I understand the need for unification of PWEs infrastructure, I really do. But many people don't have extra proceeding power to loose to a game platform. No matter how lean you make arc, it will still be there sucking up resources.
If you really are open to feedback, like you say, may I recommend a second program called the Arc Launcher. This essentially is a small small standalone launcher which still utilizes the arc framework to install, patch and load PWE games, but doesn't run in the background and doesn't have any of the extra features or overlays. This would still allow you to proceed with your infrastructure unification while still offering an option to those who don't want a full game platform.
This would also give you an avenue to integrate games downloaded through other game platforms, such as Steam. That way patches can still be handled through the Arc framework, but not run into the hassles of having two game platforms.
There's a lot of room for compromise here, I hope you'll consider it.
I've tested ARC, and heard from people who've tested ARC, and here's my feedback on the matter:
You have failed this goal spectacularly. Everyone who's tested ARC, myself included, has noticed frame rate reductions due to the fact that ARC is running (and is a BIT of a memory hog). ARC is intrusive in the fact that you're forced to use it, intrusive in that it reserves ten GIGABYTES of hard drive space in preparation for you installing games, and intrusive in that it makes games harder to play by virtue of lag. So, I have a FEW recommendations:
1: Stop producing ARC entirely.
As said, ARC is intrusive to say the least. If people want to play Perfect World games, the Perfect World website is more than sufficient for pointing them where they need to go to get them. You do not need a specialized client reserving memory space and taking up CPU to add excess convenience. I also note here the HUGE similarity to Valve's Steam platform (which is both better designed and less of a memory guzzler), so it is at least conceivable that Valve could drum up some legal issues over what might be considered a Steam ripoff.
2: Declining the first suggestion, at least make the system less of a pain.
This will be broken into several sub-components. A: Delete the Browser
I remember reading that ARC included a built-in browser. Since some people in times past noticed (or thought they noticed) a plugin into Internet Explorer. I suspect this is FOR said built-in browser. In short, ARC does not NEED a browser built-in. Anyone using it has a browser that is likely superior and that can be opened with the same troubles as ARC's. It'd likely benefit much from just not having the browser ANYWAY. Steam doesn't have a browser, and no one's ever complained. B: Make ARC an opt-in system.
One of my biggest pet peeves with Steam is that, to play the games on it (my example is Skyrim), it needs to be open on your computer. ARC doesn't need to duplicate this. Let those who want ARC have it, but don't force it on those who don't want it. Bad for business to force something a customer doesn't want on them. C: Make the "reserved hard drive space" an optional - and customizable - feature.
I have no intention of playing other Perfect World games at this time. Between school and house life, I barely have time for STO as it is. I don't need ARC to reserve hard drive space that I won't USE. Conversely, those that play a LOT of your games might want more space. So, when the client is being installed, ask the player two questions. "Would you like ARC to reserve space on your hard drive for games?" If yes, "How much space would you like reserved?" Here you give them a slider, between one and... say, 30 GB. 10 GB barely holds Holodeck, and having Tribble bumps that OVER. 20-30 GB is more reasonable for those that WANT the space. This improves quality of life for all players, and increases their propensity to give you money. Happy customers are good for business. Take another look at the client optimization.
As said, ARC uses a noticeable amount of CPU memory (according to my Task Manager, though I don't recall the EXACT number off-hand). Much of that may be the browser (so 2A would solve this), but it's POSSIBLE that the ARC client could use some further optimization to ensure a minimal CPU profile - making it less unobtrusive and more well-received by customers.
In short, this system needs a lot of work before I'd willingly use it. In fact, in the state it's in, if it became mandatory today, I would leave this game - and Perfect World - behind. Which says a lot, Star Trek Online is by far my favorite MMO, possibly my favorite GAME, and definitely a lot of fun. But I won't play it with ARC, not in this state.
The following two posts make me weary of ever playing STO again. Scanning my hard disk for what programs I use when not playing games goes too far. Reserving 10GB space on my 160GB SSD is also not acceptable. What if I don't have 10GB of space to reserve?
Adding something resource intensive to those with older systems is going to make the difference between STO being playable and not playable for some. To those who have installed it so far, I am a bit curious about one thing. If the game is running, what happens if you call up the task manager and kill ARC? Does it boot you right out of STO or does the game continue to work fine?
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here is an idea of a some sort of compromise: make a single game version and a multigame version of the arc launcher and make it a choice of which one they want. not everyone will be happy with this but it might be a good compromise in the end
I keep thinking of the quote from Kahless in regard to this:
"Only a fool fights a storm."
Arc is coming. The suits at PWE have decided it will be no matter what the reaction from the STO playerbase is.
I guess the best we can do is sit in our collective storm shelters and hope there's something salvageable left after the storm has passed.
The upper management at PWE (who never come anywhere near the players) don't seem to realize that the fan base of STO is for the most part not interested in the 15 anime fantasy grinder clones that make up the rest of their portfolio. Hawking their wares and data mining the computers of STO users is not going to change that.
But, I know I might as well be talking to a brick wall for all the good it will do. Arc is coming. Nothing is going to change that. The only thing we as players can do is decide how we react to it.
We don't plan on making changes to the Steam flow. Specifically, we definitely understand that having a Platform application launch a second platform application is indeed not optimal. So, we plan to allow Steam users to launch STO without launching the full Arc client in tandem.
Thanks for clarifying this. And honestly, good to hear there's gonna be an alternative. I had my doubts due to this headline:
Arc will be the exclusive method of downloading, patching, and launching all Perfect World games
But if ARC won't be required in tandem with Steam, that's something you might want to point out better. I know your job is to promote PWE's new client as best as possible, but as you can see some people clearly don't want it regardless of how well its gonna perform. Telling them there will still be an alternative (Steam) could at least partially ease the "hate".
Out of curiosity, you say "the full Arc client", so are we to assume there's gonna be a "lite" version of sorts for Steam users, that's probably more of a launcher than a client?
Well, in regards to this, I'd say a little modification to Kahless' statement is in order:
"Only a fool fights a storm, but even greater is the fool that does not defend himself against it."
In other words, you can't fight against ARC's arrival, but you can - and I suspect most that are outraged by this (which is a stance I'm slowly starting to take as well) will - escape it.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
"The Arc Client will allow you to download Perfect World games, and will eventually replace the various launchers, patchers, and download methods we currently offer."
I *knew* it. Well, me and my wallet will be walking away, as soon as you take STO off STEAM. I drew a line in the sand with EVE Online (and left, when they crossed it); and I will not put up with Arc either. Period.
I dont care how you position or sell this app's benefits to us, it is COMPLETELY unnecessary, unwanted and very lame of you folks to try the "Steam" thing. You do NOT have enough games available to ever justify this intrusion in our computers. Steam however has hundreds of games they offer and support, you guys have like 12. I only play and will only play the one game you folks support (STO) and do not want to see or interested in your other projects. Please make Arc optional to all PWE players, do not make this a mandatory update. Most of us are sick to death of download managers and clients by game publishers to promote their other products. Please do not do this...
I keep thinking of the quote from Kahless in regard to this:
"Only a fool fights a storm."
Arc is coming. The suits at PWE have decided it will be no matter what the reaction from the STO playerbase is.
I guess the best we can do is sit in our collective storm shelters and hope there's something salvageable left after the storm has passed.
The upper management at PWE (who never come anywhere near the players) don't seem to realize that the fan base of STO is for the most part not interested in the 15 anime fantasy grinder clones that make up the rest of their portfolio. Hawking their wares and data mining the computers of STO users is not going to change that.
But, I know I might as well be talking to a brick wall for all the good it will do. Arc is coming. Nothing is going to change that. The only thing we as players can do is decide how we react to it.
"The Arc Client will allow you to download Perfect World games, and will eventually replace the various launchers, patchers, and download methods we currently offer."
I *knew* it. Well, me and my wallet will be walking away, as soon as you take STO off STEAM. I drew a line in the sand with EVE Online (and left, when they crossed it); and I will not put up with Arc either. Period.
They've said that STO WILL remain available on Steam WITHOUT ARC.
As for ARC, I will be happy to install it, provided;
A) That I can close it after STO launches (whether automatically or manually, I don't care. As long as it can be closed)
That I can opt out of any data sharing agreement.
C) That there is the minimal amount of advertising intrusion.
D) That ARC's browser DOES NOT use IE. Heck, to be honest, I'd be happy not having to have the browser run at all. I already use Google Chrome in conjunction with STO, have any reference forum threads I need handy in my bookmarks and Chrome hasn't been TRIBBLE nearly as much as Internet Explorer (or Mozilla Firefox). If it uses PWE's own browser engine and not IE, I will accept that, but IE is just too vulnerable to use to handle customer information.
Now, several of these concerns have already been addressed:
A) When testing ARC's early release, I found that I was able to close ARC manually after launching STO. Since I usually wind up tabbing in and out of the game to check forum threads anyway, I am happy to do this.
Again, it is possible to opt out of sharing computer information. I decided not to when I tested ARC to aid the development, but I deliberately checked that the option was there when providing feedback.
C) This is kinda middle of the road. When you launch the current version of ARC, you get taken to a screen showing the various PWE games. You can then click on the game you want to play. You can also go to your games library and start one of the games you already have installed.
The latter is similar to how you do things with Steam. I'm not bothered having to do it with Steam - I'm not bothered having to do it with ARC.
D) Can I get some clarification on this one? How will the ARC browser work? Will it use an IE plugin, or will it automatically use our default browser (not sure if the latter is possible)? I don't want to be forced to use a browser which has been proven to be insecure in the past and I know others don't either.
I've tested ARC, and heard from people who've tested ARC, and here's my feedback on the matter:
You have failed this goal spectacularly. Everyone who's tested ARC, myself included, has noticed frame rate reductions due to the fact that ARC is running (and is a BIT of a memory hog). ARC is intrusive in the fact that you're forced to use it, intrusive in that it reserves ten GIGABYTES of hard drive space in preparation for you installing games, and intrusive in that it makes games harder to play by virtue of lag. So, I have a FEW recommendations:
1: Stop producing ARC entirely.
As said, ARC is intrusive to say the least. If people want to play Perfect World games, the Perfect World website is more than sufficient for pointing them where they need to go to get them. You do not need a specialized client reserving memory space and taking up CPU to add excess convenience. I also note here the HUGE similarity to Valve's Steam platform (which is both better designed and less of a memory guzzler), so it is at least conceivable that Valve could drum up some legal issues over what might be considered a Steam ripoff.
2: Declining the first suggestion, at least make the system less of a pain.
This will be broken into several sub-components. A: Delete the Browser
I remember reading that ARC included a built-in browser. Since some people in times past noticed (or thought they noticed) a plugin into Internet Explorer. I suspect this is FOR said built-in browser. In short, ARC does not NEED a browser built-in. Anyone using it has a browser that is likely superior and that can be opened with the same troubles as ARC's. It'd likely benefit much from just not having the browser ANYWAY. Steam doesn't have a browser, and no one's ever complained. B: Make ARC an opt-in system.
One of my biggest pet peeves with Steam is that, to play the games on it (my example is Skyrim), it needs to be open on your computer. ARC doesn't need to duplicate this. Let those who want ARC have it, but don't force it on those who don't want it. Bad for business to force something a customer doesn't want on them. C: Make the "reserved hard drive space" an optional - and customizable - feature.
I have no intention of playing other Perfect World games at this time. Between school and house life, I barely have time for STO as it is. I don't need ARC to reserve hard drive space that I won't USE. Conversely, those that play a LOT of your games might want more space. So, when the client is being installed, ask the player two questions. "Would you like ARC to reserve space on your hard drive for games?" If yes, "How much space would you like reserved?" Here you give them a slider, between one and... say, 30 GB. 10 GB barely holds Holodeck, and having Tribble bumps that OVER. 20-30 GB is more reasonable for those that WANT the space. This improves quality of life for all players, and increases their propensity to give you money. Happy customers are good for business. Take another look at the client optimization.
As said, ARC uses a noticeable amount of CPU memory (according to my Task Manager, though I don't recall the EXACT number off-hand). Much of that may be the browser (so 2A would solve this), but it's POSSIBLE that the ARC client could use some further optimization to ensure a minimal CPU profile - making it less unobtrusive and more well-received by customers.
In short, this system needs a lot of work before I'd willingly use it. In fact, in the state it's in, if it became mandatory today, I would leave this game - and Perfect World - behind. Which says a lot, Star Trek Online is by far my favorite MMO, possibly my favorite GAME, and definitely a lot of fun. But I won't play it with ARC, not in this state.
The application hasn't been optimised yet! ARC is still in early development. You can't ask them to optimise the application before they've gotten the application otherwise ready. That's just not efficient. Better to get the core application ready and then optimise it in one go prior to release.
You know, what every other software developer does. Get the app finished -> optimise it as best as you can -> release software for the general public -> profit.
They've said that STO WILL remain available on Steam WITHOUT ARC.
That's not what they said. They said "We don't plan on making changes to the Steam flow." Note that word "plan". Plans change. They also said they weren't planning on making Arc mandatory before this last announcement.
Consider, which should have more weight: A forum reply about "plans" from one CR rep or a bold-faced pronouncement on the front page that Arc will be the only way to launch STO?
That's not what they said. They said "We don't plan on making changes to the Steam flow." Note that word "plan". Plans change. They also said they weren't planning on making Arc mandatory before this last announcement.
Consider, which should have more weight: A forum reply about "plans" from one CR rep or a bold-faced pronouncement on the front page that Arc will be the only way to launch STO?
So? It means essentially the same thing. If I say that "I will eat a sandwich", it's the same as if I'd said "I plan to eat a sandwich". There is no difference. I can change my mind either way, unless it's a legally binding contract, which forum posts aren't.
Also, they said from day 1 that they planned to eventually make ARC mandatory. I know, I complained about it at the time.
That's not what they said. They said "We don't plan on making changes to the Steam flow." Note that word "plan". Plans change. They also said they weren't planning on making Arc mandatory before this last announcement.
Consider, which should have more weight: A forum reply about "plans" from one CR rep or a bold-faced pronouncement on the front page that Arc will be the only way to launch STO?
The Arc Client will allow you to download Perfect World games, and will eventually replace the various launchers, patchers, and download methods we currently offer.
Arc will be the exclusive method of downloading, patching, and launching all Perfect World games
These seem to imply you won't be able to play STO through Steam, once ARC becomes mandatory.
They've said that STO WILL remain available on Steam WITHOUT ARC.
Good news. And just read it myself. But they could have made that a bit more clear, from their original wording.
The latter is similar to how you do things with Steam. I'm not bothered having to do it with Steam - I'm not bothered having to do it with ARC.
Well, I *am* bothered with it. As others already pointed out, STEAM is the de facto digital platform, carrying hundreds of games. Having 1 of those on your computer suffices. And STEAM is trustworthy. I loathe to see every game publisher launch its own 'concurrent' platform. I understand, from a business perspective, they all want to cash in on STEAM's success; but for the gamer it's a nightmare. Especially when each of those new platforms will only be hosting the publisher's own games (like Arc). Ony VALVe had the foresight and wisdom to realize only a platform that allows all developers out there to participate is truly viable and acceptable.
I had to install Arc at my parents' house. So far, the privacy intrusions were not that bad per se; but I'm only interested in STO. So, at the end of the day, Arc will just be ridiculously large (9G?) new launcher, that offers nothing extra of value, and only comes with drawbacks (privacy issues, security risks, memory hog, etc).
So? It means essentially the same thing. If I say that "I will eat a sandwich", it's the same as if I'd said "I plan to eat a sandwich". There is no difference. I can change my mind either way, unless it's a legally binding contract, which forum posts aren't.
Well, we can all hope they won't use some lame logic like that to try and make Arc mandatory for all, after all. And, for now, I will just take the dev at his word when he said: "We don't plan on making changes to the Steam flow." And hope that was a statement of genuine intent, and not some sort of silly semantics ploy.
I am amused that any of you are bothering to post feedback here.
This studio will have zero say in this platform, and will be forced to use whatever the PWE marketing team feels will best position the ads for them. PWE bought this studio in order to get its other titles a foothold in North America, and frankly, that hasn't happened.
They do not care if this is the only game you play. They want their other titles in your face as much as possible, in the hopes that constantly seeing the links and ads for them will eventually wear you down and get you to try them.
This isn't about streamlining, or consolidating technology. It is purely about selling you their product.
All your questions are doing is forcing this Dev to lie to you.
It all comes down to a simple decision. You will either use ARC or you will leave the game. No other threat, or plea will make a difference. And ARC is and will be EXACTLY the kind of adware/spyware you think it is.
I can tell you, for myself, that as soon as they make ANY changes to how the game runs via Steam, I and the years of zen purchases I have made will be leaving.
Ugh, what a major waste of time/money for all the games brought under the ARC umbrella, some are even less looked after than STO/CO, talk about major playerbase turnoff ;/
Seriously why bother with arc PWE? Larger companies have tried and failed on the steam-clone front and sure you keep saying ' we are 100% commited to developing the most non-intrusive resource-lite client software ever' : except we dont want it anyway, not even an 'efficient' one...
I thought we wanted new players for the new season? When it comes to the first-time-player online gamer base : 'download and install ARC' will instantly turnoff 3/4 anyone who decides they might want to come try STO ( i play a a lot of MMOs, and always try to check out new releases : but the second i see some sort of integrated client/account megatool setup, ill always decided not to bother )
Right now we are developing Arc for Windows, and we test in environments that use Windows XP, Vista, 7, and 8. No plans to officially support Mac or Linux at this time.
Of course, if you decide to try out Arc in Wine, I'd still be curious to hear your experience. We won't be able to guarantee total compatibility/functionality, though we can still forward bugs and issues that happen through Wine to the developers to see what their thoughts are, in case they are able to come up with any solutions or suggestions.
If you can give us a list of the technologies that ARC is using like .NET ver x.x, C++ runtime redstrible, flash, IE 7, MSXML ver x.x, MSInstaller ver x.x, etc... That would go a long way in trying out ARC in WINE/Crossover/PlayOnLinux.
Or PM me with the info and I will try ARC out as soon as I get home and setup the required software.
I finally have performance parity between XP and Linux in WINE. So, now I can finally ditch XP.
Looks like it's a case of "Steam, here I come. For now."
The only reason I'm against ARC is purely because for me it just isn't useful, I don't plan on buying a single thing from PWE or playing any of their other games, so why would I want to download this useless programme. Hope PWE are wise enough to understand this next sentence
In order to fully try/use the features of Arc I needed to re install STO. In doing so, Arc deleted/overwrote everything in the STO folder, same thing accorded with the other two Cryptic games. Fortunately I had saved my settings and screenshot folder to a cloud drive so nothing was lost. Since that time Arc has been removed, and unless this has been solved I have no intentions of re installing it.
Other programs such as Steam simply update the exe and registery.
If you can give us a list of the technologies that ARC is using like .NET ver x.x, C++ runtime redstrible, flash, IE 7, MSXML ver x.x, MSInstaller ver x.x, etc... That would go a long way in trying out ARC in WINE/Crossover/PlayOnLinux.
Or PM me with the info and I will try ARC out as soon as I get home and setup the required software.
I finally have performance parity between XP and Linux in WINE. So, now I can finally ditch XP.
I booted my Win7 Install in March, and I am quite happy with the situation. So getting this info as soon as possible, to set up a bottle for testing would just be wonderful.
Keep circulating the non-Arc installers. They will have to physically force me to download Arc before I ever switch away from Steam.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
We genuinely want to make an application that our players enjoy using.
It seems PWE still can't understand that players are under NO obligation to WANT to use it.
Nor to be interested in checking. Player don't have to worry what PWE wants. Not player's problem.
Forced use is never enjoyable. No matter how well/bad is made application.
Especially people already using Steam have no need to Arc, never had need for Arc and will never have any need for Arc.
Your average Steam user is keeping all his games on Steam and those games are from different publishers. Having different platform for even one game is not desirable. Nobody will be jumping between Arc and Steam games.
I'd say more. Average Steam player is more likely to abandon Cryptic games and move to other Steam supported MMOs, if he or she can no longer play via Steam.
So better Cryptic games will be possible to update via Stem in future, or at least their launchers will be working with Steam.
Yes, it's just a word I use to be safe. Since we're talking about things very far into the future, it's best to play it safe and leave room open for plans to change.
At this time there are currently no super-secret plans. :P
Yep. Just like last time I read about ARC there were "currently" no super-secret plans to ultimately make it mandatory, like we're now being clearly told it will be. :rolleyes:
No problem...this certainly won't be the first game I've dumped over such rubbish, and likely won't be the last. Just let me know when my last time playing is. (That's when I can't get in without ARC, and uninstall the game. At least I found this out before spending any more money- that's just something else I won't bother doing again. Thank you, ARC, for saving me some money.)
This will be forcing me to leave my favourite game. There is no way I will ever use ARC. :mad:
I'm lifer so this won't affect the subscription revenues. You can forget about me buying more ZEN, ships, etc... Once again, PWE did not listen to the player base. This is sad but I will never play a game that forces me to use something I do not want.
Yes, it would be nice to know indeed when this will be forced upon us. Do I still have some time before I'm forced to leave? If I had known sooner I would more than likely never had purchased Legacy of Romulus.
Arc will be the exclusive method of downloading, patching, and launching all Perfect World games
To ensure that existing and future games do not need individual launchers and websites, our goal is to build Arc to deliver all the games published by the Perfect World brand. Once this goal is met, most games will require Arc in order to launch.
Surely you already have agreements with Steam? RE The Steam Pack you already sell there.
So, you're not going to sell the Steam Pack anymore?
Let's not forget that brief love affair STO had with Raptr, where you play X amount of time and get rewards ingame like boxes of Dilithium and custom pets etc. will that not work anymore either?
So, we won't be able to use Steam to play STO anymore? A program that has become MASSIVELY useful for organising our games, regardless of Developer, that notifies us of new drivers, lets us know when sales are on for DLC for our games and others, lets us be a community via the IM system and the ability to make Steam Groups etc
You're saying Arc can do better?
Surely it doesn't take a genius to realise that making your games harder to install is counter productive.
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A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Comments
I understand the need for unification of PWEs infrastructure, I really do. But many people don't have extra proceeding power to loose to a game platform. No matter how lean you make arc, it will still be there sucking up resources.
If you really are open to feedback, like you say, may I recommend a second program called the Arc Launcher. This essentially is a small small standalone launcher which still utilizes the arc framework to install, patch and load PWE games, but doesn't run in the background and doesn't have any of the extra features or overlays. This would still allow you to proceed with your infrastructure unification while still offering an option to those who don't want a full game platform.
This would also give you an avenue to integrate games downloaded through other game platforms, such as Steam. That way patches can still be handled through the Arc framework, but not run into the hassles of having two game platforms.
There's a lot of room for compromise here, I hope you'll consider it.
The following two posts make me weary of ever playing STO again. Scanning my hard disk for what programs I use when not playing games goes too far. Reserving 10GB space on my 160GB SSD is also not acceptable. What if I don't have 10GB of space to reserve?
Adding something resource intensive to those with older systems is going to make the difference between STO being playable and not playable for some. To those who have installed it so far, I am a bit curious about one thing. If the game is running, what happens if you call up the task manager and kill ARC? Does it boot you right out of STO or does the game continue to work fine?
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"Only a fool fights a storm."
Arc is coming. The suits at PWE have decided it will be no matter what the reaction from the STO playerbase is.
I guess the best we can do is sit in our collective storm shelters and hope there's something salvageable left after the storm has passed.
The upper management at PWE (who never come anywhere near the players) don't seem to realize that the fan base of STO is for the most part not interested in the 15 anime fantasy grinder clones that make up the rest of their portfolio. Hawking their wares and data mining the computers of STO users is not going to change that.
But, I know I might as well be talking to a brick wall for all the good it will do. Arc is coming. Nothing is going to change that. The only thing we as players can do is decide how we react to it.
Out of curiosity, you say "the full Arc client", so are we to assume there's gonna be a "lite" version of sorts for Steam users, that's probably more of a launcher than a client?
Well, in regards to this, I'd say a little modification to Kahless' statement is in order:
"Only a fool fights a storm, but even greater is the fool that does not defend himself against it."
In other words, you can't fight against ARC's arrival, but you can - and I suspect most that are outraged by this (which is a stance I'm slowly starting to take as well) will - escape it.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I *knew* it. Well, me and my wallet will be walking away, as soon as you take STO off STEAM. I drew a line in the sand with EVE Online (and left, when they crossed it); and I will not put up with Arc either. Period.
Kahless actually said:
"Only a fool fights in a burning house."
And...
"The wind does not respect a fool."
Carry on!
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Close enough.
They've said that STO WILL remain available on Steam WITHOUT ARC.
As for ARC, I will be happy to install it, provided;
A) That I can close it after STO launches (whether automatically or manually, I don't care. As long as it can be closed)
C) That there is the minimal amount of advertising intrusion.
D) That ARC's browser DOES NOT use IE. Heck, to be honest, I'd be happy not having to have the browser run at all. I already use Google Chrome in conjunction with STO, have any reference forum threads I need handy in my bookmarks and Chrome hasn't been TRIBBLE nearly as much as Internet Explorer (or Mozilla Firefox). If it uses PWE's own browser engine and not IE, I will accept that, but IE is just too vulnerable to use to handle customer information.
Now, several of these concerns have already been addressed:
A) When testing ARC's early release, I found that I was able to close ARC manually after launching STO. Since I usually wind up tabbing in and out of the game to check forum threads anyway, I am happy to do this.
C) This is kinda middle of the road. When you launch the current version of ARC, you get taken to a screen showing the various PWE games. You can then click on the game you want to play. You can also go to your games library and start one of the games you already have installed.
The latter is similar to how you do things with Steam. I'm not bothered having to do it with Steam - I'm not bothered having to do it with ARC.
D) Can I get some clarification on this one? How will the ARC browser work? Will it use an IE plugin, or will it automatically use our default browser (not sure if the latter is possible)? I don't want to be forced to use a browser which has been proven to be insecure in the past and I know others don't either.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
The application hasn't been optimised yet! ARC is still in early development. You can't ask them to optimise the application before they've gotten the application otherwise ready. That's just not efficient. Better to get the core application ready and then optimise it in one go prior to release.
You know, what every other software developer does. Get the app finished -> optimise it as best as you can -> release software for the general public -> profit.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Consider, which should have more weight: A forum reply about "plans" from one CR rep or a bold-faced pronouncement on the front page that Arc will be the only way to launch STO?
So? It means essentially the same thing. If I say that "I will eat a sandwich", it's the same as if I'd said "I plan to eat a sandwich". There is no difference. I can change my mind either way, unless it's a legally binding contract, which forum posts aren't.
Also, they said from day 1 that they planned to eventually make ARC mandatory. I know, I complained about it at the time.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Good news. And just read it myself. But they could have made that a bit more clear, from their original wording.
Well, I *am* bothered with it. As others already pointed out, STEAM is the de facto digital platform, carrying hundreds of games. Having 1 of those on your computer suffices. And STEAM is trustworthy. I loathe to see every game publisher launch its own 'concurrent' platform. I understand, from a business perspective, they all want to cash in on STEAM's success; but for the gamer it's a nightmare. Especially when each of those new platforms will only be hosting the publisher's own games (like Arc). Ony VALVe had the foresight and wisdom to realize only a platform that allows all developers out there to participate is truly viable and acceptable.
I had to install Arc at my parents' house. So far, the privacy intrusions were not that bad per se; but I'm only interested in STO. So, at the end of the day, Arc will just be ridiculously large (9G?) new launcher, that offers nothing extra of value, and only comes with drawbacks (privacy issues, security risks, memory hog, etc).
Well, we can all hope they won't use some lame logic like that to try and make Arc mandatory for all, after all. And, for now, I will just take the dev at his word when he said: "We don't plan on making changes to the Steam flow." And hope that was a statement of genuine intent, and not some sort of silly semantics ploy.
This studio will have zero say in this platform, and will be forced to use whatever the PWE marketing team feels will best position the ads for them. PWE bought this studio in order to get its other titles a foothold in North America, and frankly, that hasn't happened.
They do not care if this is the only game you play. They want their other titles in your face as much as possible, in the hopes that constantly seeing the links and ads for them will eventually wear you down and get you to try them.
This isn't about streamlining, or consolidating technology. It is purely about selling you their product.
All your questions are doing is forcing this Dev to lie to you.
It all comes down to a simple decision. You will either use ARC or you will leave the game. No other threat, or plea will make a difference. And ARC is and will be EXACTLY the kind of adware/spyware you think it is.
I can tell you, for myself, that as soon as they make ANY changes to how the game runs via Steam, I and the years of zen purchases I have made will be leaving.
Seriously why bother with arc PWE? Larger companies have tried and failed on the steam-clone front and sure you keep saying ' we are 100% commited to developing the most non-intrusive resource-lite client software ever' : except we dont want it anyway, not even an 'efficient' one...
I thought we wanted new players for the new season? When it comes to the first-time-player online gamer base : 'download and install ARC' will instantly turnoff 3/4 anyone who decides they might want to come try STO ( i play a a lot of MMOs, and always try to check out new releases : but the second i see some sort of integrated client/account megatool setup, ill always decided not to bother )
If you can give us a list of the technologies that ARC is using like .NET ver x.x, C++ runtime redstrible, flash, IE 7, MSXML ver x.x, MSInstaller ver x.x, etc... That would go a long way in trying out ARC in WINE/Crossover/PlayOnLinux.
Or PM me with the info and I will try ARC out as soon as I get home and setup the required software.
I finally have performance parity between XP and Linux in WINE. So, now I can finally ditch XP.
The only reason I'm against ARC is purely because for me it just isn't useful, I don't plan on buying a single thing from PWE or playing any of their other games, so why would I want to download this useless programme. Hope PWE are wise enough to understand this next sentence
"MAKE IT VOLUNTARY" (Capitalised for emphasis)
Other programs such as Steam simply update the exe and registery.
I booted my Win7 Install in March, and I am quite happy with the situation. So getting this info as soon as possible, to set up a bottle for testing would just be wonderful.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
And when this happens - i won't use it either.
In my opinion arcs only purpose is to be a [insert fancy buzzword] bloatware for pwe marketing issues.
Don't need it. Don't want it.
Won't ask Questions here - so a poor henchman isn't forced to lie.
It seems PWE still can't understand that players are under NO obligation to WANT to use it.
Nor to be interested in checking. Player don't have to worry what PWE wants. Not player's problem.
Forced use is never enjoyable. No matter how well/bad is made application.
Especially people already using Steam have no need to Arc, never had need for Arc and will never have any need for Arc.
Your average Steam user is keeping all his games on Steam and those games are from different publishers. Having different platform for even one game is not desirable. Nobody will be jumping between Arc and Steam games.
I'd say more. Average Steam player is more likely to abandon Cryptic games and move to other Steam supported MMOs, if he or she can no longer play via Steam.
So better Cryptic games will be possible to update via Stem in future, or at least their launchers will be working with Steam.
Yep. Just like last time I read about ARC there were "currently" no super-secret plans to ultimately make it mandatory, like we're now being clearly told it will be. :rolleyes:
No problem...this certainly won't be the first game I've dumped over such rubbish, and likely won't be the last. Just let me know when my last time playing is. (That's when I can't get in without ARC, and uninstall the game. At least I found this out before spending any more money- that's just something else I won't bother doing again. Thank you, ARC, for saving me some money.)
I'm lifer so this won't affect the subscription revenues. You can forget about me buying more ZEN, ships, etc... Once again, PWE did not listen to the player base. This is sad but I will never play a game that forces me to use something I do not want.
To ensure that existing and future games do not need individual launchers and websites, our goal is to build Arc to deliver all the games published by the Perfect World brand. Once this goal is met, most games will require Arc in order to launch.
Surely you already have agreements with Steam? RE The Steam Pack you already sell there.
So, you're not going to sell the Steam Pack anymore?
Let's not forget that brief love affair STO had with Raptr, where you play X amount of time and get rewards ingame like boxes of Dilithium and custom pets etc. will that not work anymore either?
So, we won't be able to use Steam to play STO anymore? A program that has become MASSIVELY useful for organising our games, regardless of Developer, that notifies us of new drivers, lets us know when sales are on for DLC for our games and others, lets us be a community via the IM system and the ability to make Steam Groups etc
You're saying Arc can do better?
Surely it doesn't take a genius to realise that making your games harder to install is counter productive.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...