I'ma gonna be the bearer of bad news here sport - this has nothing to do with PVE, there is no "playing field" to balance there.
Go re read the blog post.
Cryptic makes very few changes with the thought of PvP in mind. In 4 years the amount of changes made for the good of PvP can be listed in about 3 lines. Nice try.
This is about being able to balance end game content... Which they can't do when they have 50s... and 50+ and 50+++ all trying to do the same content.
It is why they failed hard with Hive... and why they have changed every new mission for over a year now to a style that involves a strict time cloak.
Do you wonder why we don't get new STF style missions where you get to go in and blow everything up and complete it in as fast a time as you can ?
The answer is simple you are earning reward faster then they like... which is why new missions have 60s briefings and ALL end after exactly 10min passes. The fact that you CAN'T fail them and you CAN'T finish them faster is what makes them all so darn boring. Jump in game right now and tell me how many people are qued up for Infected... and compare that to ANY other mission... Romulan Dyson even fleet missions. I'll bet you right now as you read this what ever time it is here is 80-150 in the Infected que... and 3 or 4 in the Vault.
In order to be able to properly set difficulty levels... and have a game where people are not earning rewards faster then the Cryptic money men like... they need to ensure the GAP between 50 and 50 with + + + + Reps isn't 60s Infected runs vs 15min. Which lets all get real is pretty close to where its at.
This is 100% a PvE change... They have stated it and reaffirmed it and if you read the Blog post and the goals they are trying to achieve that is obviously the truth. Any positive effect on PvP is trickle down happiness.
That is just it though they are not just shineys they are one of the main sources of power creep in the game.
Having the equivalent of 8 tac consoles on a 5 console ship... along with 2 free mods on your guns... is very powerful. (which you can still have btw)... the only thing you can't do going forward is combo that up with say double shield regen + free armor that is = to a couple extra Neutronium armors.
That is the issue right now ... we have passives that basicly equal 2-3 consoles both defensive and offensive. The new system will allow you to keep the boost to your offense or your defense... but not a the same time which is good.
If they really just shinys to you... you can still earn them man... Collect them All. I am not sure where you are prevented from doing that in this system.
The fact of the matter of collecting them is part of the fun, being able to use all of what I collect is the other 50%.
This now will knock almost 50% of the fun in having them, and I never really rely on them for balance.
I don't get 20k+ dps from rep traits alone, I most certainly get it from gear, skills, ships, boffs, doffs, lobi toys, lockbox toys, and captain traits.
Even with these so called uber rep traits, people pop in seconds and will continue to do so even with the change, so how much balance do you really think this change will bring?
I don't get 20k+ dps from rep traits alone, I most certainly get it from gear, skills, ships, boffs, doffs, lobi toys, lockbox toys, and captain traits.
You are quite correct this isn't the only source of detrimental game creep in the game.
So I guess now its time for us to see if Cryptic are Men of there word.
There stated design goal is to reduce power creep so they can release end game content that is fun and challenging for all. (its unwritten but I think we can assume that means missions that last 7-12 min every run no matter who is playing).
We will see... as I see it I agree there are many more sources of creep.
Rep wasn't the least of them... of course your right its not the only source.
If they really want to reach there goal... we can expect more changes.
As I have been saying for the last few days... get ready folks they seem serious this time... so you can be sure there are going to be more blog posts that are going to tick some of you off.
But like I said, you don't lose those abilities. You still have the choice since you unlocked all the traits. It's just that power creep is a one-way road. While progressing in the reputation system you unlock passive boni for really no reason. Everyone at endgame unlocks all the passives because there is nothing else left to do, leveling the field of end-game players again. Newcomers, however, lack all those passives and are "weaker" just because. Now, if you do all the reps you are still better off since you get more passives to choose from, but you aren't towering above new players anymore - this is just necessary. Cryptic just can't slap more and more passives and boni on veteran players - at some point we need to understand that the "creep" has to stop. The game can't evolve that way. The field has to be leveled and the actual content has to become more important than number pushing.
Do you listen to yourself? Because it's kind of silly, what you're saying.
"You don't lose those abilities."
While technically true, you lose the USE of them. So when it comes right down to it, you lose them.
The reason people are annoyed by this idiotic idea (yet another in a long line of idiotic ideas by Cryptic - starting with "We should pick up the Trek IP because we can make a huge buck off of it by doing shoddy, horrible programming) is that they've worked VERY hard to earn the reps and their respective abilities.
Now, I've been in this game for four years. None of my characters have maxxed rep, because frankly I don't care about rep. I don't like grinding in an Eastern-style MMO. So I'm not very bothered and I managed to get through the game just fine while kicking some serious... well, the forum won't let me say it, so let's just say that I prod some serious buttock.
"Veterans" become veterans for a reason - they've spent the time and effort to hone their skills and learn new abilities. That's what "veteran" means.
New players SHOULDN'T be on the same playing field as veterans - not out of the gate. They should need to earn their abilities to become veterans themselves, just like in the real world. I'm not sure why this concept is alien to you, or if it even is alien to you; but it sure sounds like it.
There really is no need for this nerf - except that I guarantee you that somehow, some way, not long after this travesty against STO veterans, they'll introduce something in the C-Store that lets you use all of your abilities the way you used to - they way you originally EARNED them.
Anyone who actually believes they won't find a way to monetize this is a naive fool.
And finally, want to stop the power creep in its tracks? Stop the rep nonsense entirely. It's nothing but grind, adds nothing to the game but grind, and is actually pushing players out because they want more than grind.
If they added any actual CONTENT with some decent STORY and basic INTELLIGENCE to the game, then that would be an improvement. (Caps for the benefit of any Dev with a shred of self respect as a developer who might read and comprehend these subtleties.)
You are quite correct this isn't the only source of detrimental game creep in the game.
So I guess now its time for us to see if Cryptic are Men of there word.
There stated design goal is to reduce power creep so they can release end game content that is fun and challenging for all. (its unwritten but I think we can assume that means missions that last 7-12 min every run no matter who is playing).
We will see... as I see it I agree there are many more sources of creep.
Rep wasn't the least of them... of course your right its not the only source.
If they really want to reach there goal... we can expect more changes.
As I have been saying for the last few days... get ready folks they seem serious this time... so you can be sure there are going to be more blog posts that are going to tick some of you off.
Well their umpteenth fix to the borg 3pc proc is a start, but they killed that with the solanae heal proc timer removal.
Guess now both will be closer on par, but like many have stated the have all shield array is a fleet one.
If such a piece of gear is the have all go to piece of gear, than some change needs take place there as well, not that I don't approve that fleet gear shouldn't be superior gear, but with how easy it can be obtained makes it in need of some possible nerfing to closer match rep gears energy weapons reduction levels 10-20%.
Than they thru in the whopping 30% fleet consoles to I guess, to stifle off the exchange inflation of VR mkxi and mkxii consoles, of course making them a possible loot drop would have helped with the mkxii's.
All I know is they need go farther than this kick in the nads to so called bring balance to the game, otherwise it will still stay way out of control as newer money grabs from new ship releases, rep gear added, more fleet gear, more OP doffs, lockbox toys, lobi toys, etc...
But but you loose the use of them. You guys sound exactly the way all my kids sounded around 4.
If any of you have ever played another MMO game you should have seen this was coming. I think most game vets knew when this launched it needed to have a limit on the number slotted. Perhaps not when the first rep came but for sure the second. It was clear then they where just going to keep doing more reps.
What do you folks think will happen when there are 10 reps.... and don't shoot it down with the come on there are 4 argument. In a few weeks there will be 5... by the end of the year I will bet any of you 100mil ec there will be 7. So unless you are expecting the servers to be closed January 1 2015... at some point in the not that distant future there really will be 10.
Of course there has to be a limit on the number people have active... they should have added it day one no doubt... glad they are doing it now though myself.
Having said that feel free to argue for More slots ect if you think it makes more sense... however to argue that the entire idea is bad is just so silly I almost can't fathom that people can think they are right on that.
At the very least log your toons into tribble this weekend and group up with each other go run some content... realize that this change makes almost no difference. It is future proofing future added content that is the main win here. Once you have all seen how minor of a change this is to your current setups I think you can all calm down and stop yelling about your wallets and such. lol
The reason people are annoyed by this idiotic idea (yet another in a long line of idiotic ideas by Cryptic - starting with "We should pick up the Trek IP because we can make a huge buck off of it by doing shoddy, horrible programming) is that they've worked VERY hard to earn the reps and their respective abilities.
And ... ? You've still got what you've earned, in fact you've now suddenly got better than you've earned.
You just can't use as many at the same time as before.
And that's pretty obviously necessary if they're going to introduce more reps with more shinies to collect.
No toys have been taken away, in fact the toys have been improved. You just can't play with as many of the toys all at once as before. You now have to make an extra decision that wasn't there before.
That's a nerf of sorts, sure, but it's also a plus (more choices, more thought, is good) it's a good nerf that equalizes high-end players a bit better.
The fact of the matter of collecting them is part of the fun, being able to use all of what I collect is the other 50%.
But you still collect these powers. You collect actually more, because now you don't have to choose between which powers you learn - you unlock both for each rank in a reputation, and can at any point choose which ones to use - without having to pay anything.
If it's just collecting, you now have more. If it's about power - well, each power you slotted is now better than before, but you can't slot them all anymore. Give some, take away some.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
But but you loose the use of them. You guys sound exactly the way all my kids sounded around 4.
If any of you have ever played another MMO game you should have seen this was coming. I think most game vets knew when this launched it needed to have a limit on the number slotted. Perhaps not when the first rep came but for sure the second. It was clear then they where just going to keep doing more reps.
What do you folks think will happen when there are 10 reps.... and don't shoot it down with the come on there are 4 argument. In a few weeks there will be 5... by the end of the year I will bet any of you 100mil ec there will be 7. So unless you are expecting the servers to be closed January 1 2015... at some point in the not that distant future there really will be 10.
Of course there has to be a limit on the number people have active... they should have added it day one no doubt... glad they are doing it now though myself.
Having said that feel free to argue for More slots ect if you think it makes more sense... however to argue that the entire idea is bad is just so silly I almost can't fathom that people can think they are right on that.
At the very least log your toons into tribble this weekend and group up with each other go run some content... realize that this change makes almost no difference. It is future proofing future added content that is the main win here. Once you have all seen how minor of a change this is to your current setups I think you can all calm down and stop yelling about your wallets and such. lol
But people's wallets is what buys them a nifty JHAS, you know one of the most desired ships that hasn't and most likely never just like 99% of any ship ever help in the balancing battle.
While this is being sarcastic for say, it shows they prefer money over complete balance.
Well their umpteenth fix to the borg 3pc proc is a start, but they killed that with the solanae heal proc timer removal.
Guess now both will be closer on par, but like many have stated the have all shield array is a fleet one.
If such a piece of gear is the have all go to piece of gear, than some change needs take place there as well, not that I don't approve that fleet gear shouldn't be superior gear, but with how easy it can be obtained makes it in need of some possible nerfing to closer match rep gears energy weapons reduction levels 10-20%.
Than they thru in the whopping 30% fleet consoles to I guess, to stifle off the exchange inflation of VR mkxi and mkxii consoles, of course making them a possible loot drop would have helped with the mkxii's.
All I know is they need go farther than this kick in the nads to so called bring balance to the game, otherwise it will still stay way out of control as newer money grabs from new ship releases, rep gear added, more fleet gear, more OP doffs, lockbox toys, lobi toys, etc...
I agree with you completely. I am also not sure if the newest borg set change is really going to fix the issues with it. http://hilbertguide.com/leaderboard/datamining.php check out Mancoms data mine from the leader board data. (I know this is pvp data... still the set usage is almost the same in PvE) Click on his Hull healing chart. Its funny to see the borg set accounting for half the games hull healing. This is after the first nerf as well... the old data sets had it closer to 3/4 of the games healing. Its a bad joke.
I have heard there plan is to buff some of the other sets like the Reman... I don't know we'll see I really can't see anything displacing the borg anytime soon for most people even if they halve the healing from that 2 pc its still the clear choice.
We both agree a lot of stuff needs to change... this is why I am not going to fight them on this one. (not that I don't agree 100% anyway). Just one of the reasons I am supporting them hard, is I want them to KNOW there are plenty of people in this game that do want to see it turn into a more enjoyable experience. The only way to get there is more balance... which YES does effect PvE I'm not just talking PvP here folks. The game needs to be balanced out more so they can give us hard mode PvE that doesn't cause them so many wine threads they deleted it or water it down a week later.
This is the list of stuff I would do if I was them and i wouldn't wait I would make all of this a priority...
1) Yes go forward with this change.
2) Change Energy weapon skills... Allow Rapid fire to work with beams or cannons. Allow overload to work with cannons or beams. Rename Scatter Volley Fire at Will allow it to work with both and delete the current bugged for 4 years FAW.
3) Change the Global of Aux to Bat back to the EPTx Global that it was on when the Tech doffs where released. (instantly fixing that issue) Also tweek a few doffs directly doffs like the warp core cleanse doff needs a chance reduction.
4) Add a proper Diminishing return formula to Shield resistance. (it should be the same formula on hull and shields)
5) Remove one console slot from every ship... and add 2 General Equipment console slots. (do a quick once over of all uni consoles converting most of them to General Equip status... and a few of them to Engi / Sci / Tac as required)
6) Add the SAME diminishing return formula that would then be on Hull and Shield resists to Damage multiplication skills.
7) Once again take our lovely handy dandy diminishing return formula and apply it to Boff passives. (pretty much instantly fixing romulans). Further on boffs... halve the length of the ambush dmg time bonus that is on Reman boffs and Reman captain skills.
8) RE-Tool... every current Que PvE mission. Delete the E and N modes. Just have one que for each mission... create 4 difficulty levels for each mission. Start collecting data from players doing missions. Track there total DPS done in each mission... there total HPS out put... Objectives times... which ever other data might be of use. Set the PvE que up so that it takes the "Score" from each of the players on the team... averages them out and sets the difficulty mode for there game to one of the 4 modes. (Rewards would be standardized)
9) Take the PvE auto Que system and adapt it for PvP. Use it in the new No team Que they are adding. Again taking collected data from each player in the que... and using that data to auto balance the teams to ensure better match making. (much much better then gear score ideas for balancing... as it would be using actual player numbers not just going on a gear rating which doesn't reflect actual player skill)
Long list right... I might be wrong... but I don't think there is much there many players could argue with it if was all put into the game at the same time.
But people's wallets is what buys them a nifty JHAS, you know one of the most desired ships that hasn't and most likely never just like 99% of any ship ever help in the balancing battle.
While this is being sarcastic for say, it shows they prefer money over complete balance.
Well in truth no game is every perfectly balanced... games like that are always boring.
I agree there is always something you can buy that is a bit of a + that is life playing a PWE game I thihnk.
Having said that though I do find that the fleet ships are pretty much a match for the lockbox ships for the most part. The JHAS sure it might be the perfect escort no doubt there... really though the patrol escort isn't far off. I also love the Fleet escort refit... yes the numbers are slightly lower then the bug. I have to say though it feels almost the same flying it. Anyway yes if they fix the basics I think a little bit of the + stuff isn't going to kill the game.
I think we can all admit though... the fact that so many people can jump into 30k DPS ships does make it really hard for them to balance the conetent... when many players are doing good if they break 10k. It really is a hard gap to work with. Look at my last post though... I know how they fix it... its a tiered auto difficulty system.
I agree with you completely. I am also not sure if the newest borg set change is really going to fix the issues with it. http://hilbertguide.com/leaderboard/datamining.php check out Mancoms data mine from the leader board data. (I know this is pvp data... still the set usage is almost the same in PvE) Click on his Hull healing chart. Its funny to see the borg set accounting for half the games hull healing. This is after the first nerf as well... the old data sets had it closer to 3/4 of the games healing. Its a bad joke.
I have heard there plan is to buff some of the other sets like the Reman... I don't know we'll see I really can't see anything displacing the borg anytime soon for most people even if they halve the healing from that 2 pc its still the clear choice.
We both agree a lot of stuff needs to change... this is why I am not going to fight them on this one. (not that I don't agree 100% anyway). Just one of the reasons I am supporting them hard, is I want them to KNOW there are plenty of people in this game that do want to see it turn into a more enjoyable experience. The only way to get there is more balance... which YES does effect PvE I'm not just talking PvP here folks. The game needs to be balanced out more so they can give us hard mode PvE that doesn't cause them so many wine threads they deleted it or water it down a week later.
This is the list of stuff I would do if I was them and i wouldn't wait I would make all of this a priority...
1) Yes go forward with this change.
2) Change Energy weapon skills... Allow Rapid fire to work with beams or cannons. Allow overload to work with cannons or beams. Rename Scatter Volley Fire at Will allow it to work with both and delete the current bugged for 4 years FAW.
3) Change the Global of Aux to Bat back to the EPTx Global that it was on when the Tech doffs where released. (instantly fixing that issue) Also tweek a few doffs directly doffs like the warp core cleanse doff needs a chance reduction.
4) Add a proper Diminishing return formula to Shield resistance. (it should be the same formula on hull and shields)
5) Remove one console slot from every ship... and add 2 General Equipment console slots. (do a quick once over of all uni consoles converting most of them to General Equip status... and a few of them to Engi / Sci / Tac as required)
6) Add the SAME diminishing return formula that would then be on Hull and Shield resists to Damage multiplication skills.
7) Once again take our lovely handy dandy diminishing return formula and apply it to Boff passives. (pretty much instantly fixing romulans). Further on boffs... halve the length of the ambush dmg time bonus that is on Reman boffs and Reman captain skills.
8) RE-Tool... every current Que PvE mission. Delete the E and N modes. Just have one que for each mission... create 4 difficulty levels for each mission. Start collecting data from players doing missions. Track there total DPS done in each mission... there total HPS out put... Objectives times... which ever other data might be of use. Set the PvE que up so that it takes the "Score" from each of the players on the team... averages them out and sets the difficulty mode for there game to one of the 4 modes. (Rewards would be standardized)
9) Take the PvE auto Que system and adapt it for PvP. Use it in the new No team Que they are adding. Again taking collected data from each player in the que... and using that data to auto balance the teams to ensure better match making. (much much better then gear score ideas for balancing... as it would be using actual player numbers not just going on a gear rating which doesn't reflect actual player skill)
Long list right... I might be wrong... but I don't think there is much there many players could argue with it if was all put into the game at the same time.
I still say the best balanced battle would consist of no rep passives, absolutely no consoles, no rep or fleet gear, no doffs, only captain and boff skills, boff and captain traits (rom/rem has been over time honed for balance), ship, and regular obtained shield/engine/deflector/core be used in ALL pvp battles, whether they be 1v1 or more.
I still say the best balanced battle would consist of no rep passives, absolutely no consoles, no rep or fleet gear, no doffs, only captain and boff skills, boff and captain traits (rom/rem has been over time honed for balance), ship, and regular obtained shield/engine/deflector/core be used in ALL pvp battles, whether they be 1v1 or more.
I agree... I would favor a GW2 Style system if where a perfect world. haha pun intended.
We both know they will never ever do that though... so best case scenario is for them to at least get it to a place where things work better.
I do play PvE as well though... and I know its painful to admit... but the game is just as and perhaps more broken in regard to PvE right now. I think the stuff I listed off is needed for PvE almost worse then PvP... as they say all the time they could delete PvP and the game would go on. They can't Delete PvE so I think it is time they start looking at the real issues instead of doing band aid fixes. (junk like every new mission being on a set timer).
The suggested the changes I did ... because I think they really could save the PvE in this game... combo those changes up with a smart que. (and yes I admit I suggest that because the tech easily transfers to a proper PvP que system lol).
The thing is the stuff I listed... SHOULD be no more then a couple weeks of work not counting testing phases... unless there code really is that butchered. Which is possible. lol
How many more grinding rep projects do you want to bring out!!???? WTH you planning on having 200 different rep trees? Keep the current system in place, but on the new tree's let u pick and choose between them. Make them active,clickable or passive how ever you want to describe them. So with the current rep tree skills keep that system how it is with that amount of useable skills.. A 1 time choice unless you buy a respect token. Then with the new trees let u swap those skills in and out. This way you wont be TRIBBLE every one who worked hard to get all of their toons to teir 5 rep.
Besides you should be working on all the bugs that you know about in game to make the game actually playable. Fix ur graphic coding you screwed up but claim its to expensive to fix even tho it was easy to TRIBBLE up, fix the mute in fleet chats since we cant unmute people. We have to have a game admin do it ect ect... That or please sell the game to a company who actually knows what they are doing. You are loosing unique log in's and even game subscribers because your TRIBBLE the game up big time. I for one will not spend another dime because I can't even enjoy 1/2 of the game since ur coding TRIBBLE up....
And by the way the more balanced you make a game the worse it becomes. A example a Oberth class ship being killed by a BOP, then the Oberth class captain cries to cryptic saying the BOP is OP when in fact the Oberth class never stood a chance in any realm.. So cryptic goes in and nefs every one.... So guess what it didn't fix anything, just pissed every one else off because some one used the wrong ship, wrong gear and didn't know what they were doing.
First off, throwing in a reference to the Galaxy Revamp isn't exactly what you intended, right?
You misread. I said Galaxy Reboot. Which is what Cryptic called it, in their news and blog. I'm referring specifically to Cryptic's own name for it.
Although there has been various amounts of success with the Galaxy-X (a la fleet),
Which is exactly what I'm talking about. The amount of complaining and raging over the Fleet Galaxy X Dreadnaught was very high. Yet the ship was improved with the Galaxy Reboot and the fleet version as we've seen since it went live has been doing well in builds and parses and feedback from people who actually stopped looking at it on paper and used it.
That's what I'm saying will happen here. When people stop looking at these changes on paper (well those that actually have read the changes, instead of just following along with the flow of forum rage), will find a way to min-max the skills and people will be happy with the "dimes" Hawk is giving out instead of the "nickels" they used to have.
Just like how people were flipping out that the GX didn't get a Lt. Commander BOFF seat. And yet, here we are with people posting GX parses of 30K Deeps.
the Galaxy or its fleet variant didn't get a thing changed.
Nothing I posted had anything to do with the Galaxy Retrofit.
But people's wallets is what buys them a nifty JHAS, you know one of the most desired ships that hasn't and most likely never just like 99% of any ship ever help in the balancing battle.
While this is being sarcastic for say, it shows they prefer money over complete balance.
That is why I was laughing though.
Its silly to threaten to stop spending money over something you didn't pay for.
When We have all proven to them that we WILL pull our wallets out the second they shake a little carrot in our face.
Threats that people are making to stop spending money over this... they are a joke. Because those same people claim they have spent "1000s" ect... which means they are the ones buying the real P2W items which cryptic isn't removing or even saying they are not doing anymore. So... ya they aren't going anywhere with there $. lol
The fact that so many of you are delighted by how much more OP you can build your ship is the very reason this change, as formulated, fails.
Don't worry those same people are going to be back here a week after the change... complaining that there new bug fixed borg set isn't healing them enough anymore. That they can't just run 2 copies of EPTW... they had to use there Hazareds 1 to heal instead of just clear borg bording parties... and its all BS man. lol
I am not saying this is going to force people to have to really build in a bunch of heals... still they are going to need more I think. Even for the current easy mode content.
Hard to say how it will shake out till this is tested. To be honest I havn't played a toon with no rep in so long I can't honesty say how much of a change it really will be either.
Just to make sure I have this right. A few questions. Now we'll have to choose abilities rather than keep them all?
Also, did they just eliminate the shield frequency modulation on the omega rep? We'll have to modulate shields now with that device modulator every few seconds?
I don't know. This doesn't seem helpful to players. Was it done to slow power creep?
Men is that is true I'm done because all sto is ..... is grind after grind their is no good story anymore they become a grind fest because they need money.
Well if thats the case I wish they never gone F2P....
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Men is that is true I'm done because all sto is ..... is grind after grind their is no good story anymore they become a grind fest because they need money.
Well if thats the case I wish they never gone F2P....
Yeah its truely getting that boring same thing season after season just throwing some voice overs to try to make it seem like its more than what it actually is. Those of us feeling same way they are trying to say don't say you'll quit lol. Being that it is F2P they will lose people so if we don't like what they are doing we will just quit playing. Although this is their worst fear because even if you aren't paying them anything in a lot of ways you are when you are supplying body space for those who are paying to do their qued missions.
So i'm with you on that no good story and just a grind that after awhile they want to redo their ceiling so they remove most of what you worked on. That doesn't fly with me so they can just rely on whoever stays heh I won't be a part of STO anymore either.
Don't worry those same people are going to be back here a week after the change... complaining that there new bug fixed borg set isn't healing them enough anymore. That they can't just run 2 copies of EPTW... they had to use there Hazareds 1 to heal instead of just clear borg bording parties... and its all BS man. lol
I am not saying this is going to force people to have to really build in a bunch of heals... still they are going to need more I think. Even for the current easy mode content.
Hard to say how it will shake out till this is tested. To be honest I havn't played a toon with no rep in so long I can't honesty say how much of a change it really will be either.
Oh, but i think that those who have a really firm understanding of how the game works have already passed judgement.
I've noted many posters, usually PvP specialists but not all of them, seeing a definite buff to min maxing from this. You included. At least on other posts you have made.
If we are to take Hawk at his word, we have to conclude that this change simply doesn't do what its supposed to.
Now, if we're talking about a more in depth revamp of multiple systems to achieve the laudable goal, then I'd be very happy.
But, as you have implied, they have to work together to do what is necessary.
If this is to be followed by a revamp of, lets say, doff stacking, then shouldn't Hawk come out and say something along those lines?
Because, what I'm seeing from those who seem to feel motivated to argue with my viewpoint here is that i need to trust cryptic to do the necessary next steps.
Well, because Cryptic, I'd like a bit more of an explicit staement from Hawk as to the direction we're going in here.
Reason I say that is I have 8 characters currently, and now I have no more reason to even bother with the rep system.. I will pick which 8 I want and get those. After that I can go back to playing the game for fun.
So thank you cryptic for giving me a reason to not Grind reps!
Ok so heres what im confused on... So right now we have 4 reps. With the new system coming does that mean that I will have to pick 4 passives out of all 4 reps? Like 1 from omega, 1 from rom.. ect..?..
Ok so heres what im confused on... So right now we have 4 reps. With the new system coming does that mean that I will have to pick 4 passives out of all 4 reps? Like 1 from omega, 1 from rom.. ect..?..
As currently proposed, each time you tier up in any rep you get two passives that go into one of two pools; space and ground.
You will have two baskets to put active ones in, currently four slots in each, one for space and one for ground.
Thus, someone with tier four in all four current reps will have 16 passives in each pool, and will be able to slot four of them.
Currently there are no restrictions.
It is fair to say that the lack of restrictions is something that some people (me) think is problematic.
Ok so heres what im confused on... So right now we have 4 reps. With the new system coming does that mean that I will have to pick 4 passives out of all 4 reps? Like 1 from omega, 1 from rom.. ect..?..
Basically what it means is you had 5 from 4 reps so you have 20 altogether. Now under this brilliant new system you can pick any of the 40 but you only get to pick 4 space and 4 ground out of them. So essentially you are loosing 12 passives per character that maxed all 4 reps. That is what the big uproar is about and how they basically instilled this grind just to take away the fruits of the labor and basically are like fall in line or quit playing is their motto.
Yep I do agree with you... they do need to go much further. I do agree with this change, I do believe it has to happen either way. More and more reps are only going to make it worse.
I really really do hope they are serious about getting to there design goal. If they are I think we agree they need to pull the band aids all at once. Don't give people something new to QQ about for months on end as they slowly try to fix things. Just get it done.
It is fair to say that the lack of restrictions is something that some people (me) think is problematic.
Lack of restrictions? Really? Seems to me you are the only one who thinks this is a problem, then yet again you sit here and talk about Diversity, Creativity and Choices under restriction? :rolleyes:
I have tried to skim through the forums and blogs about it and i am a little confused.I have tier 5 on a few of the tabs like New romulus and Dyson...
1. Is this all lost and going to force me to restart the rep?
or
2. Do i keep the tier 5 but lose the reward?
What a World...Server Crash...Respawn....borg Invades ...Respawn...
Comments
Go re read the blog post.
Cryptic makes very few changes with the thought of PvP in mind. In 4 years the amount of changes made for the good of PvP can be listed in about 3 lines. Nice try.
This is about being able to balance end game content... Which they can't do when they have 50s... and 50+ and 50+++ all trying to do the same content.
It is why they failed hard with Hive... and why they have changed every new mission for over a year now to a style that involves a strict time cloak.
Do you wonder why we don't get new STF style missions where you get to go in and blow everything up and complete it in as fast a time as you can ?
The answer is simple you are earning reward faster then they like... which is why new missions have 60s briefings and ALL end after exactly 10min passes. The fact that you CAN'T fail them and you CAN'T finish them faster is what makes them all so darn boring. Jump in game right now and tell me how many people are qued up for Infected... and compare that to ANY other mission... Romulan Dyson even fleet missions. I'll bet you right now as you read this what ever time it is here is 80-150 in the Infected que... and 3 or 4 in the Vault.
In order to be able to properly set difficulty levels... and have a game where people are not earning rewards faster then the Cryptic money men like... they need to ensure the GAP between 50 and 50 with + + + + Reps isn't 60s Infected runs vs 15min. Which lets all get real is pretty close to where its at.
This is 100% a PvE change... They have stated it and reaffirmed it and if you read the Blog post and the goals they are trying to achieve that is obviously the truth. Any positive effect on PvP is trickle down happiness.
The fact of the matter of collecting them is part of the fun, being able to use all of what I collect is the other 50%.
This now will knock almost 50% of the fun in having them, and I never really rely on them for balance.
I don't get 20k+ dps from rep traits alone, I most certainly get it from gear, skills, ships, boffs, doffs, lobi toys, lockbox toys, and captain traits.
Even with these so called uber rep traits, people pop in seconds and will continue to do so even with the change, so how much balance do you really think this change will bring?
10%? 20%? 30%? maybe at best.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
You are quite correct this isn't the only source of detrimental game creep in the game.
So I guess now its time for us to see if Cryptic are Men of there word.
There stated design goal is to reduce power creep so they can release end game content that is fun and challenging for all. (its unwritten but I think we can assume that means missions that last 7-12 min every run no matter who is playing).
We will see... as I see it I agree there are many more sources of creep.
Rep wasn't the least of them... of course your right its not the only source.
If they really want to reach there goal... we can expect more changes.
As I have been saying for the last few days... get ready folks they seem serious this time... so you can be sure there are going to be more blog posts that are going to tick some of you off.
Do you listen to yourself? Because it's kind of silly, what you're saying.
"You don't lose those abilities."
While technically true, you lose the USE of them. So when it comes right down to it, you lose them.
The reason people are annoyed by this idiotic idea (yet another in a long line of idiotic ideas by Cryptic - starting with "We should pick up the Trek IP because we can make a huge buck off of it by doing shoddy, horrible programming) is that they've worked VERY hard to earn the reps and their respective abilities.
Now, I've been in this game for four years. None of my characters have maxxed rep, because frankly I don't care about rep. I don't like grinding in an Eastern-style MMO. So I'm not very bothered and I managed to get through the game just fine while kicking some serious... well, the forum won't let me say it, so let's just say that I prod some serious buttock.
"Veterans" become veterans for a reason - they've spent the time and effort to hone their skills and learn new abilities. That's what "veteran" means.
New players SHOULDN'T be on the same playing field as veterans - not out of the gate. They should need to earn their abilities to become veterans themselves, just like in the real world. I'm not sure why this concept is alien to you, or if it even is alien to you; but it sure sounds like it.
There really is no need for this nerf - except that I guarantee you that somehow, some way, not long after this travesty against STO veterans, they'll introduce something in the C-Store that lets you use all of your abilities the way you used to - they way you originally EARNED them.
Anyone who actually believes they won't find a way to monetize this is a naive fool.
And finally, want to stop the power creep in its tracks? Stop the rep nonsense entirely. It's nothing but grind, adds nothing to the game but grind, and is actually pushing players out because they want more than grind.
If they added any actual CONTENT with some decent STORY and basic INTELLIGENCE to the game, then that would be an improvement. (Caps for the benefit of any Dev with a shred of self respect as a developer who might read and comprehend these subtleties.)
Well their umpteenth fix to the borg 3pc proc is a start, but they killed that with the solanae heal proc timer removal.
Guess now both will be closer on par, but like many have stated the have all shield array is a fleet one.
If such a piece of gear is the have all go to piece of gear, than some change needs take place there as well, not that I don't approve that fleet gear shouldn't be superior gear, but with how easy it can be obtained makes it in need of some possible nerfing to closer match rep gears energy weapons reduction levels 10-20%.
Than they thru in the whopping 30% fleet consoles to I guess, to stifle off the exchange inflation of VR mkxi and mkxii consoles, of course making them a possible loot drop would have helped with the mkxii's.
All I know is they need go farther than this kick in the nads to so called bring balance to the game, otherwise it will still stay way out of control as newer money grabs from new ship releases, rep gear added, more fleet gear, more OP doffs, lockbox toys, lobi toys, etc...
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
If any of you have ever played another MMO game you should have seen this was coming. I think most game vets knew when this launched it needed to have a limit on the number slotted. Perhaps not when the first rep came but for sure the second. It was clear then they where just going to keep doing more reps.
What do you folks think will happen when there are 10 reps.... and don't shoot it down with the come on there are 4 argument. In a few weeks there will be 5... by the end of the year I will bet any of you 100mil ec there will be 7. So unless you are expecting the servers to be closed January 1 2015... at some point in the not that distant future there really will be 10.
Of course there has to be a limit on the number people have active... they should have added it day one no doubt... glad they are doing it now though myself.
Having said that feel free to argue for More slots ect if you think it makes more sense... however to argue that the entire idea is bad is just so silly I almost can't fathom that people can think they are right on that.
At the very least log your toons into tribble this weekend and group up with each other go run some content... realize that this change makes almost no difference. It is future proofing future added content that is the main win here. Once you have all seen how minor of a change this is to your current setups I think you can all calm down and stop yelling about your wallets and such. lol
And ... ? You've still got what you've earned, in fact you've now suddenly got better than you've earned.
You just can't use as many at the same time as before.
And that's pretty obviously necessary if they're going to introduce more reps with more shinies to collect.
No toys have been taken away, in fact the toys have been improved. You just can't play with as many of the toys all at once as before. You now have to make an extra decision that wasn't there before.
That's a nerf of sorts, sure, but it's also a plus (more choices, more thought, is good) it's a good nerf that equalizes high-end players a bit better.
But British comedy is brilliant!
Wait, I still haven't completed the Full Monty Python set... But I am looking into this thread. Maybe you have a point.
But you still collect these powers. You collect actually more, because now you don't have to choose between which powers you learn - you unlock both for each rank in a reputation, and can at any point choose which ones to use - without having to pay anything.
If it's just collecting, you now have more. If it's about power - well, each power you slotted is now better than before, but you can't slot them all anymore. Give some, take away some.
But people's wallets is what buys them a nifty JHAS, you know one of the most desired ships that hasn't and most likely never just like 99% of any ship ever help in the balancing battle.
While this is being sarcastic for say, it shows they prefer money over complete balance.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I agree with you completely. I am also not sure if the newest borg set change is really going to fix the issues with it. http://hilbertguide.com/leaderboard/datamining.php check out Mancoms data mine from the leader board data. (I know this is pvp data... still the set usage is almost the same in PvE) Click on his Hull healing chart. Its funny to see the borg set accounting for half the games hull healing. This is after the first nerf as well... the old data sets had it closer to 3/4 of the games healing. Its a bad joke.
I have heard there plan is to buff some of the other sets like the Reman... I don't know we'll see I really can't see anything displacing the borg anytime soon for most people even if they halve the healing from that 2 pc its still the clear choice.
We both agree a lot of stuff needs to change... this is why I am not going to fight them on this one. (not that I don't agree 100% anyway). Just one of the reasons I am supporting them hard, is I want them to KNOW there are plenty of people in this game that do want to see it turn into a more enjoyable experience. The only way to get there is more balance... which YES does effect PvE I'm not just talking PvP here folks. The game needs to be balanced out more so they can give us hard mode PvE that doesn't cause them so many wine threads they deleted it or water it down a week later.
This is the list of stuff I would do if I was them and i wouldn't wait I would make all of this a priority...
1) Yes go forward with this change.
2) Change Energy weapon skills... Allow Rapid fire to work with beams or cannons. Allow overload to work with cannons or beams. Rename Scatter Volley Fire at Will allow it to work with both and delete the current bugged for 4 years FAW.
3) Change the Global of Aux to Bat back to the EPTx Global that it was on when the Tech doffs where released. (instantly fixing that issue) Also tweek a few doffs directly doffs like the warp core cleanse doff needs a chance reduction.
4) Add a proper Diminishing return formula to Shield resistance. (it should be the same formula on hull and shields)
5) Remove one console slot from every ship... and add 2 General Equipment console slots. (do a quick once over of all uni consoles converting most of them to General Equip status... and a few of them to Engi / Sci / Tac as required)
6) Add the SAME diminishing return formula that would then be on Hull and Shield resists to Damage multiplication skills.
7) Once again take our lovely handy dandy diminishing return formula and apply it to Boff passives. (pretty much instantly fixing romulans). Further on boffs... halve the length of the ambush dmg time bonus that is on Reman boffs and Reman captain skills.
8) RE-Tool... every current Que PvE mission. Delete the E and N modes. Just have one que for each mission... create 4 difficulty levels for each mission. Start collecting data from players doing missions. Track there total DPS done in each mission... there total HPS out put... Objectives times... which ever other data might be of use. Set the PvE que up so that it takes the "Score" from each of the players on the team... averages them out and sets the difficulty mode for there game to one of the 4 modes. (Rewards would be standardized)
9) Take the PvE auto Que system and adapt it for PvP. Use it in the new No team Que they are adding. Again taking collected data from each player in the que... and using that data to auto balance the teams to ensure better match making. (much much better then gear score ideas for balancing... as it would be using actual player numbers not just going on a gear rating which doesn't reflect actual player skill)
Long list right... I might be wrong... but I don't think there is much there many players could argue with it if was all put into the game at the same time.
Well in truth no game is every perfectly balanced... games like that are always boring.
I agree there is always something you can buy that is a bit of a + that is life playing a PWE game I thihnk.
Having said that though I do find that the fleet ships are pretty much a match for the lockbox ships for the most part. The JHAS sure it might be the perfect escort no doubt there... really though the patrol escort isn't far off. I also love the Fleet escort refit... yes the numbers are slightly lower then the bug. I have to say though it feels almost the same flying it. Anyway yes if they fix the basics I think a little bit of the + stuff isn't going to kill the game.
I think we can all admit though... the fact that so many people can jump into 30k DPS ships does make it really hard for them to balance the conetent... when many players are doing good if they break 10k. It really is a hard gap to work with. Look at my last post though... I know how they fix it... its a tiered auto difficulty system.
I still say the best balanced battle would consist of no rep passives, absolutely no consoles, no rep or fleet gear, no doffs, only captain and boff skills, boff and captain traits (rom/rem has been over time honed for balance), ship, and regular obtained shield/engine/deflector/core be used in ALL pvp battles, whether they be 1v1 or more.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I agree... I would favor a GW2 Style system if where a perfect world. haha pun intended.
We both know they will never ever do that though... so best case scenario is for them to at least get it to a place where things work better.
I do play PvE as well though... and I know its painful to admit... but the game is just as and perhaps more broken in regard to PvE right now. I think the stuff I listed off is needed for PvE almost worse then PvP... as they say all the time they could delete PvP and the game would go on. They can't Delete PvE so I think it is time they start looking at the real issues instead of doing band aid fixes. (junk like every new mission being on a set timer).
The suggested the changes I did ... because I think they really could save the PvE in this game... combo those changes up with a smart que. (and yes I admit I suggest that because the tech easily transfers to a proper PvP que system lol).
The thing is the stuff I listed... SHOULD be no more then a couple weeks of work not counting testing phases... unless there code really is that butchered. Which is possible. lol
Besides you should be working on all the bugs that you know about in game to make the game actually playable. Fix ur graphic coding you screwed up but claim its to expensive to fix even tho it was easy to TRIBBLE up, fix the mute in fleet chats since we cant unmute people. We have to have a game admin do it ect ect... That or please sell the game to a company who actually knows what they are doing. You are loosing unique log in's and even game subscribers because your TRIBBLE the game up big time. I for one will not spend another dime because I can't even enjoy 1/2 of the game since ur coding TRIBBLE up....
And by the way the more balanced you make a game the worse it becomes. A example a Oberth class ship being killed by a BOP, then the Oberth class captain cries to cryptic saying the BOP is OP when in fact the Oberth class never stood a chance in any realm.. So cryptic goes in and nefs every one.... So guess what it didn't fix anything, just pissed every one else off because some one used the wrong ship, wrong gear and didn't know what they were doing.
You misread. I said Galaxy Reboot. Which is what Cryptic called it, in their news and blog. I'm referring specifically to Cryptic's own name for it.
Which is exactly what I'm talking about. The amount of complaining and raging over the Fleet Galaxy X Dreadnaught was very high. Yet the ship was improved with the Galaxy Reboot and the fleet version as we've seen since it went live has been doing well in builds and parses and feedback from people who actually stopped looking at it on paper and used it.
That's what I'm saying will happen here. When people stop looking at these changes on paper (well those that actually have read the changes, instead of just following along with the flow of forum rage), will find a way to min-max the skills and people will be happy with the "dimes" Hawk is giving out instead of the "nickels" they used to have.
Just like how people were flipping out that the GX didn't get a Lt. Commander BOFF seat. And yet, here we are with people posting GX parses of 30K Deeps.
Nothing I posted had anything to do with the Galaxy Retrofit.
Actually, thats precisely the point I am complaining about.
Because that gap, between the skilled min maxer and the newly minted VA, was precisely what this change was supposed to address.
It's supposed to make that gap smaller, not bigger.
That is, at least, what Audjudicatorhawk has explicitally told us its about.
The fact that so many of you are delighted by how much more OP you can build your ship is the very reason this change, as formulated, fails.
That is why I was laughing though.
Its silly to threaten to stop spending money over something you didn't pay for.
When We have all proven to them that we WILL pull our wallets out the second they shake a little carrot in our face.
Threats that people are making to stop spending money over this... they are a joke. Because those same people claim they have spent "1000s" ect... which means they are the ones buying the real P2W items which cryptic isn't removing or even saying they are not doing anymore. So... ya they aren't going anywhere with there $. lol
Don't worry those same people are going to be back here a week after the change... complaining that there new bug fixed borg set isn't healing them enough anymore. That they can't just run 2 copies of EPTW... they had to use there Hazareds 1 to heal instead of just clear borg bording parties... and its all BS man. lol
I am not saying this is going to force people to have to really build in a bunch of heals... still they are going to need more I think. Even for the current easy mode content.
Hard to say how it will shake out till this is tested. To be honest I havn't played a toon with no rep in so long I can't honesty say how much of a change it really will be either.
Men is that is true I'm done because all sto is ..... is grind after grind their is no good story anymore they become a grind fest because they need money.
Well if thats the case I wish they never gone F2P....
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Yeah its truely getting that boring same thing season after season just throwing some voice overs to try to make it seem like its more than what it actually is. Those of us feeling same way they are trying to say don't say you'll quit lol. Being that it is F2P they will lose people so if we don't like what they are doing we will just quit playing. Although this is their worst fear because even if you aren't paying them anything in a lot of ways you are when you are supplying body space for those who are paying to do their qued missions.
So i'm with you on that no good story and just a grind that after awhile they want to redo their ceiling so they remove most of what you worked on. That doesn't fly with me so they can just rely on whoever stays heh I won't be a part of STO anymore either.
Oh, but i think that those who have a really firm understanding of how the game works have already passed judgement.
I've noted many posters, usually PvP specialists but not all of them, seeing a definite buff to min maxing from this. You included. At least on other posts you have made.
If we are to take Hawk at his word, we have to conclude that this change simply doesn't do what its supposed to.
Now, if we're talking about a more in depth revamp of multiple systems to achieve the laudable goal, then I'd be very happy.
But, as you have implied, they have to work together to do what is necessary.
If this is to be followed by a revamp of, lets say, doff stacking, then shouldn't Hawk come out and say something along those lines?
Because, what I'm seeing from those who seem to feel motivated to argue with my viewpoint here is that i need to trust cryptic to do the necessary next steps.
Well, because Cryptic, I'd like a bit more of an explicit staement from Hawk as to the direction we're going in here.
Otherwise, its just buffing the min maxers.
Reason I say that is I have 8 characters currently, and now I have no more reason to even bother with the rep system.. I will pick which 8 I want and get those. After that I can go back to playing the game for fun.
So thank you cryptic for giving me a reason to not Grind reps!
Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
As currently proposed, each time you tier up in any rep you get two passives that go into one of two pools; space and ground.
You will have two baskets to put active ones in, currently four slots in each, one for space and one for ground.
Thus, someone with tier four in all four current reps will have 16 passives in each pool, and will be able to slot four of them.
Currently there are no restrictions.
It is fair to say that the lack of restrictions is something that some people (me) think is problematic.
Basically what it means is you had 5 from 4 reps so you have 20 altogether. Now under this brilliant new system you can pick any of the 40 but you only get to pick 4 space and 4 ground out of them. So essentially you are loosing 12 passives per character that maxed all 4 reps. That is what the big uproar is about and how they basically instilled this grind just to take away the fruits of the labor and basically are like fall in line or quit playing is their motto.
Yep I do agree with you... they do need to go much further. I do agree with this change, I do believe it has to happen either way. More and more reps are only going to make it worse.
I really really do hope they are serious about getting to there design goal. If they are I think we agree they need to pull the band aids all at once. Don't give people something new to QQ about for months on end as they slowly try to fix things. Just get it done.
Lack of restrictions? Really? Seems to me you are the only one who thinks this is a problem, then yet again you sit here and talk about Diversity, Creativity and Choices under restriction? :rolleyes:
1. Is this all lost and going to force me to restart the rep?
or
2. Do i keep the tier 5 but lose the reward?
Always.