And perhaps Bran is inappropriately using a word that's going to generate more heat than light?
Using exploit as a term for all uses of content contrary to design is just going to muddy the waters. But hey, it's their forum, they can sow confusion if they wish...
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
At the moment, there are only two ways to generate respectable amount Energy Credits from the system, to put into the in-game economy.
1) Loot Drops being sold to NPC Vendors
2) Tour The Universe.
Other sources are not at all efficient, or depend on the exchange.
Now that this Nerf has happened, there is going to be less Energy Credits in the in-game economy. Thus causing the exchange prices fall, and effectively crashing the player market.
Welcome to Black Thursday Peeps...
You mean playing the game and getting a good drop occasionally to sell on the exchange? Oh, how broken that is... what will we do now?
EXACTLY prices will fall... because they are over-inflated at the moment.
For instance. If I want to sell a purple mk xii console I would price it based on the number of tours it would take to purchase the item, not a fair price, but a price based on tours that is so stupid.............
I'd say 15 minute CD. I legitimately ran it 4 times in an hour using borg/MACO engines + driver coil and slipstream with my best run being in 12 mins. It took the full hour.
I know what people were doing to exploit the event and agree that it needed to be fixed but once per event makes tour the uniiverse completely useless.
If the CD isn't reduced to at most 15 minutes then this is just going to be another event i skip over when i'm looking through the hourly events.
An update -- the change was unfortunately missing from Tribble and Holodeck patch notes. I've added it to yesterday's Holodeck patch notes now. We apologize that it was missing.
Please keep feedback constructive in this thread so that I may pass it along for consideration.
EDIT: It was changed to close an exploit, but we will still consider your constructive feedback.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
I don't think that word means what you think it means. Sorry I had to.
People with 5 toons or more could make over 16 mil in 5 hours... totally imbalanced and it punishes players who DON'T do it by flooding EC in to the economy.
Three questions:
1) How exactly could they make 16 mil in 5 hours?
The Tour is a ONE-HOUR event. After the first ~3 mil with the first toon, which takes about the WHOLE HOUR the event is on, there's no way to run the Tour again with another toon until the event is back on, which usually is every ~15 hours. So you can only make about 3 million EC A DAY.
Seems to me you have never done the Tour yourself, so you don't know what you're talking.
2) How does "flooding the economy with EC" (snark) punishes players who don't run the Tour?
Again: you could only make 3 million EC A DAY. That's about two purple Mk XII DHCs (if you're lucky, depending on energy type and availability) and then bam! you're back to broke. Where's the flooding and where's the punishing?
3) Are you trying to troll this thread? I think you are.
Why not add a 15 minute cool down, instead of a 4 hour one? I mean there were legitimate ways to do four runs in an hour, using Borg engines and QSD running the full route you could do it four times... I don't see the need for this 4 hour cool down, it's just going to p*ss off a lot of players.
15 minutes would stop the people who were doing one or two blocks then dropping it, but still allow the people who were not cheating to do it more than once. I enjoyed my little hour long tour through sector space, listening to music, setting up DOFF missions.
Though to be fair, the people who were cheating through it probably also have a lot of alts, so this isn't even going to affect them. It's only really going to hurt the people who were doing it legitimately.
People with 5 toons or more could make over 16 mil in 5 hours... totally imbalanced and it punishes players who DON'T do it by flooding EC in to the economy.
Tour only ran for an hour, and you can only play one toon at a time, how did you come up with this statement?
The Tour is a ONE-HOUR event. After the first ~3 mil with the first toon, which takes about the WHOLE HOUR the event is on, there's no way to run the Tour again with another toon until the event is back on, which usually is every ~15 hours. So you can only make about 3 million EC A DAY.
Seems to me you have never done the Tour yourself, so you don't know what you're talking.
2) How does "flooding the economy with EC" (snark) punishes players who don't run the Tour?
Again: you could only make 3 million EC A DAY. That's about two purple Mk XII DHCs (if you're lucky, depending on energy type and availability) and then bam! you're back to broke. Where's the flooding and where's the punishing?
3) Are you trying to troll this thread? I think you are.
Cheers.
1) I was wrong.
2) Players making that much EC in one hour were gaining a huge advantage in EC over players that were not. When a player who doesn't run the tour visits the exchange, they notice that they cannot afford items on it while the player who does run it could afford items. This is because items were priced based on assuming that players were running the tour and gaining that much EC.
The Tour was hard work, an "exploit" makes things easier. This... running around in circles for a whole hour WAS NOT DAMN EASY.
Stop trying to make us racers look like scheming little cheaters that were getting away with it the easy way....
2) Players making that much EC in one hour were gaining a huge advantage in EC over players that were not. When a player who doesn't run the tour visits the exchange, they notice that they cannot afford items on it while the player who does run it could afford items. This is because items were priced based on assuming that players were running the tour and gaining that much EC.
This is based on the idea that the primary source of EC was this event. There is little evidence to support that contention.
Every mature MMO has sticker shock in the AH because of currency inflation. This is actually 'normal.'
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Simple fix: Give the payout when you turn the mission in, as opposed to each sector. No CD needed, no more exploit, either.
Everyone wins.
TBH I don't think that it should have such a large payout any way.... what is the payout per sector of the tour? Even by reducing the payout, this timer could be removed.
This is based on the idea that the primary source of EC was this event. There is little evidence to support that contention.
Every mature MMO has sticker shock in the AH because of currency inflation. This is actually 'normal.'
No it's not, it's based on the idea that A source of EC was the tour. While others who don't run it don't have that source... exploiters got an even larger advantage.
Wow, all you complainers about some stupid event that alot of people dont even do? LOL. just buy zen and sell keys if you want quick EC's.
If you dont wanna buy zen, then goto your fleet starbase, buy white quality DOFF's and sell them on the exchange.
There are plenty of way to make money other than this dumb event. I have never done it, and I will never do it. its a waste of time for what? a couple million EC at best? Thats laughable
The Tour was hard work, an "exploit" makes things easier. This... running around in circles for a whole hour WAS NOT DAMN EASY.
Stop trying to make us racers look like scheming little cheaters that were getting away with it the easy way....
Sadly, now that Bran has (imo, foolishly) used that word, we can now spend the next ten pages debating what constitutes an exploit.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Wow, all you complainers about some stupid event that alot of people dont even do? LOL. just buy zen and sell keys if you want quick EC's.
If you dont wanna buy zen, then goto your fleet starbase, buy white quality DOFF's and sell them on the exchange.
There are plenty of way to make money other than this dumb event. I have never done it, and I will never do it. its a waste of time for what? a couple million EC at best? Thats laughable
Up to 3.6 mil EC in an hour I've heard... every day. That's an extra 21 mil or more a week per player who ran it.
No it's not, it's based on the idea that A source of EC was the tour. While others who don't run it don't have that source... exploiters got an even larger advantage.
Study more economics.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
The prices on the exchange are based on supply and demand, not the 3 mil ec a player can make on the "Old Tour". Items fall in prices because of game changes and other available items...ie. the dilithium mine neutromium armor.
Nerfing the tour is lame and to those who are upset about the exploit of running 4 sectors, get over it. It didn't hurt you one bit.
why not drop it as a stupid event and just make it a daily. and it frees up an event slot, for more things like mirror universe or such. like they need to roll vault shuttle mission into the rep event.
No it's not, it's based on the idea that A source of EC was the tour. While others who don't run it don't have that source... exploiters got an even larger advantage.
And what exactly was the thing that stopped them from running it?
Does that mean that whatever thing you are doing that I am not should be closed as well?
And what exactly was the thing that stopped them from running it?
Does that mean that whatever thing you are doing that I am not should be closed as well?
How about actually running STFs and other missions on elite? They are much more difficult and don't offer NEARLY as much as 3+ mil an hour unless a player gets a lucky drop.
If the problem is people not completing it, then instead of a cooldown, why not just require full completion for any rewards. Eliminate sector block rewards and increase the final reward to, say, 1 million EC. Then fast ships can still get their 3 mil, and the exploit is not longer useful.
Zinc: The universe of Star Trek Online is shaped and changed by the actions of the players...expect to see new planets and races discovered that were unknown the last time you logged in."
EDIT: It was changed to close an exploit, but we will still consider your constructive feedback.
I'm not upset about this particular change (though it's one less semi-fun thing to do), but I am upset about this attitude. I, personally, have known about this "exploit" for at least a year.
A. YEAR.
That is a long time for an "exploit" to exist. This has been advertised on the forums on several occasions, in in-game chat, and even on the wiki! This is not an exploit, it's working as intended. It just seems that, for some reason, this week it became Inconvenient to have the Tour be a source of EC. Just like the infamous Clickies became Inconvenient when the rep system got started, when before they were all but encouraged by the devs (they knew what they were doing when they attached Fleet Marks to that mission).
Wow, all you complainers about some stupid event that alot of people dont even do? LOL. just buy zen and sell keys if you want quick EC's.
If you dont wanna buy zen, then goto your fleet starbase, buy white quality DOFF's and sell them on the exchange.
There are plenty of way to make money other than this dumb event. I have never done it, and I will never do it. its a waste of time for what? a couple million EC at best? Thats laughable
Buying Keys from the Z-Store, then selling them on the exchange depends on someone having the EC to buy them.
Less EC on the market, harder to sell, and the lower the price the keys sell at.
All your "solutions" depend on a player driven economy that depends on a solid input of EC as a result of players earning from the system itself, not other players.
I'm the guy that uses unconventional builds, and don't fall to the normal. I also don't believe in "No-BS" TRIBBLE, it's in the game, it's ready to be used. Think Clint Eastwood in Heartbreak Ridge.
Comments
And perhaps Bran is inappropriately using a word that's going to generate more heat than light?
Using exploit as a term for all uses of content contrary to design is just going to muddy the waters. But hey, it's their forum, they can sow confusion if they wish...
You mean playing the game and getting a good drop occasionally to sell on the exchange? Oh, how broken that is... what will we do now?
EXACTLY prices will fall... because they are over-inflated at the moment.
For instance. If I want to sell a purple mk xii console I would price it based on the number of tours it would take to purchase the item, not a fair price, but a price based on tours that is so stupid.............
I know what people were doing to exploit the event and agree that it needed to be fixed but once per event makes tour the uniiverse completely useless.
If the CD isn't reduced to at most 15 minutes then this is just going to be another event i skip over when i'm looking through the hourly events.
I don't think that word means what you think it means. Sorry I had to.
STOP the free EC.
Either nerf the reward and remove the timer or keep the timer.
Three questions:
1) How exactly could they make 16 mil in 5 hours?
The Tour is a ONE-HOUR event. After the first ~3 mil with the first toon, which takes about the WHOLE HOUR the event is on, there's no way to run the Tour again with another toon until the event is back on, which usually is every ~15 hours. So you can only make about 3 million EC A DAY.
Seems to me you have never done the Tour yourself, so you don't know what you're talking.
2) How does "flooding the economy with EC" (snark) punishes players who don't run the Tour?
Again: you could only make 3 million EC A DAY. That's about two purple Mk XII DHCs (if you're lucky, depending on energy type and availability) and then bam! you're back to broke. Where's the flooding and where's the punishing?
3) Are you trying to troll this thread? I think you are.
Cheers.
Nerf the reward and remove the timer, fixed.
Without nerfing the reward, the timer must stay.
1) I was wrong.
2) Players making that much EC in one hour were gaining a huge advantage in EC over players that were not. When a player who doesn't run the tour visits the exchange, they notice that they cannot afford items on it while the player who does run it could afford items. This is because items were priced based on assuming that players were running the tour and gaining that much EC.
3) Nope. This is my true opinion.
You're correct, and I was incorrect.
The only way for what I said to be true is for a player to own multiple accounts.
Everyone wins.
No it does not.
The Tour was hard work, an "exploit" makes things easier. This... running around in circles for a whole hour WAS NOT DAMN EASY.
Stop trying to make us racers look like scheming little cheaters that were getting away with it the easy way....
^ Perfect solution.
This is based on the idea that the primary source of EC was this event. There is little evidence to support that contention.
Every mature MMO has sticker shock in the AH because of currency inflation. This is actually 'normal.'
TBH I don't think that it should have such a large payout any way.... what is the payout per sector of the tour? Even by reducing the payout, this timer could be removed.
No it's not, it's based on the idea that A source of EC was the tour. While others who don't run it don't have that source... exploiters got an even larger advantage.
If you dont wanna buy zen, then goto your fleet starbase, buy white quality DOFF's and sell them on the exchange.
There are plenty of way to make money other than this dumb event. I have never done it, and I will never do it. its a waste of time for what? a couple million EC at best? Thats laughable
Sadly, now that Bran has (imo, foolishly) used that word, we can now spend the next ten pages debating what constitutes an exploit.
Up to 3.6 mil EC in an hour I've heard... every day. That's an extra 21 mil or more a week per player who ran it.
Study more economics.
Nerfing the tour is lame and to those who are upset about the exploit of running 4 sectors, get over it. It didn't hurt you one bit.
And what exactly was the thing that stopped them from running it?
Does that mean that whatever thing you are doing that I am not should be closed as well?
3 million / 21 million a week? thats it?
lol, thats chump change
There are much more difficult activities in this game that do not offer such a lucrative award without getting a lucky drop.
How about actually running STFs and other missions on elite? They are much more difficult and don't offer NEARLY as much as 3+ mil an hour unless a player gets a lucky drop.
I'm not upset about this particular change (though it's one less semi-fun thing to do), but I am upset about this attitude. I, personally, have known about this "exploit" for at least a year.
A. YEAR.
That is a long time for an "exploit" to exist. This has been advertised on the forums on several occasions, in in-game chat, and even on the wiki! This is not an exploit, it's working as intended. It just seems that, for some reason, this week it became Inconvenient to have the Tour be a source of EC. Just like the infamous Clickies became Inconvenient when the rep system got started, when before they were all but encouraged by the devs (they knew what they were doing when they attached Fleet Marks to that mission).
Buying Keys from the Z-Store, then selling them on the exchange depends on someone having the EC to buy them.
Less EC on the market, harder to sell, and the lower the price the keys sell at.
All your "solutions" depend on a player driven economy that depends on a solid input of EC as a result of players earning from the system itself, not other players.