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Flaw in the new FE storyline?
wakeroberts
Member Posts: 120 Arc User
I had a thought as I was playing through the new FE for about the 12th time. Why is the Undine presence in the Jenolan Dyson Sphere such a huge threat? Tuvok says it's because they now have direct access to the Alpha Quadrant without having to open a rift from fluidic space.
However, the Undine can't directly access the Alpha Quadrant from the Jenolan Sphere, the gate there goes to the Solanae sphere. If they fly through the gate, they're just as likely to be fried by the sun as they are to be destroyed, one by one, by Feds, Klinks, Rommies, Voth, or all of the above.
Saying that they do get through that gate, they have to reach the other gateway that leads to Tau Dewa, which has already been heavily fortified against the Voth. So you have not one, but two bottlenecks that the Undine would have to fight their way through.
Plus, the Undine are already running rampant over half of Gamma Orionis. They're half the reason that Battlegroup Omega is sitting there at the transwarp gate, watching for them or the Borg to make their move.
Taking all this into consideration, it would probably be easier for the Undine to invade the Alpha Quadrant by way of subspace rifts rather than the sphere gateways.
However, the Undine can't directly access the Alpha Quadrant from the Jenolan Sphere, the gate there goes to the Solanae sphere. If they fly through the gate, they're just as likely to be fried by the sun as they are to be destroyed, one by one, by Feds, Klinks, Rommies, Voth, or all of the above.
Saying that they do get through that gate, they have to reach the other gateway that leads to Tau Dewa, which has already been heavily fortified against the Voth. So you have not one, but two bottlenecks that the Undine would have to fight their way through.
Plus, the Undine are already running rampant over half of Gamma Orionis. They're half the reason that Battlegroup Omega is sitting there at the transwarp gate, watching for them or the Borg to make their move.
Taking all this into consideration, it would probably be easier for the Undine to invade the Alpha Quadrant by way of subspace rifts rather than the sphere gateways.
Post edited by wakeroberts on
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However: Species 8472 in STO have shown that they can morph their ships into Federation Look-alikes (Now disabled Terradome), so all they have to do is enter the Jenolan sphere, Wait to an alliance ship, blow it to pieces and return as them.
Since the area where the Jenolan sphere now is, is clearly not under federation control anymore, they will have an easy time taking over ships at will.
I do see your point though, so lets hope the "To be continued..." will elaborate more on this.
Considering how close the Gateway was to the star, I'd say that there is a good chance that sensor reading through the gate were severely limited.
NPC: The fleet is going to engage the Voth while you go help Tuvok.
Vice Admiral Me: What the heck, send the fleet to help Tuvok. I can take the voth.
NPC: No there are too many of them, we are sending the fleet.
Vice Admiral Me: I AM A FLEET!! Havnt you seen the number of ships in my hanger?
NPC: We are sending the fleet.
NPC: We want you to fly close to the sun.
Vice Admiral Me: That's a horrible Idea, I am not doing that.
NPC: Yes you are.
NPC: We need to go this way to avoid the Voth.
Vice Admiral Me: What the heck? Ive taken down the borg queen, giant dinosaurs with lazers and literaly thousands of NPCS Look at my damn accolade list. Heck there isn't a single enemy alive I cant solo.
NPC: So we are going to avoid the Voth.
NPC: We have to activate the gateway.
Vice Admiral Me: That's a damn fool thing to do. Don't do that!
NPC: I am doing it any way.
NPC: We are claiming this sphere
Vice admiral Me: Like hell you are.
NPC: Want to fight?
Vice admiral Me: Lets do this!
NPC 2: No don't fight its a bad idea.
... I'm sorry this whole mission was one big tease. It never let me do the things I wanted to do... even though I outranked all the people telling me no.
The USS Gold was stuck in the other Dyson Sphere once the gateways were rebooted (back in Sphere of Influence) it's been stuck in that sphere since then, when the gateway did open they were immediately greeted with an attack by a very powerful Voth dreadnaught which left her disabled, only to be rescused by Tuvok and ourselved emerging from the gate behind the Dreadnaught. I imagine the captain saw no need to mention to us about Omega particles emitating from the other side of a Gateway we just came through. Besides, that is not something that the captain would have talked about over a general communications channel.
The Jenolen sphere, while able to jump across space, didn't generate or use omega particles. Perhaps it had another 'emergency' power supply, but wasn't built for extensive jumping.
The Gold might not have detected any Omega particles through the gate, due to solar interference. Also, the main Omega generators and storage are on the shell, many, many kilometers away from the sun station, which is more of a control room. Maybe the Jouret gate simply opened right next to some very strong Omega signatures, while the sun gate did not.
The Jouret gate was said to be 'fixed' at a single point, but not all space gates are. We had to disable gates in the Elachi Event so they couldn't be redirected for use in raids. Perhaps the Alliance wouldn't trust leaving a massive space gate in Undine hands, even if it's currently set only to the Solanae sun station. Who knows what they could accomplish if they had free time to mess with the gate.
The Undine are incredibly powerful and more threatening and aggressive than the Voth. Maybe the Solanae sphere must be defended from them, or else they'd roll on through and go through our gate. The Voth could care less about actually getting ships through the Jouret gate, as it's not relevant to their interests in the Sphere. They may have even sent a few recon ships through, but they're not out to 'burn the Alpha Quadrant'.
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
In the immortal words of Jack O'Neill, "Does it say 'colonel' anywhere on my uniform?"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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Speaking of which, where the hell was Shon when the other two flagships turned up? (I assume klinks and pointy-ears were likewise missing Koren and Jarok, respectively.)
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Does anybody take their level seriously enough that this is actually a problem worth addressing?
I wear captain pips. I am a captain. Problem solved.
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No, Shon never announces his arrival... he didn't with my Fed, my Klingon nor my Rom. He was just kinda, there at the end.
Stow it Captain, I and others wear Admiralty designations.
I just finished it with my KDF. He does announce his arrival but not in a boisterous way like the Bortas'Q captain (Who I guess I replaced as the KDF representative in the mission).
On my feds the Enterprise doesn't show up at all (Since my fed is the Federation rep).
It says "vice admiral" in my status window, it says "vice admiral" in my character profile, it says "vice admiral" on my level bar, it says "vice admiral" in the shipyard, it says "vice admiral" in the reputation system, it says "vice admiral" when random NPCs comment on my rank. Everywhere you look, except if you look at my chest, I outrank everyone in the mission by at least two grades.
If Cryptic wants us to be vice admirals, then people in-universe need to actually treat us that way, and that means not getting ordered around by an O-6. Otherwise, they could've just left the name at captain.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The NPC's in Star Trek captain tradition are thumbing their nose at your orders.
tekehd wins the thread.
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Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Not sure, I definitely saw the enterprise when playing as the KDF , but Ent-F seemed to be the only one not there for both my Romulan and Starfleet plays
On my Rom, it was the Liset and the Enterprise that shows up. Bortasqu was a no show.
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The inclusion of the Jenolen Dyson sphere is what threw me. In TNG's Relics, Data told Picard that the sphere was abandoned and the star is highly unstable. Expelling matter and severe bursts of radiation. This explains why the inhabitants of that particular sphere abandoned it. Many of Enterprises systems were disabled - including weakened shields. The crew was at ongoing risk from continued exposure to this radiation.
Later on, Picard asks Worf if the ship's phasers could be used to cut a hole through the shell of the sphere, allowing the Enterprise to escape? However, the sphere is composed of carbon-neutronium and phasers or torpedoes would be completely ineffective.
Our mission suggests that the Deep Space Science Vessel, USS Gold, has been recently trapped inside there in a disabled state. The state of the Gold suggested that it wasn't in the best condition. Granted it's been 40 years since this sphere was discovered, would not the Golds crew have been at risk for continued exposure to the same radiation bursts as Enterprise had been? If something changed, what? I'm also befuddled about no mention of Omega in the Jenolen sphere. That does need explaining.
Also, the Undine managed to blast the same carbon-neutronium access door that the Enterprise couldn't scratch. While also plowing that same beam through the Voth shields to crack that dreadnaught like an egg. I guess that we are to believe the Undine's anti-proton beam weapons are that much more superior? How did the flagships both of the KDF and Republic withstand such firepower immediately after these events?
What of any Voth survivors of that shattered dreadnaught? My Captain - and I dare say Tuvok - would have thought to at least look for them.
Playing my Fed, I did see what was presumably the Enterprise-F during the first cutscene which showed the Joint Command fleet holding off the Voth fleet. Just before it panned down to our own starship. Later on, perhaps Shon simply stayed on the other side of the gate to destroy it should the Romulan and KDF flagships have failed?
Solanae Sphere is in the Delta Quadrant....
how they getting to the Alpha Quadrant
I assume the initial Undine shot is the "combined fire" Death Star superlaser ripoff we saw them do in the VOY "Scorpion" two-parter. The one that one-shots Borg Cubes and planets. Then they broke formation to fit through the gap, so couldn't use it on us. It can probably only target massive ships or stations or planets effectively though.
And in the normal tradition of science fiction why in hell are we trying to make sense of this?
This "I'm an admiral why are they ordering me around" stuff is getting really old, you are the captain of a ship, not lord of all you survey and unless you are going to surrender command of your ship to another officer and take up the position of this person giving you orders then you will follow your orders to render aid to him in the way that he directs. Too many chefs spoil the soup, there is a reason why a captain has the final would on his ship and an on-sight commander has the final word in the purview of his command, even when he is the presence of officers that may outrank him. You may feel like you're being ordered around but remember the mission is meant to be playable by lower level players and even though it seems like they're ordering you around, you are still the one being asked to make decisions about what actions to take, which pretty much says you're in command.
For some reason, that reminded me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12PWq22E9CQ
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
I would very much like to see a build that can take on three Undine Battleships and a pair of Dreadnoughts solo
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Specifically Tuvok's line of-
"We have fulfilled our mission to neutralize the jump capabilities of the Solenae Sphere, only to open up a gateway that the Undine can now use to reach our space. They will no longer have to create rifts from fluidic space."
Unless I'm missing something, the only way I can see this newly activated Iconian gateway allowing the Undine to reach our space without the need for a rift is if the gateway, and by proxy the Jenolan Sphere, is now inside fluidic space.
If that was the case would we not have detected this when the Sphere door was breached?
I guess the Undine have massed a large force in the Delta Quadrant in the last 20 years.
Or my klingon General I sent through. ******n it I am A LT General of the IKN. You damn well better do what I say or I'll kill you all. But no, RADM Tuvok overrides me and basically orders me around.
Oh and as far as the Enterprise not showing up, do anything Klingon affiliated, Enterprise shows up instead of the Bortasqu'
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Also, how did the Jenolan Sphere jump without rendering half of the alpha quadrant unable to use warp drive? By all accounts the Jenolan sun station should be in an even worse state than the Solanae one, so how come there wasn't an Omega detonation?
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Nope, laser-saurs and undie-wear instead. Did Cryptic take meth or something?
I'm not THAT difficult to please, I just have a very low tolerance threshold for stupid BS! - George Carlin.