Based on what hawk said, the "double-tap" change hasn't even hit Tribble yet.
My guess is that it will be tested, it will likely go live, and then they can start looking at heal/survivability changes.
No other official statement has been made in regard to this and heals, so bottom line it would seem that there is no related balance change for heals in the pipe at present.
Yup.
My concern is that eliminating Double Tap without a corresponding reduction in heals/resists is going to cause matches to become horribly long - tournaments already need to have 45 minute time limits. Heck, I've been in matches with Double Tappers on both sides that ended up in dead stalemates because no one could overcome the healing.
Can we please return to discussing what this thread is about?
These thumb-wrestling exercises about who said what and who's builds suck/rule are not providing useful feedback.
Again... Dev is listening? Distraction bad?
ur not listening your editing out my posts and anyone who disagrees with this off the mark panacea. people like iskandus, new pve focused players, wont be nearly satisfied with this change. they want more. at a time when we need maps new zones and new pvp options, what has made pvp what it is, is under direct attack. poorly thought out changes always make people mad
ur not listening your editing out my posts and anyone who disagrees with this off the mark panacea. people like iskandus, new pve focused players, wont be nearly satisfied with this change. they want more. at a time when we need maps new zones and new pvp options, what has made pvp what it is, is under direct attack. poorly thought out changes always make people mad
In the interests of good relations, I am going to reply but I'm only going to say this once.
I am shredding posts that violate the forum rules. Period. Has nothing to do with who disagrees with what. Has more to do with how stuff gets said.
And discussion of moderation is forbidden, so we can end that side discussion right now.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
People seem to be under the false assumption you need double tap to kill in a timely manner, which simply is not true. Adapt and overcome stop being narrow minded and explore other options you wouldn't normally pursue.
P.S. I agree with mini to a degree, take away the double tap per say but only with the 5 sec in between keep torp powers the same.
People seem to be under the false assumption you need double tap to kill in a timely manner, which simply is not true. Adapt and overcome stop being narrow minded and explore other options you wouldn't normally pursue.
P.S. I agree with mini to a degree, take away the double tap per say but only with the 5 sec in between keep torp powers the same.
In the interests of good relations, I am going to reply but I'm only going to say this once.
I am shredding posts that violate the forum rules. Period. Has nothing to do with who disagrees with what. Has more to do with how stuff gets said.
And discussion of moderation is forbidden, so we can end that side discussion right now.
Guys lets keep this civil and on topic and not throw toys out the pram. We are all shooting ourselves in the foot arguing and bickering who is right, we are civil human beings not barbarians and using brute force to make a point.
End of the day it is happening whether you like it or not.
Key thing now is to voice your concerns for or against in a constructive and civil manner. Acting the opposite will make you look like fools and just plain old QQing.
If you think it should stay justify and provide a 'reasonable' solution
Same goes for those that want this 'issue' fixed, justify, don't give silly answers like I get killed in 5 secs it's not fair, I was only farming, or If i can't do it neither can you replies or my fleet is better than yours.
Resistance is futile, adapt like the borg..
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Oh really? I like to see how you solo Hive Onslaught Elite. Better still, I shall enjoying seeing the Queen adding you to her Collective, LOL!
Lol that made me crack a smile. Those implants are not aesthetically pleasing to my already borked looks lol
But I wonder what Insta Vaping the borg Queen will bring. Highest Single crit I have got for a boss is 172k on ISS Stedl in mirror invasion, Vanished , vaped , vamooshed, vapourised
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
is it even beam overload (stupid lack of link between dps potential & power drain aside)of is it how eptx & batteries work?
eg,
if eptX power level boost wasnt near instant, but subject to the ships power rebuild/transfer rate,
and batteries,
rather than a timed device, where items that added a set amount of power to a system that was simply 'used' as an actual battery functions.
Something I had suggested before, would be to treat EPtX like "emergency transfer", such that you basically get a gain in power on the targeted subsystem by taking a short-term loss in all other susbystems. Something like +15 in the affected subsystem, with -5 in the other three. If you are running two of them, say EPtS and EPtW, then after all the additions and subtractions you are going to end up with +10 in shields and weapons, and -10 in engines and aux. This is because there is no pool for emergency power, so the only place it can come from (other than "thin air") is from the other subsystems, which is appropriate for "emergency" powers.
I'd also like to see all of the Aux-to-whatever consume aux power.
You cant deny it was the most efficient way to kill when done right. :P
Yes Strike, we will adapt andp pursue new ways, until those are nerfed too, and so on and so on.
Until the last ability we can possibly make kills with (ramming speed , abandon ship) are nerfed and we all go *fireworks* and blow ourselves up
Ramming speed was nerfed during/after season 1.
Anyone remember the super rams of old? Good times.
Abandon ship was also needed shortly after the foundry got released.
Missions where you died, warp core explodes causing chaining explosions... Good times. It also got nerfed where you have to be under 50% hull to use it and it can't damage friendlies. I remember a time going to ESD was a scary thing in a starter ship... All the vets blowing themselves up at the spawn point for the map killing anyone go came in...
Now I have not read the whole thread but from what I can summarize is that BO-DT is too powerfull, yet quite a few see it justified because of the large heal power in the game. As probably many of you know there are boff abilities out there to counter cloak and alphas. example: cpb, tb, aceton beam, sensorscan (with doff), gravwell and last but not least passive stealth sight with certain abilities that enhance it.
We can all agree that Sci Control needs a buff maybe even a complete overhall (especially stealth sight). so why nerf/change tactical abilities or healing when the devs now have the chance to create some balance in pvp by giving the Sci Controll the overhaul/buff it has been waiting for....
just my opinion....
why nerf something when other factors have not even been fixed or enhanced to the current gameplay ?
What about PvE BO is a joke skill
Beam users only have one special attack BFAW
BO needs 4 or 5 attacks one behind another like the Romulan singularity core give romulans as part of there warp core....Hello McFly !!!
Beams also need a rapid fire against one target so beam users get the same proc chance a cannon user gets using CRF
The game needs more than one weapon type
Equal but differnt.....cant be that hard
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
All it takes is 1 second to kill a player, leaving bop players a free 4 seconds to smoke their victory cigar
With the amount of bleedthrough doffs (BO stacking) and criticals ...it is now possible to kill a player with 75% shield resistence no matter if you have TSS + TT + RSP or eptS all working together, since a specially equipped bop or romulan spiker can shoot through that tough shield exterior without blanching with ease.... granted it requires timing and precision for a bop spiker but then again it requires defending players an equal amount of ...say 10 shield buffs and heal buffs to defend a op spike dmg attack in a single second....
oh wait ...that's right it doesn't work anymore since bleedthrough is so bad..that those spikers will penetrate your heavily defended shields regardless..... take it from me, having over 10 defensive buffs readily when minimax used his spike on me....well it was a surprise when his attack ignored my shields and popped my 60k hull boat inside a second despite the fact i had rsp III + TSS II + TT II + and Rotate shield frequency with high auxiliary power active...much to my disgust
where are your neutroniums, hazards, a2s, ph, jump console, a2d, evasives, jam sensors etc. etc.
btw I enjoy getting my TRIBBLE blown up by mini :P I find it hilarious but cryptic's power creeps are delving deep into weapons that is making gameplay unbearable
cheers vang, few have played the other side as often and well as you. your accurate summation of the situation makes me smile. the new doff that bypassed shields gave teeth to my spike even if i attacked at the "wrong time"
against the vangs renims and lacus of the world spike never has had 100% success rate when generated from a single ship. even psw doesnt guarantee a kill.
vang and others know it isnt that luck shot vape thats the problem, its that u dont even need to be lucky or good anymore. the style itself was fine, the boosts/new doff/rep pushed it into questionable territory.
and the fact that minmax died so easy from heavy spec and boff inveztment made instant death easier to swallow. now zombie rom rolls thru one shots and is 15 k away in a blink.
not a thing to do with marion or double tap, which vang has been surviving for months (mostly)
All it takes is 1 second to kill a player, leaving bop players a free 4 seconds to smoke their victory cigar
With the amount of bleedthrough doffs (BO stacking) and criticals ...it is now possible to kill a player with 75% shield resistence no matter if you have TSS + TT + RSP or eptS all working together, since a specially equipped bop or romulan spiker can shoot through that tough shield exterior without blanching with ease.... granted it requires timing and precision for a bop spiker but then again it requires defending players an equal amount of ...say 10 shield buffs and heal buffs to defend a op spike dmg attack in a single second....
What you are describing is a once in a blue moon lucky shot. For shots to bypass shields like that you will need have the planets lining up correctly all at once. The Elachi weapons have a 2.5% chance of doing 100% shield bypass for that particular shot in question, after that, there is 5 seconds internal CD. Not only that, you will need to be extremely unlucky for that one single shot to be a Beam Overload as opposed to a regular non-buff shot. Needless to say, it is highly improbable considering every shot has a chance of missing their target based on your defense value. On average, 30% of shots will miss, possibly higher depending on your build and skills. Even then, it is only that on single shot that will go through the shields, nothing else. A single Beam Overload should be insufficient to kill a player outright unless the target is a BoP, even if it crits. With the resistance that most PvPers have, it's rare to see any single crit that goes any higher than 45K. Sure some people like to boast about some 100K numbers, don't put much stock into that, that's highly unlikely against well spec PvPers. Furthermore, even a Romulan specializing in crit will have about 20% critical chance. So you do 2.5% X 70 % X 20% => approximately 0.35% chance of a super lucky critical Beam Overload from Elachi weapon assuming a shot from a Romulan with corresponding Boffs. For a Federation or Klingon without those Boffs, the probability will be even much lower.
oh wait ...that's right it doesn't work anymore since bleedthrough is so bad..that those spikers will penetrate your heavily defended shields regardless..... take it from me, having over 10 defensive buffs readily when minimax used his spike on me....well it was a surprise when his attack ignored my shields and popped my 60k hull boat inside a second despite the fact i had rsp III + TSS II + TT II + and Rotate shield frequency with high auxiliary power active...much to my disgust
I spoke to Mini last night, he is still understandably quite upset with the BO nerf. There is one thing he said that needs to be repeated here because it is true - he is far from the worst abuser of the BO exploit. He may have invented the technique but it's some of those who copied him after that made builds entirely around it that wreck the boat. Mini actually tries to fight people, as opposed to ding them with a disgusting kaboom. That's part of the reason why he dies a lot. Once you get used to his tactics, which there aren't many variations, you get used to his ambushes in Kerrat. What's harder to evade is when you are in an Arena PvP and chaos everywhere, a cloaked T'Varo will snipe you first with BO I + 3 X BO doffs that give additional shield penetration for 4 sec at about 66% of the time, then immediately follow by HY Torpedos and a BO III. Not sure how anyone can survive that. Unlike the once in a blue moon occurrence described above, the BO double tap + 3 X BO doffs will kill any ship with a minimum of 66% of probability even without any critical hits, possibly higher because with so much burst, the BO doff proc may become redundant regardless. This kind of example is why there is not a shadow of doubt that the double tap is an exploit from top to bottom. With all the chaos that's going around you in an Arena PvP, it is not possible for a person to be able to watch out for a sniper like that, unlike in Kerrat.
What's harder to evade is when you are in an Arena PvP and chaos everywhere,...With all the chaos that's going around you in an Arena PvP, it is not possible for a person to be able to watch out for a sniper like that,...
There are these things called "team mates".
They help keep you alive.
They watch out for decloakers.
I know this because I have them, and when we test our decloak builds on each other in 5v5 inter-fleet battles, there are ways to defend against the tactic, and ways to punish the opposing team or the decloaker.
So apparently we are doing something that is actually, truly, impossible?
cheers vang, few have played the other side as often and well as you. your accurate summation of the situation makes me smile. the new doff that bypassed shields gave teeth to my spike even if i attacked at the "wrong time"
against the vangs renims and lacus of the world spike never has had 100% success rate when generated from a single ship. even psw doesnt guarantee a kill.
vang and others know it isnt that luck shot vape thats the problem, its that u dont even need to be lucky or good anymore. the style itself was fine, the boosts/new doff/rep pushed it into questionable territory.
and the fact that minmax died so easy from heavy spec and boff inveztment made instant death easier to swallow. now zombie rom rolls thru one shots and is 15 k away in a blink.
not a thing to do with marion or double tap, which vang has been surviving for months (mostly)
ggs and i take back 99% of bad i said about u :-)
The best defense against spike is still speed. Once moved past your tractor range, not only your beams are greatly reduced in strength, they are also more likely to miss and once outside of your firing range - nothing can be done. Instead, your decloaked ship can't recloak immediately. So a tractor here or GW there, your ship will be like a bug stuck in a spider's web.
Comments
Yup.
My concern is that eliminating Double Tap without a corresponding reduction in heals/resists is going to cause matches to become horribly long - tournaments already need to have 45 minute time limits. Heck, I've been in matches with Double Tappers on both sides that ended up in dead stalemates because no one could overcome the healing.
ur not listening your editing out my posts and anyone who disagrees with this off the mark panacea. people like iskandus, new pve focused players, wont be nearly satisfied with this change. they want more. at a time when we need maps new zones and new pvp options, what has made pvp what it is, is under direct attack. poorly thought out changes always make people mad
In the interests of good relations, I am going to reply but I'm only going to say this once.
I am shredding posts that violate the forum rules. Period. Has nothing to do with who disagrees with what. Has more to do with how stuff gets said.
And discussion of moderation is forbidden, so we can end that side discussion right now.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
P.S. I agree with mini to a degree, take away the double tap per say but only with the 5 sec in between keep torp powers the same.
Hell man, the man spoke sense :0
+1 to this.....
Guys lets keep this civil and on topic and not throw toys out the pram. We are all shooting ourselves in the foot arguing and bickering who is right, we are civil human beings not barbarians and using brute force to make a point.
End of the day it is happening whether you like it or not.
Key thing now is to voice your concerns for or against in a constructive and civil manner. Acting the opposite will make you look like fools and just plain old QQing.
If you think it should stay justify and provide a 'reasonable' solution
Same goes for those that want this 'issue' fixed, justify, don't give silly answers like I get killed in 5 secs it's not fair, I was only farming, or If i can't do it neither can you replies or my fleet is better than yours.
Resistance is futile, adapt like the borg..
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Lol that made me crack a smile. Those implants are not aesthetically pleasing to my already borked looks lol
But I wonder what Insta Vaping the borg Queen will bring. Highest Single crit I have got for a boss is 172k on ISS Stedl in mirror invasion, Vanished , vaped , vamooshed, vapourised
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Something I had suggested before, would be to treat EPtX like "emergency transfer", such that you basically get a gain in power on the targeted subsystem by taking a short-term loss in all other susbystems. Something like +15 in the affected subsystem, with -5 in the other three. If you are running two of them, say EPtS and EPtW, then after all the additions and subtractions you are going to end up with +10 in shields and weapons, and -10 in engines and aux. This is because there is no pool for emergency power, so the only place it can come from (other than "thin air") is from the other subsystems, which is appropriate for "emergency" powers.
I'd also like to see all of the Aux-to-whatever consume aux power.
You cant deny it was the most efficient way to kill when done right. :P
Yes Strike, we will adapt andp pursue new ways, until those are nerfed too, and so on and so on.
Until the last ability we can possibly make kills with (ramming speed , abandon ship) are nerfed and we all go *fireworks* and blow ourselves up
Basically, yes.
Adapt and pursue the next, lesser, method.
Or eventually cave in and use every 1-click wonder console
Ramming speed was nerfed during/after season 1.
Anyone remember the super rams of old? Good times.
Abandon ship was also needed shortly after the foundry got released.
Missions where you died, warp core explodes causing chaining explosions... Good times. It also got nerfed where you have to be under 50% hull to use it and it can't damage friendlies. I remember a time going to ESD was a scary thing in a starter ship... All the vets blowing themselves up at the spawn point for the map killing anyone go came in...
Good times...
Do you even Science Bro?
We can all agree that Sci Control needs a buff maybe even a complete overhall (especially stealth sight). so why nerf/change tactical abilities or healing when the devs now have the chance to create some balance in pvp by giving the Sci Controll the overhaul/buff it has been waiting for....
just my opinion....
why nerf something when other factors have not even been fixed or enhanced to the current gameplay ?
This may be a Fix for PvP
What about PvE BO is a joke skill
Beam users only have one special attack BFAW
BO needs 4 or 5 attacks one behind another like the Romulan singularity core give romulans as part of there warp core....Hello McFly !!!
Beams also need a rapid fire against one target so beam users get the same proc chance a cannon user gets using CRF
The game needs more than one weapon type
Equal but differnt.....cant be that hard
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
**facepalm
where are your neutroniums, hazards, a2s, ph, jump console, a2d, evasives, jam sensors etc. etc.
a2s is a major life saver
What flavor of weapons did Mini hit you with...?
cheers vang, few have played the other side as often and well as you. your accurate summation of the situation makes me smile. the new doff that bypassed shields gave teeth to my spike even if i attacked at the "wrong time"
against the vangs renims and lacus of the world spike never has had 100% success rate when generated from a single ship. even psw doesnt guarantee a kill.
vang and others know it isnt that luck shot vape thats the problem, its that u dont even need to be lucky or good anymore. the style itself was fine, the boosts/new doff/rep pushed it into questionable territory.
and the fact that minmax died so easy from heavy spec and boff inveztment made instant death easier to swallow. now zombie rom rolls thru one shots and is 15 k away in a blink.
not a thing to do with marion or double tap, which vang has been surviving for months (mostly)
ggs and i take back 99% of bad i said about u :-)
Gali some people hope the game eventually lets them have permanent RSP uptime.
100% RSP.
Remove SNB.
Remove APA.
Basically anything that kills their ship is too strong.
What you are describing is a once in a blue moon lucky shot. For shots to bypass shields like that you will need have the planets lining up correctly all at once. The Elachi weapons have a 2.5% chance of doing 100% shield bypass for that particular shot in question, after that, there is 5 seconds internal CD. Not only that, you will need to be extremely unlucky for that one single shot to be a Beam Overload as opposed to a regular non-buff shot. Needless to say, it is highly improbable considering every shot has a chance of missing their target based on your defense value. On average, 30% of shots will miss, possibly higher depending on your build and skills. Even then, it is only that on single shot that will go through the shields, nothing else. A single Beam Overload should be insufficient to kill a player outright unless the target is a BoP, even if it crits. With the resistance that most PvPers have, it's rare to see any single crit that goes any higher than 45K. Sure some people like to boast about some 100K numbers, don't put much stock into that, that's highly unlikely against well spec PvPers. Furthermore, even a Romulan specializing in crit will have about 20% critical chance. So you do 2.5% X 70 % X 20% => approximately 0.35% chance of a super lucky critical Beam Overload from Elachi weapon assuming a shot from a Romulan with corresponding Boffs. For a Federation or Klingon without those Boffs, the probability will be even much lower.
I spoke to Mini last night, he is still understandably quite upset with the BO nerf. There is one thing he said that needs to be repeated here because it is true - he is far from the worst abuser of the BO exploit. He may have invented the technique but it's some of those who copied him after that made builds entirely around it that wreck the boat. Mini actually tries to fight people, as opposed to ding them with a disgusting kaboom. That's part of the reason why he dies a lot. Once you get used to his tactics, which there aren't many variations, you get used to his ambushes in Kerrat. What's harder to evade is when you are in an Arena PvP and chaos everywhere, a cloaked T'Varo will snipe you first with BO I + 3 X BO doffs that give additional shield penetration for 4 sec at about 66% of the time, then immediately follow by HY Torpedos and a BO III. Not sure how anyone can survive that. Unlike the once in a blue moon occurrence described above, the BO double tap + 3 X BO doffs will kill any ship with a minimum of 66% of probability even without any critical hits, possibly higher because with so much burst, the BO doff proc may become redundant regardless. This kind of example is why there is not a shadow of doubt that the double tap is an exploit from top to bottom. With all the chaos that's going around you in an Arena PvP, it is not possible for a person to be able to watch out for a sniper like that, unlike in Kerrat.
There are these things called "team mates".
They help keep you alive.
They watch out for decloakers.
I know this because I have them, and when we test our decloak builds on each other in 5v5 inter-fleet battles, there are ways to defend against the tactic, and ways to punish the opposing team or the decloaker.
So apparently we are doing something that is actually, truly, impossible?
Or is it just impossible for you?
The best defense against spike is still speed. Once moved past your tractor range, not only your beams are greatly reduced in strength, they are also more likely to miss and once outside of your firing range - nothing can be done. Instead, your decloaked ship can't recloak immediately. So a tractor here or GW there, your ship will be like a bug stuck in a spider's web.