As much as I hated Voyager, I'll admit its the only show of the franchise that I think could actually BENEFIT from a re-boot by J.J.
. . . *ducks for cover, just in case*
But consider it redone with the raw humanity that was originally put into LOST. Could have been epic.
JJ's TV work is actually quite good, TBH, and frankly anything would be an improvement of that ridiculous morass we actually got.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Agree with most posts here. Chakotay's character did indeed come off to me overly focused on his Indian-ness. No real reason either. Unfortunately for him and a bunch of other characters he got side tracked by Seven.
You know what makes it worse? Chakotay's "indianness" was all wrong. The consultant Rick Berman hired was "Jamake Highwater" or as he should really be called: Jay Marks - a conman who made millions of dollars by writing fake and inaccurate depictions of Native Americans and actively worked against helping Native Americans by perpetuating stereotypes.
Its even more facepalmingly awful when you remember that Hollywood is near UCLA which has one of the largest Native American Studies programs in the country. *facepalm*
I also wonder how many idiots think FLUIDIC SPACE is an actual science 'thing' thanks to Voyager. I also enjoy how many fans just ignored that Voyager was built for the vaccum of space and should have been crushed INSTANTLY under the pressure like an empty beer can. Lets hope that new Undine Space Set gives us 50K shield facings to compensate for NOT BEING A FRIGGIN SUBMARINE!!! lol
I also wonder how many idiots think FLUIDIC SPACE is an actual science 'thing' thanks to Voyager. I also enjoy how many fans just ignored that Voyager was built for the vaccum of space and should have been crushed INSTANTLY under the pressure like an empty beer can. Lets hope that new Undine Space Set gives us 50K shield facings to compensate for NOT BEING A FRIGGIN SUBMARINE!!! lol
Fluidic Space is not a science thing, but it's obviously not part of what we would call "our universe" in Startrek. It's a parallel universe with different rules that happen to be compatible enough that we can travel between universes without being suddenly falling apart, exploding, collapsing or whatever else could happen if physical laws are suddenly different. They didn't show us all the failed Borg attempts to explore new universes to conquer, where cubes and drones underwent hilarious transformations before they ended up quite dead.
And the Voyager is capable of atmospheric flight* and landing on planetary surfaces, so it probably can handle some pressure.
*) That doesn't mean aerodynamic flight.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I also wonder how many idiots think FLUIDIC SPACE is an actual science 'thing' thanks to Voyager. I also enjoy how many fans just ignored that Voyager was built for the vaccum of space and should have been crushed INSTANTLY under the pressure like an empty beer can. Lets hope that new Undine Space Set gives us 50K shield facings to compensate for NOT BEING A FRIGGIN SUBMARINE!!! lol
Ah, yes, the Futurama "anywhere between zero and one atmospheres" argument. It's bull****. A structure, be it a building or a starship, also has to be able to withstand the force of its own mass, a far greater force than mere air pressure. A starship also has to withstand acceleration forces, and a combat starship the force of enemy weapons fire.
See also DS9: "Starship Down" where Sisko takes the Defiant deep into the atmosphere of a gas giant to hide from some Jem bugs. There is a crush depth, yes, but it's much deeper than you people give them credit for.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Ships have been seen to be able to penetrate atmospheres throughout star trek.
Kirk's Enterprise in Tomorrow is Yeseterday.
Klingon Birds of Prey throughout the franchise.
Defiant as mentioned above (technical manuals even state the Defiant has landing struts much like Voyager does)
Enterprise NX in Broken Bow and Storm Front II.
They have shields, inertial dampeners and structural integrity fields for a reason.
*******************************************
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
I never understood this. I mean, even STID showed that ships have thrusters that lift them out of orbit. Granted, Voyager was ahead of, and therefore more advanced than, the connie. But damn. Prior to the reboot, ships were built IN SPACE. So how could Voyager "fly?"
Yes, I know antigrav exists in Trek -- that's how post-ENT shuttles work. Or something. But those are small craft, MUCH lighter than a full-sized space ship. So I exclude those from my confusion.
Also the landing struts make a lot of sense in case of an emergency. It would depend on the design of the ship and whatnot, but I can see why they would be there.
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
LOL Voyager is still TRIBBLE. I really couldnt care less if it could land. It was just another plot convenience contrived quite suddenly to somehow make Voyager have a cool feature like saucer sep. Fail, fail and fail.
Ships have been seen to be able to penetrate atmospheres throughout star trek.
Kirk's Enterprise in Tomorrow is Yeseterday.
Klingon Birds of Prey throughout the franchise.
Defiant as mentioned above (technical manuals even state the Defiant has landing struts much like Voyager does)
Enterprise NX in Broken Bow and Storm Front II.
They have shields, inertial dampeners and structural integrity fields for a reason.
And for that matter, the JJ-prise hiding beneath the surface of an ocean (as in, corrosive salt water) in the opening scene of STID, then emerging none the worse for wear.
Ships have been seen to be able to penetrate atmospheres throughout star trek.
Kirk's Enterprise in Tomorrow is Yeseterday.
Klingon Birds of Prey throughout the franchise.
Defiant as mentioned above (technical manuals even state the Defiant has landing struts much like Voyager does)
Enterprise NX in Broken Bow and Storm Front II.
They have shields, inertial dampeners and structural integrity fields for a reason.
There was a really nice picture of a landed defiant on the cover of a german magazine called "trekworld" more then 15 years ago^^
And for that matter, the JJ-prise hiding beneath the surface of an ocean (as in, corrosive salt water) in the opening scene of STID, then emerging none the worse for wear.
Indeed, but given the general hatred this forum gives to anything JJ, I deliberately left that one out.
*******************************************
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
The exploration of life and religion, new cultures and threats from the far side of the galaxy was trek enough?
The best ongoing storylines in modern tv-sf?
The best villians in Star Trek since the Borg?
The single best hour of television in the 90's with 'In the Pale Moonlight'? <---if you argue this, I will say really mean things about you that will almost violate the posting terms and conditions.
So much combat you could TRIBBLE duranium shadows?
I'll agree it wasn't monsters of the week in our shiny spaceship. But for the 90's it was a nice change of pace for what some might call a tired format.
While "In the Pale Moonlight" is certainly among my top 10 favorite episodes the "best hour of Television" was "Best part of both worlds".
How it should have ended... Use the caretaker equipment to send Voyager back to the Alpha quadrant and leave a tricobalt warhead on the station on a timer!!! Kazon didn't have transporter technology! ... Like when they beamed a photon torpedo on the borg ship.
Should have been a stand alone movie instead of a series ending with the Paris and Torres having a baby from the prison colony vowing revenge against Janeway lol .
Possible Sequel? Wrath of Torres?
Yeah I always thought that "how it should have ended" internet series should make such an episode.....^^
And for that matter, the JJ-prise hiding beneath the surface of an ocean (as in, corrosive salt water) in the opening scene of STID, then emerging none the worse for wear.
Yeah, if only the had some 'sheilds' or something that would keep the salt away from the hull...
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
At the time it Aired there wasnt anything star trekkie on tv to compete with Voyarger..........So in that respect it did well in the absence of nothing competing with it
Endless supplies...........
Endless torpedos........
No ship repairs in relation to the damage taken...........
Everything always clean and tidy........
My headcanon, and this IS supported by comments made in a few eps, is that, unless explicitly stated otherwise, there are gaps of several weeks or months between eps. Soooo.... the oft quoted plotholes, of "endless" x, y, or Z are explainable as the crew making/finding more between episodes. And repairs.... If you have a month for repairs between eps then yeah....
No crew interaction to speak of...........It should have been a lot more exploring new worlds to gather resources with crew interaction imo
Some eps WERE like that.... granted not the majority of them, but I suspect that finding an uninhabited rock and mining kelbonite from it would have made for a very soap-opera sort of episode....
Voyarger should have looked like the submarine in Das Boot with supplies crowding every square inch of the ship after leaving a planet
And when returning to earth instead of being promoted to Admiral.... janeway would have been court martialed and placed in military prison
Or if it had been reality she would have went to her ready room ..had a cup of coffee before starfleet boarded her ship in the last episode
and placed a phaser to her head to avoid that
It's like what Jack Sparrow said about the Pirates Code.... the regulations are more suggestions than mandates. Any one of them can be broken IF you have a good enough reason to do it.
but still at the time it was the best thing on tv sci fi related and i watched it every week
I actually didn't mind voyager so much (keep in mind the game Elite Force was my first introduction to the Star Trek universe, so I watched voyager as it was familiar to me... Also I was only 8 at the time :P)
The main things that bugged me were
1. The Borg. Seriously. The pointless filler for when you need something going on.
Want some drama? The Borg. Q junior comes on the ship and wants to mess things up? The Borg.
We need an alien crew member to spice things up? You guessed it, the Borg. I mean, there were so many other species out there that could be played with. 8472, the Hirogen, the life forms on Equinox and so on.
2. The maquis. "A band of rebellious freedom fighters against Starfleet you say? How about I take them on as crew members, give them a ranks and positions and expect them to fill it, heck, why don't I make one my first officer so they 'know their place' even though Tuvok would be a much better candidate?". C'mon Janeway, just no. And there's so much wasted potential there as a plot device, surely they wouldn't just fit in like they did. I know they had a minor incident where they rebelled, but there should've been more. There should've been more conflict between Tuvok and Chakotay as well, I mean sure Tuvok is a Vulcan but he should be pissed that some random criminal gets promoted to commander and takes on a role senior to him.
3. Seven and Janeway. How many times did Seven disobey and undermine Janeway? Rather than dealing with her like a regular crew member, she shrugs it off as 'she's only learning'. However, Seven came from the Borg, only the most 'orderly' beings who 'strived for perfection' so she should have no issues following instructions. Also, Janeway didn't do a good job at striving to make her human as she never learnt to be accountable for her actions - even the EMH got disciplined more!
And for the big finale (although I have so much more to rant about) Janeway herself. As it was mentioned before they put too much emphasis on her trying to overcome being a woman captain. The problem is, while doing so she displayed qualities that showed her inability to be a Starfleet officer in the first place, let alone a captain. How many times did she blatantly disobey protocol and the prime directive? She was even relieved of command by the EMH. Upon arrival to Earth she should've been stripped of her commission and sent to prison. But no, there's that reset button again - congratulations, admiral. Heck, I think even the doctor as the 'Emergency Command Hologram' would've made a better captain....
My headcanon, and this IS supported by comments made in a few eps, is that, unless explicitly stated otherwise, there are gaps of several weeks or months between eps. Soooo.... the oft quoted plotholes, of "endless" x, y, or Z are explainable as the crew making/finding more between episodes. And repairs.... If you have a month for repairs between eps then yeah....
The way Star Trek works is, 1 season = 1 in-universe year from beginning to end. So all of season 1 of TNG takes place in 2364, all of season 2 of DS9 takes place in 2370, and all of VOY season 3 takes place in 2373. (VOY's a little weird here initially because season 1 was only half-length, so part of season 2 is in the same year as season 1, but it sorts itself out later.)
So, with an average of 26 episodes per season and 52 weeks in a year, you've got 2 weeks per episode to play with.
It's like what Jack Sparrow said about the Pirates Code.... the regulations are more suggestions than mandates. Any one of them can be broken IF you have a good enough reason to do it.
The problem is, VOY failed to provide sufficient justification for Janeway's rulebreaking 99% of the time. Some examples of sufficient justification for rule-breaking. (I'm using DS9 because it's the series I know the best, not because I don't believe the other series had such cases.)
DS9: "Captive Pursuit". O'Brien comes close to violating the PD (I'm not sure whether he actually broke it because the Hunters interfered with DS9 first), breaks a prisoner out of lawful custody, and is a party to the death of a foreign military officer. He did this because the prisoner, Tosk, was the purpose-bred target of a foreign blood sport and they'd accidentally gotten him dishonored. Sisko chews O'Brien out for appearances' sake and lets him off because he didn't like the hunters either.
DS9: "The Siege". Sisko et al. violate a direct order to abandon DS9, along with making an apparent PD violation, because they sincerely believe, with good reason, that should the Circle take over Bajor it will unintentionally open the way for the Cardies to come back. They get away with it because they were able to prove that Cardassian intelligence was in fact egging the whole thing on, so the PD issue doesn't actually apply and the faction in favor of ejecting the Federation loses all its political credibility and they get invited back.
DS9: "In the Pale Moonlight". Sisko becomes a party to assassination of a foreign political figure as part of an elaborate con job in order to bring the Romulans into the war. He hates himself for it, but it most likely was necessary: The Federation and Klingons were in a stalemate with the Dominion, one which favored the other side in the long run because Jem'Hadar and Vorta can be replaced much faster than Starfleet or the KDF can replace their own soldiers. And the Dominion winning was known to be a phenomenally bad thing since we and the main cast have seen, personally, the things they get up to. They condemned one species to a slow extinction by genetic warfare ("The Quickening"), gave a list of ships and colonies they had destroyed for entering space they had not previously exercised control over ("The Jem'Hadar"), attempted to blow up an inhabited star system ("By Inferno's Light"), and had stated an intent to preemptively glass Earth (forgot the episode). Bringing the region's third superpower into the war meant billions of lives saved, at the cost of "the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal... and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain." But the thing about DS9 is that the episode lets you draw your own conclusion about whether Sisko was right or not, whereas VOY tended to go with "the captain is always right".
Contrast "Scorpion". The actions the Undine took against Voyager that were viewed as evil and hostile are actually completely understandable without invoking omnicidal villainy. The cast were tromping around an active war zone composed of species not known to possess the Federation's extreme-for-the-setting degrees of moral compunctions,* and got shot at by an Undine ship that has never seen anybody from the Federation before. And then Kes comes in and says the Undine are omnicidal because space pixie magic, and Janeway suddenly feels justified in helping the Borg exterminate a species that she knows frak-all about and thereby letting the Collective remain an apocalyptic threat to future generations.
* To clarify, I'm not saying that the Federation having these moral compunctions is a bad thing. It's just that other cultures in ST usually don't share them and a lot of people on both sides of the fourth wall tend to forget that.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
The way Star Trek works is, 1 season = 1 in-universe year from beginning to end. So all of season 1 of TNG takes place in 2364, all of season 2 of DS9 takes place in 2370, and all of VOY season 3 takes place in 2373. (VOY's a little weird here initially because season 1 was only half-length, so part of season 2 is in the same year as season 1, but it sorts itself out later.)
So, with an average of 26 episodes per season and 52 weeks in a year, you've got 2 weeks per episode to play with.
Assuming that's true, which I find doubtful, that's plenty of time IMO. Source?
The problem is, VOY failed to provide sufficient justification for Janeway's rulebreaking 99% of the time. Some examples of sufficient justification for rule-breaking. (I'm using DS9 because it's the series I know the best, not because I don't believe the other series had such cases.)
Here's the thing... you're acting as though non-explanation is the same as non-existence. It's not.
Here's the thing... you're acting as though non-explanation is the same as non-existence. It's not.
No, I'm arguing that rule-breaking is an extreme action, that extreme actions require extreme justifications, and that the justifications presented by VOY generally do not meet requirements.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
No, I'm arguing that rule-breaking is an extreme action, that extreme actions require extreme justifications, and that the justifications presented by VOY generally do not meet requirements.
"Extreme" is a relative term. The majority of the "extremeness" required to justify Janeway's actions is based on the fact that she CAN'T call SF HQ for permission, and must decide on her own whether to do things or not. The standard thing seen in most of the series where the captain calls SF for directions doesn't apply to Voyager at all. Therefore Janeway's not-quite-a-diplomat shtick is actually permitted by Starfleet regulations.
And for that matter, the JJ-prise hiding beneath the surface of an ocean (as in, corrosive salt water) in the opening scene of STID, then emerging none the worse for wear.
How susceptible to rust is duranium?
I didn't mind Janeway's captaining for the most part, and I think the harsh tone she took with her crew appropriate(except the favourite child Seven). Frankly I thought Picard let Riker barge in his office and "speak freely" a little too often.
I didn't mind Janeway's captaining for the most part, and I think the harsh tone she took with her crew appropriate(except the favourite child Seven). Frankly I thought Picard let Riker barge in his office and "speak freely" a little too often.
Except Picard would listen to Riker's advice when the situation deemed necessary, Janeway rarely listened to Chakotay
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Okay, so we've established she listened to him about little stupid things, but not things of galactic importance. Glad that's clear.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,449Community Moderator
edited May 2014
Glad I'm not the only one who realizes Voyager was alone in the Delta Quadrant and survival was a major consideration to the rules. Janeway tried to stick to the regs, but when survival became an issue, fangs out.
The whole Equinox thing was an example. Ransom sunk to a level that Janeway would never even consider, capturing and killing members of an alien species to augment the Warp Core to squeeze out a bit more speed. Janeway was well within her rights as a Starfleet Captain to bust him for that.
He did say rarely, and I agree with that assessment. For the most part she just said "objection noted, I've made my decision" and then he stood there looking disappointed. Two extremes there come to think of it. If I recall correctly the one time he took a firm stance he was locked in his quarters.
For me personally, Voyager was the point where Star Trek 'jumped the shark'. I was extremely tolerant of Star Trek in general, but after the warp X salamander babies, I could not longer watch.
I will admit to in later years watching reruns, and a few were stand outs. Year of Hell seems singularly interesting as decent scifi.
But in all honesty, Voyager wasn't 'my' Star Trek.
I was raised on Classic Trek, found my own love of TNG. DS9 was a guilty pleasure.
Enterprise had a great last season, but it was too little, too late.
Glad I'm not the only one who realizes Voyager was alone in the Delta Quadrant and survival was a major consideration to the rules. Janeway tried to stick to the regs, but when survival became an issue, fangs out.
The whole Equinox thing was an example. Ransom sunk to a level that Janeway would never even consider, capturing and killing members of an alien species to augment the Warp Core to squeeze out a bit more speed. Janeway was well within her rights as a Starfleet Captain to bust him for that.
Pfft. Equinox was the show VOY should have been all the time. Ransom was completely correct that for a ship supposedly cut off from Starfleet, Voyager was doing just ****ing fine. "It's easy to cling to your principles when you're standing on a vessel with its bulkheads intact, manned by a crew that's not starving."
And Janeway sunk way past Ransom's level well before he ever turned up: at least Ransom wasn't guilty of treason against the Federation. And Janeway may have been within her rights to bust him, but tell me where she was within her rights to try to space one of his crew. That's attempted murder of an unarmed prisoner added to her rap sheet.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
LOL - To this day, I'm still pissed they didnt get Ben to play Nero.
"Hello Christopher, I'm Nero." - was SOOOOO a Ben line from LOST.
http://www.thescrib.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/ben_linus1.jpg
He would have been a PERFECT Romulan.
You know what makes it worse? Chakotay's "indianness" was all wrong. The consultant Rick Berman hired was "Jamake Highwater" or as he should really be called: Jay Marks - a conman who made millions of dollars by writing fake and inaccurate depictions of Native Americans and actively worked against helping Native Americans by perpetuating stereotypes.
Its even more facepalmingly awful when you remember that Hollywood is near UCLA which has one of the largest Native American Studies programs in the country. *facepalm*
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
I also wonder how many idiots think FLUIDIC SPACE is an actual science 'thing' thanks to Voyager. I also enjoy how many fans just ignored that Voyager was built for the vaccum of space and should have been crushed INSTANTLY under the pressure like an empty beer can. Lets hope that new Undine Space Set gives us 50K shield facings to compensate for NOT BEING A FRIGGIN SUBMARINE!!! lol
Fluidic Space is not a science thing, but it's obviously not part of what we would call "our universe" in Startrek. It's a parallel universe with different rules that happen to be compatible enough that we can travel between universes without being suddenly falling apart, exploding, collapsing or whatever else could happen if physical laws are suddenly different. They didn't show us all the failed Borg attempts to explore new universes to conquer, where cubes and drones underwent hilarious transformations before they ended up quite dead.
And the Voyager is capable of atmospheric flight* and landing on planetary surfaces, so it probably can handle some pressure.
*) That doesn't mean aerodynamic flight.)
Ah, yes, the Futurama "anywhere between zero and one atmospheres" argument. It's bull****. A structure, be it a building or a starship, also has to be able to withstand the force of its own mass, a far greater force than mere air pressure. A starship also has to withstand acceleration forces, and a combat starship the force of enemy weapons fire.
See also DS9: "Starship Down" where Sisko takes the Defiant deep into the atmosphere of a gas giant to hide from some Jem bugs. There is a crush depth, yes, but it's much deeper than you people give them credit for.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Kirk's Enterprise in Tomorrow is Yeseterday.
Klingon Birds of Prey throughout the franchise.
Defiant as mentioned above (technical manuals even state the Defiant has landing struts much like Voyager does)
Enterprise NX in Broken Bow and Storm Front II.
They have shields, inertial dampeners and structural integrity fields for a reason.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
I never understood this. I mean, even STID showed that ships have thrusters that lift them out of orbit. Granted, Voyager was ahead of, and therefore more advanced than, the connie. But damn. Prior to the reboot, ships were built IN SPACE. So how could Voyager "fly?"
Yes, I know antigrav exists in Trek -- that's how post-ENT shuttles work. Or something. But those are small craft, MUCH lighter than a full-sized space ship. So I exclude those from my confusion.
Also the landing struts make a lot of sense in case of an emergency. It would depend on the design of the ship and whatnot, but I can see why they would be there.
And for that matter, the JJ-prise hiding beneath the surface of an ocean (as in, corrosive salt water) in the opening scene of STID, then emerging none the worse for wear.
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There was a really nice picture of a landed defiant on the cover of a german magazine called "trekworld" more then 15 years ago^^
Not canon but nice.
Indeed, but given the general hatred this forum gives to anything JJ, I deliberately left that one out.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
While "In the Pale Moonlight" is certainly among my top 10 favorite episodes the "best hour of Television" was "Best part of both worlds".
Yeah I always thought that "how it should have ended" internet series should make such an episode.....^^
Yeah, if only the had some 'sheilds' or something that would keep the salt away from the hull...
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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My character Tsin'xing
The main things that bugged me were
1. The Borg. Seriously. The pointless filler for when you need something going on.
Want some drama? The Borg. Q junior comes on the ship and wants to mess things up? The Borg.
We need an alien crew member to spice things up? You guessed it, the Borg. I mean, there were so many other species out there that could be played with. 8472, the Hirogen, the life forms on Equinox and so on.
2. The maquis. "A band of rebellious freedom fighters against Starfleet you say? How about I take them on as crew members, give them a ranks and positions and expect them to fill it, heck, why don't I make one my first officer so they 'know their place' even though Tuvok would be a much better candidate?". C'mon Janeway, just no. And there's so much wasted potential there as a plot device, surely they wouldn't just fit in like they did. I know they had a minor incident where they rebelled, but there should've been more. There should've been more conflict between Tuvok and Chakotay as well, I mean sure Tuvok is a Vulcan but he should be pissed that some random criminal gets promoted to commander and takes on a role senior to him.
3. Seven and Janeway. How many times did Seven disobey and undermine Janeway? Rather than dealing with her like a regular crew member, she shrugs it off as 'she's only learning'. However, Seven came from the Borg, only the most 'orderly' beings who 'strived for perfection' so she should have no issues following instructions. Also, Janeway didn't do a good job at striving to make her human as she never learnt to be accountable for her actions - even the EMH got disciplined more!
And for the big finale (although I have so much more to rant about) Janeway herself. As it was mentioned before they put too much emphasis on her trying to overcome being a woman captain. The problem is, while doing so she displayed qualities that showed her inability to be a Starfleet officer in the first place, let alone a captain. How many times did she blatantly disobey protocol and the prime directive? She was even relieved of command by the EMH. Upon arrival to Earth she should've been stripped of her commission and sent to prison. But no, there's that reset button again - congratulations, admiral. Heck, I think even the doctor as the 'Emergency Command Hologram' would've made a better captain....
So, with an average of 26 episodes per season and 52 weeks in a year, you've got 2 weeks per episode to play with.
The problem is, VOY failed to provide sufficient justification for Janeway's rulebreaking 99% of the time. Some examples of sufficient justification for rule-breaking. (I'm using DS9 because it's the series I know the best, not because I don't believe the other series had such cases.)
DS9: "Captive Pursuit". O'Brien comes close to violating the PD (I'm not sure whether he actually broke it because the Hunters interfered with DS9 first), breaks a prisoner out of lawful custody, and is a party to the death of a foreign military officer. He did this because the prisoner, Tosk, was the purpose-bred target of a foreign blood sport and they'd accidentally gotten him dishonored. Sisko chews O'Brien out for appearances' sake and lets him off because he didn't like the hunters either.
DS9: "The Siege". Sisko et al. violate a direct order to abandon DS9, along with making an apparent PD violation, because they sincerely believe, with good reason, that should the Circle take over Bajor it will unintentionally open the way for the Cardies to come back. They get away with it because they were able to prove that Cardassian intelligence was in fact egging the whole thing on, so the PD issue doesn't actually apply and the faction in favor of ejecting the Federation loses all its political credibility and they get invited back.
DS9: "In the Pale Moonlight". Sisko becomes a party to assassination of a foreign political figure as part of an elaborate con job in order to bring the Romulans into the war. He hates himself for it, but it most likely was necessary: The Federation and Klingons were in a stalemate with the Dominion, one which favored the other side in the long run because Jem'Hadar and Vorta can be replaced much faster than Starfleet or the KDF can replace their own soldiers. And the Dominion winning was known to be a phenomenally bad thing since we and the main cast have seen, personally, the things they get up to. They condemned one species to a slow extinction by genetic warfare ("The Quickening"), gave a list of ships and colonies they had destroyed for entering space they had not previously exercised control over ("The Jem'Hadar"), attempted to blow up an inhabited star system ("By Inferno's Light"), and had stated an intent to preemptively glass Earth (forgot the episode). Bringing the region's third superpower into the war meant billions of lives saved, at the cost of "the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal... and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain." But the thing about DS9 is that the episode lets you draw your own conclusion about whether Sisko was right or not, whereas VOY tended to go with "the captain is always right".
Contrast "Scorpion". The actions the Undine took against Voyager that were viewed as evil and hostile are actually completely understandable without invoking omnicidal villainy. The cast were tromping around an active war zone composed of species not known to possess the Federation's extreme-for-the-setting degrees of moral compunctions,* and got shot at by an Undine ship that has never seen anybody from the Federation before. And then Kes comes in and says the Undine are omnicidal because space pixie magic, and Janeway suddenly feels justified in helping the Borg exterminate a species that she knows frak-all about and thereby letting the Collective remain an apocalyptic threat to future generations.
* To clarify, I'm not saying that the Federation having these moral compunctions is a bad thing. It's just that other cultures in ST usually don't share them and a lot of people on both sides of the fourth wall tend to forget that.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
My character Tsin'xing
No, I'm arguing that rule-breaking is an extreme action, that extreme actions require extreme justifications, and that the justifications presented by VOY generally do not meet requirements.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
My character Tsin'xing
How susceptible to rust is duranium?
I didn't mind Janeway's captaining for the most part, and I think the harsh tone she took with her crew appropriate(except the favourite child Seven). Frankly I thought Picard let Riker barge in his office and "speak freely" a little too often.
Except Picard would listen to Riker's advice when the situation deemed necessary, Janeway rarely listened to Chakotay
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
My character Tsin'xing
Okay, so we've established she listened to him about little stupid things, but not things of galactic importance. Glad that's clear.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The whole Equinox thing was an example. Ransom sunk to a level that Janeway would never even consider, capturing and killing members of an alien species to augment the Warp Core to squeeze out a bit more speed. Janeway was well within her rights as a Starfleet Captain to bust him for that.
He did say rarely, and I agree with that assessment. For the most part she just said "objection noted, I've made my decision" and then he stood there looking disappointed. Two extremes there come to think of it. If I recall correctly the one time he took a firm stance he was locked in his quarters.
I will admit to in later years watching reruns, and a few were stand outs. Year of Hell seems singularly interesting as decent scifi.
But in all honesty, Voyager wasn't 'my' Star Trek.
I was raised on Classic Trek, found my own love of TNG. DS9 was a guilty pleasure.
Enterprise had a great last season, but it was too little, too late.
Pfft. Equinox was the show VOY should have been all the time. Ransom was completely correct that for a ship supposedly cut off from Starfleet, Voyager was doing just ****ing fine. "It's easy to cling to your principles when you're standing on a vessel with its bulkheads intact, manned by a crew that's not starving."
And Janeway sunk way past Ransom's level well before he ever turned up: at least Ransom wasn't guilty of treason against the Federation. And Janeway may have been within her rights to bust him, but tell me where she was within her rights to try to space one of his crew. That's attempted murder of an unarmed prisoner added to her rap sheet.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
To be fair, Kate Mulgrew was a last minute change as the role of Captain since Genevi