True. I think we shouldn't harp on the ships too much to adress "imbalance" in any way, but more on the fact that there is clearly a way Cryptic WANTS you to play the game in order to stay competitive, if that is what you want. You HAVE to play in a large fleet (because it is more likely you buy zen for dil to finish the projects), buy the recent power creep ship, need the latest magic doffs (lockbox or via exchange trade (earn money by buying keys with zen first etc.))
You can make the Galaxy work pretty good, that's what I think I'm doing. Thinking outside the box is required to work with what you got, that's true and it may be even true that every other cruiser can do it better, but who cares, really. But I really hate that fleets get those ridiculous upgrades, small fleets most likely never reach that and single players, dog forbid, they get virtually nothing. Remember, there are literally no viable drops in this game, no uniques or sets etc. They even took away a mk xii purple weapon source for non-fleet players, the omega store and there is just one reputation that grants you weaponry for like 30k dil a piece...
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
True. I think we shouldn't harp on the ships too much to adress "imbalance" in any way, but more on the fact that there is clearly a way Cryptic WANTS you to play the game in order to stay competitive, if that is what you want. You HAVE to play in a large fleet (because it is more likely you buy zen for dil to finish the projects), buy the recent power creep ship, need the latest magic doffs (lockbox or via exchange trade (earn money by buying keys with zen first etc.))
You can make the Galaxy work pretty good, that's what I think I'm doing. Thinking outside the box is required to work with what you got, that's true and it may be even true that every other cruiser can do it better, but who cares, really. But I really hate that fleets get those ridiculous upgrades, small fleets most likely never reach that and single players, dog forbid, they get virtually nothing. Remember, there are literally no viable drops in this game, no uniques or sets etc. They even took away a mk xii purple weapon source for non-fleet players, the omega store and there is just one reputation that grants you weaponry for like 30k dil a piece...
Agreed with what your saying. They promised fleets would add to gameplay not be a requirement, and all fleets even the small 4 man would have a chance. Unless they address this or give small fleets some kind of access to larger ones maybe by adding a new function between fleets, trade negotiations for example and let smaller fleets purchase access to larger fleets venders/shipyard but use their own fleet provisions to purchase them, something to help small fleets catch up its gonna be a requirement to be not only in a fleet but a large one.. Many fleets already let solo players buy access to their fleet yards though honestly unless your in a fleet you wont have enough fleet merits for all the new goodies.
All in all ain't to happy how this game is going. Older ships get left further and further behind in the power creep, dps is all that most endgame focuses on. Lock boxes and lobi store ships seem to be not so popular cause of their looks but cause they offer what Feds/klink ships don't. Frankly I seem to do more STF's with alien ships then with Fed or klink ships.
Admittedly I'm more an old cranky guy that wants our Federation ships (galaxy, intrepid, and others, and to a smaller degree klink ships too) updated to where people want to play in them more then the tholian, voth, or dominion ships.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Agreed with what your saying. They promised fleets would add to gameplay not be a requirement, and all fleets even the small 4 man would have a chance. Unless they address this or give small fleets some kind of access to larger ones maybe by adding a new function between fleets, trade negotiations for example and let smaller fleets purchase access to larger fleets venders/shipyard but use their own fleet provisions to purchase them, something to help small fleets catch up its gonna be a requirement to be not only in a fleet but a large one.. Many fleets already let solo players buy access to their fleet yards though honestly unless your in a fleet you wont have enough fleet merits for all the new goodies.
All in all ain't to happy how this game is going. Older ships get left further and further behind in the power creep, dps is all that most endgame focuses on. Lock boxes and lobi store ships seem to be not so popular cause of their looks but cause they offer what Feds/klink ships don't. Frankly I seem to do more STF's with alien ships then with Fed or klink ships.
Admittedly I'm more an old cranky guy that wants our Federation ships (galaxy, intrepid, and others, and to a smaller degree klink ships too) updated to where people want to play in them more then the tholian, voth, or dominion ships.
One question: Are you sure it is large fleets that pay the most money?
Because I have been in a largish fleet and the multitude of players capped off builds pretty fast. but in my small fleet I have dropped around $400 this month for dilithium, and keys to get ec for doffs.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
One question: Are you sure it is large fleets that pay the most money?
Because I have been in a largish fleet and the multitude of players capped off builds pretty fast. but in my small fleet I have dropped around $400 this month for dilithium, and keys to get ec for doffs.
Honestly I don't know the system well enough to know just what kind of break the smaller fleets get compared to larger ones. Never paid attention to projects. Know it can't be that much of a break. Seen many projects in a smaller fleet I'm in take several days if not a week, in the larger fleet most only take a day or two and thats mostly cause of doffs that need to be contributed.
i just watched the best of both worlds and in it the borg clearly say that picard was captain of the most powerful ship in the federation fleet so that should put a end to that discussion unless people think that the borg are a bunch of morons...
At that time. The USS Sovereign wasn't finished yet. But still it would be the second most powerful ship class in the fleet. It should be better represented in game.
And then come the nitpickers who say that "powerful" could mean almost everything... :rolleyes:
I agree with you, the Galaxy was (at least in TNG) the most powerful ship in Starfleet.
the ONLY reason they made the Sovereign was because some producers wanted a more cheap* looking spaceship.
* in the sense of less original/characteristic and more generic and boring looking IMO.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I think that's more subject of personal opinion. I liked the Sovvie. It's no Galaxy, but I did like it.
My point was that in-universe there was absolutely no reason to introduce a new ship class for the Enterprise -E.
If they wanted it to look a bit modern, they easily could have remade the Galaxy Class, similar like they reworked the Constitution model for ST:TMP.
But in my opinion, the Sovereign design looks too obvious and simple made too look "modern". It's basicly a flat and streched Constitution refit, so the average cinema audience reckognises it as Star Trek ship (kirks ship). This just shows that the producers think the audience is stupid.
That's just my opinion but i think they should have created a ship that continues the Galaxys features (wide saucer, short nacelles and so on). But in no case fall back to Excelsior like proportions. I have no idea why they made the Soversign like that.
Don't get me wrong i do not hate the Sovereign, but most people tend to see it as a Galaxy Class sucessor (which it just isn't) and think the Sovereign outperforms the Galaxy Class in every sense.
In my opinion, the makers of ST: 9 and 10, went crazy when they put so many weapons on the Sovereign. It's almost like a 5 year old who has been asked what weapons to put on the enterprise.
The Galaxy Class had an excellent arsenal in TNG already, there was no need to create ships with 10 -15 torpedo launchers in later Trek production (Sovereign and Akira, for example), that's just total overkill IMO.
To be honest i'd rather see more JJ trek movies than Trek becoming so militarized like it was in late DS9 and in the late TNG movies.
All that is just my opinion, i force no one to agree.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
you play up the military capability of the federation and its vessels, while denying that same capability.
interesting.
Maybe you didn't understand.
I said i dislike the militarisation in late DS9 and in the late TNG movies, just as the overkill to put 10-15 torpedo launchers on ships. I also said that the GCS armament was more than enough and should have been the pinacle of Starfleet offensive force. But Trek producers wanted more and more, which made ships look like grotesque of themselves.
Maybe i wasn't clear enough, sorry for that.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
i just watched the best of both worlds and in it the borg clearly say that picard was captain of the most powerful ship in the federation fleet so that should put a end to that discussion unless people think that the borg are a bunch of morons...
I think what they meant wasn't necessarily the firepower of the ship, but the fact that it was the Flagship of the Federation, and Picard was it's CO, meant he likely had more knowledge than the average Captain of the inner workings of the Federation and Star Fleet. Just like how the Cardassians lured him into a trap to interrogate him, and how he turned down an Admiralty position yet was often treated as an equal by all the Admirals he interacted with.
Then again, a Galaxy Class was the premier ship of its time.
Not sure if this was mentioned before in the 500 pages I didn't read, but why is it the Vice Admiral Galaxy doesn't share the skins of the Captain Galaxy? As much as the Galaxy classes need assistance to make them more playable in the current game, I'd really like to be able to play a Celestial or Envoy at end game as well!
Not sure if this was mentioned before in the 500 pages I didn't read, but why is it the Vice Admiral Galaxy doesn't share the skins of the Captain Galaxy? As much as the Galaxy classes need assistance to make them more playable in the current game, I'd really like to be able to play a Celestial or Envoy at end game as well!
Only the devs know/understand.
I too would like to have Envoy and Celestial ship parts for my Galaxy Class, even if its just for experimenting. To have them already in game, but not unlocked just because the devs aren't in the modd for it is annoying to say it mildly.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Not sure if this was mentioned before in the 500 pages I didn't read, but why is it the Vice Admiral Galaxy doesn't share the skins of the Captain Galaxy? As much as the Galaxy classes need assistance to make them more playable in the current game, I'd really like to be able to play a Celestial or Envoy at end game as well!
I'm thinking this probably has more to do with the saucer separation animation than anything. When they created it they probably never converted the old skins and probably don't want to go back and do them. No idea if I'm correct or not.
I think what they meant wasn't necessarily the firepower of the ship, but the fact that it was the Flagship of the Federation, and Picard was it's CO, meant he likely had more knowledge than the average Captain of the inner workings of the Federation and Star Fleet. Just like how the Cardassians lured him into a trap to interrogate him, and how he turned down an Admiralty position yet was often treated as an equal by all the Admirals he interacted with.
Then again, a Galaxy Class was the premier ship of its time.
theres no question that during BoBW the galaxy class was the most powerful ship class, in every measurable way. most think its debatable if thats true by first contact or nemisis. till the end of canon though, there really was nothing aproching the raw output and size the galaxy had though.
Flagship doesn't mean much in my opinion. Any ship that leads and commands a fleet or squadron can be a flagship.
The borg said most powerful. Why people insist most powerful doesn't imply combat capability IDK.
In Trekverse, a flagship is a faction's pinnacle of ship design, the figurehead so to speak. It doesn't necessarily have a flag officer on board nor any special function, really.
I would however concur, when the Borg say "most powerful" I also would assume that the Galaxy Class' firepower was unmatched by other ships of the fleet. If I'm not mistaken, it was even unmatched by the Klingons (they came up with the Negh'Var much later), the D'd warbird of the Romulans however was en par or even more powerful than a Galaxy (those heavy forward facing guns were deadly, really).
The problem with the ship was that it lacks the agility to be a full fledged combat vessel, that's why even it outguns a Vor'Cha battlecruiser for example a Galaxy would have a hard time facing a pair of those (Klingon vessels aren't designed to operate alone) because the Klingon cruisers would most likely be more nimble and agile and outmanneuver the Galaxy.
That's where the Sovereign comes into play. Although out of universe yreodred is probably right, we need an in-universe justification as well. I personally think that the Sovereign was meant to effectively replace the entire line-up of Starfleet's "heavy cruisers" and send the Excelsiors, Cheyennes, Constellations and other older designs into retirement for good so you had one relatively efficient mass produced heavy cruiser model that could take on all tasks those vessels did but integrated some tactical finesse to be a bit more agile like a Vor'Cha for example. Also, being the newest canon type of vessel the Sovereign was the most advanced at it's time, though this however doesn't mean anything. The Voyager was also the most advanced of it's time, I persoally would think the Intrepid to streamline the light cruiser line-up like the Sovy did for the heavies.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
In Trekverse, a flagship is a faction's pinnacle of ship design, the figurehead so to speak. It doesn't necessarily have a flag officer on board nor any special function, really.
I would however concur, when the Borg say "most powerful" I also would assume that the Galaxy Class' firepower was unmatched by other ships of the fleet. If I'm not mistaken, it was even unmatched by the Klingons (they came up with the Negh'Var much later), the D'd warbird of the Romulans however was en par or even more powerful than a Galaxy (those heavy forward facing guns were deadly, really).
The problem with the ship was that it lacks the agility to be a full fledged combat vessel, that's why even it outguns a Vor'Cha battlecruiser for example a Galaxy would have a hard time facing a pair of those (Klingon vessels aren't designed to operate alone) because the Klingon cruisers would most likely be more nimble and agile and outmanneuver the Galaxy.
That's where the Sovereign comes into play. Although out of universe yreodred is probably right, we need an in-universe justification as well. I personally think that the Sovereign was meant to effectively replace the entire line-up of Starfleet's "heavy cruisers" and send the Excelsiors, Cheyennes, Constellations and other older designs into retirement for good so you had one relatively efficient mass produced heavy cruiser model that could take on all tasks those vessels did but integrated some tactical finesse to be a bit more agile like a Vor'Cha for example. Also, being the newest canon type of vessel the Sovereign was the most advanced at it's time, though this however doesn't mean anything. The Voyager was also the most advanced of it's time, I persoally would think the Intrepid to streamline the light cruiser line-up like the Sovy did for the heavies.
agility wouldn't mean much for the galaxy as it would have filled a battleship/dreadnaught role in combat. those ships they would have escorts in major engagements and the large firing arcs of the type 10 phasers would greatly compensated for any lack of maneuverability.
Not sure if this was mentioned before in the 500 pages I didn't read, but why is it the Vice Admiral Galaxy doesn't share the skins of the Captain Galaxy? As much as the Galaxy classes need assistance to make them more playable in the current game, I'd really like to be able to play a Celestial or Envoy at end game as well!
If you can put a decent set up on it, the Captain rank Galaxy is quite viable for End-Game. Mine out DPS's my Galaxy Dreadnought. Yes, it's squishier, but the right parts can help mitigate that.
I'll share my build with you if you're interested. I could turn it into a Celetial or Envoy if I wanted, but personally, I think those designs are hideous, but I certainly have no problem with you if you disagree.
Weyland-Yutani Joint Space Venture - Always open to new members!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
In Trekverse, a flagship is a faction's pinnacle of ship design, the figurehead so to speak. It doesn't necessarily have a flag officer on board nor any special function, really.
I would however concur, when the Borg say "most powerful" I also would assume that the Galaxy Class' firepower was unmatched by other ships of the fleet. If I'm not mistaken, it was even unmatched by the Klingons (they came up with the Negh'Var much later), the D'd warbird of the Romulans however was en par or even more powerful than a Galaxy (those heavy forward facing guns were deadly, really).
The problem with the ship was that it lacks the agility to be a full fledged combat vessel, that's why even it outguns a Vor'Cha battlecruiser for example a Galaxy would have a hard time facing a pair of those (Klingon vessels aren't designed to operate alone) because the Klingon cruisers would most likely be more nimble and agile and outmanneuver the Galaxy.
That's where the Sovereign comes into play. Although out of universe yreodred is probably right, we need an in-universe justification as well. I personally think that the Sovereign was meant to effectively replace the entire line-up of Starfleet's "heavy cruisers" and send the Excelsiors, Cheyennes, Constellations and other older designs into retirement for good so you had one relatively efficient mass produced heavy cruiser model that could take on all tasks those vessels did but integrated some tactical finesse to be a bit more agile like a Vor'Cha for example. Also, being the newest canon type of vessel the Sovereign was the most advanced at it's time, though this however doesn't mean anything. The Voyager was also the most advanced of it's time, I persoally would think the Intrepid to streamline the light cruiser line-up like the Sovy did for the heavies.
low mobility is mostly just a game mechanic, it was never shown to be that handy caped. ether way it doesn't mater, you pretty much cant hide from the fireing arc of its main arrays. and torpedoes are tracking weapons. the much smaller and streamlined vorcha's most powerful guns were lower arc beams and cannon banks, mobility was a critical factor, wile any fed ship with arrays it was just gravy.
low mobility is mostly just a game mechanic, it was never shown to be that handy caped. ether way it doesn't mater, you pretty much cant hide from the fireing arc of its main arrays. and torpedoes are tracking weapons. the much smaller and streamlined vorcha's most powerful guns were lower arc beams and cannon banks, mobility was a critical factor, wile any fed ship with arrays it was just gravy.
It is true that it was never shown explicitly but the paste of Trek combat changed over the time as well. In early TNG sips would mostly basically just sit there and shoot each other until someone goes down. This was of course due to technical limitation, although I personally like that slow style of combat. But the CGI assisted combat made it more nimble and I just assume the Galaxy, being the largest Starfleet vessel in-canon, just trades that for agility. That's also a reason for the Mk X huge phaser arrays.
You are right that they cover basically 300 degrees firing arc and you can't really get away from that - but the Gal is basically forced to shoot at that angle the enemy provides. This is where agility comes into play. Also, the Galaxy was rarely shown firing more than a single beam at one target at once meaning that there is some kind of limitation on it's output. More agile ships could circle her and repeatedly attack certain weakpoints while a Galaxy as a combatant preferably steamrolls the enemy and tears holes into formations.
That's at least how I see it
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Also, the Galaxy was rarely shown firing more than a single beam at one target at once meaning that there is some kind of limitation on it's output. More agile ships could circle her and repeatedly attack certain weakpoints while a Galaxy as a combatant preferably steamrolls the enemy and tears holes into formations.
Not always. Some battlescenes in DS9 showed Galaxy class ships fireing multiple beams at a target (a galor class if i remember corectly).
Also we shouldn't forget that the big D almost never shot to kill. they mostly just wanted to diasble an enemy ship. The only times we really can see the D fighting for her life was "best of both worlds I+II" and "The Survivors". And then she was really kicking A$$ IMO.
Estimating the GCS real performance isn't that easy, since they put someone in command who rather talked than shoots. (And let's not forget the technical limitations of the time TNG was shot.)
I still think that if that stupid producer didn't had decided to get rid of the Enterprise -D and subsitute it with that cheap excelsior ripoff, things would be much more in favour of the Galaxy Class.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
If you can put a decent set up on it, the Captain rank Galaxy is quite viable for End-Game. Mine out DPS's my Galaxy Dreadnought. Yes, it's squishier, but the right parts can help mitigate that.
I'll share my build with you if you're interested. I could turn it into a Celetial or Envoy if I wanted, but personally, I think those designs are hideous, but I certainly have no problem with you if you disagree.
I would greatly appreciate a posting for a decent build for a Captain Rank Exploration Cruiser!
I know this won't do anything but throw fuel on the fire, but I can't help but feel that the Voth Bulwark Dreadnought Cruiser has the stats and BOff layout that should have been given to the Fleet Galaxy.
Just sayin.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
That's how mine sits at the moment, but it can be made better with Rep Gear, and it should be able to support an Aux2Bat build, but mine gets me by well enough. It can still get overwhelmed by Voth, but it will take some down with it. All three rear weapons are 360 weapons, making it to where anything within your beam array's forward firing arcs will have at least six weapons hitting it at once. 7 with the Torp, which can be replaced with another beam array if preferred. It turns well enough, but imagine it with two Mk XII Neutroniums with +turn!
It's not going to dominate DPS rankings, but it will surprise you. And like I said, this thing can only get better and harder to kill with the right rep gear and fleet consoles. All on a T4 Captain Galaxy.
EDIT 2: Once you get one or two people with you, you're just about invincible, unless you have a thing for Threat Generation.
EDIT 3: If you're an engineering captain, that will make you that much harder to kill, and give you better power levels than I can get as a Tac. What you can do inherently I need Plasmonic Leech and other things for, lol.
Weyland-Yutani Joint Space Venture - Always open to new members!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
Not always. Some battlescenes in DS9 showed Galaxy class ships fireing multiple beams at a target (a galor class if i remember corectly).
Also we shouldn't forget that the big D almost never shot to kill. they mostly just wanted to diasble an enemy ship. The only times we really can see the D fighting for her life was "best of both worlds I+II" and "The Survivors". And then she was really kicking A$$ IMO.
Estimating the GCS real performance isn't that easy, since they put someone in command who rather talked than shoots. (And let's not forget the technical limitations of the time TNG was shot.)
I still think that if that stupid producer didn't had decided to get rid of the Enterprise -D and subsitute it with that cheap excelsior ripoff, things would be much more in favour of the Galaxy Class.
the D fired multiple beams at once on a few occasions mainly against the borg. it used the pylon arrays with the main saucer arrays
I have now used both the Captain and Tier-5 Retrofit Galaxies, and the only problem I have with either of them is... well, nothing.
The Retrofit Tier-5 is a brick **** house, and I fly it with a tac. captain.
Should it turn like an escort? No. Should it do weird things like a science ship? No. It's built to survive and make sure its team mates do too.
Comments
True. I think we shouldn't harp on the ships too much to adress "imbalance" in any way, but more on the fact that there is clearly a way Cryptic WANTS you to play the game in order to stay competitive, if that is what you want. You HAVE to play in a large fleet (because it is more likely you buy zen for dil to finish the projects), buy the recent power creep ship, need the latest magic doffs (lockbox or via exchange trade (earn money by buying keys with zen first etc.))
You can make the Galaxy work pretty good, that's what I think I'm doing. Thinking outside the box is required to work with what you got, that's true and it may be even true that every other cruiser can do it better, but who cares, really. But I really hate that fleets get those ridiculous upgrades, small fleets most likely never reach that and single players, dog forbid, they get virtually nothing. Remember, there are literally no viable drops in this game, no uniques or sets etc. They even took away a mk xii purple weapon source for non-fleet players, the omega store and there is just one reputation that grants you weaponry for like 30k dil a piece...
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Agreed with what your saying. They promised fleets would add to gameplay not be a requirement, and all fleets even the small 4 man would have a chance. Unless they address this or give small fleets some kind of access to larger ones maybe by adding a new function between fleets, trade negotiations for example and let smaller fleets purchase access to larger fleets venders/shipyard but use their own fleet provisions to purchase them, something to help small fleets catch up its gonna be a requirement to be not only in a fleet but a large one.. Many fleets already let solo players buy access to their fleet yards though honestly unless your in a fleet you wont have enough fleet merits for all the new goodies.
All in all ain't to happy how this game is going. Older ships get left further and further behind in the power creep, dps is all that most endgame focuses on. Lock boxes and lobi store ships seem to be not so popular cause of their looks but cause they offer what Feds/klink ships don't. Frankly I seem to do more STF's with alien ships then with Fed or klink ships.
Admittedly I'm more an old cranky guy that wants our Federation ships (galaxy, intrepid, and others, and to a smaller degree klink ships too) updated to where people want to play in them more then the tholian, voth, or dominion ships.
LINK
One question: Are you sure it is large fleets that pay the most money?
Because I have been in a largish fleet and the multitude of players capped off builds pretty fast. but in my small fleet I have dropped around $400 this month for dilithium, and keys to get ec for doffs.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Honestly I don't know the system well enough to know just what kind of break the smaller fleets get compared to larger ones. Never paid attention to projects. Know it can't be that much of a break. Seen many projects in a smaller fleet I'm in take several days if not a week, in the larger fleet most only take a day or two and thats mostly cause of doffs that need to be contributed.
I agree with you, the Galaxy was (at least in TNG) the most powerful ship in Starfleet.
the ONLY reason they made the Sovereign was because some producers wanted a more cheap* looking spaceship.
* in the sense of less original/characteristic and more generic and boring looking IMO.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
My point was that in-universe there was absolutely no reason to introduce a new ship class for the Enterprise -E.
If they wanted it to look a bit modern, they easily could have remade the Galaxy Class, similar like they reworked the Constitution model for ST:TMP.
But in my opinion, the Sovereign design looks too obvious and simple made too look "modern". It's basicly a flat and streched Constitution refit, so the average cinema audience reckognises it as Star Trek ship (kirks ship). This just shows that the producers think the audience is stupid.
That's just my opinion but i think they should have created a ship that continues the Galaxys features (wide saucer, short nacelles and so on). But in no case fall back to Excelsior like proportions. I have no idea why they made the Soversign like that.
Don't get me wrong i do not hate the Sovereign, but most people tend to see it as a Galaxy Class sucessor (which it just isn't) and think the Sovereign outperforms the Galaxy Class in every sense.
In my opinion, the makers of ST: 9 and 10, went crazy when they put so many weapons on the Sovereign. It's almost like a 5 year old who has been asked what weapons to put on the enterprise.
The Galaxy Class had an excellent arsenal in TNG already, there was no need to create ships with 10 -15 torpedo launchers in later Trek production (Sovereign and Akira, for example), that's just total overkill IMO.
To be honest i'd rather see more JJ trek movies than Trek becoming so militarized like it was in late DS9 and in the late TNG movies.
All that is just my opinion, i force no one to agree.
Maybe you didn't understand.
I said i dislike the militarisation in late DS9 and in the late TNG movies, just as the overkill to put 10-15 torpedo launchers on ships. I also said that the GCS armament was more than enough and should have been the pinacle of Starfleet offensive force. But Trek producers wanted more and more, which made ships look like grotesque of themselves.
Maybe i wasn't clear enough, sorry for that.
I think what they meant wasn't necessarily the firepower of the ship, but the fact that it was the Flagship of the Federation, and Picard was it's CO, meant he likely had more knowledge than the average Captain of the inner workings of the Federation and Star Fleet. Just like how the Cardassians lured him into a trap to interrogate him, and how he turned down an Admiralty position yet was often treated as an equal by all the Admirals he interacted with.
Then again, a Galaxy Class was the premier ship of its time.
I too would like to have Envoy and Celestial ship parts for my Galaxy Class, even if its just for experimenting. To have them already in game, but not unlocked just because the devs aren't in the modd for it is annoying to say it mildly.
I'm thinking this probably has more to do with the saucer separation animation than anything. When they created it they probably never converted the old skins and probably don't want to go back and do them. No idea if I'm correct or not.
theres no question that during BoBW the galaxy class was the most powerful ship class, in every measurable way. most think its debatable if thats true by first contact or nemisis. till the end of canon though, there really was nothing aproching the raw output and size the galaxy had though.
In Trekverse, a flagship is a faction's pinnacle of ship design, the figurehead so to speak. It doesn't necessarily have a flag officer on board nor any special function, really.
I would however concur, when the Borg say "most powerful" I also would assume that the Galaxy Class' firepower was unmatched by other ships of the fleet. If I'm not mistaken, it was even unmatched by the Klingons (they came up with the Negh'Var much later), the D'd warbird of the Romulans however was en par or even more powerful than a Galaxy (those heavy forward facing guns were deadly, really).
The problem with the ship was that it lacks the agility to be a full fledged combat vessel, that's why even it outguns a Vor'Cha battlecruiser for example a Galaxy would have a hard time facing a pair of those (Klingon vessels aren't designed to operate alone) because the Klingon cruisers would most likely be more nimble and agile and outmanneuver the Galaxy.
That's where the Sovereign comes into play. Although out of universe yreodred is probably right, we need an in-universe justification as well. I personally think that the Sovereign was meant to effectively replace the entire line-up of Starfleet's "heavy cruisers" and send the Excelsiors, Cheyennes, Constellations and other older designs into retirement for good so you had one relatively efficient mass produced heavy cruiser model that could take on all tasks those vessels did but integrated some tactical finesse to be a bit more agile like a Vor'Cha for example. Also, being the newest canon type of vessel the Sovereign was the most advanced at it's time, though this however doesn't mean anything. The Voyager was also the most advanced of it's time, I persoally would think the Intrepid to streamline the light cruiser line-up like the Sovy did for the heavies.
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If you can put a decent set up on it, the Captain rank Galaxy is quite viable for End-Game. Mine out DPS's my Galaxy Dreadnought. Yes, it's squishier, but the right parts can help mitigate that.
I'll share my build with you if you're interested. I could turn it into a Celetial or Envoy if I wanted, but personally, I think those designs are hideous, but I certainly have no problem with you if you disagree.
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My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
low mobility is mostly just a game mechanic, it was never shown to be that handy caped. ether way it doesn't mater, you pretty much cant hide from the fireing arc of its main arrays. and torpedoes are tracking weapons. the much smaller and streamlined vorcha's most powerful guns were lower arc beams and cannon banks, mobility was a critical factor, wile any fed ship with arrays it was just gravy.
It is true that it was never shown explicitly but the paste of Trek combat changed over the time as well. In early TNG sips would mostly basically just sit there and shoot each other until someone goes down. This was of course due to technical limitation, although I personally like that slow style of combat. But the CGI assisted combat made it more nimble and I just assume the Galaxy, being the largest Starfleet vessel in-canon, just trades that for agility. That's also a reason for the Mk X huge phaser arrays.
You are right that they cover basically 300 degrees firing arc and you can't really get away from that - but the Gal is basically forced to shoot at that angle the enemy provides. This is where agility comes into play. Also, the Galaxy was rarely shown firing more than a single beam at one target at once meaning that there is some kind of limitation on it's output. More agile ships could circle her and repeatedly attack certain weakpoints while a Galaxy as a combatant preferably steamrolls the enemy and tears holes into formations.
That's at least how I see it
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Also we shouldn't forget that the big D almost never shot to kill. they mostly just wanted to diasble an enemy ship. The only times we really can see the D fighting for her life was "best of both worlds I+II" and "The Survivors". And then she was really kicking A$$ IMO.
Estimating the GCS real performance isn't that easy, since they put someone in command who rather talked than shoots. (And let's not forget the technical limitations of the time TNG was shot.)
I still think that if that stupid producer didn't had decided to get rid of the Enterprise -D and subsitute it with that cheap excelsior ripoff, things would be much more in favour of the Galaxy Class.
I would greatly appreciate a posting for a decent build for a Captain Rank Exploration Cruiser!
Just sayin.
Ask and you shall recieve.
U.S.S. Crimson's Fury - T4 Galaxy build
That's how mine sits at the moment, but it can be made better with Rep Gear, and it should be able to support an Aux2Bat build, but mine gets me by well enough. It can still get overwhelmed by Voth, but it will take some down with it. All three rear weapons are 360 weapons, making it to where anything within your beam array's forward firing arcs will have at least six weapons hitting it at once. 7 with the Torp, which can be replaced with another beam array if preferred. It turns well enough, but imagine it with two Mk XII Neutroniums with +turn!
It's not going to dominate DPS rankings, but it will surprise you. And like I said, this thing can only get better and harder to kill with the right rep gear and fleet consoles. All on a T4 Captain Galaxy.
EDIT 2: Once you get one or two people with you, you're just about invincible, unless you have a thing for Threat Generation.
EDIT 3: If you're an engineering captain, that will make you that much harder to kill, and give you better power levels than I can get as a Tac. What you can do inherently I need Plasmonic Leech and other things for, lol.
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My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
the D fired multiple beams at once on a few occasions mainly against the borg. it used the pylon arrays with the main saucer arrays
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJilKdc6RIA
The Retrofit Tier-5 is a brick **** house, and I fly it with a tac. captain.
Should it turn like an escort? No. Should it do weird things like a science ship? No. It's built to survive and make sure its team mates do too.