I noticed it..
I wont complain anymore about it, the Devs dont care about PvP.. Ill just zerg through the unwinnable matches, instead of fighting a fight that cannot be won.. Neither option is much fun for me, so might as well take the quickest.
I agree with what you said yesterday in zone, but I don't think removing shields is in your best interest. I think it would be far more constructive if you were to ride out the storm, and make zone comments directing people to these kind of threads.
I understand your frustration with PvP at the moment, most of us will, and I agree with you when you mention the lack of developer attention, but in my opinion this is the only contructive thing we can do 'in game' to highlight the issue.
I'm in no position to ask/tell anyone in my group of friends to 'not use' something, and many many groups will use it no matter what, until it becomes more balanced.
I'd really like to think that being a decent PvP community person, you would reconsider your position on the shield thing.
I'd really like to think that being a decent PvP community person, you would reconsider your position on the shield thing.
My point is, what does it matter..
With shields I die in 15 seconds.
Without them I die in 5.
The instant I enter the match, the result is given.. Particular if, as yesterday, Im ungrouped with 4 guys, most of them not bothering to fight.
Do you suggest I make a nice show at fighting a TSI/DOB premade, alone?
Thats the problem.. The PvP match was pointless.. We might as well just have loaded into the match and your team instantly got a popup saying "Good job, you won" and we would have gotten a "Sorry, you lose.. Insert coin to try again"
Shields or no shields, it doesnt change a thing... You know as well as I do, that regardless of what I had done, that match was a 0/15 loss.. I suppose I could have tried to rely on 15 uber BOL crits to win, but.. Really?
Shields or no shields, it doesnt change a thing... You know as well as I do, that regardless of what I had done, that match was a 0/15 loss.. I suppose I could have tried to rely on 15 uber BOL crits to win, but.. Really?
You know that FAW isn't the problem here. (Bad) PUG vs semi-premade has been 0/15 even before FAW came along.
You know that FAW isn't the problem here. (Bad) PUG vs semi-premade has been 0/15 even before FAW came along.
True.. But atleast I could have a feeling I *might* have killed something before I blew up..
The thought yesterday was more like: This is insufferably boring.. Why are they doing this, they can beat anyone without needing to use these skills. I can understand why a **** fleet would use it, only way they can compete and all.. But TSI?
If the intent was to bore me to death, bore me so much I contemplate scrapping my sub.. Then well done, job accomplished.
But removing shields is tant amount to waiving your right to ever complain about any griefing/emblem farming etc etc...
I'm not trying to be unkind to you, I just don't think it's in your, or PvP's best interest right now.
On the other hand, I see FAW using as bad as idleing the matches..
I get that you want to prove a point, but you are close to driving people away, I was I
> <-I close to deleting my toons (so I wouldnt get tempted again) and cancel the sub, and I only play this game for PvP.. We dont need less PvPers, we need more.
FAW or SSing everybody to tears doesnt really help that matter.
On the other hand, I see FAW using as bad as idleing the matches..
I get that you want to prove a point, but you are close to driving people away, I was I
> <-I close to deleting my toons (so I wouldnt get tempted again) and cancel the sub, and I only play this game for PvP.. We dont need less PvPers, we need more.
FAW or SSing everybody to tears doesnt really help that matter.
La Familia pride themselves in not telling their players what to slot or fly, generally, we do not do this either, unless it is league play, we run a team made up of whomever happen to be online at the time.
Yesterday there were two players (I think) using FAW in our group, tonight there may be 5, who knows? I have no control over that whatsoever. If all PvP fleets were to scrap FAW it would be great - but this is the internet, and we both know that it isn't going to happen while the ability remains as it is currently.
I take some encouragement that Heinig has posted on the FAW topic this morning, and hope that a fix is planned or in the works asap. Until then I hope you will ride out the storm along with the rest of us, keep your sub, and hope that the next time we see you, you will have your shields up!
The problem with dropping shields to forfeit a match is - everyone could do this for any reason. There aren't any objective criteria to base it on. If things don't get my way, I just throw myself on the ground and hammer my fists on the ground until I get what I want?
It is dangerous. Just as dangerous unfortunately as using the power, "I am just an ****** because the Devs made this mistake" is bad too. Unforuntately, "Let's not use this power and then no one will complain and it will forever be ununusable by any decent human being" is not good, either.
Maybe the best thing is to do to really act according to own ideals of behavior. I find using broken abilities wrong. And I will not use them. I trust that there will be enough other people not up to my standards of behavior that the ability will be abused enough to bother people.
In the end- being beaten 15-0 by TSI or QEW means little, that would probably have happened with or without the broken ability. So does it really achieve anything? Or will people just assume: "TSI is always using the latest broken stuff, don't bother?"
There are no ideal solutions. The only thing that could help would be a consistent dialog with the Devs, consistent evaluation of server statistics on build choices and results before and after patches.
I get that you want to prove a point, but you are close to driving people away, I was I
> <-I close to deleting my toons (so I wouldnt get tempted again) and cancel the sub, and I only play this game for PvP.. We dont need less PvPers, we need more.
FAW has already driven away a large number of pvp'ers, with its huge increase in numbers of people using it, it will just get worse as the only people leaving are the none FAW users.
I was thrilled to see JHenig's response in Mustrum's other thread about forming a consensus:cool:. Personally, I'd like to see BFAW turned into the MODERATE damage target clearing ability that it had been. Beams have enough skills that add their own flavor to the game without needing one that does high damage and high speed. I am worried though, that whatever we do manage to get fixed is going to need yet another adjustment whenever Cryptic can get around to fixing spam.
For example, how would a new(er) FAW work if down the road object spam (heavy torps, small mines, etc) was given a standard defense rating so that they would still take only one hit to kill but shot could actually miss? Is the current BFAW mechanic ok if a) the secondary pulses did significantly less damage, and b) those secondary pulses had a chance to miss (like everything)?
I was thrilled to see JHenig's response in Mustrum's other thread about forming a consensus:cool:. Personally, I'd like to see BFAW turned into the MODERATE damage target clearing ability that it had been. Beams have enough skills that add their own flavor to the game without needing one that does high damage and high speed. I am worried though, that whatever we do manage to get fixed is going to need yet another adjustment whenever Cryptic can get around to fixing spam.
For example, how would a new(er) FAW work if down the road object spam (heavy torps, small mines, etc) was given a standard defense rating so that they would still take only one hit to kill but shot could actually miss? Is the current BFAW mechanic ok if a) the secondary pulses did significantly less damage, and b) those secondary pulses had a chance to miss (like everything)?
This is not the time to start first-guessing ourselves!
Old FAW was proven not OP, I think reverting to it can be done safely. Also, tieing the original damage to the primary target does not raise any problems that I can see...
This is not the time to start first-guessing ourselves!
Old FAW was proven not OP, I think reverting to it can be done safely. Also, tieing the original damage to the primary target does not raise any problems that I can see...
Maybe it's selfish of me to say since I don't use BFAW, but I'm all for reverting it back to the last bit. I'm just trying to be thorough, lol.
How it works now is perfectly fine, minus the damage bonus.
It is by far the best spam clearing ability, and the fire rate is quite in line with what we saw the Enterprise do in several TNG episodes. The only thing that can't be justified is the damage boost to every beam it fires. It's wrong when I can do more damage in a short amount of time with my escort's 3 aft beam arrays using FAW than I can with my 2 heavy cannons and dual beam forward.
It would be fine if every shot did standard beam damage, so long as the power drain stays the same. But this line of thinking also goes into setting a true hard cap on weapon power...it's absurd that a cruiser can get away with running 140 power to weapons without suffering a severe deficiency in shield/engine power.
I hope you are all well.
Faw by itself isnt a problem, its the rampant abuse of the combination:
5x Dual Beam Bank (Scimiatar or Avenger) or 6-9 beam arrays (Cruiser)
Aux 2 Bat
Fire at Will
Directed Energy Modulation
Emergency Power to Weapons
Alpha
Omega
Tactical Team
Reputation Bleed through Bonuses
That is causing a lot of grief for people in PvP. If you ever go into a match and are spawn camped by such a build it is very aggravating.
The issue comes back to the Devs, BALANCE needs to be a priority in the game. PvE'ers don't complain about such abilities because those abilities are not being abused on them, so their feedback will be strictly from a standpoint of npc interaction.
PvP'ers have these abilities directly affect their game play (weather it be faw, BO doffs, Subnuke Doffs the list goes on and on and on...) hence why there is usually much upheaval about certain abilities and combinations of abilities. The fact that the Devs are very slow and sluggish to react to such (supposedly) tested game mechanics is what results in complaints on the forums.
Ideally the Devs need to find a way to separate the rules of PvP and PvE to appease all forms of game play and need to work on striking a balanced system. To ensure this system, the need to practice a rigorous program of quality control, to ensure that before ANYTHING goes live on Holodeck, all bugs, imbalances and abuses are dealt with on the Tribble Test server, is a must.
I do understand we do not live in an ideal world, but it seems like the developers are more than willing to produce a brand new season that will wow us for a good 2 weeks (that is of coarse if you can log into the game without a lengthy queue), than even attempting to ensure some small form of quality control on these and ongoing issues.
Those who end up suffering are the customers and fans of Star Trek Online. Thank you all for reading this post and to the Devs, please prove me wrong by making an active effort to positively interact with your community by producing a balanced, high quality game, rather than flashy mini expansions that become rapidly stale.
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
Stop calling nerf, start asking for help.
People can help you to tank better, they can help you to do more DPS.
And yes, you necroed the thread. If the OP is "Archived post", please don't post...
I mainly fly escorts and and I can counter faw with rsp and tss.
But the problem is escorts powers like crf and csv are very powerful and without faw cruiser captains don't stand a chance. that's what this is mainly about. Some escort captains are sad they don't get easy one-shot kills on cruisers.
I mainly fly escorts and and I can counter faw with rsp and tss.
But the problem is escorts powers like crf and csv are very powerful and without faw cruiser captains don't stand a chance. that's what this is mainly about. Some escort captains are sad they don't get easy one-shot kills on cruisers.
But please lock this thread its a old dead horse.
Now they are sad that putting there escorts in the garage and running cruisers instead... double and sometimes triples there dps. Its sort of stupid.
"Necro thread" means Stop Posting. Not IBL. You're all spamming.
Please remember to check the dates of threads; and if you find an old thread which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies or has been inactive for over 30 days before someone replied to it just report it and avoid posting in it.
Please bear in mind that re-posting in "necro'd" threads is considered a form of spamming.
Note that you're more than welcome to post in an existing active topic or to start a new thread on the topic (if there are no active topics).
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Comments
but, it's working! jHeinig just made a post about FAW in the PvP section!!!
finally! a dev post in the PvP section that did not close a thread or ban a poster! Our prayers (read:whining) have been heard!
Sir, I would if I could, but where do we vote?
I agree with what you said yesterday in zone, but I don't think removing shields is in your best interest. I think it would be far more constructive if you were to ride out the storm, and make zone comments directing people to these kind of threads.
I understand your frustration with PvP at the moment, most of us will, and I agree with you when you mention the lack of developer attention, but in my opinion this is the only contructive thing we can do 'in game' to highlight the issue.
I'm in no position to ask/tell anyone in my group of friends to 'not use' something, and many many groups will use it no matter what, until it becomes more balanced.
I'd really like to think that being a decent PvP community person, you would reconsider your position on the shield thing.
My point is, what does it matter..
With shields I die in 15 seconds.
Without them I die in 5.
The instant I enter the match, the result is given.. Particular if, as yesterday, Im ungrouped with 4 guys, most of them not bothering to fight.
Do you suggest I make a nice show at fighting a TSI/DOB premade, alone?
Thats the problem.. The PvP match was pointless.. We might as well just have loaded into the match and your team instantly got a popup saying "Good job, you won" and we would have gotten a "Sorry, you lose.. Insert coin to try again"
Shields or no shields, it doesnt change a thing... You know as well as I do, that regardless of what I had done, that match was a 0/15 loss.. I suppose I could have tried to rely on 15 uber BOL crits to win, but.. Really?
You know that FAW isn't the problem here. (Bad) PUG vs semi-premade has been 0/15 even before FAW came along.
What's 10 seconds between friends?
I see your point, really I do!
But removing shields is tant amount to waiving your right to ever complain about any griefing/emblem farming etc etc...
I'm not trying to be unkind to you, I just don't think it's in your, or PvP's best interest right now.
True.. But atleast I could have a feeling I *might* have killed something before I blew up..
The thought yesterday was more like: This is insufferably boring.. Why are they doing this, they can beat anyone without needing to use these skills. I can understand why a **** fleet would use it, only way they can compete and all.. But TSI?
If the intent was to bore me to death, bore me so much I contemplate scrapping my sub.. Then well done, job accomplished.
On the other hand, I see FAW using as bad as idleing the matches..
I get that you want to prove a point, but you are close to driving people away, I was I
> <-I close to deleting my toons (so I wouldnt get tempted again) and cancel the sub, and I only play this game for PvP.. We dont need less PvPers, we need more.
FAW or SSing everybody to tears doesnt really help that matter.
La Familia pride themselves in not telling their players what to slot or fly, generally, we do not do this either, unless it is league play, we run a team made up of whomever happen to be online at the time.
Yesterday there were two players (I think) using FAW in our group, tonight there may be 5, who knows? I have no control over that whatsoever. If all PvP fleets were to scrap FAW it would be great - but this is the internet, and we both know that it isn't going to happen while the ability remains as it is currently.
I take some encouragement that Heinig has posted on the FAW topic this morning, and hope that a fix is planned or in the works asap. Until then I hope you will ride out the storm along with the rest of us, keep your sub, and hope that the next time we see you, you will have your shields up!
It is dangerous. Just as dangerous unfortunately as using the power, "I am just an ****** because the Devs made this mistake" is bad too. Unforuntately, "Let's not use this power and then no one will complain and it will forever be ununusable by any decent human being" is not good, either.
Maybe the best thing is to do to really act according to own ideals of behavior. I find using broken abilities wrong. And I will not use them. I trust that there will be enough other people not up to my standards of behavior that the ability will be abused enough to bother people.
In the end- being beaten 15-0 by TSI or QEW means little, that would probably have happened with or without the broken ability. So does it really achieve anything? Or will people just assume: "TSI is always using the latest broken stuff, don't bother?"
There are no ideal solutions. The only thing that could help would be a consistent dialog with the Devs, consistent evaluation of server statistics on build choices and results before and after patches.
FAW has already driven away a large number of pvp'ers, with its huge increase in numbers of people using it, it will just get worse as the only people leaving are the none FAW users.
It'll only be FAW v FAW pretty soon.
RIP STO PvP, it was fun while it lasted.
You have to go to LA, on the corner of Cryptic Studios there is a green mailbox...
I have no idea where to vote, so I vote everywhere!
For example, how would a new(er) FAW work if down the road object spam (heavy torps, small mines, etc) was given a standard defense rating so that they would still take only one hit to kill but shot could actually miss? Is the current BFAW mechanic ok if a) the secondary pulses did significantly less damage, and b) those secondary pulses had a chance to miss (like everything)?
This is not the time to start first-guessing ourselves!
Old FAW was proven not OP, I think reverting to it can be done safely. Also, tieing the original damage to the primary target does not raise any problems that I can see...
Maybe it's selfish of me to say since I don't use BFAW, but I'm all for reverting it back to the last bit. I'm just trying to be thorough, lol.
It is by far the best spam clearing ability, and the fire rate is quite in line with what we saw the Enterprise do in several TNG episodes. The only thing that can't be justified is the damage boost to every beam it fires. It's wrong when I can do more damage in a short amount of time with my escort's 3 aft beam arrays using FAW than I can with my 2 heavy cannons and dual beam forward.
It would be fine if every shot did standard beam damage, so long as the power drain stays the same. But this line of thinking also goes into setting a true hard cap on weapon power...it's absurd that a cruiser can get away with running 140 power to weapons without suffering a severe deficiency in shield/engine power.
I hope you are all well.
Faw by itself isnt a problem, its the rampant abuse of the combination:
5x Dual Beam Bank (Scimiatar or Avenger) or 6-9 beam arrays (Cruiser)
Aux 2 Bat
Fire at Will
Directed Energy Modulation
Emergency Power to Weapons
Alpha
Omega
Tactical Team
Reputation Bleed through Bonuses
That is causing a lot of grief for people in PvP. If you ever go into a match and are spawn camped by such a build it is very aggravating.
The issue comes back to the Devs, BALANCE needs to be a priority in the game. PvE'ers don't complain about such abilities because those abilities are not being abused on them, so their feedback will be strictly from a standpoint of npc interaction.
PvP'ers have these abilities directly affect their game play (weather it be faw, BO doffs, Subnuke Doffs the list goes on and on and on...) hence why there is usually much upheaval about certain abilities and combinations of abilities. The fact that the Devs are very slow and sluggish to react to such (supposedly) tested game mechanics is what results in complaints on the forums.
Ideally the Devs need to find a way to separate the rules of PvP and PvE to appease all forms of game play and need to work on striking a balanced system. To ensure this system, the need to practice a rigorous program of quality control, to ensure that before ANYTHING goes live on Holodeck, all bugs, imbalances and abuses are dealt with on the Tribble Test server, is a must.
I do understand we do not live in an ideal world, but it seems like the developers are more than willing to produce a brand new season that will wow us for a good 2 weeks (that is of coarse if you can log into the game without a lengthy queue), than even attempting to ensure some small form of quality control on these and ongoing issues.
Those who end up suffering are the customers and fans of Star Trek Online. Thank you all for reading this post and to the Devs, please prove me wrong by making an active effort to positively interact with your community by producing a balanced, high quality game, rather than flashy mini expansions that become rapidly stale.
Thanks and Best regards,
-Pyro - (@CarbonBlack)
People can help you to tank better, they can help you to do more DPS.
And yes, you necroed the thread. If the OP is "Archived post", please don't post...
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
My apologies, i did not notice that the post had been archived.
I mainly fly escorts and and I can counter faw with rsp and tss.
But the problem is escorts powers like crf and csv are very powerful and without faw cruiser captains don't stand a chance. that's what this is mainly about. Some escort captains are sad they don't get easy one-shot kills on cruisers.
But please lock this thread its a old dead horse.
[/SIGPIC]
So your saying... get in a cruiser like everyone else and join the light show.
Perfect advice. lmao
Now they are sad that putting there escorts in the garage and running cruisers instead... double and sometimes triples there dps. Its sort of stupid.
"Necro thread" means Stop Posting. Not IBL. You're all spamming.
Please remember to check the dates of threads; and if you find an old thread which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies or has been inactive for over 30 days before someone replied to it just report it and avoid posting in it.
Please bear in mind that re-posting in "necro'd" threads is considered a form of spamming.
Note that you're more than welcome to post in an existing active topic or to start a new thread on the topic (if there are no active topics).
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek