Hahaha. And herein lies the crux of the matter, and why this thread is so useless. "We" don't get to settle anything. Whatever, or whoever think you are, whatever you think you're entitled to, game design issues are not up to you, or pretty much anyone in this thread. They're up to no one but the devs. And the devs have already decided: no battlecloak / innate cloak for Feds.
So, as a fed you can go play with your cruiser commands, 5 tac console escorts, kumaris and vestas; and like it. Or you can go play some other game.
You do realize that not many people actually use the Kumari or Vesta right? Outside of the small number of Fed PvP players out there. I honestly cant remember the last time I saw a Kumari, its been at least five or six weeks. You might see one or two Vesta over the course of a day.
Still don't get the KDF obsession with Fed science ships as we don't use them ourselves lol.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
well...maybe if you learned how to use them, you'd be using them...or if...y'know, sci powers actually worked on NPC's you'd use them?
Not just grav well, but the other sci powers too. but that's really another entire discussion-the difference in the mechanics between what's good PvE (DPS Racing) and good PvP (a lot more complex subject. lots of things work on players, but don't even scratch NPC's or hinder them in any way, whatsoever-they're just bundles of hit points with no intelligence guiding them...debuffs don't work because they don't buff, when Donatra cloaks, no de-cloaking power can stop her because she doesn't use the same mechanics, SNB/viral matrix/tyken's rift/targeting subsystems really doesn't do anything to the unimatrix ships in Hive, etc.)
I'm at Earth Starbase right now, and looking around I see about 15% are Odyssey, 30% Sovereign, 40% Warbirds of various sorts and 15% assorted.
I'm not arguing with you that the Sci can be effective out of PvP, I have a Tac/Sci hybrid Tal Shiar Adapted Cruiser that I enjoy quite a bit. Fed players in general just don't care for it. It could be a matter of most Fed players seeing Sci ships being synonymous with PvP play and avoid them for that reason. Or it could be they just enjoy pew pew pew cannon play.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Just a couple of questions firstly its a cloaking DEVICE so why do we have to slot it in a console slot and not a DEVICE slot? And secondly in TNG we see both the standard galaxy class star ship and its future variant (Galaxy X) using one, but in game only the galaxy x can make use of it. And the defiant class from DS9. My point is if the can cloak a galaxy class then surely some of the smaller ships should be able to make use of it.
Hahaha. And herein lies the crux of the matter, and why this thread is so useless. "We" don't get to settle anything. Whatever, or whoever think you are, whatever you think you're entitled to, game design issues are not up to you, or pretty much anyone in this thread. They're up to no one but the devs. And the devs have already decided: no battlecloak / innate cloak for Feds.
So, as a fed you can go play with your cruiser commands, 5 tac console escorts, kumaris and vestas; and like it. Or you can go play some other game.
I hope this wasn't directed at me specifically saying I want the feds to get have a innate cloak cause I'm against it 100% ..
People (well 1 specific person) are calling for balancing of the game which I agree and accept ..
What I don't agree with is with how they want the balance to be .. they want their ships untouched cept to get innate cloaks while denying the kdf boosts in their stats to match their equal counterparts ..
Can't have something for nothing these days so either they pony up their stats to match the kdf *for cloaking reasons* or they let the kdf have their ships match those 3 particular ships and make it an even playing field.
I hope this wasn't directed at me specifically saying I want the feds to get have a innate cloak cause I'm against it 100% ..
People (well 1 specific person) are calling for balancing of the game which I agree and accept ..
What I don't agree with is with how they want the balance to be .. they want their ships untouched cept to get innate cloaks while denying the kdf boosts in their stats to match their equal counterparts ..
Can't have something for nothing these days so either they pony up their stats to match the kdf *for cloaking reasons* or they let the kdf have their ships match those 3 particular ships and make it an even playing field.
I'm not against the KDF getting boosts if they are needed. I just haven't yet seen anything while playing on the KDF side that sticks out like quite so sore of a thumb as the Cloaking console the Federation has.
People cite various ships that need buffs to their base stats to allow them to remain balanced with Fed getting innate failcloak, such as the Raptor. I think they have gotten a rather nice buff thanks to the KDF unique Flank damage bonus, which Fed can only get though a Breen Raider (though arguably I think last summer's prize ship should get that as well, not like anyone uses that either).
If KDF ships are lacking in stats, it must be on a level that only someone who crunches the numbers to the decimal point or plays very *very* competitively would notice, as I have yet to play with any tier 5 KDF ship and find it to be lacking to the extent of the Failcloak.
It would be like needing a Universal Console for the new Flank damage buff, or while allowing innate battle cloak for BoP's, requiring a console to unlock the Enhanced Battle Cloak (such as the Scimitar's cloaked barrage).
Its not a stat issue that effects the ships numbers as much as its an operational issue that affects the ships options.
It really and truly is a one of a kind unique situation.
but when people speak of balance, I already see it to allow innate cloak.
Lets compare the Defiant to the Qin, just in terms of raw base operations.
The Defiant is all around a better built ship. Its tougher, stronger, and faster. Not surprising as it was built to fight Cube's and win (note that it failed in this regard). The Qin however is a heavy escort, designed to be more powerful than a Raider but cheaper than a Battle cruiser.
These are two very different ships designed to do very different things. Their only common point being their size and base function. To compare them is like comparing Baseball to Cricket. They only appear to be similar to people that don't understand the mechanics.
The KDF Do have a ship that's equal to the Defiant though, and that's the Scourge, with the Scourge coming up one Sci over the Defiant's one Tac. The Fleet versions even having identical turn rates, but the Scourge having a better Boff layout in the long run.
So the chart should be, at least in my mind to compare Fed to KDF
Defiant/Scourge
Avenger/Mogh
Galaxy X/Guramba
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
As the game progresses and new things are added, sadly we see old ones fall to the wayside. The Universal Console Cloaking Device is probably the most obvious and painful example of this issue. It?s become nearly impossible to use in any efficient manner outside of onetime use ambushes.
That being said, I don?t think it?s unsalvageable. It really wouldn?t take much to update this into an effective tool.
Only three ships are able to equip it, and all three are basically pure warships. So, shouldn?t this component reflect that fact?
An easy way to boost its value would be to change it from a Universal Console to a Device, you know, reflecting the name itself. There are already a few non-consumable devices in the game, one that even functions very similarly to a Cloaking Device. This would free up valuable console space on the few ships than can use it. Ships that don?t have much spare room in the Console department if you want to play competitively.
A second reasonable option is what people have been asking for quite some time. To update the Universal Console Cloaking Device to a Battle Cloak. Again, only three ships can use this, so its not exactly game breaking, especially if it remains as a Console. It adds a layer of versatility but still comes at a cost.
The third option would be to make a Fleet grade version that IS a Battle Cloak. This would give further incentive for people to join and build up a Fleet to its final tier levels. It would also be realistic when you consider how technology advances by leaps and bounds during war, standard grade equipment is modified and improved over time.
I suppose a fourth option could be to have a Reputation Project that allows you to refit a Universal Console Cloaking Device to a Universal Console Battle Cloaking Device. It would have to be Tier 5 of course, and require a Universal Console Cloaking Device be used as a token of payment. That way Cryptic would still get their money as people have to buy a Galaxy X or Defiant Retrofit to get it.
The third and fourth options would be most promising I believe, especially with the Romulan?s having entered into things. They have always been the most technologically advanced faction (outside the Borg or similar races) and Cloaking has always been there specialty, so perhaps something through the Embassy if not Reputation?
Anyone have thoughts or ideas on this matter?
if the feds get battle cloaks, cryptic may aswell delete the kdf faction feds are molly coddled enough as it is....what next somehow feds should have kdf ships??
Just as soon as the KDF raptor series gets a buff pass at both standard and fleet levels, including a five tac console variant, since it has been clarified that Raptors do suffer for having integrated cloaking.
Cant remove the Defiants false handicap and leave the Raptors with real handicaps. It wouldnt be balanced.
Just as soon as the KDF raptor series gets a buff pass at both standard and fleet levels, including a five tac console variant, since it has been clarified that Raptors do suffer for having integrated cloaking.
Cant remove the Defiants false handicap and leave the Raptors with real handicaps. It wouldnt be balanced.
Fine with me. Do not care. You can have your thing if I can have mine.
Just as soon as the KDF raptor series gets a buff pass at both standard and fleet levels, including a five tac console variant, since it has been clarified that Raptors do suffer for having integrated cloaking.
Cant remove the Defiants false handicap and leave the Raptors with real handicaps. It wouldnt be balanced.
Raptors are soon to get their flanking bonus, which I don't believe the Defiant will have.
I do agree there should be a 5 tac console Raptor though.
Only Raiders get flanking.
What ever Dev created escort specific mechanic is created in the future will most likely include Raptors.
According to the post:
Our goal is to use the Plesh Brek's Flanking ability as a prototype to fine to tune it before eventually rolling it out to Klingon Raiders along with some other minor improvements to these ships. It should be noted that Klingon Raiders will receive a slightly weaker version Flanking bonus (+25% instead of the Plesh Brek's +33%).
Its not an escort mechanic, its a Raider exclusive mechanic, meaning aside from the Plesh Brek, this is going to be a KDF exclusive ability, Federation wont be getting it.
Not that we mind as its difficult to maneuver a Cruiser behind someone without Subspace jump.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Our goal is to use the Plesh Brek's Flanking ability as a prototype to fine to tune it before eventually rolling it out to Klingon Raiders along with some other minor improvements to these ships. It should be noted that Klingon Raiders will receive a slightly weaker version Flanking bonus (+25% instead of the Plesh Brek's +33%).
Its not an escort mechanic, its a Raider exclusive mechanic, meaning aside from the Plesh Brek, this is going to be a KDF exclusive ability, Federation wont be getting it.
Not that we mind as its difficult to maneuver a Cruiser behind someone without Subspace jump.
Never said they where.
What I said is Raiders will get it AND what ever ESCORT game mechanic is CREATED will most likely also be given to Raptors.
Note also that there is no announced deadline for the transition, which gives the devs a near-infinite amount of time to conduct testing and determine their conclusions before making the transition.
Now, based on the Cruiser Powers mechanic, It's probably going to be 2-3 months. (that's the amount of time that the Avenger had 3 out of 4 cruiser auras before they released all four and shifted the mechanic to all cruiser/Battlecruiser models)
and recall that while the Developers said "there are no plans at this time" for a Federation Raider, doesn't mean that there won't be one rolled out in 2-3 months. simply thus: if it works well and proves popular, they'd be idiots NOT to do a Fed Raider, and by giving themselves no hard deadline on general release, they have enough time to MAKE it work well.
In my opinion they would be idiots to create fed raiders. The feds have no place for such a vessel in their peace keeping armada and such a designation is against their ethos.
Whom shall they raid upon in the interests of peaceful exploration?
Oh really, so do tell when exactly was a Klingon Bird-of-Prey ever called a raider?
I will be waiting ...
(Note: I can find a Federation Raider with real canon evidence)
In STO they are classified as Raiders for the BoP line of vessels. Its the only listing of such aname as cannon refers to them as warships or just Birds of Prey.
I have never seen any Raider class mentioned for the federation though there is such a vessel as a Terran raider, whch is not the federation as we know it or the federation played in STO.
None of which dilutes my statement of why the Federation has no need for a raider class of vessel since the Feds are not the Terran Empire.
If Starfleet players get their wish they would become the Terran Empire over night.
Then you would not be Starfleet though your hypocrasy to the IP Gene created would remain.
I guess its true. The real Star Trek fans died out years ago since some on this page certainly have no idea what the UFP and Star Fleet where about.
How funny how often the Klingon Empire is condemned for being barbaric warmongers and unhonorable in action, or how the Romulans are the epitomy of deciet yet so many so called fefs wish to be just like them and worse.
lol. I can read Memory Alpha too.
It lists all the raiders of the IP. Of which none are federation raiders. The Maquis ship is a peregrine fighter. The Bajoran raider is a glorified shuttle. Even Bashirs ship was a glorified attack fighter.
Still no flip flop as I never said the raider was a KDF designation. I said and still say, the Federation has no place, use or need for a raider class in the IP or STO.
Even the IP supports this as no Fed raider exists.
Comments
Two of the three things he listed are PvE based not PvP. (Smash objectives , getting the optional ) and "saving the Kirks" can apply to both.
You do realize that not many people actually use the Kumari or Vesta right? Outside of the small number of Fed PvP players out there. I honestly cant remember the last time I saw a Kumari, its been at least five or six weeks. You might see one or two Vesta over the course of a day.
Still don't get the KDF obsession with Fed science ships as we don't use them ourselves lol.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
I'm at Earth Starbase right now, and looking around I see about 15% are Odyssey, 30% Sovereign, 40% Warbirds of various sorts and 15% assorted.
I'm not arguing with you that the Sci can be effective out of PvP, I have a Tac/Sci hybrid Tal Shiar Adapted Cruiser that I enjoy quite a bit. Fed players in general just don't care for it. It could be a matter of most Fed players seeing Sci ships being synonymous with PvP play and avoid them for that reason. Or it could be they just enjoy pew pew pew cannon play.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
I hope this wasn't directed at me specifically saying I want the feds to get have a innate cloak cause I'm against it 100% ..
People (well 1 specific person) are calling for balancing of the game which I agree and accept ..
What I don't agree with is with how they want the balance to be .. they want their ships untouched cept to get innate cloaks while denying the kdf boosts in their stats to match their equal counterparts ..
Can't have something for nothing these days so either they pony up their stats to match the kdf *for cloaking reasons* or they let the kdf have their ships match those 3 particular ships and make it an even playing field.
I'm not against the KDF getting boosts if they are needed. I just haven't yet seen anything while playing on the KDF side that sticks out like quite so sore of a thumb as the Cloaking console the Federation has.
People cite various ships that need buffs to their base stats to allow them to remain balanced with Fed getting innate failcloak, such as the Raptor. I think they have gotten a rather nice buff thanks to the KDF unique Flank damage bonus, which Fed can only get though a Breen Raider (though arguably I think last summer's prize ship should get that as well, not like anyone uses that either).
If KDF ships are lacking in stats, it must be on a level that only someone who crunches the numbers to the decimal point or plays very *very* competitively would notice, as I have yet to play with any tier 5 KDF ship and find it to be lacking to the extent of the Failcloak.
It would be like needing a Universal Console for the new Flank damage buff, or while allowing innate battle cloak for BoP's, requiring a console to unlock the Enhanced Battle Cloak (such as the Scimitar's cloaked barrage).
Its not a stat issue that effects the ships numbers as much as its an operational issue that affects the ships options.
It really and truly is a one of a kind unique situation.
but when people speak of balance, I already see it to allow innate cloak.
Lets compare the Defiant to the Qin, just in terms of raw base operations.
The Defiant is all around a better built ship. Its tougher, stronger, and faster. Not surprising as it was built to fight Cube's and win (note that it failed in this regard). The Qin however is a heavy escort, designed to be more powerful than a Raider but cheaper than a Battle cruiser.
These are two very different ships designed to do very different things. Their only common point being their size and base function. To compare them is like comparing Baseball to Cricket. They only appear to be similar to people that don't understand the mechanics.
The KDF Do have a ship that's equal to the Defiant though, and that's the Scourge, with the Scourge coming up one Sci over the Defiant's one Tac. The Fleet versions even having identical turn rates, but the Scourge having a better Boff layout in the long run.
So the chart should be, at least in my mind to compare Fed to KDF
Defiant/Scourge
Avenger/Mogh
Galaxy X/Guramba
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
if the feds get battle cloaks, cryptic may aswell delete the kdf faction feds are molly coddled enough as it is....what next somehow feds should have kdf ships??
Cant remove the Defiants false handicap and leave the Raptors with real handicaps. It wouldnt be balanced.
R.I.P
Fine with me. Do not care. You can have your thing if I can have mine.
But the Romulans get nothing. NOTHING! :mad:
Raptors are soon to get their flanking bonus, which I don't believe the Defiant will have.
I do agree there should be a 5 tac console Raptor though.
Raiders will soon get a flanking bonus.
Which is for all intents and purposes KDF exclusive.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Only Raiders get flanking.
What ever Dev created escort specific mechanic is created in the future will most likely include Raptors.
R.I.P
According to the post:
Our goal is to use the Plesh Brek's Flanking ability as a prototype to fine to tune it before eventually rolling it out to Klingon Raiders along with some other minor improvements to these ships. It should be noted that Klingon Raiders will receive a slightly weaker version Flanking bonus (+25% instead of the Plesh Brek's +33%).
Its not an escort mechanic, its a Raider exclusive mechanic, meaning aside from the Plesh Brek, this is going to be a KDF exclusive ability, Federation wont be getting it.
Not that we mind as its difficult to maneuver a Cruiser behind someone without Subspace jump.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Never said they where.
What I said is Raiders will get it AND what ever ESCORT game mechanic is CREATED will most likely also be given to Raptors.
R.I.P
In my opinion they would be idiots to create fed raiders. The feds have no place for such a vessel in their peace keeping armada and such a designation is against their ethos.
Whom shall they raid upon in the interests of peaceful exploration?
R.I.P
lol. you got me there. Just another good reason to obliterate Earth in a massive matter/anti-matter explosion before the Undine kill us all.
R.I.P
In STO they are classified as Raiders for the BoP line of vessels. Its the only listing of such aname as cannon refers to them as warships or just Birds of Prey.
I have never seen any Raider class mentioned for the federation though there is such a vessel as a Terran raider, whch is not the federation as we know it or the federation played in STO.
None of which dilutes my statement of why the Federation has no need for a raider class of vessel since the Feds are not the Terran Empire.
R.I.P
Then you would not be Starfleet though your hypocrasy to the IP Gene created would remain.
I guess its true. The real Star Trek fans died out years ago since some on this page certainly have no idea what the UFP and Star Fleet where about.
How funny how often the Klingon Empire is condemned for being barbaric warmongers and unhonorable in action, or how the Romulans are the epitomy of deciet yet so many so called fefs wish to be just like them and worse.
R.I.P
It lists all the raiders of the IP. Of which none are federation raiders. The Maquis ship is a peregrine fighter. The Bajoran raider is a glorified shuttle. Even Bashirs ship was a glorified attack fighter.
Still no flip flop as I never said the raider was a KDF designation. I said and still say, the Federation has no place, use or need for a raider class in the IP or STO.
Even the IP supports this as no Fed raider exists.
Peddle your weak arguement elsewhere.
R.I.P