I don't disagree with your approach, but we should plan for both scenarios. Borticus did say "maaaaybe" when I asked him for an Engineering BOff ability review on TTS a couple of months back, but the chances of Cryptic actually changing the underlying systems because of one ship are minimal.
Changing how current skills work? I don't think that's needed. But adding skills to our current selection would be wonderful. For example, consider how easier it would be to choose ensign abilities when you can pick more than two that doesn't share cooldowns.
5820 posts here and still we only get a minor revamp of the dread
guess so much about the usefulness of giving feedback in these forums
It probably depends a lot on the focus of the feedback. If posters are focused on feeding the game imbalance so that more content would be imbalanced(aka balancing the game with all content imbalanced) such as what's happening with everyone demanding all ships be tactical to handle the tactical-demanding gameplay, then the devs definitely would have less of a chance of listening to us. But if the feedback is instead about addressing the core of the issues, then we might have something.
I think that the reason why most posters here didn't get what they wanted was because of that very reason. The devs will not pay attention to suggestions appealing to the imbalance. But they did recognize that the Galaxy needed more strength. So they gave it more - but they gave it more where they wanted its strength to lie - in its tanking ability. That's the role they want for it, and they'll ignore feedback that suggests it give in to the need for every ship to be DPS-heavy.
That said, they're still not addressing the main problem, that is, to balance gameplay where tanks are needed as well. Not to mention the power creep that makes tactical ships tanky enough to handle the content without ships made for tanking. If Cryptic solves those underlying issues, I think we'll be set.
The Galaxy retrofit is not fixed..... I thinks it's awesome they tried. This just doesn't do it. I'm not even sure at this point what the solution is. I'll try it anyway, but the set bonus takes up 2 very badly needed spots to use them. I don't want it to unbalance the game. But the ship is just to under gunned. It's attack capability is just to limited to make it competitive.
You want to explain to me why this ship doesn't need better damage output?
Because your DPS is low? I'm a sci and my build is not perfected and I do much more then that.
I'm pulling near 15k in groups, and 9-10k on my own.
Perhaps it is time to re-evaluate how you fly the girl instead of the girl herself.
If they devs were ever going to cave now would have been the time.
Personally, I'm glad they didn't cave. The ship is far from broken, people need to learn how to play.
Edit: I may currently be the only person on the planet who is actually planning on possibly using the Gal-X's new uni ensign to slot an eng and mimic the Gal-R boff layout...
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Oh. so you mean having the layout of a tactical cruiser and also the layout of a support ship, in short "I can do everything".
We have one, its called D'deridex and doesnt stop people from complaining about it because reasons (AKA, powercreep)
What you propose is just the ultimate cruiser in layout making every other cruiser obsolete ... then what? should we start having 2 Cmdr stations when we go about revising the now lagging behind ships after this comes out, like the Soverign? do we keep powercreep because QQ over their favorite ship not being OP? how about the Escorts that are starting to suffer issues from the FAWA2Bs? how about lock box ships like the D'kora or the Galor with a rigid BO layout?
When does it ends? when we all fly 5 uni Cmdr station ships?
I would hope so because "listening" would mean every cruiser in this game would have the same exact BO layout, that is the Odyssey layout or something even crazier.
Tactical cruisers should have a Lt Cmdr because they are tactical cruisers BUT if they slap a hangar on it then I point out the Marauder thats about a copy of the Galaxy (except with a ensign sci) that is asked to work just fine with a Lt Tactical station, if the Galaxy-R had the Lt. and ensign option BUT the Galaxy-R would only have the ensign open is one thing, asking to make the entire cruiser line obsolete with the exception of the Avenger (and only because of the Avenger turn rate) is another.
Another thing about the D'D (I use and love the ship btw) is people wanted a ship that can do everything, so they got it, but now they complain that they can't focus it into a build because it's too spread out. I personally wouldn't mind having the D'D layout on the galaxy, but people are still going to complain because of the turn rate or the looks or whatever. The real problem with the D'D, Galaxy, Galaxy-x and other iconic ships is that they are so iconic people have their own idea of what the ship should be. Some want a super tac ship, some super science, some want it all so no one is going to be happy no matter what cryptic does.
I think what we really need is more engineering powers, especially at the ensign level.
Tell you what, why don't we run ISE together and parse the logs separately? Then, depending on the results, you can tell me I'm flying the ship wrong.
:rolleyes:
Look me up if you must, I'll not chase you down just to school you.
I have parses posted all over the forum and people fly with me all the time.
If you need some sort of public humiliation to prove that I out DPS you I will provide it. Plenty of people out there can vouch for my damage.
Is is that hard to accept that perhaps you don't know everything there is to know about flying a Galaxy-R? Just maybe? Or is it just too hard on the ego to realize that an old, crippled lady knows more about the ship then you do?
Edit: I realize you question my parser settings, you mentioned so elsewhere. Under yours I just hit 12,905 dps ISE. Cold, with a build that is not my top end build (I'd have to remember how I did it and retrain the boffs, I don't keep a DPS Galaxy handy just to school nubs, I actually play the game to have fun)
Edit2: Your ego has over ruled your logic. I know my DPS. I know yours. I know your parser settings, so my knowledge is accurate. Competing with me will get you nowhere, the outcome is assured. Perhaps you should practice, or try something different, or maybe ask questions... Simply seeing it first hand to make your ego leave your logic alone is an unnecessary step. Calm down.
Edit3: And if you were to beat me, you would only be proving my point and not yours in the first place, that the Galaxy-R does plenty of DPS... So I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish.,.. Either way I win... Else I don't fight... Sooner you learn that the better...
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Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
@ kimmym: I'm not really into the whole DPS-thing, but now I'm curious where I'll end up with my ships (I only use 2 tac console canon designs with canon armament, so... ). What parser do you guys use and what benchmarks are appropriate?
@ all: So, the Galaxy revamp is here. It's a universal ensign for the Dread, a 2-piece set bonus that improves tanking and a smooth seperation.
I'm curious to try out the new seperation mechanic and finally see the correct saucer rejoining with my stardrive section Other than that, nothing has changed really. I do appreciate the 2-piece-set bonus since my main Gal IS a tank although not needed I try to make her simply indestructible
EDIT: Right, I forgot: HANGAR!!!! USE THE FORCE!!!
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Basically, ISE ends up being the only really good benchmark, for stability reasons. It features several different combat types (single target, multi target, controlled fire, large targets, small targets, fast targets, non moving...) and assuming something doesn't go horribly wrong, it spawns the same amount of mobs every time. Also, it tends to be the only one where most people are in range of eachother for parsing the whole time, so people naturally turn to it in game to fly against eachother and see. As such, it has also become the "gold standard" for talk on the forums.
For testing purposes, tho, any event that you can repeat can serve as some sort of benchmark. I often use fleet alerts. That gets odd, as the different NPC's that spawn give differnent results (I'm always lower on Romulans, Borg, and Tholians) and you get people of all levels, but it pops up much faster and is more forgiving of experimental builds. I often use FA for testing and then will hop into ISE to get a more "official" number.
All that being said, your DPS in ISE is... kinda irrelevant. It will be inflated, because you will be able to play to it.
When you take a DPS monster out of ISE... they tend to compare much more similarly to other ships.
I'm not sure I've ever seen anybody break 15k in a FA, and even my low damage ships hover at 10k... the differences in the ships aren't as big as people make them out to be. Sure, people like to argue, and more damage is better then less... but... in this game those levels of damage are unnecessary, outside of PvP, and even then, those big DPS scimmies are not all the rage, too squishy.
Fly what you like, make it work. If you don't like it, fly something else.
Keep at it enough, you end up like me, thousands of dollars in ships and the wisdom that they are all pretty much the same in the end. Even the "best" and the "worst" are not all that much different. They fly. They shoot. They have some tricks. They can all do enough, and the ones that do more, good for them. It's not that much more, unless you are playing to the parser, and then its half illusionary anyway.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Turning the Galaxies into scimis is not the aim.
Making them decent ships is. And if they are outclassed by everything, they are not decent.
Craptic could have been creative and used all the recently developed tech (game engine upgrades are meant here) to re-create the 2 ships. They didn't. They went with a lazy, cheap and dumb cop out. Not to mention that they displayed a thought process that is too far removed from common sense for me to still believe that these people are actually humans. The must be aliens. Dumb, stranded-because-they-ate-their-warp-drive, aliens that collect stuff. Stuff that makes them go....
Changing how current skills work? I don't think that's needed. But adding skills to our current selection would be wonderful. For example, consider how easier it would be to choose ensign abilities when you can pick more than two that doesn't share cooldowns.
I kinda' agree on that one. I have no problem flying my Galaxy-R with the current setup, but it would be nice to have some usefull low end engineering Boff ablities that don't trip over each other constantly.
It probably depends a lot on the focus of the feedback. If posters are focused on feeding the game imbalance so that more content would be imbalanced(aka balancing the game with all content imbalanced) such as what's happening with everyone demanding all ships be tactical to handle the tactical-demanding gameplay, then the devs definitely would have less of a chance of listening to us. But if the feedback is instead about addressing the core of the issues, then we might have something.
I think that the reason why most posters here didn't get what they wanted was because of that very reason. The devs will not pay attention to suggestions appealing to the imbalance. But they did recognize that the Galaxy needed more strength. So they gave it more - but they gave it more where they wanted its strength to lie - in its tanking ability. That's the role they want for it, and they'll ignore feedback that suggests it give in to the need for every ship to be DPS-heavy.
With all due respect, this tread consists some of the most balanced ideas I've ever seen on the forum. In fact, I have never seen a thread regarding any other ships where players suggest such balanced decisions as a fix.
There must be a hundred good and balanced ideas in this thread. Cryptic decided to not listen to or implement any of them, which is disheartening.
Also, don't get me wrong about this, but I find it rather funy that you say "the devs will not pay attention to suggestions appealing to the imbalance" when at the same time those are the same people that released the Scimitar and the Lead Designer himself joked how "OP sells".
That said, they're still not addressing the main problem, that is, to balance gameplay where tanks are needed as well. Not to mention the power creep that makes tactical ships tanky enough to handle the content without ships made for tanking. If Cryptic solves those underlying issues, I think we'll be set.
I completely agree with this. I'd be perfectly satisfied with the current Galaxy-R if she had a role to fulfill that is relevant in this game.
However I've been here long enough to observe some general directions of the game and I'm at a point where I seriously doubt they'll ever change the basic premise of their game design - DPS. Just take a look at NW, people over there also complain that the game is a complete DPS fiesta. I hope I'm wrong though.
But the fact that they gave the Galaxy-R more tanking in a game that doesn't require tanks and called it a day is just another sad proof about their view on the Galaxy.
This was the Enterprise-D! This is one of the most iconic ships in the entire franchise and yet in this game it's chained at the bottom of the barrel. The Galaxy doesn't deserve that and as a life long ST fan I'm starting to find it a bit insulting.
Oh. so you mean having the layout of a tactical cruiser and also the layout of a support ship, in short "I can do everything".
We have one, its called D'deridex and doesnt stop people from complaining about it because reasons (AKA, powercreep)
What you propose is just the ultimate cruiser in layout making every other cruiser obsolete ... then what? should we start having 2 Cmdr stations when we go about revising the now lagging behind ships after this comes out, like the Soverign? do we keep powercreep because QQ over their favorite ship not being OP? how about the Escorts that are starting to suffer issues from the FAWA2Bs? how about lock box ships like the D'kora or the Galor with a rigid BO layout?
When does it ends? when we all fly 5 uni Cmdr station ships?
I take it you missed the "ideally" part, yes?
Anyway, you do realize that this is Cryptic's idea and not mine, right?
When they released the D'Deridex on Tribble it had the exact same layout as the Galaxy-R. People complained about it and what you see me posting here was Cryptic's answer to those complains. Heck, they even gave it a Ens.Uni as oposed to mine all locked. :rolleyes:
So you've said it yourself, my ideal layout that I know I can only dream about is one that people complain about for being weak and subpar.
Now go and put your head in a bucket of cold water, come back here after and try to tell me with a staright face that I want powercreep. I want to see that.
With all due respect, this tread consists some of the most balanced ideas I've ever seen on the forum. In fact, I have never seen a thread regarding any other ships where players suggest such balanced decisions as a fix.
There must be a hundred good and balanced ideas in this thread. Cryptic decided to not listen to or implement any of them, which is disheartening.
I completely understand. I've given my fair share of input about the Galaxy as well. Although I am pleased with the 'revamp'... nothing I have suggested appeared in it. Not directly, at least.
Also, don't get me wrong about this, but I find it rather funy that you say "the devs will not pay attention to suggestions appealing to the imbalance" when at the same time those are the same people that released the Scimitar and the Lead Designer himself joked how "OP sells".
I'm not sure I mind having an OP Scimitar in the game. It's canon, after all, and I enjoy when the amount of gameplay/story segregation is reduced. Buuuut I do acknowledge that OP is bad for a game, and there does need to be balance somewhere.
I joked on teamspeak last night about how the Scimitar on Star Trek Nemisis was taken out and how funny it would be if the Scimitar and Scimitar variants in-game was susceptible to the same thing, that is, [spoilers] maybe a 20% chance for a boarding party to destroy it instantly [/spoilers]. =p
Look me up if you must, I'll not chase you down just to school you.
I have parses posted all over the forum and people fly with me all the time.
If you need some sort of public humiliation to prove that I out DPS you I will provide it. Plenty of people out there can vouch for my damage.
Is is that hard to accept that perhaps you don't know everything there is to know about flying a Galaxy-R? Just maybe? Or is it just too hard on the ego to realize that an old, crippled lady knows more about the ship then you do?
Edit: I realize you question my parser settings, you mentioned so elsewhere. Under yours I just hit 12,905 dps ISE. Cold, with a build that is not my top end build (I'd have to remember how I did it and retrain the boffs, I don't keep a DPS Galaxy handy just to school nubs, I actually play the game to have fun)
Edit2: Your ego has over ruled your logic. I know my DPS. I know yours. I know your parser settings, so my knowledge is accurate. Competing with me will get you nowhere, the outcome is assured. Perhaps you should practice, or try something different, or maybe ask questions... Simply seeing it first hand to make your ego leave your logic alone is an unnecessary step. Calm down.
Edit3: And if you were to beat me, you would only be proving my point and not yours in the first place, that the Galaxy-R does plenty of DPS... So I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish.,.. Either way I win... Else I don't fight... Sooner you learn that the better...
I can vouch that this damage is definitly possible. I get 10k dps in my fleet galaxy retrofit, and I know y'all aren't talking about PvP but when i use it in PvP, it's a very nice ship, it can take a lot of pressure. I was getting ganged up on by a jem'hadar attack ship and a fleet mogai, and I took out the mogai from FAW alone! The bugship never died, simply because the guy is a speed tanker and regen tank. The Galaxy Retrofit is not the best for DPS by any means, my excelsior can do a helluva lot more damage, but ignoring the galaxy noob because he can't hurt you will get you killed in our pvp's
I joked on teamspeak last night about how the Scimitar on Star Trek Nemisis was taken out and how funny it would be if the Scimitar and Scimitar variants in-game was susceptible to the same thing, that is, [spoilers] maybe a 20% chance for a boarding party to destroy it instantly [/spoilers]. =p
I can vouch that this damage is definitly possible. I get 10k dps in my fleet galaxy retrofit, and I know y'all aren't talking about PvP but when i use it in PvP, it's a very nice ship, it can take a lot of pressure. I was getting ganged up on by a jem'hadar attack ship and a fleet mogai, and I took out the mogai from FAW alone! The bugship never died, simply because the guy is a speed tanker and regen tank. The Galaxy Retrofit is not the best for DPS by any means, my excelsior can do a helluva lot more damage, but ignoring the galaxy noob because he can't hurt you will get you killed in our pvp's
LOL!
You should have been there!
I was toying with my PvE galaxy when the fleetmate I have the hardest time beating in PvP asks for someone to test their new build on. I say sure, this will be funny...
He was in his Mobius, PvP build, the one I always curse when I see coming at me. I have a Mobius as well, and we often fight for 40 minutes at a time before one of us gets sloppy and makes a mistake. We are quite well matched, tho he is better then me.
Took him out 4 times with my Gal-R...
With Boarding Parties, no less :P
Paired with doffs and subnuke, I could strip his tac team at the worst possible moment, and let a ton of boarding parties fly right up his tailpipe.
He laughed the first time, and switched back to his proven build. Yeah, he popped me a couple good ones, but I still got him 3 more times.
In a Gal-R...
Speced for PvE...
With boarding parties for crying out loud...
People around here are worse then the Voth and their Doctrine. Galaxy-R sucks, no exeptions. Anything else is heretical.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I joked on teamspeak last night about how the Scimitar on Star Trek Nemisis was taken out and how funny it would be if the Scimitar and Scimitar variants in-game was susceptible to the same thing, that is, [spoilers] maybe a 20% chance for a boarding party to destroy it instantly [/spoilers]. =p
I Lol'd. That would be hilarious.
"..and like children playing after sunset, we were surrounded by darkness." -Ruri Hoshino
Despite the revisions, the Galaxy-R and Galaxy-X are only good for Ramming Speed and Abandon Ship because their explosion radius is larger. I don't really care anyway. Even if it was the Galaxy Arc-R or Arc-X
Despite the revisions, the Galaxy-R and Galaxy-X are only good for Ramming Speed and Abandon Ship because their explosion radius is larger. I don't really care anyway. Even if it was the Galaxy Arc-R or Arc-X
Hehe, this made me giggle.
For my "canon fun build" I bought the doff that adds turn speed bonus and immunity to self damage under ramming speed+brace for impact, just because I am a Betazoid sci character...
I couldn't resist. I've still never used it, I tend to forget ramming speed exists until I'm already trying to get the hell out of dodge and just use it for speed.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
For my "canon fun build" I bought the doff that adds turn speed bonus and immunity to self damage under ramming speed+brace for impact, just because I am a Betazoid sci character...
I couldn't resist. I've still never used it, I tend to forget ramming speed exists until I'm already trying to get the hell out of dodge and just use it for speed.
Another PvP LOL moment was when I had two assault cruisers and a mogai on my backside, and thanks to borg 2 piece set bonus, I went from 30 health to 70 in no time flat. Killed the mogai from FAW again, then set to work on one of the assault cruisers (both fleet btw.) 10 minutes into the battle, I'm hovering around
40-50 health, and kill one of the assault cruisers. I activate attack pattern alpha, tactical fleet, attack pattern omega, and then fire on my mark on the other assault cruiser. Helm! Prepare for ramming speed!. Boom. !00% to 0% health in one attack, which left me around 20%. That was hilarious.
i bielieve that the state of the galaxy in this game is due to a bias, NOT to a dislike like you try so many time to bring to justify a hypothetical bias.
they are strong clue both on the way the ship was implemented and in the ways everyone ( devs, fan ect) speak of it.
the performance of the ship are a fact, but i wouldn't go as far as to said that the bias about it, is.
this is indeed just my opinion, but like i said they are strong indications.
and you don't need to dislike a thing to have a bias on it, these are 2 different things.
1) Performance in Star Trek is rarely a "fact" due to inconsistencies in script writing. One episode the ship is able to do "X", next episode the ship is incapable of doing "X". The script writing has just been that bad that "fact" in Star Trek is pretty much incredulous.
2) Bias has an emotional basis in a persons psyche, like/dislike of something is the most common cause of bias. Because people allege that Gal-R/X are poor performers due to bias, there has to be something behind it. Dislike is the most logical explanation at that point. So saying that they aren't connected is attempting to thread a narrow needle.
look at the scimitar, it is subject of the same bias as the galaxy altrought it is reverse.
gecko state in a podcast that they ( the devs ) have done everything they can to make this ship very good, because in the movie it is displayed as a weapons of doom.
so just like the galaxy, they discarded the tiers implie rules of the game to make a ship outright better ( of worst in the galaxy case ) than other ship in the same tiers.
that is the bias, and you see you don't need a conspiracy or a dislike for it to happened.
just like you said, it is an acknowledgement.
but this "acknowledgement" become a bias at the moment where you discarded the game basis to implement it.
if the scimitar was introduced as a tier6 ship, it would not be a bias then.
if cryptic wanted the galaxy to be outright worst than the sovereign, they should have left it a tier4, here there was no bias.
the performance of the ship being outright worst than the sovi would have been justify by the perceive cannon acknowledgement wich would have bring it in tier4.
at the moment you bring it to the tier5 you have to forget about "cannon evidence" and whatnot and made the ship equal ( as much as possible ) but in a different way.
and i will not accept excuses as " it was bring on due to fan complaign, so you should be happy that you have one".
people at cryptic are adult and mature, they took a descision about it to make it to tier5, they have to assume it to the end.
I never suggested that "you should be happy to have one." I did ask if you would prefer to not have a T5 ship. As far as the fans complaints, I do believe that it was a factor that they rushed it into availability, and that has a lot to do with is poor implementation. Thats not the fans fault, but the dev teams fault for not having the discipline to have proper consideration for all of the ships futures/placements.
again, this is not due to a personal vendetta, or dislike, why do you try to bring that up altrought i said it was not countless time.
a bias is independant to a dislike, you can have both, but they also exist separated just like my example of the scimitar show you.
Because bias is an emotional response, based on feelings that are typically dislikes. It would also take more than one person to push such a bias for it to make it into development. For multiple people to hold a bias there has to be a basis for it. What is your proposed basis for what you call a bias?
if that the case it is even worst than a bias.
it would mean that they don't really plan a role for the ship and just build it on the go with what was available.
Finally, you got my point! But its not just regarding this ship, but especially all the ships put out in the first year or two.
just to remind you, the problem is not just the ensign bo layout but also the turn/inertia/speed, and in the case of the galaxy x, you could add the 3nd tact console missing , 3weapons in the back.
they may have a " weak" project about it but not concerning the intention to limits the general stats of both ship
As far as the turn rate/inertia, I really don't see that as a driver for the problem. It actually makes sense for a larger, exploration vessel to have less maneuverability than the assualt cruiser. The problem is that the game never properly made the use of different crew sizes and differences in hull/hp's have any useful value. Ive said for a while:
Crew size should impact ship repair (hp/debuffs)
Hull hp size should really represent a ship thats tougher to kill. As is, 1-2k hp difference isn't much, but 1-2k damage difference does. Maybe hull hp should have a corresponding hull resistance along with it to further differntiate this factor.
this woudn't be that bad if it was not as an iconic ship of the star trek franchise.
but if that really happened like this, it would show a total disrespect to the ship.
I don't think its disrespect to this (or any) ship as much as a disrespect for the franchise in that they did not manage to plan the impact of layouts that may/are released in ships that weren't available during game launch. The second they started multiple ships, the predecessors became less viable, especially when they started making LTCMDR changes in comparison to earlier ensigns, this make an immediately noticeable impact between earlier ships. Perhaps if thye had just stepped up to moving the second LT slot instead of LTCDR's, it wouldn't have been such a shock to the system. The way they did it made it hard not to notice the differences.
well i wouldn't go as far as to said that the nebula is "such a good" ship but to respond to your question, a bias do not care about logical fact, evidence or context.
so even if i would accept your statement as the nebula is based on the galaxy therefore it should perform in a similar way ( wich i do not, these ship got different role and performances in cannon ),
it is of no consequence to a bias, otherwise it would not be a bias, by definition.
bias is emotionally based. The Nebula not only has the same development base as the Galaxy, but premiered and was frequently shown on TNG. Its as close to kin as the ship can get. It would evoke similar biases, no matter the role.
Remember guys this is with the level 30 Exploration cruiser, and that aux to bat had NO doffs powering it, it was just there cause that boff had it for whatever reason, I dont use Aux 2 bat anymore.
The galaxy cant do dps? Please.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
You miss the entire point of the arguments made over and over again:
Star cruiser and Assault cruiser flat out out tank and dps the galaxy.
Yes, you can make 2 builds (one is crit ap based, the other is plasma buff based) that do considerable damage for the galaxy, but you can do the same builds on ships that are not carrying crippling and arbitrarily distributed disadvantages.
That has always been the whole core of the debate.
You miss the entire point of the arguments made over and over again:
Star cruiser and Assault cruiser flat out out tank and dps the galaxy.
Yes, you can make 2 builds (one is crit ap based, the other is plasma buff based) that do considerable damage for the galaxy, but you can do the same builds on ships that are not carrying crippling and arbitrarily distributed disadvantages.
That has always been the whole core of the debate.
And I will counter you with this, we got optional easily in a PUG Elite STF in which I was the primary aggro tank and the primary DPS.
I think youre missing MY point here. Unless youre chasing E-peen DPS in DPS 20k youre absolutely doing fine.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Comments
Here you go!
It probably depends a lot on the focus of the feedback. If posters are focused on feeding the game imbalance so that more content would be imbalanced(aka balancing the game with all content imbalanced) such as what's happening with everyone demanding all ships be tactical to handle the tactical-demanding gameplay, then the devs definitely would have less of a chance of listening to us. But if the feedback is instead about addressing the core of the issues, then we might have something.
I think that the reason why most posters here didn't get what they wanted was because of that very reason. The devs will not pay attention to suggestions appealing to the imbalance. But they did recognize that the Galaxy needed more strength. So they gave it more - but they gave it more where they wanted its strength to lie - in its tanking ability. That's the role they want for it, and they'll ignore feedback that suggests it give in to the need for every ship to be DPS-heavy.
That said, they're still not addressing the main problem, that is, to balance gameplay where tanks are needed as well. Not to mention the power creep that makes tactical ships tanky enough to handle the content without ships made for tanking. If Cryptic solves those underlying issues, I think we'll be set.
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Because your DPS is low? I'm a sci and my build is not perfected and I do much more then that.
I'm pulling near 15k in groups, and 9-10k on my own.
Perhaps it is time to re-evaluate how you fly the girl instead of the girl herself.
If they devs were ever going to cave now would have been the time.
Personally, I'm glad they didn't cave. The ship is far from broken, people need to learn how to play.
Edit: I may currently be the only person on the planet who is actually planning on possibly using the Gal-X's new uni ensign to slot an eng and mimic the Gal-R boff layout...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Another thing about the D'D (I use and love the ship btw) is people wanted a ship that can do everything, so they got it, but now they complain that they can't focus it into a build because it's too spread out. I personally wouldn't mind having the D'D layout on the galaxy, but people are still going to complain because of the turn rate or the looks or whatever. The real problem with the D'D, Galaxy, Galaxy-x and other iconic ships is that they are so iconic people have their own idea of what the ship should be. Some want a super tac ship, some super science, some want it all so no one is going to be happy no matter what cryptic does.
I think what we really need is more engineering powers, especially at the ensign level.
Sound dating advice.
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Tell you what, why don't we run ISE together and parse the logs separately? Then, depending on the results, you can tell me I'm flying the ship wrong.
:rolleyes:
Look me up if you must, I'll not chase you down just to school you.
I have parses posted all over the forum and people fly with me all the time.
If you need some sort of public humiliation to prove that I out DPS you I will provide it. Plenty of people out there can vouch for my damage.
Is is that hard to accept that perhaps you don't know everything there is to know about flying a Galaxy-R? Just maybe? Or is it just too hard on the ego to realize that an old, crippled lady knows more about the ship then you do?
Edit: I realize you question my parser settings, you mentioned so elsewhere. Under yours I just hit 12,905 dps ISE. Cold, with a build that is not my top end build (I'd have to remember how I did it and retrain the boffs, I don't keep a DPS Galaxy handy just to school nubs, I actually play the game to have fun)
Edit2: Your ego has over ruled your logic. I know my DPS. I know yours. I know your parser settings, so my knowledge is accurate. Competing with me will get you nowhere, the outcome is assured. Perhaps you should practice, or try something different, or maybe ask questions... Simply seeing it first hand to make your ego leave your logic alone is an unnecessary step. Calm down.
Edit3: And if you were to beat me, you would only be proving my point and not yours in the first place, that the Galaxy-R does plenty of DPS... So I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish.,.. Either way I win... Else I don't fight... Sooner you learn that the better...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
@ all: So, the Galaxy revamp is here. It's a universal ensign for the Dread, a 2-piece set bonus that improves tanking and a smooth seperation.
I'm curious to try out the new seperation mechanic and finally see the correct saucer rejoining with my stardrive section
EDIT: Right, I forgot: HANGAR!!!! USE THE FORCE!!!
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Basically, ISE ends up being the only really good benchmark, for stability reasons. It features several different combat types (single target, multi target, controlled fire, large targets, small targets, fast targets, non moving...) and assuming something doesn't go horribly wrong, it spawns the same amount of mobs every time. Also, it tends to be the only one where most people are in range of eachother for parsing the whole time, so people naturally turn to it in game to fly against eachother and see. As such, it has also become the "gold standard" for talk on the forums.
For testing purposes, tho, any event that you can repeat can serve as some sort of benchmark. I often use fleet alerts. That gets odd, as the different NPC's that spawn give differnent results (I'm always lower on Romulans, Borg, and Tholians) and you get people of all levels, but it pops up much faster and is more forgiving of experimental builds. I often use FA for testing and then will hop into ISE to get a more "official" number.
All that being said, your DPS in ISE is... kinda irrelevant. It will be inflated, because you will be able to play to it.
When you take a DPS monster out of ISE... they tend to compare much more similarly to other ships.
I'm not sure I've ever seen anybody break 15k in a FA, and even my low damage ships hover at 10k... the differences in the ships aren't as big as people make them out to be. Sure, people like to argue, and more damage is better then less... but... in this game those levels of damage are unnecessary, outside of PvP, and even then, those big DPS scimmies are not all the rage, too squishy.
Fly what you like, make it work. If you don't like it, fly something else.
Keep at it enough, you end up like me, thousands of dollars in ships and the wisdom that they are all pretty much the same in the end. Even the "best" and the "worst" are not all that much different. They fly. They shoot. They have some tricks. They can all do enough, and the ones that do more, good for them. It's not that much more, unless you are playing to the parser, and then its half illusionary anyway.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Turning the Galaxies into scimis is not the aim.
Making them decent ships is. And if they are outclassed by everything, they are not decent.
Craptic could have been creative and used all the recently developed tech (game engine upgrades are meant here) to re-create the 2 ships. They didn't. They went with a lazy, cheap and dumb cop out. Not to mention that they displayed a thought process that is too far removed from common sense for me to still believe that these people are actually humans. The must be aliens. Dumb, stranded-because-they-ate-their-warp-drive, aliens that collect stuff. Stuff that makes them go....
I kinda' agree on that one. I have no problem flying my Galaxy-R with the current setup, but it would be nice to have some usefull low end engineering Boff ablities that don't trip over each other constantly.
With all due respect, this tread consists some of the most balanced ideas I've ever seen on the forum. In fact, I have never seen a thread regarding any other ships where players suggest such balanced decisions as a fix.
There must be a hundred good and balanced ideas in this thread. Cryptic decided to not listen to or implement any of them, which is disheartening.
Also, don't get me wrong about this, but I find it rather funy that you say "the devs will not pay attention to suggestions appealing to the imbalance" when at the same time those are the same people that released the Scimitar and the Lead Designer himself joked how "OP sells".
I completely agree with this. I'd be perfectly satisfied with the current Galaxy-R if she had a role to fulfill that is relevant in this game.
However I've been here long enough to observe some general directions of the game and I'm at a point where I seriously doubt they'll ever change the basic premise of their game design - DPS.
But the fact that they gave the Galaxy-R more tanking in a game that doesn't require tanks and called it a day is just another sad proof about their view on the Galaxy.
This was the Enterprise-D! This is one of the most iconic ships in the entire franchise and yet in this game it's chained at the bottom of the barrel. The Galaxy doesn't deserve that and as a life long ST fan I'm starting to find it a bit insulting.
I take it you missed the "ideally" part, yes?
Anyway, you do realize that this is Cryptic's idea and not mine, right?
When they released the D'Deridex on Tribble it had the exact same layout as the Galaxy-R. People complained about it and what you see me posting here was Cryptic's answer to those complains. Heck, they even gave it a Ens.Uni as oposed to mine all locked. :rolleyes:
So you've said it yourself, my ideal layout that I know I can only dream about is one that people complain about for being weak and subpar.
Now go and put your head in a bucket of cold water, come back here after and try to tell me with a staright face that I want powercreep. I want to see that.
I'm not sure I mind having an OP Scimitar in the game. It's canon, after all, and I enjoy when the amount of gameplay/story segregation is reduced. Buuuut I do acknowledge that OP is bad for a game, and there does need to be balance somewhere.
I joked on teamspeak last night about how the Scimitar on Star Trek Nemisis was taken out and how funny it would be if the Scimitar and Scimitar variants in-game was susceptible to the same thing, that is, [spoilers] maybe a 20% chance for a boarding party to destroy it instantly [/spoilers]. =p
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lol
LOL!
You should have been there!
I was toying with my PvE galaxy when the fleetmate I have the hardest time beating in PvP asks for someone to test their new build on. I say sure, this will be funny...
He was in his Mobius, PvP build, the one I always curse when I see coming at me. I have a Mobius as well, and we often fight for 40 minutes at a time before one of us gets sloppy and makes a mistake. We are quite well matched, tho he is better then me.
Took him out 4 times with my Gal-R...
With Boarding Parties, no less :P
Paired with doffs and subnuke, I could strip his tac team at the worst possible moment, and let a ton of boarding parties fly right up his tailpipe.
He laughed the first time, and switched back to his proven build. Yeah, he popped me a couple good ones, but I still got him 3 more times.
In a Gal-R...
Speced for PvE...
With boarding parties for crying out loud...
People around here are worse then the Voth and their Doctrine. Galaxy-R sucks, no exeptions. Anything else is heretical.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I Lol'd. That would be hilarious.
Hehe, this made me giggle.
For my "canon fun build" I bought the doff that adds turn speed bonus and immunity to self damage under ramming speed+brace for impact, just because I am a Betazoid sci character...
I couldn't resist. I've still never used it, I tend to forget ramming speed exists until I'm already trying to get the hell out of dodge and just use it for speed.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
40-50 health, and kill one of the assault cruisers. I activate attack pattern alpha, tactical fleet, attack pattern omega, and then fire on my mark on the other assault cruiser. Helm! Prepare for ramming speed!. Boom. !00% to 0% health in one attack, which left me around 20%. That was hilarious.
1) Performance in Star Trek is rarely a "fact" due to inconsistencies in script writing. One episode the ship is able to do "X", next episode the ship is incapable of doing "X". The script writing has just been that bad that "fact" in Star Trek is pretty much incredulous.
2) Bias has an emotional basis in a persons psyche, like/dislike of something is the most common cause of bias. Because people allege that Gal-R/X are poor performers due to bias, there has to be something behind it. Dislike is the most logical explanation at that point. So saying that they aren't connected is attempting to thread a narrow needle.
I never suggested that "you should be happy to have one." I did ask if you would prefer to not have a T5 ship. As far as the fans complaints, I do believe that it was a factor that they rushed it into availability, and that has a lot to do with is poor implementation. Thats not the fans fault, but the dev teams fault for not having the discipline to have proper consideration for all of the ships futures/placements.
Because bias is an emotional response, based on feelings that are typically dislikes. It would also take more than one person to push such a bias for it to make it into development. For multiple people to hold a bias there has to be a basis for it. What is your proposed basis for what you call a bias?
Finally, you got my point! But its not just regarding this ship, but especially all the ships put out in the first year or two.
As far as the turn rate/inertia, I really don't see that as a driver for the problem. It actually makes sense for a larger, exploration vessel to have less maneuverability than the assualt cruiser. The problem is that the game never properly made the use of different crew sizes and differences in hull/hp's have any useful value. Ive said for a while:
Crew size should impact ship repair (hp/debuffs)
Hull hp size should really represent a ship thats tougher to kill. As is, 1-2k hp difference isn't much, but 1-2k damage difference does. Maybe hull hp should have a corresponding hull resistance along with it to further differntiate this factor.
I don't think its disrespect to this (or any) ship as much as a disrespect for the franchise in that they did not manage to plan the impact of layouts that may/are released in ships that weren't available during game launch. The second they started multiple ships, the predecessors became less viable, especially when they started making LTCMDR changes in comparison to earlier ensigns, this make an immediately noticeable impact between earlier ships. Perhaps if thye had just stepped up to moving the second LT slot instead of LTCDR's, it wouldn't have been such a shock to the system. The way they did it made it hard not to notice the differences.
bias is emotionally based. The Nebula not only has the same development base as the Galaxy, but premiered and was frequently shown on TNG. Its as close to kin as the ship can get. It would evoke similar biases, no matter the role.
Im being honest. The Galaxy does damage just fine.
To Kimmym: 12k or so DPS? Not bad. I can make a level 30 version do about 8-9. I for one believe you.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
http://i.imgur.com/iF0x7NJ.jpg
VICTORY!
http://i.imgur.com/DgPWTdV.jpg
Parse results (died once late, i was over 8500, but thats what happens when you forget you have 20k less hull than your main ship, oops)
http://i.imgur.com/pRCOftX.jpg
Remember guys this is with the level 30 Exploration cruiser, and that aux to bat had NO doffs powering it, it was just there cause that boff had it for whatever reason, I dont use Aux 2 bat anymore.
The galaxy cant do dps? Please.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
You miss the entire point of the arguments made over and over again:
Star cruiser and Assault cruiser flat out out tank and dps the galaxy.
Yes, you can make 2 builds (one is crit ap based, the other is plasma buff based) that do considerable damage for the galaxy, but you can do the same builds on ships that are not carrying crippling and arbitrarily distributed disadvantages.
That has always been the whole core of the debate.
And I will counter you with this, we got optional easily in a PUG Elite STF in which I was the primary aggro tank and the primary DPS.
I think youre missing MY point here. Unless youre chasing E-peen DPS in DPS 20k youre absolutely doing fine.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus