I wouldnt fly anything else other than a galaxy if it was competitive with the best cruisers in the game
perhaps a lot of other players would be the same
perhaps thats why it is the worst cruiser in the game
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
The saucer separation mechanic was finally bought in-line with that of the Odyssey. Combined with the shared cooldown on team abilities being removed, the Galaxy "R" did indeed get an update. Just not the top to bottom overhaul (game wise) that some of you wanted.
While I very much wellcome the ability to separate the saucer in the go and it's more in line with canon, this was not the burden of the Galaxy-R.
The changes on the "team abilites" were not an update for the Galaxy, they were an update for every single ship in STO. Yes, it makes the 3-rd ens.engineer somewhat more viable. But guess what? That change alone just made the Excelsior about 100 times better than it made the Galaxy. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about, my Excel is ridiculously better after this change.
So, I'm going to point out that continued griping and "asking" for a total revamp, is more or less beating the proverbial dead horse. Much in the same manner, I must point out, that some of the very ones in this thread accuse T5 Constitution supporters of doing.
Honestly, I do realize that we're probably beating a dead horse. At least as long as Geko's in charge. That is what I think.
We're not neccessarily asking for a "total revamp" whatever it means, most of us would just want the ship to be somewhat viable. Heck, I'd be happy if she wasn't the worst cruiser in game, the fact that she is - is insulting to the fans and to the franchise. And we'll probably keep beating that horse even if it's dead until some changes happen or until STO shuts down leaving this thread as a sad reminder of how terribad the developer treated one of the franchise's most iconinc representations.
They could have implemented the Dyson "trick" for the Galaxy upon separation. But God forbid they make something good for the Galaxy and make it a decent ship.
And as I said in another thread - don't overgeneralize about the Connie thing. Actions of an individual are not the actions of a group. Here in this thread we have people that absolutely loathe the idea of a T5 Connie and we have people like me that don't understand this stance given everything that's happening in STO and always gladly support that particular idea.
The developers listened. And they took action. It's just not what some of you have wanted. And I don't expect them to do much else to the in-game Galaxy, if anything at all.
Yes they listened. :rolleyes:
If by listening you mean sticking the fingers in their ears and going "LALALALALALALALALALALA".
We're not actually wasting much energy. We're just pointing out the misspresentation and injustice that is happening towards a single ship that by itself is one of the most iconic representations of the IP. We happen to be passionate about this and are simply expressing our dissent.
And playing the damned game is getting more and more lackluster when you see them sticking a big FU sign to the most iconic ships like the Galaxy or the Connie for that matter, while aparently gutted and lobotomized OP Undine ships are a go.
The devs probably want 5 Eng console slots to function equally to 5 Tac slots.
I think this is a very good point. The Defiant, Intrepid, and Galaxy were probably first designed to be the extreme Tactical, extreme Science, and extreme Engineering representation of the escort, research, and cruiser categories respectively. So I think what would be best is if Cryptic figures out a way to make a ship with 5 Engineering consoles be as effective as 5 Science consoles be as effective as 5 Tactical consoles.
Or at least, in my opinion.
Member since November 2009... I think. (UFP) Ragnar
Tac consoles stack. Non compounding but they do. So do certain science consoles. But most engineering consoles such as armor have diminishing returns or really not worth a console slot.
Didn't always used to be that way. There was a time when you got + 7 power from 1 console to a subsystem. People used to be happy stacking those. But then they got hit by the nerf bat to the face. So there's only a few types of pure engineering consoles worth using while tac and consoles have only become more potent .
Also theres no content for a pure tank to sit and absorb damage while completing the task... Most of those require you to be out of combat to scan whatever it is. Which means you have to kill your nearby target, the faster the better. Something the Galaxy falls way behind in compared to..... Well anything!
Its time to rename my Galaxy...... USS BEEF SUPREME
Of course, then you run into the bizarre fact that the Fleet Intrepid received a 3rd Tac console instead of a 5th Sci console. Funny, the Galaxy's actually the odd one out of the three in that it didn't get a tac console on it's fleet version.
Why does the old Gal have to be so Eng focused, again?
Not disputing what you're saying about 5 console ships being equally effective, though.
I just caught this, and without reading all 650 pages going back to January of last year, I'd point out that they are trying to be *somewhat* canon with Star Trek despite how far they stretch things.
In the overall scheme of things the "Galaxy Class" ship is pretty weak, it's not really optimized for combat, and in several comparisons it's been made abundantly clear it's not War Ship. This is why ships like this did so poorly (comparitivly speaking) during The Dominion War when fighting actual warships, with ships like "The Defiant" being such a big deal because they were dedicated Warships, which were an anathema to The Federation and it's attitudes. The "Galaxy Class" did okay when it was facing opponents that were not optimized, or had a lower level of technology, but to be blunt "The Enterprise" had a tendency to get slapped around constantly. I mean the cases where it got it's butt kicked/power drained/damaged vastly outweigh the cases where it really kicked butt. For the most part 90% of the show was about finding ways that didn't rely on it's power or prowess to succeed and survive. In the cases where it did fight successfully for a while in many cases it was using dirty tricks againt overconfident opponents (like The Borg).
As a general rule a ship like this was sent around on diplomatic missions, to show the flag, and to be versatile and comfortable enough for prolonged exploration missions. Indeed the ship class was so anti-warship in it's design that it had crewmembers families on board. Many people have pointed out how dumb that would be for a warship (nobody wants to take their family in to be shot at when your looking for fights), but the point is it wasn't a Warship.
In the scope of STO "Tactical" seems to refer to components specifically designed to be used in battle, and given the intent of The Galaxy it logically wouldn't have many. It's also not a dedicated science vessel either. One thing it does however display in the series is brute durability and the ability to survive a pounding from other ships or space anamolies. That is Engineering in a nutshell as far as STO is concerned.
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It should also be noted that Star Trek has largely been about drama and exploration, the really exciting action bits happen but are comparatively rare. Despite this The Federation has managed to start a bunch of different wars, and as of where we left off The Federation was beginning to more more onto a wartime footing. As it takes place in the future, STO could be seen as a sort of ongoing protracted "action scene" as The Federation and other Alpha Quadrant races deal with the mess of violence and warfare that the TV series left off and never covered largely for budget reasons. In STO we've got multiple races (Tholians, Borg, Cardiassian/Dominion hold outs, Imperial Romulans, Undine, and of coure Iconians) wanting to level The Federation, while there is a massive tension with the KDF that periodically erupts into fighting despite numerous common enemies. Later ships have been developed with more of a combat focus (despite other functions) being a product of their time, and given this huge, multi-front war it also sort of explains some of the odder "non-canon ships", as persumbly The Federation modifying and throwing out every hull it can beg, borrow, steal, or salvage given the sheer number of enemies and constant warfare.
In this kind of environment, The Galaxy, a ship largely intended to show the flag during peacetime, would be kind of second rate. Even when doing mods (like the Galaxy X Dreadnaught) there is only so much kit bashing your going to be able to do to an existing ship.... and honestly, Cryptic did expand The Galaxy class a bit more recently due to popular demand, making it a bit tougher than it should be.
That said CBS/Paramount/Viacom will likely never acknowledge STO for obvious reasons, but it would be amusing if in doing another series they had The Federation recovering from a massive war and referencing the "dark age" that had just passed. On some respects STO does seem pretty accurate to what an empire might do in time of war, installing partially understood technologies from tons of alien races and stuff into everything, etc... and in a more dramatic sense it has some story potential. It would be kind of cool to see a sort of in-character reaction to say finding an old Voth ship on picket duty that had been partially borgified, armed with undine weapons, and tons of other scavenged technologies defending some federation colony world, a silent testament to desperation ... and overwhelming firepower (That's totally insane... they thankfully don't make them like that anymore...)
The point is this is not TNG, and honestly it would be kind of boring if it was. Almost every encounter would involve "some malevolent alien has disabled your ship" followed by selecting text options to hope Jean-Luc can find some way of brownnosing his way out of it. Either that or listenng to your BOFFS ramble about personal problems for 45 minutes before being allowed to hit the "Techno-Babble" button causing Geordi or Data to mention some particle (with a name created by slamming their head into a keyboard a few times) has the miraculous power to save everything... and does... "Amazing sir, the Bgfqfgqafgq particle infusion has allowed us to break free and escape....". I kid, I kid... I love Star Trek (obviously) but that could be kind of boring.
Okay, as I understand it... you consider Engineering to be more or less the "defensive" portion of a ship(if I'm interpreting the implications of the sentences "im against engineering and science being tactical #2 and tactical #3. they serve thier own perposes" correctly), and since you dislike the idea of the Galaxy being a super tank, you want it to be less eng-heavy. Okay, I'm understanding your position a little better.
Though I don't accept the idea that engineering should be purely defensive. If something makes sense in the context of the fictional universe it's applied to, and it helps gameplay, I don't have a problem with it. Star Trek's engineers have done some crazy things before, from rigging torpedoes to devastate their targets to creating holographic assassins. The engineering specialty has a far greater potential IMHO than the state it is in now. Whether the dev team is creative enough to push that potential to its limits is another topic though.
eng is not at all purely defensive. its 'real', wile tac and sic skills are just magic. EPtW is a great flat damage buff, it does this in a real engineering fashion. DEM adds shield bypassing damage to shots, in a tech trek way, modulating weapon frequencies. EWP is a dump of drive plasma, another staple of 'real' trek tech. tac skills, they just magically make your weapons act different or do more damage. most sic skills are literally your deflector casting magic spells.
a new eng skill imo needs to keep with that trend, and not just be something magic like tac or sci.
It may be true that more balanced ships would benefit more from some new eng powers, but the Galaxy line does have features that most other ships do not. Saucer sep comes to mind, though the Odyssey(a less eng-focused Cruiser) also features that.
very minor at best bonus that is. its not a DHC using ship, so the bonus turn in exchange for hit points isn't going to to be terribly worth wile. and you only get a +10 turn rate, that doesn't make your base turn rate 16, it ads a flat amount of turn. so, turn consoles still math against the base 6, and ships that have 8 or better turn rate with a few turn consoles end up easily out turning a seped galaxy.
Yeah, I agree that the three specialties should be distinct enough. But they should also be equal, as they are presented in-game as equal.
The +power consoles do need to be rethought. I can't imagine why the devs thought they needed a nerf in the first place. But it might be a good start to re-imagining eng consoles. Also, maybe add Tac consoles that could benefit tactically weaker ships more. Though my area of understanding stops when delving into the fine mechanics such as damage-calculation formulas, so I'm not sure straight damage bonuses on Cruisers would perform all that much better than percentage bonuses on tac ships like Escorts or Raptors.
For what it's worth, I think your ideas would be fine if tac, eng, and sci weren't presented equally in-game(as in, equal console space within the overall ship selection, equal skill values in BOFF abilities, etc). If say for instance only tactical consoles existed and eng/sci were featured in totally different game elements instead, then I wouldn't have much issue about this. As the game is now, I don't think changing ship setups are the way to go.
well the fact that they are presented as equals at all and that they are all as equally important is just evidence that this is a pvp game, with nothing but pve TRIBBLE onto it's pvp balance. because in pvp, these things are pretty close to equal, are all needed for a successful team. if your unhappy about the way ships other then tactical heavy are of inferior use, your playing the wrong content. pve unless it was fundamentally different can't cater to your ship type. only if npcs were as close to being the same as player ships as possible would a sic captains skills be of use in pve. its only since my 2 AtB build style became main stream did tac cruisers become equals to escorts in pve, and in some ways surpass them. cryptic knows that there are possibly a majority of its players want cruisers to be as good as escorts in pve, and thanks to their short sightedness the 2 AtB build became possible and answered this players prayers. no mater how imbalanced it might be, its never going away, its a successful ligit hack of their systems that makes a majority of the players happier it exists. sci ships are always gonna have a harder time, but most of the recent sci ships can use DHCs, so theres that at least.
above all pve concerns, the pvp balance must be preserved. because pvp can't work with out it, wile you can do any pve by picking a random ship, and literally filling every item and station slot with something random. case in point, all those missions were you fly a ship other then your own for a part of it, holy TRIBBLE those builds are terrible, if not purposefully the worst possible.
I'm sure part of the reasons with the Galaxy being so poor is in part to the ships popularity. No other ship other than a Connie brings about more forum discussion and rage than this ship.
Personally if the Galaxy had the same setup as a D'kora, Tor'Khat, Excelsior, Regent or Galor whether i was Sci,Tact or Engineering i wouldn't be flying anything else other than a Galaxy and maybe this is Cryptics concern.
Selling ships is a big part of funding this game hence the biggest reward in a lockbox is a ship. There will always be people that prefer different designs but i'd imagine having a well balanced Galaxy on par stats wise with the Excelsior would see a drop in ship sales as everyone who wants to fly a competitive Enterprise D can.
Originally they put the ship in a tier 4 so it wasn't a end game ship it was only due to player feedback it got a tier 5 version. So just from that point, its evident to me Cryptic don't want to see the Galaxy dominating end game content.
However until someone at Cryptic Studios explains the true reasoning behind the lack or changes in the recent Galaxy Reboot where the Galaxy got no real love, when the current game mechanics don't require an all out tank, i guess we can only have our own options and speculate.
True tanking died in PvE content the moment it became time gated as pulling aggro and not being able to kill anything whilst the clock ticks down results in failure.
the galaxy might be my favorite ship, but even if it was good it would never replace every other ship and play style for me. fat slow beam boats are only a fraction of the fun to be had, that alone would get old fast. id never lose interest in everything else, and i don't think anyone else would ether.
therse's a good chance the sovereign is more popular then the galaxy among players, and you don't see them just using the repackaged and excellent regent now do you. how many sovereign lovers are opting to use the avenger or something else entirely? i just don't think this line of reasoning has any merit, i recall them even being disappointed in the initial sales of the regent after they made it even.
the amount of posting about the galaxy is directly proportional to how bad it is, in contrast to how good it should be. on all the other popular ships in game, you don't hear much talking about them because they are already fine, or more then fine as is. doing less then the bare minimum, granting it the universal ENS the fleet neghvar and fleet dread got would shut down this thread and future galaxy complaint almost entirely. it deserves more, but hey, it wouldn't be flying with an arm tied behind your back to use it if it was thrown that scrap.
In the overall scheme of things the "Galaxy Class" ship is pretty weak, it's not really optimized for combat, and in several comparisons it's been made abundantly clear it's not War Ship. This is why ships like this did so poorly (comparitivly speaking) during The Dominion War when fighting actual warships, with ships like "The Defiant" being such a big deal because they were dedicated Warships, which were an anathema to The Federation and it's attitudes. The "Galaxy Class" did okay when it was facing opponents that were not optimized, or had a lower level of technology, but to be blunt "The Enterprise" had a tendency to get slapped around constantly. I mean the cases where it got it's butt kicked/power drained/damaged vastly outweigh the cases where it really kicked butt. For the most part 90% of the show was about finding ways that didn't rely on it's power or prowess to succeed and survive. In the cases where it did fight successfully for a while in many cases it was using dirty tricks againt overconfident opponents (like The Borg).
this is dead wrong, but unfortunately its what the majority AND those that stat ships at cryptic seem to believe. probably the biggest reason this thread is so long is the analysis of the ship's performance and firepower in the canon, showing that its actually the most powerful federation ship in the entire canon. but even if this couldn't be proven, the canon performance bias applied to how the galaxy R is stated is a gross discrimination, compared to the free pass all the other canon ships in game get.
even if this were true, you can't reason that the excelsior and ambassador class aren't worse in every single way then a galaxy. or that all the ships that proved inferior to the galaxy, like the galor, have any business being one of the better cruisers, and better then the galaxy in every way in game.
the skill torp spread? that skill would have no inspiration to exist if it wasn't for the enterprise D firing 10+ torps bursts all at once. no other canon ship manages a bust larger then 4 per launcher. no other ship has main phaser arrays half as long, with as many emitters linked together having an additive effect to each shots potential firepower. the enterprise D, per shot, dissolved more volume of that first borg cube they encountered then the enterprise had volume her self! no ship, not even the enterprise E in nemesis, put down a volume of fire like this here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_XbWq49vUM by the way, every time the enterprise D got jobbed super hard in the show, if it had just defended it self this well the fights would have been over in seconds. only against impossibly strong targets like a cube of this imaginary husnock warship is the D ever allowed to fright to its potential. because even if it does this doesn't jeprodize the progression of the underdog story the writers are only able to come up with in tng. stories more appropriate for an actual underdog that comes later, voyager.
the galaxy class was also one of the more modular ships classes ever, the way the enterprise was set up was just one possible configuration style, you see alternate universe versions that are much different on the inside, but the same on the outside, like in yesterday's enterprise. thats the galaxy set up to be a war time battleship, and not a gilder flagship, the flying federation ideal made manifest, that yes was clearly not a ship on a war footing. during captain jelico's short period of command, he was able to modify what he had to work with so it would be adequately battle ready if need be. during the dominion war, galaxy class were mass produced, an odd choice if it was just a huge toothless cruise ship. its the only way to explain how you can see more then 10 in every fleet shot. these were not fully loaded enterprise D spec galaxies, most of that modular interior was left blank, they are just a huge flying weapons platform with those highest burst torp launchers and highest per shot phaser firepower arrays. these were the backbone of the fleets, and they were battleships. during operation return, you actually see them flying the wrong direction, as if they blasted their way through the fleet, and began flanking the dominion forces to ease the passage of more federation ships.
the odyssey may have failed to shoot down 2 bug ships, but it hull tanks their assault for ~10 whole minutes, and then moved to disengage under its own power. such a large ship has incredible damage soak, such weak weapons were all but incapable of ever actually destroying the odyssey. thanks to all the shape shifter founder spying by that point, the attack ships had their weapons and shield tuned to be unblockable and impenetrable, the fight could have gone no other way, no mater what class the odyssey was. it was similar to the fight in generations. for all the hits they took, the ship was not significantly damaged. that last torpedo just somehow triggered a containment failure.
thats the just of the galaxy class's pedigree, or at least all i feel like writing about. if the ships stats should be judged by its canon performance, then by all means do so.
While I agree the Galaxy is underpowerd I just do not get some people with the claim of "I want my galaxy and nothing else! I want to be like the Enterprise D!"
Why? I mean good god, there are so many ships to try. Granted the Gal can be your go to ship but jesuse go fly something else once in a while.
Like me for my main character my main goto ship is my Avenger. But I got a ton of ships now. Tier 5 intrepid, Vesta, Odyssey, Gal-X, Gal-R, Regent, Excelsior, Dyson destroyer, Obilesk carrier.
And I try to fly all of them. Come on guys, there is more than one ship to own and fly. Go try them all!
Have your fav ship, but go catch them all!
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Oh boy, you really shoud've read the thread. Not being that insane to read through 650 pages is perfectly understandable, but still....you would have seen numerous evidence extracted from the shows which point that your conclusions on the Galaxy and her beeing "meak" are very wrong and the Galaxy is actually one of the most potent Federation starships in canon.
Yes, TNG relied heavily on other methods for establishing dramatic effects - and that is quite understandable, I mean how interesting would a show about an OP ship that blows everything to smitherines be? This however has nothing to do with the power of the ship.
During DS9, the Galaxies were the heart of the Federation's fleets. The Defiant is a small ship. Yes, it has potent weaponry for her size, but they were meant to operate in swarms against the Borg, not as a single unit. 1 on 1, a Galaxy would splash a Defiant like you splash a mosquito against the wall.
the galaxy might be my favorite ship, but even if it was good it would never replace every other ship and play style for me. fat slow beam boats are only a fraction of the fun to be had, that alone would get old fast. id never lose interest in everything else, and i don't think anyone else would ether.
^^ THIS!!
Exactly what I have been saying for a long time. The entire argument that the Galaxy is being held down on purpose, because if it's any good noone would buy any other ship is pure BS.
And if there really is someone at Cryptic that could actually think this as well, they need to have their head examined.
I have 15 chars. I don't use the same ship on neither of those. 8 of them are KDF FFS. I own every Federation cruiser, plus some other ships. I still use the Galaxy-R on my main anyway, even with how lackluster she currently is in the grand scheme of things. That didn't stop me from buying other ships. You wanna' know what could stop me and probably has? The treatment the one of the iconic ships of ST is getting here.
While I agree the Galaxy is underpowerd I just do not get some people with the claim of "I want my galaxy and nothing else! I want to be like the Enterprise D!"
Why? I mean good god, there are so many ships to try. Granted the Gal can be your go to ship but jesuse go fly something else once in a while.
Like me for my main character my main goto ship is my Avenger. But I got a ton of ships now. Tier 5 intrepid, Vesta, Odyssey, Gal-X, Gal-R, Regent, Excelsior, Dyson destroyer, Obilesk carrier.
And I try to fly all of them. Come on guys, there is more than one ship to own and fly. Go try them all!
Have your fav ship, but go catch them all!
I don't quite get your point here. Like I mentioned before, I own a ton of T5 ships. I play most of them (except the ones I'm experiencing byers rumorse with) across my 15 chars.
What does this have to do with me wanting the iconinc Galaxy Class, the legendary Enterprise-D to be more usefull and better represented in the game?
Oh boy, you really shoud've read the thread. Not being that insane to read through 650 pages is perfectly understandable, but still....you would have seen numerous evidence extracted from the shows which point that your conclusions on the Galaxy and her beeing "meak" are very wrong and the Galaxy is actually one of the most potent Federation starships in canon.
Yes, TNG relied heavily on other methods for establishing dramatic effects - and that is quite understandable, I mean how interesting would a show about an OP ship that blows everything to smitherines be? This however has nothing to do with the power of the ship.
During DS9, the Galaxies were the heart of the Federation's fleets. The Defiant is a small ship. Yes, it has potent weaponry for her size, but they were meant to operate in swarms against the Borg, not as a single unit. 1 on 1, a Galaxy would splash a Defiant like you splash a mosquito against the wall.
^^ THIS!!
Exactly what I have been saying for a long time. The entire argument that the Galaxy is being held down on purpose, because if it's any good noone would buy any other ship is pure BS.
And if there really is someone at Cryptic that could actually think this as well, they need to have their head examined.
I have 15 chars. I don't use the same ship on neither of those. 8 of them are KDF FFS. I own every Federation cruiser, plus some other ships. I still use the Galaxy-R on my main anyway, even with how lackluster she currently is in the grand scheme of things. That didn't stop me from buying other ships. You wanna' know what could stop me and probably has? The treatment the one of the iconic ships of ST is getting here.
I don't quite get your point here. Like I mentioned before, I own a ton of T5 ships. I play most of them (except the ones I'm experiencing byers rumorse with) across my 15 chars.
What does this have to do with me wanting the iconinc Galaxy Class, the legendary Enterprise-D to be more usefull and better represented in the game?
It was more towards those who stated "I only want to fly my Galaxy and nothing else!" Saw a few of those remarks. That's just sad to me. Hey I have plenty of tier 5 ships across 7 characters and I love playing them all. Hell zipping around in my breen raider with my Romulan tac officer is fun at times, or locking and loading with my fed sci in my vesta.
Working on my last charcer which is a fed engineering and I plan to have 4 end ships. Excelsior, Gal-R, Gal-X and Regent. Plan to have them all set up different ways for different missions.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
It was more towards those who stated "I only want to fly my Galaxy and nothing else!" Saw a few of those remarks. That's just sad to me. Hey I have plenty of tier 5 ships across 7 characters and I love playing them all. Hell zipping around in my breen raider with my Romulan tac officer is fun at times, or locking and loading with my fed sci in my vesta.
Working on my last charcer which is a fed engineering and I plan to have 4 end ships. Excelsior, Gal-R, Gal-X and Regent. Plan to have them all set up different ways for different missions.
Yeah, the reason I've came to this rather high number of chars (ok, I know that it might not be high for some, but it is for me :P) is because I wanted to try out different ships and I usually keep a char in a designated ship.
But if someone has a dream of flying only a Galaxy Class or any other ship for that matter - more power to them, as long as that's what makes them happy and enjoy their time in STO.
Yeah, the reason I've came to this rather high number of chars (ok, I know that it might not be high for some, but it is for me :P) is because I wanted to try out different ships and I usually keep a char in a designated ship.
But if someone has a dream of flying only a Galaxy Class or any other ship for that matter - more power to them, as long as that's what makes them happy and enjoy their time in STO.
True, but many I've seen want the galaxy basically to roflstomp anything it comes across while being their one main ship. That I do not agree with. Granted I will agree it could use a leg up considering it's one of the weaker ships around, but it should be buffed so it can basically stomp anything it sees and tries not to get any on the hull while it does it.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
ofcourse they are! they are selling like hotcakes, gotta make them more appealing. Hell I even broke down and bought one for my sci fed.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
True, but many I've seen want the galaxy basically to roflstomp anything it comes across while being their one main ship. That I do not agree with. Granted I will agree it could use a leg up considering it's one of the weaker ships around, but it should be buffed so it can basically stomp anything it sees and tries not to get any on the hull while it does it.
is there anyone that actually thinks that? i don't think so. we may bring up what a beast it was in canon, but that's just to prove it shouldn't suck in game, not that it should be the scimitar mk2
ofcourse they are! they are selling like hotcakes, gotta make them more appealing. Hell I even broke down and bought one for my sci fed.
I own the entire pack, but I really fail to see the logic in buffing the best science ship, that much more if they're already selling like hotcakes as you say. Not that I mind to have my ship buffed.
But what's the point of making a great ship that is already sellnig well more appealing, rather than others that are not doing so well?
I would be already happy with they would give her an Ensign Universal, but the big problem is that ship was build for a game with the holy trinity in place but we don't have her in this game.
the galaxy class was also one of the more modular ships classes ever, the way the enterprise was set up was just one possible configuration style, you see alternate universe versions that are much different on the inside, but the same on the outside, like in yesterday's enterprise. thats the galaxy set up to be a war time battleship, and not a gilder flagship, the flying federation ideal made manifest, that yes was clearly not a ship on a war footing. during captain jelico's short period of command, he was able to modify what he had to work with so it would be adequately battle ready if need be. during the dominion war, galaxy class were mass produced, an odd choice if it was just a huge toothless cruise ship. its the only way to explain how you can see more then 10 in every fleet shot. these were not fully loaded enterprise D spec galaxies, most of that modular interior was left blank, they are just a huge flying weapons platform with those highest burst torp launchers and highest per shot phaser firepower arrays. these were the backbone of the fleets, and they were battleships. during operation return, you actually see them flying the wrong direction, as if they blasted their way through the fleet, and began flanking the dominion forces to ease the passage of more federation ships.
Actually Dominion war Galaxy classes didn't have blank modular pods - a war standing Galaxy class is one of the best troop transports known. In Yesterday's Enterprise, Yar tells Castillo that the Enterprise carries over six thousand troops and their equipment. So those 'ten Galaxy classes' with no civilians are carting a hell of a lot of soldiers into the field.
is there anyone that actually thinks that? i don't think so. we may bring up what a beast it was in canon, but that's just to prove it shouldn't suck in game, not that it should be the scimitar mk2
Actually the enterprise was basically made Mary Sue to survive engagements or guess what the show ends.
Watch the dominion war and watch Galaxies get ripped to pieces like parchment. Granted they are weak, but they are not beasts. For heavens sake hey are not even otpimized for combat as they have FAMILIES aboard.
Sorry galaxy really isn't that much of a beast.
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Actually Dominion war Galaxy classes didn't have blank modular pods - a war standing Galaxy class is one of the best troop transports known. In Yesterday's Enterprise, Yar tells Castillo that the Enterprise carries over six thousand troops and their equipment. So those 'ten Galaxy classes' with no civilians are carting a hell of a lot of soldiers into the field.
.... We're weaponized troop ships? :eek:
Member since November 2009... I think. (UFP) Ragnar
Pretty heavily weaponized troop ships, but troop ships to be sure. No other Starfleet ship outside the Odyssey could drag that many troops in and be expected to fight their way in, survive, and get out in one piece.
Watch the dominion war and watch Galaxies get ripped to pieces like parchment. Granted they are weak, but they are not beasts. For heavens sake hey are not even otpimized for combat as they have FAMILIES aboard.
Um, no, those were Mirandas and Excelsiors getting torn to shreds. The Odyssey notwithstanding, the Galaxies tended to weather the storm and pay it back with interest. And they stopped carrying families aboard, too.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Watch the dominion war and watch Galaxies get ripped to pieces like parchment. Granted they are weak, but they are not beasts. For heavens sake hey are not even otpimized for combat as they have FAMILIES aboard.
lolwut??? :P
I think you're the one that needs to rewatch the entire DS9 show and also re-read this entire thread.
The Galaxies were brawling it out during the DW encounters, and people have posted clips and screenshots in this thread that testify how the Galaxies cut through the Dominion fleets and then turn around for another pass. :P
The ships that get ripped to pieces were usually Mirandas/Centaurs, Excelsiors and D'Deridexes.
Seriously guys, get your facts straight. Being peacefull and avoiding conflict does not mean your ship is weak.
Besides the Odyssey - there isn't a single confirmed kill of a Galaxy during the Dominion Wars. Even the books which are soft canon only mention the Asgard being lost during Chintoka when the energy dampener wiped out the fleet.
So out of ten or fifteen Galaxy Class starships - we lost the Odyssey because her shields were useless against Polaron damage, and even with no shields - she held off three attack ships for over ten minutes and was leisurely leaving when one of them ran a kamikaze run. The other, which isn't canon, was lost when a new enemy super weapon fried it's power systems.
The Galaxy class was THE heavy hitter for the Federation during the Dominion war. The Defiant rarely engaged heavy ships, mostly bug hunting. It's the Galaxy classes that went toe to toe with Jem Dreadnoughts and Cardassian Keldons.
Would it be more fair to say that the Galaxy-class was just really good at getting hit? I'm recalling sporadic phaser bursts from stationary Galaxy-class ships in the Dominion war arc, the time two Galaxies tried to kill a Galor (but didn't), and just poking at orbital defense platforms. However, they did take quite a wallop that few other starships can't. Best example are those Cardassian orbital platforms; Mirandas, Excelsiors, BoPs, D'Deridexes, and such are getting pulled to pieces but a Galaxy-class just flew over three of the killers and kept right on chuggin'.
Member since November 2009... I think. (UFP) Ragnar
Probably best that don't happen. If we stick to canon that strictly, the Scimitar would be even more overpowered than it is now.
it would be quite a bit weaker actually, or other ships would be much stronger. the entire wings and a good portion of the interior is devoted to the thaloron super weapon, that's why its so large. it may have a large number of guns, but they are all pretty small, and pretty spread out to cover every arc. its doesn't have any guns near to the scale of the huge nose cannon the d'deridex has, or those big under slung cannons on the negvar, or a galaxy main array. the scimitar is a super weapon platform, with an emphasis on stealth and defense so it can deliver its weapon. the large number of smallish guns is to deal with swarms of attackers it might have to deal with, there was no capital ship grade cannons on the scimitar in that movie.
Actually Dominion war Galaxy classes didn't have blank modular pods - a war standing Galaxy class is one of the best troop transports known. In Yesterday's Enterprise, Yar tells Castillo that the Enterprise carries over six thousand troops and their equipment. So those 'ten Galaxy classes' with no civilians are carting a hell of a lot of soldiers into the field.
its unlikely most of those war time galaxies were that filled out, especially if their mission didn't involve planetary invasion. in those old AOL Q&As i think one of the producers said all those galaxy's you see were mostly left empty with only what they needed to fight. the yesterday's enterprise galaxy is the perfect example of what can be done with the class though.
Actually the enterprise was basically made Mary Sue to survive engagements or guess what the show ends.
Watch the dominion war and watch Galaxies get ripped to pieces like parchment. Granted they are weak, but they are not beasts. For heavens sake hey are not even otpimized for combat as they have FAMILIES aboard.
Sorry galaxy really isn't that much of a beast.
seriously what show were you watching? no galaxy class was seen destroyed on screen when the war had already started, and none of them were set up as long term explores like the enterprise was. every time you see a galaxy it was shrugging off hits that broke other ships in half or it was flanking the whole dominion fleet after they beat the defiant to the rear line. and the odyssey, a 'family' spec galaxy, hull tanked those 2 bugs for ~10 minutes before disengaging. when the klingons were attacking DS9, they got scared off by a single approaching galaxy and a couple of excelsior. the ship is a beast no mater its form, even unoptimized for combat.
the time two Galaxies tried to kill a Galor (but didn't), and just poking at orbital defense platforms.
those looked like shots to disable, they were point blank with it and unlike in sto core breaches would be pretty dangerous. that moving glow effect on the array before the shots fired were all very small, only a handful of emitter's power was used for each shot, those were not whole array discharges. more like subsystem targeting.
look at how Jellico beefed up the Enterprise D to fight the cardassians without a shipyard !
Chain of command part 1 and 2 TNG
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Comments
perhaps a lot of other players would be the same
perhaps thats why it is the worst cruiser in the game
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
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While I very much wellcome the ability to separate the saucer in the go and it's more in line with canon, this was not the burden of the Galaxy-R.
The changes on the "team abilites" were not an update for the Galaxy, they were an update for every single ship in STO. Yes, it makes the 3-rd ens.engineer somewhat more viable. But guess what? That change alone just made the Excelsior about 100 times better than it made the Galaxy. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about, my Excel is ridiculously better after this change.
Honestly, I do realize that we're probably beating a dead horse. At least as long as Geko's in charge. That is what I think.
We're not neccessarily asking for a "total revamp" whatever it means, most of us would just want the ship to be somewhat viable. Heck, I'd be happy if she wasn't the worst cruiser in game, the fact that she is - is insulting to the fans and to the franchise. And we'll probably keep beating that horse even if it's dead until some changes happen or until STO shuts down leaving this thread as a sad reminder of how terribad the developer treated one of the franchise's most iconinc representations.
They could have implemented the Dyson "trick" for the Galaxy upon separation. But God forbid they make something good for the Galaxy and make it a decent ship.
And as I said in another thread - don't overgeneralize about the Connie thing. Actions of an individual are not the actions of a group. Here in this thread we have people that absolutely loathe the idea of a T5 Connie and we have people like me that don't understand this stance given everything that's happening in STO and always gladly support that particular idea.
Yes they listened. :rolleyes:
If by listening you mean sticking the fingers in their ears and going "LALALALALALALALALALALA".
We're not actually wasting much energy. We're just pointing out the misspresentation and injustice that is happening towards a single ship that by itself is one of the most iconic representations of the IP. We happen to be passionate about this and are simply expressing our dissent.
And playing the damned game is getting more and more lackluster when you see them sticking a big FU sign to the most iconic ships like the Galaxy or the Connie for that matter, while aparently gutted and lobotomized OP Undine ships are a go.
I think this is a very good point. The Defiant, Intrepid, and Galaxy were probably first designed to be the extreme Tactical, extreme Science, and extreme Engineering representation of the escort, research, and cruiser categories respectively. So I think what would be best is if Cryptic figures out a way to make a ship with 5 Engineering consoles be as effective as 5 Science consoles be as effective as 5 Tactical consoles.
Or at least, in my opinion.
(UFP) Ragnar
Why does the old Gal have to be so Eng focused, again?
Not disputing what you're saying about 5 console ships being equally effective, though.
In the overall scheme of things the "Galaxy Class" ship is pretty weak, it's not really optimized for combat, and in several comparisons it's been made abundantly clear it's not War Ship. This is why ships like this did so poorly (comparitivly speaking) during The Dominion War when fighting actual warships, with ships like "The Defiant" being such a big deal because they were dedicated Warships, which were an anathema to The Federation and it's attitudes. The "Galaxy Class" did okay when it was facing opponents that were not optimized, or had a lower level of technology, but to be blunt "The Enterprise" had a tendency to get slapped around constantly. I mean the cases where it got it's butt kicked/power drained/damaged vastly outweigh the cases where it really kicked butt. For the most part 90% of the show was about finding ways that didn't rely on it's power or prowess to succeed and survive. In the cases where it did fight successfully for a while in many cases it was using dirty tricks againt overconfident opponents (like The Borg).
As a general rule a ship like this was sent around on diplomatic missions, to show the flag, and to be versatile and comfortable enough for prolonged exploration missions. Indeed the ship class was so anti-warship in it's design that it had crewmembers families on board. Many people have pointed out how dumb that would be for a warship (nobody wants to take their family in to be shot at when your looking for fights), but the point is it wasn't a Warship.
In the scope of STO "Tactical" seems to refer to components specifically designed to be used in battle, and given the intent of The Galaxy it logically wouldn't have many. It's also not a dedicated science vessel either. One thing it does however display in the series is brute durability and the ability to survive a pounding from other ships or space anamolies. That is Engineering in a nutshell as far as STO is concerned.
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It should also be noted that Star Trek has largely been about drama and exploration, the really exciting action bits happen but are comparatively rare. Despite this The Federation has managed to start a bunch of different wars, and as of where we left off The Federation was beginning to more more onto a wartime footing. As it takes place in the future, STO could be seen as a sort of ongoing protracted "action scene" as The Federation and other Alpha Quadrant races deal with the mess of violence and warfare that the TV series left off and never covered largely for budget reasons. In STO we've got multiple races (Tholians, Borg, Cardiassian/Dominion hold outs, Imperial Romulans, Undine, and of coure Iconians) wanting to level The Federation, while there is a massive tension with the KDF that periodically erupts into fighting despite numerous common enemies. Later ships have been developed with more of a combat focus (despite other functions) being a product of their time, and given this huge, multi-front war it also sort of explains some of the odder "non-canon ships", as persumbly The Federation modifying and throwing out every hull it can beg, borrow, steal, or salvage given the sheer number of enemies and constant warfare.
In this kind of environment, The Galaxy, a ship largely intended to show the flag during peacetime, would be kind of second rate. Even when doing mods (like the Galaxy X Dreadnaught) there is only so much kit bashing your going to be able to do to an existing ship.... and honestly, Cryptic did expand The Galaxy class a bit more recently due to popular demand, making it a bit tougher than it should be.
That said CBS/Paramount/Viacom will likely never acknowledge STO for obvious reasons, but it would be amusing if in doing another series they had The Federation recovering from a massive war and referencing the "dark age" that had just passed. On some respects STO does seem pretty accurate to what an empire might do in time of war, installing partially understood technologies from tons of alien races and stuff into everything, etc... and in a more dramatic sense it has some story potential. It would be kind of cool to see a sort of in-character reaction to say finding an old Voth ship on picket duty that had been partially borgified, armed with undine weapons, and tons of other scavenged technologies defending some federation colony world, a silent testament to desperation ... and overwhelming firepower (That's totally insane... they thankfully don't make them like that anymore...)
The point is this is not TNG, and honestly it would be kind of boring if it was. Almost every encounter would involve "some malevolent alien has disabled your ship" followed by selecting text options to hope Jean-Luc can find some way of brownnosing his way out of it. Either that or listenng to your BOFFS ramble about personal problems for 45 minutes before being allowed to hit the "Techno-Babble" button causing Geordi or Data to mention some particle (with a name created by slamming their head into a keyboard a few times) has the miraculous power to save everything... and does... "Amazing sir, the Bgfqfgqafgq particle infusion has allowed us to break free and escape....". I kid, I kid... I love Star Trek (obviously) but that could be kind of boring.
well the fact that they are presented as equals at all and that they are all as equally important is just evidence that this is a pvp game, with nothing but pve TRIBBLE onto it's pvp balance. because in pvp, these things are pretty close to equal, are all needed for a successful team. if your unhappy about the way ships other then tactical heavy are of inferior use, your playing the wrong content. pve unless it was fundamentally different can't cater to your ship type. only if npcs were as close to being the same as player ships as possible would a sic captains skills be of use in pve. its only since my 2 AtB build style became main stream did tac cruisers become equals to escorts in pve, and in some ways surpass them. cryptic knows that there are possibly a majority of its players want cruisers to be as good as escorts in pve, and thanks to their short sightedness the 2 AtB build became possible and answered this players prayers. no mater how imbalanced it might be, its never going away, its a successful ligit hack of their systems that makes a majority of the players happier it exists. sci ships are always gonna have a harder time, but most of the recent sci ships can use DHCs, so theres that at least.
above all pve concerns, the pvp balance must be preserved. because pvp can't work with out it, wile you can do any pve by picking a random ship, and literally filling every item and station slot with something random. case in point, all those missions were you fly a ship other then your own for a part of it, holy TRIBBLE those builds are terrible, if not purposefully the worst possible.
the galaxy might be my favorite ship, but even if it was good it would never replace every other ship and play style for me. fat slow beam boats are only a fraction of the fun to be had, that alone would get old fast. id never lose interest in everything else, and i don't think anyone else would ether.
therse's a good chance the sovereign is more popular then the galaxy among players, and you don't see them just using the repackaged and excellent regent now do you. how many sovereign lovers are opting to use the avenger or something else entirely? i just don't think this line of reasoning has any merit, i recall them even being disappointed in the initial sales of the regent after they made it even.
the amount of posting about the galaxy is directly proportional to how bad it is, in contrast to how good it should be. on all the other popular ships in game, you don't hear much talking about them because they are already fine, or more then fine as is. doing less then the bare minimum, granting it the universal ENS the fleet neghvar and fleet dread got would shut down this thread and future galaxy complaint almost entirely. it deserves more, but hey, it wouldn't be flying with an arm tied behind your back to use it if it was thrown that scrap.
this is dead wrong, but unfortunately its what the majority AND those that stat ships at cryptic seem to believe. probably the biggest reason this thread is so long is the analysis of the ship's performance and firepower in the canon, showing that its actually the most powerful federation ship in the entire canon. but even if this couldn't be proven, the canon performance bias applied to how the galaxy R is stated is a gross discrimination, compared to the free pass all the other canon ships in game get.
even if this were true, you can't reason that the excelsior and ambassador class aren't worse in every single way then a galaxy. or that all the ships that proved inferior to the galaxy, like the galor, have any business being one of the better cruisers, and better then the galaxy in every way in game.
the skill torp spread? that skill would have no inspiration to exist if it wasn't for the enterprise D firing 10+ torps bursts all at once. no other canon ship manages a bust larger then 4 per launcher. no other ship has main phaser arrays half as long, with as many emitters linked together having an additive effect to each shots potential firepower. the enterprise D, per shot, dissolved more volume of that first borg cube they encountered then the enterprise had volume her self! no ship, not even the enterprise E in nemesis, put down a volume of fire like this here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_XbWq49vUM by the way, every time the enterprise D got jobbed super hard in the show, if it had just defended it self this well the fights would have been over in seconds. only against impossibly strong targets like a cube of this imaginary husnock warship is the D ever allowed to fright to its potential. because even if it does this doesn't jeprodize the progression of the underdog story the writers are only able to come up with in tng. stories more appropriate for an actual underdog that comes later, voyager.
the galaxy class was also one of the more modular ships classes ever, the way the enterprise was set up was just one possible configuration style, you see alternate universe versions that are much different on the inside, but the same on the outside, like in yesterday's enterprise. thats the galaxy set up to be a war time battleship, and not a gilder flagship, the flying federation ideal made manifest, that yes was clearly not a ship on a war footing. during captain jelico's short period of command, he was able to modify what he had to work with so it would be adequately battle ready if need be. during the dominion war, galaxy class were mass produced, an odd choice if it was just a huge toothless cruise ship. its the only way to explain how you can see more then 10 in every fleet shot. these were not fully loaded enterprise D spec galaxies, most of that modular interior was left blank, they are just a huge flying weapons platform with those highest burst torp launchers and highest per shot phaser firepower arrays. these were the backbone of the fleets, and they were battleships. during operation return, you actually see them flying the wrong direction, as if they blasted their way through the fleet, and began flanking the dominion forces to ease the passage of more federation ships.
the odyssey may have failed to shoot down 2 bug ships, but it hull tanks their assault for ~10 whole minutes, and then moved to disengage under its own power. such a large ship has incredible damage soak, such weak weapons were all but incapable of ever actually destroying the odyssey. thanks to all the shape shifter founder spying by that point, the attack ships had their weapons and shield tuned to be unblockable and impenetrable, the fight could have gone no other way, no mater what class the odyssey was. it was similar to the fight in generations. for all the hits they took, the ship was not significantly damaged. that last torpedo just somehow triggered a containment failure.
thats the just of the galaxy class's pedigree, or at least all i feel like writing about. if the ships stats should be judged by its canon performance, then by all means do so.
Why? I mean good god, there are so many ships to try. Granted the Gal can be your go to ship but jesuse go fly something else once in a while.
Like me for my main character my main goto ship is my Avenger. But I got a ton of ships now. Tier 5 intrepid, Vesta, Odyssey, Gal-X, Gal-R, Regent, Excelsior, Dyson destroyer, Obilesk carrier.
And I try to fly all of them. Come on guys, there is more than one ship to own and fly. Go try them all!
Have your fav ship, but go catch them all!
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Oh boy, you really shoud've read the thread. Not being that insane to read through 650 pages is perfectly understandable, but still....you would have seen numerous evidence extracted from the shows which point that your conclusions on the Galaxy and her beeing "meak" are very wrong and the Galaxy is actually one of the most potent Federation starships in canon.
Yes, TNG relied heavily on other methods for establishing dramatic effects - and that is quite understandable, I mean how interesting would a show about an OP ship that blows everything to smitherines be? This however has nothing to do with the power of the ship.
During DS9, the Galaxies were the heart of the Federation's fleets. The Defiant is a small ship. Yes, it has potent weaponry for her size, but they were meant to operate in swarms against the Borg, not as a single unit. 1 on 1, a Galaxy would splash a Defiant like you splash a mosquito against the wall.
^^ THIS!!
Exactly what I have been saying for a long time. The entire argument that the Galaxy is being held down on purpose, because if it's any good noone would buy any other ship is pure BS.
And if there really is someone at Cryptic that could actually think this as well, they need to have their head examined.
I have 15 chars. I don't use the same ship on neither of those. 8 of them are KDF FFS. I own every Federation cruiser, plus some other ships. I still use the Galaxy-R on my main anyway, even with how lackluster she currently is in the grand scheme of things. That didn't stop me from buying other ships. You wanna' know what could stop me and probably has? The treatment the one of the iconic ships of ST is getting here.
I don't quite get your point here.
What does this have to do with me wanting the iconinc Galaxy Class, the legendary Enterprise-D to be more usefull and better represented in the game?
Working on my last charcer which is a fed engineering and I plan to have 4 end ships. Excelsior, Gal-R, Gal-X and Regent. Plan to have them all set up different ways for different missions.
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Yeah, the reason I've came to this rather high number of chars (ok, I know that it might not be high for some, but it is for me :P) is because I wanted to try out different ships and I usually keep a char in a designated ship.
But if someone has a dream of flying only a Galaxy Class or any other ship for that matter - more power to them, as long as that's what makes them happy and enjoy their time in STO.
True, but many I've seen want the galaxy basically to roflstomp anything it comes across while being their one main ship. That I do not agree with. Granted I will agree it could use a leg up considering it's one of the weaker ships around, but it should be buffed so it can basically stomp anything it sees and tries not to get any on the hull while it does it.
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Ofcourse!
/10chars.
ofcourse they are! they are selling like hotcakes, gotta make them more appealing. Hell I even broke down and bought one for my sci fed.
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is there anyone that actually thinks that? i don't think so. we may bring up what a beast it was in canon, but that's just to prove it shouldn't suck in game, not that it should be the scimitar mk2
I own the entire pack, but I really fail to see the logic in buffing the best science ship, that much more if they're already selling like hotcakes as you say. Not that I mind to have my ship buffed.
But what's the point of making a great ship that is already sellnig well more appealing, rather than others that are not doing so well?
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Actually Dominion war Galaxy classes didn't have blank modular pods - a war standing Galaxy class is one of the best troop transports known. In Yesterday's Enterprise, Yar tells Castillo that the Enterprise carries over six thousand troops and their equipment. So those 'ten Galaxy classes' with no civilians are carting a hell of a lot of soldiers into the field.
Actually the enterprise was basically made Mary Sue to survive engagements or guess what the show ends.
Watch the dominion war and watch Galaxies get ripped to pieces like parchment. Granted they are weak, but they are not beasts. For heavens sake hey are not even otpimized for combat as they have FAMILIES aboard.
Sorry galaxy really isn't that much of a beast.
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.... We're weaponized troop ships? :eek:
(UFP) Ragnar
Um, no, those were Mirandas and Excelsiors getting torn to shreds. The Odyssey notwithstanding, the Galaxies tended to weather the storm and pay it back with interest. And they stopped carrying families aboard, too.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
lolwut??? :P
I think you're the one that needs to rewatch the entire DS9 show and also re-read this entire thread.
The Galaxies were brawling it out during the DW encounters, and people have posted clips and screenshots in this thread that testify how the Galaxies cut through the Dominion fleets and then turn around for another pass. :P
The ships that get ripped to pieces were usually Mirandas/Centaurs, Excelsiors and D'Deridexes.
Seriously guys, get your facts straight. Being peacefull and avoiding conflict does not mean your ship is weak.
So out of ten or fifteen Galaxy Class starships - we lost the Odyssey because her shields were useless against Polaron damage, and even with no shields - she held off three attack ships for over ten minutes and was leisurely leaving when one of them ran a kamikaze run. The other, which isn't canon, was lost when a new enemy super weapon fried it's power systems.
The Galaxy class was THE heavy hitter for the Federation during the Dominion war. The Defiant rarely engaged heavy ships, mostly bug hunting. It's the Galaxy classes that went toe to toe with Jem Dreadnoughts and Cardassian Keldons.
(UFP) Ragnar
it would be quite a bit weaker actually, or other ships would be much stronger. the entire wings and a good portion of the interior is devoted to the thaloron super weapon, that's why its so large. it may have a large number of guns, but they are all pretty small, and pretty spread out to cover every arc. its doesn't have any guns near to the scale of the huge nose cannon the d'deridex has, or those big under slung cannons on the negvar, or a galaxy main array. the scimitar is a super weapon platform, with an emphasis on stealth and defense so it can deliver its weapon. the large number of smallish guns is to deal with swarms of attackers it might have to deal with, there was no capital ship grade cannons on the scimitar in that movie.
its unlikely most of those war time galaxies were that filled out, especially if their mission didn't involve planetary invasion. in those old AOL Q&As i think one of the producers said all those galaxy's you see were mostly left empty with only what they needed to fight. the yesterday's enterprise galaxy is the perfect example of what can be done with the class though.
seriously what show were you watching? no galaxy class was seen destroyed on screen when the war had already started, and none of them were set up as long term explores like the enterprise was. every time you see a galaxy it was shrugging off hits that broke other ships in half or it was flanking the whole dominion fleet after they beat the defiant to the rear line. and the odyssey, a 'family' spec galaxy, hull tanked those 2 bugs for ~10 minutes before disengaging. when the klingons were attacking DS9, they got scared off by a single approaching galaxy and a couple of excelsior. the ship is a beast no mater its form, even unoptimized for combat.
those looked like shots to disable, they were point blank with it and unlike in sto core breaches would be pretty dangerous. that moving glow effect on the array before the shots fired were all very small, only a handful of emitter's power was used for each shot, those were not whole array discharges. more like subsystem targeting.
Chain of command part 1 and 2 TNG
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse