Of all the theories offered, this one's the least likely.
1. There spheres were not Dyson structures, they were space stations that happened to be spherical. They weren't particularly large, even. The shape connection is no more relevant than the fact that Federation and Cardassian space stations are both round and radially symmetric.
2. Those spheres were designed to alter the space around them to be habitable to the Sphere Builders. However, this sphere is clearly designed to create an M-class environment on its interior - complete with lush green continents, water oceans, and a likely substantial population based on the density of the cities and how immense some of the structures are. All these things aren't natural parts of the sphere, but things intentionally created within it after its completion, all effort that for the Sphere Builders would have been pointless, unnecessary, and ultimately wasted when the environment is converted to their native requirements.
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
Having watched a Video of this event on YouTube (Tribble Play) you're not very likely to get much damage done with energy weapons.
If I remember right, the ship has some ability that makes beams/cannons less effective. You'll be wanting to rely on your torpedoes.
good for me, I only run plasma torpedo boats, and to great effect, didn't know about any video though. That thing and the environment together looks real fun!
@ Tacofangs, (You are probably not allowed to answer any of these questions )
Just a few things I am curious about:
If you were in charge of naming it [the thing being discussed - from the images in blog#2], would you call it a Dyson Sphere or a Dyson Shell? (And really there is only one correct answer!).
Well, if I'm in charge, I'd call it a Taco Shell.
Yes, technically it's a Dyson Shell, but common nomenclature has dictated that a Dyson Sphere is what it is, and that's what we'll continue to call it. IMO, Dyson messed up his naming anyway, since his "Sphere" is just an array of satellites, and his "Shell" is a . . . sphere. . .
The big grooves you see, I do not think you would be able to see them on something that big unless they were bloody enormous (bigger than a planet!). If it was up to you,would you make it completely smooth?
Also, why can we see it? It should be completely black,the sun being inside it,should make it difficult to see. (You know - no light / little light and all).
A direct Dev response. That's got to be a first for me, even if it does come with attitude.
Whilst the concept and implementation is there, tell me, if you had the power and resources to create such an object, why would you even bother with a night time? What's wrong with an eternal, tropical paradise. You wouldn't need night. We have it cause of the way our planet orbits the sun, but in such the object that is a Dyson Sphere, it's a design chosen for implementation by the creators. Why bother?
If I had the power and resources to build such a thing, I wouldn't. It's a waste. You'd have to disassemble thousands of perfectly good solar systems just to get the resources to build this.
If I were forced to build such a thing, I would likely build a Ring World instead, as it is much simpler to maintain from a habitability standpoint. I won't go into it again here, I've been through all of that before in other threads.
If you're saying I'm forced to build a Dyson *Shell*, I would put in day/night cycles because they are biologically necessary to my species. Besides, eternal daylight leaves the whole world cooked. Night serves many purposes. (go ask any Tidally Locked Planets.)
If I had the power and resources to build such a thing, I wouldn't. It's a waste. You'd have to disassemble thousands of perfectly good solar systems just to get the resources to build this.
Just start with a binary or trinary and disassemble the extra stars.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
If I were forced to build such a thing, I would likely build a Ring World instead, as it is much simpler to maintain from a habitability standpoint. I won't go into it again here, I've been through all of that before in other threads.
If you're saying I'm forced to build a Dyson *Shell*, I would put in day/night cycles because they are biologically necessary to my species. Besides, eternal daylight leaves the whole world cooked. Night serves many purposes. (go ask any Tidally Locked Planets.)
Ahhh, Larry Niven.
Ring World, and its sequals, while dealing with a ribbon rather than a sphere gives us a bunch of solutions for most, if not all, of the problems identified in this and other threads.
Day/night cycles? Really not a problem and, in fact, can be part of the systems power supply.
These systems also can go wrong......with interesting, dramatic and catastrophic consquences. All of which can make narrative so much fun.
I think that one of the problems with the Dyson Sphere is that the scale simply confuses.
If we assume 1AU as a radius, the internal surface area is ridiculously big. Ridonculous, in fact.
You could have whole civisations/species rise and fall without people just a few degrees round the curve never hearing about them.
Now, clearly we're not going to be able to explore the whole sphere, because if we could that would be a whole new game......several whole new games worth of content.
I think making Changlings as awesome as they should be, would be difficult and game breaking.
I'd have thought the Founders easy enough? There's an episode (one of yours) where we've got to fight Laas, and he morphs to a liquid. All we'd need is an option to 'morph too' and then we'd become that object. Granted morphing into a chair or tree wouldn't do us much use gameplay wise. :P
Besides, the Founders (and the Dominion) have been done to death in the show/series. I agree with your choice of the Xindi (though Avians?). You guys would no doubt have a field day working them into the game.
If I were forced to build such a thing, I would likely build a Ring World instead, as it is much simpler to maintain from a habitability standpoint. I won't go into it again here, I've been through all of that before in other threads.
Elysium is a ring, but it's not encircling a star, and is no where near the scale we're talking about.
I figured we were still only talking about 1 AU constructions.
Elysium is a ring, but it's not encircling a star, and is no where near the scale we're talking about. I figured we were still only talking about 1 AU constructions.
I was thinking more practical.
If you had an Elysium Ring orbiting a Star (with satellites for day and night) that would be more practical for you (all theoretical of course, since none of us will ever have enough money to construct such an object).
Isn't Larry Niven's Ring World also supposed to be 1AU, or earth's orbit in size, circling/orbiting it's star?
Speaking of Ring Worlds and Dyson Spheres, one offline game I have, Space Empires 5 has both of these in it. Takes considerable research to even get close to building one of them however.
If you had an Elysium Ring orbiting a Star (with satellites for day and night) that would be more practical for you (all theoretical of course, since none of us will ever have enough money to construct such an object).
It's not actually likely to cost that much money - it seems to me that any civilization that builds stellar-scale structure would use some sort of Von Neumann machine.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
It's not actually likely to cost that much money - it seems to me that any civilization that builds stellar-scale structure would use some sort of Von Neumann machine.
Regardless of what construction means they use, such a civilization would almost have to have a non-capitalist economy. If you're still counting literally any unit of exchange, be it energy, money, or a vague concept like value to society, the sphere would be a huge pit for hundreds or thousands of years during construction, and once it started to produce a product (space and energy, mainly), it would do so in such abundance that it would almost completely devaluate its own product.
Energy is really the only count that matters: You need it in an immense, unusuable abundance to the point that you might as well build the sphere just to put it to some use, and once you're done you're just going to have even more of an abundance (hence my "spinning rims" comment about a day/night system - at that point so much energy is going to waste anyway, so you might as well just keep going).
Regardless of what construction means they use, such a civilization would almost have to have a non-capitalist economy. If you're still counting literally any unit of exchange, be it energy, money, or a vague concept like value to society, the sphere would be a huge pit for hundreds or thousands of years during construction, and once it started to produce a product (space and energy, mainly), it would do so in such abundance that it would almost completely devaluate its own product.
Energy is really the only count that matters: You need it in an immense, unusuable abundance to the point that you might as well build the sphere just to put it to some use, and once you're done you're just going to have even more of an abundance (hence my "spinning rims" comment about a day/night system - at that point so much energy is going to waste anyway, so you might as well just keep going).
Apparently you're unaware of what a Von Neumann machine is...
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
It's not actually likely to cost that much money - it seems to me that any civilization that builds stellar-scale structure would use some sort of Von Neumann machine.
They'd also build them away from home.
You'd need somewhere to live while the Von Neumann machines do their thing......
And the idea that a society capable of building objects 2 AU across would also think in terms of money is ludicrous.
I'm fully aware of what it is. Enough so that I know that a Von Neumann Machine is a computer architecture, not the Universal Constructor proposed by the same man.
UC's don't reduce the energy, mass, or time requirements of a project (in the limit they can reduce the time requirements, but at immense increases in both mass and energy - their intent isn't efficiency but intentional inefficiency in every step in exchange for greatly reduced energy cost of a single step), they increase it.
I'm fully aware of what it is. Enough so that I know that a Von Neumann Machine is a computer architecture, not the Universal Constructor proposed by the same man.
UC's don't reduce the energy, mass, or time requirements of a project (in the limit they can reduce the time requirements, but at immense increases in both mass and energy), they increase it.
....er.......well sure, if you deploy them where you live.
However, you'd want to deploy them at another star. And you'd only need to send a few.
Compare with the transport costs of any other method.
It's not the construction costs they help you with, it's the getting there.
Woooo
The only reason to build a Sphere is art. Once you have the ability to build this structure you've outmoded the need to build this structure. Therefore, bask in the majesty of the artist and hope some interesting patrons have decided to stick around.
Or you know, fight anything else that shows up.
The way to do it would be to go from the Dyson Sphere system to a Dyson Shell system. Make one section of the sphere, then another, then another until the Dyson Sphere is completed. Each with energy collection capabilities and livable areas. So each section would be an independent space station in design at the start. There is absolutely no reason to have to wait for the whole Dyson Shell to be created. As soon as the first one is setup, then there will be immediate benefit. There is also the added benefit that any damage to one part of the Dyson Shell would not affect another part. I am only use the correct Dyson Sphere and Dyson Shell terms to explain the concept. This system can be used to create a ring or sphere or whatever design a race would want. I agree with Taco that Dyson Sphere is more appropriate for what is called a Dyson Shell.
Isn't Larry Niven's Ring World also supposed to be 1AU, or earth's orbit in size, circling/orbiting it's star?
Speaking of Ring Worlds and Dyson Spheres, one offline game I have, Space Empires 5 has both of these in it. Takes considerable research to even get close to building one of them however.
I LOVE that game!
But yeah, they're pretty much completely impractical to build. They're great to have, but getting them is a problem. Though some modders have tinkered with sidestepping this and making natural (but rare) rings or spheres. Have you been to the site?
Comments
some one or something has a grand design for us all :P
system Lord Baal is dead
Of all the theories offered, this one's the least likely.
1. There spheres were not Dyson structures, they were space stations that happened to be spherical. They weren't particularly large, even. The shape connection is no more relevant than the fact that Federation and Cardassian space stations are both round and radially symmetric.
2. Those spheres were designed to alter the space around them to be habitable to the Sphere Builders. However, this sphere is clearly designed to create an M-class environment on its interior - complete with lush green continents, water oceans, and a likely substantial population based on the density of the cities and how immense some of the structures are. All these things aren't natural parts of the sphere, but things intentionally created within it after its completion, all effort that for the Sphere Builders would have been pointless, unnecessary, and ultimately wasted when the environment is converted to their native requirements.
Great and all, but again, completely random. I'd rather have something that was at least semi-related to the current plot.
Sadly the execution is consistently mishandled.... Kind of like electrocuting someone without the wet, conductive sponge... :cool:
Someone needs to play the Feature Episode.....
If I remember right, the ship has some ability that makes beams/cannons less effective. You'll be wanting to rely on your torpedoes.
good for me, I only run plasma torpedo boats, and to great effect, didn't know about any video though. That thing and the environment together looks real fun!
That's the battleship - it disables its shields and turns itself into a huge aceton assimilator temporarily.
Still, kitsunesnout is referring to the Omega torpedo, which should work pretty well against it.
Well, if I'm in charge, I'd call it a Taco Shell.
Yes, technically it's a Dyson Shell, but common nomenclature has dictated that a Dyson Sphere is what it is, and that's what we'll continue to call it. IMO, Dyson messed up his naming anyway, since his "Sphere" is just an array of satellites, and his "Shell" is a . . . sphere. . .
See here.
I think making Changlings as awesome as they should be, would be difficult and game breaking. So I'll go with Xindi Avians.
If I had the power and resources to build such a thing, I wouldn't. It's a waste. You'd have to disassemble thousands of perfectly good solar systems just to get the resources to build this.
If I were forced to build such a thing, I would likely build a Ring World instead, as it is much simpler to maintain from a habitability standpoint. I won't go into it again here, I've been through all of that before in other threads.
If you're saying I'm forced to build a Dyson *Shell*, I would put in day/night cycles because they are biologically necessary to my species. Besides, eternal daylight leaves the whole world cooked. Night serves many purposes. (go ask any Tidally Locked Planets.)
Just start with a binary or trinary and disassemble the extra stars.
Ahhh, Larry Niven.
Ring World, and its sequals, while dealing with a ribbon rather than a sphere gives us a bunch of solutions for most, if not all, of the problems identified in this and other threads.
Day/night cycles? Really not a problem and, in fact, can be part of the systems power supply.
These systems also can go wrong......with interesting, dramatic and catastrophic consquences. All of which can make narrative so much fun.
I think that one of the problems with the Dyson Sphere is that the scale simply confuses.
If we assume 1AU as a radius, the internal surface area is ridiculously big. Ridonculous, in fact.
You could have whole civisations/species rise and fall without people just a few degrees round the curve never hearing about them.
Now, clearly we're not going to be able to explore the whole sphere, because if we could that would be a whole new game......several whole new games worth of content.
However, its all good to me.
Besides, the Founders (and the Dominion) have been done to death in the show/series. I agree with your choice of the Xindi (though Avians?). You guys would no doubt have a field day working them into the game.
Elysium? ...or something similar.
that thing is a halo ring :P
system Lord Baal is dead
Maybe...*gasp* something like Larry Nivens Ringworld?
I figured we were still only talking about 1 AU constructions.
If you had an Elysium Ring orbiting a Star (with satellites for day and night) that would be more practical for you (all theoretical of course, since none of us will ever have enough money to construct such an object).
Speaking of Ring Worlds and Dyson Spheres, one offline game I have, Space Empires 5 has both of these in it. Takes considerable research to even get close to building one of them however.
It's not actually likely to cost that much money - it seems to me that any civilization that builds stellar-scale structure would use some sort of Von Neumann machine.
Regardless of what construction means they use, such a civilization would almost have to have a non-capitalist economy. If you're still counting literally any unit of exchange, be it energy, money, or a vague concept like value to society, the sphere would be a huge pit for hundreds or thousands of years during construction, and once it started to produce a product (space and energy, mainly), it would do so in such abundance that it would almost completely devaluate its own product.
Energy is really the only count that matters: You need it in an immense, unusuable abundance to the point that you might as well build the sphere just to put it to some use, and once you're done you're just going to have even more of an abundance (hence my "spinning rims" comment about a day/night system - at that point so much energy is going to waste anyway, so you might as well just keep going).
Apparently you're unaware of what a Von Neumann machine is...
Raptr profile
They'd also build them away from home.
You'd need somewhere to live while the Von Neumann machines do their thing......
And the idea that a society capable of building objects 2 AU across would also think in terms of money is ludicrous.
UC's don't reduce the energy, mass, or time requirements of a project (in the limit they can reduce the time requirements, but at immense increases in both mass and energy - their intent isn't efficiency but intentional inefficiency in every step in exchange for greatly reduced energy cost of a single step), they increase it.
....er.......well sure, if you deploy them where you live.
However, you'd want to deploy them at another star. And you'd only need to send a few.
Compare with the transport costs of any other method.
It's not the construction costs they help you with, it's the getting there.
The only reason to build a Sphere is art. Once you have the ability to build this structure you've outmoded the need to build this structure. Therefore, bask in the majesty of the artist and hope some interesting patrons have decided to stick around.
Or you know, fight anything else that shows up.
But yeah, they're pretty much completely impractical to build. They're great to have, but getting them is a problem. Though some modders have tinkered with sidestepping this and making natural (but rare) rings or spheres. Have you been to the site?
My character Tsin'xing