test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Fleet warp/singularity cores: we need more options

warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
OK, I've now seen the fleet cores. And I'm not impressed. The selection is extremely limited.

12 advanced warp cores
24 elite warp cores
18 advanced singularity cores
36 elite singularity cores

There are 2 different types of warp core and 3 different types of singularity core. So 6 advanced cores and 12 elite cores for each type. I'd guess the warp cores missing a type is probably a bug, but who knows.

It's clear the available cores have been decided randomly, with zero regard for even distribution of attributes. But 6 advanced and 12 elite cores per type is nowhere near enough for such a shotgun approach. For a perfect example of the result, there are only 3 warp cores that boost transwarp cooldown. All of them are Elite, all of them are the same type, all of them even have the same first modifier. You want a traswarp boost, it's an Elite Fleet Hyper-Charged Warp Core with [Eff] for you. No singularity cores boost it at all.

There are thousands of possible combinations for the cores, so it isn't possible to get them all in a standard shop interface. But the current selection is simply appalling. Seriously, 6 advanced cores per type, that isn't even enough to have one of each of the [X->Y] power transfer modifiers (there are 12 possibilities). And the situation with the transwarp boost is a bad joke.

Considering the extreme number of variations, it would be ideal to have a system for "custom building" the cores if possible. An NPC that asks the player to input each modifier in turn, then puts out the core that matches the player's selections.

But if that is not possible and we have to make do with a limited selection, there has to be much more of them and some attention needs to be put into making sure all the options are equally represented. Or maybe if you really like that shotgun approach, you could re-randomize the shop daily so we would at least have the chance to get the perfect core eventually.



P.S. singularity cores are being discriminated against. Warp cores have the full power bonus (+5 and +7.5) to both subsystems, but singularity cores only get +12.5 instead of +15 at full singularity meter. I sincerely hope this is not intentional.
Post edited by warpangel on
«1

Comments

  • marksamuelsonmarksamuelson Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Where did you see these?
  • redheadguyredheadguy Member Posts: 422 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    warpangel wrote: »
    OK, I've now seen the fleet cores. And I'm not impressed. The selection is extremely limited.

    12 advanced warp cores
    24 elite warp cores
    18 advanced singularity cores
    36 elite singularity cores

    There are 2 different types of warp core and 3 different types of singularity core. So 6 advanced cores and 12 elite cores for each type. I'd guess the warp cores missing a type is probably a bug, but who knows.

    It's clear the available cores have been decided randomly, with zero regard for even distribution of attributes. But 6 advanced and 12 elite cores per type is nowhere near enough for such a shotgun approach. For a perfect example of the result, there are only 3 warp cores that boost transwarp cooldown. All of them are Elite, all of them are the same type, all of them even have the same first modifier. You want a traswarp boost, it's an Elite Fleet Hyper-Charged Warp Core with [Eff] for you. No singularity cores boost it at all.

    There are thousands of possible combinations for the cores, so it isn't possible to get them all in a standard shop interface. But the current selection is simply appalling. Seriously, 6 advanced cores per type, that isn't even enough to have one of each of the [X->Y] power transfer modifiers (there are 12 possibilities). And the situation with the transwarp boost is a bad joke.

    Considering the extreme number of variations, it would be ideal to have a system for "custom building" the cores if possible. An NPC that asks the player to input each modifier in turn, then puts out the core that matches the player's selections.

    But if that is not possible and we have to make do with a limited selection, there has to be much more of them and some attention needs to be put into making sure all the options are equally represented. Or maybe if you really like that shotgun approach, you could re-randomize the shop daily so we would at least have the chance to get the perfect core eventually.



    P.S. singularity cores are being discriminated against. Warp cores have the full power bonus (+5 and +7.5) to both subsystems, but singularity cores only get +12.5 instead of +15 at full singularity meter. I sincerely hope this is not intentional.

    The dev's will never let players have that much freedom to custom build a warp core. Look at how they force players to divide skill points up between space and ground with no wiggle room. My Sci Character used to put a lot more skill points into space, and just enough for heals into ground. That was because Sci needed more points to make their skills more effective. Now I'm forced to put what I feel is too much into ground skills when all I really need is to boost my heals. That's a lot of wasted skill points... But like I said, the devs love to micro-manage the players so the small selection of warp cores is no surprise to me.
    [SIGPIC]

    [/SIGPIC]
  • marksamuelsonmarksamuelson Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    It would be a perfect opportunity to let peeps research and build their own cores/singularities though.
  • assimilatedktarassimilatedktar Member Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Yeah, there seem to be 0 W->A cores on the advanced level which is just bad. They should at the very least have examples of all modifiers.
    FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
    Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
  • neok182neok182 Member Posts: 500 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    We don't need to be able to make our own cores just have every possible option availible, or at least 2-3 times what we have.
    ACCESS DENIED
    U.S.S. Horizon | U.S.S. Eternity | U.S.S. Gunstar | U.S.S. Grabthars Hammer | U.S.S. Seaquest DSV
    Kelvin Constitution Class | Yorktown/Sojourner Class | Icarus Class | Vengeance Class | Narcine


  • vesterengvestereng Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Because they going release a new holding system with another type of minor upgrades, then another, then another.

    But yeah laughable at best. +2 to turning in slipstream drive ?

    Of course the first thing you notice is the lack of any +max to weapons. That's what you know you can't take it seriously.

    While my fleet was all wetting themselves over it I ridiculed the +max to engines...
    Really, in your judgement there are more people who have max energy to engines than max weapons? Really?

    I challenge the developers to produce 1 single guy from their office who has any kind of power to engines - forget 125.

    Not to mention the mod I need which works with aux is not even in the game so yeah, terrific
  • badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    vestereng wrote: »
    Because they going release a new holding system with another type of minor upgrades, then another, then another.

    But yeah laughable at best. +2 to turning in slipstream drive ?

    Of course the first thing you notice is the lack of any +max to weapons. That's what you know you can't take it seriously.

    While my fleet was all wetting themselves over it I ridiculed the +max to engines...
    Really, in your judgement there are more people who have max energy to engines than max weapons? Really?

    I challenge the developers to produce 1 single guy from their office who has any kind of power to engines - forget 125.

    Not to mention the mod I need which works with aux is not even in the game so yeah, terrific


    Kinda like the whole [DMG]x3 nonsense for fleet weapons...the devs are FULLY ware that [DMG] is a [LOL] modifier in its' current form, so they use it as fodder for a 4th mod.
  • toivatoiva Member Posts: 3,276 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    vestereng wrote: »
    Because they going release a new holding system with another type of minor upgrades, then another, then another.

    But yeah laughable at best. +2 to turning in slipstream drive ?

    Of course the first thing you notice is the lack of any +max to weapons. That's what you know you can't take it seriously.

    While my fleet was all wetting themselves over it I ridiculed the +max to engines...
    Really, in your judgement there are more people who have max energy to engines than max weapons? Really?

    I challenge the developers to produce 1 single guy from their office who has any kind of power to engines - forget 125.

    Not to mention the mod I need which works with aux is not even in the game so yeah, terrific

    They specifically didn't make any +max power to weps because it'd be a prime choice for like 99% of the playerbase (well, maybe there are more torpboats and Aux DHC using people than 1%, but still not many).


    On the other hand, I entirely agree with the OP, afaik there's not a single Fleet warpcore that would fit my needs. And with all the possibilities, there aren't that many on the exchange either. For now I'll just keep using cheap green Mk XI cores.

    There definitely should be more choices for the Fleet cores, with somehow more evenly distributed modifiers.
    TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class.
    Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
    Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.

    Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
  • ruminate00ruminate00 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    vestereng wrote: »
    Because they going release a new holding system with another type of minor upgrades, then another, then another.

    But yeah laughable at best. +2 to turning in slipstream drive ?

    Of course the first thing you notice is the lack of any +max to weapons. That's what you know you can't take it seriously.

    While my fleet was all wetting themselves over it I ridiculed the +max to engines...
    Really, in your judgement there are more people who have max energy to engines than max weapons? Really?

    I challenge the developers to produce 1 single guy from their office who has any kind of power to engines - forget 125.

    Not to mention the mod I need which works with aux is not even in the game so yeah, terrific

    I'm glad you're not a developer because if they added +max weapons then every other type of warp core would become obsolete.

    And the warp cores don't just add to max, they also add power when its low. The lower the set power the more power it receives, and that is the purpose of the +engine warp cores.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    At the very least, I'd love to have a shields and engines boosting warp core from the fleet store.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • vesterengvestereng Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    So you are saying we shouldn't add anything useful because that will expose the uselessness of the items? Great.

    Like I said show me 1 person in the entire game that has a build with max engine power.

    It's up to the developers to balance things - obviously if you want 135 weapon power the other cores would have to make up for it with their stats.

    All I am saying is the cost of unlocking it vs the usefulness of it is a joke.

    And, compared to other areas of STO building your ship there is zero customiaztion.
  • vnexusvnexus Member Posts: 164 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I just think all the [Coi] types (boost speed while in deep space by +1~1.5 Warp Speed) is frankly useless.. In PvP & STF(PvE) battles. That should have never made it to the Fleet issue types, just Rep, Bat, Eff, etc.. battle buff related.

    Its also one of the bulkier item types that fill the almost-good ones up

    Other then that, why burn so much Dil and Fleet Mark and other resources for something I kan take on and off my ship when needed that runs around 30~70k on the Exchange ? I just dont get it, the Dev that did the list was on that lack-o-sleep SMH

    -V
  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I've yet to see the stats on them, but going by the comments on here they certainly don't sound that special.

    Saying that, I also agree with the decision to keep the [w->x] modifiers out. Just so the normal warp cores can remain somewhat competitive. It's far from perfect but I guess Cryptic needs to just work with the broken tool they have and make the best of it.

    In either event I won't be getting one. Recently I've developed quite a distaste for elite fleet gear, the power creep is getting a bit ridiculous now.
  • catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Ugh. It's like the Embassy Bridge officers all over again, except with even more nonsensical stat distribution.

    There should be some way to get every one of the combinations for warp cores/singularity cores/bridge officers. It's a shame that the current solution seems to just let a random number generator spit out a few combinations and call it a day.
  • assimilatedktarassimilatedktar Member Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    coupaholic wrote: »
    Saying that, I also agree with the decision to keep the [w->x] modifiers out. Just so the normal warp cores can remain somewhat competitive. It's far from perfect but I guess Cryptic needs to just work with the broken tool they have and make the best of it..

    They only keep out W->A on advanced level, W->S and W->E exist. And that doesn't keep the normal warp cores competitive, it only screws over people with builds who need a warp core of that type, because everyone else can have far superior warp cores.
    FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
    Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
  • toivatoiva Member Posts: 3,276 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    vnexus wrote: »
    I just think all the [Coi] types (boost speed while in deep space by +1~1.5 Warp Speed) is frankly useless.. In PvP & STF(PvE) battles. That should have never made it to the Fleet issue types, just Rep, Bat, Eff, etc.. battle buff related.

    Funny, that's a mod I wouldn't mind getting (honestly, the +skill bonuses are those I care the least about on the cores). Only goes to show how much variety is needed.
    TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class.
    Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
    Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.

    Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
  • marksamuelsonmarksamuelson Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Where is anyone finding fleet warp cores & singularities? They don't show up where the shields, engines, & deflectors are on either of the fleets my characters are in.
  • assimilatedktarassimilatedktar Member Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Where is anyone finding fleet warp cores & singularities? They don't show up where the shields, engines, & deflectors are on either of the fleets my characters are in.

    They are in the Dilithium Mine if you have upgraded it and its Development Tier to 1.
    FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
    Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
  • daskippadaskippa Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ruminate00 wrote: »
    I'm glad you're not a developer because if they added +max weapons then every other type of warp core would become obsolete.

    And the warp cores don't just add to max, they also add power when its low. The lower the set power the more power it receives, and that is the purpose of the +engine warp cores.

    Hmmm I wonder, if adding a + to weap pwr mod makes all other cores obsolete I'm curious about what that says about underlying balance in general in this game? Just sayen
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    A warp core that boosted max weapons power wouldn't quite make the others obsolete, but it would be the obvious choice for most players. I completely understand the devs decision not to make one.

    They did not decide to "keep the [W->X] modifiers out." There is no [W->A] in Advanced but there is [W->S] and [W->E] and Elite has them all. In fact, [W->S] is the most common at both levels.

    The available cores were obviously picked randomly, and [W->A] didn't make it to Advanced. Neither did three others. The only one that isn't available at all is [A->S].

    Advanced cores have:
    [W->S] x 3
    [S->W] x 2
    [E->S] x 2
    [W->E] x 1
    [S->A] x 1
    [E->A] x 1
    [A->E] x 1
    [A->W] x 1
    [W->A] x 0
    [S->E] x 0
    [E->W] x 0
    [A->S] x 0

    And Elite cores have:
    [W->S] x 4
    [A->W] x 4
    [S->W] x 3
    [W->A] x 2
    [S->A] x 2
    [E->S] x 2
    [E->A] x 2
    [A->E] x 2
    [W->E] x 1
    [S->E] x 1
    [E->W] x 1
    [A->S] x 0

    Not exactly even distribution is it? We're lucky the most common ones are at least popular ones like [W->S] and [S->W].


    At the very least, every option for each modifier (except maybe the last one, see below) should appear at least once in each type of core. That means an absolute minimum of 12 cores per type (because there are 12 power transfer options). Preferably more, so there could actually be some choice involved.

    As for the last modifier, I think all fleet cores should have [Trans] because the slipstream boosts are mostly useless. If you need one for Tour of the Universe, you might as well use a cheap green Mk XI with [Coi] since the other parameters don't matter at all.
  • linkjoylinkjoy Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I am getting a little confused here.

    Doesn't anybody understand no matter how much you complain, Cryptic won't change it? They obviously have been working on the fleet cores since LoR came out, releasing it with the new DIL mine just at the perfect time to make more money.

    What in the hell makes you think they are going to listen to you and add more cores, while they could easily release more DLC with "Super Elite Warp Cores!!!".

    Like does everyone on these forums enjoy beating a dead horse now?

    Cryptic. Doesn't. Care.

    Everything that is done, is done to make the max profit. Believe me, they know how to sale an item.

    People contentiously play this game, and continuously complain. Just quit for god sakes. This game has become more of a business then a fun game. Sorry :(

    I am calling it right now, and favoring this thread: THe newer "better" cores will be only obtainable through the Lobi stores, Zen store, or when you buy newer ships that have "special" cores on it.

    Guarantee it.
  • toivatoiva Member Posts: 3,276 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    linkjoy wrote: »
    I am getting a little confused here.

    Doesn't anybody understand no matter how much you complain, Cryptic won't change it? They obviously have been working on the fleet cores since LoR came out, releasing it with the new DIL mine just at the perfect time to make more money.

    What in the hell makes you think they are going to listen to you and add more cores, while they could easily release more DLC with "Super Elite Warp Cores!!!".

    Like does everyone on these forums enjoy beating a dead horse now?

    Cryptic. Doesn't. Care.

    Everything that is done, is done to make the max profit. Believe me, they know how to sale an item.

    People contentiously play this game, and continuously complain. Just quit for god sakes. This game has become more of a business then a fun game. Sorry :(

    I am calling it right now, and favoring this thread: THe newer "better" cores will be only obtainable through the Lobi stores, Zen store, or when you buy newer ships that have "special" cores on it.

    Guarantee it.

    There were Fleet Advanced weapons added after the fact (mostly TRIBBLE people who got Fleet weapons before), most notably Accx2 ones.

    So there's hope they add another batch of cores as well, which would be great.
    TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class.
    Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
    Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.

    Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
  • wilbor2wilbor2 Member Posts: 1,651 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I hope there add more but i wont bet on it
    Welcome to bugs online were we only fix the bugs you like, and will ignore the ones you hate.
    These are the voyages of the USS Farmville. Her 5 year mission is to boldly farm where everyone has farmed before.
  • eldritchxeldritchx Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    warpangel wrote: »
    Not exactly even distribution is it? We're lucky the most common ones are at least popular ones like [W->S] and [S->W].

    You realise that this suggests that the mods are NOT random?
  • marrrtinsmarrrtins Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Kind of irrelevant what the combination of power boost is as you don't actually get what is quoted. The description reads +7.5 (bonus increase at lower power levels) once on my recluse I only get a + 6 if I turn my power levels down to the minimum of 15 due to the power boost I get from other equipment/skills, bringing the total up to 52. Once the power levels are up to around 75 the increase drops to 2.5 points and 0 at 95.

    So basically you have to buy a core that boosts the 2 areas you don't want, very logical, and expect a 4-8 point total power increase instead of the advertised 15 (+bonus at low levels)!!!
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,340 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    eldritchx wrote: »
    You realise that this suggests that the mods are NOT random?

    Actually, it doesn't. If you take a random sample from a uniform distribution, the sample usually appears "clumpy". In any case, I agree that the modifiers were not chosen randomly in the strict sense. I would say they were chosen by human with a few contraints, but otherwise arbitrarily. That is how the traits for the embassy boffs were chosen. See the following posts by a dev:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8233721&postcount=75
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8239551&postcount=79
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
  • nephilim83nephilim83 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The lack of singularity with [trans] was the biggest disappointment for me. I can make due with most the other modifiers (they're all useful in the long run), but I have no need for the slipstream mods. Slipstream works fine as is and doesn't need to be boosted. I would, however, like to transwarp faster for more effective doffing.

    If they did allow us to build our own Fleet Singularity Cores, mine would look something like this:

    Engines-Shields [SingA] [Oload] [Wcap] [Trans]

    Now is that so hard?
  • staq16staq16 Member Posts: 1,178 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    linkjoy wrote: »
    I am calling it right now, and favoring this thread: THe newer "better" cores will be only obtainable through the Lobi stores, Zen store, or when you buy newer ships that have "special" cores on it.

    This would not necessarily be a bad thing - it would provide options for those without access to fleet stores of the appropriate tier. In many ways, I'd prefer it...
  • akistosakistos Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    coupaholic wrote: »
    Saying that, I also agree with the decision to keep the [w->x] modifiers out. Just so the normal warp cores can remain somewhat competitive. It's far from perfect but I guess Cryptic needs to just work with the broken tool they have and make the best of it.

    In either event I won't be getting one. Recently I've developed quite a distaste for elite fleet gear, the power creep is getting a bit ridiculous now.

    If i spend 65K fleet credits and 30K dilithium on an item; it had better *not* be competitive with something i can get on the exchange for six figures.

    My main build is an aux-2-bat Vesta. I can throw out a 15 to 18K point hull or shield heal, hit a2b II and then start attacking with 125 each in weapon, shield, and engine power. I can repeat this cycle every 15 seconds or so.

    I prefer to use warp cores with (indeed, the one i have now comes with) the +5 max to aux power, as those 5 additional points translate into something like 7 or 8 additional points when i dump my aux power. Additionally, the core I use now has the A->S modifier, which ensures i have relatively strong defenses even when i'm in the Auxiliary phase of my A2B cycle, and EPS which reduces the time i spend waiting for Aux to recharge so i can do it all again.

    None of the fleet warp cores offer me even those three options together. As a matter of fact, there isn't a single warp core that even offers the A->S modifier at all.

    The summation of this story is that Cryptic expects me to pay the equivalent of 95K dilithium, (12 days of dil grinding) for a DOWNGRADE. Considering the amount I and my fleet (not to mention other players) have already dropped into this fiasco, that is completely and patently unacceptable.

    My ideal warp core: Elite Fleet Reinforced Warp core Mk XII [EPS] [A->S] [ACAP] [AMP]

    That's it. I don't even are about the slipstream bonuses. I transwarp so much i've forgotten what sector space (and thus slipstream) look like.
  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    What I don't understand is

    Why were warpcores NOT designed as a SOCKET-ABLE item from the beginning after a certain cryptic employee bragged about that ability being in STO on a podcast?

    Make the utility bonus (Transwarp cooldown etc) be one type of socket and the direction of the power bonus (A to X) where the X is a second type of socket. Would have really cut down on the 'craptastic' quantity of warp cores. Or at least let the fleet ones be like that.
Sign In or Register to comment.