The Voth were shown in Voyager to be a VERY petty race. They were planning to wipe out the crew of Voyager(or maybe just the humans) to hide the existence of a distant relative to themselves. They used torture to force one of their own kind to denounce the idea that humans and Voth were related. Need I continue?
In summary, the Voth might be an ancient race, but they're not an enlightened one....
You haven't watched the episode. They did no such thing. They wanted to put crew into a worker camp to hide the distant origin theory, not murder them nor did they torture the scientist's assistant. They merely threatened to strip him of his class and social order. So no, please don't continue unless you plan on using the proper context in your attempt to argue.
Nobody argues that they weren't bigots. Just that they're territorial and overly defensive to the extent that they'd capture an entire ship to justify the means.
Actually, radio broadcasts potential would tell you little..... the use of long range multi-directional transmissions as a broadcast medium only lasts a short time..... even at out present state we have already passed that point and rely on unidirectional systems.
In ST Timeline the vulcans and Andorians already had warp drive and were using subspace as a communications medium during the time we were heavily using radio transmissions.... and we would have been relying on stone tools when the Vulcan's were using radio as a medium.... While SETI was always a neat idea.... even in the most optimal idea it would be an longshot to actually pick up anything.
You inferred he was responsible for dreaming up this new enemy when in fact it was the writers on Voyager that came up with the Voth idea.
If you are going to start laying blame put it where it belongs. Gecko didn't put Dino's in Trek. Voyager/CBS did.
I see, when you're in a bind scrapping for a point you use your imagination. And no, dinosaurs were not involved in the voth episode until they use the ship's computer to extrapolate a connection. That's like saying pre-hominids are in star trek because human beings are.
You haven't watched the episode. They did no such thing. They wanted to put crew into a worker camp to hide the distant origin theory, not murder them nor did they torture the scientist's assistant. They merely threatened to strip him of his class and social order. So no, please don't continue unless you plan on using the proper context in your attempt to argue.
Nobody argues that they weren't bigots. Just that they're territorial and overly defensive to the extent that they'd capture an entire ship to justify the means.
We were given a glimpse of the Voth culture, nothing more. However that glimpse clearly showed a leadership involved in tyranny. The fact is that the Ministry were using Doctrine as an oppressive tool to retain a power-hold over the populace. There were statements about more enlightened individuals - particularly among the scientific and philosophical communities - but any support Gegen mustered for the Distant Origin Theory was very quickly quashed by the Minister, so the implication is that there wasn't THAT much mind being paid to challenging the status quo by members of the populace.
As such, it's a matter of a mere step to bring "justifiable" violence into the picture, not to mention the inherent arrogance of the Voth, and their belief that "Endotherms" were inferior (Gegen himself held this belief until he spent time with Chakotay), could easily lead them into conflict over something such as a Dyson Sphere, not only due to the notion that they, as a much older and more technologically advanced race, are more apt, responsible and deserving claimants for such technology, but also to keep potentially threatening technology out of the hands of inferior species (sort of like the Americans threatening to beat seven bells out of the Iranians if they continue trying to develop nukes....).
We were given a glimpse of the Voth culture, nothing more. However that glimpse clearly showed a leadership involved in tyranny. The fact is that the Ministry were using Doctrine as an oppressive tool to retain a power-hold over the populace. There were statements about more enlightened individuals - particularly among the scientific and philosophical communities - but any support Gegen mustered for the Distant Origin Theory was very quickly quashed by the Minister, so the implication is that there wasn't THAT much mind being paid to challenging the status quo by members of the populace.
As such, it's a matter of a mere step to bring "justifiable" violence into the picture, not to mention the inherent arrogance of the Voth, and their belief that "Endotherms" were inferior (Gegen himself held this belief until he spent time with Chakotay), could easily lead them into conflict over something such as a Dyson Sphere, not only due to the notion that they, as a much older and more technologically advanced race, are more apt, responsible and deserving claimants for such technology, but also to keep potentially threatening technology out of the hands of inferior species (sort of like the Americans threatening to beat seven bells out of the Iranians if they continue trying to develop nukes....).
That's why I can go along with the warrior thing. They didn't get into a superior technological advancement by being peaceful in their past, surely. Any other medium and I'd enjoy mech warrior battles and dino riding if that suits my fancy but it still doesn't feel right. All of us who protested in the protest thread all agreed that making it into a mech warrior/dinosaucers thing was boldly going where most ST enthusiasts never thought it'd go.
I've been on board for mostly everything they've done until this. Even though the images they scrap booked look cool, their approach is small minded. I'd expect more from a technologically superior race than having extinct animals with lasers on their heads.
I've been on board for mostly everything they've done until this. Even though the images they scrap booked look cool, their approach is small minded. I'd expect more from a technologically superior race than having extinct animals with lasers on their heads.
It's the point of compromise between introducing a "realistic" (I hesitate using that term!) race that there's really very little information on, and creating something a bit fun and quirky, which I feel - when I read about the brainstorming process behind the episode, with Joe Menosky saying "basically we were thinking dinos with automatic weapons" - actually captures the spirit of the thought process that led to Distant Origin.
I know it's conceivably a step beyond what was envisioned by Trek fans, but the writers were originally thinking "dinos with guns", and here Cryptic's giving us literally that - it's funky in a way.
I'm not 100% on board with what is coming with the Voth release. I'm all for the Voth, but I'm not sure the direction they have taken with the Voth is thematic with Star Trek. From their creation of the costuming, the dino's, and other things.
I also like the idea of the Dyson's sphere, but I'm worried they can't keep it thematic with Star Trek. I wish they would have used the one the Enterprise-D found, that one, IMO, would have felt more immerse. It was an already known sphere from the show, and having it in this game would have given us the chance to explore it in a way we didn't get to see on the show, it'd show us what was down on that surface.
Season 8 is making me think that Cryptic, or PWE, wants to downgrade Star Trek Online into a "General SCIFI" type of MMO, loosely based on Star Trek. I'm getting that worrying feeling in the pit of my stomach.
I look at Season 8 so far and think "Mass Effect" or "Halo", not Star Trek. And that's not a good thing. Imagine how people on the outside, who have never played the game before, are looking at it.
Plus, there are so many unfinished things in STO, and parts of the game that need a big overhaul first, before introducing a completely new thing like this into the game that was only seen in one episode of Voyager, and a sphere that is completely made up and never seen in the show.
I would like the Star Trek to come back to Star Trek Online please.
Thanks,
A Loyal Lifetime Fan since Open Beta
It never was. When the game was released I was flying around sector space without a space ship.
It's the point of compromise between introducing a "realistic" (I hesitate using that term!) race that there's really very little information on, and creating something a bit fun and quirky, which I feel - when I read about the brainstorming process behind the episode, with Joe Menosky saying "basically we were thinking dinos with automatic weapons" - actually captures the spirit of the thought process that led to Distant Origin.
I know it's conceivably a step beyond what was envisioned by Trek fans, but the writers were originally thinking "dinos with guns", and here Cryptic's giving us literally that - it's funky in a way.
I know they're going to do what they want regardless of what innumerable players have protested about but my only wish is that they'd make a reasonable tie-in that makes it acceptable. If we're going to be force fed mech warrior and dionosaucers style game play I want them to make it make sense at least. Serious backdrop needed since everything they're doing is completely opposite of that episode.
It's the point of compromise between introducing a "realistic" (I hesitate using that term!) race that there's really very little information on, and creating something a bit fun and quirky, which I feel - when I read about the brainstorming process behind the episode, with Joe Menosky saying "basically we were thinking dinos with automatic weapons" - actually captures the spirit of the thought process that led to Distant Origin.
I know it's conceivably a step beyond what was envisioned by Trek fans, but the writers were originally thinking "dinos with guns", and here Cryptic's giving us literally that - it's funky in a way.
I think part of the problem is that too many so called Trek Fans think the movies are what Star Trek is, not necessarily the JJ ones, even the older ones were more ships and flash, with a lot less morality and exploration.
I remember distinctly when TNG came out, all the so called Star Trek fans saying "This isn't Star Trek", and it's become one of the iconic most beloved Star Trek series of all times, arguably right behind TOS. DS9 lost a lot of the Star Trek flair, making it flash and guns with no exploration of anything at times. Voyager tried to stay true to the theme and probably was the closest thematically to Gene's original theory, but the writting was off and it was too far out there for a lot of people to connect.
They want flash and star ships. Look at STO, it's flash and star ships at launch, and people loved it. Now they're trying to expand the horizons and people are fighting it. It's too be expected. I think the only person who truly got Star Trek, was Gene Roddenberry. The rest of us mortals are just trying to grasp at a star.
I know they're going to do what they want regardless of what innumerable players have protested about but my only wish is that they'd make a reasonable tie-in that makes it acceptable. If we're going to be force fed mech warrior and dionosaucers style game play I want them to make it make sense at least. Serious backdrop needed since everything they're doing is completely opposite of that episode.
AFAIK not very many players are protesting.... Reactions posted to the forum have been very varied with yours at one extreme, and very few in agreement.
AFAIK not very many players are protesting.... Reactions posted to the forum have been very varied with yours at one extreme, and very few in agreement.
You obviously didn't read the protest thread then.
I'm not 100% on board with what is coming with the Voth release. I'm all for the Voth, but I'm not sure the direction they have taken with the Voth is thematic with Star Trek. From their creation of the costuming, the dino's, and other things.
I also like the idea of the Dyson's sphere, but I'm worried they can't keep it thematic with Star Trek. I wish they would have used the one the Enterprise-D found, that one, IMO, would have felt more immerse. It was an already known sphere from the show, and having it in this game would have given us the chance to explore it in a way we didn't get to see on the show, it'd show us what was down on that surface.
Season 8 is making me think that Cryptic, or PWE, wants to downgrade Star Trek Online into a "General SCIFI" type of MMO, loosely based on Star Trek. I'm getting that worrying feeling in the pit of my stomach.
I look at Season 8 so far and think "Mass Effect" or "Halo", not Star Trek. And that's not a good thing. Imagine how people on the outside, who have never played the game before, are looking at it.
Plus, there are so many unfinished things in STO, and parts of the game that need a big overhaul first, before introducing a completely new thing like this into the game that was only seen in one episode of Voyager, and a sphere that is completely made up and never seen in the show.
I would like the Star Trek to come back to Star Trek Online please.
Thanks,
A Loyal Lifetime Fan since Open Beta
I'm old enough to remember when Star Trek used to be Star Trek. Then in 1987 - Star Trek: The Next Generation came along and started ret-conning stuff like The Prime Directive - which in Star Trek only applied to primitive cultures with no knowledge of space travel, or life on other planets <--- And if either of these conditions didn't apply, contact (and interaction could occur). Along comes TNG suddenly stating the Prime Directive forbids interference with non-member Federation societies. And TNG didn't stop ret-conning stuff there...
My point? After 47 years, 'Star Trek' has changed a great deal. I don't see anything in STO that is so out of bounds, it can't be called a part of 'Star Trek'. Hell EVERY new entry into Star Trek (starting with the animated series in 1973) has usually been disliked by some fans and labeled 'not Trek' (Including TNG when it premiered, DS9 when it premiered, et. al.)
If it doesn't work for you, that's a valid opinion to be sure, but I've yet to see any new element introduced to the Star Trek mythos not gain acceptance by most at some point. And I've been watching Star Trek since 1969 - and involved in Star trek fandom since 1975.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
i felt STo was diverging dangerously with carriers
i like the voth.. hell i love the voth.. but yeah.. it looks wierd..
plus power armour and battle suits.. dangerous ground
star trek was always light infantry as the starship in orbit would take out anything heavy in the way of infantry, see ds9 when ben joins the guys holding off the dominion.. grab a phaser and get in a hole.. no battlemechs/tanks or other heavies just infantry and orbital support
p.s PAID RACE CHANGE, delete my character and give me a new one at max level.. i fine with even that
as i wont be grinding anything older factions anyway
Is that point not completely undermined by the fact that in the writing process they decided to use the backdrop of dino-aliens to tell a story that ends up being about people and ethical/moral issues rather than about the dino-aliens themselves?
If anything, you could take Distant Origin as a good example of a 'typical' Star Trek storyline largely because they decided to do something with it other than just have Starfleet fight dinosaurs with space lasers.
At the end of the day Star Trek was a show about people, not starships, not the Borg, not the Dominion.
What this guy said 100%.
Star trek isn't all about cool space battles, its about human morality. Different aliens were analogous to cultures on earth at the time.
I don't think the devs realize this aspect of star trek or they choose to ignore it. The have turned a tv show about complex moral issues in to combat focused mmo. Don't mistake this for complaining, I enjoy playing sto but it definitely is not the stuff of the series.
What this guy said 100%.
Star trek isn't all about cool space battles, its about human morality. Different aliens were analogous to cultures on earth at the time.
I don't think the devs realize this aspect of star trek or they choose to ignore it. The have turned a tv show about complex moral issues in to combat focused mmo. Don't mistake this for complaining, I enjoy playing sto but it definitely is not the stuff of the series.
Well.... complex moral stories just don't fit into the MMO genre. This is not to say that STO is completely lacking in stories that involve morality, just that focusing on morality would be kinda like reading a novel.... but in a computer game.
Safe to say if you expected any kind of MMO, based on Star Trek or not, to be anything more than what STO is then you were expecting infinity to end.
Besides, if you want something truly based around your typical Star Trek episode (Hint hint: not every episode was based around morality or even exploration. Even a lot of the ones that tried to play it off as if they were actually weren't, with the focus on whatever they were actually going for (comedy, action, etc) being very clear) then you have the Foundry.
Good to see you here Doc... I saw your videos when I first played STO, with my ENG FED. Well, I'm still watching... waiting to see you with a Scimitar!
When you come to this game, playing trought the history for the first time, leveling up... this game is awesome, all the Federation and even the KDF ones are good. The Romulans too.
This part of the game is fine, the problem, as all the mid era MMOs is with End Game Stuff.
When you hit lvl 50, you find your self thinking how you face it, well, you enter a fleet, then you discover a vast portion of the players that are just jerks... or worst... throlls.
The feeling of absence of Star Trek is not because of content, BOFFs Borg and the like, is because Cryptic is throwing all of this whitout the basic principle of Star Trek: Science.
We don't have any explanation at all for so many things, I mean, Tech Bubble, like Star Trek does when something needs explanation. Also... KDF and Romulans are much more imersive factions than the Federation, because the Federation is not what it is supose to be anymore.
In all shows we always saw a Federation that only goes to conflict when necessary, like DS9 did with all the Dominion War.
The Klingons... always great warriors, full of pride, but honorable. Why they even killed Martok? That man was a TRUE Klingon!
Romulans... they planet exploded now they are less violent? Fine. Loose their pride and "scheme roman style"?
I go even further... Where is the debates about life, existance, racism, philosophy... THAT's the Star Trek part I miss in Star Trek Online.
Like... what good technical explanation we'll get for Voth using T-Rex with Beams? Amusiment? The T-Rexs killed some of their ancestors, now they tamed them just for revenge?
-- "If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Jean-Luc Picard
The big question actually is, how do you create an MMORPG that is -truly- Trek? By what most critics say it would have to focus around exploration, finding new worlds making diplomatic contact with new species, etc.
But you can't have realistic diplomacy with an AI, things are bound to repeat, the "new" species would kinda look like the last two you found with different skin colours and extra antennas, the Dialogue would grow stale and repeat itself after a while and who is supposed to map out and model hundrets of star systems and planets that are actually interesting to explore and diverse enough to keep ones attention over months?
It would work for single player games with a clear story and end, but not for an open ended MMORPG.
The closest we get is the foundry, thanks to player effort, we get a steady stream of new stuff to explore, but even this has limits.
Star Trek has been ever shifting and changing, sometimes from Episode to episode. Sure, armoured Dinosaurs look like something out of an 80s cartoon for kids, but that doesn't mean there is no chance they wouldn't have shown up in Star trek (I'm actually sure they would have, had the budget been given) and we can't exactly say something is not "Trek" just because it never showed up in an episode.
-
Join Starfleet,
Boldly go where no man has gone before,
Meet interesting new species, and Kill them!
As I have numerous friends in other games, ive asked them what they thought of this update for the game and they all, every single one of them seen the information and pictures, even some of them are trek fans, and they all lol'd at it all. They even asked me why I was playing this game still and not moved on.
This season has really done it in for me. I cant even log on just because I know whats in store for the game, and frankly I cant take cryptic and pwe serious anymore. All there content now isn't enjoyable.. its nothing but grind after grind. Yeah I know mmo's consist of grinds but at least other games have other avenues to them to enjoy.
Though they have done themselves in already "my view" they haven't beefed up anything, its almost like smoke and mirrors with them. They said they up't their team but are now behind on a feature episode do to new tech they want to apply. Bugs haven't been getting the attention they should be, I mean its going on what 3-4 months now and the bloody romulan rep outfit 1 is still clipping.. and was reported by numerous people.. not to mention the kdf adapted visuals and a long list of other bugs still not getting attention or commented on.
I honestly think dino's for me just made me not want to continue on with this game anymore.. and I know it sounds silly, but honestly... game feels like a huge joke. And no.. you cant have my stuff :P
I'm not 100% on board with what is coming with the Voth release. I'm all for the Voth, but I'm not sure the direction they have taken with the Voth is thematic with Star Trek. From their creation of the costuming, the dino's, and other things.
I also like the idea of the Dyson's sphere, but I'm worried they can't keep it thematic with Star Trek. I wish they would have used the one the Enterprise-D found, that one, IMO, would have felt more immerse. It was an already known sphere from the show, and having it in this game would have given us the chance to explore it in a way we didn't get to see on the show, it'd show us what was down on that surface.
Season 8 is making me think that Cryptic, or PWE, wants to downgrade Star Trek Online into a "General SCIFI" type of MMO, loosely based on Star Trek. I'm getting that worrying feeling in the pit of my stomach.
I look at Season 8 so far and think "Mass Effect" or "Halo", not Star Trek. And that's not a good thing. Imagine how people on the outside, who have never played the game before, are looking at it.
Plus, there are so many unfinished things in STO, and parts of the game that need a big overhaul first, before introducing a completely new thing like this into the game that was only seen in one episode of Voyager, and a sphere that is completely made up and never seen in the show.
I would like the Star Trek to come back to Star Trek Online please.
Thanks,
A Loyal Lifetime Fan since Open Beta
This post is correct and accurate.
But also ultimately meaningless. So long as the entire structure of the game is based solely on finding new ways to convince the stupid to open those lockboxes, as it's the only meaningful way left in the game to progress, you'd better believe it's not about star trek. Which, I suppose is inevitable.
Because, as America's Congress has demonstrated, that's the kind of progress we approve of. Doesn't matter what we destroy, so long as we get ours, be it a shining ideal, the illusion of choice, or just the general concept of something clean and good and noble, if there's a dime to be made, trust that "we here at PWE" will work tirelessly to destroy in pursuit of that dime.
So no. It's not star trek. It's space gambling with a new skin to make you gamble for it more, and that's about it. Although the thing with the dino's is painfully similar to the another boneheaded totalfailure from WoW, the Pandas. That drove people off by the tens of thousands, wonder what it'll do to this game.
I'm not 100% on board with what is coming with the Voth release. I'm all for the Voth, but I'm not sure the direction they have taken with the Voth is thematic with Star Trek. From their creation of the costuming, the dino's, and other things.
I also like the idea of the Dyson's sphere, but I'm worried they can't keep it thematic with Star Trek. I wish they would have used the one the Enterprise-D found, that one, IMO, would have felt more immerse. It was an already known sphere from the show, and having it in this game would have given us the chance to explore it in a way we didn't get to see on the show, it'd show us what was down on that surface.
Season 8 is making me think that Cryptic, or PWE, wants to downgrade Star Trek Online into a "General SCIFI" type of MMO, loosely based on Star Trek. I'm getting that worrying feeling in the pit of my stomach.
I look at Season 8 so far and think "Mass Effect" or "Halo", not Star Trek. And that's not a good thing. Imagine how people on the outside, who have never played the game before, are looking at it.
Plus, there are so many unfinished things in STO, and parts of the game that need a big overhaul first, before introducing a completely new thing like this into the game that was only seen in one episode of Voyager, and a sphere that is completely made up and never seen in the show.
I would like the Star Trek to come back to Star Trek Online please.
Thanks,
A Loyal Lifetime Fan since Open Beta
I do remember and I miss it but Season 8 is far from the only thing that has killed the Trek feel. Honestly, while the game is sort of a Star Trek theme ride the inclusion of all these alien ships and the lock box crud has long since made it far less any sort of "Star Trek World" where you would hope to sort of live in the universe of Trek. They tried to bring some of it back with the Legacy of Romulus and to their credit their efforts were not for naught. While I abhor the stupid "Highly Sophisticated Technologically Advanced Romans turn into Gun Slingin' Wild West Cowboys" undercurrent to it at least the story, voice acting, and general progression and feel was enjoyable and well done.
However, I am not sure that anything can completely save the game though allowing you to drop the USS and IKS tag from alien ships was a wise start IMHO. This latest addition looks like it is going to be another chapter in a bit of gratuitous inclusions for the sake of having them.
However, it could not be that Sphere from TNG because its sun was going boom.
If you are going to start laying blame put it where it belongs. Gecko didn't put Dino's in Trek. Voyager/CBS did.
While that's an excellent point and something no one could argue..... did Cryptic (and it wasn't just Gecko's idea, for all we know he may very well have opposed space dinosaurs) really NEED to use that material? And then, instead of showing them as highly advanced technologists that are more or less bumbling (and they had to be, otherwise how did the horrendously obsolete Voyager get the better of them?) non allies/sorta enemies, we get high tech soldiers....hu?
I mean, its Voyager for crying out loud! Its like....alternate universe silliness, like a big several season long Star Wars Christmas Special! Heck, as brain cell killing as some (most) of JJTrek is, I think its a more credible candidate for cannonicity than Voyager.
I like this thread for one reason and one reason only. It keeps all the season 8 haters and close minded people who can't accept that a non human species might have different values and ways of thinking than us out of the other threads.
However, it could not be that Sphere from TNG because its sun was going boom.
It could'v easily been, they could've had the Voth show up and stabilize the star. How? Through super tech of course! That would allow players to have a link to one of the more memorable episodes from TNG, one of the most amazing locations, while also showing the players the level the Voth were at.
It could'v easily been, they could've had the Voth show up and stabilize the star. How? Through super tech of course! That would allow players to have a link to one of the more memorable episodes from TNG, one of the most amazing locations, while also showing the players the level the Voth were at.
The Voth are not that advanced. The 29th Century Federation was capable of time travel. Even the 23rd Century Federation was capable of time travel while we have not seen anything to indicate that the Voth are even capable of it. The Voth are only a few centuries more advanced than the Federation and not millions of years so it is extremely doubtful that the Voth could fix a dying star. Even if they could, their precious Doctrine would likely get in their way and prevent them from doing it. Fixing the Dyson Sphere from TNG episode would require an act of Q.
Indeed. Their Doctrine wouldn't even allow them to develop transwarp. Voth scientific advancements seem to be largely stifled because of such dogmatic drivel.
Comments
You haven't watched the episode. They did no such thing. They wanted to put crew into a worker camp to hide the distant origin theory, not murder them nor did they torture the scientist's assistant. They merely threatened to strip him of his class and social order. So no, please don't continue unless you plan on using the proper context in your attempt to argue.
Nobody argues that they weren't bigots. Just that they're territorial and overly defensive to the extent that they'd capture an entire ship to justify the means.
That would be news to anyone since nobody inferred that he was.
Agreed on this one!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
system Lord Baal is dead
It was somewhere in-between licensing and the start of development.
I see, when you're in a bind scrapping for a point you use your imagination. And no, dinosaurs were not involved in the voth episode until they use the ship's computer to extrapolate a connection. That's like saying pre-hominids are in star trek because human beings are.
We were given a glimpse of the Voth culture, nothing more. However that glimpse clearly showed a leadership involved in tyranny. The fact is that the Ministry were using Doctrine as an oppressive tool to retain a power-hold over the populace. There were statements about more enlightened individuals - particularly among the scientific and philosophical communities - but any support Gegen mustered for the Distant Origin Theory was very quickly quashed by the Minister, so the implication is that there wasn't THAT much mind being paid to challenging the status quo by members of the populace.
As such, it's a matter of a mere step to bring "justifiable" violence into the picture, not to mention the inherent arrogance of the Voth, and their belief that "Endotherms" were inferior (Gegen himself held this belief until he spent time with Chakotay), could easily lead them into conflict over something such as a Dyson Sphere, not only due to the notion that they, as a much older and more technologically advanced race, are more apt, responsible and deserving claimants for such technology, but also to keep potentially threatening technology out of the hands of inferior species (sort of like the Americans threatening to beat seven bells out of the Iranians if they continue trying to develop nukes....).
That's why I can go along with the warrior thing. They didn't get into a superior technological advancement by being peaceful in their past, surely. Any other medium and I'd enjoy mech warrior battles and dino riding if that suits my fancy but it still doesn't feel right. All of us who protested in the protest thread all agreed that making it into a mech warrior/dinosaucers thing was boldly going where most ST enthusiasts never thought it'd go.
I've been on board for mostly everything they've done until this. Even though the images they scrap booked look cool, their approach is small minded. I'd expect more from a technologically superior race than having extinct animals with lasers on their heads.
It's the point of compromise between introducing a "realistic" (I hesitate using that term!) race that there's really very little information on, and creating something a bit fun and quirky, which I feel - when I read about the brainstorming process behind the episode, with Joe Menosky saying "basically we were thinking dinos with automatic weapons" - actually captures the spirit of the thought process that led to Distant Origin.
I know it's conceivably a step beyond what was envisioned by Trek fans, but the writers were originally thinking "dinos with guns", and here Cryptic's giving us literally that - it's funky in a way.
I know they're going to do what they want regardless of what innumerable players have protested about but my only wish is that they'd make a reasonable tie-in that makes it acceptable. If we're going to be force fed mech warrior and dionosaucers style game play I want them to make it make sense at least. Serious backdrop needed since everything they're doing is completely opposite of that episode.
I think part of the problem is that too many so called Trek Fans think the movies are what Star Trek is, not necessarily the JJ ones, even the older ones were more ships and flash, with a lot less morality and exploration.
I remember distinctly when TNG came out, all the so called Star Trek fans saying "This isn't Star Trek", and it's become one of the iconic most beloved Star Trek series of all times, arguably right behind TOS. DS9 lost a lot of the Star Trek flair, making it flash and guns with no exploration of anything at times. Voyager tried to stay true to the theme and probably was the closest thematically to Gene's original theory, but the writting was off and it was too far out there for a lot of people to connect.
They want flash and star ships. Look at STO, it's flash and star ships at launch, and people loved it. Now they're trying to expand the horizons and people are fighting it. It's too be expected. I think the only person who truly got Star Trek, was Gene Roddenberry. The rest of us mortals are just trying to grasp at a star.
My character Tsin'xing
You obviously didn't read the protest thread then.
My character Tsin'xing
I'm old enough to remember when Star Trek used to be Star Trek. Then in 1987 - Star Trek: The Next Generation came along and started ret-conning stuff like The Prime Directive - which in Star Trek only applied to primitive cultures with no knowledge of space travel, or life on other planets <--- And if either of these conditions didn't apply, contact (and interaction could occur). Along comes TNG suddenly stating the Prime Directive forbids interference with non-member Federation societies. And TNG didn't stop ret-conning stuff there...
My point? After 47 years, 'Star Trek' has changed a great deal. I don't see anything in STO that is so out of bounds, it can't be called a part of 'Star Trek'. Hell EVERY new entry into Star Trek (starting with the animated series in 1973) has usually been disliked by some fans and labeled 'not Trek' (Including TNG when it premiered, DS9 when it premiered, et. al.)
If it doesn't work for you, that's a valid opinion to be sure, but I've yet to see any new element introduced to the Star Trek mythos not gain acceptance by most at some point. And I've been watching Star Trek since 1969 - and involved in Star trek fandom since 1975.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
i like the voth.. hell i love the voth.. but yeah.. it looks wierd..
plus power armour and battle suits.. dangerous ground
star trek was always light infantry as the starship in orbit would take out anything heavy in the way of infantry, see ds9 when ben joins the guys holding off the dominion.. grab a phaser and get in a hole.. no battlemechs/tanks or other heavies just infantry and orbital support
p.s PAID RACE CHANGE, delete my character and give me a new one at max level.. i fine with even that
as i wont be grinding anything older factions anyway
What this guy said 100%.
Star trek isn't all about cool space battles, its about human morality. Different aliens were analogous to cultures on earth at the time.
I don't think the devs realize this aspect of star trek or they choose to ignore it. The have turned a tv show about complex moral issues in to combat focused mmo. Don't mistake this for complaining, I enjoy playing sto but it definitely is not the stuff of the series.
My character Tsin'xing
Besides, if you want something truly based around your typical Star Trek episode (Hint hint: not every episode was based around morality or even exploration. Even a lot of the ones that tried to play it off as if they were actually weren't, with the focus on whatever they were actually going for (comedy, action, etc) being very clear) then you have the Foundry.
Good to see you here Doc... I saw your videos when I first played STO, with my ENG FED. Well, I'm still watching... waiting to see you with a Scimitar!
When you come to this game, playing trought the history for the first time, leveling up... this game is awesome, all the Federation and even the KDF ones are good. The Romulans too.
This part of the game is fine, the problem, as all the mid era MMOs is with End Game Stuff.
When you hit lvl 50, you find your self thinking how you face it, well, you enter a fleet, then you discover a vast portion of the players that are just jerks... or worst... throlls.
The feeling of absence of Star Trek is not because of content, BOFFs Borg and the like, is because Cryptic is throwing all of this whitout the basic principle of Star Trek: Science.
We don't have any explanation at all for so many things, I mean, Tech Bubble, like Star Trek does when something needs explanation. Also... KDF and Romulans are much more imersive factions than the Federation, because the Federation is not what it is supose to be anymore.
In all shows we always saw a Federation that only goes to conflict when necessary, like DS9 did with all the Dominion War.
The Klingons... always great warriors, full of pride, but honorable. Why they even killed Martok? That man was a TRUE Klingon!
Romulans... they planet exploded now they are less violent? Fine. Loose their pride and "scheme roman style"?
I go even further... Where is the debates about life, existance, racism, philosophy... THAT's the Star Trek part I miss in Star Trek Online.
Like... what good technical explanation we'll get for Voth using T-Rex with Beams? Amusiment? The T-Rexs killed some of their ancestors, now they tamed them just for revenge?
"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Jean-Luc Picard
But you can't have realistic diplomacy with an AI, things are bound to repeat, the "new" species would kinda look like the last two you found with different skin colours and extra antennas, the Dialogue would grow stale and repeat itself after a while and who is supposed to map out and model hundrets of star systems and planets that are actually interesting to explore and diverse enough to keep ones attention over months?
It would work for single player games with a clear story and end, but not for an open ended MMORPG.
The closest we get is the foundry, thanks to player effort, we get a steady stream of new stuff to explore, but even this has limits.
Star Trek has been ever shifting and changing, sometimes from Episode to episode. Sure, armoured Dinosaurs look like something out of an 80s cartoon for kids, but that doesn't mean there is no chance they wouldn't have shown up in Star trek (I'm actually sure they would have, had the budget been given) and we can't exactly say something is not "Trek" just because it never showed up in an episode.
Join Starfleet,
Boldly go where no man has gone before,
Meet interesting new species, and Kill them!
This season has really done it in for me. I cant even log on just because I know whats in store for the game, and frankly I cant take cryptic and pwe serious anymore. All there content now isn't enjoyable.. its nothing but grind after grind. Yeah I know mmo's consist of grinds but at least other games have other avenues to them to enjoy.
Though they have done themselves in already "my view" they haven't beefed up anything, its almost like smoke and mirrors with them. They said they up't their team but are now behind on a feature episode do to new tech they want to apply. Bugs haven't been getting the attention they should be, I mean its going on what 3-4 months now and the bloody romulan rep outfit 1 is still clipping.. and was reported by numerous people.. not to mention the kdf adapted visuals and a long list of other bugs still not getting attention or commented on.
I honestly think dino's for me just made me not want to continue on with this game anymore.. and I know it sounds silly, but honestly... game feels like a huge joke. And no.. you cant have my stuff :P
This post is correct and accurate.
But also ultimately meaningless. So long as the entire structure of the game is based solely on finding new ways to convince the stupid to open those lockboxes, as it's the only meaningful way left in the game to progress, you'd better believe it's not about star trek. Which, I suppose is inevitable.
Because, as America's Congress has demonstrated, that's the kind of progress we approve of. Doesn't matter what we destroy, so long as we get ours, be it a shining ideal, the illusion of choice, or just the general concept of something clean and good and noble, if there's a dime to be made, trust that "we here at PWE" will work tirelessly to destroy in pursuit of that dime.
So no. It's not star trek. It's space gambling with a new skin to make you gamble for it more, and that's about it. Although the thing with the dino's is painfully similar to the another boneheaded totalfailure from WoW, the Pandas. That drove people off by the tens of thousands, wonder what it'll do to this game.
I do remember and I miss it but Season 8 is far from the only thing that has killed the Trek feel. Honestly, while the game is sort of a Star Trek theme ride the inclusion of all these alien ships and the lock box crud has long since made it far less any sort of "Star Trek World" where you would hope to sort of live in the universe of Trek. They tried to bring some of it back with the Legacy of Romulus and to their credit their efforts were not for naught. While I abhor the stupid "Highly Sophisticated Technologically Advanced Romans turn into Gun Slingin' Wild West Cowboys" undercurrent to it at least the story, voice acting, and general progression and feel was enjoyable and well done.
However, I am not sure that anything can completely save the game though allowing you to drop the USS and IKS tag from alien ships was a wise start IMHO. This latest addition looks like it is going to be another chapter in a bit of gratuitous inclusions for the sake of having them.
However, it could not be that Sphere from TNG because its sun was going boom.
While that's an excellent point and something no one could argue..... did Cryptic (and it wasn't just Gecko's idea, for all we know he may very well have opposed space dinosaurs) really NEED to use that material? And then, instead of showing them as highly advanced technologists that are more or less bumbling (and they had to be, otherwise how did the horrendously obsolete Voyager get the better of them?) non allies/sorta enemies, we get high tech soldiers....hu?
I mean, its Voyager for crying out loud! Its like....alternate universe silliness, like a big several season long Star Wars Christmas Special! Heck, as brain cell killing as some (most) of JJTrek is, I think its a more credible candidate for cannonicity than Voyager.
It could'v easily been, they could've had the Voth show up and stabilize the star. How? Through super tech of course! That would allow players to have a link to one of the more memorable episodes from TNG, one of the most amazing locations, while also showing the players the level the Voth were at.
The Voth are not that advanced. The 29th Century Federation was capable of time travel. Even the 23rd Century Federation was capable of time travel while we have not seen anything to indicate that the Voth are even capable of it. The Voth are only a few centuries more advanced than the Federation and not millions of years so it is extremely doubtful that the Voth could fix a dying star. Even if they could, their precious Doctrine would likely get in their way and prevent them from doing it. Fixing the Dyson Sphere from TNG episode would require an act of Q.