Good luck finding that synergy in the PvP community now. Besides a few fleets everyone has been PuGing.
528th PvPs regularly . So do most of the frequently seen fleets like 7th Core and Elite Maquis Squadron. And if I wasn't in 528th I'd still PvP regularly. Though having multiple science ships isn't the only way to win. 2 good science ships and 3 escorts can faceroll a FAW team. Even 1 sci ship and 2 escorts can devastate a disorganized team.
I do find it annoying when you have two teams with cruiser and 1 or 2 escorts on each side...then only the escorts ever die, and they get mad because of it. Cheer up though people...it won't be broken forever.
I haven't a clue. I hardly ever see any TSI guys around anyway. Mostly just pugs, 7th Core, and it you're on at around 3am my time, you'll see EMS. It's nice to see good PvP fleets still playing though, it keeps things from being utterly boring.
We at the 528th are a social casual fleet. We enjoy the game, all facets of it, and the great part is we always have fun.
Before FAW...
It was Spam!
Before SPAM
It was Gravity well + Scramble Sensors!
Before GW + SS
It was SUB NUC + VM
Etc. etc.
I ask you, why get so worked up about a system that is always changing? You can continuously adapt, as TSI does regularly. I know, they face-rolled our Win at will team multiple times! We had a good laugh about it, do you know why?
Next month, when FAW get's nerfed, it'll be something else!
We at the 528th are a social casual fleet. We enjoy the game, all facets of it, and the great part is we always have fun.
Before FAW...
It was Spam!
Before SPAM
It was Gravity well + Scramble Sensors!
Before GW + SS
It was SUB NUC + VM
Etc. etc.
I ask you, why get so worked up about a system that is always changing? You can continuously adapt, as TSI does regularly. I know, they face-rolled our Win at will team multiple times! We had a good laugh about it, do you know why?
Next month, when FAW get's nerfed, it'll be something else!
My 2 EC.
Enjoy!
The system is changing because we do this type of complains. The only adaption to the old Subnuke/VM combo was to use it yourself and hope you were pressing your buttons a little quicker then the others.
That lead to those skills being changed.
The goal of the complaints is that we can stop complaining and have various possible builds that all can be countered and you cannot necessarily predict how you can beat any team until you meet it and try to adapt on the fly.
Having to adapt to one uber build only is not the satisfying solution. Even if it's possible, it still means you only have to care about two builds - the uber build and the only build that can hope to counter it. All the rest of abiltiies are just red herrings. I am sure QEW and TSI can adapt to that easily - but will they enjoy the games they play from that point on? Probably not for long.
And it's not like TSI or QEW are pretending these abilities are fine. ON the contrary. They also voice their concerns.
The system is changing because we do this type of complains. The only adaption to the old Subnuke/VM combo was to use it yourself and hope you were pressing your buttons a little quicker then the others.
That lead to those skills being changed.
The goal of the complaints is that we can stop complaining and have various possible builds that all can be countered and you cannot necessarily predict how you can beat any team until you meet it and try to adapt on the fly.
Having to adapt to one uber build only is not the satisfying solution. Even if it's possible, it still means you only have to care about two builds - the uber build and the only build that can hope to counter it. All the rest of abiltiies are just red herrings. I am sure QEW and TSI can adapt to that easily - but will they enjoy the games they play from that point on? Probably not for long.
And it's not like TSI or QEW are pretending these abilities are fine. ON the contrary. They also voice their concerns.
And they avoid abusing it.. Thats the difference between the good fleets and the bad ones.
The system is changing because we do this type of complains. The only adaption to the old Subnuke/VM combo was to use it yourself and hope you were pressing your buttons a little quicker then the others.
That lead to those skills being changed.
The goal of the complaints is that we can stop complaining and have various possible builds that all can be countered and you cannot necessarily predict how you can beat any team until you meet it and try to adapt on the fly.
Having to adapt to one uber build only is not the satisfying solution. Even if it's possible, it still means you only have to care about two builds - the uber build and the only build that can hope to counter it. All the rest of abiltiies are just red herrings. I am sure QEW and TSI can adapt to that easily - but will they enjoy the games they play from that point on? Probably not for long.
And it's not like TSI or QEW are pretending these abilities are fine. ON the contrary. They also voice their concerns.
I agree. However, complaints are not where this ends. People are getting angry and vitriol is spewing over something insignificant. PVP fleets are imploding all over the place over something in a video game. Expectations are also wildly out of whack with reality!
Is this not a virtual environment?
Adaptation isn't satisfying? And here I thought we are at our best overcoming "insurmountable" goals!
The ability is broken, Mustrum, I knew it from the very moment I saw it on Tribble. You know on the flip side, at least we don't have to hear about people complaining about SPAM!
When those in control get to it, and they WILL, it will be done and over with. Constructive critisicm makes sense. It is, logical. Pointing the finger at various communities supporting this wonderful game, how does that help anything?
People paid to play the game, and have the right to play it as they choose. Should you be frustrated by FAW, or WIn at Will as I like to call it, the only logical recourse is to constructively complain to the ones in charge, no?
Or you can tear at each other emotionally over a.. video game. In this scenario, there are no winners.
Back to my original message! Have fun, live long, and Fire at Will; or not!
And they avoid abusing it.. Thats the difference between the good fleets and the bad ones.
Are you basing your judgement and perception of various communities in STO based on the criteria that they do or do not use FAW?
That's extreme prejudice my dear, and not at all very logical To each their own of course, we love running with Lafamilia in PVP. You have some really talented players, and usually are very cordial!
Also, we will continue to like you irrespective of what virtual in-game powers you use, rest assured
That goes for everyone else... I judge people by their attitude; not solely by their actions in a purely fictional virtual environment. Over which we have only a limited control!
Edit: On a sidenote Meline, that is one epic crit, I only see numbers that big with AP!
I agree. However, complaints are not where this ends. People are getting angry and vitriol is spewing over something insignificant. PVP fleets are imploding all over the place over something in a video game. Expectations are also wildly out of whack with reality!
it is unfortuantely human nature to engage into hyperbole and vitriol. At least for some humans.
People can get angry over the most irrelevant things. I know it, Soccer is pretty popular here in Germany.
I think it is important that some voices try to stay reasonable and bring back calmness into the situation.
Are you basing your judgement and perception of various communities in STO based on the criteria that they do or do not use FAW?
That's extreme prejudice my dear, and not at all very logical To each their own of course, we love running with Lafamilia in PVP. You have some really talented players, and usually are very cordial!
Also, we will continue to like you irrespective of what virtual in-game powers you use, rest assured
That goes for everyone else... I judge people by their attitude; not solely by their actions in a purely fictional virtual environment. Over which we have only a limited control!
Edit: On a sidenote Meline, that is one epic crit, I only see numbers that big with AP!
I dont like or dislike people, based on what they use.. I respect those people that realize this or that power is OTT, the ones that know it and dont care, Im indifferent about, but.. When those same people go around talking like they're the next gen TSIs, I cannot ignore it.
Ive read a lot of posts by the 528th, and find the following facts interesting:
1: Before New FAW I hadnt heard about or seen the 528th.
2: First encounter with the 528th (3 LF 2 PUG I believe), they won a straight up fight (15-6), where the dominant powers they used were FAW, SS3 and GW, I mean even the 528th Fleet Escort were running arrays and chained FAW3.
3: Every single time Ive met 528th since then have been in PUGs, and 2 things stand out.. They all used FAW and they all did relatively bad (no offense).
Now.. I havent played as much as I would like to, Im a professionel soldier, and Im.. Absent from time to time... I might just have been unlucky, met you guys in the wrong matches.. And the 528th does infact *not* (ab)use FAW extensively/predominantly.
If thats the case, my apologies.
As for the crit, yeah.. Tetryon is the prettiest energytype.. My best was a 97k BOL3 crit with a MK X AP DBB [CrtD] x2.. Nothing beats oneshotting a fullhull/shield cruiser straight through a RSP
I ask you, why get so worked up about a system that is always changing? You can continuously adapt, as TSI does regularly. I know, they face-rolled our Win at will team multiple times! We had a good laugh about it, do you know why?[/COLOR][/B]
None of the previously imbalanced skills have ever been this easy to employ. You can take any person off the street and replace a player, and noone would know the difference.
Yes, I could "adapt" and start using FAW myself... In fact I did.. For two whole matches, and I was bored to tears and beyond! No challenge, no skill needed, no fun.
I used to PvP 2-4 hours every day before New-FAW. Over the last 10 days I've fought two matches.
With New-FAW, PvP simply isn't fun anymore... It's about as challenging as flipping a coin. And as soon as unskilled players get over the thrill of suddenly winning a lot, they're going to realize that. Hope it won't be too late...
None of the previously imbalanced skills have ever been this easy to employ. You can take any person off the street and replace a player, and noone would know the difference.
Yes, I could "adapt" and start using FAW myself... In fact I did.. For two whole matches, and I was bored to tears and beyond! No challenge, no skill needed, no fun.
I used to PvP 2-4 hours every day before New-FAW. Over the last 10 days I've fought two matches.
With New-FAW, PvP simply isn't fun anymore... It's about as challenging as flipping a coin. And as soon as unskilled players get over the thrill of suddenly winning a lot, they're going to realize that. Hope it won't be too late...
Heh.. I lasted one match..
15 kills
0 deaths
524k damage
2XX Healing
All I did was turning left and flying in a circle around the fight spamming spacebar.. Not once was I close to dying, not once did I have to use a heal. The opponents simply melted.
None of the previously imbalanced skills have ever been this easy to employ. You can take any person off the street and replace a player, and noone would know the difference.
Yes, I could "adapt" and start using FAW myself... In fact I did.. For two whole matches, and I was bored to tears and beyond! No challenge, no skill needed, no fun.
I used to PvP 2-4 hours every day before New-FAW. Over the last 10 days I've fought two matches.
With New-FAW, PvP simply isn't fun anymore... It's about as challenging as flipping a coin. And as soon as unskilled players get over the thrill of suddenly winning a lot, they're going to realize that. Hope it won't be too late...
Yeah it is funny how many people switched to the Monkey Boat setup this weekend. Thursday and Friday night I was melting ships with my Raptor, come saturday and sunday those same players jumped into Monkey Boats. And I was getting melted. I am really close to staying logged out permanently. There is nothing in game to keep my attention I refuse to be a sheep and go to the probably the most broken FOTM build since BTXS could stack. This game has done one hell of a job beating the "care" out of me and I have been resigned to apathy and disgust.
1: Before New FAW I hadnt heard about or seen the 528th.
2: First encounter with the 528th (3 LF 2 PUG I believe), they won a straight up fight (15-6), where the dominant powers they used were FAW, SS3 and GW, I mean even the 528th Fleet Escort were running arrays and chained FAW3.
3: Every single time Ive met 528th since then have been in PUGs, and 2 things stand out.. They all used FAW and they all did relatively bad (no offense).
Small supplement - if you let me - Meline
4: Last time i've saw their premade, they all used: FAW 3, SS (2 or 3 copies), GW and.....hundreds of mines - typical easy mode.
I dont like or dislike people, based on what they use.. I respect those people that realize this or that power is OTT, the ones that know it and dont care, Im indifferent about, but.. When those same people go around talking like they're the next gen TSIs, I cannot ignore it.
Ive read a lot of posts by the 528th, and find the following facts interesting:
1: Before New FAW I hadnt heard about or seen the 528th.
2: First encounter with the 528th (3 LF 2 PUG I believe), they won a straight up fight (15-6), where the dominant powers they used were FAW, SS3 and GW, I mean even the 528th Fleet Escort were running arrays and chained FAW3.
3: Every single time Ive met 528th since then have been in PUGs, and 2 things stand out.. They all used FAW and they all did relatively bad (no offense).
Now.. I havent played as much as I would like to, Im a professionel soldier, and Im.. Absent from time to time... I might just have been unlucky, met you guys in the wrong matches.. And the 528th does infact *not* (ab)use FAW extensively/predominantly.
If thats the case, my apologies.
As for the crit, yeah.. Tetryon is the prettiest energytype.. My best was a 97k BOL3 crit with a MK X AP DBB [CrtD] x2.. Nothing beats oneshotting a fullhull/shield cruiser straight through a RSP
97k huh, pics or it didn't happen :P
Most of the 528th community doesn't take pvp as seriously as some members of the STO community. And that's fine. Just as it is fine for you to take it seriously.
We don't disparage people or communities for using abilities, or camping Kerrat. That's pointless, and helps no one.
I remember way back when a Klingon Fleet, RZR, was in Ker'rat every day. Camping it. People were whining in here and the vitriol was flying. And the 528th went into Ker'rat anyway, because it was fun to pit ourselves against the klinks and break their hold over Ker'rat!
Anyway, I'm sure we'll debate (respectfully) over the next broken FOTM power or build!
Most of the 528th community doesn't take pvp as seriously as some members of the STO community. And that's fine. Just as it is fine for you to take it seriously.
We don't disparage people or communities for using abilities, or camping Kerrat. That's pointless, and helps no one.
I remember way back when a Klingon Fleet, RZR, was in Ker'rat every day. Camping it. People were whining in here and the vitriol was flying. And the 528th went into Ker'rat anyway, because it was fun to pit ourselves against the klinks and break their hold over Ker'rat!
Anyway, I'm sure we'll debate (respectfully) over the next broken FOTM power or build!
*Cheers*
Sadly dont have pics of it, but its true..
MK X AP DBB with x2 CrtD... Boosted by Tac skills and a good % GDF.
Anyways..
1: I saw (and see) Feds loadgank Klingons far more than the other ways around, every single time the zone resets, the Klingons (if any) will take fire first.
2: Fednubs in Kerrat would complain, even if they attacked first and was outflown and blown up.
3: Youre saying that because one group used a lame tactic, its perfectly fine for another group to use a lame tactic?
We might debate allright.. Like I said, I dont really care what you do or dont use.. I was just saying, that opinions about PvP as a whole, is flawed when the person stating said opinion is relying on broken powers.
In other words.. Arguements from persons like TSI and QEW members that refrain from using these powers are worth a hell of a lot more to me, than opinions from people Ive only ever seen using cheesy tactics. To me those opinions are more worthless than a Fed newbie in his first T1 PvP match.
I remember way back when a Klingon Fleet, RZR, was in Ker'rat every day. Camping it. People were whining in here and the vitriol was flying. And the 528th went into Ker'rat anyway, because it was fun to pit ourselves against the klinks and break their hold over Ker'rat!
Anyway, I'm sure we'll debate (respectfully) over the next broken FOTM power or build!
97k happens... Damn TSI guy with an R name hit me for one of those once.... My personal record was a little north of 100k... kill defense, full power, all buffs, Pew.
Honestly I don't mean anything by this... I camped 100s of feds. Did you guys change your name at all? I am racking my rzr day memories for 528ths.
Seeing a few of you in there last few nights has been fun... the faw builds don't hold up all that well. But fun.
On your last line... indeed you have a point and its agreed too. However if your going to push the FOTM cookie cutter as hard as you guys have been, you have to expect some vitriol.
We don't have "pre-mades". People just take their ships out and pvp. For fun, imagine that
Any sort of a pregrouped group is a premade.. Like it or not, you use premades.
So 5 guys using FAW, SS3 and GW in a coordinated fashion are simply just taking some random skills they like?
Please... Each of those people in your "premades" read the forums, saw the posts by the respected PvP guros and their arguements against the powers... And copied their builds..
The tactic is cheesy, its your perogative to use it, just dont pretend youre "innocent"
And really.. Seeing a whole bunch of long time PvPers leaving or avoiding PvP alltogether.. is "fun".. Right.. Winning every match without even bothering to try is "fun".. Right.
I did one match with a LF FAW group against some random people (including a few known PvPers).. It was not "fun".. It was boring.. It was no more challenge than PvE (ie: nonexistant)
Any sort of a pregrouped group is a premade.. Like it or not, you use premades. Our definitions differ... What do you really know about us, logically?
So 5 guys using FAW, SS3 and GW in a coordinated fashion are simply just taking some random skills they like? We enjoy the game. What is your problem?
Please... Each of those people in your "premades" read the forums, saw the posts by the respected PvP guros and their arguements against the powers... And copied their builds..
Aside from Rocky and I, no one has responded here, nor do they particularly care.
The tactic is cheesy, its your perogative to use it, just dont pretend youre "innocent" See 2 answers up
And really.. Seeing a whole bunch of long time PvPers leaving or avoiding PvP alltogether.. is "fun".. Right.. Winning every match without even bothering to try is "fun".. Right. It's always unfortunate to lose people in the community. However, that is their choice. Lashing out emotionally at other people is a constructive way of expressing yourself now?
I did one match with a LF FAW group against some random people (including a few known PvPers).. It was not "fun".. It was boring.. It was no more challenge than PvE (ie: nonexistant) Fun is relative. What's fun for you, isn't fun for everyone. Some people like the colourful spray of fire at will. Personally, I don't care. I realize this is a game, and I pay to play. As do you all. You pay to have fun. If your not having fun, who is to blame for continuing to play?
Sorry, but that people would have fun with a set of beams autofiring FAW, and minelaunchers auto-spamming mines, is beyond my imagination...
Fun is relaitve. Is it so hard to understand that there are other people who enjoy pvp without getting too caught up in the details? Also, I would LOVE to run pvp with you or anybody here anytime!
I pvp regularly, for fun. I rarely say anything in Opvp, simply because there is nothing to say. I do not complain, i seek solutions. Why complain, when the game changes from month to month.
I was running FAW pre-OP and will continue to run it when they nerf it. I will use any power I please in the pursuit of fun so help me Space Jesus!
97k happens... Damn TSI guy with an R name hit me for one of those once.... My personal record was a little north of 100k... kill defense, full power, all buffs, Pew.
Honestly I don't mean anything by this... I camped 100s of feds. Did you guys change your name at all? I am racking my rzr day memories for 528ths.
Seeing a few of you in there last few nights has been fun... the faw builds don't hold up all that well. But fun.
On your last line... indeed you have a point and its agreed too. However if your going to push the FOTM cookie cutter as hard as you guys have been, you have to expect some vitriol.
No, we aren't as good as many of the fleets out here. A few of us enjoy pvp on a more hardcore level.
As for Ker'rat, I would come in with Grayper and fight.. Stardagger, Gripplechew... Those are the names I remember. Good opponents! They may not have even been in Razor, or they may. I do remember us going there and having a blast fighting RZR.
It hasn't been as fun since Mikey took over Ker'rat...;)
Any sort of a pregrouped group is a premade.. Like it or not, you use premades.
Our definitions differ... What do you really know about us, logically?
The topic has been brought up before - While there are certainly different qualities of premades, having an team set up and queuing as a team, you're a premade. I think most "premade" fleets in this game fly with random ship and career selections,until it actually comes to accepting challenges or being part of a tournament. It's just not realistic for most people to have the same team online all the time.
1:
Any group entering a PvP que grouped, is a premade.. Otherwise there isnt *any* premades in regular PvP
What do I know about you? I allready said that:
1: I havent heard or seen your fleet prior to the latest change to FAW
2: You use a lot of beam arrays
3: You use a lot of FAW/GW/SS3 (2 of these skills have been discussed on these forums)
4: If seen more than a few from your fleet flying solo, all of them used FAW, none of them were particulary good (dont mean that they were "bad", but merely that they were very unremarkable)
2:
My problem is that Ive seen a few posts from users with 528 mentioned in their sig use the terms "Lrn2Play", "Adapt" and "There are easy counters"
Now, if you were fighting teams using FAW without using it yourself, Id listen.. Coming from a fleet that I havent seen using anything other than FAW, it begins to sound very biased..
3: This isnt the only topic Ive seen with posts by 528th members, I dont know you guys.. No names stick really out, so I cannot say which names they were. *But* Ive seen a fair few posts using the quoted terms above.
4: When you (and the other fleets abusing FAW) is directly responsible, I argue against it.. Dont get me wrong, Im not in any way emotically affected.. Like I said, Im a professional soldier, with 2 tours in the sandbox.. A game isnt going to ruffle my feathers. I just think its a shame to lose people (and potentially the PvP part of the game), because a few people cannot restrain themselves (all in the name of "fun")
5: You get me wrong, I do have fun.. There are still a few good people playing.. And regardless of its cheesy nature, its still fun to blow up FAW jockeys up.. But... If this keeps up for much longer, all the good PvPers might be gone soon, and I might not have fun anymore.
Thats it really.. PvP have been neglected for a long time.. For every month without anything added, weve lost people.. Several people argued that FAW was broken before it was pushed live, everyone knows it is broken, so why make the matter worse.. All in all, I fear the PvP in this game will soon be so broken, it will likely never recover.. It might not come to pass, but it is a hit and miss chance at this point.. We took a huge blow when the ques were broken, and this might just end up as a deathblow..
I believe (I may be wrong) that its a critical point, and everything you (FAWers, not you personally) do just make matters worse.. Thats why I argue strongly against using FAW in any way or form.
All in all, I fear the PvP in this game will soon be so broken, it will likely never recover.. It might not come to pass, but it is a hit and miss chance at this point.. We took a huge blow when the ques were broken, and this might just end up as a deathblow..
No, PvP broke when Cryptic added the Scorpion Fighters to the game. FAW is just making a small crack a bigger one, and the April Ask Cryptic was the point where the land fell into the ocean. And when TOR comes out, the space queues would be empty like the ground queues.
The only way they could save it is by adding just 1 new map, weither it's queued or Open PvP.
TSI
AN (TSI)
LF
528th
12th
EMS
SOB
These are the Fleet Tags i know from watching on the receiving end of it all.
I see lots of FAW used more so in CNH's than arenas. It was fun for the 1st 4 days....now the last 8 days have been a bore and un-fun.
I still don't consider it a 'exploit' like Furque.....but I do agree with the community about it need more change. It really takes no skill to do this. I LOVE it when Husnak, Majorfury, Kilawpath, Rockt, <insert name> rages monkeys and bananas can do it too. kinda like the Caveman Commercials
But it is true.
It is a plague in CNH's, It makes sub-par teams better than their skills indicates, it makes spawn camping easy in Kerrat and arenas and most of all it is hard to counter individually or as a team.
The last is more the issue than anything, right? I mean most of all powers is or can be countered, but this is seemingly only countered by cloaking away or running out the area, no?
TSI
AN (TSI)
LF
528th
12th
EMS
SOB
These are the Fleet Tags i know from watching on the receiving end of it all.
I see lots of FAW used more so in CNH's than arenas. It was fun for the 1st 4 days....now the last 8 days have been a bore and un-fun.
I still don't consider it a 'exploit' like Furque.....but I do agree with the community about it need more change. It really takes no skill to do this. I LOVE it when Husnak, Majorfury, Kilawpath, Rockt, <insert name> rages monkeys and bananas can do it too. kinda like the Caveman Commercials
But it is true.
It is a plague in CNH's, It makes sub-par teams better than their skills indicates, it makes spawn camping easy in Kerrat and arenas and most of all it is hard to counter individually or as a team.
The last is more the issue than anything, right? I mean most of all powers is or can be countered, but this is seemingly only countered by cloaking away or running out the area, no?
FaW makes PvP a soloable thing it takes the very mechanic of team work and throws it out the window. If cruisers, (they mostly use it) equip BFaW they really do not need to worry about team work since they have more than enough heals to keep themselves up. This little bit is what throws the balance out. Now it puts PuGs a little farther up on the totem pole just because of one skill, that requires no skill to use. It isn't like BOL that you have to be strategic or HYT but BFaW does not have strategic use besides to be spammed.
Comments
528th PvPs regularly
I do find it annoying when you have two teams with cruiser and 1 or 2 escorts on each side...then only the escorts ever die, and they get mad because of it. Cheer up though people...it won't be broken forever.
I'm not saying it's not broken, I'm just saying that you can still win.
LOL its close.... but hey I think I will start the 666th anyone game.
I haven't a clue. I hardly ever see any TSI guys around anyway. Mostly just pugs, 7th Core, and it you're on at around 3am my time, you'll see EMS. It's nice to see good PvP fleets still playing though, it keeps things from being utterly boring.
Yes, the extreme imbalance is the skill required to abuse FAW, compared to the skill required to counter it...
Wasn't that 128th ? But someone had copyrighted that number and left with it, completely ruining mathematics as we knew it...
182nd i think...
We at the 528th are a social casual fleet. We enjoy the game, all facets of it, and the great part is we always have fun.
Before FAW...
It was Spam!
Before SPAM
It was Gravity well + Scramble Sensors!
Before GW + SS
It was SUB NUC + VM
Etc. etc.
I ask you, why get so worked up about a system that is always changing? You can continuously adapt, as TSI does regularly. I know, they face-rolled our Win at will team multiple times! We had a good laugh about it, do you know why?
Next month, when FAW get's nerfed, it'll be something else!
My 2 EC.
Enjoy!
The system is changing because we do this type of complains. The only adaption to the old Subnuke/VM combo was to use it yourself and hope you were pressing your buttons a little quicker then the others.
That lead to those skills being changed.
The goal of the complaints is that we can stop complaining and have various possible builds that all can be countered and you cannot necessarily predict how you can beat any team until you meet it and try to adapt on the fly.
Having to adapt to one uber build only is not the satisfying solution. Even if it's possible, it still means you only have to care about two builds - the uber build and the only build that can hope to counter it. All the rest of abiltiies are just red herrings. I am sure QEW and TSI can adapt to that easily - but will they enjoy the games they play from that point on? Probably not for long.
And it's not like TSI or QEW are pretending these abilities are fine. ON the contrary. They also voice their concerns.
And they avoid abusing it.. Thats the difference between the good fleets and the bad ones.
I agree. However, complaints are not where this ends. People are getting angry and vitriol is spewing over something insignificant. PVP fleets are imploding all over the place over something in a video game. Expectations are also wildly out of whack with reality!
Is this not a virtual environment?
Adaptation isn't satisfying? And here I thought we are at our best overcoming "insurmountable" goals!
The ability is broken, Mustrum, I knew it from the very moment I saw it on Tribble. You know on the flip side, at least we don't have to hear about people complaining about SPAM!
When those in control get to it, and they WILL, it will be done and over with. Constructive critisicm makes sense. It is, logical. Pointing the finger at various communities supporting this wonderful game, how does that help anything?
People paid to play the game, and have the right to play it as they choose. Should you be frustrated by FAW, or WIn at Will as I like to call it, the only logical recourse is to constructively complain to the ones in charge, no?
Or you can tear at each other emotionally over a.. video game. In this scenario, there are no winners.
Back to my original message! Have fun, live long, and Fire at Will; or not!
Are you basing your judgement and perception of various communities in STO based on the criteria that they do or do not use FAW?
That's extreme prejudice my dear, and not at all very logical
Also, we will continue to like you irrespective of what virtual in-game powers you use, rest assured
That goes for everyone else... I judge people by their attitude; not solely by their actions in a purely fictional virtual environment. Over which we have only a limited control!
Edit: On a sidenote Meline, that is one epic crit, I only see numbers that big with AP!
People can get angry over the most irrelevant things. I know it, Soccer is pretty popular here in Germany.
I think it is important that some voices try to stay reasonable and bring back calmness into the situation.
I dont like or dislike people, based on what they use.. I respect those people that realize this or that power is OTT, the ones that know it and dont care, Im indifferent about, but.. When those same people go around talking like they're the next gen TSIs, I cannot ignore it.
Ive read a lot of posts by the 528th, and find the following facts interesting:
1: Before New FAW I hadnt heard about or seen the 528th.
2: First encounter with the 528th (3 LF 2 PUG I believe), they won a straight up fight (15-6), where the dominant powers they used were FAW, SS3 and GW, I mean even the 528th Fleet Escort were running arrays and chained FAW3.
3: Every single time Ive met 528th since then have been in PUGs, and 2 things stand out.. They all used FAW and they all did relatively bad (no offense).
Now.. I havent played as much as I would like to, Im a professionel soldier, and Im.. Absent from time to time... I might just have been unlucky, met you guys in the wrong matches.. And the 528th does infact *not* (ab)use FAW extensively/predominantly.
If thats the case, my apologies.
As for the crit, yeah.. Tetryon is the prettiest energytype.. My best was a 97k BOL3 crit with a MK X AP DBB [CrtD] x2.. Nothing beats oneshotting a fullhull/shield cruiser straight through a RSP
None of the previously imbalanced skills have ever been this easy to employ. You can take any person off the street and replace a player, and noone would know the difference.
Yes, I could "adapt" and start using FAW myself... In fact I did.. For two whole matches, and I was bored to tears and beyond! No challenge, no skill needed, no fun.
I used to PvP 2-4 hours every day before New-FAW. Over the last 10 days I've fought two matches.
With New-FAW, PvP simply isn't fun anymore... It's about as challenging as flipping a coin. And as soon as unskilled players get over the thrill of suddenly winning a lot, they're going to realize that. Hope it won't be too late...
Heh.. I lasted one match..
15 kills
0 deaths
524k damage
2XX Healing
All I did was turning left and flying in a circle around the fight spamming spacebar.. Not once was I close to dying, not once did I have to use a heal. The opponents simply melted.
Yeah it is funny how many people switched to the Monkey Boat setup this weekend. Thursday and Friday night I was melting ships with my Raptor, come saturday and sunday those same players jumped into Monkey Boats. And I was getting melted. I am really close to staying logged out permanently. There is nothing in game to keep my attention I refuse to be a sheep and go to the probably the most broken FOTM build since BTXS could stack. This game has done one hell of a job beating the "care" out of me and I have been resigned to apathy and disgust.
Small supplement - if you let me - Meline
4: Last time i've saw their premade, they all used: FAW 3, SS (2 or 3 copies), GW and.....hundreds of mines - typical easy mode.
97k huh, pics or it didn't happen :P
Most of the 528th community doesn't take pvp as seriously as some members of the STO community. And that's fine. Just as it is fine for you to take it seriously.
We don't disparage people or communities for using abilities, or camping Kerrat. That's pointless, and helps no one.
I remember way back when a Klingon Fleet, RZR, was in Ker'rat every day. Camping it. People were whining in here and the vitriol was flying. And the 528th went into Ker'rat anyway, because it was fun to pit ourselves against the klinks and break their hold over Ker'rat!
Anyway, I'm sure we'll debate (respectfully) over the next broken FOTM power or build!
*Cheers*
Sadly dont have pics of it, but its true..
MK X AP DBB with x2 CrtD... Boosted by Tac skills and a good % GDF.
Anyways..
1: I saw (and see) Feds loadgank Klingons far more than the other ways around, every single time the zone resets, the Klingons (if any) will take fire first.
2: Fednubs in Kerrat would complain, even if they attacked first and was outflown and blown up.
3: Youre saying that because one group used a lame tactic, its perfectly fine for another group to use a lame tactic?
We might debate allright.. Like I said, I dont really care what you do or dont use.. I was just saying, that opinions about PvP as a whole, is flawed when the person stating said opinion is relying on broken powers.
In other words.. Arguements from persons like TSI and QEW members that refrain from using these powers are worth a hell of a lot more to me, than opinions from people Ive only ever seen using cheesy tactics. To me those opinions are more worthless than a Fed newbie in his first T1 PvP match.
We don't have "pre-mades". People just take their ships out and pvp. For fun, imagine that
97k happens... Damn TSI guy with an R name hit me for one of those once.... My personal record was a little north of 100k... kill defense, full power, all buffs, Pew.
Honestly I don't mean anything by this... I camped 100s of feds. Did you guys change your name at all? I am racking my rzr day memories for 528ths.
Seeing a few of you in there last few nights has been fun... the faw builds don't hold up all that well. But fun.
On your last line... indeed you have a point and its agreed too. However if your going to push the FOTM cookie cutter as hard as you guys have been, you have to expect some vitriol.
Sorry, but that people would have fun with a set of beams autofiring FAW, and minelaunchers auto-spamming mines, is beyond my imagination...
Any sort of a pregrouped group is a premade.. Like it or not, you use premades.
So 5 guys using FAW, SS3 and GW in a coordinated fashion are simply just taking some random skills they like?
Please... Each of those people in your "premades" read the forums, saw the posts by the respected PvP guros and their arguements against the powers... And copied their builds..
The tactic is cheesy, its your perogative to use it, just dont pretend youre "innocent"
And really.. Seeing a whole bunch of long time PvPers leaving or avoiding PvP alltogether.. is "fun".. Right.. Winning every match without even bothering to try is "fun".. Right.
I did one match with a LF FAW group against some random people (including a few known PvPers).. It was not "fun".. It was boring.. It was no more challenge than PvE (ie: nonexistant)
Answers in red
Fun is relaitve. Is it so hard to understand that there are other people who enjoy pvp without getting too caught up in the details? Also, I would LOVE to run pvp with you or anybody here anytime!
I pvp regularly, for fun. I rarely say anything in Opvp, simply because there is nothing to say. I do not complain, i seek solutions. Why complain, when the game changes from month to month.
I was running FAW pre-OP and will continue to run it when they nerf it. I will use any power I please in the pursuit of fun so help me Space Jesus!
No, we aren't as good as many of the fleets out here. A few of us enjoy pvp on a more hardcore level.
As for Ker'rat, I would come in with Grayper and fight.. Stardagger, Gripplechew... Those are the names I remember. Good opponents! They may not have even been in Razor, or they may. I do remember us going there and having a blast fighting RZR.
It hasn't been as fun since Mikey took over Ker'rat...;)
The topic has been brought up before - While there are certainly different qualities of premades, having an team set up and queuing as a team, you're a premade. I think most "premade" fleets in this game fly with random ship and career selections,until it actually comes to accepting challenges or being part of a tournament. It's just not realistic for most people to have the same team online all the time.
1:
Any group entering a PvP que grouped, is a premade.. Otherwise there isnt *any* premades in regular PvP
What do I know about you? I allready said that:
1: I havent heard or seen your fleet prior to the latest change to FAW
2: You use a lot of beam arrays
3: You use a lot of FAW/GW/SS3 (2 of these skills have been discussed on these forums)
4: If seen more than a few from your fleet flying solo, all of them used FAW, none of them were particulary good (dont mean that they were "bad", but merely that they were very unremarkable)
2:
My problem is that Ive seen a few posts from users with 528 mentioned in their sig use the terms "Lrn2Play", "Adapt" and "There are easy counters"
Now, if you were fighting teams using FAW without using it yourself, Id listen.. Coming from a fleet that I havent seen using anything other than FAW, it begins to sound very biased..
3: This isnt the only topic Ive seen with posts by 528th members, I dont know you guys.. No names stick really out, so I cannot say which names they were. *But* Ive seen a fair few posts using the quoted terms above.
4: When you (and the other fleets abusing FAW) is directly responsible, I argue against it.. Dont get me wrong, Im not in any way emotically affected.. Like I said, Im a professional soldier, with 2 tours in the sandbox.. A game isnt going to ruffle my feathers. I just think its a shame to lose people (and potentially the PvP part of the game), because a few people cannot restrain themselves (all in the name of "fun")
5: You get me wrong, I do have fun.. There are still a few good people playing.. And regardless of its cheesy nature, its still fun to blow up FAW jockeys up.. But... If this keeps up for much longer, all the good PvPers might be gone soon, and I might not have fun anymore.
Thats it really.. PvP have been neglected for a long time.. For every month without anything added, weve lost people.. Several people argued that FAW was broken before it was pushed live, everyone knows it is broken, so why make the matter worse.. All in all, I fear the PvP in this game will soon be so broken, it will likely never recover.. It might not come to pass, but it is a hit and miss chance at this point.. We took a huge blow when the ques were broken, and this might just end up as a deathblow..
I believe (I may be wrong) that its a critical point, and everything you (FAWers, not you personally) do just make matters worse.. Thats why I argue strongly against using FAW in any way or form.
Nothing personal
No, PvP broke when Cryptic added the Scorpion Fighters to the game. FAW is just making a small crack a bigger one, and the April Ask Cryptic was the point where the land fell into the ocean. And when TOR comes out, the space queues would be empty like the ground queues.
The only way they could save it is by adding just 1 new map, weither it's queued or Open PvP.
AN (TSI)
LF
528th
12th
EMS
SOB
These are the Fleet Tags i know from watching on the receiving end of it all.
I see lots of FAW used more so in CNH's than arenas. It was fun for the 1st 4 days....now the last 8 days have been a bore and un-fun.
I still don't consider it a 'exploit' like Furque.....but I do agree with the community about it need more change. It really takes no skill to do this. I LOVE it when Husnak, Majorfury, Kilawpath, Rockt, <insert name> rages monkeys and bananas can do it too. kinda like the Caveman Commercials
But it is true.
It is a plague in CNH's, It makes sub-par teams better than their skills indicates, it makes spawn camping easy in Kerrat and arenas and most of all it is hard to counter individually or as a team.
The last is more the issue than anything, right? I mean most of all powers is or can be countered, but this is seemingly only countered by cloaking away or running out the area, no?
FaW makes PvP a soloable thing it takes the very mechanic of team work and throws it out the window. If cruisers, (they mostly use it) equip BFaW they really do not need to worry about team work since they have more than enough heals to keep themselves up. This little bit is what throws the balance out. Now it puts PuGs a little farther up on the totem pole just because of one skill, that requires no skill to use. It isn't like BOL that you have to be strategic or HYT but BFaW does not have strategic use besides to be spammed.