Save up xp, drop money to convert XP you can go from tier 1 to tier 10 and with the credits you saved up on that nice shiny tier 8 tank you have enough to buy a tier 10 tank without all the grinind many free players do and then just play till your little heart's content.
War thunder, more of the same of world of tanks.
I mean do I REALLY have to go on? You say I'm living in a damn dream world? Wake up and smell the coffee pal. YOU ARE THE ONE LIVING IN A DREAM WORLD.
The whole online gaming industry is going this way and they are making money hand over fist.
Oh and every single game I listed, RIDDLED with bugs.
World lf tanks, there are parts of the map you can literally SHOOT through due to por programming. SWTOR, do I REALLY need to point out how biased it is towards button smashing classes? War thunder still doesn't have it quite right with it's mechanics.
Battlestar galactica online by the time I quit it had new bugs EVERY SINGLE PATCH. Seriously wake up man. Welcome to the new world.
Also, use the return key for christ sakes, I barely read that blob.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I am thankful that its free to play, without it I wouldn't be able enjoy my Starfleet/Klingon/Romulan characters. Not everyone can spend money on the game (although I have bought some Zen when i was in US).
Interesting thought:
At the time, the "big content releases" was 5 mission FEs that were "trickled" out to us over 5 week spans. Devidian arc, Hakeev, Breen, 4028/Dominion...
Now, if you count the "remastered" Borg/Undine arc's 4 missions, and the new special mission with Tuvok, we have the exact same amount of content, 5 missions, heck, the 5th mission is practically "movie level" while the finales of the previous FE arcs weren't much "meatier" than the average episode...
And, after hearing one (thousand) too many "stop time gating" complaints, they elected to dump all 5 missions on season-release day, instead of having a "big, weekly release" thing, starting, say, easter week and dropping a new Borg mission on a weekly basis till they get to S9...
And if you think about it, the past few seasons have had about this level of content, actually more, if you look past the "remastering" bit...
LoR: Entire Rommie mission arc, new KDF 'lowbie' missions. Season 8: Revamped Fed Tutorial.
Both sets of missions have more than 5 missions, which means they pumped more work into these "seasons" than they were back in the days of subscription & 5 missions over 5 weeks FEs...
Well I somehow agree with you that they're slowly getting back on track, with Story Content ... but I see some flaws in your logic :
- 1 FE Series over 5 weeks was never ever a whole Season ("big content releases" as you call it), we got the Foundry, Klingon PVE Missions, Daily Missions, STFs etc (people seem to keep to forget that) -> we basically got a new Season, + 2 FE Series between Seasons (best case Scenario)
- I don't think the current FE has more "meat" than let's say "Cutting the Cord", I really enjoyed "Surface Tension", Cutscenes & Tuvok were great, but other than that, it was basically just "Shoot Stuff in Earth Orbit", "Shoot Stuff on ESD, "Shoot Stuff in Kronos Orbit"
- imho Season 8 Episode Revamp was pretty Meh (besides new Tutorial), you're right about S9, though ... tbh I found "Fluid Dynamics" more enjoyable than "Surface Tension"
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
And what games have you played. Granted I haven't played all that much but the ones I have played are actually worse.
Big Points Battlestar Galctica online. Day one drop 500 bucks, you can have an end tier ship in 10 minutes and have enough left over to make it one fo the strongest ships on the server. IN 10 MINUTES.
Pirates of the burning sea. Again blatent money grabbing.
Swtor. Need I say more.
world of tanks. Drop 50 bucks, you got a nice shiny tier 8 tank with preferred Match making most times and it makes a TRIBBLE ton of credits so you never run out. Save up xp, drop money to convert XP you can go from tier 1 to tier 10 and with the credits you saved up on that nice shiny tier 8 tank you have enough to buy a tier 10 tank without all the grinind many free players do and then just play till your little heart's content.
War thunder, more of the same of world of tanks.
I mean do I REALLY have to go on? You say I'm living in a damn dream world? Wake up and smell the coffee pal. YOU ARE THE ONE LIVING IN A DREAM WORLD.
The whole online gaming industry is going this way and they are making money hand over fist.
Oh and every single game I listed, RIDDLED with bugs.
World lf tanks, there are parts of the map you can literally SHOOT through due to por programming. SWTOR, do I REALLY need to point out how biased it is towards button smashing classes? War thunder still doesn't have it quite right with it's mechanics.
Battlestar galactica online by the time I quit it had new bugs EVERY SINGLE PATCH. Seriously wake up man. Welcome to the new world.
Also, use the return key for christ sakes, I barely read that blob.
I m not goint to even bother to read this.
But i dont need to. Its always the same story, yea you want your dear STO to keep living for a lot of years, we understand that. But you will never be objective. Probably you are a LFS or someone with a montly sub, with the need to justifiy it. I tell you again, if you cant see STO is the most screwed up game in the story , you are blind. Period. Maybe you should use those glasses of your signature lol.
P.D.: Only with the stupid examples you write in your post, that says it all lol.
But i dont need to. Its always the same story, yea you want your dear STO to keep living for a lot of years, we understand that. But you will never be objective. Probably you are a LFS or someone with a montly sub, with the need to justifiy it. I tell you again, if you cant see STO is the most screwed up game in the story , you are blind. Period. Maybe you should use those glasses of your signature lol.
P.D.: Only with the stupid examples you write in your post, that says it all lol.
first of stop putting words in my mouth. Second off, I don't have a life time sub. Third yes there are problems. Throw a rock at a game, every game has problems. That's just the nature of the beast. But STO is probably the best game of givng back to the players.
BSGO didn't give TRIBBLE. WG every year gives you a pos tier 2 or 3 tank. STO is the only game I've seen so far that gives you a free end tier usable ship. Yeah lately we jump through hoops for it, but year 2, 1 mission and you got a free Odyssey. A ship I used or a LONG time till I decided to open up my wallet and pick some ships as I saw fit.
I am very objective. F2p saved this game. Period the end of story. sub was killing the game because people could not afford the subscription. But they COULD afford 20 bucks here cause of some overtime, 10 bucks there over time. Could be a year in between that 30 bucks I mentioned.
Sorry you're just sobbing because you seem to think that subscription based gave more content. Not really. Because of F2p, we are getting voice actors like Tim Russ or Micheal Dorn. They actually HAVE money to burn on better episodes or cleaning up and improving older ones to enjoy.
So please get off the high horse. There will NEVER be a bug free gaming utopia you seem so keen on demanding. NEVER EVER going to happen.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I also thinkg f2p saved this game. Of course. What im saying is, the model cryptic is following is really pathetic. Because they ONLY exclusively worry about gaining money. And you cant do that when its about a videogame, because there are people involved, and a videogame is about having fun.
But you keep trying to justify cryptic saying all the bugs we see are normal. LOL. You know, what i dont fk1 care. If thats what you think, well, good luck. Im done here ^^
Well, decent thread, but nobody with a brain cell could take that original thread seriously.
In as much as no one could take this one seriously either.
F2P is neither good or bad; there are good F2P models and bad ones. With the exception of lockboxes, I think Cryptic/PWE have a very good model for monetization. The problem for me is that those lockboxes are so bad that it overshadows the rest of the model.
In as much as no one could take this one seriously either.
F2P is neither good or bad; there are good F2P models and bad ones. With the exception of lockboxes, I think Cryptic/PWE have a very good model for monetization. The problem for me is that those lockboxes are so bad that it overshadows the rest of the model.
I'll agree with this BUT, it's the overall major money maker since they are ships that cannot be gotten any other way except the boxes.
Yes gaming companies like to put out games, but they put out ADDICTING games that make them MONEY.
They don't care about making epic games that you don't have to lift a finger to become the ultimate BAMF.
They care about money first, then the game might run a decent second.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
In as much as no one could take this one seriously either.
F2P is neither good or bad; there are good F2P models and bad ones. With the exception of lockboxes, I think Cryptic/PWE have a very good model for monetization. The problem for me is that those lockboxes are so bad that it overshadows the rest of the model.
IWhile I never use any of the lockbox style things in MMOs (though not sure if that's a F2P standard would make sense if it was), they are a standard. Only issue I take with STO method is they are loot drops you need to unlock. Clutters up my inventory.
All corporations do... *points at sig* It's why they exist. The main concern of a company should always be whether their business is profitable.
I've seen you espouse this before, but I think it's wrong. The first and foremost concern of business should be to deliver a good product or service to the consumer. If said product or service is seen as valuable by consumers, the money will inevitably come.
Modern business has forgotten this, and it's why things get more expensive yet poorer in quality. It's been affecting the game industry for years now too (the emphasis has been on massive PR and marketing campaigns), though the horizon looks a bit more optimistic thanks to competition from indie development.
You live in another world. STO is nothing like any other mmorpg i played (and i played A LOT). If you think its normal to have a game with the 75% content bugged
What kind of bull**** number is this? You make it sound like you can't make it through 5 missions without crashing, or getting stuck in it.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I've seen you espouse this before, but I think it's wrong. The first and foremost concern of business should be to deliver a good product or service to the consumer. If said product or service is seen as valuable by consumers, the money will inevitably come.
Modern business has forgotten this, and it's why things get more expensive yet poorer in quality. It's been affecting the game industry for years now too (the emphasis has been on massive PR and marketing campaigns), though the horizon looks a bit more optimistic thanks to competition from indie development.
Oh come now you complain about it but agree that it's the industry standard. They are not out to make the best game ever. They are out to make the MOST ADDICTIVE game ever and then milk the player population for $$$$.
Though like you said there are games on the horizon that might shake this up.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I agree with OP, F2P is the way to go. Many larger MMOs are doing it these days, with WoW being one of the exceptions. From what i've read about that game is that it is sagging in numbers and not doing so hot. I think people prefer to pay for what they want and not have t be forced to pay for subs....gives them more leeway. I am satisfied with STO and their policy. Like you guys have mentioned, everything I want can pretty much be earned from grinding and collecting.
I've seen you espouse this before, but I think it's wrong. The first and foremost concern of business should be to deliver a good product or service to the consumer. If said product or service is seen as valuable by consumers, the money will inevitably come.
Emphasis on "should". Not "is".
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
Oh come now you complain about it but agree that it's the industry standard. They are not out to make the best game ever. They are out to make the MOST ADDICTIVE game ever and then milk the player population for $$$$.
Though like you said there are games on the horizon that might shake this up.
There is two types of people in every gaming company, marketing and artists. Marketing doesn't care about a releasing a good product. All they care about is profits. Obviously a good product is going to sell more than a terrible product, but a good product costs more to create than a terrible product. Artists are mostly concerned with making a good product, but they tend to spend more time on certain projects than they should. So you can get an artist spending days on getting the lighting right when they should have only spent hours on it.
in response to "why free to play is very bad" i thought it would only be fair to lay some facts straight, because in that other thread it seems that opinions have turned into facts.
You could easily put your response to a thread into the thread. Thats how forums work you know?
If there isn't a rule against this there definitely SHOULD be one.
2)Does a subscription based model mean more and better content?
No, there is no evidence to support that...the feature episode releases in sto during the first year can't be seen as a measurement, since they most certainly were already partially finished before the game even launched.
Well there is a lot of evidence to support that.
Most important of all in common sense, something lot of F2P fans lack by nature.
In a subscription based game you pay for playing the game. Means the devs get money for letting you play the game. That means money can GO INTO the game = content.
In f2p Content is only showcase, the money is in the extra store. That means that is primary focus of development and content is only secondary. It being worst is the logical conclusion. Because if resources are limited... and they always are.... the priority is, in case of STO: C-Store ships and lockbox content. No bug fix, no mission, no content is touched before that isn't done.
3)Do you need any amount of real money to play and get any item/ship in this game?
with a hand full of exceptions, no. And those exceptions are optional, not mandatory. Some are even only visuals that have no impact in terms of gameplay.
That being an advantage is... lets just say against nature itself.
I don't get the modern way of thinking where people demand quality work on the one hand, but everything for free on the other hand.
I find it spiteful.
1) would STO or even cryptic be still around if they hadn't been bought by PWE and hadn't changed their games to a f2p model?
Cryptic wasn't a big gaming company in the first place. It's likely they would have been bought out by someone else if PWE didn't take over. So the answer is YES, the game would still exist.
2)Does a subscription based model mean more and better content?
MORE content doesn't equal BETTER content. Look at the rep systems in place now -- some have better cut scenes than others, but it's all just filler.
3)Do you need any amount of real money to play and get any item/ship in this game?
If it's in the Zen Store, it costs money. Those are usually the most OP ships with hangar bays. Also, you have to buy fleet modules to get fleet ships. It's like a tax on a supposedly free system. The "free" thing is only a veneer.
4) is a microtransaction model bad for impatient people?
It's their money to do with what they will. I just disagree with the model.
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
Comments
U never understand my words, dunno wy lol. I meant that there is no balance between how cryptic "cares" about their customers and their will to make money at all costs. So it doesnt matter how "good" is their f2p model. It is a fact like a temple.
Because you are talking about Cryptic owned by Atari... and Cryptic owned by pwe.
They are both traded companies and both have to post numbers. Not hard to find the info. Cryptic is more profitable then ever... a big part of that is STO, another big part is never winter.
I mean when PWE is putting things like this at the end of there earnings reports....
Based on the confidence in our current business and outlook, and as an appreciation to our
supporters, we distributed a cash dividend of approximately USD98 million to our
shareholders in April 2012. We will continue to build our business with an unwavering
commitment to creating value for our shareholders over time.
They are bringing in 80-100 million a quarter with margines north of 75%.... so if your wondering where they are spending the money.
I think you can assume they are happy with Cryptic. They don't talk much about STO in any of there reports... because they bought a game developer. They also as much as we STO players don't like the fact... picked up Cryptic because they had a licence agreement in place for neverwinter. That attracted PWE much more then STO or Champs... or even there people. Game design people move around all the time... the people if they stick around are just icing.
you forget.. those zen you got from exchange someone paid for..
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
So yes like many older PWE games STO is on a low dev - pay box track.
I can live with that honestly... it drives me nuts. Still it is what it is. Cryptic isn't all of a sudden going to spend a bunch of development really doing much more then the basics.
So many people seem to forget (not know) that. The only way to really play and not make Cryptic/PWE money... is to NEVER use the exchange for anything (even drop items) and to never ever use the D exchange.
What YOU do not understand, this is an industry standard. Throw a rock at a gaming company, most of them are this way.
Welcome to the new age of gaming.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Granted, I joined about a month or two after F2P really hit (missed Freebie-Oddy by a couple of weeks, but made European Launch event...)
At the time, the "big content releases" was 5 mission FEs that were "trickled" out to us over 5 week spans. Devidian arc, Hakeev, Breen, 4028/Dominion...
Now, if you count the "remastered" Borg/Undine arc's 4 missions, and the new special mission with Tuvok, we have the exact same amount of content, 5 missions, heck, the 5th mission is practically "movie level" while the finales of the previous FE arcs weren't much "meatier" than the average episode...
And, after hearing one (thousand) too many "stop time gating" complaints, they elected to dump all 5 missions on season-release day, instead of having a "big, weekly release" thing, starting, say, easter week and dropping a new Borg mission on a weekly basis till they get to S9...
And if you think about it, the past few seasons have had about this level of content, actually more, if you look past the "remastering" bit...
LoR: Entire Rommie mission arc, new KDF 'lowbie' missions. Season 8: Revamped Fed Tutorial.
Both sets of missions have more than 5 missions, which means they pumped more work into these "seasons" than they were back in the days of subscription & 5 missions over 5 weeks FEs...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
But since STO is F2P, and some other friends came over from a different server, raving about how much fun it was, here I am. And in the 6 months since, I have shelled out somthing like $200-300US for Zen & the Collector's Edition, apart from having a greater urgency to rebuild my old comp to stay in the game during events. If I weren't already a subscriber on my old "favorite" server, I suppose I'd be a gold member here, too.
P2W isn't something everyone is happy about, but it's a good thing there are plenty of gamers who prefer to win, or Cryptic would have a much smaller market for bells & whistles...;)
Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci
Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac
Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
Valdus | Charn | Costello | Typhus | Thyran
You live in another world. STO is nothing like any other mmorpg i played (and i played A LOT). If you think its normal to have a game with the 75% content bugged, and with so many fails, and so many of em really old, and some of em really easy to fix, you should play more, seriously. Im not saying the basics are not the same on every f2p, but the case of STO is really unique. If you cant see it, well you played a different game all this time. I played the most bugged game ever about 6 years ago, it was based in the world of hyboria (you can now discover what game im talking about lol but i cant name it since its not allowed). That was considered the most bugged game in the story of the videogames , until they started doing things right. They transformed the game in f2p and after that, all the bugs were fixed asap. Because they cared about players and their complains. And it was the most bugged game of the story in their beginnings (cataloged as it). And STO is far more bugged than that game in those times. With the difference, that cryptic is not worrying about fixing the game. SO, sorry but the case of STO is unique. I only wish people could see it, instead trying to justify every action of cryptic. Its really pathetic.
And what games have you played. Granted I haven't played all that much but the ones I have played are actually worse.
Big Points Battlestar Galctica online. Day one drop 500 bucks, you can have an end tier ship in 10 minutes and have enough left over to make it one fo the strongest ships on the server. IN 10 MINUTES.
Pirates of the burning sea. Again blatent money grabbing.
Swtor. Need I say more.
world of tanks. Drop 50 bucks, you got a nice shiny tier 8 tank with preferred Match making most times and it makes a TRIBBLE ton of credits so you never run out. Save up xp, drop money to convert XP you can go from tier 1 to tier 10 and with the credits you saved up on that nice shiny tier 8 tank you have enough to buy a tier 10 tank without all the grinind many free players do and then just play till your little heart's content.
War thunder, more of the same of world of tanks.
I mean do I REALLY have to go on? You say I'm living in a damn dream world? Wake up and smell the coffee pal. YOU ARE THE ONE LIVING IN A DREAM WORLD.
The whole online gaming industry is going this way and they are making money hand over fist.
Oh and every single game I listed, RIDDLED with bugs.
World lf tanks, there are parts of the map you can literally SHOOT through due to por programming. SWTOR, do I REALLY need to point out how biased it is towards button smashing classes? War thunder still doesn't have it quite right with it's mechanics.
Battlestar galactica online by the time I quit it had new bugs EVERY SINGLE PATCH. Seriously wake up man. Welcome to the new world.
Also, use the return key for christ sakes, I barely read that blob.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Well I somehow agree with you that they're slowly getting back on track, with Story Content ... but I see some flaws in your logic :
- 1 FE Series over 5 weeks was never ever a whole Season ("big content releases" as you call it), we got the Foundry, Klingon PVE Missions, Daily Missions, STFs etc (people seem to keep to forget that) -> we basically got a new Season, + 2 FE Series between Seasons (best case Scenario)
- I don't think the current FE has more "meat" than let's say "Cutting the Cord", I really enjoyed "Surface Tension", Cutscenes & Tuvok were great, but other than that, it was basically just "Shoot Stuff in Earth Orbit", "Shoot Stuff on ESD, "Shoot Stuff in Kronos Orbit"
- imho Season 8 Episode Revamp was pretty Meh (besides new Tutorial), you're right about S9, though ... tbh I found "Fluid Dynamics" more enjoyable than "Surface Tension"
I m not goint to even bother to read this.
But i dont need to. Its always the same story, yea you want your dear STO to keep living for a lot of years, we understand that. But you will never be objective. Probably you are a LFS or someone with a montly sub, with the need to justifiy it. I tell you again, if you cant see STO is the most screwed up game in the story , you are blind. Period. Maybe you should use those glasses of your signature lol.
P.D.: Only with the stupid examples you write in your post, that says it all lol.
There has to be something exclusive to Subscribers and LTS holders, otherwise there's no incentive to purchase one.
And frankly, the Vetship is hardly the most powerful ship in the game, so it's not as if having access to it means you're way ahead of everyone else.
You should. Talon made a selection of valid points.
first of stop putting words in my mouth. Second off, I don't have a life time sub. Third yes there are problems. Throw a rock at a game, every game has problems. That's just the nature of the beast. But STO is probably the best game of givng back to the players.
BSGO didn't give TRIBBLE. WG every year gives you a pos tier 2 or 3 tank. STO is the only game I've seen so far that gives you a free end tier usable ship. Yeah lately we jump through hoops for it, but year 2, 1 mission and you got a free Odyssey. A ship I used or a LONG time till I decided to open up my wallet and pick some ships as I saw fit.
I am very objective. F2p saved this game. Period the end of story. sub was killing the game because people could not afford the subscription. But they COULD afford 20 bucks here cause of some overtime, 10 bucks there over time. Could be a year in between that 30 bucks I mentioned.
Sorry you're just sobbing because you seem to think that subscription based gave more content. Not really. Because of F2p, we are getting voice actors like Tim Russ or Micheal Dorn. They actually HAVE money to burn on better episodes or cleaning up and improving older ones to enjoy.
So please get off the high horse. There will NEVER be a bug free gaming utopia you seem so keen on demanding. NEVER EVER going to happen.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I also thinkg f2p saved this game. Of course. What im saying is, the model cryptic is following is really pathetic. Because they ONLY exclusively worry about gaining money. And you cant do that when its about a videogame, because there are people involved, and a videogame is about having fun.
But you keep trying to justify cryptic saying all the bugs we see are normal. LOL. You know, what i dont fk1 care. If thats what you think, well, good luck. Im done here ^^
In as much as no one could take this one seriously either.
F2P is neither good or bad; there are good F2P models and bad ones. With the exception of lockboxes, I think Cryptic/PWE have a very good model for monetization. The problem for me is that those lockboxes are so bad that it overshadows the rest of the model.
I'll agree with this BUT, it's the overall major money maker since they are ships that cannot be gotten any other way except the boxes.
Yes gaming companies like to put out games, but they put out ADDICTING games that make them MONEY.
They don't care about making epic games that you don't have to lift a finger to become the ultimate BAMF.
They care about money first, then the game might run a decent second.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
My character Tsin'xing
I've seen you espouse this before, but I think it's wrong. The first and foremost concern of business should be to deliver a good product or service to the consumer. If said product or service is seen as valuable by consumers, the money will inevitably come.
Modern business has forgotten this, and it's why things get more expensive yet poorer in quality. It's been affecting the game industry for years now too (the emphasis has been on massive PR and marketing campaigns), though the horizon looks a bit more optimistic thanks to competition from indie development.
Oh come now you complain about it but agree that it's the industry standard. They are not out to make the best game ever. They are out to make the MOST ADDICTIVE game ever and then milk the player population for $$$$.
Though like you said there are games on the horizon that might shake this up.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Emphasis on "should". Not "is".
There is two types of people in every gaming company, marketing and artists. Marketing doesn't care about a releasing a good product. All they care about is profits. Obviously a good product is going to sell more than a terrible product, but a good product costs more to create than a terrible product. Artists are mostly concerned with making a good product, but they tend to spend more time on certain projects than they should. So you can get an artist spending days on getting the lighting right when they should have only spent hours on it.
You could easily put your response to a thread into the thread. Thats how forums work you know?
If there isn't a rule against this there definitely SHOULD be one.
Well there is a lot of evidence to support that.
Most important of all in common sense, something lot of F2P fans lack by nature.
In a subscription based game you pay for playing the game. Means the devs get money for letting you play the game. That means money can GO INTO the game = content.
In f2p Content is only showcase, the money is in the extra store. That means that is primary focus of development and content is only secondary. It being worst is the logical conclusion. Because if resources are limited... and they always are.... the priority is, in case of STO: C-Store ships and lockbox content. No bug fix, no mission, no content is touched before that isn't done.
That being an advantage is... lets just say against nature itself.
I don't get the modern way of thinking where people demand quality work on the one hand, but everything for free on the other hand.
I find it spiteful.
MORE content doesn't equal BETTER content. Look at the rep systems in place now -- some have better cut scenes than others, but it's all just filler.
If it's in the Zen Store, it costs money. Those are usually the most OP ships with hangar bays. Also, you have to buy fleet modules to get fleet ships. It's like a tax on a supposedly free system. The "free" thing is only a veneer.
It's their money to do with what they will. I just disagree with the model.