I don't believe extreme changes to PvP are really needed. What is needed most is balance, incentive to PvP and reprogramming of the queue system and kerrat.
The ideology that the extremest option is the best option, isn't really the best option, it tends to be the worst. Especially considering yours just spits in the face of all those that spent much time working towards gearing their chars to pvp.
You may argue that "you shouldnt have to gear chars to pvp" but this is an RPG, not a stand alone action game. What you are aiming for is casual gamer nonsense, and no offense, I could careless about the casual gamer... they come and go.
Also, if I wanted to play GW2 I would, but I don't.
MY only point about GW2... is this. Its not just them... every new major MMO coming up the pike or released in the last year or so. Does almost the exact same thing... PvP is NOT reliant on PvE gear or bonuses. Why exactly do you think they are setting there games up that way ?
The answer is simple if you don't know. Every previous MMO has suffered from the same issue STO is suffering from now. PvP is easy to access for the first 6months to a year of launch. New players jumping in are only a few months behind on gear bonuses and knowledge in general. However as the game matures and ages that gap gets longer and longer. Until at some point in the road the distance new players need to travel to feel rewarded (as in entertained not thrown shineys)... gets very very long. To a point where the games pvp starts to loose players, even if the game itself is gaining players. (that exactly sums up STO the last year... gaining players overall loosing them in terms of PvP players)
There has been a few ways MMO developers have tried to fix this.
There has been the original rift idea ... where they tiered PvP into 7 tiers. With people with the 6 month grind of items ending up in the R7.... and new players coming in at R1.
The main issue with that idea was new players found games didn't pop very fast at all as there just wasn't a huge pool of R1 players... so the Rift que would throw them into matches with R4 and R5 players... where they would get stomped turned off and leave. They found that the theory may have been sound but in reality the same thing happened and people just didn't put in the months needed to catch up to the games early players... and there PvP pretty much died.
I point out GW2... cause I believe they have done it almost as perfect as can be done as far as solving the issue of player retention and recruitment are concerned.
They have an arena style game where the entire system exists outside of the PvE and OpenPvP game types. Gear is normalized... and the money Anet collects from the Areana PvP die hard players is through cosmetic and game style items.
They also have a fairly well fleshed out Open PvP game where they do allow people to play with there PvE earned items. Being a fantasy games that means raid gear and all of that type of stuff.
It makes for a game that does play to people like you that like to pve and earn a bunch of perks to use against other players... you are free to go to the open pvp worlds there and do your thing.
It also plays to the people that want to PvP where the only deciding factor is team work and individual skill. As they can play the arena style game. Further because of the inherent balance that is created in a system like that they are able to have a Tournament structure in game that doesn't devolve into 1000 gentlemen's agreements.
I get you don't want to see pvp change in a major way... seriously though in order to honestly balance the PvP in this game while still allowing the majority of the sets/fleet gear/doffs and consoles. The only option would be to severely nerf most of them... do you really think that is going to make either you, or the average PvE player happy ?
Of course it won't... so I propose the most realistic fix... leave kerrat and any future open pvp zones as the wild west... and take the ques and create a system where our ships fly specific PvP gear (that is all disable our PvE perks... and make those games about the quality of the people flying the ships... not the gear on them.
For the last time, PVP is a mechanic NOT a genre. There is a "long history" my eye.
Start listing them. and I'm not going to continue reading these walls of texts you keep posting. Seriously condense your posts please.
Edit: Also, I don't think you grasp the concept that games that start out that way, is FAR different from changing a game that didn't start that way.
So, you're back to parcing RGP PvP into PvP. Also, PvP isn't mechanic. Way to change the subject yet again ...
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
So, you're back to parcing RGP PvP into PvP. Also, PvP isn't mechanic. Way to change the subject yet again ...
PvP is an implementation within a game genre, it isn't a genre. You make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Also, the word is "parsing" not "parcing"
PvP is IN this game, which is an MMORPG, PvP complements the RPG elements, it is one. Separating them because you want to pander to newbies isn't my idea of an RPG, it is a casual gamerdom.
Go implement your "white gear only" as an option in a queue don't force it on everyone who doesn't want your idea of "fair."
PvP is an implementation within a game genre, it isn't a genre. You make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Also, the word is "parsing" not "parcing"
PvP is IN this game, which is an MMORPG, PvP complements the RPG elements, it is one. Separating them because you want to pander to newbies isn't my idea of an RPG, it is a casual gamerdom.
Go implement your "white gear only" as an option in a queue don't force it on everyone who doesn't want your idea of "fair."
I haven't separated RGP from PvP, the Devs did. Just like the Devs made it casual w/the lack of any significant death penalty in PvP or PvE. I'm just acknowledging they are separated in this game.
I prefer a solution w/destructible gear if people can pay for power. I prefer a solution where players risk rep if it's time gated. Since, neither is likely to happen b/c it's a casual game by design, I prefer a re-balance, but that won't happen either. Just like the Devs won't separate what gear does in PvP from what it does from PvE.
I find it rather ironic you toss around the term casual so much when it's you that wants a game w/built in advantages for you over new players, options to pay for power, time gated advantages, and zero risk to losing any of it.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I haven't separated RGP from PvP, the Devs did. Just like the Devs made it casual w/the lack of any significant death penalty in PvP or PvE. I'm just acknowledging they are separated in this game.
I acknowledge that RPG is a genre and PVP is in Star Trek Online that is an MMORPG, I do not agree they are "Separate" you are making that illogical distinction all by yourself cupcake.
"Death Penalty" is an aspect within some RPG Battle systems, it is not a standard that applies to all RPGs or even most RPGs it doesn't make an RPG an... RPG.
I find it rather ironic you toss around the term casual so much when it's you that wants a game w/built in advantages for you over new players, options to pay for power, time gated advantages, and zero risk to losing any of it.
What is wrong with just having it as an option to have builds pre-made for everyone? in some queue type match? Are you afraid it wont catch on? Is that why you want to force it on everyone who doesn't want it?
Well as a recent example like GW2 we have Tera, where the new bg's they are adding are based in that principle of all having the same gear for the bg, while they still maintain the old bg's based in the actual gear (those splited in public queue and premade queues, STO could take some learning here..). But there are cases on the opposite direction, all depends in how pay2win (or pay2grind less) is the business model in each case.
Anyway, I personally couldnt care less if they do like that or keep it the way it is now, or both... Meh. Gearing for the best is now easier than ever... Consoles MkXII are mostly obsolete, with the exception of tactical consoles, but it seems and logic dictates that they will be obsolete soon and anyone with a bunch of dilithium and fleet credits will be able to have the best for it too...
Many people, including myself, may not find so much fun in the pvp itself (cause let's assume it, its not sooo good...), with the exceptions of some ballanced and epic matches here and there... But even so...
What some people likes in a Star Trek game and particularly in a PVP of it, its building and fly their ships. Test stuff and so. The game currently fails hard when it offers three classes, and one of them, engineer, is basically useless. That begins to limit your choices to build something different and original. Secondly, reputation system. Cryptic is releasing 10 new reputation systems each month, to keep their customers bussy while they try to offer new rushed pve content and, eventually, they could even rush some new stuff for pvp (some map, game mode, w/e).
That actually limits your options to have a worktable, limits one of the best aspect of this game which is its customization, punishing alt chars with reputations, and in other hand, having such an overpriced store and a capped farming system to discourage using the tools that were designed to be used...
There can't be solution, because if you remove all lobi consoles, traits, broken doffs, etc., from pvp, will have no point to get em in the first place. If you don't remove em, we remain in the same situation. This has nothing to do with being an RPG or an action standalone game (although opening 200 stupid boxes has nothing to do with rpg's... nor action games has nothing to do with casuals, just check what pvp games plays in competitive leagues and count how many mmorgs you see...)
The best they can do is keeping the Arena as it is with some tweaks, and expanding pvp into big crazy battlezones (as big as the engine allow it) just for the sake of fun, cause currently I can take more serously Smash Bros than this.
Well as a recent example like GW2 we have Tera, where the new bg's they are adding are based in that principle of all having the same gear for the bg, while they still maintain the old bg's based in the actual gear (those splited in public queue and premade queues, STO could take some learning here..). But there are cases on the opposite direction, all depends in how pay2win (or pay2grind less) is the business model in each case.
Tera Online is a horrible game, built around pretty eyecandy and poor gameplay options... even their guild system is pure barebones. once you get over how cool the "BAMs" are, the game ends there. At best you'll find it an anime text RPers dream.
Cryptic has desginated PvP as its own game type. It always has been its own game type. This isn't Eve... where its all PvP all the time... and if I kill you I keep your stuffz.
There fore its very easy to take that game type and do what ever they like to it in order to make it entertaining for casual players... cause frankly that has been who they have ALWAYS been going after with this games PvP.
If you think that isn't true why does the game NOT look more like EvE... where they are NOT going after the casual players.
It would be no issue for them at all to completely redesign the entire game type... and implement the changes I talk about... PvP is its own game type and can be fixed any time they grow a brain.
I acknowledge that RPG is a genre and PVP is in Star Trek Online that is an MMORPG, I do not agree they are "Separate" you are making that illogical distinction all by yourself cupcake.
What is wrong with just having it as an option to have builds pre-made for everyone? in some queue type match? Are you afraid it wont catch on? Is that why you want to force it on everyone who doesn't want it?
I'm not against fixed-build queue options. They won't invest the resources to do it. Just like they won't invest in PvP territorial control, PvP foundry maps, or anything else PvP related. They're too busy investing in the next power for power/timed gated grinds.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Cryptic has desginated PvP as its own game type. It always has been its own game type. This isn't Eve... where its all PvP all the time... and if I kill you I keep your stuffz.
What... are you talking about?
Let us clarify something
Your character is an RPG
your traits are PvP
you can choose not to select PvP to be applied to your RPG, but that is a choice it doesn't make PvP any less part of the game or an option for your RPG character..............................
While we are talking about new games that balance PvP gear and progression.
I bet many people are looking forward to the Elder Scrolls online...
Guess what....
Auto balanced PvP... where players with inferior level perks and gear are boosted... and so I understand (ok can't talk about lol) there system will even handicap some to ensure the players in an area are balanced to an average.
You asked for more examples... I think the real question would be name one AAA title coming up that doesn't have a PvP balancing scheme.
While we are talking about new games that balance PvP gear and progression.
I bet many people are looking forward to the Elder Scrolls online...
Guess what....
Auto balanced PvP... where players with inferior level perks and gear are boosted... and so I understand (ok can't talk about lol) there system will even handicap some to ensure the players in an area are balanced to an average.
You asked for more examples... I think the real question would be name one AAA title coming up that doesn't have a PvP balancing scheme.
and Elder Scrolls Online will be a total failure. Mark my words. That is one game...
you can choose not to select PvP to be applied to your RPG, but that is a choice it doesn't make PvP any less part of the game or an option for your RPG character..............................
I have no idea what the H you are talking about.
My toon is a role playing game ? what ?
My traits are PvP ? huh ?
I supposed next you will tell me there is no spoon.
While we are talking about new games that balance PvP gear and progression.
I bet many people are looking forward to the Elder Scrolls online...
Guess what....
Auto balanced PvP... where players with inferior level perks and gear are boosted... and so I understand (ok can't talk about lol) there system will even handicap some to ensure the players in an area are balanced to an average.
You asked for more examples... I think the real question would be name one AAA title coming up that doesn't have a PvP balancing scheme.
This is actually the same **** we have in STO but improved. Keep the pvp appart. An actual MMORPG shouldnt distinct between Pve/Pvp, a persistent world dont have safe zones. Elder Scrolls' gonna be another piece of TRIBBLE, like all the rest of the AAA coming up.
and Elder Scrolls Online will be a total failure. Mark my words. That is one game...
My point isn't specific games... my point is EVERY OTHER GAME developer in existence knows there are major pitfalls with a PvP system that allows use of PvE earned gear. They don't allow raid gear in there PvP anymore... or they make PvP specific gear that makes the raid gear a bad option. (as TOR did... although I would say that game sucked as well).
Point is every dev accept Cryptic (they are making the same mistakes in Neverwinter so they don't get it no)... understand that long term growth for PvP can't be achieved if you tie toon progression in PvP together with PvE.
Its why I say the only real option to save PvP in STO at this point is to REMOVE the ties with PvE.
Nerfing 30 items and sets to achieve PvP balance isn't realistic.
This is actually the same **** we have in STO but improved. Keep the pvp appart. An actual MMORPG shouldnt distinct between Pve/Pvp, a persistent world dont have safe zones. Elder Scrolls' gonna be another piece of TRIBBLE, like all the rest of the AAA coming up.
I agree completely honestly... again just pointing out that every Dev that is working on anything right now understands that for there PvP to grow at the same rate as the game and not shrink they need to continue to fold in new players. Myself I like the GW2 system where Arena PvP is its own system and people PvP there cause they in fact like to PvP. Not to climb some bad gear ladder ect.
My point isn't specific games... my point is EVERY OTHER GAME developer in existence knows there are major pitfalls with a PvP system that allows use of PvE earned gear. They don't allow raid gear in there PvP anymore... or they make PvP specific gear that makes the raid gear a bad option. (as TOR did... although I would say that game sucked as well).
Point is every dev accept Cryptic (they are making the same mistakes in Neverwinter so they don't get it no)... understand that long term growth for PvP can't be achieved if you tie toon progression in PvP together with PvE.
Its why I say the only real option to save PvP in STO at this point is to REMOVE the ties with PvE.
Nerfing 30 items and sets to achieve PvP balance isn't realistic.
and ignoring the fact that pvp and pve statistics should be different by default is the #1 cause for pvp unbalance in most MMORPGs. Not adding forced handicapped mode for veterans so the newbies can stand a chance.
Like I said, you want to handicap veterans? ( ignoring the pun there... arg ) then have it as an OPTION not a universal application.
and ignoring the fact that pvp and pve statistics should be different by default is the #1 cause for pvp unbalance in most MMORPGs. Not adding forced handicapped mode for veterans so the newbies can stand a chance.
Like I said, you want to handicap veterans? ( ignoring the pun there... arg ) then have it as an OPTION not a universal application.
Alright now you just need to stop.
I never said hanidcap anyone did I.
I said give every one = gear.
Remove the gear from the formula.
I said give everyone = perks... lets not give some people free skills and double passive regen ect because they PvE more then someone else. (there not even PvP earned for crips sakes)
What I am saying is make everything equal.
What you SHOULD have that won't be equal ... will be
1) build know how. (if you are a vet you should have a major advantage here)
2) actual SKILL. (again if you are a vet how do you not have a major advantage here)
Honestly if the Items and Reps are = .... should you as a vet still not have a major advantage over a new player ?
I said give everyone = perks... lets not give some people free skills and double passive regen ect because they PvE more then someone else. (there not even PvP earned for crips sakes)
What I am saying is make everything equal.
What you SHOULD have that won't be equal ... will be
1) build know how. (if you are a vet you should have a major advantage here)
2) actual SKILL. (again if you are a vet how do you not have a major advantage here)
Honestly if the Items and Reps are = .... should you as a vet still not have a major advantage over a new player ?
So you are removing someones hard work, and handing it to someone else to make them "equal" as a universal attribute, is a huge slap in the face to those that actually worked for it.
Whats wrong with it being an option? Do you seriously lack that much faith in your ideology?
Edit: Also it is a huge slap in the face to those of us that actually worked for our pvp setup. To that, I say no thanks. I believe in Unique builds, not "everyones the same" mentality.
I said give everyone = perks... lets not give some people free skills and double passive regen ect because they PvE more then someone else. (there not even PvP earned for crips sakes)
What I am saying is make everything equal.
What you SHOULD have that won't be equal ... will be
1) build know how. (if you are a vet you should have a major advantage here)
2) actual SKILL. (again if you are a vet how do you not have a major advantage here)
Honestly if the Items and Reps are = .... should you as a vet still not have a major advantage over a new player ?
So you are removing someones hard work, and handing it to someone else to make them "equal" as a universal attribute, is a huge slap in the face to those that actually worked for it.
Whats wrong with it being an option? Do you seriously lack that much faith in your ideology?
Edit: Also it is a huge slap in the face to those of us that actually worked for our pvp setup. To that, I say no thanks. I believe in Unique builds, not "everyones the same" mentality.
I am not removing anything from your PvE experience.
IF THE REP you have now was earned in PvP I would agree with you... but it WAS NOT it was earned in PvE.
If you are saying turn it all on in PvP sure... ok we could do that as an option to.... in PvP maps automaticly complete Everyones REP sure... why not. Also unlock all rep levels for people to purchase gear from the rep tiers... throw a -p on it or something and make it only work in PvP.
I mean we wouldn't want to invalidate all that work you did for your PvE gear.
PS YOU NEVER WORKED FOR A PVP setup with Rep and Gear... you just didn't. Unless you some how play another version of STO where you PvP for gear and rep.
I agree completely honestly... again just pointing out that every Dev that is working on anything right now understands that for there PvP to grow at the same rate as the game and not shrink they need to continue to fold in new players. Myself I like the GW2 system where Arena PvP is its own system and people PvP there cause they in fact like to PvP. Not to climb some bad gear ladder ect.
Yes, right... But maybe that's the reason GW2 didnt achieve anything after selling their initial million of hyped copies of the game. In MMO, the bigger they are, the more clumsy and empty are the mechanics, specially when it comes to PVP. And it doesnt keep people engaged. For PVP being something in a MMO, it has to mean something, more desirablely, in the enviroment. If the game can't provide that, then it has to come to gear ladders -or wallets- to keep the people engaged and playing the pvp. So, in a game like thit, wich is PWE, mainly a money grabber, and with unavoidable techincal limitations, we have exactly what is predictable. What could we have better? Again, some tweaking here and there in the arenas for the more competitive spirits, and expanding the pvp gameplay outside them and let everyone have their fun...
I am not removing anything from your PvE experience.
Do you grasp the concept that I did all that PvE work for bettering my character in PvP? Your way just removes the RPG elements from the game and makes it a standard free for all.
Do you grasp the concept that I did all that PvE work for bettering my character in PvP? Your way just removes the RPG elements from the game and makes it a standard free for all.
What has to do opening 200 lockboxes to get x op set with rpg's?
Yes, right... But maybe that's the reason GW2 didnt achieve anything after selling their initial million of hyped copies of the game. In MMO, the bigger they are, the more clumsy and empty are the mechanics, specially when it comes to PVP. And it doesnt keep people engaged. For PVP being something in a MMO, it has to mean something, more desirablely, in the enviroment. If the game can't provide that, then it has to come to gear ladders -or wallets- to keep the people engaged and playing the pvp. So, in a game like thit, wich is PWE, mainly a money grabber, and with unavoidable techincal limitations, we have exactly what is predictable. What could we have better? Again, some tweaking here and there in the arenas for the more competitive spirits, and expanding the pvp gameplay outside them and let everyone have their fun...
I am not commenting on the success of any other game... frankly however there are still 10x as many people in GW2 tonight as are in STO.
I agree they could tweak PvP a ton and try to balance things however they are not going to do that... cause no matter what we think as players they believe there revenue comes from PvE / RP-PvE Players. They are not going to rebalance items and rep for PvP. As much as most of us would like to see that happen.
So I vote for a complete overhaul of the system itself.
Give us all a New ship doll... that only slots -P (PvP) gear. Remove Mods form that gear (or include 1-3 of the basic ones) Remove the idea of Fleet shields and sets in PvP matches.... and consoles .... I would like to see them removed but even they could stay and it would still be much better overall. Disable the rep systems in the PvP maps. Leave the Doffs so people that want to feel entitled can still run there 3 tech doffs or 2 attack patterns or which ever other new doffs get expensive.
I don't say it to slap down someones "hard" work... but lets be honest that Hard work isn't PvP earned anything... its all PvE stuff... why the heck should we expect stuff we grind in PvE to be a major deciding factor when it comes to PvP ?
Comments
MY only point about GW2... is this. Its not just them... every new major MMO coming up the pike or released in the last year or so. Does almost the exact same thing... PvP is NOT reliant on PvE gear or bonuses. Why exactly do you think they are setting there games up that way ?
The answer is simple if you don't know. Every previous MMO has suffered from the same issue STO is suffering from now. PvP is easy to access for the first 6months to a year of launch. New players jumping in are only a few months behind on gear bonuses and knowledge in general. However as the game matures and ages that gap gets longer and longer. Until at some point in the road the distance new players need to travel to feel rewarded (as in entertained not thrown shineys)... gets very very long. To a point where the games pvp starts to loose players, even if the game itself is gaining players. (that exactly sums up STO the last year... gaining players overall loosing them in terms of PvP players)
There has been a few ways MMO developers have tried to fix this.
There has been the original rift idea ... where they tiered PvP into 7 tiers. With people with the 6 month grind of items ending up in the R7.... and new players coming in at R1.
The main issue with that idea was new players found games didn't pop very fast at all as there just wasn't a huge pool of R1 players... so the Rift que would throw them into matches with R4 and R5 players... where they would get stomped turned off and leave. They found that the theory may have been sound but in reality the same thing happened and people just didn't put in the months needed to catch up to the games early players... and there PvP pretty much died.
I point out GW2... cause I believe they have done it almost as perfect as can be done as far as solving the issue of player retention and recruitment are concerned.
They have an arena style game where the entire system exists outside of the PvE and OpenPvP game types. Gear is normalized... and the money Anet collects from the Areana PvP die hard players is through cosmetic and game style items.
They also have a fairly well fleshed out Open PvP game where they do allow people to play with there PvE earned items. Being a fantasy games that means raid gear and all of that type of stuff.
It makes for a game that does play to people like you that like to pve and earn a bunch of perks to use against other players... you are free to go to the open pvp worlds there and do your thing.
It also plays to the people that want to PvP where the only deciding factor is team work and individual skill. As they can play the arena style game. Further because of the inherent balance that is created in a system like that they are able to have a Tournament structure in game that doesn't devolve into 1000 gentlemen's agreements.
I get you don't want to see pvp change in a major way... seriously though in order to honestly balance the PvP in this game while still allowing the majority of the sets/fleet gear/doffs and consoles. The only option would be to severely nerf most of them... do you really think that is going to make either you, or the average PvE player happy ?
Of course it won't... so I propose the most realistic fix... leave kerrat and any future open pvp zones as the wild west... and take the ques and create a system where our ships fly specific PvP gear (that is all
For the last time, PVP is a mechanic NOT a genre. There is a "long history" my eye.
Start listing them. and I'm not going to continue reading these walls of texts you keep posting. Seriously condense your posts please.
Edit: Also, I don't think you grasp the concept that games that start out that way, is FAR different from changing a game that didn't start that way.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
So, you're back to parcing RGP PvP into PvP. Also, PvP isn't mechanic. Way to change the subject yet again ...
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
PvP is an implementation within a game genre, it isn't a genre. You make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Also, the word is "parsing" not "parcing"
PvP is IN this game, which is an MMORPG, PvP complements the RPG elements, it is one. Separating them because you want to pander to newbies isn't my idea of an RPG, it is a casual gamerdom.
Go implement your "white gear only" as an option in a queue don't force it on everyone who doesn't want your idea of "fair."
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
I haven't separated RGP from PvP, the Devs did. Just like the Devs made it casual w/the lack of any significant death penalty in PvP or PvE. I'm just acknowledging they are separated in this game.
I prefer a solution w/destructible gear if people can pay for power. I prefer a solution where players risk rep if it's time gated. Since, neither is likely to happen b/c it's a casual game by design, I prefer a re-balance, but that won't happen either. Just like the Devs won't separate what gear does in PvP from what it does from PvE.
I find it rather ironic you toss around the term casual so much when it's you that wants a game w/built in advantages for you over new players, options to pay for power, time gated advantages, and zero risk to losing any of it.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I acknowledge that RPG is a genre and PVP is in Star Trek Online that is an MMORPG, I do not agree they are "Separate" you are making that illogical distinction all by yourself cupcake.
"Death Penalty" is an aspect within some RPG Battle systems, it is not a standard that applies to all RPGs or even most RPGs it doesn't make an RPG an... RPG.
What is wrong with just having it as an option to have builds pre-made for everyone? in some queue type match? Are you afraid it wont catch on? Is that why you want to force it on everyone who doesn't want it?
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Anyway, I personally couldnt care less if they do like that or keep it the way it is now, or both... Meh. Gearing for the best is now easier than ever... Consoles MkXII are mostly obsolete, with the exception of tactical consoles, but it seems and logic dictates that they will be obsolete soon and anyone with a bunch of dilithium and fleet credits will be able to have the best for it too...
Many people, including myself, may not find so much fun in the pvp itself (cause let's assume it, its not sooo good...), with the exceptions of some ballanced and epic matches here and there... But even so...
What some people likes in a Star Trek game and particularly in a PVP of it, its building and fly their ships. Test stuff and so. The game currently fails hard when it offers three classes, and one of them, engineer, is basically useless. That begins to limit your choices to build something different and original. Secondly, reputation system. Cryptic is releasing 10 new reputation systems each month, to keep their customers bussy while they try to offer new rushed pve content and, eventually, they could even rush some new stuff for pvp (some map, game mode, w/e).
That actually limits your options to have a worktable, limits one of the best aspect of this game which is its customization, punishing alt chars with reputations, and in other hand, having such an overpriced store and a capped farming system to discourage using the tools that were designed to be used...
There can't be solution, because if you remove all lobi consoles, traits, broken doffs, etc., from pvp, will have no point to get em in the first place. If you don't remove em, we remain in the same situation. This has nothing to do with being an RPG or an action standalone game (although opening 200 stupid boxes has nothing to do with rpg's... nor action games has nothing to do with casuals, just check what pvp games plays in competitive leagues and count how many mmorgs you see...)
The best they can do is keeping the Arena as it is with some tweaks, and expanding pvp into big crazy battlezones (as big as the engine allow it) just for the sake of fun, cause currently I can take more serously Smash Bros than this.
Tera Online is a horrible game, built around pretty eyecandy and poor gameplay options... even their guild system is pure barebones. once you get over how cool the "BAMs" are, the game ends there. At best you'll find it an anime text RPers dream.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
There fore its very easy to take that game type and do what ever they like to it in order to make it entertaining for casual players... cause frankly that has been who they have ALWAYS been going after with this games PvP.
If you think that isn't true why does the game NOT look more like EvE... where they are NOT going after the casual players.
It would be no issue for them at all to completely redesign the entire game type... and implement the changes I talk about... PvP is its own game type and can be fixed any time they grow a brain.
I'm not against fixed-build queue options. They won't invest the resources to do it. Just like they won't invest in PvP territorial control, PvP foundry maps, or anything else PvP related. They're too busy investing in the next power for power/timed gated grinds.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
What... are you talking about?
Let us clarify something
Your character is an RPG
your traits are PvP
you can choose not to select PvP to be applied to your RPG, but that is a choice it doesn't make PvP any less part of the game or an option for your RPG character..............................
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
I bet many people are looking forward to the Elder Scrolls online...
Guess what....
Auto balanced PvP... where players with inferior level perks and gear are boosted... and so I understand (ok can't talk about lol) there system will even handicap some to ensure the players in an area are balanced to an average.
You asked for more examples... I think the real question would be name one AAA title coming up that doesn't have a PvP balancing scheme.
and Elder Scrolls Online will be a total failure. Mark my words. That is one game...
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
I have no idea what the H you are talking about.
My toon is a role playing game ? what ?
My traits are PvP ? huh ?
I supposed next you will tell me there is no spoon.
It is a metaphorical analogy.... uh duh.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
This is actually the same **** we have in STO but improved. Keep the pvp appart. An actual MMORPG shouldnt distinct between Pve/Pvp, a persistent world dont have safe zones. Elder Scrolls' gonna be another piece of TRIBBLE, like all the rest of the AAA coming up.
My point isn't specific games... my point is EVERY OTHER GAME developer in existence knows there are major pitfalls with a PvP system that allows use of PvE earned gear. They don't allow raid gear in there PvP anymore... or they make PvP specific gear that makes the raid gear a bad option. (as TOR did... although I would say that game sucked as well).
Point is every dev accept Cryptic (they are making the same mistakes in Neverwinter so they don't get it no)... understand that long term growth for PvP can't be achieved if you tie toon progression in PvP together with PvE.
Its why I say the only real option to save PvP in STO at this point is to REMOVE the ties with PvE.
Nerfing 30 items and sets to achieve PvP balance isn't realistic.
I agree completely honestly... again just pointing out that every Dev that is working on anything right now understands that for there PvP to grow at the same rate as the game and not shrink they need to continue to fold in new players. Myself I like the GW2 system where Arena PvP is its own system and people PvP there cause they in fact like to PvP. Not to climb some bad gear ladder ect.
and ignoring the fact that pvp and pve statistics should be different by default is the #1 cause for pvp unbalance in most MMORPGs. Not adding forced handicapped mode for veterans so the newbies can stand a chance.
Like I said, you want to handicap veterans? ( ignoring the pun there... arg ) then have it as an OPTION not a universal application.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Alright now you just need to stop.
I never said hanidcap anyone did I.
I said give every one = gear.
Remove the gear from the formula.
I said give everyone = perks... lets not give some people free skills and double passive regen ect because they PvE more then someone else. (there not even PvP earned for crips sakes)
What I am saying is make everything equal.
What you SHOULD have that won't be equal ... will be
1) build know how. (if you are a vet you should have a major advantage here)
2) actual SKILL. (again if you are a vet how do you not have a major advantage here)
Honestly if the Items and Reps are = .... should you as a vet still not have a major advantage over a new player ?
So you are removing someones hard work, and handing it to someone else to make them "equal" as a universal attribute, is a huge slap in the face to those that actually worked for it.
Whats wrong with it being an option? Do you seriously lack that much faith in your ideology?
Edit: Also it is a huge slap in the face to those of us that actually worked for our pvp setup. To that, I say no thanks. I believe in Unique builds, not "everyones the same" mentality.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
so you want a mmorpg with out of the box pvp lol
what? that's not possible...you are against the uniform you are against the state...
I am not removing anything from your PvE experience.
IF THE REP you have now was earned in PvP I would agree with you... but it WAS NOT it was earned in PvE.
If you are saying turn it all on in PvP sure... ok we could do that as an option to.... in PvP maps automaticly complete Everyones REP sure... why not. Also unlock all rep levels for people to purchase gear from the rep tiers... throw a -p on it or something and make it only work in PvP.
I mean we wouldn't want to invalidate all that work you did for your PvE gear.
PS YOU NEVER WORKED FOR A PVP setup with Rep and Gear... you just didn't. Unless you some how play another version of STO where you PvP for gear and rep.
Yes, right... But maybe that's the reason GW2 didnt achieve anything after selling their initial million of hyped copies of the game. In MMO, the bigger they are, the more clumsy and empty are the mechanics, specially when it comes to PVP. And it doesnt keep people engaged. For PVP being something in a MMO, it has to mean something, more desirablely, in the enviroment. If the game can't provide that, then it has to come to gear ladders -or wallets- to keep the people engaged and playing the pvp. So, in a game like thit, wich is PWE, mainly a money grabber, and with unavoidable techincal limitations, we have exactly what is predictable. What could we have better? Again, some tweaking here and there in the arenas for the more competitive spirits, and expanding the pvp gameplay outside them and let everyone have their fun...
Yes 100% the truth my friend... that is exactly what ever other developer in the industry is doing. Cool isn't it.
Do you grasp the concept that I did all that PvE work for bettering my character in PvP? Your way just removes the RPG elements from the game and makes it a standard free for all.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
cool ,I guess they also sell skill and reason to want to play and improve.
btw everyone should have the same paycheck in real life.
What has to do opening 200 lockboxes to get x op set with rpg's?
Collecting gear, statistical chance probability, trade, currency, and enhancing your character through these means, is a general aspect in all RPGs...
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
I am not commenting on the success of any other game... frankly however there are still 10x as many people in GW2 tonight as are in STO.
I agree they could tweak PvP a ton and try to balance things however they are not going to do that... cause no matter what we think as players they believe there revenue comes from PvE / RP-PvE Players. They are not going to rebalance items and rep for PvP. As much as most of us would like to see that happen.
So I vote for a complete overhaul of the system itself.
Give us all a New ship doll... that only slots -P (PvP) gear. Remove Mods form that gear (or include 1-3 of the basic ones) Remove the idea of Fleet shields and sets in PvP matches.... and consoles .... I would like to see them removed but even they could stay and it would still be much better overall. Disable the rep systems in the PvP maps. Leave the Doffs so people that want to feel entitled can still run there 3 tech doffs or 2 attack patterns or which ever other new doffs get expensive.
I don't say it to slap down someones "hard" work... but lets be honest that Hard work isn't PvP earned anything... its all PvE stuff... why the heck should we expect stuff we grind in PvE to be a major deciding factor when it comes to PvP ?