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Fleet warp/singularity cores: we need more options
warpangel
Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
OK, I've now seen the fleet cores. And I'm not impressed. The selection is extremely limited.
12 advanced warp cores
24 elite warp cores
18 advanced singularity cores
36 elite singularity cores
There are 2 different types of warp core and 3 different types of singularity core. So 6 advanced cores and 12 elite cores for each type. I'd guess the warp cores missing a type is probably a bug, but who knows.
It's clear the available cores have been decided randomly, with zero regard for even distribution of attributes. But 6 advanced and 12 elite cores per type is nowhere near enough for such a shotgun approach. For a perfect example of the result, there are only 3 warp cores that boost transwarp cooldown. All of them are Elite, all of them are the same type, all of them even have the same first modifier. You want a traswarp boost, it's an Elite Fleet Hyper-Charged Warp Core with [Eff] for you. No singularity cores boost it at all.
There are thousands of possible combinations for the cores, so it isn't possible to get them all in a standard shop interface. But the current selection is simply appalling. Seriously, 6 advanced cores per type, that isn't even enough to have one of each of the [X->Y] power transfer modifiers (there are 12 possibilities). And the situation with the transwarp boost is a bad joke.
Considering the extreme number of variations, it would be ideal to have a system for "custom building" the cores if possible. An NPC that asks the player to input each modifier in turn, then puts out the core that matches the player's selections.
But if that is not possible and we have to make do with a limited selection, there has to be much more of them and some attention needs to be put into making sure all the options are equally represented. Or maybe if you really like that shotgun approach, you could re-randomize the shop daily so we would at least have the chance to get the perfect core eventually.
P.S. singularity cores are being discriminated against. Warp cores have the full power bonus (+5 and +7.5) to both subsystems, but singularity cores only get +12.5 instead of +15 at full singularity meter. I sincerely hope this is not intentional.
12 advanced warp cores
24 elite warp cores
18 advanced singularity cores
36 elite singularity cores
There are 2 different types of warp core and 3 different types of singularity core. So 6 advanced cores and 12 elite cores for each type. I'd guess the warp cores missing a type is probably a bug, but who knows.
It's clear the available cores have been decided randomly, with zero regard for even distribution of attributes. But 6 advanced and 12 elite cores per type is nowhere near enough for such a shotgun approach. For a perfect example of the result, there are only 3 warp cores that boost transwarp cooldown. All of them are Elite, all of them are the same type, all of them even have the same first modifier. You want a traswarp boost, it's an Elite Fleet Hyper-Charged Warp Core with [Eff] for you. No singularity cores boost it at all.
There are thousands of possible combinations for the cores, so it isn't possible to get them all in a standard shop interface. But the current selection is simply appalling. Seriously, 6 advanced cores per type, that isn't even enough to have one of each of the [X->Y] power transfer modifiers (there are 12 possibilities). And the situation with the transwarp boost is a bad joke.
Considering the extreme number of variations, it would be ideal to have a system for "custom building" the cores if possible. An NPC that asks the player to input each modifier in turn, then puts out the core that matches the player's selections.
But if that is not possible and we have to make do with a limited selection, there has to be much more of them and some attention needs to be put into making sure all the options are equally represented. Or maybe if you really like that shotgun approach, you could re-randomize the shop daily so we would at least have the chance to get the perfect core eventually.
P.S. singularity cores are being discriminated against. Warp cores have the full power bonus (+5 and +7.5) to both subsystems, but singularity cores only get +12.5 instead of +15 at full singularity meter. I sincerely hope this is not intentional.
Post edited by warpangel on
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The dev's will never let players have that much freedom to custom build a warp core. Look at how they force players to divide skill points up between space and ground with no wiggle room. My Sci Character used to put a lot more skill points into space, and just enough for heals into ground. That was because Sci needed more points to make their skills more effective. Now I'm forced to put what I feel is too much into ground skills when all I really need is to boost my heals. That's a lot of wasted skill points... But like I said, the devs love to micro-manage the players so the small selection of warp cores is no surprise to me.
[/SIGPIC]
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
But yeah laughable at best. +2 to turning in slipstream drive ?
Of course the first thing you notice is the lack of any +max to weapons. That's what you know you can't take it seriously.
While my fleet was all wetting themselves over it I ridiculed the +max to engines...
Really, in your judgement there are more people who have max energy to engines than max weapons? Really?
I challenge the developers to produce 1 single guy from their office who has any kind of power to engines - forget 125.
Not to mention the mod I need which works with aux is not even in the game so yeah, terrific
Kinda like the whole [DMG]x3 nonsense for fleet weapons...the devs are FULLY ware that [DMG] is a [LOL] modifier in its' current form, so they use it as fodder for a 4th mod.
They specifically didn't make any +max power to weps because it'd be a prime choice for like 99% of the playerbase (well, maybe there are more torpboats and Aux DHC using people than 1%, but still not many).
On the other hand, I entirely agree with the OP, afaik there's not a single Fleet warpcore that would fit my needs. And with all the possibilities, there aren't that many on the exchange either. For now I'll just keep using cheap green Mk XI cores.
There definitely should be more choices for the Fleet cores, with somehow more evenly distributed modifiers.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
I'm glad you're not a developer because if they added +max weapons then every other type of warp core would become obsolete.
And the warp cores don't just add to max, they also add power when its low. The lower the set power the more power it receives, and that is the purpose of the +engine warp cores.
Like I said show me 1 person in the entire game that has a build with max engine power.
It's up to the developers to balance things - obviously if you want 135 weapon power the other cores would have to make up for it with their stats.
All I am saying is the cost of unlocking it vs the usefulness of it is a joke.
And, compared to other areas of STO building your ship there is zero customiaztion.
Its also one of the bulkier item types that fill the almost-good ones up
Other then that, why burn so much Dil and Fleet Mark and other resources for something I kan take on and off my ship when needed that runs around 30~70k on the Exchange ? I just dont get it, the Dev that did the list was on that lack-o-sleep SMH
-V
Saying that, I also agree with the decision to keep the [w->x] modifiers out. Just so the normal warp cores can remain somewhat competitive. It's far from perfect but I guess Cryptic needs to just work with the broken tool they have and make the best of it.
In either event I won't be getting one. Recently I've developed quite a distaste for elite fleet gear, the power creep is getting a bit ridiculous now.
There should be some way to get every one of the combinations for warp cores/singularity cores/bridge officers. It's a shame that the current solution seems to just let a random number generator spit out a few combinations and call it a day.
They only keep out W->A on advanced level, W->S and W->E exist. And that doesn't keep the normal warp cores competitive, it only screws over people with builds who need a warp core of that type, because everyone else can have far superior warp cores.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Funny, that's a mod I wouldn't mind getting (honestly, the +skill bonuses are those I care the least about on the cores). Only goes to show how much variety is needed.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
They are in the Dilithium Mine if you have upgraded it and its Development Tier to 1.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Hmmm I wonder, if adding a + to weap pwr mod makes all other cores obsolete I'm curious about what that says about underlying balance in general in this game? Just sayen
They did not decide to "keep the [W->X] modifiers out." There is no [W->A] in Advanced but there is [W->S] and [W->E] and Elite has them all. In fact, [W->S] is the most common at both levels.
The available cores were obviously picked randomly, and [W->A] didn't make it to Advanced. Neither did three others. The only one that isn't available at all is [A->S].
Advanced cores have:
[W->S] x 3
[S->W] x 2
[E->S] x 2
[W->E] x 1
[S->A] x 1
[E->A] x 1
[A->E] x 1
[A->W] x 1
[W->A] x 0
[S->E] x 0
[E->W] x 0
[A->S] x 0
And Elite cores have:
[W->S] x 4
[A->W] x 4
[S->W] x 3
[W->A] x 2
[S->A] x 2
[E->S] x 2
[E->A] x 2
[A->E] x 2
[W->E] x 1
[S->E] x 1
[E->W] x 1
[A->S] x 0
Not exactly even distribution is it? We're lucky the most common ones are at least popular ones like [W->S] and [S->W].
At the very least, every option for each modifier (except maybe the last one, see below) should appear at least once in each type of core. That means an absolute minimum of 12 cores per type (because there are 12 power transfer options). Preferably more, so there could actually be some choice involved.
As for the last modifier, I think all fleet cores should have [Trans] because the slipstream boosts are mostly useless. If you need one for Tour of the Universe, you might as well use a cheap green Mk XI with [Coi] since the other parameters don't matter at all.
Doesn't anybody understand no matter how much you complain, Cryptic won't change it? They obviously have been working on the fleet cores since LoR came out, releasing it with the new DIL mine just at the perfect time to make more money.
What in the hell makes you think they are going to listen to you and add more cores, while they could easily release more DLC with "Super Elite Warp Cores!!!".
Like does everyone on these forums enjoy beating a dead horse now?
Cryptic. Doesn't. Care.
Everything that is done, is done to make the max profit. Believe me, they know how to sale an item.
People contentiously play this game, and continuously complain. Just quit for god sakes. This game has become more of a business then a fun game. Sorry
I am calling it right now, and favoring this thread: THe newer "better" cores will be only obtainable through the Lobi stores, Zen store, or when you buy newer ships that have "special" cores on it.
Guarantee it.
There were Fleet Advanced weapons added after the fact (mostly TRIBBLE people who got Fleet weapons before), most notably Accx2 ones.
So there's hope they add another batch of cores as well, which would be great.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
You realise that this suggests that the mods are NOT random?
So basically you have to buy a core that boosts the 2 areas you don't want, very logical, and expect a 4-8 point total power increase instead of the advertised 15 (+bonus at low levels)!!!
Actually, it doesn't. If you take a random sample from a uniform distribution, the sample usually appears "clumpy". In any case, I agree that the modifiers were not chosen randomly in the strict sense. I would say they were chosen by human with a few contraints, but otherwise arbitrarily. That is how the traits for the embassy boffs were chosen. See the following posts by a dev:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8233721&postcount=75
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8239551&postcount=79
If they did allow us to build our own Fleet Singularity Cores, mine would look something like this:
Engines-Shields [SingA] [Oload] [Wcap] [Trans]
Now is that so hard?
This would not necessarily be a bad thing - it would provide options for those without access to fleet stores of the appropriate tier. In many ways, I'd prefer it...
If i spend 65K fleet credits and 30K dilithium on an item; it had better *not* be competitive with something i can get on the exchange for six figures.
My main build is an aux-2-bat Vesta. I can throw out a 15 to 18K point hull or shield heal, hit a2b II and then start attacking with 125 each in weapon, shield, and engine power. I can repeat this cycle every 15 seconds or so.
I prefer to use warp cores with (indeed, the one i have now comes with) the +5 max to aux power, as those 5 additional points translate into something like 7 or 8 additional points when i dump my aux power. Additionally, the core I use now has the A->S modifier, which ensures i have relatively strong defenses even when i'm in the Auxiliary phase of my A2B cycle, and EPS which reduces the time i spend waiting for Aux to recharge so i can do it all again.
None of the fleet warp cores offer me even those three options together. As a matter of fact, there isn't a single warp core that even offers the A->S modifier at all.
The summation of this story is that Cryptic expects me to pay the equivalent of 95K dilithium, (12 days of dil grinding) for a DOWNGRADE. Considering the amount I and my fleet (not to mention other players) have already dropped into this fiasco, that is completely and patently unacceptable.
My ideal warp core: Elite Fleet Reinforced Warp core Mk XII [EPS] [A->S] [ACAP] [AMP]
That's it. I don't even are about the slipstream bonuses. I transwarp so much i've forgotten what sector space (and thus slipstream) look like.
Why were warpcores NOT designed as a SOCKET-ABLE item from the beginning after a certain cryptic employee bragged about that ability being in STO on a podcast?
Make the utility bonus (Transwarp cooldown etc) be one type of socket and the direction of the power bonus (A to X) where the X is a second type of socket. Would have really cut down on the 'craptastic' quantity of warp cores. Or at least let the fleet ones be like that.