In nataku's defense, aside from personal prefrence, the Galaxy Refit (which is the "official" designation for the Galaxy X) is indeed not the "iconic" ship when you speak about the Galaxy Class. The "X" has probably not a full minute of screentime in the entire franchise. The iconic design is the ship we saw 7 seasons and a movie on the screens.
That doesn't mean I hate it. I mean yeah, I really dislike the "Galaxy" refit. The Venture refit, however, doesn't look bad. I still prefer the classic though
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
thats a real nice strawman you have there. i never argued that it was seen using its giant hangar bay to full potential in the shows. what i am arguing is that there is no reason it can't do that now, especially when there is plenty of evidence that the federation does use fighter craft (during the dominion war).
Aha, so basically - to hell with the ship millions of Star Trek fans came to love as long as you can get your carrier fetish satisfied. Gotcha'.
my logic here. the federation has and uses fighters. And the federation has a large, highly modular multi mission ship ship with a giant hangar bay 3 decks deep that could easily support said fighters. why not put A on B?
Because they didn't. Why don't the Feds ride space dragons? Why doesn't the Intrepid transform into Optimus Prime?
We're playing a Star Trek game here and we expect the game to at least resemble the show. When you start disregarding and changing iconic canon ships just to satifly the current FOTM you're on a slippery slope that will end up with a landslide.
further, im not saying x ship cant use y ability seen in the show. What i am saying is that there is no reason x ship can't use z ability that was not seen in the show.
Yes, well like I said - let's have the Interpid transform into a big space robot. Wasn't quite seen in the show, but what the heck, right? Doesn't mean it couldn't, they just didn't want to use that ability, right?
You, however, are arguing that nobody can use a galaxy to do anything captain Picard didn't do, because you didn't see him do it. An equivalent argument to your own would be that the Intrepid class cannot use Cannons, because she never did in the show.
I'm not saying a Galaxy can't do what Picard didn't want to do. I'm saying a Galaxy can't do what no Galaxy has been shown to do on screen, regardless of who was in command.
And the Intrepid shoudln't be able to use cannons, but that's a different topic.
Launching a shuttle through a shield is as simple as synchronizing shield frequencies between the two craft. Small craft fly through force fields and shields all the time in star trek, (voyager particularly). (Why didnt they do that in star trek V? shuttles of that era were unshielded.)
It aparently was not as easy as simple as you would want it to be, because whenever someone departed the Enterprise-D on a shuttle, they had to lower the ship's shields. Heck, they need to lower the ship's shields in order to even use the transporters.
lastly, shuttle bay=hangar bay, because servicing small flying craft of the same size, materials, fuel use, and proportions does not magically become impossible just because the small craft are a somewhat different shape and better armed now. further, the only justification for a shuttle bay as wide as the galaxy class' is the simultaneous launch and/or recovery of multiple small craft.
Once again shuttle bay =/= hangar bay. Out of canon, because it's plain stupid in Trek with the shields and other issues - a shuttle bay is not designed in a manner that can support continuous relaunch, simultaneous departures and re-entries of possibly damaged craft and servicing a large amount of hevaly damaged fighter craft during short intervals of time.
My point is - there are 5 iconic Star Trek ships that were on the level of characters in the 5 series. Only 3 of those are availible in the end-game of STO. Those ships should resemble the ships in those shows, the ones the fans came to love. It's just 3 ships, there's not need to turn either of them into an utter joke just to satisfy the FOTM.
You want a carrier or FD battleship? Start a thread about that monstrosity that is the Jupiter, looks more apropriate for that anyway.
The Galaxy-R most definately *SHOULD* have a hangar bay.
And it should be able to launch these out of it (directly from Memory Alpha):
In addition to sensors, Galaxy-class ships were equipped with a variety of probes and scientific devices that could be launched from the torpedo launchers. These included basic scanner probes and reconnaissance probes, class-A probes and probes from class-1 to class-5. (TNG: "Where Silence Has Lease", "Force of Nature", "Ship in a Bottle", "Chain of Command, Part I") The ships were also equipped with a number of space buoys including the basic stationary beacons, warning buoys and emergency buoys. (TNG: "Where Silence Has Lease", "Identity Crisis", "Descent, Part II")
Brings equality to the ships, and is canon.
Yes, I realize they were lauched from torpedo tubes, but losing a weapon slot for a gimmick ability is not going to help matters, it would make them worse. Give them a sci probe pet to launch from a hangar bay, and a uni ensign, and it brings her in line with the Gal-X.
Not that I really care that much. I'm just going to fly my Gal-X. To me it is the same ship, just with some upgrades. I can cope with that. Only reason I didn't before was because saucer separation > a tac console, cloak, DHC, and lance combined... on a ship as slow as the Galaxy. :P
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Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
The Galaxy-R most definately *SHOULD* have a hangar bay.
And it should be able to launch these out of it (directly from Memory Alpha):
Nope, the Galaxy-R most certainly SHOULDN'T have a hangar bay, regardless of how badly some of you may want it.
And "those" you're refering to (had to put it this way cause I know the quote wouldn't show once I quoted you) are canon and ok for the ship to have, but under no circumistance they translate into a hangar bay.
Besides, I'd reckon every modern TNG and post TNG era Starfleet starship carried that type of devices in order to utilize the same technology, so giving that to the Galaxy would only reslut in complaints from the fans of every other Starfleet ship out there. Or should we just slap a hangar on everything and call it a day?
The Galaxy-R most definately *SHOULD* have a hangar bay.
And it should be able to launch these out of it (directly from Memory Alpha):
Brings equality to the ships, and is canon.
Yes, I realize they were lauched from torpedo tubes, but losing a weapon slot for a gimmick ability is not going to help matters, it would make them worse. Give them a sci probe pet to launch from a hangar bay, and a uni ensign, and it brings her in line with the Gal-X.
Not that I really care that much. I'm just going to fly my Gal-X. To me it is the same ship, just with some upgrades. I can cope with that. Only reason I didn't before was because saucer separation > a tac console, cloak, DHC, and lance combined... on a ship as slow as the Galaxy. :P
NO, NO, NO, NO, NO IT SHOULD NOT. The Galaxies shuttle bay IS NOT a HANGAR BAY. those probes are on EVERY fed ship.
Every Starfleet vessel should have those, but in STO there are neither buoys nor probes. What kimmym suggested was to use those canon mechanics to some advantage. No need to yell at her, really.
As far as those stupid hangars go, I go with the Starfleet Command approach: Yes, every ship should have a hangar. Every ship should be able to deploy shuttles. But those shuttles would be useless in direct ship to ship combat. Instead youd have boarding party shuttles, point defense shuttles, decoy shuttles and so on, they look and work like the boarding party mechanic. I'm fine with every ship having the ability to use those, it should just be clear that in combat those small craft don't hold up.
The fighters we have in STO (Peregrine and the Klingon thingy) as well as frigates (Raiders and Escorts) should work as summonable off-map abilities/reinforcements. Mark a target, call a wing of Peregrines and those warp in, fly a strafing run past an enemy and disabling a subsystem or whatever and they warp out again if they are not shot down. Frigates should warp in and would be used via "carrier commands" we have currently in game.
Then call the Gal-X "Command Cruiser" with the ability to call in slotted reinforcements and have all ships be able to launch boarding-party-esque utility shuttles (boarding party, point defense (shuttles target torpedoes and other small craft) and decoy (shuttles with a mounted holoprojector that take the aggro)).
There. Small craft use that would be justified.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Well I would say that but two things changed my mind, well three things.
First, the Vesta Hangar.
Second, the Galaxy-X hangar
Third, This
If the Marauder is "fine" and its pretty much the Galaxy with a Hangar them the Galaxy-R would be better if it had a Hangar and a Uni ensign.
yeah, those first two are BIG mistakes in terms of canons and were an idiotic decision. The third is NOT a combat hangar bay. To even use it, they have to lower the shields.
yeah, those first two are BIG mistakes in terms of canons and were an idiotic decision. The third is NOT a combat hangar bay. To even use it, they have to lower the shields.
The combat hangar thingy is the point. Star Trek doesn't know fighter bays like other franchises use them and frankly nobody in Star Trek needs them. Shuttle hangars are usually placed in a way that shuttles may enter and exit the Starship aft. I presume so the vessel has do take the aft shield grid offline and can maintain forward shielding in case of an emergency shuttle departure or salvage mission. I think that's how Starfleet Command handled shuttles as well (taking the aft shield offline for departure)
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
The ships' main shuttlebay was located on deck twelve. Behind the shuttlebay was a large flight deck, allowing small craft too large for the shuttle bay to land; this area included a large deck lift which lowered into a runabout bay. Ships of the class were equipped with a fleet of both shuttlecraft and runabouts. (ST - Destiny novel: Gods of Night; Star Trek Magazine #156: "Building the Aventine"; ST novel: A Singular Destiny)
I'm not sure if "capability" and "fielding a squadron of combat shuttlecraft" mean the same thing.
As for the Gal-X, by all rights it should not have a hangar bay, and in fact the Gal-R should have one. The Gal-X lost two of its three shuttlebays when the neck support was added.
As for the Gal-R, it's up for debate whether it should have one or not.
On one hand, apocryphally it has capacity, and gameplay-wise the ship would benefit from one hangar bay.
On the other hand, the ship was never seen fielding a squadron of anything (although where the Peregrines came from in all of the Dominion War battle scenes is unknown), and gameplay-wise we have far too many carriers already.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Canonically speaking I think the quote regards photon torpedoes and probes. We never saw a shuttle passing raised deflector shields, but we saw the need to lower the shields to take a shuttle in in Star Trek V. That means canon suggests that shields have to be lowered in order to have shuttles enter or exit a starship. Transporters also require lowered shields, yet STO completely ignores that as well.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Well I would say that but two things changed my mind, well three things.
First, the Vesta Hangar.
Second, the Galaxy-X hangar
Third, This
If the Marauder is "fine" and its pretty much the Galaxy with a Hangar them the Galaxy-R would be better if it had a Hangar and a Uni ensign.
The first one is from a book that can be considered soft/semi-canon as best, a novel which saw the end of the Borg and yet we still have Borg here. Not to mention that neither the Vesta had a conventional hangar bay in the novel, that is entirely Cryptic's invention for the game in order to make the Vesta be the besta.
The second one is even more clear example of Cryptic's lazyness in fixing things in STO. "When in doubt, slap a hangar!" You can't use that as an example or proof of anything.
The third one is not being contested, we all know the Galaxy Class had a huge shuttle bay, which once again doesn't translate as a conventional hangar bay. The Galaxy is the most documented starship in the entire Trek franchise and she never operated in that way.
And the Marauder is fine as much the Galaxy-R is fine. Did you happen to see many of them lately? One, at least? Yeah, there's a reason they gave it away for free.
Actually the Enterprise-D carried Deep Space 9 entire supplement of runabouts and shuttlecraft.
Three runabouts?
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Mind you, I'm not talking about the fleet version but only the retrofits. Though I was mistaken, I assumed the Ambassador retrofit had 2 tac consoles. Still, considering the MU cheyenne is obtainable for a few ECs I'd say it still is better overall than the Ambassador retrofit.
But I'm not talking about number pushing and PvP mind you. That's where you guys loose me on the whole "competition" thing because those are games only played by the numbers and those don't interest me, quite frankly.
its pointless to compare it to the retrofit, that could only be earned during the anniversary event that year, its not something available now like the mirror heavy is. for anyone that has the retrofit, it was even less expensive to get then the mirror heavy!
yeah, those first two are BIG mistakes in terms of canons and were an idiotic decision. The third is NOT a combat hangar bay. To even use it, they have to lower the shields.
The third thing justifies the second thing which then justifies the first thing. No mistakes here. Just a hangar bay that is one of the largest single internal features on the ship that the entire saucer is built around that were not allowed to utilize as we wish because we never saw used it in the shows.
And u don't have to lower shields to launch or recover small craft in the post movie era because tng and post tng small craft are shielded; so its merely a matter of syncing the 2 ships shield frequencies so they pass through eachother. And apparently star fleet can and does that because other fed carriers exist and utilise this capability daily. So can we please, as a community, update our collective knowledge of shuttle limitations?
And even if this limitation was not overcome you could always launch your craft before combat.
Lastly, how is 3 decks of space for small flying craft with a very large launch way and 3 dedicated shuttle elevators not a hangar bay? The design notes even mention a con tower so large it requires 2 lounges. It sound like an aircraft carrier was installed into the ship to me.
Lastly, how is 3 decks of space for small flying craft with a very large launch way and 3 dedicated shuttle elevators not a hangar bay? The design notes even mention a con tower so large it requires 2 lounges. It sound like an aircraft carrier was installed into the ship to me.
For the Galaxy, with all of its families onboard and the school it was running, it could also just be a big classroom where Keiko O'Brien teaches how shuttles work and uses some of them for field trips to anomalies the ship is surveying.
And there has to be storage for maintenance drones and worker bee shuttles to repair a lot of the hull damage that happens when flying through asteroid fileds and tachyon bursts and the like. Not everything can be fixed with mag boots and a hull crawl.
Well, IIRC if you knew the shield frequency, you could calibrate the transporter to bypass it. Needless to say this works best on your own shield. why didn't it happen more in the show? Well, I suppose it'd probably fail catastrophically if you tried it while taking fire....
The third thing justifies the second thing which then justifies the first thing. No mistakes here. Just a hangar bay that is one of the largest single internal features on the ship that the entire saucer is built around that were not allowed to utilize as we wish because we never saw used it in the shows.
Nothing justifies anything here. That's not how the real world works.
We're talking about a sci-fi franchise set in the imaginary future, the only rules that apply are those of the creator and IP holders of said franchise. If those people wanted, they could have said that the Galaxy's big shuttle bay is so big becuase they breed monkeys there. If Gene wanted Starfleet to fight the Klingons with mutated butterflies, we'd be fighting with mutated butterflies here.
The people that called the shots in Trek and TNG clearly never envisioned the Galaxy Class as a ship that carries and utilizes combat craft in her missions. No matter what you or me may want, no matter all the 'logical' extrapolations we may make doesn't change that fact that it is sci-fi, it's imaginary and the only rules that apply are the ones set by the creator and IP holders of Trek.
For the Galaxy, with all of its families onboard and the school it was running, it could also just be a big classroom where Keiko O'Brien teaches how shuttles work and uses some of them for field trips to anomalies the ship is surveying.
And there has to be storage for maintenance drones and worker bee shuttles to repair a lot of the hull damage that happens when flying through asteroid fileds and tachyon bursts and the like. Not everything can be fixed with mag boots and a hull crawl.
It could be a classroom, but doesn't have to be. And the federation stopped putting families on ships before the dominion war started, and never resumed. So no classrooms on these modern galaxys.
Also, hull repair is probably done with the ships transporter systems and replicators operating in tandem. You wouldn't even need to weld, you could just fuze the parts together with the transporter. However, you are correct in that there is plenty of room for many different kinds of small craft, including definatly some repair shuttles.
Well, IIRC if you knew the shield frequency, you could calibrate the transporter to bypass it. Needless to say this works best on your own shield. why didn't it happen more in the show? Well, I suppose it'd probably fail catastrophically if you tried it while taking fire....
It depends where you look. Voyager, like f2pdrakon posted, was a show that didn't give a damn about anything for convenience and as such it is, unfortunately canon.
Hwever, throughout TNG not overwatched by Brannon Braga it wasn't possible. Shield frequency was on a "rotation". Miles O'Brian figured out a way to beam through those "windows" the frequency changed, though. More advanced technology could penetrate shields, however.
Regarding the shuttles, wether they can penetrate shields or not is pure speculation. We only saw on screen that they couldn't, later on the topic never was mentioned again. So we can specualte that they can, but we don't know.
EDIT: Guys, please get over the classrooms, will you? There were a couple of rooms on such a large starship reserved for what, a dozen children. All that "The Galaxy was populated by thousand civilians" is nonsense. The Saratoga had families on board as well, btw. But that's no reason to stop beating the Galaxy, is it?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Nothing justifies anything here. That's not how the real world works.
We're talking about a sci-fi franchise set in the imaginary future, the only rules that apply are those of the creator and IP holders of said franchise. If those people wanted, they could have said that the Galaxy's big shuttle bay is so big becuase they breed monkeys there. If Gene wanted Starfleet to fight the Klingons with mutated butterflies, we'd be fighting with mutated butterflies here.
The people that called the shots in Trek and TNG clearly never envisioned the Galaxy Class as a ship that carries and utilizes combat craft in her missions. No matter what you or me may want, no matter all the 'logical' extrapolations we may make doesn't change that fact that it is sci-fi, it's imaginary and the only rules that apply are the ones set by the creator and IP holders of Trek.
the IP holders and creators of star trek, created and/or approved those blueprints, and that internal configuration. a galaxy class capable of rapid launch and recovery of small craft of any kind is evidently part of gene Roddenberry approved vision and his approved ship designs. the only reason we didn't see it is because new sets are expensive, and so are shots of multiple craft (at least before CGI). so by your own logic, the Galaxy class is a Carrier, because gene and paramount said so when the blueprints with the 3 deck hangar bay were approved by them, and are part of the "Imaginary rules" of this universe. by your own logic, you are being illogical. again.
and even if she got a hangar tomorrow, nobody is forcing you to use it. you can be just like picard and keep your shuttle-roster full of nice and cannon type 8s and never launch them, just like picard did.
as for your logic of if we didn't see it in the shows it doesn't exist no matter how obvious, and your love of reductio ad absurdum, try this on for size.
we never saw them use toilets on the show, so starships do not have toilets, according to gene roddenberrys vision as seen on the shows. maybe they just beam the TRIBBLE out of you? nope, that didn't happen on the show either, so in gene Roddenberry's star trek, nobody poops, and there are no toilets.
the IP holders and creators of star trek, created and/or approved those blueprints, and that internal configuration. a galaxy class capable of rapid launch and recovery of small craft of any kind is evidently part of gene Roddenberry approved vision and his approved ship designs. the only reason we didn't see it is because new sets are expensive, and so are shots of multiple craft (at least before CGI). so by your own logic, the Galaxy class is a Carrier, because gene and paramount said so when the blueprints with the 3 deck hangar bay were approved by them, and are part of the "Imaginary rules" of this universe. by your own logic, you are being illogical. again.
Ah yes, the good ol' "sets are expensive" shtick all carrier fanboys use when they run out of arguments.
Do those blueprints happen to portray how fighters are launched and utilized? How they'll preform? Nope, I didn't think so, cause they're blueprints. The ship doesn't even carry fighter craft, but shuttles.
The IP holders were pretty clear that only things seen on screen with the ST logo can be considered canon and that in case that interferes with some source material, on screen trumps everything else regarding canon. So try again.
and even if she got a hangar tomorrow, nobody is forcing you to use it. you can be just like picard and keep your shuttle-roster full of nice and cannon type 8s and never launch them, just like picard did.
Awww how cute.....another already seen before and already lost argument from the carrier brigade.
How about you take your carrier fantasies away or onto another ship and leave this TNG icon as it's suposed to be?
as for your logic of if we didn't see it in the shows it doesn't exist no matter how obvious, and your love of reductio ad absurdum, try this on for size.
we never saw them use toilets on the show, so starships do not have toilets, according to gene roddenberrys vision as seen on the shows. maybe they just beam the TRIBBLE out of you? nope, that didn't happen on the show either, so in gene Roddenberry's star trek, nobody poops, and there are no toilets.
Oh and look, finally a strawman appeared!
I'll just tell you that I recall seing toilets/bathrooms in ENT and if angrytarg cares to oblige, he can post you the link of a Starfleet ship toilet seat he once posted.
But the sheer fact that you started to compare seing people taking a **** on screen with seing carrier and fighter craft launching sequences only shows how badly out of arguments you are on the topic. Nice strawman though, a little weak and old by now, but whatever.
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That doesn't mean I hate it. I mean yeah, I really dislike the "Galaxy" refit. The Venture refit, however, doesn't look bad. I still prefer the classic though
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Aha, so basically - to hell with the ship millions of Star Trek fans came to love as long as you can get your carrier fetish satisfied. Gotcha'.
Because they didn't. Why don't the Feds ride space dragons? Why doesn't the Intrepid transform into Optimus Prime?
We're playing a Star Trek game here and we expect the game to at least resemble the show. When you start disregarding and changing iconic canon ships just to satifly the current FOTM you're on a slippery slope that will end up with a landslide.
Yes, well like I said - let's have the Interpid transform into a big space robot. Wasn't quite seen in the show, but what the heck, right? Doesn't mean it couldn't, they just didn't want to use that ability, right?
I'm not saying a Galaxy can't do what Picard didn't want to do. I'm saying a Galaxy can't do what no Galaxy has been shown to do on screen, regardless of who was in command.
And the Intrepid shoudln't be able to use cannons, but that's a different topic.
It aparently was not as easy as simple as you would want it to be, because whenever someone departed the Enterprise-D on a shuttle, they had to lower the ship's shields. Heck, they need to lower the ship's shields in order to even use the transporters.
Once again shuttle bay =/= hangar bay. Out of canon, because it's plain stupid in Trek with the shields and other issues - a shuttle bay is not designed in a manner that can support continuous relaunch, simultaneous departures and re-entries of possibly damaged craft and servicing a large amount of hevaly damaged fighter craft during short intervals of time.
My point is - there are 5 iconic Star Trek ships that were on the level of characters in the 5 series. Only 3 of those are availible in the end-game of STO. Those ships should resemble the ships in those shows, the ones the fans came to love. It's just 3 ships, there's not need to turn either of them into an utter joke just to satisfy the FOTM.
You want a carrier or FD battleship? Start a thread about that monstrosity that is the Jupiter, looks more apropriate for that anyway.
And it should be able to launch these out of it (directly from Memory Alpha):
Brings equality to the ships, and is canon.
Yes, I realize they were lauched from torpedo tubes, but losing a weapon slot for a gimmick ability is not going to help matters, it would make them worse. Give them a sci probe pet to launch from a hangar bay, and a uni ensign, and it brings her in line with the Gal-X.
Not that I really care that much. I'm just going to fly my Gal-X. To me it is the same ship, just with some upgrades. I can cope with that. Only reason I didn't before was because saucer separation > a tac console, cloak, DHC, and lance combined... on a ship as slow as the Galaxy. :P
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Nope, the Galaxy-R most certainly SHOULDN'T have a hangar bay, regardless of how badly some of you may want it.
And "those" you're refering to (had to put it this way cause I know the quote wouldn't show once I quoted you) are canon and ok for the ship to have, but under no circumistance they translate into a hangar bay.
Besides, I'd reckon every modern TNG and post TNG era Starfleet starship carried that type of devices in order to utilize the same technology, so giving that to the Galaxy would only reslut in complaints from the fans of every other Starfleet ship out there. Or should we just slap a hangar on everything and call it a day?
NO, NO, NO, NO, NO IT SHOULD NOT. The Galaxies shuttle bay IS NOT a HANGAR BAY. those probes are on EVERY fed ship.
As far as those stupid hangars go, I go with the Starfleet Command approach: Yes, every ship should have a hangar. Every ship should be able to deploy shuttles. But those shuttles would be useless in direct ship to ship combat. Instead youd have boarding party shuttles, point defense shuttles, decoy shuttles and so on, they look and work like the boarding party mechanic. I'm fine with every ship having the ability to use those, it should just be clear that in combat those small craft don't hold up.
The fighters we have in STO (Peregrine and the Klingon thingy) as well as frigates (Raiders and Escorts) should work as summonable off-map abilities/reinforcements. Mark a target, call a wing of Peregrines and those warp in, fly a strafing run past an enemy and disabling a subsystem or whatever and they warp out again if they are not shot down. Frigates should warp in and would be used via "carrier commands" we have currently in game.
Then call the Gal-X "Command Cruiser" with the ability to call in slotted reinforcements and have all ships be able to launch boarding-party-esque utility shuttles (boarding party, point defense (shuttles target torpedoes and other small craft) and decoy (shuttles with a mounted holoprojector that take the aggro)).
There. Small craft use that would be justified.
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yeah, those first two are BIG mistakes in terms of canons and were an idiotic decision. The third is NOT a combat hangar bay. To even use it, they have to lower the shields.
The combat hangar thingy is the point. Star Trek doesn't know fighter bays like other franchises use them and frankly nobody in Star Trek needs them. Shuttle hangars are usually placed in a way that shuttles may enter and exit the Starship aft. I presume so the vessel has do take the aft shield grid offline and can maintain forward shielding in case of an emergency shuttle departure or salvage mission. I think that's how Starfleet Command handled shuttles as well (taking the aft shield offline for departure)
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I'm not sure if "capability" and "fielding a squadron of combat shuttlecraft" mean the same thing.
As for the Gal-X, by all rights it should not have a hangar bay, and in fact the Gal-R should have one. The Gal-X lost two of its three shuttlebays when the neck support was added.
As for the Gal-R, it's up for debate whether it should have one or not.
On one hand, apocryphally it has capacity, and gameplay-wise the ship would benefit from one hangar bay.
On the other hand, the ship was never seen fielding a squadron of anything (although where the Peregrines came from in all of the Dominion War battle scenes is unknown), and gameplay-wise we have far too many carriers already.
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I'll be flying my Gal-X, anyway.
Only reason I flew the Gal-R before was nostalgia and saucer sep, else I would have been content with the Gal-X all along.
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Canonically speaking I think the quote regards photon torpedoes and probes. We never saw a shuttle passing raised deflector shields, but we saw the need to lower the shields to take a shuttle in in Star Trek V. That means canon suggests that shields have to be lowered in order to have shuttles enter or exit a starship. Transporters also require lowered shields, yet STO completely ignores that as well.
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The first one is from a book that can be considered soft/semi-canon as best, a novel which saw the end of the Borg and yet we still have Borg here. Not to mention that neither the Vesta had a conventional hangar bay in the novel, that is entirely Cryptic's invention for the game in order to make the Vesta be the besta.
The second one is even more clear example of Cryptic's lazyness in fixing things in STO. "When in doubt, slap a hangar!" You can't use that as an example or proof of anything.
The third one is not being contested, we all know the Galaxy Class had a huge shuttle bay, which once again doesn't translate as a conventional hangar bay. The Galaxy is the most documented starship in the entire Trek franchise and she never operated in that way.
And the Marauder is fine as much the Galaxy-R is fine. Did you happen to see many of them lately? One, at least? Yeah, there's a reason they gave it away for free.
Three runabouts?
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its pointless to compare it to the retrofit, that could only be earned during the anniversary event that year, its not something available now like the mirror heavy is. for anyone that has the retrofit, it was even less expensive to get then the mirror heavy!
That's 1 less than my Vesta launches.
The third thing justifies the second thing which then justifies the first thing. No mistakes here. Just a hangar bay that is one of the largest single internal features on the ship that the entire saucer is built around that were not allowed to utilize as we wish because we never saw used it in the shows.
And u don't have to lower shields to launch or recover small craft in the post movie era because tng and post tng small craft are shielded; so its merely a matter of syncing the 2 ships shield frequencies so they pass through eachother. And apparently star fleet can and does that because other fed carriers exist and utilise this capability daily. So can we please, as a community, update our collective knowledge of shuttle limitations?
And even if this limitation was not overcome you could always launch your craft before combat.
Lastly, how is 3 decks of space for small flying craft with a very large launch way and 3 dedicated shuttle elevators not a hangar bay? The design notes even mention a con tower so large it requires 2 lounges. It sound like an aircraft carrier was installed into the ship to me.
For the Galaxy, with all of its families onboard and the school it was running, it could also just be a big classroom where Keiko O'Brien teaches how shuttles work and uses some of them for field trips to anomalies the ship is surveying.
And there has to be storage for maintenance drones and worker bee shuttles to repair a lot of the hull damage that happens when flying through asteroid fileds and tachyon bursts and the like. Not everything can be fixed with mag boots and a hull crawl.
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Nothing justifies anything here. That's not how the real world works.
We're talking about a sci-fi franchise set in the imaginary future, the only rules that apply are those of the creator and IP holders of said franchise. If those people wanted, they could have said that the Galaxy's big shuttle bay is so big becuase they breed monkeys there. If Gene wanted Starfleet to fight the Klingons with mutated butterflies, we'd be fighting with mutated butterflies here.
The people that called the shots in Trek and TNG clearly never envisioned the Galaxy Class as a ship that carries and utilizes combat craft in her missions. No matter what you or me may want, no matter all the 'logical' extrapolations we may make doesn't change that fact that it is sci-fi, it's imaginary and the only rules that apply are the ones set by the creator and IP holders of Trek.
It could be a classroom, but doesn't have to be. And the federation stopped putting families on ships before the dominion war started, and never resumed. So no classrooms on these modern galaxys.
Also, hull repair is probably done with the ships transporter systems and replicators operating in tandem. You wouldn't even need to weld, you could just fuze the parts together with the transporter. However, you are correct in that there is plenty of room for many different kinds of small craft, including definatly some repair shuttles.
It depends where you look. Voyager, like f2pdrakon posted, was a show that didn't give a damn about anything for convenience and as such it is, unfortunately canon.
Hwever, throughout TNG not overwatched by Brannon Braga it wasn't possible. Shield frequency was on a "rotation". Miles O'Brian figured out a way to beam through those "windows" the frequency changed, though. More advanced technology could penetrate shields, however.
Regarding the shuttles, wether they can penetrate shields or not is pure speculation. We only saw on screen that they couldn't, later on the topic never was mentioned again. So we can specualte that they can, but we don't know.
EDIT: Guys, please get over the classrooms, will you? There were a couple of rooms on such a large starship reserved for what, a dozen children. All that "The Galaxy was populated by thousand civilians" is nonsense. The Saratoga had families on board as well, btw. But that's no reason to stop beating the Galaxy, is it?
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the IP holders and creators of star trek, created and/or approved those blueprints, and that internal configuration. a galaxy class capable of rapid launch and recovery of small craft of any kind is evidently part of gene Roddenberry approved vision and his approved ship designs. the only reason we didn't see it is because new sets are expensive, and so are shots of multiple craft (at least before CGI). so by your own logic, the Galaxy class is a Carrier, because gene and paramount said so when the blueprints with the 3 deck hangar bay were approved by them, and are part of the "Imaginary rules" of this universe. by your own logic, you are being illogical. again.
and even if she got a hangar tomorrow, nobody is forcing you to use it. you can be just like picard and keep your shuttle-roster full of nice and cannon type 8s and never launch them, just like picard did.
as for your logic of if we didn't see it in the shows it doesn't exist no matter how obvious, and your love of reductio ad absurdum, try this on for size.
we never saw them use toilets on the show, so starships do not have toilets, according to gene roddenberrys vision as seen on the shows. maybe they just beam the TRIBBLE out of you? nope, that didn't happen on the show either, so in gene Roddenberry's star trek, nobody poops, and there are no toilets.
Ah yes, the good ol' "sets are expensive" shtick all carrier fanboys use when they run out of arguments.
Do those blueprints happen to portray how fighters are launched and utilized? How they'll preform? Nope, I didn't think so, cause they're blueprints. The ship doesn't even carry fighter craft, but shuttles.
The IP holders were pretty clear that only things seen on screen with the ST logo can be considered canon and that in case that interferes with some source material, on screen trumps everything else regarding canon. So try again.
Awww how cute.....another already seen before and already lost argument from the carrier brigade.
How about you take your carrier fantasies away or onto another ship and leave this TNG icon as it's suposed to be?
Oh and look, finally a strawman appeared!
I'll just tell you that I recall seing toilets/bathrooms in ENT and if angrytarg cares to oblige, he can post you the link of a Starfleet ship toilet seat he once posted.
But the sheer fact that you started to compare seing people taking a **** on screen with seing carrier and fighter craft launching sequences only shows how badly out of arguments you are on the topic. Nice strawman though, a little weak and old by now, but whatever.