I'm still not clear on the ages of ships -- the lore for STO says that they use all-new materials and technology to build every ship we have, and that shipbuilding has advanced to the point that we can shape the ships however we want (to a reasonable point). Hence, classic and legendary hull designs still being used.
So ... are the Galaxy/Venture ships in the game ancient dinosaurs? Or are they brand new ships with the newest technologies that have the appearance of ancient dinosaurs?
We don't really have any launch dates for most of the ships in the game. Just because they add a new ship or skin doesn't mean they've added a 25th century ship. The venture or regent skin could have been added in 2380 but we're just getting it into the game now; just like it took them 3 years to get the ambassador into the game, and the ambassador was 30 years older then the galaxy. The vesta is at least 30 years old in this timeline, as is the scimitar.
The real truth is that cryptic doesn't really bother thinking about the ages of the ships. They just sell them to make money and try to build them how they think they should fit into their system. Of course the system's changed over the last 4 years and it's much broader then just dps, tank, and healing now.
Whatever system cryptic's using it has nothing to do with logic, age, size, or anything else so all arguments based on those criteria are fairly pointless in the game.
The thing is - we're not even close to discussing ancient dinosaurs. The first Galaxy Class ships built in the 2360-es are at about half of their designed average service age. They were built for an average 100 years of service. Every Galaxy Class hull built after that is only younger and newer - thus can last well into the 26-th century.
There's no way any Galaxy Class ship to fall into the "ancient dinosaurs" category yet.
There's no logic to it, not even in canon. Claiming the galaxy has a 100 year service age means nothing because even in canon they added the sovereign, prometheus, akira, intrepid, and many other ships after the galaxy; and they all had improvements over the galaxy. Any notion that the galaxy was always going to be king of the hill is foolish. It might have a 100 year service span, but that doesn't mean it would going to be a top of the line ship for those entire 100 years.
As I understand things, the ship model that we refer to as the Venture is a 2409 ship that is named for the U.S.S. Venture that we see in canon.
That is where the confusion lies. The U.S.S. Venture was just a Galaxy. The new ship class was named in her honor.
Edit: I looked up and down Memory Alpha and Beta to see if I could find the Venture class in canon so I could talk myself into using the model. No luck. I can only conclude that it is a Cryptic design.
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or, you know, the venture A launched in 2409 :rolleyes:
Oh god. Not this again.
ALL ships in the game are launched in 2409. So the entire "X is too old" argument NEVER had a leg to stand on.
However moving past that, people who are claiming the Venture skin is representative of a 2409 "update" to the look of the Galaxy are not correct. The Venture skin is based on the ship from the 2370s and its appearances in DS9 and Voyager.
There's no logic to it, not even in canon. Claiming the galaxy has a 100 year service age means nothing because even in canon they added the sovereign, prometheus, akira, intrepid, and many other ships after the galaxy; and they all had improvements over the galaxy. Any notion that the galaxy was always going to be king of the hill is foolish. It might have a 100 year service span, but that doesn't mean it would going to be a top of the line ship for those entire 100 years.
Stating one ship is "better" than the other is difficult since no ship Starfleet build after the Galaxy Class was meant to perform the same duties on the same scale. Ships built after her were more advanced, but the scheduled retro- and refits would bring any Galaxy hul en par, technology wise. And all the ships you mentioned have a different mission profile - the Galaxy still remains Starfleet top-of-the-line Explorer.
However moving past that, people who are claiming the Venture skin is representative of a 2409 "update" to the look of the Galaxy are not correct. The Venture skin is based on the ship from the 2370s and its appearances in DS9 and Voyager.
Where are you getting that from? The Venture skin in STO looks NOTHING like the Galaxy Class USS Venture. It's part of STOs refit-bundle which is a representation of Starfleet's 25th century refits for known, canonical designs. They are Cryptic created and try to carry the original looks into a more modern looking "futuristic" setting.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Stating one ship is "better" than the other is difficult since no ship Starfleet build after the Galaxy Class was meant to perform the same duties on the same scale. Ships built after her were more advanced, but the scheduled retro- and refits would bring any Galaxy hul en par, technology wise. And all the ships you mentioned have a different mission profile - the Galaxy still remains Starfleet top-of-the-line Explorer.
And since it's all make believe the tooth fairy could have just made all the new ships super duper duper better.
You're trying to use logic where there is none. There's none in canon and none in the game. Every ship was as great as the writer needed it to be; like voyager's endless supply of torpedoes. The galaxy had no duties other then being the home to the tng series for 1-7 seasons; luckily they made 7.
It's not real. It's logic is not real. It's tech manuels were written by writers who knew nothing about vehicle engineering. They just wrote what sounded cool to them. Trying to apply logic to that is your fallacy.
Plus the galaxy never went on any extensive missions. The enterprise spent most of its time in known space. The voyager did more exploring in 1 year then the enterprise did in 7 years and 4 movies.
ALL ships in the game are launched in 2409. So the entire "X is too old" argument NEVER had a leg to stand on.
However moving past that, people who are claiming the Venture skin is representative of a 2409 "update" to the look of the Galaxy are not correct. The Venture skin is based on the ship from the 2370s and its appearances in DS9 and Voyager.
its like your trying to argue that the venture looked like the one in game back during the dominion war, are you blind? the venture and all the other lower tier refits all have a 2409 design language, all come stranded with the same white material. they are all brind new for 2409, and are named after famous examples of their class.
its like your trying to argue that the venture looked like the one in game back during the dominion war, are you blind? the venture and all the other lower tier refits all have a 2409 design language, all come stranded with the same white material. they are all brind new for 2409, and are named after famous examples of their class.
There's nothing in the game that says they're all brand new. The only thing we know for certain about the venture is that it might be named after the venture ship. The venture class could have been built in 2381, 2392, 2401, or 2409. When it was added to the game has no direct correllation with it being a 2409 ship. There's nothing in its description stating it was built in 2409. That's just the conclusion you want to make.
i dont really care when the subclass launched, its redundant anyway. nothing about its design makes it look necessarily better. they even decontented the huge saucer shuttle bay, proboly why the saucer looks sunken in.
a galaxy built during the dominion war would be just about due for its second every 20 year major refit anyway, to equip them with top of the line 25th century tech they were lacking. until the odyssey launched its still the largest and arguably still the most powerful class of ship in the federation.
until the odyssey launched its still the largest and arguably still the most powerful class of ship in the federation.
Sovereign class?!
Let's be honest, if TNG is any measure, the Galaxy class fighting power is somewhere on the same level of an F-16. Basically everyone and everything was more powerful.
Let's be honest, if TNG is any measure, the Galaxy class fighting power is somewhere on the same level of an F-16. Basically everyone and everything was more powerful.
It's still the only ship design to have single-handedly punched holes through a Borg cube.
There's no logic to it, not even in canon. Claiming the galaxy has a 100 year service age means nothing because even in canon they added the sovereign, prometheus, akira, intrepid, and many other ships after the galaxy; and they all had improvements over the galaxy. Any notion that the galaxy was always going to be king of the hill is foolish. It might have a 100 year service span, but that doesn't mean it would going to be a top of the line ship for those entire 100 years.
And since it's all make believe the tooth fairy could have just made all the new ships super duper duper better.
You're trying to use logic where there is none. There's none in canon and none in the game. Every ship was as great as the writer needed it to be; like voyager's endless supply of torpedoes. The galaxy had no duties other then being the home to the tng series for 1-7 seasons; luckily they made 7.
It's not real. It's logic is not real. It's tech manuels were written by writers who knew nothing about vehicle engineering. They just wrote what sounded cool to them. Trying to apply logic to that is your fallacy.
Plus the galaxy never went on any extensive missions. The enterprise spent most of its time in known space. The voyager did more exploring in 1 year then the enterprise did in 7 years and 4 movies.
I hope you realize just how much you contradicted yourself with these 2 replies.
Let's be honest, if TNG is any measure, the Galaxy class fighting power is somewhere on the same level of an F-16. Basically everyone and everything was more powerful.
oh how cute, this again. phaser arrays are fleshed out enough by the tech manual and what you see in canon, most notably that moving charge effect, to definitively say the galaxy class and its 2 main arrays are totally without peer in the fleet for per shot firepower. and its not like they have ever shown to have a poor fireing rate. the sovereign's best is only half as long as the shorter of the 2 the galaxy has. in 3 shots against the first borg cube they encountered, they vaporized more volume of the cube then there was volume of the enterprise.
each torpedo tube the galaxy has can burst a huge number of torps, fireing 10 or more in the space of a second. torpedo launchers on ships like the akira, sovereign and intrepid, wile more numerous, cant do any better then a burst of 3 or 4 per tube. the galaxy is also twice the size of a sovereign, they arent even in the same weight class. just the saucer alone has about the same volume as an entire sovereign and akira combined.
the sovereign is not the next premier battleship, or galaxy replacement, its not even 10 years newer. its just a very advanced, large and powerful heavy cruiser. something like the galaxy wouldn't need a successor for at least 40 years, and thats what happened with the odyssey.
I hope you realize just how much you contradicted yourself with these 2 replies.
They don't contradict at all because canon is what it is. What does Geordi say about the sovereign in first contact? That it's the most advanced starship in the fleet. It appears after the defiant and the voyager. That's not to say that they can't make a more powerful galaxy upgrade, but it's not canon that they did; at least not to the point where they introduced the sovereign.
And there's nothing in canon discussing exactly what the galaxy class is supposed to be. Every example of one that we have seen does not have it out exploring, so we certainly can't make up our own facts about what its purpose was. This notion that it's supposed to be this great exploration ship doesn't hold water when you take into account that they're not out exploring in it. Picard and crew spent almost all of their time in known space. They never flew off into uncharted space for years to discover new worlds and civiliations. They were dealing with klingons, romulans, cardassians, and so on.
They don't contradict at all because canon is what it is. What does Geordi say about the sovereign in first contact? That it's the most advanced starship in the fleet. It appears after the defiant and the voyager. That's not to say that they can't make a more powerful galaxy upgrade, but it's not canon that they did; at least not to the point where they introduced the sovereign.
And there's nothing in canon discussing exactly what the galaxy class is supposed to be. Every example of one that we have seen does not have it out exploring, so we certainly can't make up our own facts about what its purpose was. This notion that it's supposed to be this great exploration ship doesn't hold water when you take into account that they're not out exploring in it. Picard and crew spent almost all of their time in known space. They never flew off into uncharted space for years to discover new worlds and civiliations. They were dealing with klingons, romulans, cardassians, and so on.
it should be no surprise that the newest class is the most advanced, every time. geordi failed to actually say most powerful though, just a bit of a technicality there. if he had said it was the most powerful then there would be no debate on the subject. but he didnt, and all the hard cannon evidence simply points in the galaxies favor, so thats the way it is. everything that made the sovereign most advanced automatically ended up in starfleets parts bin, its only a mater of time before all the classes benefit from it due to refits.
you see 1 galaxy in tng really, the flagship. we dont really know for sure what others were off doing. and yes, mostly the D was just out there posturing on the boarder of a hostile empire instead of going out in deep space, but the class was brand new, tng was most likely a shakedown cruise for the enterprise and other galaxyies. they no doubt wanted years of performance data to prove the class before they send 1000 people off to die thanks to some glitch they hadn't caught, out of range of any support. especially after the yamato up and exploded for what seemed like no good reason at first
Let's be honest, if TNG is any measure, the Galaxy class fighting power is somewhere on the same level of an F-16. Basically everyone and everything was more powerful.
the sov is smaller with it's main guns smaller to fit on the hull
in fact unlike the galaxy the sov's saucer arrays are blocked by the ship them selves so they can never fire together unlike the galaxy where most of it's arrays can all fire forward. the sov can not even manage to fire half of them in any given arc and can never manage to fire both main saucer arrays at the same time
the D was shown to fire both saucer arrays, both pylon arrays, and the ventral star drive array at the same time
the sov can only fire the main saucer array, the 2 much smaller saucer arrays, and the 2 pylon arrays at the same time or the ventral saucer array, ventral engineering hull array, and both pylon arrays. this is due to how the ship is designed with blind spots every ware and the arrays being sunken in to the hull they can not fire dead forward
The Sovereign-class was introduced during the early 2370s, and was, at the time, the most advanced starship design in the fleet, though not as large as the Galaxy class starship. The Sovereign-class USS Enterprise-E was built at the San Francisco Fleet Yards and was launched from that facility on stardate 49827.5. (Star Trek: First Contact dedication plaque)
USS Enterprise-E engages Borg at 001
The USS Enterprise-E firing at the Borg cube at the Battle of Sector 001
The Sovereign class' first major engagements came in 2373, when the USS Enterprise saw action in the Borg incursion into Sector 001, and was instrumental in the destruction of the attacking cube. (Star Trek: First Contact)
While the Sovereign-class was not a key player in the Dominion War, such vessels as the Enterprise-E spent time during the war putting out diplomatic "brush fires" and extending the occasional olive branch, as the Federation Diplomatic Corps were busy attempting to put an end to the war. (Star Trek: Insurrection)
Sometime after the Enterprise's mission in the Briar Patch and before the engagement with the Reman warship Scimitar, a refitting of the Enterprise-E took place. The major changes included 5 additional torpedo tubes and 4 additional phaser arrays. A slight change in the warp nacelle pylons was also implemented. The Enterprise was able to deploy these new systems in 2379, prior to its mission to Romulus. (Star Trek Nemesis)
More advanced, but not as large.
I didn't compare number of weapons, but weapons in STO are not able to relate to canon in any way, its best not to try.
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oh how cute, this again. phaser arrays are fleshed out enough by the tech manual and what you see in canon, most notably that moving charge effect, to definitively say the galaxy class and its 2 main arrays are totally without peer in the fleet for per shot firepower. and its not like they have ever shown to have a poor fireing rate. the sovereign's best is only half as long as the shorter of the 2 the galaxy has. in 3 shots against the first borg cube they encountered, they vaporized more volume of the cube then there was volume of the enterprise.
each torpedo tube the galaxy has can burst a huge number of torps, fireing 10 or more in the space of a second. torpedo launchers on ships like the akira, sovereign and intrepid, wile more numerous, cant do any better then a burst of 3 or 4 per tube. the galaxy is also twice the size of a sovereign, they arent even in the same weight class. just the saucer alone has about the same volume as an entire sovereign and akira combined.
the sovereign is not the next premier battleship, or galaxy replacement, its not even 10 years newer. its just a very advanced, large and powerful heavy cruiser. something like the galaxy wouldn't need a successor for at least 40 years, and thats what happened with the odyssey.
Yeah, the problem is, that the Tech Manual (I even have that laying around somewhere in my old room at my parents house ) was written before the Sovereign was even conceived.
And ST also shows, that size and firepower don't go hand in hand in the ST Universe. The Sovereign class was built much more for combat, than the Galaxy class. And lets not even mention the Defiant or Prometheus.
I would also highly dispute that what we see in the show is in any way accurate or can be taken as a reliable measure for fire power. Back then the large damage against the cube was meant to show "Hey, you can really damage the Borg, but they don't care. They repair the damage in a matter of minutes and then they come after you again."
I mean, in other scenes, the Enterprise shoots phaser out of their torp launcher...so...yeah.
In the end, the Galaxy class in the TV shows and the movie was only ever as powerful as the writer wanted her to be and she was destroyed by an old B'rel BoP, let's not forget that.
it should be no surprise that the newest class is the most advanced, every time. geordi failed to actually say most powerful though, just a bit of a technicality there. if he had said it was the most powerful then there would be no debate on the subject. but he didnt, and all the hard cannon evidence simply points in the galaxies favor, so thats the way it is. everything that made the sovereign most advanced automatically ended up in starfleets parts bin, its only a mater of time before all the classes benefit from it due to refits.
You mean the fact that the sovereign has the same number of phasers and 3 times as many torpedo launchers, including a quantum torpedo launcher, and more advanced shields, engines, and targeting system but the galaxy is still better? You must be fanboy drunk.
The only thing the galaxy has is more mass, and the defiant clearly shows that size doesn't matter. Plus most of that extra mass was just a larger saucer designed to house civilians rather then being stuffed full of important stuff.
The only thing the galaxy has is more mass, and the defiant clearly shows that size doesn't matter. Plus most of that extra mass was just a larger saucer designed to house civilians rather then being stuffed full of important stuff.
Yeah, the problem is, that the Tech Manual (I even have that laying around somewhere in my old room at my parents house ) was written before the Sovereign was even conceived.
And ST also shows, that size and firepower don't go hand in hand in the ST Universe. The Sovereign class was built much more for combat, than the Galaxy class. And let's not even mention the Defiant or Prometheus.
I would also highly dispute that what we see in the show is in any way accurate or can be taken as a reliable measure for fire power. Back then the large damage against the cube was meant to show "Hey, you can really damage the Borg, but they don't care. They repair the damage in a matter of minutes and then they come after you again."
I mean, in other scenes, the Enterprise shoots phaser out of their torp launcher...so...yeah.
In the end, the Galaxy class in the TV shows and the movie was only ever as powerful as the writer wanted her to be and she was destroyed by an old B'rel BoP, let's not forget that.
Yeah, people tend to forget that the tech in ST is an afterthought, used to fill in the plot where necessary. Trek is a character drama, not hard Sci Fi.
We are the ones who take it as seriously as we do. Some of us to unhealthy levels, others not so.
If we were to try and hold the game to the lore too strictly, I should be able to one shot scimitars by shoving my android boff in the torpedo tubes :P
I love to lore grind with the rest of you, but if we are being honest, the writers treat the lore as a tool to be re-sharpened and re-shaped as the current project requires. I try to chase canon where I can. You can't win. It is not coherent. You will eventually lose.
All that said... Cryptic sometimes seems like they throw in the towel *WAY* too soon. I try not to judge to harsh.
Galaxy revamp was meh tho. Gal-X rocks my socks, but the Gal-R... Now eclipsed by her own subclass (I defended her before, now I completely agree, no reason to fly her over the Gal-X unless you have a pathological aversion to third nacelles.)
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Oh God I thought we put this Phaser array length debate to rest 50 pages ago using canon evidence that longer array means nothing but simply a larger firing arc.
Apparently you didn't really take home the message from that discussion. There are benefits from a larger number of emitters in a single array. I posted about it a while back (I don't expect you to go hunting for it though, that'd be nearly impossible!). Basically, something to do with power output and keeping a steady beam locked on an enemy are the advantages of a longer array.
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the prop shown in first contact is the same warp core prop from TNG just with the added "coolant" tubes on the side and red lights at the top. it was also set in a more open area on the set instead of encased
gonna need to see the context of what was going on in whatever episode this was. if it somehow proves that number of emitters chained together dont mater, well, all those times there was a moving glow effect before beam firireing DOES. and theres the handy explanation for why that works in the tech manual. sounds like one of those fire phaser out of the torpedoe launcher moments.
how is it possible to think the tech manual coming out before the sovereign is some kind of counter argument? seriously, thats some terrible logic. you think a mature technology like the phaser array is suddenly going to completely change the most basic and fundamental way it operates overnight? wile not looking or being placed on ships any differently?
And apparently you missed when Geordi increased the Enterprise's phaser output by isolating emitters on the phaser array and sending more power to the EPS conduits behind those emitters. But I wouldn't expect you to remember the episode either. Phasers are powered by the EPS conduits, which are powered by either the warp core or fusion reactors. Length has nothing to do with output! Length gives a greater firing arc for a large/slow ship at impulse speeds. Such coverage is not necessary on the Sovereign or Intrepid bc their primary hull is shaped differently and they are more maneuverable.
I don't remember that episode specifically. My guess would be, based on the context you provided, Geordi was suggesting an emergency procedure which would burn out the emitters. I doubt that's standard operating procedure.
Yes, I am aware of how the phaser array works. I have discussed it before.
Length has everything to do with firing arc though, and according to the Tech Manual from memory, firing arc is more important over time. The Tech Manual states explicitly that maintaining a steady contact with the beam is far more effective at dealing damage. In order to do this, an array with a larger firing arc AND more emitters to keep the beam going are key. The Intrepid has nowhere near the same capability, and the Sovereign attempts to have a similar firing arc with the dorsal array only. Unfortunately, both starships' rear quadrants (or rear halves, in the case of the Sovereign) are only protected by a smattering of tiny arrays that aren't good for much other than one-second shots in a tiny arc.
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The real truth is that cryptic doesn't really bother thinking about the ages of the ships. They just sell them to make money and try to build them how they think they should fit into their system. Of course the system's changed over the last 4 years and it's much broader then just dps, tank, and healing now.
Whatever system cryptic's using it has nothing to do with logic, age, size, or anything else so all arguments based on those criteria are fairly pointless in the game.
That is where the confusion lies. The U.S.S. Venture was just a Galaxy. The new ship class was named in her honor.
Edit: I looked up and down Memory Alpha and Beta to see if I could find the Venture class in canon so I could talk myself into using the model. No luck. I can only conclude that it is a Cryptic design.
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Oh god. Not this again.
ALL ships in the game are launched in 2409. So the entire "X is too old" argument NEVER had a leg to stand on.
However moving past that, people who are claiming the Venture skin is representative of a 2409 "update" to the look of the Galaxy are not correct. The Venture skin is based on the ship from the 2370s and its appearances in DS9 and Voyager.
Stating one ship is "better" than the other is difficult since no ship Starfleet build after the Galaxy Class was meant to perform the same duties on the same scale. Ships built after her were more advanced, but the scheduled retro- and refits would bring any Galaxy hul en par, technology wise. And all the ships you mentioned have a different mission profile - the Galaxy still remains Starfleet top-of-the-line Explorer.
Where are you getting that from? The Venture skin in STO looks NOTHING like the Galaxy Class USS Venture. It's part of STOs refit-bundle which is a representation of Starfleet's 25th century refits for known, canonical designs. They are Cryptic created and try to carry the original looks into a more modern looking "futuristic" setting.
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You're trying to use logic where there is none. There's none in canon and none in the game. Every ship was as great as the writer needed it to be; like voyager's endless supply of torpedoes. The galaxy had no duties other then being the home to the tng series for 1-7 seasons; luckily they made 7.
It's not real. It's logic is not real. It's tech manuels were written by writers who knew nothing about vehicle engineering. They just wrote what sounded cool to them. Trying to apply logic to that is your fallacy.
Plus the galaxy never went on any extensive missions. The enterprise spent most of its time in known space. The voyager did more exploring in 1 year then the enterprise did in 7 years and 4 movies.
its like your trying to argue that the venture looked like the one in game back during the dominion war, are you blind? the venture and all the other lower tier refits all have a 2409 design language, all come stranded with the same white material. they are all brind new for 2409, and are named after famous examples of their class.
a galaxy built during the dominion war would be just about due for its second every 20 year major refit anyway, to equip them with top of the line 25th century tech they were lacking. until the odyssey launched its still the largest and arguably still the most powerful class of ship in the federation.
nope the venture-class is a 2409 federation cruiser named after the uss venture a galaxy class ship that served during the dominion war
Sovereign class?!
Let's be honest, if TNG is any measure, the Galaxy class fighting power is somewhere on the same level of an F-16. Basically everyone and everything was more powerful.
It's still the only ship design to have single-handedly punched holes through a Borg cube.
Only because a F-16 never tried it.
I hope you realize just how much you contradicted yourself with these 2 replies.
oh how cute, this again. phaser arrays are fleshed out enough by the tech manual and what you see in canon, most notably that moving charge effect, to definitively say the galaxy class and its 2 main arrays are totally without peer in the fleet for per shot firepower. and its not like they have ever shown to have a poor fireing rate. the sovereign's best is only half as long as the shorter of the 2 the galaxy has. in 3 shots against the first borg cube they encountered, they vaporized more volume of the cube then there was volume of the enterprise.
each torpedo tube the galaxy has can burst a huge number of torps, fireing 10 or more in the space of a second. torpedo launchers on ships like the akira, sovereign and intrepid, wile more numerous, cant do any better then a burst of 3 or 4 per tube. the galaxy is also twice the size of a sovereign, they arent even in the same weight class. just the saucer alone has about the same volume as an entire sovereign and akira combined.
the sovereign is not the next premier battleship, or galaxy replacement, its not even 10 years newer. its just a very advanced, large and powerful heavy cruiser. something like the galaxy wouldn't need a successor for at least 40 years, and thats what happened with the odyssey.
And there's nothing in canon discussing exactly what the galaxy class is supposed to be. Every example of one that we have seen does not have it out exploring, so we certainly can't make up our own facts about what its purpose was. This notion that it's supposed to be this great exploration ship doesn't hold water when you take into account that they're not out exploring in it. Picard and crew spent almost all of their time in known space. They never flew off into uncharted space for years to discover new worlds and civiliations. They were dealing with klingons, romulans, cardassians, and so on.
it should be no surprise that the newest class is the most advanced, every time. geordi failed to actually say most powerful though, just a bit of a technicality there. if he had said it was the most powerful then there would be no debate on the subject. but he didnt, and all the hard cannon evidence simply points in the galaxies favor, so thats the way it is. everything that made the sovereign most advanced automatically ended up in starfleets parts bin, its only a mater of time before all the classes benefit from it due to refits.
you see 1 galaxy in tng really, the flagship. we dont really know for sure what others were off doing. and yes, mostly the D was just out there posturing on the boarder of a hostile empire instead of going out in deep space, but the class was brand new, tng was most likely a shakedown cruise for the enterprise and other galaxyies. they no doubt wanted years of performance data to prove the class before they send 1000 people off to die thanks to some glitch they hadn't caught, out of range of any support. especially after the yamato up and exploded for what seemed like no good reason at first
the sov is smaller with it's main guns smaller to fit on the hull
in fact unlike the galaxy the sov's saucer arrays are blocked by the ship them selves so they can never fire together unlike the galaxy where most of it's arrays can all fire forward. the sov can not even manage to fire half of them in any given arc and can never manage to fire both main saucer arrays at the same time
the D was shown to fire both saucer arrays, both pylon arrays, and the ventral star drive array at the same time
the sov can only fire the main saucer array, the 2 much smaller saucer arrays, and the 2 pylon arrays at the same time or the ventral saucer array, ventral engineering hull array, and both pylon arrays. this is due to how the ship is designed with blind spots every ware and the arrays being sunken in to the hull they can not fire dead forward
More advanced, but not as large.
I didn't compare number of weapons, but weapons in STO are not able to relate to canon in any way, its best not to try.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Yeah, the problem is, that the Tech Manual (I even have that laying around somewhere in my old room at my parents house
And ST also shows, that size and firepower don't go hand in hand in the ST Universe. The Sovereign class was built much more for combat, than the Galaxy class. And lets not even mention the Defiant or Prometheus.
I would also highly dispute that what we see in the show is in any way accurate or can be taken as a reliable measure for fire power. Back then the large damage against the cube was meant to show "Hey, you can really damage the Borg, but they don't care. They repair the damage in a matter of minutes and then they come after you again."
I mean, in other scenes, the Enterprise shoots phaser out of their torp launcher...so...yeah.
In the end, the Galaxy class in the TV shows and the movie was only ever as powerful as the writer wanted her to be and she was destroyed by an old B'rel BoP, let's not forget that.
The only thing the galaxy has is more mass, and the defiant clearly shows that size doesn't matter. Plus most of that extra mass was just a larger saucer designed to house civilians rather then being stuffed full of important stuff.
LMAO!!!
Yeah, people tend to forget that the tech in ST is an afterthought, used to fill in the plot where necessary. Trek is a character drama, not hard Sci Fi.
We are the ones who take it as seriously as we do. Some of us to unhealthy levels, others not so.
If we were to try and hold the game to the lore too strictly, I should be able to one shot scimitars by shoving my android boff in the torpedo tubes :P
I love to lore grind with the rest of you, but if we are being honest, the writers treat the lore as a tool to be re-sharpened and re-shaped as the current project requires. I try to chase canon where I can. You can't win. It is not coherent. You will eventually lose.
All that said... Cryptic sometimes seems like they throw in the towel *WAY* too soon. I try not to judge to harsh.
Galaxy revamp was meh tho. Gal-X rocks my socks, but the Gal-R... Now eclipsed by her own subclass (I defended her before, now I completely agree, no reason to fly her over the Gal-X unless you have a pathological aversion to third nacelles.)
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Apparently you didn't really take home the message from that discussion. There are benefits from a larger number of emitters in a single array. I posted about it a while back (I don't expect you to go hunting for it though, that'd be nearly impossible!). Basically, something to do with power output and keeping a steady beam locked on an enemy are the advantages of a longer array.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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http://trekazoid.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/saturnmsdsml.png
http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/images/sov/schematic1.jpg
the prop shown in first contact is the same warp core prop from TNG just with the added "coolant" tubes on the side and red lights at the top. it was also set in a more open area on the set instead of encased
how is it possible to think the tech manual coming out before the sovereign is some kind of counter argument? seriously, thats some terrible logic. you think a mature technology like the phaser array is suddenly going to completely change the most basic and fundamental way it operates overnight? wile not looking or being placed on ships any differently?
I don't remember that episode specifically. My guess would be, based on the context you provided, Geordi was suggesting an emergency procedure which would burn out the emitters. I doubt that's standard operating procedure.
Yes, I am aware of how the phaser array works. I have discussed it before.
Length has everything to do with firing arc though, and according to the Tech Manual from memory, firing arc is more important over time. The Tech Manual states explicitly that maintaining a steady contact with the beam is far more effective at dealing damage. In order to do this, an array with a larger firing arc AND more emitters to keep the beam going are key. The Intrepid has nowhere near the same capability, and the Sovereign attempts to have a similar firing arc with the dorsal array only. Unfortunately, both starships' rear quadrants (or rear halves, in the case of the Sovereign) are only protected by a smattering of tiny arrays that aren't good for much other than one-second shots in a tiny arc.
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