If the problem is people not completing it, then instead of a cooldown, why not just require full completion for any rewards. Eliminate sector block rewards and increase the final reward to, say, 1 million EC.
This Just make it give out one massive reward at the end of completing it rather then per sector
The damage to the economy is already done, removing sources of EC now isn't going to make it better, it's going to make it a lot worse. Do you know anything about economics?
Best said response yet, idiots who don't grasp the concept of someone making less money and not getting any discounts themselves adds to one thing. INFLATION plain and simple, just like the real world economy being in a recession do you see everything coming down in price? NO, it has only gotten worse as people will inflate the cost of everything to make up for their losses, and unlike real life we can't simply fire people to make more money, so instead we have to inflate sellables to make up for it. TY cryptic you for helping to once again prove why I will never purchase a subscription from the likes of this company.
I wish people would stop throwing "3 mil" around the thread. That may have been so, for those using the exploit, but there were legitimate ways to do it more than once (legitimate meaning not an exploit) which netted you only half of that amount.
Seriously!? It didn't need nerfed. Playing it legitimately and doing it four times in the hour only got you around 1.4 Mil... Considering I spend around 4 million a day on EC products for fleet upgrades, three rep systems, new weapons from exchange etc, that's really not a huge amount of money and I did have to fly around in circles for an hour to obtain it, not like the old Foundry missions where people just wondered off and came back an hour later with a million EC for literally doing nothing.
An update -- the change was unfortunately missing from Tribble and Holodeck patch notes. I've added it to yesterday's Holodeck patch notes now. We apologize that it was missing.
Please keep feedback constructive in this thread so that I may pass it along for consideration.
EDIT: It was changed to close an exploit, but we will still consider your constructive feedback.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Some of us were able to do the quest legitimately and still be able to do more than one round in an hour. So maybe you should change the cooldown timer to 15 minutes (I don't know of anyone able to do the full tour too much faster than that) and add a drop timer of 4 hours that only takes effect if you drop the mission before completion. This way you close the exploit without overly effecting those of us who were doing the quest the way it was intended.
How about actually running STFs and other missions on elite? They are much more difficult and don't offer NEARLY as much as 3+ mil an hour unless a player gets a lucky drop.
I get to choose what I do with my in-game time.
But I asked you something else.
What was stopping YOU from doing it?
Lots and lots of exploits have been left open for a year or more - this is not the first - the console clickie foundry exploit was open for a long time before they fixed it.
Athough i wondered about the economy in my last thread about the new dilithium mining making $20 million EC consoles that used to come from drops or expensive crafting - practically useless and obsolete.
The military holding will offer tactical consoles that will make the exchange traded ones obsolete as well - sell them while you still can!!
Seriously!? It didn't need nerfed. Playing it legitimately and doing it four times in the hour only got you around 1.4 Mil... Considering I spend around 4 million a day on EC products for fleet upgrades, three rep systems, new weapons from exchange etc, that's really not a huge amount of money and I did have to fly around in circles for an hour to obtain it, not like the old Foundry missions where people just wondered off and came back an hour later with a million EC for literally doing nothing.
Totally agreed.
Any way it's put, the exchange is NOT the answer, because it runs on EC. And EC was genereated by, guess what, Tour the Universe.
2) Players making that much EC in one hour were gaining a huge advantage in EC over players that were not. When a player who doesn't run the tour visits the exchange, they notice that they cannot afford items on it while the player who does run it could afford items. This is because items were priced based on assuming that players were running the tour and gaining that much EC.
You realize how stupid that makes you sound, right?
"Players making that much dilithium by running STFs were gaining a huge advantage over the players that were not."
"Hey, there's a fast way to make in EC. I don't want to do it. WAAAAAH THOSE OTHER PLAYERS HAVE MORE EC THAN ME!!!"
You don't typically see players complaining about the dilithium that other players made through faster means. Just because someone decides that the only way he's going to make dilithium is through Satellite Repair doesn't mean that a person that mines twice as much dilithium from the asteroid daily is doing anything wrong.
As a consequence of how this and many other major things were communicated, I will no longer be
- buying Zen
- exchanging dill for Zen on the exchange
- spending any of the remaining Zen I have
- buying items on the exchange that required someone to spend Zen to acquire them in the first place
I'm sure some of the lifeless people were able to run Tour every time it was on, I'm on break so I was able to fit a few in, but once the next term starts I'll be lucky to have fit one a week, not to mention everyone who works. The EC I earned had to last and with the rep system most of it went to consumables. If i have a fixed hour or two every other day I have to spend it grinding in the foundry to pay for the items I need for my (since the rep system now solo fleet) and my own rep on 3 feds and now 2 roms. With tour we had options, If I wanted to play but was to tired from work or school I could just cruse the galaxy and get rewarded for playing the game. Now I have to grind... and that's it.
Those complaining about the exchange, do what I do and throw things on there at realistic prices, I add 5-10% to what an NPC will give me and if people have it at something ridiculous don't buy it, change your difficulty to elite and try to earn it and sell your items at a reasonable price. The economy isn't going to fix itself by cutting income or complaining, we have to make an active effort to fix it,
2) Players making that much EC in one hour were gaining a huge advantage in EC over players that were not. When a player who doesn't run the tour visits the exchange, they notice that they cannot afford items on it while the player who does run it could afford items. This is because items were priced based on assuming that players were running the tour and gaining that much EC.
This is so asinine that I don't know where or how to begin to reply.
So, let me get this straight: for you it is wrong that a player who goes out of their way to obtain the means required to purchase goods, has an advantage over other players who can't or won't work as hard to obtain the same READILY AVAILABLE means to purchase whatever they need/want.
NEWS FLASH: it is called CAPITALISM, which is what the game's economy is based on. You gotta make money to acquire the goods the are sold/bought in the market. You want stuff? You work your butt off for it. You want the GOOD stuff? You work your butt off even harder for it. That's how it works.
Oh, I'm sorry... You can't buy stuff at the exchange because you don't have enough EC? Well, GET OFF YOUR BUTT AND GO MAKE THE EC. Period. You don't punish those who do work for it.
I'll grant that the Short Tour was an exploit. Fine. Don't put a stupid 4 hour cooldown. Simply fix the mission so it can't be exploited. Before I found out about the Short Tour, I could easily make four full "official" laps, which would net me 1.4 EC. Now with the cooldown we're down to ONE LAP per event, which is only around 350K EC. I can make that running Mirror Event. Why bother with the Tour now?
This nerf is a hard blow below the waist. Not cool at all.
How about actually running STFs and other missions on elite? They are much more difficult and don't offer NEARLY as much as 3+ mil an hour unless a player gets a lucky drop.
Elite STF grants Omega Marks, dilithium, usually at LEAST a rare drop, or BNP, plus drops through the mission. You *MUST* have dilith and marks to get Omega/Maco gear, and dilith for personal rep and fleet systems, to get the best gear in game, which you cannot get without 1. Marks of the appropriate nature, and 2. Dilithium.
So the mission has its own reward, as well, and is arguably more valuable.
An update -- the change was unfortunately missing from Tribble and Holodeck patch notes. I've added it to yesterday's Holodeck patch notes now. We apologize that it was missing.
Please keep feedback constructive in this thread so that I may pass it along for consideration.
EDIT: It was changed to close an exploit, but we will still consider your constructive feedback.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Ok, could you elaborate how the "system" was being hurt by what Cryptic has considered an "exploit"?
Star Trek Battles Channel - Play Star Trek like they did in the series!Avatar: pinterest-com/pin/14003448816884219Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home' SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
You realize how stupid that makes you sound, right?
"Players making that much dilithium by running STFs were gaining a huge advantage over the players that were not."
"Hey, there's a fast way to make in EC. I don't want to do it. WAAAAAH THOSE OTHER PLAYERS HAVE MORE EC THAN ME!!!"
You don't typically see players complaining about the dilithium that other players made through faster means. Just because someone decides that the only way he's going to make dilithium is through Satellite Repair doesn't mean that a person that mines twice as much dilithium from the asteroid daily is doing anything wrong.
^^ THIS!
As long as it was available to EVERYONE and it was DAMN HARD to do, I don't see where the "unfair advantage" came from. It's just spite and hypocrisy at it's finest. Thats all.
You realize how stupid that makes you sound, right?
"Players making that much dilithium by running STFs were gaining a huge advantage over the players that were not."
"Hey, there's a fast way to make in EC. I don't want to do it. WAAAAAH THOSE OTHER PLAYERS HAVE MORE EC THAN ME!!!"
You don't typically see players complaining about the dilithium that other players made through faster means. Just because someone decides that the only way he's going to make dilithium is through Satellite Repair doesn't mean that a person that mines twice as much dilithium from the asteroid daily is doing anything wrong.
There is a dil per day cap, and no EC per day cap.
Ok, could you elaborate how the "system" was being hurt by what Cryptic has considered an "exploit"?
I would be very much interested in that too. Especially since this "exploit" has been around for a long time and was even featured in forums and wikis.
Elite STF grants Omega Marks, dilithium, usually at LEAST a rare drop, or BNP, plus drops through the mission. You *MUST* have dilith and marks to get Omega/Maco gear, and dilith for personal rep and fleet systems, to get the best gear in game, which you cannot get without 1. Marks of the appropriate nature, and 2. Dilithium.
So the mission has its own reward, as well, and is arguably more valuable.
Refined Dil is capped per day, whereas there is no EC cap.
The rewards from STF do not equal 3 mil in one hour.
Cryptic, please be more creative than to give EC for ZERO RISK events like this...
Since it's an exploration event why not give exploration doff exp as a reward for completing each tour?
Providing EC for this is just silly, imo... especially 3 MIL!!!!
Stop posting if you don't know the facts.
1, it does reward exploration CXP.
2, the 3mil is only from people using an exploit, the legitimate mission only gets you 1.4 mil if you can run it four times in the hour using borg/maco engines and QSD with reduced cool down.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
At the moment, there are only two ways to generate respectable amount Energy Credits from the system, to put into the in-game economy.
1) Loot Drops being sold to NPC Vendors
2) Tour The Universe.
Other sources are not at all efficient, or depend on the exchange.
Now that this Nerf has happened, there is going to be less Energy Credits in the in-game economy. Thus causing the exchange prices fall, and effectively crashing the player market.
Welcome to Black Thursday Peeps...
if exchange prices fall as you say then you wont need as many Energy credits so it fixes itself. just look at the US and other bailout countries. throwing more money into an economy only inflates prices as the money is devalued.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
if exchange prices fall as you say then you wont need as many Energy credits so it fixes itself. just look at the US and other bailout countries. throwing more money into an economy only inflates prices as the money is devalued.
An update -- the change was unfortunately missing from Tribble and Holodeck patch notes. I've added it to yesterday's Holodeck patch notes now. We apologize that it was missing.
Please keep feedback constructive in this thread so that I may pass it along for consideration.
EDIT: It was changed to close an exploit, but we will still consider your constructive feedback.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
So let me make sure I completely understand the situation.
The Tour has remained UNCHANGED FOR YEARS. Over that time new ships have been added for sector space travel (Vesta, Odyssey, etc.), faster engines (Borg, Omega, etc), and warp cores with 5 new modifiers for sector space travel to choose from. A trait was recently added to reduce transwarp times too.
Cryptic has only added things in game to make it faster.
So now, all of a sudden, Cryptic decided that their most docile event in game had an exploit? And to top it off, the measure that Cryptic took was to nuke the entire event and then say "Whoops forgot to tell ya - Surprise!"
Unbelievable would an understatement.
I would like a refund for the Vesta which I bought specifically for this event. The ship has been nerfed beyond reason for Tour in breaking its slipstream between sectors and now removing any chance of running Tour more than once. Please let me know who to contact.
I can do an entire route in about 8 minutes. Even a 10 minute cooldown is still an unacceptable nerf to the event, and I would still ask for a refund on the Vesta.
I think I know what "exploit" you mean. If you want to close it, a five minute cd on the event is enough to do so without ruining the event for those of us running it legitimately. That is a long enough cooldown to prevent the exploit, but still short enough as to not make all the shiny toys that have been added in the game become completely useless. A 4 hour cd is ridiculous and punishes everyone.
Signed - an incredibly upset PAYING CUSTOMER AND LIFER.
Comments
This Just make it give out one massive reward at the end of completing it rather then per sector
Best said response yet, idiots who don't grasp the concept of someone making less money and not getting any discounts themselves adds to one thing. INFLATION plain and simple, just like the real world economy being in a recession do you see everything coming down in price? NO, it has only gotten worse as people will inflate the cost of everything to make up for their losses, and unlike real life we can't simply fire people to make more money, so instead we have to inflate sellables to make up for it. TY cryptic you for helping to once again prove why I will never purchase a subscription from the likes of this company.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Seriously!? It didn't need nerfed. Playing it legitimately and doing it four times in the hour only got you around 1.4 Mil... Considering I spend around 4 million a day on EC products for fleet upgrades, three rep systems, new weapons from exchange etc, that's really not a huge amount of money and I did have to fly around in circles for an hour to obtain it, not like the old Foundry missions where people just wondered off and came back an hour later with a million EC for literally doing nothing.
This would work great. It'd stop the people using the exploit, but still allow those of us doing up to four runs in the hour legitimately to do so.
Some of us were able to do the quest legitimately and still be able to do more than one round in an hour. So maybe you should change the cooldown timer to 15 minutes (I don't know of anyone able to do the full tour too much faster than that) and add a drop timer of 4 hours that only takes effect if you drop the mission before completion. This way you close the exploit without overly effecting those of us who were doing the quest the way it was intended.
I get to choose what I do with my in-game time.
But I asked you something else.
What was stopping YOU from doing it?
Athough i wondered about the economy in my last thread about the new dilithium mining making $20 million EC consoles that used to come from drops or expensive crafting - practically useless and obsolete.
The military holding will offer tactical consoles that will make the exchange traded ones obsolete as well - sell them while you still can!!
Totally agreed.
Any way it's put, the exchange is NOT the answer, because it runs on EC. And EC was genereated by, guess what, Tour the Universe.
You realize how stupid that makes you sound, right?
"Players making that much dilithium by running STFs were gaining a huge advantage over the players that were not."
"Hey, there's a fast way to make in EC. I don't want to do it. WAAAAAH THOSE OTHER PLAYERS HAVE MORE EC THAN ME!!!"
You don't typically see players complaining about the dilithium that other players made through faster means. Just because someone decides that the only way he's going to make dilithium is through Satellite Repair doesn't mean that a person that mines twice as much dilithium from the asteroid daily is doing anything wrong.
- buying Zen
- exchanging dill for Zen on the exchange
- spending any of the remaining Zen I have
- buying items on the exchange that required someone to spend Zen to acquire them in the first place
For full details please read this post http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=11592181&postcount=630
It used to be a thread until it got merged to minimize the attention it receives. So much for free speech.
Those complaining about the exchange, do what I do and throw things on there at realistic prices, I add 5-10% to what an NPC will give me and if people have it at something ridiculous don't buy it, change your difficulty to elite and try to earn it and sell your items at a reasonable price. The economy isn't going to fix itself by cutting income or complaining, we have to make an active effort to fix it,
This is so asinine that I don't know where or how to begin to reply.
So, let me get this straight: for you it is wrong that a player who goes out of their way to obtain the means required to purchase goods, has an advantage over other players who can't or won't work as hard to obtain the same READILY AVAILABLE means to purchase whatever they need/want.
NEWS FLASH: it is called CAPITALISM, which is what the game's economy is based on. You gotta make money to acquire the goods the are sold/bought in the market. You want stuff? You work your butt off for it. You want the GOOD stuff? You work your butt off even harder for it. That's how it works.
Oh, I'm sorry... You can't buy stuff at the exchange because you don't have enough EC? Well, GET OFF YOUR BUTT AND GO MAKE THE EC. Period. You don't punish those who do work for it.
I'll grant that the Short Tour was an exploit. Fine. Don't put a stupid 4 hour cooldown. Simply fix the mission so it can't be exploited. Before I found out about the Short Tour, I could easily make four full "official" laps, which would net me 1.4 EC. Now with the cooldown we're down to ONE LAP per event, which is only around 350K EC. I can make that running Mirror Event. Why bother with the Tour now?
This nerf is a hard blow below the waist. Not cool at all.
That is all.
Elite STF grants Omega Marks, dilithium, usually at LEAST a rare drop, or BNP, plus drops through the mission. You *MUST* have dilith and marks to get Omega/Maco gear, and dilith for personal rep and fleet systems, to get the best gear in game, which you cannot get without 1. Marks of the appropriate nature, and 2. Dilithium.
So the mission has its own reward, as well, and is arguably more valuable.
Ok, could you elaborate how the "system" was being hurt by what Cryptic has considered an "exploit"?
SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
^^ THIS!
As long as it was available to EVERYONE and it was DAMN HARD to do, I don't see where the "unfair advantage" came from. It's just spite and hypocrisy at it's finest. Thats all.
There is a dil per day cap, and no EC per day cap.
Since it's an exploration event why not give exploration doff exp as a reward for completing each tour?
Providing EC for this is just silly, imo... especially 3 MIL!!!!
I would be very much interested in that too. Especially since this "exploit" has been around for a long time and was even featured in forums and wikis.
Because an EC cap would be more stupid than this Tour nerf.
Refined Dil is capped per day, whereas there is no EC cap.
The rewards from STF do not equal 3 mil in one hour.
Stop posting if you don't know the facts.
1, it does reward exploration CXP.
2, the 3mil is only from people using an exploit, the legitimate mission only gets you 1.4 mil if you can run it four times in the hour using borg/maco engines and QSD with reduced cool down.
if exchange prices fall as you say then you wont need as many Energy credits so it fixes itself. just look at the US and other bailout countries. throwing more money into an economy only inflates prices as the money is devalued.
I think it's obvious to everyone now that you know nothing about the tour, STFs or the EC farming system in general, so why do you continue to post?
Truth. I like this nerf, so whatevs.
So let me make sure I completely understand the situation.
The Tour has remained UNCHANGED FOR YEARS. Over that time new ships have been added for sector space travel (Vesta, Odyssey, etc.), faster engines (Borg, Omega, etc), and warp cores with 5 new modifiers for sector space travel to choose from. A trait was recently added to reduce transwarp times too.
Cryptic has only added things in game to make it faster.
So now, all of a sudden, Cryptic decided that their most docile event in game had an exploit? And to top it off, the measure that Cryptic took was to nuke the entire event and then say "Whoops forgot to tell ya - Surprise!"
Unbelievable would an understatement.
I would like a refund for the Vesta which I bought specifically for this event. The ship has been nerfed beyond reason for Tour in breaking its slipstream between sectors and now removing any chance of running Tour more than once. Please let me know who to contact.
I can do an entire route in about 8 minutes. Even a 10 minute cooldown is still an unacceptable nerf to the event, and I would still ask for a refund on the Vesta.
I think I know what "exploit" you mean. If you want to close it, a five minute cd on the event is enough to do so without ruining the event for those of us running it legitimately. That is a long enough cooldown to prevent the exploit, but still short enough as to not make all the shiny toys that have been added in the game become completely useless. A 4 hour cd is ridiculous and punishes everyone.
Signed - an incredibly upset PAYING CUSTOMER AND LIFER.
The cap is how much you can make in an hour, every sixteen hours. It's a challenge to maximize the amount you can earn.