Being Star Trek it's more likely that there's a series of facilities along the interior of the hull or satellites in stationary positions that generate an energy field that filters the light to simulates darkness, and the facilities/satellites have an automated pattern on the strength of the filter to generate the day/night cycle.
If that's the case then the real question is if they designed it so while one part of the interior is in darkness another is in daylight OR did they just put the entire interior on day/night schedule so it's day everywhere and night everywhere at the same time.
They could have a second Focused Solar Collecting Hemisphere on the inside of the Dyson Sphere that orbits in the reverse direction to the outer sphere.
This leads to a long shadow that rolls across the outer sphere, simulating day and night, and still not wasting one bit of sunlight as the Focused Solar Collector is working at peak efficiency all the time.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Really? Because it looks like the bottom is, because the haze of the atmosphere looks like it's arching over rather than curving with the concave nature one expects from the interior of the shell.
The red line drawn straight across reveals that the top of the atmosphere bulges up, as the edges do not touch it. The other lines highlight how the atmosphere is actually curving. It's convex, not concave.
I think this is more due to the slight fisheye effect at the edges of the screen than the curvature of the actual ground.
It is really doubtful that the entire Dyson Sphere is filled with air. Chances are that there is a barrier 1 to 20 km above the surface that holds in the air. This barrier could be modified to generate a night display. Having a huge piece of metal to create a night sky is too much effort to deal with and can cause immense damage if it fails.
You don't need a barrier. Whatever generates the sphere's surface gravity (whether it's artificial like a starship's or rotational for the sake of efficiency), it will also hold the atmosphere as well. If it is rotational, you'll have the minor problem of decreasing density the farther you are from the equator and some leaking off into the open interior space at the poles where there is no rotational gravity.
Fully artificial gravity would solve that problem, and in Star Trek the energy demands of artificial gravity seem to be trivial - ships with main and backup power offline and their reactors shut down still have functioning gravity, in a couple cases we see this even after they've been in that state for years.
Really? Because it looks like the bottom is, because the haze of the atmosphere looks like it's arching over rather than curving with the concave nature one expects from the interior of the shell.
The red line drawn straight across reveals that the top of the atmosphere bulges up, as the edges do not touch it. The other lines highlight how the atmosphere is actually curving. It's convex, not concave.
Really? Because it looks like the bottom is, because the haze of the atmosphere looks like it's arching over rather than curving with the concave nature one expects from the interior of the shell.
The red line drawn straight across reveals that the top of the atmosphere bulges up, as the edges do not touch it. The other lines highlight how the atmosphere is actually curving. It's convex, not concave.
That is all within the camera. The atmosphere is a fresnel material on the interior of a sphere. It is absolutely concave. It pinches down where your angle of viewing is at it's lowest, creating a ring around you.
It's the same reason that, on a clear blue ocean, you would have a sense that the horizon curves. It doesn't, it is a flat circle all the way around you. You are equidistant to every point on the horizon. You have a sense of it's curviture due to your viewing angle at that moment. If you turn your head 90 degrees, it looks the same. But the part that you see has "high" now, was "low" a moment ago.
Being Star Trek it's more likely that there's a series of facilities along the interior of the hull or satellites in stationary positions that generate an energy field that filters the light to simulates darkness, and the facilities/satellites have an automated pattern on the strength of the filter to generate the day/night cycle.
If that's the case then the real question is if they designed it so while one part of the interior is in darkness another is in daylight OR did they just put the entire interior on day/night schedule so it's day everywhere and night everywhere at the same time.
I doubt we're going to get into that much detail in game. But, essentially creating time zones, where part of the sphere is in the dark and part isn't, is actually pretty problematic. While you would be shielded from the sun, the entire opposite side of the sphere would be lit, and reflecting light onto you, creating an effect that would be more akin to sitting in the shade on a bright day than proper night time.
While you would be shielded from the sun, the entire opposite side of the sphere would be lit, and reflecting light onto you, creating an effect that would be more akin to sitting in the shade on a bright day than proper night time.
However, constructing additional shielding might deal with that issue. I'm going to let the more skilled people here deal with it, but a system of sufficient complexity could in fact cause a day-night cycle.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I doubt we're going to get into that much detail in game. But, essentially creating time zones, where part of the sphere is in the dark and part isn't, is actually pretty problematic. While you would be shielded from the sun, the entire opposite side of the sphere would be lit, and reflecting light onto you, creating an effect that would be more akin to sitting in the shade on a bright day than proper night time.
Y U NO use shields to polarize the light? No need to build a physical thing, just pop a shield over the region that blocks incoming light. Poof, instant night time.
Has anyone else figured out what this whole Dyson Sphere boils down to if it involves the Voth?
Fighting Voth inside the hull of the Dyson Sphere...
We're basically fighting lizard-men deep inside the 'planet's' crust. (Never mind the fact that the 'planet' is inside out.)
Dinosaurs, not lizards. It's offensive enough to remind them that they are also from Earth.
But not quite as offensive as it's gonna be when they lose to the hairless apes. Can't wait to knock those fossils down a peg. Or meet some of the sane non-monolithic ones.
I think they need to fix that curvature. At the moment, the very bottom doesn't curve properly like the interior shell should like the background does. Instead it curves the other way like a regular planet would.
I was concerned about the visible horizon, though Tacofangs did point out the flaws. Below a certain altitude off the surface of the sphere there would be a perceivable horizon. We should all note that the interior volume of this Dyson's sphere should be substantially larger than every other single system map in the game, maybe combined. This is a stage that could be on the level of an entire solar system. Can't wait to see how it's set up.
As for the issue of day and night cycle there are a variety of solutions, though any system or hologram that blocks the interior from receiving light defeats the purpose of the Dyson's Sphere. The easiest way to do it is to simply have one subterranean buildings and neighborhoods that are simply not exposed to the sun, or to travel to the exterior surface of the Dyson's sphere for your nighttime cycle. Live on the exterior, work on the interior. Which is the most logical as from the outside of the sphere you actually get to see stars.
In the Relics episode there were lots of cool details for things like gravity, for instance the sheer mass of the thing was enough to to pull ships out of warp, like the gravity well generators on Imperial Interdictor cruisers in Star Wars. So it could have gravity interior and exterior by its sheer mass. Also of note it's made of Carbon Neutronium, making it an apparently workable version of the material the Doomsday Machine is made of. I don't know if the two spheres are going to be connected, but it's gonna be fascinating if there are two species on that technological level in the Star Trek universe.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I think this is more due to the slight fisheye effect at the edges of the screen than the curvature of the actual ground.
You don't need a barrier. Whatever generates the sphere's surface gravity (whether it's artificial like a starship's or rotational for the sake of efficiency), it will also hold the atmosphere as well. If it is rotational, you'll have the minor problem of decreasing density the farther you are from the equator and some leaking off into the open interior space at the poles where there is no rotational gravity.
Fully artificial gravity would solve that problem, and in Star Trek the energy demands of artificial gravity seem to be trivial - ships with main and backup power offline and their reactors shut down still have functioning gravity, in a couple cases we see this even after they've been in that state for years.
Yeah, I really don't think centrifugal artificial gravity would work long enough for a viable atmosphere. that approach requires you to have things moving in a certain direction at a certain speed. Air molecules move too randomly. In the case of a Dyson sphere, they'd likely get sucked into the sun. The easiest example I can think of is visualizing them bouncing around like billiard balls.
Yeah, I really don't think centrifugal artificial gravity would work long enough for a viable atmosphere. that approach requires you to have things moving in a certain direction at a certain speed. Air molecules move too randomly. In the case of a Dyson sphere, they'd likely get sucked into the sun. The easiest example I can think of is visualizing them bouncing around like billiard balls.
I just thought about the idea of the actual interior of the sphere being filled with air.
What a disaster. The stars heat would reach the surface via convection instead of radiation.
I think other than standard artificial gravity, the mass of the object would hold an atmosphere.
Or maybe force fields at a certain altitude like The Citadel.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Yeah, I really don't think centrifugal artificial gravity would work long enough for a viable atmosphere. that approach requires you to have things moving in a certain direction at a certain speed. Air molecules move too randomly. In the case of a Dyson sphere, they'd likely get sucked into the sun. The easiest example I can think of is visualizing them bouncing around like billiard balls.
Centrifugal gravity does work on gasses (this is how we isolate radioisotopes for nuclear reactors or medical uses). A better model of them would be balls bouncing around on a billards table on the back of a truck on the freeway - they're moving randomly relative to each other, but are still moving with the truck at 60 mph.
Or maybe force fields at a certain altitude like The Citadel.
Force fields would be the only effective method. Not just for holding in the atmosphere and being able to have a day/night cycle, but to protect the Dyson Sphere from solar discharges. If a race could build a Dyson Sphere, then they should be able to control their star, but things can always go wrong. After all, if a race can control a star, they could use it as a weapon on their enemies and there is no proof that everyone on a Dyson Sphere is nice, friendly, and belongs to the same nation.
Centrifugal gravity does work on gasses (this is how we isolate radioisotopes for nuclear reactors or medical uses). A better model of them would be balls bouncing around on a billards table on the back of a truck on the freeway - they're moving randomly relative to each other, but are still moving with the truck at 60 mph.
True, but every now and then they'd bounce out the top of the truck.
Force fields would be the only effective method. Not just for holding in the atmosphere and being able to have a day/night cycle, but to protect the Dyson Sphere from solar discharges. If a race could build a Dyson Sphere, then they should be able to control their star, but things can always go wrong. After all, if a race can control a star, they could use it as a weapon on their enemies and there is no proof that everyone on a Dyson Sphere is nice, friendly, and belongs to the same nation.
Actually building a Dyson's sphere is a method of controlling a star, but it's not the same level of control as a fusion reactor. You can't turn the thing off. In fact the Sphere in "Relics" was apparently abandoned because the star went into a phase where it was producing massive amounts of radiation that made the interior uninhabitable.
I still think using force fields to create a night cycle is a bad idea, the entire point of a Dyson's Sphere or shell system is to absorb the maximum amount of sunlight possible. Having a system that blocks out large portions of the light over a large area for a significant period of time runs counter to the function. A mechanical system covers this by providing a secondary absorption apparatus.
And the last point I would think that everyone inhabiting the sphere would be of the same nation or at least united. The amount of resources and work necessary to construct such an object is something that you can't do as a single homogenous nation especially if you're in conflict with others. It requires the mass of several star systems to pull off.
That said there is no reason they're nice and friendly to others, but everyone who would live in the sphere should all be on the same page. But it appears that those people are long gone.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I doubt we're going to get into that much detail in game. But, essentially creating time zones, where part of the sphere is in the dark and part isn't, is actually pretty problematic. While you would be shielded from the sun, the entire opposite side of the sphere would be lit, and reflecting light onto you, creating an effect that would be more akin to sitting in the shade on a bright day than proper night time.
That's basically the same effect as the old 'day-as-night' blue filter that they used on cameras back in the sixties and seventies so that they could film 'night' scenes during the day, isn't it?
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
I doubt we're going to get into that much detail in game. But, essentially creating time zones, where part of the sphere is in the dark and part isn't, is actually pretty problematic. While you would be shielded from the sun, the entire opposite side of the sphere would be lit, and reflecting light onto you, creating an effect that would be more akin to sitting in the shade on a bright day than proper night time.
It would be really neat if the fleet holding version of the spire (if there is such a thing :P ) has a day-night cycle like Bajor or Risa. That'd be really cool, I think.
True, but every now and then they'd bounce out the top of the truck.
You get this with normal gravity, as well - all the planets in our solar system experience some degree of atmospheric loss. A dyson sphere does have a slight advantage over a planet in this respect, though - the solar wind will blow at least some lost atmosphere back into the sphere, rather than away from the planet.
You get this with normal gravity, as well - all the planets in our solar system experience some degree of atmospheric loss. A dyson sphere does have a slight advantage over a planet in this respect, though - the solar wind will blow at least some lost atmosphere back into the sphere, rather than away from the planet.
It's a matter of degree. AFAIK the centrifugal approach would be a lot faster.
That is all within the camera. The atmosphere is a fresnel material on the interior of a sphere. It is absolutely concave. It pinches down where your angle of viewing is at it's lowest, creating a ring around you.
It's the same reason that, on a clear blue ocean, you would have a sense that the horizon curves. It doesn't, it is a flat circle all the way around you. You are equidistant to every point on the horizon. You have a sense of it's curviture due to your viewing angle at that moment. If you turn your head 90 degrees, it looks the same. But the part that you see has "high" now, was "low" a moment ago.
I suppose that's a fair point. I guess I'll have to see it fully in game to gain the proper perspective.
Really? Because it looks like the bottom is, because the haze of the atmosphere looks like it's arching over rather than curving with the concave nature one expects from the interior of the shell.
The red line drawn straight across reveals that the top of the atmosphere bulges up, as the edges do not touch it. The other lines highlight how the atmosphere is actually curving. It's convex, not concave.
It seems convex because your you can only so so far away in a circle, then above where the atmosphere is thinner or non-existent so that it doesn't refract all the light into a haze you can see the far wall of the sphere.
I'm hoping it introduces Adventure Zone DOff Assignments, myself.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
I do know one thing. The devs better not give the map(s) any day/night cycles.
Why not? It wouldn't be considered wrong for a civilization to make use of artificial environmental conditions to simulate night and day in such a fashion!!!
Why not? It wouldn't be considered wrong for a civilization to make use of artificial environmental conditions to simulate night and day in such a fashion!!!
Exactly. The only reason why a day/night system should not be implemented is if it is not possible to implement or is too much effort to implement.
I'm hoping it introduces Adventure Zone DOff Assignments, myself.
YES! Seriously we need more Doff missions in general and more awesome assignment chains. And we will definitely need to do a lot of exploring inside that sphere.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Comments
That reminds me of a doctor Who episode.:D
The season isn't even over yet though. I'm used to stuff taking a year at least.
They could have a second Focused Solar Collecting Hemisphere on the inside of the Dyson Sphere that orbits in the reverse direction to the outer sphere.
This leads to a long shadow that rolls across the outer sphere, simulating day and night, and still not wasting one bit of sunlight as the Focused Solar Collector is working at peak efficiency all the time.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
I think this is more due to the slight fisheye effect at the edges of the screen than the curvature of the actual ground.
You don't need a barrier. Whatever generates the sphere's surface gravity (whether it's artificial like a starship's or rotational for the sake of efficiency), it will also hold the atmosphere as well. If it is rotational, you'll have the minor problem of decreasing density the farther you are from the equator and some leaking off into the open interior space at the poles where there is no rotational gravity.
Fully artificial gravity would solve that problem, and in Star Trek the energy demands of artificial gravity seem to be trivial - ships with main and backup power offline and their reactors shut down still have functioning gravity, in a couple cases we see this even after they've been in that state for years.
lolllll
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I really don't see it
That is all within the camera. The atmosphere is a fresnel material on the interior of a sphere. It is absolutely concave. It pinches down where your angle of viewing is at it's lowest, creating a ring around you.
It's the same reason that, on a clear blue ocean, you would have a sense that the horizon curves. It doesn't, it is a flat circle all the way around you. You are equidistant to every point on the horizon. You have a sense of it's curviture due to your viewing angle at that moment. If you turn your head 90 degrees, it looks the same. But the part that you see has "high" now, was "low" a moment ago.
I doubt we're going to get into that much detail in game. But, essentially creating time zones, where part of the sphere is in the dark and part isn't, is actually pretty problematic. While you would be shielded from the sun, the entire opposite side of the sphere would be lit, and reflecting light onto you, creating an effect that would be more akin to sitting in the shade on a bright day than proper night time.
However, constructing additional shielding might deal with that issue. I'm going to let the more skilled people here deal with it, but a system of sufficient complexity could in fact cause a day-night cycle.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Y U NO use shields to polarize the light? No need to build a physical thing, just pop a shield over the region that blocks incoming light. Poof, instant night time.
But not quite as offensive as it's gonna be when they lose to the hairless apes. Can't wait to knock those fossils down a peg. Or meet some of the sane non-monolithic ones.
I was concerned about the visible horizon, though Tacofangs did point out the flaws. Below a certain altitude off the surface of the sphere there would be a perceivable horizon. We should all note that the interior volume of this Dyson's sphere should be substantially larger than every other single system map in the game, maybe combined. This is a stage that could be on the level of an entire solar system. Can't wait to see how it's set up.
As for the issue of day and night cycle there are a variety of solutions, though any system or hologram that blocks the interior from receiving light defeats the purpose of the Dyson's Sphere. The easiest way to do it is to simply have one subterranean buildings and neighborhoods that are simply not exposed to the sun, or to travel to the exterior surface of the Dyson's sphere for your nighttime cycle. Live on the exterior, work on the interior. Which is the most logical as from the outside of the sphere you actually get to see stars.
In the Relics episode there were lots of cool details for things like gravity, for instance the sheer mass of the thing was enough to to pull ships out of warp, like the gravity well generators on Imperial Interdictor cruisers in Star Wars. So it could have gravity interior and exterior by its sheer mass. Also of note it's made of Carbon Neutronium, making it an apparently workable version of the material the Doomsday Machine is made of. I don't know if the two spheres are going to be connected, but it's gonna be fascinating if there are two species on that technological level in the Star Trek universe.
My character Tsin'xing
I just thought about the idea of the actual interior of the sphere being filled with air.
What a disaster. The stars heat would reach the surface via convection instead of radiation.
I think other than standard artificial gravity, the mass of the object would hold an atmosphere.
Or maybe force fields at a certain altitude like The Citadel.
Centrifugal gravity does work on gasses (this is how we isolate radioisotopes for nuclear reactors or medical uses). A better model of them would be balls bouncing around on a billards table on the back of a truck on the freeway - they're moving randomly relative to each other, but are still moving with the truck at 60 mph.
Force fields would be the only effective method. Not just for holding in the atmosphere and being able to have a day/night cycle, but to protect the Dyson Sphere from solar discharges. If a race could build a Dyson Sphere, then they should be able to control their star, but things can always go wrong. After all, if a race can control a star, they could use it as a weapon on their enemies and there is no proof that everyone on a Dyson Sphere is nice, friendly, and belongs to the same nation.
My character Tsin'xing
Actually building a Dyson's sphere is a method of controlling a star, but it's not the same level of control as a fusion reactor. You can't turn the thing off. In fact the Sphere in "Relics" was apparently abandoned because the star went into a phase where it was producing massive amounts of radiation that made the interior uninhabitable.
I still think using force fields to create a night cycle is a bad idea, the entire point of a Dyson's Sphere or shell system is to absorb the maximum amount of sunlight possible. Having a system that blocks out large portions of the light over a large area for a significant period of time runs counter to the function. A mechanical system covers this by providing a secondary absorption apparatus.
And the last point I would think that everyone inhabiting the sphere would be of the same nation or at least united. The amount of resources and work necessary to construct such an object is something that you can't do as a single homogenous nation especially if you're in conflict with others. It requires the mass of several star systems to pull off.
That said there is no reason they're nice and friendly to others, but everyone who would live in the sphere should all be on the same page. But it appears that those people are long gone.
That's basically the same effect as the old 'day-as-night' blue filter that they used on cameras back in the sixties and seventies so that they could film 'night' scenes during the day, isn't it?
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
It would be really neat if the fleet holding version of the spire (if there is such a thing :P ) has a day-night cycle like Bajor or Risa. That'd be really cool, I think.
You get this with normal gravity, as well - all the planets in our solar system experience some degree of atmospheric loss. A dyson sphere does have a slight advantage over a planet in this respect, though - the solar wind will blow at least some lost atmosphere back into the sphere, rather than away from the planet.
I'm fairly certain I saw something like Dyson_Sphere_Squid.mset
also just saw Planet_Iconia (don't remember going there yet)
Anyone else look at the files while it's patching?
My character Tsin'xing
I suppose that's a fair point. I guess I'll have to see it fully in game to gain the proper perspective.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=841381
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=830911
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=835141
It seems convex because your you can only so so far away in a circle, then above where the atmosphere is thinner or non-existent so that it doesn't refract all the light into a haze you can see the far wall of the sphere.
I hope she is an Orion Slave dance girl and the reward for saving her is a private lap dance
Hopefully there will be exploration missions as well, finding what a certain building or console is for, translating a language, like that.
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
Why not? It wouldn't be considered wrong for a civilization to make use of artificial environmental conditions to simulate night and day in such a fashion!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Exactly. The only reason why a day/night system should not be implemented is if it is not possible to implement or is too much effort to implement.
YES! Seriously we need more Doff missions in general and more awesome assignment chains. And we will definitely need to do a lot of exploring inside that sphere.