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Season 9 Dev Blog #5: Changes to Reputation Powers

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  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    bitfury72 wrote: »
    No matter how it looks though, I feel like I got ripped off. I get the balancing act that is required, but still when you think of the weeks of work per character to get there only to have them removed will always feel like a loss.

    No matter what Cryptic calls it. It's a rip off. Period. Ditto.
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    No matter what Cryptic calls it. It's a rip off. Period. Ditto.

    It was the same thing with the dilithium conversion. Too many people would have had too much dilithium after the conversion, therefore everything converted to dilithium was done so at a fraction of the value. Hours/Days/Months of dailies and exploration missions were wasted by many players as a result. Their rewards from that were simply removed during the conversion.

    But at least those of us who had a certain amount of dilithium ended up getting those veteran bridge officers.

    For this? All of our time and resources dedicated to the rep systems are shrugged off to make the system more appealing to other players who weren't willing to grind the rep systems to begin with.

    I don't think we were ripped off so much as thrown under the bus.

    The rep system was there for an alternate advancement (or sidegrade) system. Cryptic decided too many people had completed the rep systems despite the fact they knew it could not be infinitely scalable, and threw them under the bus because they played the game and sought the lucrative rewards promised to them.

    Players who achieved their goals are being punished to make room for potential new players to achieve the same goals.

    Which is funny, because they aren't willing to do the same with the Fleet Progression system.

    Cryptic is doing this fully knowing the rep system was unpopular, flawed, and that it would TRIBBLE off the people who earned their rewards.

    Every ounce of backlash they're getting is deserved. They knew what they were getting into when they decided to 'fix' the rep system now instead of then.
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  • ninestickyninesticky Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Yet another attempt by the developer team to make this game Un-fun no wonder so many players in my fleet have simply stopped logging in. Way to make the game worse guys. All that work ripped away. First you drive them away with the calendar change and now even if we can get them to come back to play occasionally you make it so they'll be weaker if they do. Moronic simply useless. Only thing I can figure this change is for, is to cannibalize the Star Trek Online player base in the hope you'll drive them into one of your other properties. I guess this game has stopped making a profit since you no longer care about keeping long time players happy.
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    iconians wrote: »
    It was the same thing with the dilithium conversion. Too many people would have had too much dilithium after the conversion, therefore everything converted to dilithium was done so at a fraction of the value. Hours/Days/Months of dailies and exploration missions were wasted by many players as a result. Their rewards from that were simply removed during the conversion.

    But at least those of us who had a certain amount of dilithium ended up getting those veteran bridge officers.

    For this? All of our time and resources dedicated to the rep systems are shrugged off to make the system more appealing to other players who weren't willing to grind the rep systems to begin with.

    I don't think we were ripped off so much as thrown under the bus.

    The rep system was there for an alternate advancement (or sidegrade) system. Cryptic decided too many people had completed the rep systems despite the fact they knew it could not be infinitely scalable, and threw them under the bus because they played the game and sought the lucrative rewards promised to them.

    Players who achieved their goals are being punished to make room for potential new players to achieve the same goals.

    Which is funny, because they aren't willing to do the same with the Fleet Progression system.

    Cryptic is doing this fully knowing the rep system was unpopular, flawed, and that it would TRIBBLE off the people who earned their rewards.

    Every ounce of backlash they're getting is deserved. They knew what they were getting into when they decided to 'fix' the rep system now instead of then.

    I agree. It sounds pretty accurate.
  • smoketh2smoketh2 Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    People seem to think cryptic are actually going to start generating content again after this change?

    Ha, what a joke. It will just be rep system after rep system as it has been for the last year+.

    All this change will mean is that you can only slot a small amount of the new abilities you have unlocked by completing reps. We may occasionally see one new featured episode from them every now and again to try and keep you happy.

    Don't expect to see more reps more often they will still be released at the same old slow rate as before

    I wont argue, the reputation systems sucked all the fun out of the STFs when they took away the gear loot drops. Most people were against the rep system but we still had it forced upon us and when we go ahead and accept it and grind it out to get "our" rewards from doing it we get punished again and told actually you've taken too much from it.

    Lets look at some of Cryptic's track record shall we:

    *Poor conversion of borg gear into marks and BNPs when the Omega rep started.
    *Nerfing of c-store items after people buy them without offering compensation or a refund
    *Nerfing the Romulan embassy boffs crit chance with no offer of a dili or fc refund
    *many other things I can't remember right now...

    and now finally this.

    All they have done here is make themselves even more untrustworthy and for that I am now done with this game and will be taking my money and time elsewhere. You can't trust what they say. You can sure as hell bet that there will be a lock box item or a c-store item that offers more reputation slots regardless of what they say.

    To those in favour of all this I say enjoy whatever future changes this brings, you well and truly deserve them and I don't have to be a part of it.

    To all those who say kthnxbai can I haz your stuff, the answer is no your partly to blame for the state of them game. I shall therefore give my toons a viking funeral.

    BYE!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • shmojoshmojo Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I think Bender can best convey what i think of the upcoming Rep changes.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Take away from the earned elite and give to a whiner.
    Sounds like some of the "earned elite" are the whiners in this thread...
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    System Designer Jeff "AdjudicatorHawk" Hamilton shares some of the new changes to Reputation Powers in this entry of the Season 9 News Dev Blog series.


    Link to the blog.


    I see a lot of aggravated and mad people. I'm not surprise there has not been any response from PWE, Cryptic, or the Moderators. I guess you all don't care. Classic Cryptic.
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    Sounds like some of the "earned elite" are the whiners in this thread...

    No. If they change take place. I will choose the skills to boost my DPS. Then go to Kerrat and blow away every level 50 player who talked about power creep. I think my Ha'feh will hit the 30 to 40k DPS range.

    It's not how I play now. I go to Kerrat to loot and take out a Klingon if attacked. My tactics will completely change.
  • darthstormstrikedarthstormstrike Member Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Problem is with the first bit of news about the changes to the reputation, I was like thinking it was a good change. But I didn't post a "Thank you, Cryptic" post because I had a feeling some bad news would also come. And here it is.
    ___________________

    "There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    Sounds like some of the "earned elite" are the whiners in this thread...

    If I'm whining it's because these changes weren't made early enough. They pretty much said that the rep system was here to stay, despite what anyone said. They lured and encouraged people to participate in the rep systems for the rewards reaped from completion.

    Overpowered or not, this was alternate advancement and it's the equivelant of taking level 70 characters down to level 55 so the fresh level 50's can 'compete' in what is already an insanely easy game.

    If you're going to put in an unpopular rep system, stick to your guns that things weren't likely going to change, tell players to get over it, and try to entice them into completing it for special powers... and then turn around and say you "suddenly" realized you could not stay the course (despite the fact you've stayed the course already and have said you will continue to stay the course), then yes... you are going to have outrage.

    You are going to have whiners complain that they're being thrown under the bus for doing exactly what they had to do to get their rewards, in a system that's one of the most unpopular aspects of the game to begin with.
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  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I see a lot of aggravated and mad people. I'm not surprise there has not been any response from PWE, Cryptic, or the Moderators. I guess you all don't care. Classic Cryptic.

    While today this is true - yesterday Hawk was quite active - but you can only keep up with a Trek rant for so long and stay sane.

    I don't like the changes, but I have come to accept the fact that they won't make any significant changes at this point.

    I am not sure what else Hawk or any other Dev could add at this point in the discussion.

    I will repeat my suggestion : That they increase the rep passives to match the number of reps they have running. So with the Undine rep you would get 5/5. If they add a 6th rep you get 6/6. This would slow down the power creep greatly, but at the same time make starting up a new rep seem worthwhile. 4/4 with 5 rep systems just seems like it is based on the current 4 reps and is a major mental disincentive to participate in the new 5th rep.
  • atlantraatlantra Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I see a lot of aggravated and mad people. I'm not surprise there has not been any response from PWE, Cryptic, or the Moderators. I guess you all don't care. Classic Cryptic.

    Don't worry about it, my wallet is on strike. He won't open anymore towards this game. Our wallets can play the silent treatment game too. Let's see who's more effective... :mad:
    The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    While today this is true - yesterday Hawk was quite active - but you can only keep up with a Trek rant for so long and stay sane.

    I don't like the changes, but I have come to accept the fact that they won't make any significant changes at this point.

    I am not sure what else Hawk or any other Dev could add at this point in the discussion.

    I will repeat my suggestion : That they increase the rep passives to match the number of reps they have running. So with the Undine rep you would get 5/5. If they add a 6th rep you get 6/6. This would slow down the power creep greatly, but at the same time make starting up a new rep seem worthwhile. 4/4 with 5 rep systems just seems like it is based on the current 4 reps and is a major mental disincentive to participate in the new 5th rep.

    I agree with making it match the current rep system and keep it at that level. If the current rep systems is 5. Keep it 5/5. Each additional reputation would not change the 5/5.

    If anything, and it does happen. I'm just going blow away players. Frankly, becoming what Cryptic is trying to prevent.
  • shmojoshmojo Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    atlantra wrote: »
    Don't worry about it, my wallet is on strike. He won't open anymore towards this game. Our wallets can play the silent treatment game too. Let's see who's more effective... :mad:

    If I had known about S9 a few years ago, I would never have A: spent an ungodly amount of time grinding my reps and B: subscribed and then became a lifer. As it stands right now, I'm not going to bother wasting my time with the Undine Rep. It has no items I would want, and the only reason for me to grind it would be to add to my existing passives. Which, as they stand, are getting reduced to 4.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    iconians wrote: »
    If I'm whining it's because these changes weren't made early enough. They pretty much said that the rep system was here to stay, despite what anyone said. They lured and encouraged people to participate in the rep systems for the rewards reaped from completion.

    Overpowered or not, this was alternate advancement and it's the equivelant of taking level 70 characters down to level 55 so the fresh level 50's can 'compete' in what is already an insanely easy game.
    If it's an easy game, why care if you're wiping everything out at level 70 or wiping everything out at 55?
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    If it's an easy game, why care if you're wiping everything out at level 70 or wiping everything out at 55?

    Because I put forth the work, effort, and gameplay time to wipe things out at level 70 instead of level 55. And I don't like having my rewards nerfed (or rationed) for what I'd consider a contract I entered into with the reputation window.

    If my rewards need to be nerfed, then I feel I deserve something to compensate me for my time and effort climbing the reputation ladder. "Better" powers of the ones I have to choose from are not a compensation.
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  • shmojoshmojo Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    iconians wrote: »
    Because I put forth the work, effort, and gameplay time to wipe things out at level 70 instead of level 55. And I don't like having my rewards nerfed (or rationed) for what I'd consider a contract I entered into with the reputation window.

    If my rewards need to be nerfed, then I feel I deserve something to compensate me for my time and effort climbing the reputation ladder. "Better" powers of the ones I have to choose from are not a compensation.

    I, for one, would accept 10k Lobi and 1mil Dilithium. Cryptic is being a real Sith Lord right now.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    iconians wrote: »
    Because I put forth the work, effort, and gameplay time to wipe things out at level 70 instead of level 55. And I don't like having my rewards nerfed (or rationed) for what I'd consider a contract I entered into with the reputation window.
    If it's just your experience you're arguing with, anyone can counter it. For instance, I can live with half my rep powers being unused. Hell, I'm gaining from it, because I can use rep powers I didn't choose before.
    iconians wrote: »
    If my rewards need to be nerfed, then I feel I deserve something to compensate me for my time and effort climbing the reputation ladder. "Better" powers of the ones I have to choose from are not a compensation.
    Compensation? How about updated set bonuses for Romulan/Nukara rep? Or the rep items in general. Not to mention the non-ability rewards you got at tier 5.

    The fact is, we aren't automatically entitled to anything that we do in this game that we directly don't pay for. Especially when we're just playing it constantly for months or years at a time. And before you say it, buying a c-store ship is one thing. Using that c-store ship to get in-game content is another.
  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    atlantra wrote: »
    Don't worry about it, my wallet is on strike. He won't open anymore towards this game. Our wallets can play the silent treatment game too. Let's see who's more effective... :mad:

    I respect your wallet, and I think mine will do that too.


    To all those who say Rep is now easier.

    Erm...... they just reduced the Tier upgrades from 15 mins to 5 seconds. Not a big deal honestly.

    The reputation missions are more expensive earlier, and cheaper in t5. Pretty much the same over all.

    Basically the only meaningful change is the added bonus 30 or so marks for the first mission. And still, to Dyson that's a nerf.


    This new system just saves me from doing the Undine rep 18 times. I'll do it 1 time on my nasuicaan so that he can get that Curiously Predatorlike armor, and look very much like a Swartzenegger target from now on lol.


    To the post above, we dont get refunds for stuff we bought from C-store either. Like that Valdore console. Still no Refund.

    Ehh..... I should not complain, I bought the Valdore because it looks good on a fleet mogai, and not because its console.
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    and you didn't refute the point i made so i win.

    Yes, yes of couse. You win. Congratulations on your victory. I'd send you a Dyson commendation in the in-game mail system if I could. But it'd probably get lost or glitched.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I see a lot of aggravated and mad people. I'm not surprise there has not been any response from PWE, Cryptic, or the Moderators. I guess you all don't care. Classic Cryptic.

    There's been multiple responses by Hawk in this very thread. They're just way back in the beginning of it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    If you had 8 nickels before, and now you have 4 dimes, is that a nerf because you have half as many coins?

    It's a Nerf. Yes.
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    There's been multiple responses by Hawk in this very thread. They're just way back in the beginning of it.

    He hasn't responded since. That means Cryptic is ignoring the player base.
  • mewmaster101mewmaster101 Member Posts: 1,239 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    He hasn't responded since. That means Cryptic is ignoring the player base.

    and this surprises you?

    Also, if 8 nickels to 4 dimes is a nerf to you, i would recommending going back to math class.
  • gofasternowgofasternow Member Posts: 1,390 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    140 pages of whining, threats of never opening wallets and doom. At first this was funny, but now this is just utterly pathetic. The way I see it, this isn't a nerfing, this is just an expansion of the character creation thing, except that Cryptic said we can't be Khan anymore. And it's obvious that the players do, thus the complaints and the "improvements"

    8/8/4 will not help anyone. This will just return the power creep or, even worse, expand it even more. Adding new slots every rep is just as stupid as well as buying new ones.

    Again, it goes live on Tribble tomorrow. Try it there instead of digging in your heels and acting ridiculous.
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    If it's just your experience you're arguing with, anyone can counter it. For instance, I can live with half my rep powers being unused. Hell, I'm gaining from it, because I can use rep powers I didn't choose before.

    Which is perfectly fine. But from my perspective, I climbed the rep ladder for those passives I unlocked. If I do not have access to those passives I originally signed up for, then I feel entitled to a good reason as to why, and appropriate compensation.

    The reasons given as to the 'why' do not satisfy me. And I do not feel like I am being compensated for work already done.
    Compensation? How about updated set bonuses for Romulan/Nukara rep? Or the rep items in general. Not to mention the non-ability rewards you got at tier 5.

    A separate part of the rep system. Improvements to the game (and sets) are expected, it's part of Cryptic's job. Expecting Cryptic to do their job is a poor form of compensation.
    The fact is, we aren't automatically entitled to anything that we do in this game that we directly don't pay for. Especially when we're just playing it constantly for months or years at a time. And before you say it, buying a c-store ship is one thing. Using that c-store ship to get in-game content is another.

    No, we are not automatically entitled to anything. I'm speaking from an entitlement perspective, and it's up to Cryptic whether or not myself and others deserve more ample reparations for this change. To simply make the balance of power regarding reputation powers fair for everyone is a good step -- but it does not acknowledge gametime already devoted.

    I'm also not invoking the c-store or anything like that for my argument. I'm talking the very cut-and-dry principle of a gamer playing a game for an in-game reward. I feel entitled to more, but Cryptic isn't obligated to satisfy that request.

    The dilithium conversion compensated those who lost hours/days/months of playtime with the veteran bridge officer requisition.

    The CXP system rewarded people who had already achieved Ambassador status with a special accolade (Ambassador Emeritus).

    What I'm proposing is not too radically different from either. People who already put their time and in-game money into the rep system should be given a special exclusive to acknowledge their work. That is my opinion.
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  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    and this surprises you?

    Also, if 8 nickels to 4 dimes is a nerf to you, i would recommending going back to math class.

    It's a Nerf for my build. I know it's equal.

    My build depends a lot on the hull and shield buffs from the passive skills. I also use the other weapons buffs for offense.

    If I use the new system, either my passive skills has to be hull/shield or weapons. I lose out no matter what.
  • paspinallpaspinall Member Posts: 296 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    140 pages of whining, threats of never opening wallets and doom. At first this was funny, but now this is just utterly pathetic. The way I see it, this isn't a nerfing, this is just an expansion of the character creation thing, except that Cryptic said we can't be Khan anymore. And it's obvious that the players do, thus the complaints and the "improvements"

    8/8/4 will not help anyone. This will just return the power creep or, even worse, expand it even more. Adding new slots every rep is just as stupid as well as buying new ones.

    Again, it goes live on Tribble tomorrow. Try it there instead of digging in your heels and acting ridiculous.


    8/8/4 cant make it worse given its what we already have so thats an idiotic claim, all they needed to do was stick a limit of 8/8/4 on and not mess around with other stuff
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    140 pages of whining, threats of never opening wallets and doom. At first this was funny, but now this is just utterly pathetic. The way I see it, this isn't a nerfing, this is just an expansion of the character creation thing, except that Cryptic said we can't be Khan anymore. And it's obvious that the players do, thus the complaints and the "improvements"

    8/8/4 will not help anyone. This will just return the power creep or, even worse, expand it even more. Adding new slots every rep is just as stupid as well as buying new ones.

    Again, it goes live on Tribble tomorrow. Try it there instead of digging in your heels and acting ridiculous.

    Yes. 140 pages of whiners and aggravated players. Yes.. IF you can't deal with it, too bad. It's Cryptic who made the announcement. This is the result of it.
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