A balanced command ship with the Saucer attached, yes.
A formidable combat vessel with the saucer detached, no?
Some Universal Console Slots and Bridge Officer Stations would give the Galaxy the versatility that was obviously intended with its saucer separation ability.
And all cruisers should have the ability to mount dual/heavy cannons. That should not be an arbitrary restriction, but a decision each captain makes for their own ship.
And all cruisers should have the ability to mount dual/heavy cannons. That should not be an arbitrary restriction, but a decision each captain makes for their own ship.
Now, my time watching Star Trek might be fuzzy, but I certainly don't remember Kirk or Picard telling their crewmates to fire the Enterprise's dual cannons like a bunch of gun-crazy nuts.
Now, Riker in the Galaxy-X, that's whole different story and we got that ship.
Frankly, I think it would be utterly stupid for any Cruiser outside of the Galaxy-X and the Avenger to run around with cannons, any sort of war be darned!
Change the ensign engineer boff slot to a universal. Then take away an engineering console slot, do a little coding magic and make it the first ever universal console slot.
Boom. Now you have a more flexible ship, and nobody who loves the ship as is can complain, because they can still do the exact same thing with it now as they could before.
Well noone listens to my explanation as they must be in denial as to it being why the galaxy will not get an update. Now if were talking about the galaxy-x then that will get an update with the fleet version but the galaxy will not.
I like tng as well but when it comes to the galaxy it is hard to argue.
In the show the Galaxy was made in a time of peace. It was a luxury liner in space. No other ship in any series showed a ship designed with a school on it for kids. Most of the galaxy class ships blew up. There was one point where Wesley's school project almost blew up the ship. there were a few times where the Enterprise-D was only saved by Data's unique abilities where if he weren't there they would have blown up.
This ship was designed to do system patrols and chest thumping along the boarders to make people like the Romulans think twice.
There has also been a lot of people who think the Excelsior should not be more power. That ship was a war ship designed to fight Klingons. In DS9 the Defiant went head on head with the Lakota it was able to hold its own. the defiant killed many attack ships and when DS9 had the opportunity to show the galaxy off it was blown up once again.
This favoritism is not just in sto but is depicted in a few locations. The galaxy may have large numbers in cannon but it is not a war ship. It more of a case of too many options to be effective.
I like tng as well but when it comes to the galaxy it is hard to argue.
In the show the Galaxy was made in a time of peace. It was a luxury liner in space. No other ship in any series showed a ship designed with a school on it for kids. Most of the galaxy class ships blew up. There was one point where Wesley's school project almost blew up the ship. there were a few times where the Enterprise-D was only saved by Data's unique abilities where if he weren't there they would have blown up.
This ship was designed to do system patrols and chest thumping along the boarders to make people like the Romulans think twice.
There has also been a lot of people who think the Excelsior should not be more power. That ship was a war ship designed to fight Klingons. In DS9 the Defiant went head on head with the Lakota it was able to hold its own. the defiant killed many attack ships and when DS9 had the opportunity to show the galaxy off it was blown up once again.
This favoritism is not just in sto but is depicted in a few locations. The galaxy may have large numbers in cannon but it is not a war ship. It more of a case of too many options to be effective.
Most of what you write is a common misconception shared with people that (I think) fail to grasp the concept of Starfleet and the associated show.
In short: The Galaxy Class was no luxury liner. It was the pinnacle of Starfleet's ship design and stood for the ideals of Starfleet and the Federation. As Starfleet is not a military it's main task was Exploration and confronting the unknown and that's what the Galaxy Class was for. As she was intented to do that without any external support, crews assigned to those ships had to be ready to serve on these vessels for years and years without returning home. That's why they were allowed to take their families with them. Now, you have a ship loaded with the most precious "cargo" imaginable - that's why the ship was heavily armed in a way it would dwarf many people's military ships. That circumstance hindered first contact situations more than once because most other people's would recognize the ship as a humongous battleship by looking at it. Next to Exploration the ship was everything you needed it to be. It had huge storage potential, a detachable saucer with planetary landing capabilities, it could transport entire colonies, it had a huge number of labs and facilities and yes, it also had a school. Why are people harping on that school? It was a single friggin room on the ship, on a deck reserved for civlians that was dedicated to educate the children of those families that accompanied their Starfleet members for what, a decade? What's so bad about that?
I will however grant you that later in the series, when the Enterprise was more often than not charged with border patrols and muscle flexing, they could have left the families at a starbase (I mean they are still there in Generations...)
Does any of that mean that the ship in this game needs tactical superiority? Not in my opinion, especially since I think the class lacked the agility to be a full fledged battleship, but that's another story.
I think your idea of the Excelsior is also a misconception. Who said it was designed as a battleship versus Klingons? It was designed as a experiment for a new kind of warp drive. Other than that it was an explorer, a transport, a patrol vessel - it was not once stated it was in any way concieved tactically more capable than a constitution or even a miranda. It was bigger, more advanced and more vertasile but that's about it. And that also does in no way mean that it should be superior to a much newer and bigger ship in a game set in the 25th century. At least, the Exploration cruiser has 25th century refits available. The Excelsior still is a retrofitted, 120 year old ship. And what the Lakota recieved in terms of retrofits in the show, the Galaxies scrambled during the dominion war recieved pretty much the same, if not more (see the USS Venture).
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Fleet Galaxy R is a very competitive ship for its role. It is an excellent tank/healer. It is a decent pve ship and an excellent pvp ship.
Its not competitive when you want to play it like an assault cruiser, escort or a sci control ship build or ship playstyle. It is not even meant to be versatile ship but Fleet Galaxy R excels on its role as long the player knows how to play and build the Fleet galaxy R.
Absent of Ramming the ship, If you want it to hull tank 3 bug ships and not get destroyed, this ship becomes more powerful than the lockbox ships and Voth dreadnoughts, tac cubes. 3 well built, well played BUG ships can destroy all those mobs. Hence, that kind of build would make this an OP ship.
You should fly another ship once in a while and you will see that the Galaxy -R in STO just lacks at all ends.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
This was the most recent suggestion I had for a new Galaxy z-store ship. (posted in another thread)
Call it the Galaxy Class Command Cruiser or something. :P
I already know paxdawn believes it's game-breaking, but I completely disagree.
With this setup, I was shooting for versatility as a priority:
Hull: 40,000+
Shield Modifier: 1.0-1.15
Weapons: 4 Fore / 4 Aft
Crew: 1000
Device Slots: 4
Consoles: 3 Engineering; 3 Science; 3 Tactical; 1 Uni (I think a uni console would be a neat idea, but 3/3/3 at the least)
Turn Rate: 6-7
Bridge Stations:
. Cmdr Engineering: ####
. Lt. Engineering: ##
. Lt. Cmdr Science: ###
. Lt. Cmdr Tactical: ###
It would be VERY close to the D'Deridex-R. (Lt. Eng instead of Tac and Uni ensign stations).
The 2x Lt.Cmdr has already been done with the D'D-R, and Vo'Quv (+ Mirror), if not others.
And I don't believe it should mount dual cannons, as that should be reserved for the Gal-X variants. But that's just my opinion.
**puts 2 pennies on the table**
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
-1 --- just "meh". Yet another, pointless, Galaxy thread - where the word "Galaxy" makes one to skip the wall of text and the whole rest of the thread to the very end of it.
I'll post this here too. I wanted to see what you guys think.
This was the most recent suggestion I had for a new Galaxy z-store ship. (posted in another thread)
Call it the Galaxy Class Command Cruiser or something.
I already know paxdawn believes it's game-breaking, but I completely disagree.
With this setup, I was shooting for versatility as a priority:
Hull: 40,000+
Shield Modifier: 1.0-1.15
Weapons: 4 Fore / 4 Aft
Crew: 1000
Device Slots: 4
Consoles: 3 Engineering; 3 Science; 3 Tactical; 1 Uni (I think a uni console would be a neat idea, but 3/3/3 at the least)
Turn Rate: 6-7
Bridge Stations:
. Cmdr Engineering: ####
. Lt. Engineering: ##
. Lt. Cmdr Science: ###
. Lt. Cmdr Tactical: ###
It would be VERY close to the D'Deridex-R. (Lt. Eng instead of Tac and Uni ensign stations).
The 2x Lt.Cmdr has already been done with the D'D-R, and Vo'Quv (+ Mirror), if not others.
And I don't believe it should mount dual cannons, as that should be reserved for the Gal-X variants. But that's just my opinion.
**puts 2 pennies on the table**
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
my roms hafeh is bigger. the obelisk carrier is MUCH bigger.
both turn much better.
I truly shows how misinformed and fallacious your facts are. First of all You compoare a hafeh over a Galaxy R. It is like comparing apples and oranges. The Hafeh can be compared to a fed escort due to its turn 16 and Com Tac not any fed cruiser.
Secondly, Obelisk and Advanced Obelisk have both turn rate 5. Galaxy R has turn rate 6. In whatever math you have 6>5.
The only time I would support a change in Galaxy R's consoles and boffs and consoles is the time that all escorts and sci ships, scimitars, assault cruisers and the like would have equal and same boffs as the current galaxy R with 8 ENG boffs and 2 tac consoles.
People bought Galaxy R for its current boff and console slots. these people are aware what they bought. No one forced you to buy or play the current Galaxy R. It fits a current playstyle and build which is contradictory to sci or tac playstyle or most galaxy r complainers, whiners in forums.
If these people who bought Galaxy R as it is are going to lose so much time and effort building a toon and build to maximize the ship, because some players just want to fit their playstyle, then so all other ships like escorts, sci ships, and all other non ENG Tank/healer build fed, romulan and klingon alike should be change their consoles and boff slots.
Its a good deal. all other ships transforms into Galaxy R stats while galaxy R transforms into ship stats that they want. Everybody gets what they want, and everybody loses their money and the time and effort they built for each of their toons and their ship.
The only time I would support a change in Galaxy R's consoles and boffs and consoles is the time that all escorts and sci ships, scimitars, assault cruisers and the like would have equal and same boffs as the current galaxy R with 8 ENG boffs and 2 tac consoles.
People bought Galaxy R for its current boff and console slots. these people are aware what they bought. No one forced you to buy or play the current Galaxy R. It fits a current playstyle and build which is contradictory to sci or tac playstyle or most galaxy r complainers, whiners in forums.
If these people who bought Galaxy R as it is are going to lose so much time and effort building a toon and build to maximize the ship, because some players just want to fit their playstyle, then so all other ships like escorts, sci ships, and all other non ENG Tank/healer build fed, romulan and klingon alike should be change their consoles and boff slots.
Its a good deal. all other ships transforms into Galaxy R stats while galaxy R transforms into ship stats that they want. Everybody gets what they want, and everybody loses their money and the time and effort they built for each of their toons and their ship.
The only part where I agree with you is that we ought not change the Gal-R.
People have already bought it. Changing it that in any significant way after the fact, I think, is just ethically wrong.
That said, sensationalism does not help your arguments.
Did anyone bring up a Galaxy class with Cmdr+Lt.Cmdr tac stations and 5 tac consoles?
You said it yourself: "It is like comparing apples and oranges."
Incidentally, the Tactical Bortas has 5 Tac Consoles. Possible Lt.Cmdr+Lt.+Ens Tac stations.
Fleet Adv. Heavy cruiser: 4. Lt.Cmdr Tac station.
Avenger/Mogh: 4. Possible Lt.Cmdr+Lt.+Ens Tac stations.
If you have such a beef with damage/Tac focused cruisers, then you are clearly barking up the wrong tree.
Where's your outrage on those other cruisers/battlecruisers?
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
Not necessarily for the Galaxy-R, but what I'd like as a non-Lobi option sometime would be CMDR Universal, Lt Engineering, Lt Science, Lt Tactical and Lt Universal.
And I don't believe it should mount dual cannons, as that should be reserved for the Gal-X variants. But that's just my opinion.
I'm more than somewhat fed-up with the "you need dual cannons for best pew pew" thing. The entire starship weapon system desperately needs to be completely overhauled from the ground up.
Now, my time watching Star Trek might be fuzzy, but I certainly don't remember Kirk or Picard telling their crewmates to fire the Enterprise's dual cannons like a bunch of gun-crazy nuts.
Never saw them calling for their dual beam banks or swapping out their warp cores, torpedoes, shields, engines... for something they acquired from the Borg either... or the Breen, Jen-Hadar, Voth...
I do recall them occasionally mentioning a weapon update, as new weapons were developed.
And seriously... is there any reason that dropping the Saucer would make the ship more "formidable", other than keeping targets in a narrow firing arc?
Now, Riker in the Galaxy-X, that's whole different story and we got that ship.
Kind of a selective application of your critique, isn't it? I never saw cannons on the Gal-X.
Frankly, I think it would be utterly stupid for any Cruiser outside of the Galaxy-X and the Avenger to run around with cannons, any sort of war be darned!
People bought Galaxy R for its current boff and console slots. these people are aware what they bought. No one forced you to buy or play the current Galaxy R. It fits a current playstyle and build which is contradictory to sci or tac playstyle or most galaxy r complainers, whiners in forums.
I bought my Gal-R before the Odyssey was introduced. The game is not the same now as it was then. Although I may have been whining about it then too.
Hold up!!!!!!! You complaining about sombody wanting the Galaxy to be a god ship but why aren't you or anybody complaining about the Jem'Hadar Bug ship being OP? The game vesion of the ship is way off canon and is the most op and tanking ship out of all escorts. Some people want keep the cruisers nerfed so they can continue to fly their escorts unchallenged. Maybe, you should complain about that godship bug first, then try to block a competitive Galaxy later.
Why would I complain on the Bugship? I don't own one but I have killed a few in my day.
As to blocking the Galaxy from love, I'm not.
I'm making fun of the many posts that want the Galaxy to be a 5 Tac console, DPS Tac Boff monster like the Bugship while being the best Engineer healer since Scotty and the best Science power flinging wizard since Merlin all wrapped in armor like the Doomsday machine.
Frankly you TNG fans that cant pull common sense out of the scripted capabilities the Enterprise displayed onscreen are doing more to harm your cause than I am.
The Galaxy is not the master of all trades. It was the best at its time but that time has passed it by in STO. Stop trying to make it the Ubership and just make it a decent ship with a sensible purpose.
Seperate your blind fandom from your desires and you will get farther.
what stats say that? theres no way to know what its actual armament was, you cant just count arrays on it like you could a fed ship. no mater what the valient did, it couldn't harm that dreadnought, not alone. sorta like how 3 bug ships could shoot at a shieldless galaxy for 10 minutes and not really do all that much damage too it.
I got the stats from memory alpha. I could not find any other sites that are close to being canon thats get specific about the stats of the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought. All i find are game connected sites and even the speculate on weapons systems. Star Trek did a poor job of catalogging star ships so people have to speculate. Star Wars catalogged every piece of equipment, including all spacecraft on and off screen.
Fleet Galaxy R is a very competitive ship for its role. It is an excellent tank/healer. It is a decent pve ship and an excellent pvp ship.
Its not competitive when you want to play it like an assault cruiser, escort or a sci control ship build or ship playstyle. It is not even meant to be versatile ship but Fleet Galaxy R excels on its role as long the player knows how to play and build the Fleet galaxy R.
Absent of Ramming the ship, If you want it to hull tank 3 bug ships and not get destroyed, this ship becomes more powerful than the lockbox ships and Voth dreadnoughts, tac cubes. 3 well built, well played BUG ships can destroy all those mobs. Hence, that kind of build would make this an OP ship.
I own one and i have a hard time tanking a well built bug ship. Most times if i tank well, opponants start spamming me and subnuking me so i can't tank.
Maybe you need to share your build and we can try it out and see if it works or not.
Why would I complain on the Bugship? I don't own one but I have killed a few in my day.
As to blocking the Galaxy from love, I'm not.
I'm making fun of the many posts that want the Galaxy to be a 5 Tac console, DPS Tac Boff monster like the Bugship while being the best Engineer healer since Scotty and the best Science power flinging wizard since Merlin all wrapped in armor like the Doomsday machine.
Frankly you TNG fans that cant pull common sense out of the scripted capabilities the Enterprise displayed onscreen are doing more to harm your cause than I am.
The Galaxy is not the master of all trades. It was the best at its time but that time has passed it by in STO. Stop trying to make it the Ubership and just make it a decent ship with a sensible purpose.
Seperate your blind fandom from your desires and you will get farther.
Why are you generalizing all of us TNG fans? We all don't want the same thing, we post our idea to start a debate. Not once have you seen me ask for 5 tac consoles. I only ask for 4 tac consoles on the fleet version because it comes with an extra console and I don't think it needs 3 science consoles. The ship have weak science powers.
You don't care to make the Galaxy better than it is so don't come in here critisizing peoples ideas, because you don't have any of your own. We don't come in here complaining about your Klingon ships or asking them to be made different or nerfed.
This post was made TNG people can vent and debate on how the Galaxy should be revamp and made better.
You say you have killed a few bugs, so have I but I know they were not good built bugs. I play PVP anough to remember players if their ship were tough to survive against.
I bet you can't name some players with good Bug setups. I know a few infamous bug owners. Edna, Cryox, Lynk@zelda.
I know you are an all Klingon bais player. Separate yourself from your blind opposition from a competitive Galaxy or go back to your Klingon world and talk about those ships. No TNG fans go and wine about your Klingon ship ideas.
I own one and i have a hard time tanking a well built bug ship. Most times if i tank well, opponants start spamming me and subnuking me so i can't tank.
Maybe you need to share your build and we can try it out and see if it works or not.
MY build doesn't work against all I think you may not understand that just becuase a ship can tank well, doesn't mean it will tank the best against every build, much less tank vs lots of builds at once.
Also there is a skill part of any build some people can make a build work that others can't or don't do as well.
I need to do some tweaking but and you need to get the EPTX doffs for better cycling, and warp core doff for more power. + all the engineering traits. You also need to learn how to do without tact team.
Keeping people off your tail and keeping them at a flank is must for any sort of dps. But I rarely die in pvp, also never die in pve and I do pretty good job of healing.
Subnuking is the bane of my build but with a good team who cross heals, there shouldn't be a problem.
I believe you want to change the Galaxy R in accordance to your playstyle.
The Boff setup and the console setup of the galaxy X is ENG heavy setup and maximizing this ship with an ENG toon. The best role for this ship is a tank/healer.
It is not meant to do sci control crowd stuff nor dps like the other cruisers. The 2 Sci boff slots are enough for a tank/healer Fleet Galaxy R on the ENG side. With its current tac and sci slots, you can slot TT, HE and TSS. All the complaints that you say that the Galaxy R is utterly lacking.
ENG boffs have also the best resistance when you compare EPTS vs TSS or Aux2Sif vs HE.
ENG boffs have still the best burst heals out there -> EPTS vs TSS or Aux2Sif VS HE.
2 Tac console and boffs are enough to be above average(2 times) your DPS PUG in pve.
It is still one of the best pvp ships out their for its role.
When it comes to defense, all cruisers have the same base defense % rate. Only escorts have higher defense % rate than any cruiser. For speed, all fed fleet cruisers have the same impulse modifier. So where did you get your info?
Turn rate? Are you kidding? This is one of the largest ships out there in STO. This ship is not meant do bring DHCs. Nor have the same playstyle as an Avenger, assault cruisers or Escorts. Why make it have better Turn rate when you can heal anyone even at your back?
The only buffs that I would probably agree on the Fleet Galaxy R are increase in hull and shield modifier due to more and more ships are having near or better than its hull and shield hp even though those ships roles are not for tanking.
Obviously you don't PVP much in a Galaxy or you would be embarressed or raging mad at how badly the setup is. I would even Challenge you myself I have to prove you wrong, but if you accept, you have to do it quickly because soon I will not have access to the forums one I get to China next week.
Fleet Galaxy R is a very competitive ship for its role. It is an excellent tank/healer. It is a decent pve ship and an excellent pvp ship.
Its not competitive when you want to play it like an assault cruiser, escort or a sci control ship build or ship playstyle. It is not even meant to be versatile ship but Fleet Galaxy R excels on its role as long the player knows how to play and build the Fleet galaxy R.
wrong. its healing and tanking ability is hamstrung by the low amount of system cooldowns available at ENS for eng, and the giveing up of extreamly valuable sci or tac skills at that level for something useless. also those 3 ENS eng lock out things like any EPtX3 skill, and ET3. with 3 station powers at LTC eng and above, your best choices at that level are blocked of use. you end up leaving an ENS station empty, or using a high end ENG station slot on something useless to you .and again, your missing out on a high end skill that would be actually helpful in ether at LTC for sci or tac.
an actual good tank station setup has at least as much sci as it does eng, like an ody with the LTC station used for sci. thats an actual good tank/healer.
Absent of Ramming the ship, If you want it to hull tank 3 bug ships and not get destroyed, this ship becomes more powerful than the lockbox ships and Voth dreadnoughts, tac cubes. 3 well built, well played BUG ships can destroy all those mobs. Hence, that kind of build would make this an OP ship.
Why would I complain on the Bugship? I don't own one but I have killed a few in my day.
As to blocking the Galaxy from love, I'm not.
I'm making fun of the many posts that want the Galaxy to be a 5 Tac console, DPS Tac Boff monster like the Bugship while being the best Engineer healer since Scotty and the best Science power flinging wizard since Merlin all wrapped in armor like the Doomsday machine.
Frankly you TNG fans that cant pull common sense out of the scripted capabilities the Enterprise displayed onscreen are doing more to harm your cause than I am.
The Galaxy is not the master of all trades. It was the best at its time but that time has passed it by in STO. Stop trying to make it the Ubership and just make it a decent ship with a sensible purpose.
Seperate your blind fandom from your desires and you will get farther.
i think i figured out what roach is going on about. when we are talking about tanking 3 bug ships in canon, we are not saying it should be able to do that in game, seeing as the bug is the best non battlecloaking escort in game. canon and in game are 2 different things, galaxy fans know that better then anyone believe me. non of us talking about the canon have made outrageous requests for revamps ether.
keep in mind though, things like 5 tactical consoles, several very high end universal stations, these are all par for the course on every new ship release. they are now the standard, not the exception. there is a bias against this ship because its been in game since nearly the beginning, and because its the galaxy class, and thus that brings with it a mountain of opinion baggage. before the lady doth protest too much, methinks, additionally, check your objectivity by those 2 factors :P
I'm making fun of the many posts that want the Galaxy to be a 5 Tac console, DPS Tac Boff monster like the Bugship while being the best Engineer healer since Scotty and the best Science power flinging wizard since Merlin all wrapped in armor like the Doomsday machine.
that statement is not logical, you can't be a tact boff monster while at the same time being a engi and science boff monster, if you have one, it is at the expense of an other, and i am not even speaking about turn rate and inertia, basic game mechanic.
so how can you make fun at a proposal that can not be?
that being said,i bielieve that the galaxy should not get 5 or 4, and even 3 tact console and a lt commander bo power.
not because one may think it would make it overpowered ( simple game mechaniqm comprehension allow you to anderstand why a 6 base turn and 25 inertia ship will not transform into a god ship because he receive 3 tact console and a lt commander tact slot, look at the odyssey for that ).
but because this will create a precedent, since the galaxy was move to the healing tanking area to the tact area, why woudn't we do it with the star cruiser then?
the star cruiser also only have a lt tact slot and 2 tact console, i see no reason why this ship didn't get love too while the galaxy do, i don't like favoritism.
and that will be for every other ship in the game that found themselves in this situation.
the galaxy should have been made tactical from the start, if you move it to that area now, every other ship that are in the same situation will ask to get the same treatement and rightfully so.
and we will then all flying different iteration of a tactical ship with absolutly no other gameplay choices, this is a reduction in gameplay diversity, that will be a lost for the game.
that should have been the reason you could have come up to if you want to make fun of some of us, but stating that we want a god ship stats?
even the more overpowered "serious" proposal are far from this.
The Galaxy is not the master of all trades. It was the best at its time but that time has passed it by in STO. Stop trying to make it the Ubership and just make it a decent ship with a sensible purpose.
and sorry but i will have to kill this legend right now.
the galaxy NEVER been the best at it time.
i have been here since game launch, so you will not going to fool me on this, that could work with the F2P players, not with me.
let me refresh you memory, the galaxy retrofit was launch at season 2: ancient enemy and was available to player with a token that you can obtain by reaching the new level cap of vice admiral 51 ( at that time ) or directly in cstore.
it was already less efficient at tanking than a star cruiser at that time ( exept for a little boost in hull for the galaxy the stats of both ship didn't change since ), and the star cruiser was already 6 month older.
every one was playing with the new separation console, and it was the first galaxy to be mass available at tiers 5, but when the shiny past out, everyone drop the ship 1 week later because of it crappy stats.
the galaxy never been the master of all trade, but in sto it alway have been the master of all fail, that for sure.
I need to do some tweaking but and you need to get the EPTX doffs for better cycling, and warp core doff for more power. + all the engineering traits. You also need to learn how to do without tact team.
being an engineer in a cruiser spec for tanking is what allow you to do without tactical team, that would not be the same story if you were a tactical captain.
but that also leave you very vunerable to a decloack alpha with photonic shocwave and tricobalt or any over new hight instant damage weapons, since you don't have the auxtodamp power or tact team to soft or hard conter them.
As an quite active contributor to the Galaxy thread I have to say that I am not in-line with the proposed changes.
I personally don't want to play a battleship when I play a Galaxy Class. I like the Star Cruiser theme, I would want a bit more room for sci abilities, though. If you want a Galaxy with 4 tac consoles and 2 sci consoles I'd be okay with the Dreadnaught filling that role but I would be upset if my R got it's 3rd sci slot removed.
The Galaxy is a balanced command ship. Either go 3/3/3 consoles and Star Cruiser BOFF layout for the R and 4/3/3 + one universal station for the fleet variant or even 4/4/2 (eng/sci/tac that is) and a LTC sci but I'm against the tactical powerhouse route just because that's the flavour of the game. That's why there is a "Dreadnaught". I mean even the heavy battlecruisers of the KDF have a eng heavy set-up (minus the recent power creep additions).
Turnrate has never been an issue for me personally and I don't get the obsession about it. You are free to seperate and/or use RCS consoles, that's what those are for. I absolutely get that you cannot compensate the lack of damage, but you can compensate the turnrate issue by in-game means.
I'm all for improving engineering skills across the board, however. Engineering skills are all about energy levels (rather obsolete now that every console and item boost power levels) and hull resistance. What about improvements to accuracy, damage, debuffs, drains, anything? I'd like some of that in the engineering branch and I'd love to see egnineering consoles improving damage so that a eng heavy ship can generate enough aggro to tank, if that's what it's supposed to be doing.
I don't like your 3/3/3 console set up plus the fleet version has an added console slot making it 10. The C-store Galaxy R should have 4/2/3. It works for the Galaxy X, and I can tank all day in that thing and sting back. The Galaxy R and Galaxy X are the same ship minus the weapons and cloak. Having cannons do make a big difference in making DPS becaue I tried to make my Galaxy X a beam boat and compared it with my current beam/cannon/DHC setup. The current setup came out on top and more kills than the all beam setup. I just had to use tractor beams to lock opponants into place so I can keep them in my foward arcs. Maybe The Galaxy X should come with a weapon damage modifier of 1.5 to make the difference but the Galaxy X assault style boff and console setup still out tanks the Galaxy R's Engeering useless style setup.
The Fleet Galaxy R comes 5/3/2 console setup and the exact same weak boff setup as the C-store version. It should be set up with 4/3/3 or 4/2/4 to give a beam boat teeth. There is no need for the ship to have 3 Sci consoles because it doesn't do Science spam at all. The BOFF layout shoud get cmdr Eng/LTC Tac/LTC Uni /LT Sci. There should not be a need for Ens BOFF slots on a tier 5 fleet ship since they are mostly weak ans useless.
I know the are alot of people out there trying to turn the Galaxy ship into a science ship but you forget that Picard, and Riker were tactical officers, along with Worf, the best at tactical systems, all packed in one bridge. Only one Ops officer(Data), one engineer(Laforge), and no science officer. Doctor Crushe occasionally doubled as science officer when new lifeforms was discoverd. Voyager was the crew that had her captain with Science background, and not other tactical experience besides Tuvoc. The all explore Enterprise got it's behind kicked in all first 4 seasons until Archer got fed up with being cannon fodder and started arming the ship with top of the line weapons to ward off the aggresive alien cultures.
There was no show with all Engineers on board.
Well noone listens to my explanation as they must be in denial as to it being why the galaxy will not get an update. Now if were talking about the galaxy-x then that will get an update with the fleet version but the galaxy will not.
Are you a DEV? If you are then, you need to post in the offical pink or yellow color name. If you just a player then, don't tell me what the DEVs will and will not do.
Comments
lol Well said.
A balanced command ship with the Saucer attached, yes.
A formidable combat vessel with the saucer detached, no?
Some Universal Console Slots and Bridge Officer Stations would give the Galaxy the versatility that was obviously intended with its saucer separation ability.
And all cruisers should have the ability to mount dual/heavy cannons. That should not be an arbitrary restriction, but a decision each captain makes for their own ship.
Now, my time watching Star Trek might be fuzzy, but I certainly don't remember Kirk or Picard telling their crewmates to fire the Enterprise's dual cannons like a bunch of gun-crazy nuts.
Now, Riker in the Galaxy-X, that's whole different story and we got that ship.
Frankly, I think it would be utterly stupid for any Cruiser outside of the Galaxy-X and the Avenger to run around with cannons, any sort of war be darned!
Boom. Now you have a more flexible ship, and nobody who loves the ship as is can complain, because they can still do the exact same thing with it now as they could before.
Get some earl grey, hot, and call it a day.
In the show the Galaxy was made in a time of peace. It was a luxury liner in space. No other ship in any series showed a ship designed with a school on it for kids. Most of the galaxy class ships blew up. There was one point where Wesley's school project almost blew up the ship. there were a few times where the Enterprise-D was only saved by Data's unique abilities where if he weren't there they would have blown up.
This ship was designed to do system patrols and chest thumping along the boarders to make people like the Romulans think twice.
There has also been a lot of people who think the Excelsior should not be more power. That ship was a war ship designed to fight Klingons. In DS9 the Defiant went head on head with the Lakota it was able to hold its own. the defiant killed many attack ships and when DS9 had the opportunity to show the galaxy off it was blown up once again.
This favoritism is not just in sto but is depicted in a few locations. The galaxy may have large numbers in cannon but it is not a war ship. It more of a case of too many options to be effective.
Most of what you write is a common misconception shared with people that (I think) fail to grasp the concept of Starfleet and the associated show.
In short: The Galaxy Class was no luxury liner. It was the pinnacle of Starfleet's ship design and stood for the ideals of Starfleet and the Federation. As Starfleet is not a military it's main task was Exploration and confronting the unknown and that's what the Galaxy Class was for. As she was intented to do that without any external support, crews assigned to those ships had to be ready to serve on these vessels for years and years without returning home. That's why they were allowed to take their families with them. Now, you have a ship loaded with the most precious "cargo" imaginable - that's why the ship was heavily armed in a way it would dwarf many people's military ships. That circumstance hindered first contact situations more than once because most other people's would recognize the ship as a humongous battleship by looking at it. Next to Exploration the ship was everything you needed it to be. It had huge storage potential, a detachable saucer with planetary landing capabilities, it could transport entire colonies, it had a huge number of labs and facilities and yes, it also had a school. Why are people harping on that school? It was a single friggin room on the ship, on a deck reserved for civlians that was dedicated to educate the children of those families that accompanied their Starfleet members for what, a decade? What's so bad about that?
I will however grant you that later in the series, when the Enterprise was more often than not charged with border patrols and muscle flexing, they could have left the families at a starbase
Does any of that mean that the ship in this game needs tactical superiority? Not in my opinion, especially since I think the class lacked the agility to be a full fledged battleship, but that's another story.
I think your idea of the Excelsior is also a misconception. Who said it was designed as a battleship versus Klingons? It was designed as a experiment for a new kind of warp drive. Other than that it was an explorer, a transport, a patrol vessel - it was not once stated it was in any way concieved tactically more capable than a constitution or even a miranda. It was bigger, more advanced and more vertasile but that's about it. And that also does in no way mean that it should be superior to a much newer and bigger ship in a game set in the 25th century. At least, the Exploration cruiser has 25th century refits available. The Excelsior still is a retrofitted, 120 year old ship. And what the Lakota recieved in terms of retrofits in the show, the Galaxies scrambled during the dominion war recieved pretty much the same, if not more (see the USS Venture).
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You should fly another ship once in a while and you will see that the Galaxy -R in STO just lacks at all ends.
Call it the Galaxy Class Command Cruiser or something. :P
I already know paxdawn believes it's game-breaking, but I completely disagree.
With this setup, I was shooting for versatility as a priority:
Hull: 40,000+
Shield Modifier: 1.0-1.15
Weapons: 4 Fore / 4 Aft
Crew: 1000
Device Slots: 4
Consoles: 3 Engineering; 3 Science; 3 Tactical; 1 Uni (I think a uni console would be a neat idea, but 3/3/3 at the least)
Turn Rate: 6-7
Bridge Stations:
. Cmdr Engineering: ####
. Lt. Engineering: ##
. Lt. Cmdr Science: ###
. Lt. Cmdr Tactical: ###
It would be VERY close to the D'Deridex-R. (Lt. Eng instead of Tac and Uni ensign stations).
The 2x Lt.Cmdr has already been done with the D'D-R, and Vo'Quv (+ Mirror), if not others.
And I don't believe it should mount dual cannons, as that should be reserved for the Gal-X variants. But that's just my opinion.
**puts 2 pennies on the table**
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
This was the most recent suggestion I had for a new Galaxy z-store ship. (posted in another thread)
Call it the Galaxy Class Command Cruiser or something.
I already know paxdawn believes it's game-breaking, but I completely disagree.
With this setup, I was shooting for versatility as a priority:
Hull: 40,000+
Shield Modifier: 1.0-1.15
Weapons: 4 Fore / 4 Aft
Crew: 1000
Device Slots: 4
Consoles: 3 Engineering; 3 Science; 3 Tactical; 1 Uni (I think a uni console would be a neat idea, but 3/3/3 at the least)
Turn Rate: 6-7
Bridge Stations:
. Cmdr Engineering: ####
. Lt. Engineering: ##
. Lt. Cmdr Science: ###
. Lt. Cmdr Tactical: ###
It would be VERY close to the D'Deridex-R. (Lt. Eng instead of Tac and Uni ensign stations).
The 2x Lt.Cmdr has already been done with the D'D-R, and Vo'Quv (+ Mirror), if not others.
And I don't believe it should mount dual cannons, as that should be reserved for the Gal-X variants. But that's just my opinion.
**puts 2 pennies on the table**
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
I truly shows how misinformed and fallacious your facts are. First of all You compoare a hafeh over a Galaxy R. It is like comparing apples and oranges. The Hafeh can be compared to a fed escort due to its turn 16 and Com Tac not any fed cruiser.
Secondly, Obelisk and Advanced Obelisk have both turn rate 5. Galaxy R has turn rate 6. In whatever math you have 6>5.
People bought Galaxy R for its current boff and console slots. these people are aware what they bought. No one forced you to buy or play the current Galaxy R. It fits a current playstyle and build which is contradictory to sci or tac playstyle or most galaxy r complainers, whiners in forums.
If these people who bought Galaxy R as it is are going to lose so much time and effort building a toon and build to maximize the ship, because some players just want to fit their playstyle, then so all other ships like escorts, sci ships, and all other non ENG Tank/healer build fed, romulan and klingon alike should be change their consoles and boff slots.
Its a good deal. all other ships transforms into Galaxy R stats while galaxy R transforms into ship stats that they want. Everybody gets what they want, and everybody loses their money and the time and effort they built for each of their toons and their ship.
The only part where I agree with you is that we ought not change the Gal-R.
People have already bought it. Changing it that in any significant way after the fact, I think, is just ethically wrong.
That said, sensationalism does not help your arguments.
Did anyone bring up a Galaxy class with Cmdr+Lt.Cmdr tac stations and 5 tac consoles?
You said it yourself: "It is like comparing apples and oranges."
Incidentally, the Tactical Bortas has 5 Tac Consoles. Possible Lt.Cmdr+Lt.+Ens Tac stations.
Fleet Adv. Heavy cruiser: 4. Lt.Cmdr Tac station.
Avenger/Mogh: 4. Possible Lt.Cmdr+Lt.+Ens Tac stations.
If you have such a beef with damage/Tac focused cruisers, then you are clearly barking up the wrong tree.
Where's your outrage on those other cruisers/battlecruisers?
It's me, Chrome. [Join Date: May 2009]
"Oh, I may be captain by rank... but I never wanted to be anything else but an engineer." ~Montgomery Scott~
Not necessarily for the Galaxy-R, but what I'd like as a non-Lobi option sometime would be CMDR Universal, Lt Engineering, Lt Science, Lt Tactical and Lt Universal.
I'm more than somewhat fed-up with the "you need dual cannons for best pew pew" thing. The entire starship weapon system desperately needs to be completely overhauled from the ground up.
Lt.Com Universal
Ensign Tactical
Commander Engineer
Lt. Engineer
Lt. Science
1 hangar of Danubes
BOOM! fixed! Your welcome. I'll be here all nite long, be sure and tip your waitress.
Never saw them calling for their dual beam banks or swapping out their warp cores, torpedoes, shields, engines... for something they acquired from the Borg either... or the Breen, Jen-Hadar, Voth...
I do recall them occasionally mentioning a weapon update, as new weapons were developed.
And seriously... is there any reason that dropping the Saucer would make the ship more "formidable", other than keeping targets in a narrow firing arc?
Kind of a selective application of your critique, isn't it? I never saw cannons on the Gal-X.
I am stupid.
I bought my Gal-R before the Odyssey was introduced. The game is not the same now as it was then. Although I may have been whining about it then too.
Why would I complain on the Bugship? I don't own one but I have killed a few in my day.
As to blocking the Galaxy from love, I'm not.
I'm making fun of the many posts that want the Galaxy to be a 5 Tac console, DPS Tac Boff monster like the Bugship while being the best Engineer healer since Scotty and the best Science power flinging wizard since Merlin all wrapped in armor like the Doomsday machine.
Frankly you TNG fans that cant pull common sense out of the scripted capabilities the Enterprise displayed onscreen are doing more to harm your cause than I am.
The Galaxy is not the master of all trades. It was the best at its time but that time has passed it by in STO. Stop trying to make it the Ubership and just make it a decent ship with a sensible purpose.
Seperate your blind fandom from your desires and you will get farther.
R.I.P
I got the stats from memory alpha. I could not find any other sites that are close to being canon thats get specific about the stats of the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought. All i find are game connected sites and even the speculate on weapons systems. Star Trek did a poor job of catalogging star ships so people have to speculate. Star Wars catalogged every piece of equipment, including all spacecraft on and off screen.
Ref: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Jem'Hadar_battleship
I own one and i have a hard time tanking a well built bug ship. Most times if i tank well, opponants start spamming me and subnuking me so i can't tank.
Maybe you need to share your build and we can try it out and see if it works or not.
Some videos would be nice, too.
Why are you generalizing all of us TNG fans? We all don't want the same thing, we post our idea to start a debate. Not once have you seen me ask for 5 tac consoles. I only ask for 4 tac consoles on the fleet version because it comes with an extra console and I don't think it needs 3 science consoles. The ship have weak science powers.
You don't care to make the Galaxy better than it is so don't come in here critisizing peoples ideas, because you don't have any of your own. We don't come in here complaining about your Klingon ships or asking them to be made different or nerfed.
This post was made TNG people can vent and debate on how the Galaxy should be revamp and made better.
You say you have killed a few bugs, so have I but I know they were not good built bugs. I play PVP anough to remember players if their ship were tough to survive against.
I bet you can't name some players with good Bug setups. I know a few infamous bug owners. Edna, Cryox, Lynk@zelda.
I know you are an all Klingon bais player. Separate yourself from your blind opposition from a competitive Galaxy or go back to your Klingon world and talk about those ships. No TNG fans go and wine about your Klingon ship ideas.
MY build doesn't work against all I think you may not understand that just becuase a ship can tank well, doesn't mean it will tank the best against every build, much less tank vs lots of builds at once.
Also there is a skill part of any build some people can make a build work that others can't or don't do as well.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=explorationtank_4992
I need to do some tweaking but and you need to get the EPTX doffs for better cycling, and warp core doff for more power. + all the engineering traits. You also need to learn how to do without tact team.
Keeping people off your tail and keeping them at a flank is must for any sort of dps. But I rarely die in pvp, also never die in pve and I do pretty good job of healing.
Subnuking is the bane of my build but with a good team who cross heals, there shouldn't be a problem.
Obviously you don't PVP much in a Galaxy or you would be embarressed or raging mad at how badly the setup is. I would even Challenge you myself I have to prove you wrong, but if you accept, you have to do it quickly because soon I will not have access to the forums one I get to China next week.
wrong. its healing and tanking ability is hamstrung by the low amount of system cooldowns available at ENS for eng, and the giveing up of extreamly valuable sci or tac skills at that level for something useless. also those 3 ENS eng lock out things like any EPtX3 skill, and ET3. with 3 station powers at LTC eng and above, your best choices at that level are blocked of use. you end up leaving an ENS station empty, or using a high end ENG station slot on something useless to you .and again, your missing out on a high end skill that would be actually helpful in ether at LTC for sci or tac.
an actual good tank station setup has at least as much sci as it does eng, like an ody with the LTC station used for sci. thats an actual good tank/healer.
i think i figured out what roach is going on about. when we are talking about tanking 3 bug ships in canon, we are not saying it should be able to do that in game, seeing as the bug is the best non battlecloaking escort in game. canon and in game are 2 different things, galaxy fans know that better then anyone believe me. non of us talking about the canon have made outrageous requests for revamps ether.
keep in mind though, things like 5 tactical consoles, several very high end universal stations, these are all par for the course on every new ship release. they are now the standard, not the exception. there is a bias against this ship because its been in game since nearly the beginning, and because its the galaxy class, and thus that brings with it a mountain of opinion baggage. before the lady doth protest too much, methinks, additionally, check your objectivity by those 2 factors :P
that statement is not logical, you can't be a tact boff monster while at the same time being a engi and science boff monster, if you have one, it is at the expense of an other, and i am not even speaking about turn rate and inertia, basic game mechanic.
so how can you make fun at a proposal that can not be?
that being said,i bielieve that the galaxy should not get 5 or 4, and even 3 tact console and a lt commander bo power.
not because one may think it would make it overpowered ( simple game mechaniqm comprehension allow you to anderstand why a 6 base turn and 25 inertia ship will not transform into a god ship because he receive 3 tact console and a lt commander tact slot, look at the odyssey for that ).
but because this will create a precedent, since the galaxy was move to the healing tanking area to the tact area, why woudn't we do it with the star cruiser then?
the star cruiser also only have a lt tact slot and 2 tact console, i see no reason why this ship didn't get love too while the galaxy do, i don't like favoritism.
and that will be for every other ship in the game that found themselves in this situation.
the galaxy should have been made tactical from the start, if you move it to that area now, every other ship that are in the same situation will ask to get the same treatement and rightfully so.
and we will then all flying different iteration of a tactical ship with absolutly no other gameplay choices, this is a reduction in gameplay diversity, that will be a lost for the game.
that should have been the reason you could have come up to if you want to make fun of some of us, but stating that we want a god ship stats?
even the more overpowered "serious" proposal are far from this.
and sorry but i will have to kill this legend right now.
the galaxy NEVER been the best at it time.
i have been here since game launch, so you will not going to fool me on this, that could work with the F2P players, not with me.
let me refresh you memory, the galaxy retrofit was launch at season 2: ancient enemy and was available to player with a token that you can obtain by reaching the new level cap of vice admiral 51 ( at that time ) or directly in cstore.
it was already less efficient at tanking than a star cruiser at that time ( exept for a little boost in hull for the galaxy the stats of both ship didn't change since ), and the star cruiser was already 6 month older.
every one was playing with the new separation console, and it was the first galaxy to be mass available at tiers 5, but when the shiny past out, everyone drop the ship 1 week later because of it crappy stats.
the galaxy never been the master of all trade, but in sto it alway have been the master of all fail, that for sure.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
being an engineer in a cruiser spec for tanking is what allow you to do without tactical team, that would not be the same story if you were a tactical captain.
but that also leave you very vunerable to a decloack alpha with photonic shocwave and tricobalt or any over new hight instant damage weapons, since you don't have the auxtodamp power or tact team to soft or hard conter them.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
I don't like your 3/3/3 console set up plus the fleet version has an added console slot making it 10. The C-store Galaxy R should have 4/2/3. It works for the Galaxy X, and I can tank all day in that thing and sting back. The Galaxy R and Galaxy X are the same ship minus the weapons and cloak. Having cannons do make a big difference in making DPS becaue I tried to make my Galaxy X a beam boat and compared it with my current beam/cannon/DHC setup. The current setup came out on top and more kills than the all beam setup. I just had to use tractor beams to lock opponants into place so I can keep them in my foward arcs. Maybe The Galaxy X should come with a weapon damage modifier of 1.5 to make the difference but the Galaxy X assault style boff and console setup still out tanks the Galaxy R's Engeering useless style setup.
The Fleet Galaxy R comes 5/3/2 console setup and the exact same weak boff setup as the C-store version. It should be set up with 4/3/3 or 4/2/4 to give a beam boat teeth. There is no need for the ship to have 3 Sci consoles because it doesn't do Science spam at all. The BOFF layout shoud get cmdr Eng/LTC Tac/LTC Uni /LT Sci. There should not be a need for Ens BOFF slots on a tier 5 fleet ship since they are mostly weak ans useless.
I know the are alot of people out there trying to turn the Galaxy ship into a science ship but you forget that Picard, and Riker were tactical officers, along with Worf, the best at tactical systems, all packed in one bridge. Only one Ops officer(Data), one engineer(Laforge), and no science officer. Doctor Crushe occasionally doubled as science officer when new lifeforms was discoverd. Voyager was the crew that had her captain with Science background, and not other tactical experience besides Tuvoc. The all explore Enterprise got it's behind kicked in all first 4 seasons until Archer got fed up with being cannon fodder and started arming the ship with top of the line weapons to ward off the aggresive alien cultures.
There was no show with all Engineers on board.
Are you a DEV? If you are then, you need to post in the offical pink or yellow color name. If you just a player then, don't tell me what the DEVs will and will not do.