As an Aside, it's really a shame that the Feds can't use ship cloaks in canon, considering that they are the only faction with a legitimate peaceful potential use for a Cloak: saving civilizations from extinction (And not looking like a bunch of *******s). Seeing as the oh-so-sacrosanct Prime Directive prohibits them from providing aid in the event that exposure to Federation Technology would influence a primitive civilization basically turns extinction events into a popcorn fest for Starfleet currently, having a Cloak would allow them to rectify this bit of hypocritical bull-*ahem*
Now, I can already see you all arguing that to save them would be interfering, even if one goes undetected, blah-blah-blah...
But really, interfere, or don't interfere, we have no way of knowing which one it the "Intended" solution until the future version of Temporal Investigations turns up on our doorstep and tries to erase us from history.
I, personally, don't think that Extinction is part of the "Natural Development" of a culture. Generally, it's Extermination carried out by other cultures. Which makes me wonder if there are lobbyists in Starfleet trying to get the Prime Directive loosened.
STO in a shellnut. "I always hope for the best. Experience, unfortunately, has taught me to expect the worst."
-Elim Garak
It is really getting tiresome to hear Starfleet Players whine about getting what the other factions have. When the Klingons had Carriers starfleet whined until they got carriers too. Now its cloaks.
What Starfleet Players SHOULD be complaining about is Cryptic/PWE's failure to develop new and improved STARFLEET weapons and equipment. Intead of improving phasers, photon torpedos, quantum torpedos we use our enemies weapons and equipment? Looks at us, using Tholian equipment/ weapons, Voth equipment/weapons, KDF equipment/weapons. Where are THE IMPROVEMENTS TO OUR OWN GEAR????? Is it that Star Trek Online's Starfleet so inferior we must use everyone else's weapons to compete?
And yes, I fly Starfleet as my main toon. No I do not want a cloak. I want new Starfleet equipment that will allow mw to detect cloaked ships. That's balance. I want improved STARFLEET weapons and equipment intead of using Romulan, KDF, Tholian, and Voth weapons and equipment because they are more effective.
THIS. I agree with this wholeheartedly. Even if it would mean me having to buy all new Fleet Fed Phaser Weapons. (I use Phaser weapons because it's what I can get consoles for, and it just feels right)
STO in a shellnut. "I always hope for the best. Experience, unfortunately, has taught me to expect the worst."
-Elim Garak
As an Aside, it's really a shame that the Feds can't use ship cloaks in canon, considering that they are the only faction with a legitimate peaceful potential use for a Cloak: saving civilizations from extinction (And not looking like a bunch of *******s). Seeing as the oh-so-sacrosanct Prime Directive prohibits them from providing aid in the event that exposure to Federation Technology would influence a primitive civilization basically turns extinction events into a popcorn fest for Starfleet currently, having a Cloak would allow them to rectify this bit of hypocritical bull-*ahem*
Now, I can already see you all arguing that to save them would be interfering, even if one goes undetected, blah-blah-blah...
But really, interfere, or don't interfere, we have no way of knowing which one it the "Intended" solution until the future version of Temporal Investigations turns up on our doorstep and tries to erase us from history.
I, personally, don't think that Extinction is part of the "Natural Development" of a culture. Generally, it's Extermination carried out by other cultures. Which makes me wonder if there are lobbyists in Starfleet trying to get the Prime Directive loosened.
I just have to ask. Just what 'saving" do you see on STO? There is very little. And even less diplomacy. We go in, we kill everyone, and we leave.
It is really getting tiresome to hear Starfleet Players whine about getting what the other factions have. When the Klingons had Carriers starfleet whined until they got carriers too. Now its cloaks.
What Starfleet Players SHOULD be complaining about is Cryptic/PWE's failure to develop new and improved STARFLEET weapons and equipment. Intead of improving phasers, photon torpedos, quantum torpedos we use our enemies weapons and equipment? Looks at us, using Tholian equipment/ weapons, Voth equipment/weapons, KDF equipment/weapons. Where are THE IMPROVEMENTS TO OUR OWN GEAR????? Is it that Star Trek Online's Starfleet so inferior we must use everyone else's weapons to compete?
And yes, I fly Starfleet as my main toon. No I do not want a cloak. I want new Starfleet equipment that will allow mw to detect cloaked ships. That's balance. I want improved STARFLEET weapons and equipment intead of using Romulan, KDF, Tholian, and Voth weapons and equipment because they are more effective.
Oh my god I think I'm in love. All this is what I have been saying. More counters less copying
The problem with the raptor has nothing to do with the lack of BC, it has to do with the fact it has all the same turn stats as the defiant but actually turns slower due to the geometry of the ship and where the turn axis is located on the ship. THe defiant and most fed ships have a center turn axis because the way most def ships are made they are more or less elliptical. So the distance from the front to back is uniform. The raptor is a triangle with the turn axis more towards the back so while it can turn the same amount of degrees as the lets say a defiant because the front is far out their it has long distance to get on target. Easiest way to explain this is take a sheet of paper draw a 90 degree angle with legs that are 3 inches each. Now at 1.5" from the angle draw an arc from one leg to another and at 2.5 inches draw another arc from one leg to anther. Both of those arcs cover 90 degrees but if you measure the arcs the one at 1.5" is shorter than the the one at 2.5" that is the distance that a raptor has to cover for targetting as opposed to the defiant
THe link below shows anot to scale representation of the issues witht eh raptor and its cruiser like turning woes though it has the same turning as most escorts in the game.
It is really getting tiresome to hear Starfleet Players whine about getting what the other factions have. When the Klingons had Carriers starfleet whined until they got carriers too. Now its cloaks.
What Starfleet Players SHOULD be complaining about is Cryptic/PWE's failure to develop new and improved STARFLEET weapons and equipment. Intead of improving phasers, photon torpedos, quantum torpedos we use our enemies weapons and equipment? Looks at us, using Tholian equipment/ weapons, Voth equipment/weapons, KDF equipment/weapons. Where are THE IMPROVEMENTS TO OUR OWN GEAR????? Is it that Star Trek Online's Starfleet so inferior we must use everyone else's weapons to compete?
You Sir are a shining beacon of reason and a beautifull example that not all Federation players are whiners without the concept for fair, faction diversity or what's healthy for this game.
And yes, I fly Starfleet as my main toon. No I do not want a cloak. I want new Starfleet equipment that will allow mw to detect cloaked ships. That's balance. I want improved STARFLEET weapons and equipment intead of using Romulan, KDF, Tholian, and Voth weapons and equipment because they are more effective.
Thank you so much for saying this. That's what I've been saying the entire time in this thread.
If the OP, but even more Teron focused this thread more around "give Fed ships innate ability to detect cloak" or sth. similar, not only there wouldn't be so many KDF players aggresively screaming "NO" supported by many reasonable Fed players, but furthermore I think that those same people would stand behind that idea. I know I would.
Instead, they made it about the cloak yet again. Especially silly after having a Dev. explain in details about the reason behind the decision to divide the benefits of cloaking between the 3 factions.
Regarding additional methods of detecting/decloaking cloaked ships. . .I would like to point out that there's plenty of these. Some of them spammable. Heck, just have 1-2 guys constantly spreading Warp Plasma all over the place. Or lay lots of mines, that's a very effective way of making a combat zone extremely hazardous to cloaked ships, especially Birds of Prey. Then there's Sensor Scan that will usually reveal every cloaked vessel within 5 km, more if you're specc'd into sensors and whatnot.
I could go on, but suffice to say. . .there's a lot of anti-cloaking options out there. Feddies just don't use them enough. It took the advent of the Romulans with battlecloaks out the wazoo for more people to start anti-cloaking.
Regarding additional methods of detecting/decloaking cloaked ships. . .I would like to point out that there's plenty of these. Some of them spammable. Heck, just have 1-2 guys constantly spreading Warp Plasma all over the place. Or lay lots of mines, that's a very effective way of making a combat zone extremely hazardous to cloaked ships, especially Birds of Prey. Then there's Sensor Scan that will usually reveal every cloaked vessel within 5 km, more if you're specc'd into sensors and whatnot.
I could go on, but suffice to say. . .there's a lot of anti-cloaking options out there. Feddies just don't use them enough. It took the advent of the Romulans with battlecloaks out the wazoo for more people to start anti-cloaking.
i have found that to be very common among feds. there have been many powerful builds kdf side that have been nerfed because feds whined that they were op when in reality no one wanted to change their build to counter it
i have found that to be very common among feds. there have been many powerful builds kdf side that have been nerfed because feds whined that they were op when in reality no one wanted to change their build to counter it
Indeed. It's easy to detect, or decloak someone. Many many ways. Hell, probably why Feds got both the tier 3 and tier 5 Nebula, plus the Emission Seeking Torpedo. 2 'snooper' consoles, 1 decloaking console right there.
BUT
There has never been consoles that give you huge amounts of stealth or anything though. and speccing into the Stealth skill? Ha, that is expensive and nearly pointless. Only using a Rom or Nausicaan BOFF is really worth using to boost stealth, and even that doesn't stack anymore.
I bet if there was though, people would whine to high heaven.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Heh, I'm one of those weirdoes then-my feds spec into sensors and my KDF specs into stealth, and I've been aware of and an advocate for dissemination of, anti-cloaking techniques ranging from the simple (use your ears and learn the sounds) to the complex.
then again, I'm also one of those weirdoes who ques for KvK in a vain hope of someday getting a match with people I don't already know...
Well, my point is that it is much easier to detect for stealthed opponents than it is to actually try and be stealthy if you just try even a decent amount. Partially why MES is so rarely used, you can hardly spec for stealth to get it to any useful enough level. Or if you do, you've given up a LOT just to get to that point.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Indeed. It's easy to detect, or decloak someone. Many many ways. Hell, probably why Feds got both the tier 3 and tier 5 Nebula, plus the Emission Seeking Torpedo. 2 'snooper' consoles, 1 decloaking console right there.
I've come to the conclusion that people in this game want to have their cake and eat it too, and when that's not possible they whine to Cryptic to high heavens.
The things you mentioned here are a fine example, there are various methods, devices and specs to boost the anti-cloaking capabilities of the ship. The thing is though - people don't want to "waste" skill points, Boff abilities or consoles for such "nonesence". We know that we must stuff our ship with "moar" DPS and tactial consoles and everything else is unnecessary. :rolleyes: I'm sure you've seen the threads around here complaining a ship has "only" 3 tactical consoles (and we're not talking about escort here) or requesting Comm.Tactical Boff slots on science ships and crusiers.
And then, when they get their posteriors handed to them because they couldn't notice the odd BoP or warbird they don't ever consider challenging and changing their build - it's straight to the forums and complain to Cryptic how cloak is OP, BoPs are OP, etc.
And I know there are good players that know all of this, that don't come here and complain, but unfortunately they are overshadowed by a majority of what I call 'lazy' gamers who want everything given to them on a silver platter.
That's why I mentioned innate cloak-detection mechanism for Fed. ships, in hopes that when people whine their way into this, they at least whine their way into something that will be different and not equalize the factions in another area yet again.
There has never been consoles that give you huge amounts of stealth or anything though. and speccing into the Stealth skill? Ha, that is expensive and nearly pointless. Only using a Rom or Nausicaan BOFF is really worth using to boost stealth, and even that doesn't stack anymore.
Just wondering if you happen to know, I know they don't stack but is this a rule for Boffs of same species or general one? For ex. - I know that having 2 Nausicaans or 2 Romulans will not stack stealth, but will 1 Nausicaan + 1 Romulan stack?
Just wondering if you happen to know, I know they don't stack but is this a rule for Boffs of same species or general one? For ex. - I know that having 2 Nausicaans or 2 Romulans will not stack stealth, but will 1 Nausicaan + 1 Romulan stack?
that's trait dependent, not species dependent...since nausicaans and romulans have different traits, they should still stack; just multiples of the same trait won't
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
that's trait dependent, not species dependent...since nausicaans and romulans have different traits, they should still stack; just multiples of the same trait won't
No.
Stealth bonuses from any BOFF trait no longer stack at all. None of them.
When they fixed the Pirate trait, they changed it to be this way.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Using a Nebula to detect cloaked ships does work well, however, doing so requires teamwork with other teammates to be effective. The biggest problem is a great deal of Fed' players, especially in pug groups don't do teamwork. I've pretty much shelved my cloak finding Neb' build because of it. Whot good is it to detect them if nothing is done about it?
Using a Nebula to detect cloaked ships does work well, however, doing so requires teamwork with other teammates to be effective. The biggest problem is a great deal of Fed' players, especially in pug groups don't do teamwork. I've pretty much shelved my cloak finding Neb' build because of it. Whot good is it to detect them if nothing is done about it?
Have not taken my fleet neb into any pvp in awhile because she needs support and that is very rare to find fed side. I final just the other day took the detection console out of inventory and put it in the bank to collect dust. If feds stayed in a group of 4 or 5 on a large map like kerrat or a cap n hold then it would be worth it - but that rarely happens.
Comments
Ok, its useless, then ?
There are a lot of useless consoles in this game.
Why should this be the one to be ABSOLUTELY refit ?
FED DON'T USE CLOAKING DEVICES, deal with it.
Do you want cloaking ships ?
Then get a KDF or ROM toon.
I know the Battle Cloak is one of the best things in this game, but FED don't use cloak.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Now, I can already see you all arguing that to save them would be interfering, even if one goes undetected, blah-blah-blah...
But really, interfere, or don't interfere, we have no way of knowing which one it the "Intended" solution until the future version of Temporal Investigations turns up on our doorstep and tries to erase us from history.
I, personally, don't think that Extinction is part of the "Natural Development" of a culture. Generally, it's Extermination carried out by other cultures. Which makes me wonder if there are lobbyists in Starfleet trying to get the Prime Directive loosened.
"I always hope for the best. Experience, unfortunately, has taught me to expect the worst."
-Elim Garak
What Starfleet Players SHOULD be complaining about is Cryptic/PWE's failure to develop new and improved STARFLEET weapons and equipment. Intead of improving phasers, photon torpedos, quantum torpedos we use our enemies weapons and equipment? Looks at us, using Tholian equipment/ weapons, Voth equipment/weapons, KDF equipment/weapons. Where are THE IMPROVEMENTS TO OUR OWN GEAR????? Is it that Star Trek Online's Starfleet so inferior we must use everyone else's weapons to compete?
And yes, I fly Starfleet as my main toon. No I do not want a cloak. I want new Starfleet equipment that will allow mw to detect cloaked ships. That's balance. I want improved STARFLEET weapons and equipment intead of using Romulan, KDF, Tholian, and Voth weapons and equipment because they are more effective.
THIS. I agree with this wholeheartedly. Even if it would mean me having to buy all new Fleet Fed Phaser Weapons. (I use Phaser weapons because it's what I can get consoles for, and it just feels right)
"I always hope for the best. Experience, unfortunately, has taught me to expect the worst."
-Elim Garak
I just have to ask. Just what 'saving" do you see on STO? There is very little. And even less diplomacy. We go in, we kill everyone, and we leave.
Note the "IN CANON" bit.
"I always hope for the best. Experience, unfortunately, has taught me to expect the worst."
-Elim Garak
Oh my god I think I'm in love. All this is what I have been saying. More counters less copying
THe link below shows anot to scale representation of the issues witht eh raptor and its cruiser like turning woes though it has the same turning as most escorts in the game.
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa162/jrumann59/Drawing1_zpscf5a0566.jpg
You Sir are a shining beacon of reason and a beautifull example that not all Federation players are whiners without the concept for fair, faction diversity or what's healthy for this game.
I sincerely commend you for this.
Thank you so much for saying this. That's what I've been saying the entire time in this thread.
If the OP, but even more Teron focused this thread more around "give Fed ships innate ability to detect cloak" or sth. similar, not only there wouldn't be so many KDF players aggresively screaming "NO" supported by many reasonable Fed players, but furthermore I think that those same people would stand behind that idea. I know I would.
Instead, they made it about the cloak yet again. Especially silly after having a Dev. explain in details about the reason behind the decision to divide the benefits of cloaking between the 3 factions.
I could go on, but suffice to say. . .there's a lot of anti-cloaking options out there. Feddies just don't use them enough. It took the advent of the Romulans with battlecloaks out the wazoo for more people to start anti-cloaking.
i have found that to be very common among feds. there have been many powerful builds kdf side that have been nerfed because feds whined that they were op when in reality no one wanted to change their build to counter it
Indeed. It's easy to detect, or decloak someone. Many many ways. Hell, probably why Feds got both the tier 3 and tier 5 Nebula, plus the Emission Seeking Torpedo. 2 'snooper' consoles, 1 decloaking console right there.
BUT
There has never been consoles that give you huge amounts of stealth or anything though. and speccing into the Stealth skill? Ha, that is expensive and nearly pointless. Only using a Rom or Nausicaan BOFF is really worth using to boost stealth, and even that doesn't stack anymore.
I bet if there was though, people would whine to high heaven.
Well, my point is that it is much easier to detect for stealthed opponents than it is to actually try and be stealthy if you just try even a decent amount. Partially why MES is so rarely used, you can hardly spec for stealth to get it to any useful enough level. Or if you do, you've given up a LOT just to get to that point.
I've come to the conclusion that people in this game want to have their cake and eat it too, and when that's not possible they whine to Cryptic to high heavens.
The things you mentioned here are a fine example, there are various methods, devices and specs to boost the anti-cloaking capabilities of the ship. The thing is though - people don't want to "waste" skill points, Boff abilities or consoles for such "nonesence". We know that we must stuff our ship with "moar" DPS and tactial consoles and everything else is unnecessary. :rolleyes: I'm sure you've seen the threads around here complaining a ship has "only" 3 tactical consoles (and we're not talking about escort here) or requesting Comm.Tactical Boff slots on science ships and crusiers.
And then, when they get their posteriors handed to them because they couldn't notice the odd BoP or warbird they don't ever consider challenging and changing their build - it's straight to the forums and complain to Cryptic how cloak is OP, BoPs are OP, etc.
And I know there are good players that know all of this, that don't come here and complain, but unfortunately they are overshadowed by a majority of what I call 'lazy' gamers who want everything given to them on a silver platter.
That's why I mentioned innate cloak-detection mechanism for Fed. ships, in hopes that when people whine their way into this, they at least whine their way into something that will be different and not equalize the factions in another area yet again.
Just wondering if you happen to know, I know they don't stack but is this a rule for Boffs of same species or general one? For ex. - I know that having 2 Nausicaans or 2 Romulans will not stack stealth, but will 1 Nausicaan + 1 Romulan stack?
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
No.
Stealth bonuses from any BOFF trait no longer stack at all. None of them.
When they fixed the Pirate trait, they changed it to be this way.
Have not taken my fleet neb into any pvp in awhile because she needs support and that is very rare to find fed side. I final just the other day took the detection console out of inventory and put it in the bank to collect dust. If feds stayed in a group of 4 or 5 on a large map like kerrat or a cap n hold then it would be worth it - but that rarely happens.
I prayed that this thread would die. Why did anyone say anything!
Cloaking would not fix the Galaxy X in most people's eyes
The Defiant is a powerful escort without cloak
And the Revengeanceinator is a weird thing that really should have been more planned out for both factions
Only problem is...I'm a Romulan.
And before you say it, no I do not use warbirds so it's currently not possible for me to get that console.