What I find ironic is that people are complaining about "Dinosaurs in Space", i.e.; the Voth.
These same people have no problem with "Space Elves" (Vulcans), "Space Dark Elves" (Romulans), "Cats in Space" (Caitians and Ferasans), "Iguanas in Space" (Gorn), "Psychic Bats in Space" (Remans) and so forth...
Okay, let's ask a simple question; if the Voth had been introduced through Next Generation or Deep Space Nine instead of Voyager, would those of you that hate the idea of the Voth still feel the same way?
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
These same people have no problem with "Space Elves" (Vulcans), "Space Dark Elves" (Romulans), "Cats in Space" (Caitians and Ferasans), "Iguanas in Space" (Gorn), "Psychic Bats in Space" (Remans) and so forth...
lol my sides
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
If you're going to support dinos with lasers that's fine but stop marring the facts. They weren't religious fanatics. Seems like you still got homework to do.
How else do you explain a group that blindly follows a specific belief except as religious fanatics. They have the closed mindedness, false sense of superiority, and belief in stuff that can't be proved that religious fanatics have. A religion doesn't require belief in a higher being for it to be a religion. Doctrine is the Voth's religion and they have proved that their civilization is filled with religious fanatics due to their relatively stagnant nature. Taking millions of years to reach a point that humans achieve in 1000 years certainly indicates stagnation. Transwarp travel was prevented for thousands of years because of Doctrine.
If you're going to support dinos with lasers that's fine but stop marring the facts. They weren't religious fanatics. Seems like you still got homework to do.
The episode was a morality play about the fight between evolution vs. creationism, and the Voth were the ones who were screaming "WE DIDN'T EVOLVE FROM NO MONKEYS!"
Okay, let's ask a simple question; if the Voth had been introduced through Next Generation or Deep Space Nine instead of Voyager, would those of you that hate the idea of the Voth still feel the same way?
Yes. Or at the very least, STO's implementation of it.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Space the Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the star ship Enterprise . Its contuining mission to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizationations, to bodily go where no one has gone before..
Space the Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the star ship Enterprise . Its contuining mission to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizationations, to bodily go where no one has gone before..
to bad some forget theses holy words and what erks me is some of theses ppl seen some say they be ok for Doctor who cross overs ok with romulan farmers rising up against the big bad RSE ok for psychotic ppl leading the RSE in to ruins............... i mean i could go on and on
Space the Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the star ship Enterprise . Its contuining mission to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizationations, to bodily go where no one has gone before..
Space its really really really large. These are the voyages of the star ship consolationprize.
Its continuing mission to explore strange new bathrooms , to seek out new life and...shoot them till they are dead , to leeroy jenkins where no one has gone before..
to bad some forget theses holy words and what erks me is some of theses ppl seen some say they be ok for Doctor who cross overs ok for romulan farmers rising up against the big bad RSE ok for psychotic ppl leading the RSE in to ruins............... i mean i could go on and on
This is why a true Star Trek MMO won't exist for decades. The whole concept of explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before requires a true AI with a supercomputer to generate individual missions for each person. There might be some areas of the game where lots of players meet together like the Dyson Sphere, but each person should have their own path. For now, I would be satisfied with missions that don't require killing anyone and onboard ship missions. There is a ton of episodes where they don't even leave the ship and I can't think of a single episode except for the battle episodes where they completed their objectives by killing a ton of aliens.
For now, I would be satisfied with missions that don't require killing anyone and onboard ship missions.
No Star Trek game has ever done this. No Star Trek game likely ever will. You could invent a literal holodeck, but it's not going to make sitting around discussing the minute of interstellar diplomacy more amusing to take part in than, say, a laser gun battle. TV shows and games are two different forms of media which demand different things.
It's not a question of technology. It's a question of inventing a way to make the gameplay fun. Perpetual spent five years sitting around trying to find a way for everyone to serve on a single ship together, and produced nothing, because they couldn't make it fun.
Cryptic spent a year putting together an MMO about fighting Klingons that's on it's way to it's 4th anniversary.
There is a ton of episodes where they don't even leave the ship
Yes, because they would have had to build new sets.
It would be really easy to make a game where you never leave your ship. Bridge Commander did it. But even there, most missions are about spaceships shooting lasers at each other.
What you're describing would be a great episode of a low-budget late 80s TV show, and also a terrible game.
No Star Trek game has ever done this. No Star Trek game likely ever will. You could invent a literal holodeck, but it's not going to make sitting around discussing the minute of interstellar diplomacy more amusing to take part in than, say, a laser gun battle. TV shows and games are two different forms of media which demand different things.
It's not a question of technology. It's a question of inventing a way to make the gameplay fun. Perpetual spent five years sitting around trying to find a way for everyone to serve on a single ship together, and produced nothing, because they couldn't make it fun.
Cryptic spent a year putting together an MMO about fighting Klingons that's on it's way to it's 4th anniversary.
Completely false.
Ever heard of Star Trek 25th anniversary? Judgement Rites? A Final Unity.
And cut the TRIBBLE, STO isn't the only Perpetual title that was ultimately vaporware.
And I highly doubt it had anything whatsoever to do with that they couldn't make it fun.
Wait do i understand you right? You are trying to disagree with me by....agreeing with me?
I think you misunderstood me iam neither a fanboy nor do i care much about "Trekiness" in the first place.
I just gave an example of simple reality, would have someone at Cryptic thought (and would the license holder have agreed) it would be better for sales to name it Simpsons Online it would have been named Simpsons Online a famous license brings more money in than anything else, however that does not mean that it stays, or has to stay true to that license gameplaywise.
The world center's arround money and companys will and have to use what they believe will get them the most money period.
How else do you explain a group that blindly follows a specific belief except as religious fanatics. They have the closed mindedness, false sense of superiority, and belief in stuff that can't be proved that religious fanatics have. A religion doesn't require belief in a higher being for it to be a religion. Doctrine is the Voth's religion and they have proved that their civilization is filled with religious fanatics due to their relatively stagnant nature. Taking millions of years to reach a point that humans achieve in 1000 years certainly indicates stagnation. Transwarp travel was prevented for thousands of years because of Doctrine.
I explain it because all I had to do is watch the episode and that's all you have to do as well. It's available on netflix or you can youtube parts of it. They were obviously technologists with a superiority complex, highly defensive but not above exhibiting humanity. Why else would they simply reassign a scientist for going against their indoctrinated understanding of their origins and freeing the entire crew/vessel without much more incident than maybe a defensive barb used to subdue Tuvok? BTW look up doctrine in the dictionary if you don't know what it means.
In this case over and over, their doctrine was over their point of origin only. They make 0 reference to religion.
Too bad this game does not have expansion packs. I know myself and many other would love to have a server deticated to the Kirk era Galaxy. With TOS ships. With the top tier being the Refit Excelsior and Refit Enterprises. Having all the awesome ships from the great Tech manual's from that time. Just take a look at all these great ships from back then: http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/federation_data.php?filter=TOS
You could make it very simple and PVP based. The Galaxy was a much smaller place back then.
Set it near the 2 Neutral zones. Romulan and Klingon. Have outposts set up along the border. Just like in "Balance of Terror" Your Job to protect the Outposts. The opponents Job? To capture them. Territory based PVP. A little like BSGO's map. 3 Faction map with 3 war zones. the FED/ROM, FED/KDF, KDF/ROM. One Starbase for each Faction. If you die in combat you re-spawn at the starbase. It would be a never ending struggle to control the Sector's bordering the neutral zones. No exotic abilities just phaser/disruptors. Torp's and tractor beams and cloaks. Just like it should be.
You log in select you ship. Stock up on Batteries and repair components. The longer you can stay in the fight the better. It's a long way back to base and if you deplete your Shields or Phaser banks your as good as dead. Select you Weapon load out and then find a team. Long range sensors report the Klingons are moving in on outpost 6 and it is completly undefended. You plot a course but you have to make 4 course corrections to get there so it will take at least 3 min before you can get reinforcements in sector. You hope the Outposts automatic defence systems hold out till you can arrive. You warp in and see a swarm of BOP's attacking the outpost. You were wise in selecting the USS Santee:
The Federation Shuttle carrier is loaded with type 6 attack craft and will provide excelent supression support against the nimble BOP's. You have drawn the attention of the attack force and the 2 Taylor class Fast Cruisers that came along are making short work of the remaining KDF ships: http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/fastcruiser_georgewashington.jpg
She warps into system and Draws the fire from the 2 KDF battle cruisers. With the combined fire from the Outpost your attack craft and the Dreadnought. ANd more rienforcements on the way the Klingons retreat. You have saved the Base for now.
This is the Star Trek I would love to play everyday.
Completely false.
Ever heard of Star Trek 25th anniversary? Judgement Rites? A Final Unity.
I only played the first. The most amusing part was killing redshirts, and there was still fighting in it.
There were a few non-combat missions in Starfleet Academy for the consoles, too. That stuck pretty close to the films. But that had plenty of shooting, too, including a part where Starfleet trains it's Academy students for warfare.
I remember there being some decent exploring in the SNES/Genesis TNG game, but that had random Romulan battles and almost every mission had you "solving problems by killing a bunch of aliens" in one way or another.
Everyone here seems to love Bridge Commander, but that was a starship combat simulator first and foremost.
So, I guess what I take away from this I take away that you think the only Star Trek games should be point-and-click adventure games with as little action as possible?
I won't hold my breath for a Wrath of Khan or Best of Both Worlds adaptation from you, then. I'll look forward to STAR TREK : THE MOTION PICTURE INTERACTIVE EXPERIENCE, though!
I'm not 100% on board with what is coming with the Voth release. I'm all for the Voth, but I'm not sure the direction they have taken with the Voth is thematic with Star Trek. From their creation of the costuming, the dino's, and other things.
I also like the idea of the Dyson's sphere, but I'm worried they can't keep it thematic with Star Trek. I wish they would have used the one the Enterprise-D found, that one, IMO, would have felt more immerse. It was an already known sphere from the show, and having it in this game would have given us the chance to explore it in a way we didn't get to see on the show, it'd show us what was down on that surface.
Season 8 is making me think that Cryptic, or PWE, wants to downgrade Star Trek Online into a "General SCIFI" type of MMO, loosely based on Star Trek. I'm getting that worrying feeling in the pit of my stomach.
I look at Season 8 so far and think "Mass Effect" or "Halo", not Star Trek. And that's not a good thing. Imagine how people on the outside, who have never played the game before, are looking at it.
Plus, there are so many unfinished things in STO, and parts of the game that need a big overhaul first, before introducing a completely new thing like this into the game that was only seen in one episode of Voyager, and a sphere that is completely made up and never seen in the show.
I would like the Star Trek to come back to Star Trek Online please.
Thanks,
A Loyal Lifetime Fan since Open Beta
Ancient Greece
Ancient Rome
TRIBBLE Germany
30's Chicago
Eden
Just some of the places that appeared in Star Trek TOS. Not so sure you take that into account.....
Don't forget "Post-Apocalyptic 'Cold War' World", the one from TOS "The Omega Glory".
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
Don't forget "Post-Apocalyptic 'Cold War' World", the one from TOS "The Omega Glory".
Funny, isn't it?
People can accept planets thousands of light years from Earth developing a Roman Empire, a Western vs. Eastern Communist War (complete with an identical US flag, US Constitution, and Pledge of Allegiance).
People can accept the god Apollo, and Hellenized psycho aliens forcing Kirk to be horse.
People can accept "The Enemy Below" in space (complete with "be silent or they may detect us").
People can accept space hippies hijacking the flagship of the Federation.
People can accept the logic of Federation observer using TRIBBLE Germany to bring about economic stability, despite all the baggage that come along with that.
People can accept an ENTIRE civilization adopting 1930s Chicago mob history and somehow believe it to be an effective way of running society.
But T-Rex with lasers crosses the line!!!
:rolleyes:
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Or the exact duplicate of Earth right down to land-masses, except in trying to cure fatal diseases, they created a new virus that killed all the adults and made children immortal...
Like I said earlier; no one complains that, in TOS, Kirk fought a giant "Iguana in Space" barehanded until he somehow managed to create gunpowder and use it to win the fight...
But fight "Dinosaurs in Space" on equal terms, lasers to lasers and everyone gets up in arms...
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
Or the exact duplicate of Earth right down to land-masses, except in trying to cure fatal diseases, they created a new virus that killed all the adults and made children immortal...
Like I said earlier; no one complains that, in TOS, Kirk fought a giant "Iguana in Space" barehanded until he somehow managed to create gunpowder and use it to win the fight...
But fight "Dinosaurs in Space" on equal terms, lasers to lasers and everyone gets up in arms...
To add to that:
I watched Menage a Troi on BBC America yesterday, taking note on how Picard got Lawaxana back. I joked to others watching that Kirk would have personally led a boarding party, punched the Ferengi in the nose, personally thrown him in the brig, then have sex with Lawaxana.
I'm not saying what Picard did was wrong, and I liked that he successfully bluffed the Ferengi. But, there were a few episodes where Kirk practically did the things I just joked about, but that is somehow "Star Trek."
"Kirk having sex with random women, and probably having multiple illegitimate children: Star Trek"
"T-Rex with laser: Not Star Trek and an affront to all that is holy!!"
Orion "animal women" and scantily dressed women on an entrie episode is fine, put a 1 second shot of Alice Eve in her undies is too far!!!
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
I explain it because all I had to do is watch the episode and that's all you have to do as well. It's available on netflix or you can youtube parts of it. They were obviously technologists with a superiority complex, highly defensive but not above exhibiting humanity. Why else would they simply reassign a scientist for going against their indoctrinated understanding of their origins and freeing the entire crew/vessel without much more incident than maybe a defensive barb used to subdue Tuvok? BTW look up doctrine in the dictionary if you don't know what it means.
In this case over and over, their doctrine was over their point of origin only. They make 0 reference to religion.
You must have missed it, but religion doesn't have to be about belief in a higher being. Doctrine is not just about their point of origin. Doctrine prevented Transwarp until some unorthodox Voth decided to prove them wrong. Essentially, Doctrine is what the Voth are supposed to believe and how they are supposed to act. Doctrine encompasses every part of their life so Doctrine is their religion. The religious fanatic part comes from the Voth Minister is not willing to accept irrefutable evidence that they came from Earth which goes against their religion.
As far as freeing Voyager, destroying them would leave proof while letting them go would just have some Voth remark on an alien ship that visited for about a day and then left. As long as Voyager is heading towards Earth and Earth is thousands of light years away, then proof that their Doctrine is wrong is out of the reach of Voth citizens that believe in the Distant Origin theory.
The episode was a morality play about the fight between evolution vs. creationism, and the Voth were the ones who were screaming "WE DIDN'T EVOLVE FROM NO MONKEYS!"
I think that's a bit too narrow an interpretation. It was more about the conflict between dogma and evidence. Dogma inevitably creeps in when people write down "this is the way things are" in a book and expects others to follow it. Just look at the modern scientific community. yech.... you don't need religion to have dogma.
Completely false.
Ever heard of Star Trek 25th anniversary? Judgement Rites? A Final Unity.
And cut the TRIBBLE, STO isn't the only Perpetual title that was ultimately vaporware.
And I highly doubt it had anything whatsoever to do with that they couldn't make it fun.
I think that's a bit too narrow an interpretation. It was more about the conflict between dogma and evidence. Dogma inevitably creeps in when people write down "this is the way things are" in a book and expects others to follow it. Just look at the modern scientific community. yech.... you don't need religion to have dogma.Ever play Birth of the Federation?
Agreed. The whole episode reminded me of Galileo. Unfortunately, it never stopped, and a lot of people are still doing exactly the same. Evolution vs creationism comes to mind.
Religion is still the number one for dogma, but it's not limited to religion.
It is the constant delusion of Star Trek fans to project their own fantastical version of what the shows were about vs what they actually were: largely poorly written and low budget political and morality plays with a few gems here and there, and it couldn't even get it's own 'canon' if you could call it that, together. It was full of blank spaces and had tons of plot holes.
Dinos with fricken lasers on their heads? Who gives a TRIBBLE when you have Species 8472 nuking planets with death star laser beams and the Rock as Tsunkatse champion. How about "Spock's Brain?" "Threshold?" "Let that be your last battlefield?" "The way to Eden?" "Miri?""Shades of Grey?"
Yes, with such an amazing storyline that we have witnessed surely dinos with lasers is a step down... get outta here... stop being wankers, Star Trek was a pretty bad show overall, discount the nostalgia factor and for every "The Inner Light" you had a season of garbage episodes. DS9 was good thanks to the efforts of Michael Dorn and Avery Brooks.
Agreed. The whole episode reminded me of Galileo. Unfortunately, it never stopped, and a lot of people are still doing exactly the same. Evolution vs creationism comes to mind.
Religion is still the number one for dogma, but it's not limited to religion.
Galileo is an apt comparison. But it'd be a bit too shallow to stop there.
The current silliness with Quantum "uncertainty" comes to mind...
You must have missed it, but religion doesn't have to be about belief in a higher being. Doctrine is not just about their point of origin. Doctrine prevented Transwarp until some unorthodox Voth decided to prove them wrong. Essentially, Doctrine is what the Voth are supposed to believe and how they are supposed to act. Doctrine encompasses every part of their life so Doctrine is their religion. The religious fanatic part comes from the Voth Minister is not willing to accept irrefutable evidence that they came from Earth which goes against their religion.
As far as freeing Voyager, destroying them would leave proof while letting them go would just have some Voth remark on an alien ship that visited for about a day and then left. As long as Voyager is heading towards Earth and Earth is thousands of light years away, then proof that their Doctrine is wrong is out of the reach of Voth citizens that believe in the Distant Origin theory.
Again, 0 reference to any religious structure so until you stop missing that, you don't understand the voth.
Actually, of the two known children Kirk had, only one was illegitimate and that was because Carol Marcus never even told him she was pregnant, if I remember correctly - 'Kirok' and Miramanee were married when she and their child were killed.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
Actually, of the two known children Kirk had, only one was illegitimate and that was because Carol Marcus never even told him she was pregnant, if I remember correctly - 'Kirok' and Miramanee were married when she and their child were killed.
The key word being "known."
Quite plausible Kirk has some unknown Kirklings running around.
Again, 0 reference to any religious structure so until you stop missing that, you don't understand the voth.
At this point, you are arguing semantics and, quite frankly, you are the only one in this thread that can't see the religious and creationist dogma undertones of the episode.
Which brings up another hypocrisy of the "This is not Trek" Crusaders:
"Trek makes you think, but I need this issue spelt out for me."
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Comments
These same people have no problem with "Space Elves" (Vulcans), "Space Dark Elves" (Romulans), "Cats in Space" (Caitians and Ferasans), "Iguanas in Space" (Gorn), "Psychic Bats in Space" (Remans) and so forth...
Okay, let's ask a simple question; if the Voth had been introduced through Next Generation or Deep Space Nine instead of Voyager, would those of you that hate the idea of the Voth still feel the same way?
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
lol my sides
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
How else do you explain a group that blindly follows a specific belief except as religious fanatics. They have the closed mindedness, false sense of superiority, and belief in stuff that can't be proved that religious fanatics have. A religion doesn't require belief in a higher being for it to be a religion. Doctrine is the Voth's religion and they have proved that their civilization is filled with religious fanatics due to their relatively stagnant nature. Taking millions of years to reach a point that humans achieve in 1000 years certainly indicates stagnation. Transwarp travel was prevented for thousands of years because of Doctrine.
The episode was a morality play about the fight between evolution vs. creationism, and the Voth were the ones who were screaming "WE DIDN'T EVOLVE FROM NO MONKEYS!"
Yes. Or at the very least, STO's implementation of it.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
to bad some forget theses holy words
system Lord Baal is dead
Space its really really really large. These are the voyages of the star ship consolationprize.
Its continuing mission to explore strange new bathrooms , to seek out new life and...shoot them till they are dead , to leeroy jenkins where no one has gone before..
This is why a true Star Trek MMO won't exist for decades. The whole concept of explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before requires a true AI with a supercomputer to generate individual missions for each person. There might be some areas of the game where lots of players meet together like the Dyson Sphere, but each person should have their own path. For now, I would be satisfied with missions that don't require killing anyone and onboard ship missions. There is a ton of episodes where they don't even leave the ship and I can't think of a single episode except for the battle episodes where they completed their objectives by killing a ton of aliens.
No Star Trek game has ever done this. No Star Trek game likely ever will. You could invent a literal holodeck, but it's not going to make sitting around discussing the minute of interstellar diplomacy more amusing to take part in than, say, a laser gun battle. TV shows and games are two different forms of media which demand different things.
It's not a question of technology. It's a question of inventing a way to make the gameplay fun. Perpetual spent five years sitting around trying to find a way for everyone to serve on a single ship together, and produced nothing, because they couldn't make it fun.
Cryptic spent a year putting together an MMO about fighting Klingons that's on it's way to it's 4th anniversary.
Yes, because they would have had to build new sets.
It would be really easy to make a game where you never leave your ship. Bridge Commander did it. But even there, most missions are about spaceships shooting lasers at each other.
What you're describing would be a great episode of a low-budget late 80s TV show, and also a terrible game.
Completely false.
Ever heard of Star Trek 25th anniversary? Judgement Rites? A Final Unity.
And cut the TRIBBLE, STO isn't the only Perpetual title that was ultimately vaporware.
And I highly doubt it had anything whatsoever to do with that they couldn't make it fun.
Wait do i understand you right? You are trying to disagree with me by....agreeing with me?
I think you misunderstood me iam neither a fanboy nor do i care much about "Trekiness" in the first place.
I just gave an example of simple reality, would have someone at Cryptic thought (and would the license holder have agreed) it would be better for sales to name it Simpsons Online it would have been named Simpsons Online a famous license brings more money in than anything else, however that does not mean that it stays, or has to stay true to that license gameplaywise.
The world center's arround money and companys will and have to use what they believe will get them the most money period.
I explain it because all I had to do is watch the episode and that's all you have to do as well. It's available on netflix or you can youtube parts of it. They were obviously technologists with a superiority complex, highly defensive but not above exhibiting humanity. Why else would they simply reassign a scientist for going against their indoctrinated understanding of their origins and freeing the entire crew/vessel without much more incident than maybe a defensive barb used to subdue Tuvok? BTW look up doctrine in the dictionary if you don't know what it means.
In this case over and over, their doctrine was over their point of origin only. They make 0 reference to religion.
http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/federation_data.php?filter=TOS
You could make it very simple and PVP based. The Galaxy was a much smaller place back then.
Set it near the 2 Neutral zones. Romulan and Klingon. Have outposts set up along the border. Just like in "Balance of Terror" Your Job to protect the Outposts. The opponents Job? To capture them. Territory based PVP. A little like BSGO's map. 3 Faction map with 3 war zones. the FED/ROM, FED/KDF, KDF/ROM. One Starbase for each Faction. If you die in combat you re-spawn at the starbase. It would be a never ending struggle to control the Sector's bordering the neutral zones. No exotic abilities just phaser/disruptors. Torp's and tractor beams and cloaks. Just like it should be.
You log in select you ship. Stock up on Batteries and repair components. The longer you can stay in the fight the better. It's a long way back to base and if you deplete your Shields or Phaser banks your as good as dead. Select you Weapon load out and then find a team. Long range sensors report the Klingons are moving in on outpost 6 and it is completly undefended. You plot a course but you have to make 4 course corrections to get there so it will take at least 3 min before you can get reinforcements in sector. You hope the Outposts automatic defence systems hold out till you can arrive. You warp in and see a swarm of BOP's attacking the outpost. You were wise in selecting the USS Santee:
http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/shuttlecarrier_santee.jpg
The Federation Shuttle carrier is loaded with type 6 attack craft and will provide excelent supression support against the nimble BOP's. You have drawn the attention of the attack force and the 2 Taylor class Fast Cruisers that came along are making short work of the remaining KDF ships: http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/fastcruiser_georgewashington.jpg
Then suddenly 3 Klingon Battle cruisers de-cloak and destroy your Escorts. You send out an immeadate distress call over subspace. You are lucky the Dreadnought USS Manta Ray is only one system away: http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/dreadnaught_mantaray.jpg
She warps into system and Draws the fire from the 2 KDF battle cruisers. With the combined fire from the Outpost your attack craft and the Dreadnought. ANd more rienforcements on the way the Klingons retreat. You have saved the Base for now.
This is the Star Trek I would love to play everyday.
Who said I was disagreeing? Just because it's an Internet forum doesn't mean that everything's an argument.
I only played the first. The most amusing part was killing redshirts, and there was still fighting in it.
There were a few non-combat missions in Starfleet Academy for the consoles, too. That stuck pretty close to the films. But that had plenty of shooting, too, including a part where Starfleet trains it's Academy students for warfare.
I remember there being some decent exploring in the SNES/Genesis TNG game, but that had random Romulan battles and almost every mission had you "solving problems by killing a bunch of aliens" in one way or another.
Everyone here seems to love Bridge Commander, but that was a starship combat simulator first and foremost.
So, I guess what I take away from this I take away that you think the only Star Trek games should be point-and-click adventure games with as little action as possible?
I won't hold my breath for a Wrath of Khan or Best of Both Worlds adaptation from you, then. I'll look forward to STAR TREK : THE MOTION PICTURE INTERACTIVE EXPERIENCE, though!
Ancient Greece
Ancient Rome
TRIBBLE Germany
30's Chicago
Eden
Just some of the places that appeared in Star Trek TOS. Not so sure you take that into account.....
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
Funny, isn't it?
People can accept planets thousands of light years from Earth developing a Roman Empire, a Western vs. Eastern Communist War (complete with an identical US flag, US Constitution, and Pledge of Allegiance).
People can accept the god Apollo, and Hellenized psycho aliens forcing Kirk to be horse.
People can accept "The Enemy Below" in space (complete with "be silent or they may detect us").
People can accept space hippies hijacking the flagship of the Federation.
People can accept the logic of Federation observer using TRIBBLE Germany to bring about economic stability, despite all the baggage that come along with that.
People can accept an ENTIRE civilization adopting 1930s Chicago mob history and somehow believe it to be an effective way of running society.
But T-Rex with lasers crosses the line!!!
:rolleyes:
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Like I said earlier; no one complains that, in TOS, Kirk fought a giant "Iguana in Space" barehanded until he somehow managed to create gunpowder and use it to win the fight...
But fight "Dinosaurs in Space" on equal terms, lasers to lasers and everyone gets up in arms...
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
To add to that:
I watched Menage a Troi on BBC America yesterday, taking note on how Picard got Lawaxana back. I joked to others watching that Kirk would have personally led a boarding party, punched the Ferengi in the nose, personally thrown him in the brig, then have sex with Lawaxana.
I'm not saying what Picard did was wrong, and I liked that he successfully bluffed the Ferengi. But, there were a few episodes where Kirk practically did the things I just joked about, but that is somehow "Star Trek."
"Kirk having sex with random women, and probably having multiple illegitimate children: Star Trek"
"T-Rex with laser: Not Star Trek and an affront to all that is holy!!"
Orion "animal women" and scantily dressed women on an entrie episode is fine, put a 1 second shot of Alice Eve in her undies is too far!!!
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You must have missed it, but religion doesn't have to be about belief in a higher being. Doctrine is not just about their point of origin. Doctrine prevented Transwarp until some unorthodox Voth decided to prove them wrong. Essentially, Doctrine is what the Voth are supposed to believe and how they are supposed to act. Doctrine encompasses every part of their life so Doctrine is their religion. The religious fanatic part comes from the Voth Minister is not willing to accept irrefutable evidence that they came from Earth which goes against their religion.
As far as freeing Voyager, destroying them would leave proof while letting them go would just have some Voth remark on an alien ship that visited for about a day and then left. As long as Voyager is heading towards Earth and Earth is thousands of light years away, then proof that their Doctrine is wrong is out of the reach of Voth citizens that believe in the Distant Origin theory.
My character Tsin'xing
Religion is still the number one for dogma, but it's not limited to religion.
We took sticks and beat on trees. Maybe threw rocks at eachother.
Kids these day... sheesh.
Dinos with fricken lasers on their heads? Who gives a TRIBBLE when you have Species 8472 nuking planets with death star laser beams and the Rock as Tsunkatse champion. How about "Spock's Brain?" "Threshold?" "Let that be your last battlefield?" "The way to Eden?" "Miri?""Shades of Grey?"
Yes, with such an amazing storyline that we have witnessed surely dinos with lasers is a step down... get outta here... stop being wankers, Star Trek was a pretty bad show overall, discount the nostalgia factor and for every "The Inner Light" you had a season of garbage episodes. DS9 was good thanks to the efforts of Michael Dorn and Avery Brooks.
The current silliness with Quantum "uncertainty" comes to mind...
My character Tsin'xing
Again, 0 reference to any religious structure so until you stop missing that, you don't understand the voth.
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
The key word being "known."
Quite plausible Kirk has some unknown Kirklings running around.
At this point, you are arguing semantics and, quite frankly, you are the only one in this thread that can't see the religious and creationist dogma undertones of the episode.
Which brings up another hypocrisy of the "This is not Trek" Crusaders:
"Trek makes you think, but I need this issue spelt out for me."
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