All it takes is 1 second to kill a player, leaving bop players a free 4 seconds to smoke their victory cigar
With the amount of bleedthrough doffs (BO stacking) and criticals ...it is now possible to kill a player with 75% shield resistence no matter if you have TSS + TT + RSP or eptS all working together, since a specially equipped bop or romulan spiker can shoot through that tough shield exterior without blanching with ease.... granted it requires timing and precision for a bop spiker but then again it requires defending players an equal amount of ...say 10 shield buffs and heal buffs to defend a op spike dmg attack in a single second....
oh wait ...that's right it doesn't work anymore since bleedthrough is so bad..that those spikers will penetrate your heavily defended shields regardless..... take it from me, having over 10 defensive buffs readily when minimax used his spike on me....well it was a surprise when his attack ignored my shields and popped my 60k hull boat inside a second despite the fact i had rsp III + TSS II + TT II + and Rotate shield frequency with high auxiliary power active...much to my disgust
The point I'm trying to say, is that double taps are not the only problems with bop spikers....the main problem is that there is too MUCH shield penetrating weapons, especially combined with the combo of doff penetration abilities that will melt a 60k hull without even damaging the shields of that defending ship
I understand what actually transpired now. He didn't hit you with Elachi weapons, maybe yes, maybe not, that's irrelevant. Nor did his shots actually ignore your shields per say. I think you should have at least saved the combat log. If I guess correctly, since I wasn't there, Mini was in his Emoe / Romulan T'Varo when this happened. His Tactical stations would look roughly like this :
Commander Tact : HY I, HY II, BO III, APO III
Ensign Tact : BO I
In addition, he will have DEM I + Marion and likely 3 X purple BO Doffs
At the time of the ambush, he would have stacked the following : BO I, BO III, HY I, HY II
His Fore Weapons set up would be two DBB, likely Acc X 3 Mk XII purple and two Quantum Torpedo Mk XII purple
Prior to decloaking, he would have activated APO III, APA III, possibly Tactical Fleet and even pop a Weapons Battery so that a purple Maintenance Engineer can add 10% all damages including Torpedos, and active EPtW for an additional 10% damage on Energy weapons
Assuming no Crits, and that all his 4 Tactical Consoles are used for his Energy weapons, this is what his damage would look like roughly :
BO I : 25K
BO III : 34K
HY I : 22K
HY II : 28K
The first shot that hit you is in fact a BO I. With RSP and all the heal buff on, the only damage that it did was really just the bleedthrough : 25K X 10% = 2.5K assuming hull damage resistance is neutral for now. So far, the damage is quite manageable.
But when that first BO hit you, the 3 stacking purple BO doffs proc (at 66% of the time) such that all subsequent attacks against you caused an additional 35% bleedthrough. 35% + 10% = 45%
Adding the damage of BO III + HY I + HY II = 34 K + 22 K + 28 K = 84 K
84K X 45% = 37.8 K
37.8K + 2.5k > 40K
Mini likely have additional rear weapons firing forward that are not accounted for here. At 40K, it should be insufficient to kill your Cruiser however, that may not be the case if any of the BO or HY Torp went critical. Mini likely have something like 150% critical severity so even if just the BO III goes critical, it will increase the overall damage by 23K to 63K, enough to destroy your 62K hull cruiser within a blink of an eye and yes through RSP as though it's not there.
The good news is despite these BO Doffs being abused (what a surprise, eh?) and deviated completely from their intended purpose - which is to aid cruisers, the recent change to BO will also nip it. Know that the 5 sec delay will actually prevent BO III from hitting you during the 4 sec proc window and the HY Torps can no longer stack within the same timeframe.
Re do the calculation above, the only damage that will be scored during the 4 sec period is a single HY I or II. Assuming it's HY II, then 45% of 28 K = 12.6K of hull damage. Adding the bleedthrough from the first BO, the total hull damage will probably be somewhere between 15-17K. Even assuming every single shot crit in a worse case scenario, it will still only mean 37 ~45K of your hull but it's highly unlikely every single shot will crit. More realistically, you will lose between 15~30K in hull so at most, half of your hull. Once you survive the initial alpha, Mini will be toast & crunchy too.
That just about summarizes the state of the game at present really, pre and post BO nerf. Extreme resists and heals.
I still fail to see any example of extreme resists and heals despite several claims to the effect.
I've played against you yesterday, you were indeed hard to pop as it should be really, one Double tapper shouldn't be able to vape a decent build really, unless you have two in coordination.
Yet, until the fix hits holodeck, that remains as easy as cutting a cake with the current double tappers.
I still fail to see any example of extreme resists and heals despite several claims to the effect.
Yet, until the fix hits holodeck, that remains as easy as cutting a cake with the current double tappers.
Well with your 23 Second RSP +buffs it is very difficult to kill you unless under the right circumstances and that kill window is very small.
As I said if you have a good sci build a single double tapper should not be able to kill you, unless you are enaged with others and using up your buffs, occupied e.t.c
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
i always ran that on my defiant because of subnukes.
TT3 for alpha run best overall buff, be it a small one...
but if i remember correctly, its been a while since ive flown a cloaking ship... when you get nuked, only the powers that are currently on cooldown get the extended cooldown.
having 3 means you will have another shield distro at your fingetips sooner....
i always ran that on my defiant because of subnukes.
TT3 for alpha run best overall buff, be it a small one...
but if i remember correctly, its been a while since ive flown a cloaking ship... when you get nuked, only the powers that are currently on cooldown get the extended cooldown.
having 3 means you will have another shield distro at your fingetips sooner....
i think thats why i ran it...pretty sure anyways
have fun kill bad guys
-thrusters on full-
But wouldn't the CD debuff from an SNB ramp up the shared CD on the other TT?
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
But wouldn't the CD debuff from an SNB ramp up the shared CD on the other TT?
Yes, it would, 3 copies of the same power makes no sense. In the example of 3 TT, say one of the TT got subnuked 5 seconds into its life. The other two TT would have started their shared CD of 15 sec exactly 5 seconds ago - now their count down would have reach 10 sec. but the sunuke adds 70% of their regular 30 seconds to the CD, so it would be 10 sec + 21 sec > 31 sec of wait time before any of the 3 TT can be activated again. So the poster in question would have no TT for the entire duration of the Subnuke. It wouldn't have matter if he has 5 copies of TT, same result.
The logic error here stems from the confusion that a power that hasn't been used yet will not be directly affected by Subnuke, true except if it has a shared CD with something else, then it's considered as if it was used as well.
In any event, I believe TT is seriously over-rated, too many cookie cutter builds where people just copy each other without asking why.
Shared (and system) CDs are never affected by any cooldown-related effects, whether they be speedups (e.g. AtB + doff) or slowdowns (e.g. SNB, TIF). (Example of a shared cooldown: Pop one EPtS, the other copy gets put on 30s cooldown. Example of a system cooldown: Pop an EPtS, and EPtW/EPtE/EPtA get put on a 15s cooldown.)
In your 3xTT example, this is what might happen:
0s: TT1 is popped, goes on 30s ability CD. TT2, TT3 go on 15s shared CD.
15s: TT2 is popped, goes on 30s ability CD. TT1 has 15s left of ability CD. TT3 is put on 15s shared CD.
25 - 0.1s: TT1 has 5s left of ability CD, TT2 has 20s left of ability CD, and TT3 has 5s left of shared CD.
25s: SNB hits, slowing recharge rates by 50%.
25 + 0.1s: TT1 has 5s * 2 = 10s of ability CD, TT2 has 20s * 2 = 40s of ability CD, TT3 has 5s left of shared CD.
30s: TT3 comes off shared CD and can be used. TT1 has 5s left of ability CD; TT2 has 15s left of ability CD.
In the above example, the third TT allows the cycle to be continued uninterrupted.
In short, having multiple copies of abilities is often crucial for continued buff cycling when hit by SNBs (or TIF, etc.), because shared/system cooldowns aren't affected. (This is also why there's no way to use a buff more often than its shared cooldown, no matter what sort of fancy cooldown-reduction effects you stack.)
Shared (and system) CDs are never affected by any cooldown-related effects, whether they be speedups (e.g. AtB + doff) or slowdowns (e.g. SNB, TIF). (Example of a shared cooldown: Pop one EPtS, the other copy gets put on 30s cooldown. Example of a system cooldown: Pop an EPtS, and EPtW/EPtE/EPtA get put on a 15s cooldown.)
In your 3xTT example, this is what might happen:
0s: TT1 is popped, goes on 30s ability CD. TT2, TT3 go on 15s shared CD.
15s: TT2 is popped, goes on 30s ability CD. TT1 has 15s left of ability CD. TT3 is put on 15s shared CD.
25 - 0.1s: TT1 has 5s left of ability CD, TT2 has 20s left of ability CD, and TT3 has 5s left of shared CD.
25s: SNB hits, slowing recharge rates by 50%.
25 + 0.1s: TT1 has 5s * 2 = 10s of ability CD, TT2 has 20s * 2 = 40s of ability CD, TT3 has 5s left of shared CD.
30s: TT3 comes off shared CD and can be used. TT1 has 5s left of ability CD; TT2 has 15s left of ability CD.
In the above example, the third TT allows the cycle to be continued uninterrupted.
In short, having multiple copies of abilities is often crucial for continued buff cycling when hit by SNBs, because shared/system cooldowns aren't affected. (This is also why there's no way to use a buff more often than its shared cooldown, no matter what sort of fancy cooldown-reduction effects you stack.)
The -70% is calculated from the base CD timer, not how much time it has left. Shared CD can be subnuked, without a doubt. What you are saying is shared CD is immune to subnuke, never seen that before.
In your example, TT3 will not keep going with 5 sec left. 21 secs will be added to its timer.
1) The recharge rate debuff of SNB is tied to the Aux level of the person using it. Therefore, it'll vary. I picked 50% because it provided a nice round number to use for the following calculations. (EDIT: Tested it myself; 70% is what you'll get at 125 aux power, and I think 50% is the lowest it goes.)
2) Shared and system CDs are most definitely not affected by CD recharge debuff affects like SNB. Ask around in OPvP for a demonstration; if I'm online (which I am at the time of writing) I can show you myself.
1) The recharge rate debuff of SNB is tied to the Aux level of the person using it. Therefore, it'll vary. I picked 50% because it provided a nice round number to use for the following calculations. (EDIT: Tested it myself; 70% is what you'll get at 125 aux power, and I think 50% is the lowest it goes.)
2) Shared and system CDs are most definitely not affected by CD recharge debuff affects like SNB. Ask around in OPvP for a demonstration; if I'm online (which I am at the time of writing) I can show you myself.
The -70% is calculated from the base CD timer, not how much time it has left. Shared CD can be subnuked, without a doubt. What you are saying is shared CD is immune to subnuke, never seen that before.
In your example, TT3 will not keep going with 5 sec left. 21 secs will be added to its timer.
I just tested out with renim, and - surprise surprise - he's right. I popped an Emergency Power to Shields and a Tac Team - causing cooldowns on ST and my EPtS copy. When he subnuked me, there was no change to those two cooldowns - only TT and the first EPtS copy had their cooldowns increased.
An additional tidbit he gave was that both self-cooldown and shared-cooldown can exist, but STO only displays the longer one - like EPtS having been activated 35 seconds ago (10s self-cooldown remaining) and EPtE being activated (15s shared cooldown). So STO displays 15s cooldown on EPtS. However, you're hit with an SNB! In this case, SNB does not affect the shared cooldown, but it hits the self-cooldown, let's say by 170% (I know SNB doesn't work that way, but for the argument) - becoming 17s, which is what is now displayed!
I just tested out with renim, and - surprise surprise - he's right. I popped an Emergency Power to Shields and a Tac Team - causing cooldowns on ST and my EPtS copy. When he subnuked me, there was no change to those two cooldowns - only TT and the first EPtS copy had their cooldowns increased.
An additional tidbit he gave was that both self-cooldown and shared-cooldown can exist, but STO only displays the longer one - like EPtS having been activated 35 seconds ago (10s self-cooldown remaining) and EPtE being activated (15s shared cooldown). So STO displays 15s cooldown on EPtS. However, you're hit with an SNB! In this case, SNB does not affect the shared cooldown, but it hits the self-cooldown, let's say by 170% (I know SNB doesn't work that way, but for the argument) - becoming 17s, which is what is now displayed!
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I'm not sure some folks quite realize just how long 5 seconds is. Grab an NPC...attack it, trigger some buff just as you do...then watch five seconds tic by. It's an eternity. Do it again, this time - during those 5 seconds...see how many defensive abilities you can trigger. /sigh
if its wrong to come in andvape in 5 secodns how come its ok for the dev to come in and talk with us for 5 minutes?if pvp needs longer interaction before resolution, surely pvp nerf dsicussion does too. please pay close attanetion to the many comments that show the intended fix for this "problem" causes more harm than good. give it a re read u will find any numbr of possible route to go with less blowback.
Double-tap is bad gameplay - period, end of story. It's a workaround for a shared cooldown that was always supposed to prevent exactly what's happening. It fixes a lot of things about this small problem - but the point that many are making (and that I agree with) is that this fix is just a drop in the moderately large bucket in the grand scheme of unwinding and overhauling combat math to make things feel fair for both aggressors and defenders, and make combat between evenly matched adversaries take a more reasonable amount of time. The trick to any of these changes is that our PvE combat is in a pretty good place - people can have a lot of fun flying just about any ship, and can contribute meaningfully to queued events and basically have a blast. Therefore, any change to combat math that also affects PvE is extremely high risk - so the TRIBBLE we have to balance and tweak PvP pacing are limited to those that don't have unintended side effects.
It's not an impossible job - it just requires a lot of care and time investment. If things are broken or things are really bad gameplay, it's easy to justify stepping in and fixing something immediately. If things aren't either of the above but are still less fun or less engaging than they could be, we obviously want to fix them - it just takes more work and more time to get the fix right and minimize any external side effects of that fix.
That's a bit of a ramble, but I know you guys like insight into why we change things we choose to change and how we make the game, so hopefully it interests you/makes sense to you. Please try to stay positive and constructive in responses - I'm happy to entertain discussions and talk about things openly, but if you start flaming or posting off-topic things, it's really hard to justify responding to something like that.
Wrong; Double-tap HAS BECOME bad gameplay since LoR came with battlecloak, 5 tactical consoles, superior infiltrator, superior operative, elachi dual beam banks and duty officers with 35% shield bypass. Until that time Bird of Prey used it, but they had minus one tactical console and minus 6% Crth compared to Warbirds (Klingons also don't have space traits). BoP captains won't complain about the nerf (and it is a nerf caused by greed, at least Cryptic must asume some responsability for the power creep) since they already use torpedos.
But it's not the double Beam Overload nerf that bothers me; it's the 5 seconds discussion. In case you forgot, there's a whole class called Raider, that hasn't yet been deleted. It stil exists and one of the purposes of this class is actually to have a chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window. My questions is : will that chance be totaly eliminated in future updates ?
Wrong; Double-tap HAS BECOME bad gameplay since LoR came with battlecloak, 5 tactical consoles, superior infiltrator, superior operative, elachi dual beam banks and duty officers with 35% shield bypass. Until that time Bird of Prey used it, but they had minus one tactical console and minus 6% Crth compared to Warbirds (Klingons also don't have space traits). BoP captains won't complain about the nerf (and it is a nerf caused by greed, at least Cryptic must asume some responsability for the power creep) since they already use torpedos.
But it's not the double Beam Overload nerf that bothers me; it's the 5 seconds discussion. In case you forgot, there's a whole class called Raider, that hasn't yet been deleted. It stil exists and one of the purposes of this class is actually to have a chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window. My questions is : will that chance be totaly eliminated in future updates ?
Is it bad gameplay? Ask your self what the current meta game is at the moment to need to double tap.
Double tapping is skillful in premades and often difficult, insta popping people in Kerrat whil engaging borg doesn't count and shouldn't. It takes more 5 secs to kill someone. You failed to take into account the minute or so prepping the target, watching for his buffs, coordination e.t.c.
the execution may be quick but the coordination even longer. You can kill with a all cannon setup in a premade, just use SNB.
Ask yourself also will 5sec vaping still happen.. (the answer to this will be yes), and more people will still be crying out for nerfs, o a 4dhc crf3 killed me... nerf it.
You have to adapt your build to the current or future meta game or get left behind
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Is it bad gameplay? Ask your self what the current meta game is at the moment to need to double tap.
Double tapping is skillful in premades and often difficult, insta popping people in Kerrat whil engaging borg doesn't count and shouldn't. It takes more 5 secs to kill someone. You failed to take into account the minute or so prepping the target, watching for his buffs, coordination e.t.c.
the execution may be quick but the coordination even longer. You can kill with a all cannon setup in a premade, just use SNB.
Ask yourself also will 5sec vaping still happen.. (the answer to this will be yes), and more people will still be crying out for nerfs, o a 4dhc crf3 killed me... nerf it.
You have to adapt your build to the current or future meta game or get left behind
My 3 tactical consoles Fleet Norgh needs double tap to strip one side of the shilelds so i could get in some torps. Fleet Dhelan/Fleet Ha'feh with 5 tactical consoles, extra 6 crth, 3x BO doffs, elachi DBB doesn even need torps; or stuns, or holds ; accx3 and maybe the nukara console nulifies APO3 defense . TT, no shield utility.
Oh, people will stil get killed under 5 seconds.
I will repeat some points in case you have not read my entire last post:
"Cryptic must asume some responsability for the power creep"
"Raider... It stil exists... purpose.. to have a chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window "
"will that chance (chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window) be totaly eliminated in future updates ?"
My 3 tactical consoles Fleet Norgh needs double tap to strip one side of the shilelds so i could get in some torps. Fleet Dhelan/Fleet Ha'feh with 5 tactical consoles, extra 6 crth, 3x BO doffs, elachi DBB doesn even need torps; or stuns, or holds ; accx3 and maybe the nukara console nulifies APO3 defense . TT, no shield utility.
Oh, people will stil get killed under 5 seconds.
I will repeat some points in case you have not read my entire last post:
"Cryptic must asume some responsability for the power creep"
"Raider... It stil exists... purpose.. to have a chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window "
"will that chance (chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window) be totaly eliminated in future updates ?"
well the simple answer will be No to all since cryptic has no interest in any of them except to nerf for the 'casual' player
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Technician procs should only be affecting Bridge Officer abilities as far as I'm aware, although this proc predates my tenure here so I could be wrong on that.
The D'Kora EMP burst being affected by A2B has been known about for ages now. Seems everyone knows about it apart from you. Pathetic really.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
becus liek ghe sais, hes a noob dev. literally no memory or care about thow the game started or developed. he comes in and says "HEY WTF PEOPLE ARE DYING! NOT COOL! MUST NERF !" then leaves to go back to whatever bs TRIBBLE he does normally. i cant reiterate hpow patheitc, uninformed, and silly looking the dev responses have been on this issue. really really sad.
nooby TRIBBLE dev, the game being good "predated your tenure"
I understand you are upset and you don't mean what you said. In our skirmishes yesterday, I noticed you have incorporated new tactics and started to mix up your attacks, which made you far less predictable than before. Without a doubt, the upcoming fix of double BO exploit has forced you to come with more creative attacks, which have undoubtedly make you a better player than before. If you don't mind, I like to post the screenshots of our chat yesterday to help people understand the situation of BO-balance and what it means for others in similar situation as you are, hopefully, it will help you see the bright side of things, aka. its silver lining.
For the first time in a long time, your attacks have become unpredictable and I wasn't sure how to deal with you at first. Normally, I wouldn't even give you the chance to land any Crit shot but you managed to Double tap me several times yesterday even though none of them ultimately worked and you died following my counter-attacks - you almost got me though. You even landed a 65K BO III - I hope you realize how insane that was. T'Varo with 4 Tact consoles buffing a normally 1550 Antiproton DBB shot (@ Weapons Power = 125) by a scandalous 4300% in a single shot is already super OP at 65754. Your single BO III delivered so much burst damage that it would take that same DBB firing at maximum Weapons Power for almost a minute to reproduce the same amount of damage. Remember when Vang was one-shot by you recently and he came to this thread to QQ about it because you shoot through his RSP? I did not foresee a single Crit shot from you could have done so much damage, you best my estimation by a wooping 50%. You also realize at 65K+ in one single shot, that's already greater than the hull of the toughest of all cruisers. Now, let's put this in perspective. If we continue to allow you or anyone else to Double Tap, effectively doubling up the above mentioned shot provided both went critical - is there realistically any counter possible against such attack? The answer is none.
Some people like to claim there are a "gazillion ways" to counter double tap - those are nice in theory because well, they are only good in theory. To survive a real Double Tap, it actually requires some luck on the part of the defender. The reason being a seasoned double tapper like yourself carefully watch for buffs and almost always only attack when the target is already overwhelmed or fully engaged against other targets. In other words, you pick the most opportunistic time to engage your decloak alpha and the target realistically had 1 second or less to react because you can engage tractor as soon as you hit decloak even before you are fully decloaked. With so many ships cloaking and decloaking, it's no longer possible to discern whether the decloaking sound comes from a friend or foe - I have often reacted to false alarms. So my only cue is when I noticed a tractor locking on and spoted you flying close from the corner of my eye. And naturally, I was already in another battle when you decloaked to attak although in the back of my mind, I was saving buffs just in case for such attack because I knew you are nearby and you would only target me and no one else. Had you approached me from a different camera angle, the outcome could have been very different. Know that each of my shield facing has an effective shielding close to 60K each side yet you still managed to down one facing against a ship that is flying at 100+ = that is 35% faster than Ramming Speed, it shows how skilled you truly are but at the same time, it also illustrates how desperate most PvPers, even most elite PvPers would be, totally hopeless against your double tap. The attacks were so fast, as the target, I couldn't even see the two shots that hit me, hence why I asked you later if it was in fact Double Tap, which you confirmed. It goes to show how seriously broken Double Tap is regardless whether you were successful or not in your attacks. I honestly believe I survived yesterday in part due to luck. Yes, your shot crit otherwise you probably won't even be able to pierce my shields but I was lucky that I had a buff readily available when you attacked considering how badly the Klink outnumbered Fed last night in Kerrat - I spent the whole time getting gangked up 1 to 5 before you showed up, which became 1 to 7, not even funny - had to take refuge near the Borg a few times, how ironic... :cool:
Not everyone can afford a 500 million ec price tag in ship + equipment + consoles + doffs. And if that's what it takes to survive double tap and Klingon ganking, then there is something seriously broken about PvP.
I believe you can continue to adapt and come up with ways to beat anyone without Double Tap - you have already demonstrated considerable creativity in the new way you approached me in such a short period of time. In other words, the reliance on Double Tap made you stagnant for so long but now that it will be gone, it has forced you to think again, which is an important silver lining in all this. Some may think : "Without Double Tap, how am I going to be able to kill anything?" The truth is you will adapt and surprise your targets. There is no better attack than surprise your opponent - use that, you can beat anyone with it.
tldr. ive got 34 boffs and a myriad of on the fly setups. you are a noob. you know nothign of the game andnever will. i decided to just keep it to myself. the next op thing when u die, and it doent show in the logs, and u dont know... u can spend hours figuring it out on your own.
tldr. ive got 34 boffs and a myriad of on the fly setups. you are a noob. you know nothign of the game andnever will. i decided to just keep it to myself. the next op thing when u die, and it doent show in the logs, and u dont know... u can spend hours figuring it out on your own.
LOL, it's true I am a noob. Though you keep getting blown up by a noob, so what does that say about you, Maestro Mini?
Can't even remember the last time you managed to beat me, Mini, regress much? On the other hand, I can't recall the last time when you managed to survive your own ambush against me. Why is that, Maestro?
So maybe you should try to prove it on the battlefield through actions as opposed to talking tough like a kitty hawk?
BTW, making up something on the fly is not going to work. Show me you actually have a strategy that doesn't involve exploit, broken toys (e.g. 50 sec Graviton Pulse) and etc. because well, without it, you ain't going anywhere, that much is certain.
LOL, it's true I am a noob. Though you keep getting blown up by a noob, so what does that say about you, Maestro Mini?
Can't even remember the last time you managed to beat me, Mini, regress much? On the other hand, I can't recall the last time when you managed to survive your own ambush against me. Why is that, Maestro?
So maybe you should try to prove it on the battlefield through actions as opposed to talking tough like a kitty hawk?
BTW, making up something on the fly is not going to work. Show me you actually have a strategy that doesn't involve exploit, broken toys (e.g. 50 sec Graviton Pulse) and etc. because well, without it, you ain't going anywhere, that much is certain.
u have bad memory. but im not liek you or your kind, so i ownt post videos here to shame you liek u have doen to my fleet abnd friends. truth is you ARE a noob. a new player with no respect for the games tradtitions orthose who have come before you. your just one of the many nerfcriers who ruin games everywhere. u thought one shot with tricobalt was an exploit. not worth your time? thansk for post ur idiocy and condescending tone is recorded in perpetuity
u have bad memory. but im not liek you or your kind, so i ownt post videos here to shame you liek u have doen to my fleet abnd friends. truth is you ARE a noob. a new player with no respect for the games tradtitions orthose who have come before you. your just one of the many nerfcriers who ruin games everywhere. u thought one shot with tricobalt was an exploit. not worth your time? thansk for post ur idiocy and condescending tone is recorded in perpetuity
Comments
Will this mean I cant buff my javelin with beam overload?
If so then NOOOOOO!!!! .
If not then disregard the NOOOOOO!!!! .
I understand what actually transpired now. He didn't hit you with Elachi weapons, maybe yes, maybe not, that's irrelevant. Nor did his shots actually ignore your shields per say. I think you should have at least saved the combat log. If I guess correctly, since I wasn't there, Mini was in his Emoe / Romulan T'Varo when this happened. His Tactical stations would look roughly like this :
Commander Tact : HY I, HY II, BO III, APO III
Ensign Tact : BO I
In addition, he will have DEM I + Marion and likely 3 X purple BO Doffs
At the time of the ambush, he would have stacked the following : BO I, BO III, HY I, HY II
His Fore Weapons set up would be two DBB, likely Acc X 3 Mk XII purple and two Quantum Torpedo Mk XII purple
Prior to decloaking, he would have activated APO III, APA III, possibly Tactical Fleet and even pop a Weapons Battery so that a purple Maintenance Engineer can add 10% all damages including Torpedos, and active EPtW for an additional 10% damage on Energy weapons
Assuming no Crits, and that all his 4 Tactical Consoles are used for his Energy weapons, this is what his damage would look like roughly :
BO I : 25K
BO III : 34K
HY I : 22K
HY II : 28K
The first shot that hit you is in fact a BO I. With RSP and all the heal buff on, the only damage that it did was really just the bleedthrough : 25K X 10% = 2.5K assuming hull damage resistance is neutral for now. So far, the damage is quite manageable.
But when that first BO hit you, the 3 stacking purple BO doffs proc (at 66% of the time) such that all subsequent attacks against you caused an additional 35% bleedthrough. 35% + 10% = 45%
Adding the damage of BO III + HY I + HY II = 34 K + 22 K + 28 K = 84 K
84K X 45% = 37.8 K
37.8K + 2.5k > 40K
Mini likely have additional rear weapons firing forward that are not accounted for here. At 40K, it should be insufficient to kill your Cruiser however, that may not be the case if any of the BO or HY Torp went critical. Mini likely have something like 150% critical severity so even if just the BO III goes critical, it will increase the overall damage by 23K to 63K, enough to destroy your 62K hull cruiser within a blink of an eye and yes through RSP as though it's not there.
The good news is despite these BO Doffs being abused (what a surprise, eh?) and deviated completely from their intended purpose - which is to aid cruisers, the recent change to BO will also nip it. Know that the 5 sec delay will actually prevent BO III from hitting you during the 4 sec proc window and the HY Torps can no longer stack within the same timeframe.
Re do the calculation above, the only damage that will be scored during the 4 sec period is a single HY I or II. Assuming it's HY II, then 45% of 28 K = 12.6K of hull damage. Adding the bleedthrough from the first BO, the total hull damage will probably be somewhere between 15-17K. Even assuming every single shot crit in a worse case scenario, it will still only mean 37 ~45K of your hull but it's highly unlikely every single shot will crit. More realistically, you will lose between 15~30K in hull so at most, half of your hull. Once you survive the initial alpha, Mini will be toast & crunchy too.
I still fail to see any example of extreme resists and heals despite several claims to the effect.
Yet, until the fix hits holodeck, that remains as easy as cutting a cake with the current double tappers.
Well with your 23 Second RSP +buffs it is very difficult to kill you unless under the right circumstances and that kill window is very small.
As I said if you have a good sci build a single double tapper should not be able to kill you, unless you are enaged with others and using up your buffs, occupied e.t.c
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Recommendation:
When that patch eventually goes live on Tribble, head over there and test it, make 100% sure whether it does or doesn't, then go from there.
I run a Defiant Retrofit and I was thinking of setting up my defiant as this:
TT1- BO2-RF2-APO3
TT1-HYT2-TT3
TSS1
(3 AP doffs)
(2x Rapid doffs)
Nice and efficient build kkthx.
R.I.P
i always ran that on my defiant because of subnukes.
TT3 for alpha run best overall buff, be it a small one...
but if i remember correctly, its been a while since ive flown a cloaking ship... when you get nuked, only the powers that are currently on cooldown get the extended cooldown.
having 3 means you will have another shield distro at your fingetips sooner....
i think thats why i ran it...pretty sure anyways
have fun kill bad guys
-thrusters on full-
But wouldn't the CD debuff from an SNB ramp up the shared CD on the other TT?
Yes, it would, 3 copies of the same power makes no sense. In the example of 3 TT, say one of the TT got subnuked 5 seconds into its life. The other two TT would have started their shared CD of 15 sec exactly 5 seconds ago - now their count down would have reach 10 sec. but the sunuke adds 70% of their regular 30 seconds to the CD, so it would be 10 sec + 21 sec > 31 sec of wait time before any of the 3 TT can be activated again. So the poster in question would have no TT for the entire duration of the Subnuke. It wouldn't have matter if he has 5 copies of TT, same result.
The logic error here stems from the confusion that a power that hasn't been used yet will not be directly affected by Subnuke, true except if it has a shared CD with something else, then it's considered as if it was used as well.
In any event, I believe TT is seriously over-rated, too many cookie cutter builds where people just copy each other without asking why.
Shared (and system) CDs are never affected by any cooldown-related effects, whether they be speedups (e.g. AtB + doff) or slowdowns (e.g. SNB, TIF). (Example of a shared cooldown: Pop one EPtS, the other copy gets put on 30s cooldown. Example of a system cooldown: Pop an EPtS, and EPtW/EPtE/EPtA get put on a 15s cooldown.)
In your 3xTT example, this is what might happen:
0s: TT1 is popped, goes on 30s ability CD. TT2, TT3 go on 15s shared CD.
15s: TT2 is popped, goes on 30s ability CD. TT1 has 15s left of ability CD. TT3 is put on 15s shared CD.
25 - 0.1s: TT1 has 5s left of ability CD, TT2 has 20s left of ability CD, and TT3 has 5s left of shared CD.
25s: SNB hits, slowing recharge rates by 50%.
25 + 0.1s: TT1 has 5s * 2 = 10s of ability CD, TT2 has 20s * 2 = 40s of ability CD, TT3 has 5s left of shared CD.
30s: TT3 comes off shared CD and can be used. TT1 has 5s left of ability CD; TT2 has 15s left of ability CD.
In the above example, the third TT allows the cycle to be continued uninterrupted.
In short, having multiple copies of abilities is often crucial for continued buff cycling when hit by SNBs (or TIF, etc.), because shared/system cooldowns aren't affected. (This is also why there's no way to use a buff more often than its shared cooldown, no matter what sort of fancy cooldown-reduction effects you stack.)
You erred in two areas I believe. First of all, the Subnuke III actually causes a -70% recharge timer, not 50%, see here : http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Subnucleonic_Beam
The -70% is calculated from the base CD timer, not how much time it has left. Shared CD can be subnuked, without a doubt. What you are saying is shared CD is immune to subnuke, never seen that before.
In your example, TT3 will not keep going with 5 sec left. 21 secs will be added to its timer.
2) Shared and system CDs are most definitely not affected by CD recharge debuff affects like SNB. Ask around in OPvP for a demonstration; if I'm online (which I am at the time of writing) I can show you myself.
I just tested out with renim, and - surprise surprise - he's right. I popped an Emergency Power to Shields and a Tac Team - causing cooldowns on ST and my EPtS copy. When he subnuked me, there was no change to those two cooldowns - only TT and the first EPtS copy had their cooldowns increased.
An additional tidbit he gave was that both self-cooldown and shared-cooldown can exist, but STO only displays the longer one - like EPtS having been activated 35 seconds ago (10s self-cooldown remaining) and EPtE being activated (15s shared cooldown). So STO displays 15s cooldown on EPtS. However, you're hit with an SNB! In this case, SNB does not affect the shared cooldown, but it hits the self-cooldown, let's say by 170% (I know SNB doesn't work that way, but for the argument) - becoming 17s, which is what is now displayed!
Man, I love learning something new.
SNB is aux based so ....
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Anywho, a bit off-topic with all that, but still good to know.
Just joking, a round is usually 20s-60s.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Wrong; Double-tap HAS BECOME bad gameplay since LoR came with battlecloak, 5 tactical consoles, superior infiltrator, superior operative, elachi dual beam banks and duty officers with 35% shield bypass. Until that time Bird of Prey used it, but they had minus one tactical console and minus 6% Crth compared to Warbirds (Klingons also don't have space traits). BoP captains won't complain about the nerf (and it is a nerf caused by greed, at least Cryptic must asume some responsability for the power creep) since they already use torpedos.
But it's not the double Beam Overload nerf that bothers me; it's the 5 seconds discussion. In case you forgot, there's a whole class called Raider, that hasn't yet been deleted. It stil exists and one of the purposes of this class is actually to have a chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window. My questions is : will that chance be totaly eliminated in future updates ?
Is it bad gameplay? Ask your self what the current meta game is at the moment to need to double tap.
Double tapping is skillful in premades and often difficult, insta popping people in Kerrat whil engaging borg doesn't count and shouldn't. It takes more 5 secs to kill someone. You failed to take into account the minute or so prepping the target, watching for his buffs, coordination e.t.c.
the execution may be quick but the coordination even longer. You can kill with a all cannon setup in a premade, just use SNB.
Ask yourself also will 5sec vaping still happen.. (the answer to this will be yes), and more people will still be crying out for nerfs, o a 4dhc crf3 killed me... nerf it.
You have to adapt your build to the current or future meta game or get left behind
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
My 3 tactical consoles Fleet Norgh needs double tap to strip one side of the shilelds so i could get in some torps. Fleet Dhelan/Fleet Ha'feh with 5 tactical consoles, extra 6 crth, 3x BO doffs, elachi DBB doesn even need torps; or stuns, or holds ; accx3 and maybe the nukara console nulifies APO3 defense . TT, no shield utility.
Oh, people will stil get killed under 5 seconds.
I will repeat some points in case you have not read my entire last post:
"Cryptic must asume some responsability for the power creep"
"Raider... It stil exists... purpose.. to have a chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window "
"will that chance (chance to get kills in that 5 seconds window) be totaly eliminated in future updates ?"
well the simple answer will be No to all since cryptic has no interest in any of them except to nerf for the 'casual' player
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
The D'Kora EMP burst being affected by A2B has been known about for ages now. Seems everyone knows about it apart from you. Pathetic really.
Insulting Hawk isn't going to help our case.
becus liek ghe sais, hes a noob dev. literally no memory or care about thow the game started or developed. he comes in and says "HEY WTF PEOPLE ARE DYING! NOT COOL! MUST NERF !" then leaves to go back to whatever bs TRIBBLE he does normally. i cant reiterate hpow patheitc, uninformed, and silly looking the dev responses have been on this issue. really really sad.
nooby TRIBBLE dev, the game being good "predated your tenure"
tldr. ive got 34 boffs and a myriad of on the fly setups. you are a noob. you know nothign of the game andnever will. i decided to just keep it to myself. the next op thing when u die, and it doent show in the logs, and u dont know... u can spend hours figuring it out on your own.
LOL, it's true I am a noob. Though you keep getting blown up by a noob, so what does that say about you, Maestro Mini?
Can't even remember the last time you managed to beat me, Mini, regress much? On the other hand, I can't recall the last time when you managed to survive your own ambush against me. Why is that, Maestro?
So maybe you should try to prove it on the battlefield through actions as opposed to talking tough like a kitty hawk?
BTW, making up something on the fly is not going to work. Show me you actually have a strategy that doesn't involve exploit, broken toys (e.g. 50 sec Graviton Pulse) and etc. because well, without it, you ain't going anywhere, that much is certain.
u have bad memory. but im not liek you or your kind, so i ownt post videos here to shame you liek u have doen to my fleet abnd friends. truth is you ARE a noob. a new player with no respect for the games tradtitions orthose who have come before you. your just one of the many nerfcriers who ruin games everywhere. u thought one shot with tricobalt was an exploit. not worth your time? thansk for post ur idiocy and condescending tone is recorded in perpetuity
considering these two threads...
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=857471
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=857441
did you seriously just call him a nerf crier?
LOL
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