Just going to nip these right in the bud since it's Geko and Geko's always been abundantly clear about the "cost" of certain things that Science ships get (and later cruisers) ...
Cruiser Commands are not going to be placed on a ship that has Sub System Targeting on it. That's a hard delineation that the devs use for ship classification. Science ships get sub system targeting (and pay a price for it). Cruisers get cruiser commands. The two don't mix. It's one or the other. No science ships have cruiser commands. No cruisers have sub system targeting.
And the price of sub system targeting is a weapons slot. That's been explicitly stated by Geko in the past. Science ships don't get the 4th frontal weapon because according to Geko and layout itemization budget constraints, they pay for sub system targeting with the weapon.
So while those may seem like wonderful suggestions, they're two things I really don't see Geko doing. Ever.
Just going to nip these right in the bud since it's Geko and Geko's always been abundantly clear about the "cost" of certain things that Science ships get (and later cruisers) ...
Cruiser Commands are not going to be placed on a ship that has Sub System Targeting on it. That's a hard delineation that the devs use for ship classification. Science ships get sub system targeting (and pay a price for it). Cruisers get cruiser commands. The two don't mix. It's one or the other. No science ships have cruiser commands. No cruisers have sub system targeting.
And the price of sub system targeting is a weapons slot. That's been explicitly stated by Geko in the past. Science ships don't get the 4th frontal weapon because according to Geko and layout itemization budget constraints, they pay for sub system targeting with the weapon.
So while those may seem like wonderful suggestions, they're two things I really don't see Geko doing. Ever.
There's always hope that Al changes his mind on things. The Nebula could definitely use a 4/3 slot when you compare it to the Vesta which even with just 3 - can load cannons - (aux cannons too) and has 4 tac slots!! The Vesta Seriously outclasses the Nebula with the 3 beams(or 2 beams + 1 torp) and 2 tac consoles.
Wait. Wait stop. They just said that they didn't want to do anything to the Aquarius despite that they know it sucks, but then they want to go and buff the Vesta? One of the best sci ships in the game?
wtf
Seriously. wtf
Edit: Oh and expect the Neb to get a hangar bay. That's what Cryptic calls a ship revamp these days.
Wait. Wait stop. They just said that they didn't want to do anything to the Aquarius despite that they know it sucks, but then they want to go and buff the Vesta? One of the best sci ships in the game?
wtf
Seriously. wtf
Do you want the real answer? Al likes 3 packs - he is on record saying this. Vesta comes in a 3 pack. Buffing the Vesta could equal a pop in sales for an "older" 3-pack with little dev time involved.
The Aquarius is NOT a 3-pack. The Aquarius is not a C-store ship. And even worse I think you need minimum a T4 shipyard to get it.
They could sell thousands of Vestas and even Nebulas by giving them a buff. They might sell a few Aquarius at most. Big return of buffing Vesta and Nebula. Almost no return buffing Aquarius.
If that's seriously how Al thinks, then any and all hope there was left for balance in this game is now gone. I can totally see buffing up the Neb and other low performing C-store ships to get a bump in sales. But taking already very powerful ships that need absolutely nothing done to them and giving them even more buffs is insane. Destroying your game balance for a bump in sales does nothing to help anyone in the long run. I thought they learned this when they started to make the rep changes. I guess I was wrong.
As someone who flies the vesta a lot, and feels it sets the standard above and beyond all current science vessels, I'm quite shocked to see this! Why not buff the science ships that REALLY need it? Now of course any buff even to the vesta is still welcome, the federation always needs more power to keep up with their space Elf friends the Romulans these days. But seriously, buff the Intrepid first and give that a 3-pack!
I'm one of the seemingly few people whom appear to believe that the Vesta's squishy hull is too high a price to pay for the very fluffy advantages it has. I actually consider the Fleet Intrepid superior.
Giving the Vesta "some love" by the way of upping its hull would be one way of having me get over my bias against it.
For me, what would make me like it more would probably be giving it more 'auxiliary-powered' weapon variety. The whole focus on aux cannons is one of its major turnoffs for me, and it allowing directed energy weapon diversity would be a huge very synergetic move for a science vessel (subsystem targeting).
The Nebula needs a minor tweak... just not sure what that is.
The Vesta tho? My ship has 38K hull and does 20K damage. And rarely blows up due to me being a Joined Trill engineer. Can't we get more shield recharge rate consoles like the Dil Mine and Rom Embassy flavor?
I'd rather take Aux power versions of the weapons in many forms like AP, Plasma, Tetryon, etc.
Buffing the Vesta, LOL, one of the best or the best Science Ships already in the game? It already makes the majority of Science Ships obsolete. Hell, it already has the design copout, i.e. hangar!
Some thoughts. I would not mind a hull bost to the Vesta. Look at the raiders getting close to the same hull with there 10% boost. The Vesta, if memory sieves be right, has 27,000 hull. The Vesta is also fleet quality. So it has it's 10% bonus. So if the Vesta was not fleet level the base hull would be near that of the boosted raiders. While this makes since, due to the fact the Vesta was supposed to be the same size as a sovereign class. Game balance also has to be involved in making decisions. The problem I have with the Vesta is when I die I have full shield strength. I only die in ISE or other stf where the DOT takes me from 50% hull to nothing because of a DOT. While I know HE will clear it is on cooldown when this happens. I think it is a shame that a single strike of a DOT can claim 3% of my hull every second. This is bad game mechanics where 45% of you hull can go away from a DOT. I would like to see the Vesta's hull be set at 30,000. This would put it close to other fleet level ships.
3 Tac consoles on the Fleet version(move 1 of the 4 engineering to Tactical)
10 Turn Rate
1.5 shield mod
Why tac of all things? The Nebula is a sci ship granted, but if it resembles the Galaxy so much, then it should be an Eng hybrid instead. Not to mention, its NPC counterpart is a Cruiser.
Also, why would people want cruiser commands on the nebula? I would rather get the second deflector. It can't have both or it would open a huge can of worms.
Why not both? We have a Science Vessel/Destroyer hybrid already. It would be neat seeing the Nebula as an actual Science Vessel/Cruiser hybrid. IMO, of course.
Buffing the Vesta, LOL, one of the best or the best Science Ships already in the game? It already makes the majority of Science Ships obsolete. Hell, it already has the design copout, i.e. hangar!
That's not a problem. There's still room for another hangar bay.
So, Pancake and Besta, +1 to hangar bays, it seems.
Let me get this straight. BUFFING the Vesta? hory jeebus. But since I just bought the sci-vesta, sure buff away.
Nebula could use some buffs, but no buffs for the intrepid admiral level? for shame!
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
If you look up the "canon" specs of the Vesta it had what amounts to two hangars: One for normal-size shuttles, like the Type 8, and a separate, dedicated pad and hangar for Runabouts.
Not that it needs it, of course, but there's some precedence for it having them.
[Hyper-Fun Speculation Time]
Quantum Shield Bubble moves into the 2-piece set bonus while the 3-piece offers reduced cooldown on all consoles/abilities as well as a buff to turn rate and... something else. ID, maybe?
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Cause that's the way Cryptic tend to improve ships: Slap a hangar bay on it and it's fine (As seen with the Dreadnought Cruiser and Tactical (Carrier) Warbird)
To the Vesta, a little HP buff wouldn't harm it. However there are many ships needing a revamp more urgent than the Vesta. (damn i already regret i said this. Leave it as it is and it's fine )
The Nebula is actually fine and balanced. Just entirely useless because power creep. It's a fairly potent tank, BTW.
As a Vesta pilot the only things I would really like to see are be:
A slight buff to hull HP, so i don't die from bleedthrough or DOT effect. The Vesta's hull is pretty low considering the size of the thing and how stateof the art it's meant to be. It doesn't need a higher shield mod as you have space to stack field gens' to boost your shields anyway. Bring the HP up to the same as other fleet sci ships (30,000?)
A wider choice of Aux based phaser weapons (beam arrays, DBB, turret). I mean the aux cannons are nice but if you use them you either go all cannons (loosing the sub-system targeting) or use some beams for sub-system targeting (spreading out your boff abilities to cover two types of weapon).
Nebula needs something that buffs it main purpose to detect stealth ships. That being the aux power status, or its special consoles not the dmg output = wep slots.
And the Vesta thing don't know I fly the sci one buffing the hull mmm dont know the hull goes quit fast when you dont have shields up so what the point?
But as a captain thats flying it I would like to have the Photonic cannon :eek:
Quantum Shield Bubble moves into the 2-piece set bonus while the 3-piece offers reduced cooldown on all consoles/abilities as well as a buff to turn rate and... something else. ID, maybe?
Al said in this weeks Priority one episode that he plans to Buff the Nebula and the Vesta!! (extra HP and "love")
MOAR power for Science ships pls!! Al please keep buffing science ships and science captains!!
P.S. - the Excelsior could use some buffing as well!!:)
P.P.S - That extra deflector slot progress would be nice as well!
lulz... this must be trolling! no one with common sense could get to the conclusiuon vesta and even more excelsior (after they ****** the gals so hard) could use ANY kind of buff ^^....
really cryptic, have a nice ride down to the oven if this is true of any kind :mad:...
p.s.: if true finally nerf gecko big times PLZZZZ...
p.p.s.: i fly vesta and excel my own, only to have said...
lulz... this must be trolling! no one with common sense could get to the conclusiuon vesta and even more excelsior (after they ****** the gals so hard) could use ANY kind of buff ^^....
really cryptic, have a nice ride down to the oven if this is true of any kind :mad:...
p.s.: if true nerf gecko big times PLZZZZ...
p.p.s.: i fly vesta and excel my own, only to have said...
Yeah - so you are saying that I am going to make up something - claim that the Lead Dev said it - and it's going to last this long on the forums without getting removed/edited?
Yeah - so you are saying that I am going to make up something - claim that the Lead Dev said it - and it's going to last this long on the forums without getting removed/edited?
OK
i really wish it would have happened and i've never spotted this thread ... hell, by now i'm way certain even ea would have handled the ip better in any way :mad:
The scary thing here being that you're probably completely right.
Because that's Cryptic's lazy way of "fixing" things - "When in doubt, slap a hangar!"
If that happens I'll probably laugh, cry and throw up. I'm sure about the order, though.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
This is what I've always wanted, and the Nebula being able to change out its mission pod is supposedly canon so Cryptic could easily justify this addition. 3 mission pods, a tactical version (the current triangular one), the circular AWACS one seen in "The Wounded", which would buff science, and a new design that would buff engineering abilities.
Yeah - so you are saying that I am going to make up something - claim that the Lead Dev said it - and it's going to last this long on the forums without getting removed/edited?
OK
You making up something? Could be, but probably not in this instance. You claiming Geko said it? Eh, if you did make it up, attributing it to Geko could be fun! But again, in this instance, I don't think that's the case.
Something lasting on the forums for this long without any research or attribution? Absolutely I can believe that happening. And that has zero to do with you or this topic or anything.
Comments
Cruiser Commands are not going to be placed on a ship that has Sub System Targeting on it. That's a hard delineation that the devs use for ship classification. Science ships get sub system targeting (and pay a price for it). Cruisers get cruiser commands. The two don't mix. It's one or the other. No science ships have cruiser commands. No cruisers have sub system targeting.
And the price of sub system targeting is a weapons slot. That's been explicitly stated by Geko in the past. Science ships don't get the 4th frontal weapon because according to Geko and layout itemization budget constraints, they pay for sub system targeting with the weapon.
So while those may seem like wonderful suggestions, they're two things I really don't see Geko doing. Ever.
There's always hope that Al changes his mind on things. The Nebula could definitely use a 4/3 slot when you compare it to the Vesta which even with just 3 - can load cannons - (aux cannons too) and has 4 tac slots!! The Vesta Seriously outclasses the Nebula with the 3 beams(or 2 beams + 1 torp) and 2 tac consoles.
wtf
Seriously. wtf
Edit: Oh and expect the Neb to get a hangar bay. That's what Cryptic calls a ship revamp these days.
Mine Trap Supporter
Do you want the real answer? Al likes 3 packs - he is on record saying this. Vesta comes in a 3 pack. Buffing the Vesta could equal a pop in sales for an "older" 3-pack with little dev time involved.
The Aquarius is NOT a 3-pack. The Aquarius is not a C-store ship. And even worse I think you need minimum a T4 shipyard to get it.
They could sell thousands of Vestas and even Nebulas by giving them a buff. They might sell a few Aquarius at most. Big return of buffing Vesta and Nebula. Almost no return buffing Aquarius.
Mine Trap Supporter
I'm one of the seemingly few people whom appear to believe that the Vesta's squishy hull is too high a price to pay for the very fluffy advantages it has. I actually consider the Fleet Intrepid superior.
Giving the Vesta "some love" by the way of upping its hull would be one way of having me get over my bias against it.
For me, what would make me like it more would probably be giving it more 'auxiliary-powered' weapon variety. The whole focus on aux cannons is one of its major turnoffs for me, and it allowing directed energy weapon diversity would be a huge very synergetic move for a science vessel (subsystem targeting).
Not convinced the Nebbie needs a buff, as it is pretty damned formidable in its current form.
The Vesta tho? My ship has 38K hull and does 20K damage. And rarely blows up due to me being a Joined Trill engineer. Can't we get more shield recharge rate consoles like the Dil Mine and Rom Embassy flavor?
I'd rather take Aux power versions of the weapons in many forms like AP, Plasma, Tetryon, etc.
Why tac of all things? The Nebula is a sci ship granted, but if it resembles the Galaxy so much, then it should be an Eng hybrid instead. Not to mention, its NPC counterpart is a Cruiser.
It has enough tac abilities.
Why not both? We have a Science Vessel/Destroyer hybrid already. It would be neat seeing the Nebula as an actual Science Vessel/Cruiser hybrid. IMO, of course.
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Aux phaser beam arrays, maybe?
Ninth Fleet - 20 years, from SFC2:EAW to STO and still going strong...
So, Pancake and Besta, +1 to hangar bays, it seems.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Nebula could use some buffs, but no buffs for the intrepid admiral level? for shame!
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
If you look up the "canon" specs of the Vesta it had what amounts to two hangars: One for normal-size shuttles, like the Type 8, and a separate, dedicated pad and hangar for Runabouts.
Not that it needs it, of course, but there's some precedence for it having them.
[Hyper-Fun Speculation Time]
Quantum Shield Bubble moves into the 2-piece set bonus while the 3-piece offers reduced cooldown on all consoles/abilities as well as a buff to turn rate and... something else. ID, maybe?
Cause that's the way Cryptic tend to improve ships: Slap a hangar bay on it and it's fine (As seen with the Dreadnought Cruiser and Tactical (Carrier) Warbird)
To the Vesta, a little HP buff wouldn't harm it. However there are many ships needing a revamp more urgent than the Vesta. (damn i already regret i said this. Leave it as it is and it's fine
The Nebula is actually fine and balanced. Just entirely useless because power creep. It's a fairly potent tank, BTW.
The scary thing here being that you're probably completely right.
Because that's Cryptic's lazy way of "fixing" things - "When in doubt, slap a hangar!"
A slight buff to hull HP, so i don't die from bleedthrough or DOT effect. The Vesta's hull is pretty low considering the size of the thing and how stateof the art it's meant to be. It doesn't need a higher shield mod as you have space to stack field gens' to boost your shields anyway. Bring the HP up to the same as other fleet sci ships (30,000?)
A wider choice of Aux based phaser weapons (beam arrays, DBB, turret). I mean the aux cannons are nice but if you use them you either go all cannons (loosing the sub-system targeting) or use some beams for sub-system targeting (spreading out your boff abilities to cover two types of weapon).
And the Vesta thing don't know I fly the sci one buffing the hull mmm dont know the hull goes quit fast when you dont have shields up so what the point?
But as a captain thats flying it I would like to have the Photonic cannon :eek:
um i like this idea very much.
lulz... this must be trolling! no one with common sense could get to the conclusiuon vesta and even more excelsior (after they ****** the gals so hard) could use ANY kind of buff ^^....
really cryptic, have a nice ride down to the oven if this is true of any kind :mad:...
p.s.: if true finally nerf gecko big times PLZZZZ...
p.p.s.: i fly vesta and excel my own, only to have said...
Yeah - so you are saying that I am going to make up something - claim that the Lead Dev said it - and it's going to last this long on the forums without getting removed/edited?
OK
If that happens I'll probably laugh, cry and throw up. I'm sure about the order, though.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Runabouts with tractor beam 1000 - for the Nebula!!
Item budget and restrictions. They're not going to give a ship both of those things.
This is what I've always wanted, and the Nebula being able to change out its mission pod is supposedly canon so Cryptic could easily justify this addition. 3 mission pods, a tactical version (the current triangular one), the circular AWACS one seen in "The Wounded", which would buff science, and a new design that would buff engineering abilities.
You making up something? Could be, but probably not in this instance. You claiming Geko said it? Eh, if you did make it up, attributing it to Geko could be fun! But again, in this instance, I don't think that's the case.
Something lasting on the forums for this long without any research or attribution? Absolutely I can believe that happening. And that has zero to do with you or this topic or anything.