I love the part where he says "mega rewards" I wonder if the first to get to T5 will get a "I win" button on a 3 min cooldown which will blow up all enemy ships on the map:eek:
T2 Voth adv subspace jump - every time you are targeted your ship instantly jumps to 20km away
T4 Voth subspace vortex - ability allows the user to transport all enemy player controlled ships to another part of the galaxy and it takes them 5 min to return to the map.
Fun times ahead for Geko's favorite part of the game : PvP:eek:
So i decide to try out pvp. this game's pvp has reached a tipping point. You either really really have, or you really really dont. and theres nothing that can really be done to save it. its to specialized. the feeling i get, as a new pvper, is you have no chance in hell of ever getting better, there is no learning curve. you are just here so us leet veterans have a target to practice on. My experience is so bad thats im never trying it again. ever. cryptic could dangle a three pack of scimitar ships in front of me, and id tell them where they can shove their TRIBBLE.
ok ill leave now so everyone can tell me how bad i am, or learn to fly. and i wont read a word of it. Just wanting you to have feedback, of why ill never pvp again.
TL;DR the learning curve in pvp is too brutal. to ever get the pvp community to grow, soften it.
I understand the OPs feelings
Cryptic makes the gap bigger with each new rep system each new super BO and Doff and right now the Gap is no longer a stream or a river it is a ocean a new player has to cross
PvP right now does not even resemble star trek
Its more like a space fighter game with magic included
In hardly any way does PvP look like a star trek space battles from the shows or movies except a few of the ships look like they were copied from star trek in looks only
You need a joystick from a F15 to fly a ship now they have so much speed and manoverability its really stupid compared to canon
I usge the cryptic team to watch some Tv shows featuring Star Trek Really this game is so far off base in PvP i think a refresher course is needed
and now to top it off the Romulan characters and ships show up with such power over the older Fed and klingon characters it is truly patethic
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I think they honestly don't care about expanding or fixing PvP. But they do want to keep harvesting PvPers for money. I suspect we are the "whales" contributing an over sized portion of the profits to this game.
Rep grinds will continue because end game would be dead without them. It keeps the veterans busy. But Reps need to be removed from PvP .... period.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I don't think stomping on all the veteran players to make newer less experienced players feel better about themselves is the solution.
On another note, it is true, time gated content is lame and slows things down far too much.
To an extent, it's why it's easier to stand in the middle and stomp on both...while suggesting that split. The new players are insane to think that they should have all the goodies that a vet does - the vet players are insane to think that all the goodies do not make it pointless for the new player to try (and that it's not quite really a case of the new player going through the same thing that the vet did).
PreS7, I'd usually reroll one of my guys every 2-3 weeks. Because PreS7, I could ding in a weekend and have several sets of Mk XI gear or better by the following weekend. It would take a week if that to gear a toon. With S7, there was also the conversion boxes.
Enter S7 with the New Rom/Omega Reps.
A PreS7 toon starting those Reps had an advantage over the S7 toon starting them.
Enter LoR with the Nukara Rep.
A PreS7 toon has an advantage over the S7 toon that has an advantage over the LoR toon.
Here come the Voth and S8!
A PreS7 toon has an advantage over the S7 toon that has an advantage over the LoR toon that has an advantage over the new S8 toon.
The simple fact is that that veteran player never had it as rough as the new player, because the vet player was there during the incremental additions of everything...the new player has to deal with it all at the same time, and they have to catch up with it all.
I had 4 guys PreS7. I chose to reroll them for S7 (wanted a fresh start, wanted to see what it would be like for the new player in comparison - wanted more of a challenge - and yeah, I still kick myself over that...lol/meh. Heck, I kick myself at times for every toon that I deleted for that year before S7...but I refused to pay the 500 Zen for a respec at the time (that's changed since S7)...
...I added 2 more guys with the 3rd Anniversary. I added two guys after that but before LoR to help out with testing mainly (but I started playing them as if they were normal toons). I added the guy with LoR.
I've been tempted to delete all my guys and start over again...but I look at the path there, and well - yeah, I haven't done it. I really want to do it - but I haven't done it. I've got another character slot there that I haven't rolled, because I can't see going through it again.
3 of my 9 guys are T5 New Rom/T5 Omega..1 of them is also T5 Nukara, with the other 2 being T4/T3. Outside of the odd weapon, upgrading the Cores, I'm generally happy with where their gearing is. The other 6 guys? Meh, yeah - no. The 3 KDF usually only do Die25 and the 3 Feds don't go anywhere near PvP outside of doing a quick test for something.
Somewhere down the road, there's the talk of the Cardassians, Liberated Borg, and more - I can't even begin to imagine how far behind new toons for those factions will be...meh.
I've ground my keester off for those 3 guys, and I'll have eventually ground my keester off for the rest of them. So I want that place I can play with all of that jazz...but then there's the 6 other guys, and well - I want a place I can play with them too.
That's why I tend to harp on the doing away with the FvF, FvK, KvK queues - going to a RvB system - and introducing some sort of queue split that addresses starting players vs. vet players.
I don't agree with the new players or alts having to fight against the geared out the wahzoo guys - I don't see how that's fun for the vet players (I don't have any fun on those 3 guys if the target dies before I've finished hitting all the keys for some convoluted alpha I'm trying to pull off), it's a slaughter for the new players...
...but I also don't agree with the separate game thing, where we're all flying Cryptic's idea of how a ship should be (c'mon, who hasn't taken some Excedrin after looking at the Ambassador build during Temporal Ambassador?).
Meh, I need to stop thinking about rerolling all my guys...or maybe I should reroll them. Have to figure I'd end up walking away at that point, and perhaps that's best with where it looks like the game's going with "mega rewards!"
There are likely to be more and more Reps...they're not only a form of content, but they're also a form of revenue for Cryptic.
I think they already indicated that they have a few more reps in mind - and I highly expect next year to see a Dominion/cardi/trueway type faction - the 4th biggest faction in the prime universe series.
Home world will be Cardassia - adventure zoen on Cardassia - embassy to build
AND what you have all been asking for: A 5th Rep!!! Cardassian/true way/dominion rep system
I think Number 5 will be the last.
Man imaging starting a new Cardi or Jem'har or even Founder toon and starting 5!!!! Reps from Scratch!!! Yeah I will be doing 10 new toons for sure!! NOT:eek:
To an extent, it's why it's easier to stand in the middle and stomp on both...while suggesting that split. The new players are insane to think that they should have all the goodies that a vet does - the vet players are insane to think that all the goodies do not make it pointless for the new player to try (and that it's not quite really a case of the new player going through the same thing that the vet did).
PreS7, I'd usually reroll one of my guys every 2-3 weeks. Because PreS7, I could ding in a weekend and have several sets of Mk XI gear or better by the following weekend. It would take a week if that to gear a toon. With S7, there was also the conversion boxes.
Enter S7 with the New Rom/Omega Reps.
A PreS7 toon starting those Reps had an advantage over the S7 toon starting them.
Enter LoR with the Nukara Rep.
A PreS7 toon has an advantage over the S7 toon that has an advantage over the LoR toon.
Here come the Voth and S8!
A PreS7 toon has an advantage over the S7 toon that has an advantage over the LoR toon that has an advantage over the new S8 toon.
The simple fact is that that veteran player never had it as rough as the new player, because the vet player was there during the incremental additions of everything...the new player has to deal with it all at the same time, and they have to catch up with it all.
I had 4 guys PreS7. I chose to reroll them for S7 (wanted a fresh start, wanted to see what it would be like for the new player in comparison - wanted more of a challenge - and yeah, I still kick myself over that...lol/meh. Heck, I kick myself at times for every toon that I deleted for that year before S7...but I refused to pay the 500 Zen for a respec at the time (that's changed since S7)...
...I added 2 more guys with the 3rd Anniversary. I added two guys after that but before LoR to help out with testing mainly (but I started playing them as if they were normal toons). I added the guy with LoR.
I've been tempted to delete all my guys and start over again...but I look at the path there, and well - yeah, I haven't done it. I really want to do it - but I haven't done it. I've got another character slot there that I haven't rolled, because I can't see going through it again.
3 of my 9 guys are T5 New Rom/T5 Omega..1 of them is also T5 Nukara, with the other 2 being T4/T3. Outside of the odd weapon, upgrading the Cores, I'm generally happy with where their gearing is. The other 6 guys? Meh, yeah - no. The 3 KDF usually only do Die25 and the 3 Feds don't go anywhere near PvP outside of doing a quick test for something.
Somewhere down the road, there's the talk of the Cardassians, Liberated Borg, and more - I can't even begin to imagine how far behind new toons for those factions will be...meh.
I've ground my keester off for those 3 guys, and I'll have eventually ground my keester off for the rest of them. So I want that place I can play with all of that jazz...but then there's the 6 other guys, and well - I want a place I can play with them too.
That's why I tend to harp on the doing away with the FvF, FvK, KvK queues - going to a RvB system - and introducing some sort of queue split that addresses starting players vs. vet players.
I don't agree with the new players or alts having to fight against the geared out the wahzoo guys - I don't see how that's fun for the vet players (I don't have any fun on those 3 guys if the target dies before I've finished hitting all the keys for some convoluted alpha I'm trying to pull off), it's a slaughter for the new players...
...but I also don't agree with the separate game thing, where we're all flying Cryptic's idea of how a ship should be (c'mon, who hasn't taken some Excedrin after looking at the Ambassador build during Temporal Ambassador?).
Meh, I need to stop thinking about rerolling all my guys...or maybe I should reroll them. Have to figure I'd end up walking away at that point, and perhaps that's best with where it looks like the game's going with "mega rewards!"
All the while Cryptic won't let you change class or species if you ever think "I wouldn't mind trying..." so you're stuck with what you got or you have to climb a mountain.
I used to have a lot of characters but now I just stick to 5, even then some of them don't get the love they deserve as this rep thing is just a hassle logging in every day to fill a bar. This then creates the problem of if they change the game to make other classes either more powerful or balanced etc people either start again or lump it.
Not sure where all this is going but atm it seems like STO is running into a cul de sac.
I think they already indicated that they have a few more reps in mind - and I highly expect next year to see a Dominion/cardi/trueway type faction - the 4th biggest faction in the prime universe series.
Don't forget the Craft system "Revamp" converted into a rep system. The probable Dominion Rep System, Delta Quadrant Species Rep Grind, we can make up a thousand different grinds. They'll cover the set item ones first and maybe add a new rep with new set inbetween. So Aegis Set ( craft "revamp" ) Dominion, and Breen.
Don't forget the Craft system "Revamp" converted into a rep system. The probable Dominion Rep System, Delta Quadrant Species Rep Grind, we can make up a thousand different grinds. They'll cover the set item ones first and maybe add a new rep with new set inbetween. So Aegis Set ( craft "revamp" ) Dominion, and Breen.
Cardi/dominion/trueway make the most sense as the next expansion - Cardassia is there as a place for adventure zone/embassy
DS9 is close by - there are lots of unused systems in that sector.
You have dominion sets - next could be Cardi sets - there are tons of people that want to play a Cardi/Jem'hadar/Founder
But 5 rep systems is going to be pretty close to a game killer for people with tons of alts.
But 5 rep systems is going to be pretty close to a game killer for people with tons of alts.
Seems like the very definition of self-inflicted pain. What the heck is wrong with 3 alts, one of each Captain type, for "serious" play, and other alts just for fun and flavour, without needing to rep grind them?
I stopped to bother about this a loooooong time ago. LoR only strenghtened my decission that STO is there only to have a free ride through Ker'rat in my Sovereign or Fleet Escort (TRIBBLE "Patrol Escort"). And even that unltil I hit lvl 50 cause then there is grind wall waiting and I do not want to hit it. The irony, for Cryptic, is that I was buying some C-points and spending them pre-LoR - mostly for ships and building myself a "kitty" ship - even if I was deleting them along with the toon.
Normaly I would simply reroll. There was some sort of PvP at low levels and flying through Ker'rat in searching for Klink was fun enough for half an hour of play daily. Now - dunno. My eng is 49 now, my tac is 41. My sci hit 50 some time ago and was deleted. I have not started new one.
I may try some Romulan just to see their PvE side but other then this... looks like STO is 10 levels gained in Ker'rat from uninstall...
I love the part where he says "mega rewards" I wonder if the first to get to T5 will get a "I win" button on a 3 min cooldown which will blow up all enemy ships on the map:eek:
T2 Voth adv subspace jump - every time you are targeted your ship instantly jumps to 20km away
T4 Voth subspace vortex - ability allows the user to transport all enemy player controlled ships to another part of the galaxy and it takes them 5 min to return to the map.
Fun times ahead for Geko's favorite part of the game : PvP:eek:
I hope they will fire that guy .That would be a great news and a cool daily blog .They could give us that as winter event reward.
I don't think stomping on all the veteran players to make newer less experienced players feel better about themselves is the solution.
On another note, it is true, time gated content is lame and slows things down far too much.
No one said take away your shineys... wait I did I said pvp should turn all of them off... and that is what should happen.
Back to my point...
Why do you give a toss what the guy that starts playing 3 years after you gets ? Why does it bother you. It happens in everything in life. Its called early adopter tax. The first in on anything pays more... does more work what ever. Do I complain that The bluray disc I bought 5 years ago was $40 and is now in the walmart cheap bin for $5....
Suck it up... you played for 4 years with all your pve toys... it is not unrealistic to expect new players to come in and spend 6 months earning those toys... or if your Cryptics money men its unrealistic to expect someone to come in and buy the latest newest toys if they are expected to pay full price for 4 years of toys first... you need to discount that stuff... its just good business. If that new player was willing to pay top dollar for that stuff they would have been playing back when it sold for top dollar.
Get used to it mewi new players are going to spend less then you... both money and time... its the way the world works. First in pays the full price... last in pays almost nothing. Just the way it is.
Why? So you don't have to work as much as they did?
As I have said 5 times now... I have 20 toons most with full rep just under a billion ec every lockbox ship... every trait every doff boff ect ect... nothing I don't own friend.
What I love most about this game however is PvP... and I appreciate GOOD MATCHES. Its why I started the Tyler Durden Channel... its why you don't see me in the ques anymore.
The Rep Gear and lockbox sillyness as pushed the game to a point where new players don't pvp anymore. Its been happening for awhile... new players are reluctant to PvP cause anytime they do they get pug stomped so hard it makes them simply not want to bother. When someone offers them help they start talking about MK XII sets... MK XII consoles... Fleet shields Fleet weapons Rep Passives... Doffs that cost 100mil ec ect ect ect ect.
At that point most of them just go back to pve....
Or worse case they honestly find channels in game that only exist so people can form PvP teams intended to loose fast. I am not kidden... there are 3 or 4 channels (one is larger then Opvp) in game that exist for that sole purpose.
Next time your stomping some pug ask yourself... Hmmm did these guys even try ? Wait never mind you are great... I will be quite they lost cause you are great.
Yes I believe the only way to save PvP... is to Shut Rep bonuses off in PvP maps... and restrict the gear in PvP maps to White class gear.
If you don't think that would make for a better game... honestly find yourself 9 friends all willing to load white gear (Shields/Engi/Deflector/weapons and consoles and play a round... bet you will all have more fun.) Well unless trying to hit the largest crit on the pugs sitting at the gate waiting for there 1400 D is the game you enjoy playing.
Its why I started the Tyler Durden Channel... its why you don't see me in the ques anymore.
the only use for that channel I see is people getting groups there and then moving to pug stomps in public queue.Congrats for that ...Im sure without it pugs would have won.
the only use for that channel I see is people getting groups there and then moving to pug stomps in public queue.Congrats for that ...Im sure without it pugs would have won.
wha? That channel is for private matches only...
are you even a member of that channel? or are you just trolling?
As I have said 5 times now... I have 20 toons most with full rep just under a billion ec every lockbox ship... every trait every doff boff ect ect... nothing I don't own friend.
What I love most about this game however is PvP... and I appreciate GOOD MATCHES. Its why I started the Tyler Durden Channel... its why you don't see me in the ques anymore.
The Rep Gear and lockbox sillyness as pushed the game to a point where new players don't pvp anymore. Its been happening for awhile... new players are reluctant to PvP cause anytime they do they get pug stomped so hard it makes them simply not want to bother. When someone offers them help they start talking about MK XII sets... MK XII consoles... Fleet shields Fleet weapons Rep Passives... Doffs that cost 100mil ec ect ect ect ect.
At that point most of them just go back to pve....
Or worse case they honestly find channels in game that only exist so people can form PvP teams intended to loose fast. I am not kidden... there are 3 or 4 channels (one is larger then Opvp) in game that exist for that sole purpose.
Next time your stomping some pug ask yourself... Hmmm did these guys even try ? Wait never mind you are great... I will be quite they lost cause you are great.
Yes I believe the only way to save PvP... is to Shut Rep bonuses off in PvP maps... and restrict the gear in PvP maps to White class gear.
If you don't think that would make for a better game... honestly find yourself 9 friends all willing to load white gear (Shields/Engi/Deflector/weapons and consoles and play a round... bet you will all have more fun.) Well unless trying to hit the largest crit on the pugs sitting at the gate waiting for there 1400 D is the game you enjoy playing.
I don't believe extreme changes to PvP are really needed. What is needed most is balance, incentive to PvP and reprogramming of the queue system and kerrat.
The ideology that the extremest option is the best option, isn't really the best option, it tends to be the worst. Especially considering yours just spits in the face of all those that spent much time working towards gearing their chars to pvp.
You may argue that "you shouldnt have to gear chars to pvp" but this is an RPG, not a stand alone action game. What you are aiming for is casual gamer nonsense, and no offense, I could careless about the casual gamer... they come and go.
Also, if I wanted to play GW2 I would, but I don't.
the only use for that channel I see is people getting groups there and then moving to pug stomps in public queue.Congrats for that ...Im sure without it pugs would have won.
Don't think you understand what the Tyler Durden channel is....
No teams from TD ever hit the ques my friend.
TD is about forming Challange games... that we balance ourselves. Meaning that if 5 guys from x fleet and 5 guys from y fleet are on the TD channel setting up a match... they don't play premade on premade.... they mix the teams up in the hopes of making the match as balanced as possible. The idea is perfect matches should end with 15 14 scores.
TD is the solution to pug stomping. When there is a fleet with 3-5 guys on instead of queing up and beating on new players... they find other players in TD and create matches intended to be entertaining for everyone playing... sometimes that means shooting at your fleet friends sometimes it means teaming with them.
Check out the Tyler Durden thread... and join the channel in game. When you see people running matches jump in and have some fun.. everyone is welcome.
Mancom has very kindly created us a basic auto teaming utility based on his score board data... it has been a great way for us to start off a run of matches... and if needed we tweak players after the first round... check the thread. Almost every night people are running matches most people find the games to be some of the best they have played.
I think I'm starting to see VD's viewpoint more and more. Here's a thought though. I have put a thread up here asking for opinions on trying to help PvP and PvE be less...THIS. Just all this.
Over 100 people have viewed it and rather than discuss the merits, failings alternatives etc we choose to *****, moan, claw at each other and generally stagnate.
And what do we have to show for it? Look around at our channels, our friends who log in less and less, names that just stop showing up. Fleets lying empty, dormant and gone. PvP where people just join to die and get their little piece of grind. STF channels to do the same thing over and over because we're too scared to do something else for our dilithium.
It's not just PvP that's dying. We may get more new players but we're losing older players which is far more detrimental to the game in the long term.
Edit: Thanks auto censor I didn't mean to leave that word in uncensored.
Don't think you understand what the Tyler Durden channel is....
No teams from TD ever hit the ques my friend.
TD is about forming Challange games... that we balance ourselves. Meaning that if 5 guys from x fleet and 5 guys from y fleet are on the TD channel setting up a match... they don't play premade on premade.... they mix the teams up in the hopes of making the match as balanced as possible. The idea is perfect matches should end with 15 14 scores.
TD is the solution to pug stomping. When there is a fleet with 3-5 guys on instead of queing up and beating on new players... they find other players in TD and create matches intended to be entertaining for everyone playing... sometimes that means shooting at your fleet friends sometimes it means teaming with them.
Check out the Tyler Durden thread... and join the channel in game. When you see people running matches jump in and have some fun.. everyone is welcome.
Mancom has very kindly created us a basic auto teaming utility based on his score board data... it has been a great way for us to start off a run of matches... and if needed we tweak players after the first round... check the thread. Almost every night people are running matches most people find the games to be some of the best they have played.
We had some awesome games today in TD. Thanks to Hilbert's efforts and Zenith's persistence. The last one ended 15 14 which was pheenomenal for all who played. No one cared who won or lost. It was just shear unadulterated pew pew at its best.
Fleet tags were definitely left at the door..... Just as it should be.
Especially considering yours just spits in the face of all those that spent much time working towards gearing their chars to pvp.
You may argue that "you shouldnt have to gear chars to pvp" but this is an RPG, not a stand alone action game. What you are aiming for is casual gamer nonsense, and no offense, I could careless about the casual gamer... they come and go.
Also, if I wanted to play GW2 I would, but I don't.
You keep posting this BS argument. There's a long history of RGP PvP having death penalties including loot drops. This game's PvP isn't RGP based. It's pay for power/grind time based. You want RGP based PvP include the risk of losing those shinies you "worked" for. If not stop using that argument.
It's one thing to have a larger variety of options (niches) based on accumulating different ships/boffs/gear over time. It's quite another to have such an empirical advantage in each niche.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Comments
I love the part where he says "mega rewards" I wonder if the first to get to T5 will get a "I win" button on a 3 min cooldown which will blow up all enemy ships on the map:eek:
T2 Voth adv subspace jump - every time you are targeted your ship instantly jumps to 20km away
T4 Voth subspace vortex - ability allows the user to transport all enemy player controlled ships to another part of the galaxy and it takes them 5 min to return to the map.
Fun times ahead for Geko's favorite part of the game : PvP:eek:
Darn Elitist hard working veteran players~ We should of been there first! It is their fault! yupyup. Game death to the veteran players!
Plox Cryptic delete all Veteran chars, so I can catch up with the content.
and WC3 is an MMORPG Truth Be Heard!
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
[Holo Emitter - Short Bus]
I think the reps will most likely stop with this last one. I mean this will be the 4th one which will start putting new players off.
I do hope we get passives more in line with the tholian rep though. They were less...creepy.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
I understand the OPs feelings
Cryptic makes the gap bigger with each new rep system each new super BO and Doff and right now the Gap is no longer a stream or a river it is a ocean a new player has to cross
PvP right now does not even resemble star trek
Its more like a space fighter game with magic included
In hardly any way does PvP look like a star trek space battles from the shows or movies except a few of the ships look like they were copied from star trek in looks only
You need a joystick from a F15 to fly a ship now they have so much speed and manoverability its really stupid compared to canon
I usge the cryptic team to watch some Tv shows featuring Star Trek Really this game is so far off base in PvP i think a refresher course is needed
and now to top it off the Romulan characters and ships show up with such power over the older Fed and klingon characters it is truly patethic
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I don't know, given how much DS9's come up over the years as influence for the Cryptic Crew...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89WcIwjlQxA
...they probably think they've done a great job with it, eh?
edit: Compare that to...
Nemesis - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQK8ZAQ5usE
The Undiscovered Country - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSqCJ-UGYns
That second one is one of my favorite reasons to /facepalm torps in STO too!
I don't think stomping on all the veteran players to make newer less experienced players feel better about themselves is the solution.
On another note, it is true, time gated content is lame and slows things down far too much.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Rep grinds will continue because end game would be dead without them. It keeps the veterans busy. But Reps need to be removed from PvP .... period.
- Judge Aaron Satie
To an extent, it's why it's easier to stand in the middle and stomp on both...while suggesting that split. The new players are insane to think that they should have all the goodies that a vet does - the vet players are insane to think that all the goodies do not make it pointless for the new player to try (and that it's not quite really a case of the new player going through the same thing that the vet did).
PreS7, I'd usually reroll one of my guys every 2-3 weeks. Because PreS7, I could ding in a weekend and have several sets of Mk XI gear or better by the following weekend. It would take a week if that to gear a toon. With S7, there was also the conversion boxes.
Enter S7 with the New Rom/Omega Reps.
A PreS7 toon starting those Reps had an advantage over the S7 toon starting them.
Enter LoR with the Nukara Rep.
A PreS7 toon has an advantage over the S7 toon that has an advantage over the LoR toon.
Here come the Voth and S8!
A PreS7 toon has an advantage over the S7 toon that has an advantage over the LoR toon that has an advantage over the new S8 toon.
The simple fact is that that veteran player never had it as rough as the new player, because the vet player was there during the incremental additions of everything...the new player has to deal with it all at the same time, and they have to catch up with it all.
I had 4 guys PreS7. I chose to reroll them for S7 (wanted a fresh start, wanted to see what it would be like for the new player in comparison - wanted more of a challenge - and yeah, I still kick myself over that...lol/meh. Heck, I kick myself at times for every toon that I deleted for that year before S7...but I refused to pay the 500 Zen for a respec at the time (that's changed since S7)...
...I added 2 more guys with the 3rd Anniversary. I added two guys after that but before LoR to help out with testing mainly (but I started playing them as if they were normal toons). I added the guy with LoR.
I've been tempted to delete all my guys and start over again...but I look at the path there, and well - yeah, I haven't done it. I really want to do it - but I haven't done it. I've got another character slot there that I haven't rolled, because I can't see going through it again.
3 of my 9 guys are T5 New Rom/T5 Omega..1 of them is also T5 Nukara, with the other 2 being T4/T3. Outside of the odd weapon, upgrading the Cores, I'm generally happy with where their gearing is. The other 6 guys? Meh, yeah - no. The 3 KDF usually only do Die25 and the 3 Feds don't go anywhere near PvP outside of doing a quick test for something.
Somewhere down the road, there's the talk of the Cardassians, Liberated Borg, and more - I can't even begin to imagine how far behind new toons for those factions will be...meh.
I've ground my keester off for those 3 guys, and I'll have eventually ground my keester off for the rest of them. So I want that place I can play with all of that jazz...but then there's the 6 other guys, and well - I want a place I can play with them too.
That's why I tend to harp on the doing away with the FvF, FvK, KvK queues - going to a RvB system - and introducing some sort of queue split that addresses starting players vs. vet players.
I don't agree with the new players or alts having to fight against the geared out the wahzoo guys - I don't see how that's fun for the vet players (I don't have any fun on those 3 guys if the target dies before I've finished hitting all the keys for some convoluted alpha I'm trying to pull off), it's a slaughter for the new players...
...but I also don't agree with the separate game thing, where we're all flying Cryptic's idea of how a ship should be (c'mon, who hasn't taken some Excedrin after looking at the Ambassador build during Temporal Ambassador?).
Meh, I need to stop thinking about rerolling all my guys...or maybe I should reroll them. Have to figure I'd end up walking away at that point, and perhaps that's best with where it looks like the game's going with "mega rewards!"
I think they already indicated that they have a few more reps in mind - and I highly expect next year to see a Dominion/cardi/trueway type faction - the 4th biggest faction in the prime universe series.
Home world will be Cardassia - adventure zoen on Cardassia - embassy to build
AND what you have all been asking for: A 5th Rep!!! Cardassian/true way/dominion rep system
I think Number 5 will be the last.
Man imaging starting a new Cardi or Jem'har or even Founder toon and starting 5!!!! Reps from Scratch!!! Yeah I will be doing 10 new toons for sure!! NOT:eek:
(I did 5 rommies)
All the while Cryptic won't let you change class or species if you ever think "I wouldn't mind trying..." so you're stuck with what you got or you have to climb a mountain.
I used to have a lot of characters but now I just stick to 5, even then some of them don't get the love they deserve as this rep thing is just a hassle logging in every day to fill a bar. This then creates the problem of if they change the game to make other classes either more powerful or balanced etc people either start again or lump it.
Not sure where all this is going but atm it seems like STO is running into a cul de sac.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Don't forget the Craft system "Revamp" converted into a rep system. The probable Dominion Rep System, Delta Quadrant Species Rep Grind, we can make up a thousand different grinds. They'll cover the set item ones first and maybe add a new rep with new set inbetween. So Aegis Set ( craft "revamp" ) Dominion, and Breen.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Cardi/dominion/trueway make the most sense as the next expansion - Cardassia is there as a place for adventure zone/embassy
DS9 is close by - there are lots of unused systems in that sector.
You have dominion sets - next could be Cardi sets - there are tons of people that want to play a Cardi/Jem'hadar/Founder
But 5 rep systems is going to be pretty close to a game killer for people with tons of alts.
Seems like the very definition of self-inflicted pain. What the heck is wrong with 3 alts, one of each Captain type, for "serious" play, and other alts just for fun and flavour, without needing to rep grind them?
Omega
Nukara
Voth
PvP/Warfront
Crafting
Undine
Iconian
Delta Quadrant
Cardassian
Liberated Borg (not to be confused with Omega)
Temporal
Etc, etc, etc...
...figure two Reps a year.
Have to wonder if somewhere down the road they'll continue with their deckbuilding nonsense talk and limit the number of passives you can slot...
Normaly I would simply reroll. There was some sort of PvP at low levels and flying through Ker'rat in searching for Klink was fun enough for half an hour of play daily. Now - dunno. My eng is 49 now, my tac is 41. My sci hit 50 some time ago and was deleted. I have not started new one.
I may try some Romulan just to see their PvE side but other then this... looks like STO is 10 levels gained in Ker'rat from uninstall...
I hope they will fire that guy .That would be a great news and a cool daily blog .They could give us that as winter event reward.
No one said take away your shineys... wait I did I said pvp should turn all of them off... and that is what should happen.
Back to my point...
Why do you give a toss what the guy that starts playing 3 years after you gets ? Why does it bother you. It happens in everything in life. Its called early adopter tax. The first in on anything pays more... does more work what ever. Do I complain that The bluray disc I bought 5 years ago was $40 and is now in the walmart cheap bin for $5....
Suck it up... you played for 4 years with all your pve toys... it is not unrealistic to expect new players to come in and spend 6 months earning those toys... or if your Cryptics money men its unrealistic to expect someone to come in and buy the latest newest toys if they are expected to pay full price for 4 years of toys first... you need to discount that stuff... its just good business. If that new player was willing to pay top dollar for that stuff they would have been playing back when it sold for top dollar.
Get used to it mewi new players are going to spend less then you... both money and time... its the way the world works. First in pays the full price... last in pays almost nothing. Just the way it is.
Why? So you don't have to work as much as they did?
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
As I have said 5 times now... I have 20 toons most with full rep just under a billion ec every lockbox ship... every trait every doff boff ect ect... nothing I don't own friend.
What I love most about this game however is PvP... and I appreciate GOOD MATCHES. Its why I started the Tyler Durden Channel... its why you don't see me in the ques anymore.
The Rep Gear and lockbox sillyness as pushed the game to a point where new players don't pvp anymore. Its been happening for awhile... new players are reluctant to PvP cause anytime they do they get pug stomped so hard it makes them simply not want to bother. When someone offers them help they start talking about MK XII sets... MK XII consoles... Fleet shields Fleet weapons Rep Passives... Doffs that cost 100mil ec ect ect ect ect.
At that point most of them just go back to pve....
Or worse case they honestly find channels in game that only exist so people can form PvP teams intended to loose fast. I am not kidden... there are 3 or 4 channels (one is larger then Opvp) in game that exist for that sole purpose.
Next time your stomping some pug ask yourself... Hmmm did these guys even try ? Wait never mind you are great... I will be quite they lost cause you are great.
Yes I believe the only way to save PvP... is to Shut Rep bonuses off in PvP maps... and restrict the gear in PvP maps to White class gear.
If you don't think that would make for a better game... honestly find yourself 9 friends all willing to load white gear (Shields/Engi/Deflector/weapons and consoles and play a round... bet you will all have more fun.) Well unless trying to hit the largest crit on the pugs sitting at the gate waiting for there 1400 D is the game you enjoy playing.
the only use for that channel I see is people getting groups there and then moving to pug stomps in public queue.Congrats for that ...Im sure without it pugs would have won.
wha? That channel is for private matches only...
are you even a member of that channel? or are you just trolling?
I don't believe extreme changes to PvP are really needed. What is needed most is balance, incentive to PvP and reprogramming of the queue system and kerrat.
The ideology that the extremest option is the best option, isn't really the best option, it tends to be the worst. Especially considering yours just spits in the face of all those that spent much time working towards gearing their chars to pvp.
You may argue that "you shouldnt have to gear chars to pvp" but this is an RPG, not a stand alone action game. What you are aiming for is casual gamer nonsense, and no offense, I could careless about the casual gamer... they come and go.
Also, if I wanted to play GW2 I would, but I don't.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Don't think you understand what the Tyler Durden channel is....
No teams from TD ever hit the ques my friend.
TD is about forming Challange games... that we balance ourselves. Meaning that if 5 guys from x fleet and 5 guys from y fleet are on the TD channel setting up a match... they don't play premade on premade.... they mix the teams up in the hopes of making the match as balanced as possible. The idea is perfect matches should end with 15 14 scores.
TD is the solution to pug stomping. When there is a fleet with 3-5 guys on instead of queing up and beating on new players... they find other players in TD and create matches intended to be entertaining for everyone playing... sometimes that means shooting at your fleet friends sometimes it means teaming with them.
Check out the Tyler Durden thread... and join the channel in game. When you see people running matches jump in and have some fun.. everyone is welcome.
Mancom has very kindly created us a basic auto teaming utility based on his score board data... it has been a great way for us to start off a run of matches... and if needed we tweak players after the first round... check the thread. Almost every night people are running matches most people find the games to be some of the best they have played.
Over 100 people have viewed it and rather than discuss the merits, failings alternatives etc we choose to *****, moan, claw at each other and generally stagnate.
And what do we have to show for it? Look around at our channels, our friends who log in less and less, names that just stop showing up. Fleets lying empty, dormant and gone. PvP where people just join to die and get their little piece of grind. STF channels to do the same thing over and over because we're too scared to do something else for our dilithium.
It's not just PvP that's dying. We may get more new players but we're losing older players which is far more detrimental to the game in the long term.
Edit: Thanks auto censor I didn't mean to leave that word in uncensored.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
sure .Ill make time to record each time people form groups there and then 3 minutes later you see them in public queue arena stomping pugs.
damn private in public queue...it gets private in public.
We had some awesome games today in TD. Thanks to Hilbert's efforts and Zenith's persistence. The last one ended 15 14 which was pheenomenal for all who played. No one cared who won or lost. It was just shear unadulterated pew pew at its best.
Fleet tags were definitely left at the door..... Just as it should be.
You keep posting this BS argument. There's a long history of RGP PvP having death penalties including loot drops. This game's PvP isn't RGP based. It's pay for power/grind time based. You want RGP based PvP include the risk of losing those shinies you "worked" for. If not stop using that argument.
It's one thing to have a larger variety of options (niches) based on accumulating different ships/boffs/gear over time. It's quite another to have such an empirical advantage in each niche.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter