Yes, they are in addition to, not in place of, your Character Traits.
How about responding to the other post? They could have made the base for the new system, the current system as to passive skills. Not limiting what people earned.
Cryptic sucks and have no respect for the loyal player base. Additionally, incompetence on a grand scale.
Hey devs, you managed to surprise me! :-)
A bold step into the right direction. Kudos!
I'm really curious to see how this will play out in the long run.
To be absolutely honest, I am not really worried of it being a nerf or not. The game is easy enough and not exactly challenging as it is. And I like limits and choices instead of static 'best builds' and pure power creep.
If this change improves balance just a tiny bit, or reduces power creep, or simply increases diversity a little, then it is worth it.
I only hope it doesn't stop there.
As someone else pointed out, most of the power creep comes from (especially powerful) duty officers, ships and consoles.
How about responding to the other post? the rest edited out, out of respect
While a bit harsh, agreeable. 140 pages of people saying bad idea and the one post answered is about something addressed in the blog already. Shows an utter lack in consideration for the players that stick around longer than a week or two.
So after we grinded 40+ dayes to earn us all these powers you tell us that we can use only some of them ?
So just a question if the issue is veteran players beeing overpowered against new players pvp wise wouldnt a ranking system fix that problem without swinging the big old nerf bat ?
And btw as a Veteran player and after all the time put into getting where i am right now i think i deserve to outgunn a novice player at any given time
So after we grinded 40+ dayes to earn us all these powers you tell us that we can use only some of them ?
So just a question if the issue is veteran players beeing overpowered against new players pvp wise wouldnt a ranking system fix that problem without swinging the big old nerf bat ?
A simpler way to appeal to all parties involved. Guild Wars did power separation well enough. Change passives to work differently or to a lesser extent in PvP. Right now, all my builds depend on a good balance of ALL the rep passives for offense and defense. This change is an unnecessary nerf to MY playstyle. Why should the way I play be changed because of the ineptitude of the developers? If the passives are so OP that they need these changes, why were they allowed to exist as such for the past 2 years? Shouldn't they have been changed earlier so people wouldn't have gotten as pissed as they're getting now?
Not everyone thinks this is a bad idea. I, for one, think it's a very good idea, and a necessary one.
The amount of misinformation, disinformation, whining, fallacious logic, and outright entitlement in this thread is nauseating. Fortunately, the developers have a much better view of the big picture than the spoiled players posting over and over because their trinkets are getting moved around, and more patience for player foolishness than could be expected of anyone.
So after we grinded 40+ dayes to earn us all these powers you tell us that we can use only some of them ?
So just a question if the issue is veteran players beeing overpowered against new players pvp wise wouldnt a ranking system fix that problem without swinging the big old nerf bat ?
OMFG thank you! A ranking system has been asked for countless times over. But logic is a weak point here
Honestly i dont see why new players would be turn off by it.
Cryptic put it as if it sound IMPOSSIBLE to reach t5 on the reps... It isnt, in fact i see it as a good way to keep players playng it.
Also if a new rep put some powers (on that new system) that is a must, people will have to keep griding the same way... but what is bad is all the old grinds will be useless as the new ones will make the old obsolet with only 4 slots for each.
If its indeed hard for new players to grind the rep (even tho i think it isnt) then make a fleet system so they can spouncer players who have no rep and are on the fleet, or something like that.
Also as some one point out, the real "power creeps" moved on to aux2bat, that rep dont affect too much realy. So wont stop then.
Not to mention two things. One, there will always be a diferent, the guy with T5 shipyard on the fleet, fleet weapons, so on.
Whats next tune down the scimmitar, fleet weapons, set bonus...
Power creeps arent realy that bad (and im not one of then), in fact it can make people keep playng more and more to become one.
Remind me of the old Quake days.
If a good player had a rocket and the best armor, pluss the 200% health you had no chance.
If a bad player had it he would die very quick.
You could lock the game to dont respwn health, armor and weapons and let every one with just a shotgun... the skill players who spend hours on quake world would still dominate...
This wont change nothing, who invest in be the best will always have the edge on something.
I will repeat my suggestion : That they increase the rep passives to match the number of reps they have running. So with the Undine rep you would get 5/5. If they add a 6th rep you get 6/6. This would slow down the power creep greatly, but at the same time make starting up a new rep seem worthwhile. 4/4 with 5 rep systems just seems like it is based on the current 4 reps and is a major mental disincentive to participate in the new 5th rep.
While a bit harsh, agreeable. 140 pages of people saying bad idea and the one post answered is about something addressed in the blog already. Shows an utter lack in consideration for the players that stick around longer than a week or two.
While today this is true - yesterday Hawk was quite active - but you can only keep up with a Trek rant for so long and stay sane.
I don't like the changes, but I have come to accept the fact that they won't make any significant changes at this point.
I am not sure what else Hawk or any other Dev could add at this point in the discussion.
I will repeat my suggestion : That they increase the rep passives to match the number of reps they have running. So with the Undine rep you would get 5/5. If they add a 6th rep you get 6/6. This would slow down the power creep greatly, but at the same time make starting up a new rep seem worthwhile. 4/4 with 5 rep systems just seems like it is based on the current 4 reps and is a major mental disincentive to participate in the new 5th rep.
I've read every post in this thread up to this point. My brain is a little bit mushy, and some off-color bolded caps posts got skimmed, but for the most part I've kept up.
I want to mention once more, all of this should be available to test on Tribble this week. Please play with it, provide further feedback after testing it out, and try to communicate as clearly as possible what you like, what you don't like, and why - the why of it will help us figure out what we can do to address your concerns.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Power creep comes from Ships, duty officers, and consoles. Rep powers are just 5% of the problem. To be honest it's the last thing Cryptic should be messing with right now. So it's 140 pages of people saying don't nullify all my hard work just for some lazy losers to be near the same power level as me. Stopping power creep at the lowest possible area, nice going crypitc.
People need to just grind rep just like we did. All of it. Hard work! We earned our powers. Let us use what we earned.
just for some lazy losers to be near the same power level as me.
- this to me seems a bit harsh.
But the rest strikes me as spot on.
Partly because we've been selling deliberate power creep for some time now and locking the rest of it away as "rewards" behind one grind after another, just to keep us playing longer and to keep content relevant longer.
It was a bad decision then, and now the rest of the contributory elements continue, as pointed out, because this is and has been business as usual for sometime now.
It somewhat troubling that the first step in the process of fixing the issue, is to take away some of what players have earned. This to me never seems a good idea. Especially as it's true that when you include dilithium into the mix, REAL MONEY gets involved too.
Yes, they are in addition to, not in place of, your Character Traits.
What are you doing here???!!! For your own sanity - GET OUT NOW!!:eek::P
Besides that - is there any possibility - no matter how slight - that it could be increased to 5/5 to match the 5 rep systems that will be in place in season 9?
I've read every post in this thread up to this point. My brain is a little bit mushy, and some off-color bolded caps posts got skimmed, but for the most part I've kept up.
I want to mention once more, all of this should be available to test on Tribble this week. Please play with it, provide further feedback after testing it out, and try to communicate as clearly as possible what you like, what you don't like, and why - the why of it will help us figure out what we can do to address your concerns.
Scrap the idea maybe then I'll test something but for now its made me not even want to do mirror any more much less login. If this goes live I might just be one person but it'll be the end of me playing this game. Unless I know its being scrapped I'm not even going to bother playing anymore its just enough of this grind up stuff just to lose it garbage.
:rolleyes: fine, noted. It's still curious that the only replies are to questions that already have answers.
There are a lot of posts that are just... not constructive. And I don't mean not positive - it's fine to dislike something. But if one is spewing vitriol and logical fallacies, I can't exactly quote it and throw it in the devtracker. My only winning move is not to play.
I think you'll find I've replied to a number of posters who were unhappy with the stated changes or who questioned the changes' abilities to meet our goals. If I didn't reply to a particular poster or set of posters, they were probably being inflammatory and non-constructive.
This is the only meta-post I'm going to write about "why I'm answering the posts I'm answering". If posters ask reasonable, rational questions, I'm happy to reply and do so cordially and constructively, no matter how much they think a decision we made is wrong or how much I may disagree with them. If posters flame, rant, and rave, they'll be ignored - not because I don't care about them (I do), but because quoting or replying to them encourages that sort of destructive, irrational behavior instead of contributing positively to the discussion.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
What are you doing here???!!! For your own sanity - GET OUT NOW!!:eek::P
Besides that - is there any possibility - no matter how slight - that it could be increased to 5/5 to match the 5 rep systems that will be in place in season 9?
I just have a thing for matching units.
it will either be coming to a C-store near you, or possibly the next fleet holding.
I've read every post in this thread up to this point. My brain is a little bit mushy, and some off-color bolded caps posts got skimmed, but for the most part I've kept up.
I want to mention once more, all of this should be available to test on Tribble this week. Please play with it, provide further feedback after testing it out, and try to communicate as clearly as possible what you like, what you don't like, and why - the why of it will help us figure out what we can do to address your concerns.
Well at lest this shows you are reading, thank you. I will test this system but for the now please consider this:
we have ground gear, and space gear, then we have the Rep system that once at level 50 is our new level system with set passive abilities we set and forget. This change is equivalent to removing the passives altogether and replacing it with character bound Rep gear. We have enough different types of gear already. Thank you for reading
While a bit harsh, agreeable. 140 pages of people saying bad idea and the one post answered is about something addressed in the blog already. Shows an utter lack in consideration for the players that stick around longer than a week or two.
He's already answered quite a few of the questions earlier on in this thread. Many of the questions are simply repeats of questions he's answered. And this thread is so large because it's got dozens of duplicate topic threads merged into it. All asking questions already answered.
There are a lot of posts that are just... not constructive. And I don't mean not positive - it's fine to dislike something. But if one is spewing vitriol and logical fallacies, I can't exactly quote it and throw it in the devtracker. My only winning move is not to play.
I think you'll find I've replied to a number of posters who were unhappy with the stated changes or who questioned the changes' abilities to meet our goals. If I didn't reply to a particular poster or set of posters, they were probably being inflammatory and non-constructive.
This is the only meta-post I'm going to write about "why I'm answering the posts I'm answering". If posters ask reasonable, rational questions, I'm happy to reply and do so cordially and constructively, no matter how much they think a decision we made is wrong or how much I may disagree with them. If posters flame, rant, and rave, they'll be ignored - not because I don't care about them (I do), but because quoting or replying to them encourages that sort of destructive, irrational behavior instead of contributing positively to the discussion.
ISnt it wise to see who dont like but isnt irrational and who do...to try to put in perspective if the changes are more accepted or less by the player base?
Sure the caps and "fu cryptic" should never meet the requirements... but such a big change will make many people who never ever post a single critic of any change (as my self) unhappy.
Many find the rep a way to build the character around to be competitive, where lost 60% of it abilities will just be harsh and start from the zero again.
hawk I'm still curious as to what would happen to the playerbases unused reputation respec tokens that they have purchased? will it just be a waste of the players dilithium or zen? or will they get converted in to something else?
Honestly i dont see why new players would be turn off by it.
Cryptic put it as if it sound IMPOSSIBLE to reach t5 on the reps... It isnt, in fact i see it as a good way to keep players playng it.
Add in 10 more reps, and then think about how daunting that would seem. That's the inevitable future of the rep system. And that's what the change is designed to help deal with.
hawk I'm still curious as to what would happen to the playerbases unused reputation respec tokens that they have purchased? will it just be a waste of the players dilithium or zen? or will they get converted in to something else?
They'll get converted into something, probably. Still working out the details, so I don't want to make any promises, but we're planning to honor them.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Add in 10 more reps, and then think about how daunting that would seem. That's the inevitable future of the rep system. And that's what the change is designed to help deal with.
Adding more reps instead of end game content is not a good idea to begin with I'm afraid.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
If posters flame, rant, and rave, they'll be ignored - not because I don't care about them (I do), but because quoting or replying to them encourages that sort of destructive, irrational behavior instead of contributing positively to the discussion.
I hope they pay you well, this seems kind of stressful.
Comments
Yes, they are in addition to, not in place of, your Character Traits.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
That's a relief. Thank you.
How about responding to the other post? They could have made the base for the new system, the current system as to passive skills. Not limiting what people earned.
Cryptic sucks and have no respect for the loyal player base. Additionally, incompetence on a grand scale.
A bold step into the right direction. Kudos!
I'm really curious to see how this will play out in the long run.
To be absolutely honest, I am not really worried of it being a nerf or not. The game is easy enough and not exactly challenging as it is. And I like limits and choices instead of static 'best builds' and pure power creep.
If this change improves balance just a tiny bit, or reduces power creep, or simply increases diversity a little, then it is worth it.
I only hope it doesn't stop there.
As someone else pointed out, most of the power creep comes from (especially powerful) duty officers, ships and consoles.
Unlike the person who insults others based on a kneejerk panic reaction which is neither based on proper information nor careful evaluation.. right?
While a bit harsh, agreeable. 140 pages of people saying bad idea and the one post answered is about something addressed in the blog already. Shows an utter lack in consideration for the players that stick around longer than a week or two.
So just a question if the issue is veteran players beeing overpowered against new players pvp wise wouldnt a ranking system fix that problem without swinging the big old nerf bat ?
And btw as a Veteran player and after all the time put into getting where i am right now i think i deserve to outgunn a novice player at any given time
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/PvP_(effect)
A simpler way to appeal to all parties involved. Guild Wars did power separation well enough. Change passives to work differently or to a lesser extent in PvP. Right now, all my builds depend on a good balance of ALL the rep passives for offense and defense. This change is an unnecessary nerf to MY playstyle. Why should the way I play be changed because of the ineptitude of the developers? If the passives are so OP that they need these changes, why were they allowed to exist as such for the past 2 years? Shouldn't they have been changed earlier so people wouldn't have gotten as pissed as they're getting now?
The amount of misinformation, disinformation, whining, fallacious logic, and outright entitlement in this thread is nauseating. Fortunately, the developers have a much better view of the big picture than the spoiled players posting over and over because their trinkets are getting moved around, and more patience for player foolishness than could be expected of anyone.
OMFG thank you! A ranking system has been asked for countless times over. But logic is a weak point here
Cryptic put it as if it sound IMPOSSIBLE to reach t5 on the reps... It isnt, in fact i see it as a good way to keep players playng it.
Also if a new rep put some powers (on that new system) that is a must, people will have to keep griding the same way... but what is bad is all the old grinds will be useless as the new ones will make the old obsolet with only 4 slots for each.
If its indeed hard for new players to grind the rep (even tho i think it isnt) then make a fleet system so they can spouncer players who have no rep and are on the fleet, or something like that.
Also as some one point out, the real "power creeps" moved on to aux2bat, that rep dont affect too much realy. So wont stop then.
Not to mention two things. One, there will always be a diferent, the guy with T5 shipyard on the fleet, fleet weapons, so on.
Whats next tune down the scimmitar, fleet weapons, set bonus...
Power creeps arent realy that bad (and im not one of then), in fact it can make people keep playng more and more to become one.
Remind me of the old Quake days.
If a good player had a rocket and the best armor, pluss the 200% health you had no chance.
If a bad player had it he would die very quick.
You could lock the game to dont respwn health, armor and weapons and let every one with just a shotgun... the skill players who spend hours on quake world would still dominate...
This wont change nothing, who invest in be the best will always have the edge on something.
I think that would be a smart move, myself.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
140 pages of the same ppl arguing.....
Whatever. Go play pleasant peaches online.
:rolleyes: fine, noted. It's still curious that the only replies are to questions that already have answers.
Situation "normal" for Cryptic then....
I've read every post in this thread up to this point. My brain is a little bit mushy, and some off-color bolded caps posts got skimmed, but for the most part I've kept up.
I want to mention once more, all of this should be available to test on Tribble this week. Please play with it, provide further feedback after testing it out, and try to communicate as clearly as possible what you like, what you don't like, and why - the why of it will help us figure out what we can do to address your concerns.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
I agree with most of this, omitting the: - this to me seems a bit harsh.
But the rest strikes me as spot on.
Partly because we've been selling deliberate power creep for some time now and locking the rest of it away as "rewards" behind one grind after another, just to keep us playing longer and to keep content relevant longer.
It was a bad decision then, and now the rest of the contributory elements continue, as pointed out, because this is and has been business as usual for sometime now.
It somewhat troubling that the first step in the process of fixing the issue, is to take away some of what players have earned. This to me never seems a good idea. Especially as it's true that when you include dilithium into the mix, REAL MONEY gets involved too.
What are you doing here???!!! For your own sanity - GET OUT NOW!!:eek::P
Besides that - is there any possibility - no matter how slight - that it could be increased to 5/5 to match the 5 rep systems that will be in place in season 9?
I just have a thing for matching units.
Scrap the idea maybe then I'll test something but for now its made me not even want to do mirror any more much less login. If this goes live I might just be one person but it'll be the end of me playing this game. Unless I know its being scrapped I'm not even going to bother playing anymore its just enough of this grind up stuff just to lose it garbage.
There are a lot of posts that are just... not constructive. And I don't mean not positive - it's fine to dislike something. But if one is spewing vitriol and logical fallacies, I can't exactly quote it and throw it in the devtracker. My only winning move is not to play.
I think you'll find I've replied to a number of posters who were unhappy with the stated changes or who questioned the changes' abilities to meet our goals. If I didn't reply to a particular poster or set of posters, they were probably being inflammatory and non-constructive.
This is the only meta-post I'm going to write about "why I'm answering the posts I'm answering". If posters ask reasonable, rational questions, I'm happy to reply and do so cordially and constructively, no matter how much they think a decision we made is wrong or how much I may disagree with them. If posters flame, rant, and rave, they'll be ignored - not because I don't care about them (I do), but because quoting or replying to them encourages that sort of destructive, irrational behavior instead of contributing positively to the discussion.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
it will either be coming to a C-store near you, or possibly the next fleet holding.
Well at lest this shows you are reading, thank you. I will test this system but for the now please consider this:
we have ground gear, and space gear, then we have the Rep system that once at level 50 is our new level system with set passive abilities we set and forget. This change is equivalent to removing the passives altogether and replacing it with character bound Rep gear. We have enough different types of gear already. Thank you for reading
He's already answered quite a few of the questions earlier on in this thread. Many of the questions are simply repeats of questions he's answered. And this thread is so large because it's got dozens of duplicate topic threads merged into it. All asking questions already answered.
Sure the caps and "fu cryptic" should never meet the requirements... but such a big change will make many people who never ever post a single critic of any change (as my self) unhappy.
Many find the rep a way to build the character around to be competitive, where lost 60% of it abilities will just be harsh and start from the zero again.
Add in 10 more reps, and then think about how daunting that would seem. That's the inevitable future of the rep system. And that's what the change is designed to help deal with.
They'll get converted into something, probably. Still working out the details, so I don't want to make any promises, but we're planning to honor them.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
Adding more reps instead of end game content is not a good idea to begin with I'm afraid.