ARC is intrusive in the fact that you're forced to use it, intrusive in that it reserves ten GIGABYTES of hard drive space in preparation for you installing games, and intrusive in that it makes games harder to play by virtue of lag.
This, if true, is absolutely totally and utterly unacceptable to me, dezstravus. Cryptic's games, along with my OS and most of my Steam stuff, all run on a 240GB SSD drive. I can NOT WASTE 10GB of that data at all times in the 'hopes' that I'll install another PWE game.
This, if true, is absolutely totally and utterly unacceptable to me, dezstravus. Cryptic's games, along with my OS and most of my Steam stuff, all run on a 240GB SSD drive. I can NOT WASTE 10GB of that data at all times in the 'hopes' that I'll install another PWE game.
That is a joke and must be removed if true.
Also agree, if true. I don't have Arc so I can't say whether it's true or not. If it is, then the alternative is to play STO through Steam.
Like many others have expressed here on this forum, I do not want ARC on my computer. After what I experienced with ARC so far, it's a negative program that causes system and bandwidth hogging. Which makes it impossible to play any Star Trek Online. And I have to shake my head at the mention of an Opt-Out, which can easily be overturned without the players knowledge.
If this system should be forced upon me to play this game, then I will immediately end all support of Star Trek Online and find another online game to play.
The Arc Client will allow you to download Perfect World games, and will eventually replace the various launchers, patchers, and download methods we currently offer.
Well that answers that I guess, I just wonder when this eventually is gonna happen?
I still don't want the dang thing, but if you're gonna force us to use it it's not much to do now is it?
Great question! I have seen a couple people ask about running multiple clients at the same time, though I'm not sure how specifically this is affected by launching STO with the new version of Arc we are developing. I'll try to get some information on this.
Ive tried this on a release of ARC about 2 months ago and the problem was that only one instance of ARC could run at a time. The workaround was to use arc to bring up the STO launcher and then close ARC to reopen it again with the second account however it sounds like this workaround may not still work in future builds when the launcher is built into ARC. This is an aspect of STO that we've been able to enjoy for what will likely be 4 plus years before ARC is fully instituted and it would be a shame to lose it for something that is supposed to "enrich your" (our) "game experience even further".
Why reinvent the wheel?
Steam does everything you're trying to build with Arc.
Steam can push out game updates, technically you could do away with the launcher with it. You/Cryptic just choose not to use their infrastructure.
It supports DLC and theoretically all the C-Store can go into Steam as DLC for the game.
Steam has the community stuff for social. IM Chat, profile pages, groups, achievements, gifting, market place, the list goes on...
It can be configured to be as non intrusive as you like.
Websites being viewable in arc, is just as easily achievable in steam via overlay.
Linux or Mac, Steam has it covered too.
The best content delivery system currently available used by the largest proportion of players around the world than Arc ever will be and you want to go create your own?
I'm yet to read anything Arc does that Steam cannot.
Great question. Once again, this comes back to being more of a design goal than a specific promise or measurement. The best way to describe it would be to say that we understand that people don't like bloatware, because we don't like bloatware, so we're committed to not making bloatware.
We want our platform to meet the standards of enthusiast gamers, so we'll be monitoring data very closely to ensure that performance remains tight. We're also happy to look at player-submitted reports of resource usage so that we can identify areas for improvement.
So let me get this right: You don't want to make "Bloatware", but yet PWE is committed into forcing their users, at some point, to use the equivalent of "Bloatware"? Regardless of how much of a footprint ARC might be, it's a secondary program running along side the game you want to run, eating up system resources it doesn't need to and capable of sending info back to PWE. Sure seems to be "Bloatware" to me...
The design goal of Arc is to remain open in the background so that you can evoke Arc's functionality via an in-game overlay. Things like a browser/chat/game info/etc. So, currently it's not being designed with the goal of being closed after a game is launched.
I would say that we're doing everything we can to ensure that having the client remain open has a minimal impact on game performance, if any. However, if we see a trend that players are routinely closing the client for a measurable increase in FPS, then we will definitely look into it.
I'm sorry, but the above is a non-starter with me. I don't have a problem with a application that can be a all-in-one launcher/updater. but I should be able to decide if I want to have it running or not after it's done the launch and/or updating.
Thank you for taking the time to express your thoughts and for giving us the chance to address them. Your feedback is logical and very understandable. In this particular situation, I would just recommend considering that unifying the technology of our websites and game launchers is a necessary step for us, simply due to our immense growth. As a multi-game publisher, we need a solid infrastructure to support all our games, and maintaining several different launchers and websites is no longer optimal from an engineering perspective. I understand that it can be annoying to download new software, so with that in mind I would just reiterate that we're committed to doing everything we can to ensure the best possible experience though the transition.
Again, I can understand and acknowledge streamlining and unifying the back-end processes. That is a good and acceptable goal.
If it was just a launcher, I can accept that. I do not want or need a secondary browser when I have one running currently. There are times when having separate "...channels of information feeds..." is, in essence, more effective.
So, please feel free to post your experiences and feedback throughout this process. If you have specific things you'd like to see (or not see), we are definitely open to hearing them. As with all feedback, it's all about being realistic, and including specifics.
Also, if you haven't tried it out yet, I encourage you to do a quick test of Arc just to see exactly what we're looking at building. As someone who grew up uninstalling toolbars from my parents' computers, and using propriety software to transfer songs to my first-gen 32mb MP3 player, I can definitely understand that the initial reluctance to "required" software. Fortunately, our first-hand experience of that reluctance is what enables us to make something that actually is lightweight and unobtrusive. We genuinely want to make an application that our players enjoy using.
Thanks again for sharing your feedback! As always, please feel free to continue sharing your thoughts.
Nothing I've seen so far instills any confidence that even installing ARC will make my enjoyment of STO any better than it currently is. As it is, if the progression of ARC continues and all players will be forced into using it, I will stop playing STO when ARC be comes mandatory. I can also guarantee at least one other player for similar reasons.
Bottom line: Make Arc either non-mandatory or include the functionality to turn it off after game launch and you may find greater acceptance in the long term.
Thank you for the time...
STO CBT Player - 400 day+ Vet, Currently Silver
Cryptic, would you actulaly like me to spend actual Money? It's Simple:
Full, Story-driven, select from start 1-50 Klingon Side
Scrap current Lock Box & Lobi system for something more reasonable
Expand Dil and Rep/Fleet Marks to regular story content
Okay. I'll bite on the forum's hypocrisy: Cryptic already has one "unified" launcher tech to handle all three of "their" games (STO, CO, NW). Why can't PWE be on this bandwagon...
Yet, especially on the above note, I do have to wonder, why does PWE "need" to reinvent the wheel (ARC) when adapting Cryptic's existing tech to support the PWE slate would be "just as much work to those PWE games" and less work overall...
I see "cross-game chat" as a "benefit" of ARC. Again, Cryptic has this tech "in-hand", heck, the Cryptic chat system has this and access via a specific client that allows non-players to chat with the "in-game crowd". Replace all of PWE's chat systems with Cryptic's, goal met using "in-game windows only" - no extra windows cluttering the UIs and...
on the subject of "lean" - Cryptic's current launcher uses 0 bits of RAM after it does it's job - that of giving me the latest pile of advertisements, news, and checks the game version / patches if necessary. Obviously, even 1 byte of RAM used by anything after the game fully starts is "thicker" than what we have now.
Which leaves "social media integration" as a reason to have a system running at the same time the game does. However, is PWE planning on going down the "Zynga road" where every accolade / ticker flyer (Jane has reached L9 of no-win scenerio. Joebob has just received the blankety-blank ship from the blah-blah lockbox. More spam in a second) has to be posted/tweeted?
Oh, that's right, the "web stuff". While I could just repeat myself, as Cryptic's launcher does limited HTML-code in-window (news links, picture links, etc.), and delivers this content via our browser of choice - hearing that there is an integrated browser in this system makes me question the "lean-ness" of the system again, browsers are notoriously chunky with it's HTML decoding code already, fairly useless in-game unless you're adding browsing to the in-game interfaces - hearing that it's possibly tied to internet exploiter makes it even more questionable (you mean I avoid IE because it's the target-du-jour of hackers, and to get into game I have to be exposed to this, and it's most likely unpatched because it's not part of Microsoft's ecosystem after the integration?)
Granted, I'm somewhat "old school" and don't care for some of this, but I have to ask, in summary, exactly what ARC is gonna offer that isn't already around?
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I see "cross-game chat" as a "benefit" of ARC. Again, Cryptic has this tech "in-hand", heck, the Cryptic chat system has this and access via a specific client that allows non-players to chat with the "in-game crowd". Replace all of PWE's chat systems with Cryptic's, goal met using "in-game windows only" - no extra windows cluttering the UIs and...
This bit has me somewhat concerned because of how "smoothly" the conversion from Cryptic Accounts to PW Accounts went(and I still get the Cryptic Login Bug on their games, even NW which was made after Cryptic Accounts). If they do a type of 'Channel Merger" between the games will Cryptic's games get 1st crack at the names of those channels? Do PW games even have user chat channels? Are some channels which are over 4 years old run the risk of being either merged into other channels or you getting the happy reply from CS of,"You can just remake the channel(this is not a random example right here but something from a recent issue where I learned that PW CS doesn't have people who know enough about the Cryptic Games for basic adjustments and support)." I'm not saying it's the apocalypse of Cryptic's Channel System if it's merged. I'm just saying I do not know and I feel these are questions/considerations.
Or is this more in line with the Pidgin/Trillian abilities in Cryptic Games? Which, as I see it questions compatability issues as well as the previous channel structure and other concerns posted above.
Again, stuff I already have in place and can already do.
P.S. Does this mean Cryptic will begin to count for CORE or is that going away?
We don't plan on making changes to the Steam flow. Specifically, we definitely understand that having a Platform application launch a second platform application is indeed not optimal. So, we plan to allow Steam users to launch STO without launching the full Arc client in tandem.
Arc will be the exclusive method of downloading, patching, and launching all Perfect World games
These two statements are not compatible.
Either PWE is lying about continuing to support Steam (they're waiting on Arc to actually be functional before announcing in order to not TRIBBLE of Valve before they're ready) or Arc will not be the exclusive method of downloading, patching, and launching all Perfect world games.
NONE, of your other games interest me. (I have looked at them in the past)
As hard as it would be, I WILL WALK AWAY from STO..., (thus taking away money from your pockets)...
... if I have to have your proprietary TRIBBLE running all the while, I'm playing this game.
That's as clear as I can make my feelings known about this topic.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I understand the reasons for wanting to centralize maintenance to single platform and structure. It's a fair and valid point.
I do, however, have a few questions:
1.) Will the STO client terminate if I close ARC after launching the game? (May a suggest adding a "Close ARC on game launch" option?)
2.) Is ARC able to detect a previous installation of a game, or will it require a fresh download? (How will that work for Steam users?)
3.) I notice there is a lot of talk of not only launchers, but also website restructuring; what impact will all this have on these/future forums?
As to #3...
It means we'll all probably be scrambling, once again, too reacquire our current forum names.
:rolleyes:
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Also, one worry pops up in here recently about the external chat system. All I have to say is this:
Having access to external chat through Pidgin and Trillian (and like the one Android software that it works with and the zero iOS ones) is part of why I stay a Gold member to one of your Cryptic titles - just so I can keep talking to my friends when I'm not in game. And I know of a LOT of people who are the same way.
If that goes, so will plenty of your more 'hardcore' player base. Especially as far as CO goes.
If I already have a few cryptic games installed before arc is installed, will it auto detect their current location or will it reinstall the game from scratch.
I currently use other applications in conjunction with sto. I use Advanced combat tracker to monitor dps is one of them. Will there be an option so that if I launch star trek online that it can launch a few other applications that I specify with it? The only reason why I ask for user specified apps upon launch of certain games is that way you do not have to be aware of all combat log parsers out there but instead let the user define it.
As part of the launcher would there be an option to input client side commands into the launcher? Again looking at the dps parsers, I have to type '/combatlog 1" into my client each time I launch it.
How will arc be able to determine the shard I want to connect to. Currently the tribble shard is specified in the current sto launcher and not arc.
Personally I do not want a new launcher but if I can't prevent it I would certainly want to see it be the best it can be now before it is made. If there can be a few option to make my life simpler, the better.
The main objective of ARC, just as any always-on "launchers", is to push "in your face" advertisements of the respective publisher's games. So let's try to drop the talk about "unified platforms", " or "improving gaming experience" and any other complicated terms that mean NOTHING.
A launcher should be just that - a launcher. By definition, its purpose is not to "improve gaming experience", but to <shock> launch games.
The problem here is that ARC is not just a launcher and, as many above posted, is very intrusive.
I get that you're trying to add so-called features like a browser or unified chat and <gasp> integration with social media (because we REALLY need that...) just to divert attention from the real purpose of this software - advertising PWE products.
I understand the need to advertise your own games, I really do.
But would it be so difficult to just add PWE games to the CURRENT LAUNCHER? Which is quite stable, it doesn't pointlessly use large amounts of resources and is not intrusive?
I understand that this was not your decision, and that you're just employees of a much bigger fish, but there are moments when issues like these need to be confronted by someone.
We already have a fully functional, minimal and sufficient launcher - it is the current one.
Just use html magiks and redesign the webpage displayed in the current launcher with a list of PWE games or whatever and be done with it.
Ignum CampaignNWS-DBBV2EY9G "The quest for the Book of Ignum"
Well, that tears it for me. Once ARC is mandatory I will have to say goodbye to STO. Its the only PWE game I currently and ever will play.
I don't need or want an additional browser, particularly anything IE based.
I don't need or want social media integration.
I don't need or want advertisements about games I will never play.
I don't need or want drive space dedicated to my aforementioned lack of desire to play these games.
I don't need or want extra software running in the background while I play. As it is I turn off Steam the moment I don't need it. Which is also a reason I have precious few Steam games.
I don't need or want my system spied on by PWE, and I don't trust that you won't, opt in or not.
So glad there are other games on the horizon that I had planned on splitting my gaming time with. You've just made the decision for me about the need to split my gaming time - I won't have to now. So, thanks for that I guess.
Make no mistake. This is not an I quit post. This is a flat refusal to use ARC in any capacity. Since I will be required to use it if I want to play STO at some point in the future, this amounts to me being forced out of the game.
2.) Is ARC able to detect a previous installation of a game, or will it require a fresh download? (How will that work for Steam users?)
works just fine with my steam download
I use ARC purely for the one click im in....if i luanch from steam i have to put my login details everytime.....only used the steam sterter if im adding zen from my steam wallet
I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
The reason is that I'm on a slightly older system, and do not have a ton of ram to play around with.
If ARC has a big memory footprint, I might be forced to get more ram for my rig, just so I can play STO. You better have ARC use as small of a memory footprint as possible, otherwise you are not only forcing us to use ARC, but also forcing those of us with slightly older systems to uppgrade ram or other components, wich can expensive...
I do understand the thought behind ARC, but why force it on the Cryptic users, when the current Cryptic launcher works so well. Just seems like a step in the wrong direction...
Every time I read about ARC I flinch away from it.
I am running STO on Linux (Mint15 with Cross Over and WINE underneath it) which leaves me pretty much in the same boat as the mac users.
Has anybody thought about us? Is anybody at PWE looking into the problem?
How will things change for us and will we get the appropriate informations in advance or will we have to do wild troubleshooting instead of playing?
I have sincere doubts about native version for both systems and fear we will never see them actually (I know of the mac announcement, but I have my doubts).
The Ecosystem of STO is currently stable (not perfect but stable) for us and we can enjoy our hobby and throw our money into your purses.
Why do you think that it is necessary to change that?
Additionally STO is the only game (and most likely will remain the only game) of Cryptic/PWE that I play, so I have no need for the software, so I do not benefit in any way from it compared to the current launching mechanism.
Please just make ARC optional for everyone to choose freely.
I've played STO since its launch and have no problem with the current launcher. Why fix what isn't broken? This is the only PWE game I play and have no desire to play any others.
This sounds like 'Steam lite' to me.
A large part of my enjoyment of STO comes from being able to use more then one client at a time. It helps me be efficient and organized with my time.
I can appreciate WHY PWE wants to put their games into a Steam like setup, Steam has been a big success but if this comes at the cost of being able to run multiple instances of STO at one time, that is completely unacceptable to me
Ok, given that we will have to use Arc at some point in the future here is my input.
Regarding closing Arc once STO has launched, at the moment this is not possible, I have tried to do so and get a meesage pop up from Arc that basically tells me I ave to exit STO if I want to close Arc.
The opt-in opt-out of system monitering can only be done at install, there should be an option in the setings that allows me to change my mind.
So far, on a good note, I have not seen advertising for other PWI games in Arc, yes it lets me know the exist and lets me install them, but so far has not shoved them in my face, please keep it like this.
As for a suggestion I have not seen yet, if you are going to insist on keeping the browser a part of Arc, especially the game overlay, then it needs he option to add bookmarks to it, the site I am most likely to use in game is the wiki, or STO Acadamey, but if I can't bookmrk them in Arc I will just use my default browser where the bookmarks are.
I do have other things I would like to see in Arc as we will have to use it but they have already been mentioned and I will wait to see how they are implimented before comentating further.
I went from playing 12 hours a day, to 1 hour and when arc is mandetory it will be 0.
Keybind: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9355971&postcount=463
Bone1970 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone Trader don't belief in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone2 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. KDF Eng.
Warning: Not a native English-speaker, sorry if my English sucks.
Every time I read about ARC I flinch away from it.
I am running STO on Linux (Mint15 with Cross Over and WINE underneath it) which leaves me pretty much in the same boat as the mac users.
Has anybody thought about us? Is anybody at PWE looking into the problem?
How will things change for us and will we get the appropriate informations in advance or will we have to do wild troubleshooting instead of playing?
I have sincere doubts about native version for both systems and fear we will never see them actually (I know of the mac announcement, but I have my doubts).
The Ecosystem of STO is currently stable (not perfect but stable) for us and we can enjoy our hobby and throw our money into your purses.
Why do you think that it is necessary to change that?
Additionally STO is the only game (and most likely will remain the only game) of Cryptic/PWE that I play, so I have no need for the software, so I do not benefit in any way from it compared to the current launching mechanism.
Please just make ARC optional for everyone to choose freely.
yes any responses to the wine crowd would be highly appreciated
pwe has chosen to ignore the many hundreds of pages and posts from customers saying they neither want or need arc and decided to make it mandatory - easiest way to deal with it is not walk away from a game I enjoy ,but I no longer see the need to pay a sub for an unwanted and invasive product that I don't want!
$15 a month isn't much of a lose for a company like pwe but if that gets multiplied by others with the same feelings then they might actually pay attention to their customers!
(I'm not naive enough to think pwe will listen to the complaints but what the hell have a rant and atleast save myself some money to spend on things I do want!).
I don't buy it that Steam users will not have to use ARC. Steam basically brings up the same launcher we have right now. Then you click ENGAGE.
If by what he's saying that goes away, how will Steam still use the old method unless it's still being worked that way too.
So either Cryptic will take time to continue work on the current launcher or Steam will be hit by this too. Don't lie to the people.
This smells of "PWE thought more STO/CO players would play their grindfest POS games when they bought Cryptic. When not that many jumped, they thought of trying to force the ads about those POS games." If they really wanted more inter-game out of me, make the Zen universal with no lockdown possible. No more Zen for this game and Zen for that game. Then I *MIGHT* look at their POS games. Probably not but that's a step up from Hell to the NO, PWE.
___________________
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
The sheer amount of PWE's raw ignorance never ceases to amaze me.
Here, I'll be constructive - let's start with the easy bits before we get into the more delicate ones:
1. You guys MUST MAKE ARC BE ABLE TO SHUT DOWN AFTER IT LAUNHES THE GAME if the person decides so. Granted, there will be some people that play more PWE/Cryptic games that might benefit from it running, but there are those that just one to play one game and don't care.
You're making Arc to make things easier on your end, we get it, but if you're honest about it being all about that and not about adding spyware/bloatware that it really needs to have the option to shut down at launch if the customer decides so. You don't need Arc to run on my PC while I play STO in order to make your work easier.
If you're being honest about this being only to group and ease the work on your end, you'll make the option to shut it down after the launch availible before it sees the light of the day as a 'must' platform.
Also think about it - how many people could have issues with running their older machine just because Arc has to work in background? Older machines that can run STO just fine, but the inclusion of background processes clogs them and kills the gameplay?
Do you want to alienate those customers that otherwise play, enjoy and pay for STO just because Arc doesn't have the option to shut down on launch based on the player's preference?
2. The 10 GB reserved space. It's completely unneccessary and noone really needs Arc to reserve spece for possible future installation of PWE games. Frankly, it sounds a bit insulting. We know how to manage our HD space, don't really need Arc to do it for us, especially for those that really have no intention of installing anything more than STO or whatever PWE/Cryptic games they already have installed.
Please straighten this out and make Arc only take the amount of HD space only it needs and not 'reserving' space for something that might never happen.
I understand the need for unification of PWEs infrastructure, I really do. But many people don't have extra proceeding power to loose to a game platform. No matter how lean you make arc, it will still be there sucking up resources.
If you really are open to feedback, like you say, may I recommend a second program called the Arc Launcher. This essentially is a small small standalone launcher which still utilizes the arc framework to install, patch and load PWE games, but doesn't run in the background and doesn't have any of the extra features or overlays. This would still allow you to proceed with your infrastructure unification while still offering an option to those who don't want a full game platform.
This would also give you an avenue to integrate games downloaded through other game platforms, such as Steam. That way patches can still be handled through the Arc framework, but not run into the hassles of having two game platforms.
There's a lot of room for compromise here, I hope you'll consider it.
Comments
This, if true, is absolutely totally and utterly unacceptable to me, dezstravus. Cryptic's games, along with my OS and most of my Steam stuff, all run on a 240GB SSD drive. I can NOT WASTE 10GB of that data at all times in the 'hopes' that I'll install another PWE game.
That is a joke and must be removed if true.
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Also agree, if true. I don't have Arc so I can't say whether it's true or not. If it is, then the alternative is to play STO through Steam.
If this system should be forced upon me to play this game, then I will immediately end all support of Star Trek Online and find another online game to play.
Well that answers that I guess, I just wonder when this eventually is gonna happen?
I still don't want the dang thing, but if you're gonna force us to use it it's not much to do now is it?
Ive tried this on a release of ARC about 2 months ago and the problem was that only one instance of ARC could run at a time. The workaround was to use arc to bring up the STO launcher and then close ARC to reopen it again with the second account however it sounds like this workaround may not still work in future builds when the launcher is built into ARC. This is an aspect of STO that we've been able to enjoy for what will likely be 4 plus years before ARC is fully instituted and it would be a shame to lose it for something that is supposed to "enrich your" (our) "game experience even further".
Steam does everything you're trying to build with Arc.
Steam can push out game updates, technically you could do away with the launcher with it. You/Cryptic just choose not to use their infrastructure.
It supports DLC and theoretically all the C-Store can go into Steam as DLC for the game.
Steam has the community stuff for social. IM Chat, profile pages, groups, achievements, gifting, market place, the list goes on...
It can be configured to be as non intrusive as you like.
Websites being viewable in arc, is just as easily achievable in steam via overlay.
Linux or Mac, Steam has it covered too.
The best content delivery system currently available used by the largest proportion of players around the world than Arc ever will be and you want to go create your own?
I'm yet to read anything Arc does that Steam cannot.
So let me get this right: You don't want to make "Bloatware", but yet PWE is committed into forcing their users, at some point, to use the equivalent of "Bloatware"? Regardless of how much of a footprint ARC might be, it's a secondary program running along side the game you want to run, eating up system resources it doesn't need to and capable of sending info back to PWE. Sure seems to be "Bloatware" to me...
I'm sorry, but the above is a non-starter with me. I don't have a problem with a application that can be a all-in-one launcher/updater. but I should be able to decide if I want to have it running or not after it's done the launch and/or updating.
Again, I can understand and acknowledge streamlining and unifying the back-end processes. That is a good and acceptable goal.
If it was just a launcher, I can accept that. I do not want or need a secondary browser when I have one running currently. There are times when having separate "...channels of information feeds..." is, in essence, more effective.
Nothing I've seen so far instills any confidence that even installing ARC will make my enjoyment of STO any better than it currently is. As it is, if the progression of ARC continues and all players will be forced into using it, I will stop playing STO when ARC be comes mandatory. I can also guarantee at least one other player for similar reasons.
Bottom line: Make Arc either non-mandatory or include the functionality to turn it off after game launch and you may find greater acceptance in the long term.
Thank you for the time...
Cryptic, would you actulaly like me to spend actual Money? It's Simple:
Yet, especially on the above note, I do have to wonder, why does PWE "need" to reinvent the wheel (ARC) when adapting Cryptic's existing tech to support the PWE slate would be "just as much work to those PWE games" and less work overall...
I see "cross-game chat" as a "benefit" of ARC. Again, Cryptic has this tech "in-hand", heck, the Cryptic chat system has this and access via a specific client that allows non-players to chat with the "in-game crowd". Replace all of PWE's chat systems with Cryptic's, goal met using "in-game windows only" - no extra windows cluttering the UIs and...
on the subject of "lean" - Cryptic's current launcher uses 0 bits of RAM after it does it's job - that of giving me the latest pile of advertisements, news, and checks the game version / patches if necessary. Obviously, even 1 byte of RAM used by anything after the game fully starts is "thicker" than what we have now.
Which leaves "social media integration" as a reason to have a system running at the same time the game does. However, is PWE planning on going down the "Zynga road" where every accolade / ticker flyer (Jane has reached L9 of no-win scenerio. Joebob has just received the blankety-blank ship from the blah-blah lockbox. More spam in a second) has to be posted/tweeted?
Oh, that's right, the "web stuff". While I could just repeat myself, as Cryptic's launcher does limited HTML-code in-window (news links, picture links, etc.), and delivers this content via our browser of choice - hearing that there is an integrated browser in this system makes me question the "lean-ness" of the system again, browsers are notoriously chunky with it's HTML decoding code already, fairly useless in-game unless you're adding browsing to the in-game interfaces - hearing that it's possibly tied to internet exploiter makes it even more questionable (you mean I avoid IE because it's the target-du-jour of hackers, and to get into game I have to be exposed to this, and it's most likely unpatched because it's not part of Microsoft's ecosystem after the integration?)
Granted, I'm somewhat "old school" and don't care for some of this, but I have to ask, in summary, exactly what ARC is gonna offer that isn't already around?
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
No ARC for me thanks. :mad:
I already have STEAM and prefer that.
This bit has me somewhat concerned because of how "smoothly" the conversion from Cryptic Accounts to PW Accounts went(and I still get the Cryptic Login Bug on their games, even NW which was made after Cryptic Accounts). If they do a type of 'Channel Merger" between the games will Cryptic's games get 1st crack at the names of those channels? Do PW games even have user chat channels? Are some channels which are over 4 years old run the risk of being either merged into other channels or you getting the happy reply from CS of,"You can just remake the channel(this is not a random example right here but something from a recent issue where I learned that PW CS doesn't have people who know enough about the Cryptic Games for basic adjustments and support)." I'm not saying it's the apocalypse of Cryptic's Channel System if it's merged. I'm just saying I do not know and I feel these are questions/considerations.
Or is this more in line with the Pidgin/Trillian abilities in Cryptic Games? Which, as I see it questions compatability issues as well as the previous channel structure and other concerns posted above.
Again, stuff I already have in place and can already do.
P.S. Does this mean Cryptic will begin to count for CORE or is that going away?
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Either PWE is lying about continuing to support Steam (they're waiting on Arc to actually be functional before announcing in order to not TRIBBLE of Valve before they're ready) or Arc will not be the exclusive method of downloading, patching, and launching all Perfect world games.
Can't have it both ways.
I don't want it.
STO is THE ONLY online game I play...
I am a Star Trek Fan..., NOT a PWE fan.
NONE, of your other games interest me. (I have looked at them in the past)
As hard as it would be, I WILL WALK AWAY from STO..., (thus taking away money from your pockets)...
... if I have to have your proprietary TRIBBLE running all the while, I'm playing this game.
That's as clear as I can make my feelings known about this topic.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I do, however, have a few questions:
1.) Will the STO client terminate if I close ARC after launching the game? (May a suggest adding a "Close ARC on game launch" option?)
2.) Is ARC able to detect a previous installation of a game, or will it require a fresh download? (How will that work for Steam users?)
3.) I notice there is a lot of talk of not only launchers, but also website restructuring; what impact will all this have on these/future forums?
As to #3...
It means we'll all probably be scrambling, once again, too reacquire our current forum names.
:rolleyes:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Having access to external chat through Pidgin and Trillian (and like the one Android software that it works with and the zero iOS ones) is part of why I stay a Gold member to one of your Cryptic titles - just so I can keep talking to my friends when I'm not in game. And I know of a LOT of people who are the same way.
If that goes, so will plenty of your more 'hardcore' player base. Especially as far as CO goes.
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If I already have a few cryptic games installed before arc is installed, will it auto detect their current location or will it reinstall the game from scratch.
I currently use other applications in conjunction with sto. I use Advanced combat tracker to monitor dps is one of them. Will there be an option so that if I launch star trek online that it can launch a few other applications that I specify with it? The only reason why I ask for user specified apps upon launch of certain games is that way you do not have to be aware of all combat log parsers out there but instead let the user define it.
As part of the launcher would there be an option to input client side commands into the launcher? Again looking at the dps parsers, I have to type '/combatlog 1" into my client each time I launch it.
How will arc be able to determine the shard I want to connect to. Currently the tribble shard is specified in the current sto launcher and not arc.
Personally I do not want a new launcher but if I can't prevent it I would certainly want to see it be the best it can be now before it is made. If there can be a few option to make my life simpler, the better.
A launcher should be just that - a launcher. By definition, its purpose is not to "improve gaming experience", but to <shock> launch games.
The problem here is that ARC is not just a launcher and, as many above posted, is very intrusive.
I get that you're trying to add so-called features like a browser or unified chat and <gasp> integration with social media (because we REALLY need that...) just to divert attention from the real purpose of this software - advertising PWE products.
I understand the need to advertise your own games, I really do.
But would it be so difficult to just add PWE games to the CURRENT LAUNCHER? Which is quite stable, it doesn't pointlessly use large amounts of resources and is not intrusive?
I understand that this was not your decision, and that you're just employees of a much bigger fish, but there are moments when issues like these need to be confronted by someone.
We already have a fully functional, minimal and sufficient launcher - it is the current one.
Just use html magiks and redesign the webpage displayed in the current launcher with a list of PWE games or whatever and be done with it.
"The quest for the Book of Ignum"
"I have seen your future. I have seen your end"
I don't need or want an additional browser, particularly anything IE based.
I don't need or want social media integration.
I don't need or want advertisements about games I will never play.
I don't need or want drive space dedicated to my aforementioned lack of desire to play these games.
I don't need or want extra software running in the background while I play. As it is I turn off Steam the moment I don't need it. Which is also a reason I have precious few Steam games.
I don't need or want my system spied on by PWE, and I don't trust that you won't, opt in or not.
So glad there are other games on the horizon that I had planned on splitting my gaming time with. You've just made the decision for me about the need to split my gaming time - I won't have to now. So, thanks for that I guess.
Make no mistake. This is not an I quit post. This is a flat refusal to use ARC in any capacity. Since I will be required to use it if I want to play STO at some point in the future, this amounts to me being forced out of the game.
works just fine with my steam download
I use ARC purely for the one click im in....if i luanch from steam i have to put my login details everytime.....only used the steam sterter if im adding zen from my steam wallet
The reason is that I'm on a slightly older system, and do not have a ton of ram to play around with.
If ARC has a big memory footprint, I might be forced to get more ram for my rig, just so I can play STO. You better have ARC use as small of a memory footprint as possible, otherwise you are not only forcing us to use ARC, but also forcing those of us with slightly older systems to uppgrade ram or other components, wich can expensive...
I do understand the thought behind ARC, but why force it on the Cryptic users, when the current Cryptic launcher works so well. Just seems like a step in the wrong direction...
I am running STO on Linux (Mint15 with Cross Over and WINE underneath it) which leaves me pretty much in the same boat as the mac users.
Has anybody thought about us? Is anybody at PWE looking into the problem?
How will things change for us and will we get the appropriate informations in advance or will we have to do wild troubleshooting instead of playing?
I have sincere doubts about native version for both systems and fear we will never see them actually (I know of the mac announcement, but I have my doubts).
The Ecosystem of STO is currently stable (not perfect but stable) for us and we can enjoy our hobby and throw our money into your purses.
Why do you think that it is necessary to change that?
Additionally STO is the only game (and most likely will remain the only game) of Cryptic/PWE that I play, so I have no need for the software, so I do not benefit in any way from it compared to the current launching mechanism.
Please just make ARC optional for everyone to choose freely.
This sounds like 'Steam lite' to me.
A large part of my enjoyment of STO comes from being able to use more then one client at a time. It helps me be efficient and organized with my time.
I can appreciate WHY PWE wants to put their games into a Steam like setup, Steam has been a big success but if this comes at the cost of being able to run multiple instances of STO at one time, that is completely unacceptable to me
Cryptic Account: Robert_Praetori
Regarding closing Arc once STO has launched, at the moment this is not possible, I have tried to do so and get a meesage pop up from Arc that basically tells me I ave to exit STO if I want to close Arc.
The opt-in opt-out of system monitering can only be done at install, there should be an option in the setings that allows me to change my mind.
So far, on a good note, I have not seen advertising for other PWI games in Arc, yes it lets me know the exist and lets me install them, but so far has not shoved them in my face, please keep it like this.
As for a suggestion I have not seen yet, if you are going to insist on keeping the browser a part of Arc, especially the game overlay, then it needs he option to add bookmarks to it, the site I am most likely to use in game is the wiki, or STO Acadamey, but if I can't bookmrk them in Arc I will just use my default browser where the bookmarks are.
I do have other things I would like to see in Arc as we will have to use it but they have already been mentioned and I will wait to see how they are implimented before comentating further.
Bone1970 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone Trader don't belief in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone2 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. KDF Eng.
Warning: Not a native English-speaker, sorry if my English sucks.
yes any responses to the wine crowd would be highly appreciated
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
$15 a month isn't much of a lose for a company like pwe but if that gets multiplied by others with the same feelings then they might actually pay attention to their customers!
(I'm not naive enough to think pwe will listen to the complaints but what the hell have a rant and atleast save myself some money to spend on things I do want!).
If by what he's saying that goes away, how will Steam still use the old method unless it's still being worked that way too.
So either Cryptic will take time to continue work on the current launcher or Steam will be hit by this too. Don't lie to the people.
This smells of "PWE thought more STO/CO players would play their grindfest POS games when they bought Cryptic. When not that many jumped, they thought of trying to force the ads about those POS games." If they really wanted more inter-game out of me, make the Zen universal with no lockdown possible. No more Zen for this game and Zen for that game. Then I *MIGHT* look at their POS games. Probably not but that's a step up from Hell to the NO, PWE.
"There is no problem in the universe that can't be solved with a bribe, a paid assassin, or an overpowered fighter." - Chubain from Jumpgate Evolution
Here, I'll be constructive - let's start with the easy bits before we get into the more delicate ones:
1. You guys MUST MAKE ARC BE ABLE TO SHUT DOWN AFTER IT LAUNHES THE GAME if the person decides so. Granted, there will be some people that play more PWE/Cryptic games that might benefit from it running, but there are those that just one to play one game and don't care.
You're making Arc to make things easier on your end, we get it, but if you're honest about it being all about that and not about adding spyware/bloatware that it really needs to have the option to shut down at launch if the customer decides so. You don't need Arc to run on my PC while I play STO in order to make your work easier.
If you're being honest about this being only to group and ease the work on your end, you'll make the option to shut it down after the launch availible before it sees the light of the day as a 'must' platform.
Also think about it - how many people could have issues with running their older machine just because Arc has to work in background? Older machines that can run STO just fine, but the inclusion of background processes clogs them and kills the gameplay?
Do you want to alienate those customers that otherwise play, enjoy and pay for STO just because Arc doesn't have the option to shut down on launch based on the player's preference?
2. The 10 GB reserved space. It's completely unneccessary and noone really needs Arc to reserve spece for possible future installation of PWE games. Frankly, it sounds a bit insulting. We know how to manage our HD space, don't really need Arc to do it for us, especially for those that really have no intention of installing anything more than STO or whatever PWE/Cryptic games they already have installed.
Please straighten this out and make Arc only take the amount of HD space only it needs and not 'reserving' space for something that might never happen.
I understand the need for unification of PWEs infrastructure, I really do. But many people don't have extra proceeding power to loose to a game platform. No matter how lean you make arc, it will still be there sucking up resources.
If you really are open to feedback, like you say, may I recommend a second program called the Arc Launcher. This essentially is a small small standalone launcher which still utilizes the arc framework to install, patch and load PWE games, but doesn't run in the background and doesn't have any of the extra features or overlays. This would still allow you to proceed with your infrastructure unification while still offering an option to those who don't want a full game platform.
This would also give you an avenue to integrate games downloaded through other game platforms, such as Steam. That way patches can still be handled through the Arc framework, but not run into the hassles of having two game platforms.
There's a lot of room for compromise here, I hope you'll consider it.