I'll join my voice to the disappointment of not seeing actual swimwear available to the playerbase. I kind of felt cheated that the NPCs on Risa got to wear them and not us. It's like an irksome double-standard. Heck, it's not a problem to have almost naked orion females run around, but it's inadequate to allow us the option of wearing swimwear?
I've got five outfits on my Romulan character. I swap them around when it feels appropriate. Right now, my 'beachwear' is the formal outfit, which I kind of tweaked while being thought of as a sundress. I would have rather had a swimsuit though.
To the idea of objectifying... frankly, I think that's looking in it too deeply - like, making mountains out of molehills. It's kind of a non-factor for me. When my mom and I went to the beach, she got into a two-piece swimsuit. I never thought it set her in a bad light or anything: my mom was just dressed for the beach.
There's a summer event on Risa. There's water. It's a beach resort. I would have liked to go along with the theme. But, for some reasons there are these roadblocks apparently in the way. It's irksome; I find that - from my point of view - none of these excuses really hold up to scrutinery.
Most people on these forums want this because it makes sense to have access to it, and with the current state of uniforms in the game, the old philosophy of not having people running around ESD in "swim Suits" doesn't make since because it's not star fleet, went out the window with EV suits, Armor, Mirror Universe outfits, Off duty uniforms worn on duty, and so forth.
How does it "make sense" to have access to swimwear, particularly if it's not limited to Risa? You might want something, doesn't mean it's necessary, in the same vein as T5 Constitution class ships were equally rejected by CBS.
many people would love to see more uniform options in general, and this is just one category to work with, and one category people want. I wouldn't mind if the swim suit came with a cloth wrap that was like a dress, or hula skirt, and a more complete top then current Orions, with maybe an open small vest. That would be swim wear enough for me and be less revealing then Orions. Or just give us the Orion options as they are already here.
Dresses already exist in game, as do skirts. Orion gear is worn by Orions and NPCs. Doesn't need to be posted.
So, unless you can add to why you think we should not have any form of swim wear, or something not as revealing but more beach appropriate, we'll all sit here with the understanding that you do not want it, and believe us to be 'degenerates that "objectify" women' for wanting it. Now that your sentiment is clear, you don't have to repeat it. I think we all understand, and won't be forgetting your opinion any time soon.
I have not at any point said that there should be no beach wear. The current items that are available are tasteful, there are skirts and dresses available for female toons. These are acceptable. I didn't call anyone a degenerate, but I did state that deliberately marketing items that objectify males or females is wrong.
Not one person, until I made these posts suggested anything less risque than skimpy Orion clothing as "beachwear" which I see as camouflage for a wider issue put forward by men over the decades about objectifying women and objectionable.
If you are being honest about actually putting in tasteful clothing options for females in addition to what is already in game, this is acceptable. However, I have read and understood your position and that of the community as a whole to be "I want my bikini commandos or no sale." I have stated that I don't think this is acceptable. My opinion is equally is as equally valid as yours, unless you want to wade into the realm of how my gender invalidates my opinion.
For the record. I would have liked a beach dress and a sun hat.
I didn't get what I wanted and neither did you.
Also at the last beach resort I went to in Tenerife, the staff all wore a uniform and didn't just go around everywhere in there swimwear as is shown in game at the moment.
You're not the only one that's disappointed. The costume options are so abysmal that my motivation to do this event is nonexistent. CBS said no to players getting swimwear, and their reasoning was, "It would be inappropriate for the setting if players were allowed to run around on duty with that little clothing." Naturally, they said yes to letting female characters run around Spacedock and STFs with mini-skirts and crop tops, and only being able to show cleavage under their jackets.
Wait a second...
Okay. This question is to Cryptic,... so why are those options appropriate in Champions Online but not STO? Why are the costume options available to KDF Orion Female toons but not any Fed toon. Why are they appropriate for Risan NPC's and not Fed toons?
Speaking of abysmal have you looked at the KDF costume options lately? Apparently Cryptic has spent a lot of time and effort to expand the options for Fed costume option but on the KDF side, WOW, all I have to say is WOW!
On the Fed side the costume options for torso and legs won't even fit on your screen. You have to scroll down and up to see them all. On the KDF side your options are quite limited. Last time i checked there were no costume unlock on the Zen Store for KDF toons.... None.
If you want to try and play the RP card, that's fine too. Star Trek Uniforms are not hot or heavy and maintain the correct body temperature of the wearer according to Memory Alpha.
In ST: DS9 Shadows and Symbols Sisko and Dax don silver uniforms that are designed for the heat of the Tyree not the standard issue black and grey with division colored undershirt. In ST: First Contact when the borg alter the environmental systems crew members begin peeling off layers, Picard even ends up in a tank top undershirt. The unzipping of uniforms when the temperature rises shows up again in ST: DS9 Rocks and Shoals. In ST: Voy Year of Hell, as the crew struggles more and more to maintain the ship Janeway proceeds to roll up the sleeves and ultimately takes off the jacket and undershirt down to the tank top of her uniform presumably from feeling warm as a result of the physical exertion. All this is to say there are several pieces of evidence that suggest that Starfleet uniforms do not in fact maintain a comfortable body temperature in all internal or external environmental situations despite memory-alpha's assertion.
What does this mean for player swimwear on Risa? Very little really, we also have evidence that a t-shirt and pants are sufficiently comfortable for the planet from ST: ENT Two Days and Two Nights ST: TNG The Game and ST: TNG Captain's Holiday. (Admittedly, ST: TNG Captain's Holiday also gives us the other end of the spectrum with the speedo and vest that Picard wear's while sun bathing.)
As for objectification, and appropriateness, well most of the NPCs on Risa in the event zone or the non-event social area show copious amounts of skin, not to mention the Orion "uniform" options that have already been discussed, so it's already an issue regardless of whether or not players in swim wear can be the target. Giving players more options in attire, or lack there of, really isn't going to change anything on that front.
To the swimsuit question: Just give us the swimwear Dax, Leeta, and Bashir wear in DS9 when they visit Risa. Although, maybe we all have the same attitude as Worf?
An age old argument put forward by misogynists. "It's not TRIBBLE, it's art."
"The very act of looking at a naked model was an artifact of male supremacy" (Philip Weiss)
Lets see...
You attack me and call me a misogynist without provocation.
Insist that anything that glorifies the the human body, regardless of gender, is pornography, and hence serves no other function than to titillate people.
And somehow you expect to back it up with a quote from some obscure journalist.
Sorry friend, but you just lost all your credibility there.
You attack me and call me a misogynist without provocation.
Insist that anything that glorifies the the human body, regardless of gender, is pornography, and hence serves no other function than to titillate people.
And somehow you expect to back it up with a quote from some obscure journalist.
Sorry friend, but you just lost all your credibility there.
He (presumably) is also implying that women are simply incapable of objectifying men or other women in the same way men do. I'm sure that must be a fallacy!
An age old argument put forward by misogynists. "It's not TRIBBLE, it's art."
"The very act of looking at a naked model was an artifact of male supremacy" (Philip Weiss)
You know what? Human beings are sexual. We are attracted to beautiful people who (to us) are beautiful. Your line of logic is akin to:
"Man's appreciation of a sunset is an artifact of his will to conquer nature and subject its natural beauties to cold modernist manipulation."
"Man's appreciation of the stars is due to an inherent desire to conquer and subjugate the universe to his Western ideals."
"Man's appreciation of a coconut is evidence of a long-standing pride in the legacy of Western colonialism."
There is a half-thought and dumb postmodernist, idiotic feminist soap box. Anybody with a thinking brain, a beating heart, and an appreciation of the beautiful is immune from this type of fashionable nonsense that illustrates why otherwise smart intellectuals are kind of moronic.
I'm not saying that applies to you, but it certainly applies to that quote.
I like to look at beautiful women, because I am a straight man. I am also, as science has proven, an animal with desires to mate. That doesn't make me a southern plantation master.
I like to look at beautiful women, because I am a straight man. I am also, as science has proven, an animal with desires to mate. That doesn't make me a southern plantation master.
Hoo-ah. I hear that, Kirksplat! I get the feeling that Dakka we're being trolled
I was also very disappointed, the outfits offered are dull and boring IMO. Suitable only for Nuns and the extremely repressed.
I was really hoping for bikini's for my ladies and some actual basic swim trunks for my guys, maybe some hawaiian style open front shirts with options to change colors from a full pallet to suit each persons taste, etc.
Sigh but nooooo the 'politically correct brigade' decided to rain on everyone's parade and we get nothing IMO for real tropical island resort wear. Bah! :mad: I'm tired of that nonsense, these uptight noodnicks gotta suck the fun outa' everything.
I have not at any point said that there should be no beach wear. The current items that are available are tasteful, there are skirts and dresses available for female toons. These are acceptable. I didn't call anyone a degenerate, but I did state that deliberately marketing items that objectify males or females is wrong.
:double-facepalm:
Ok, quick off on this one, I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself what is tasteful and acceptable, and with as much as you seem to want to keep twisting this into an objectifying thing, as far as I'm concerned, pretty much rules you out as the arbiter of what is acceptable and tasteful in the first place. Unless someone is proposing to make available gender-oriented bondage gear, or exposed breast shirts that cover everything except the TRIBBLE, or something else blatantly sexual, I fail to see how anybody is "deliberately marketing items that objectify males or females".
The fact that we are gender-based in the first place makes us see the opposite sex in a sexually grounded way by default. This is just a fact of life and nature, and to deny it or hide from it, has more to do with one being divorced from reality than anything else.
In any event, the arguments in favor of beachwear being available is legitimate. They could be shorts and light shirts, wraps, swim trunks, one-piece and two-piece suits, whatever the user wishes to have on _their_ character is up to them.
There is nothing inappropriate or tasteless about it. We're talking about beachwear, at a vacation resort, on a beach planet. You couldn't get any more appropriate.
Sure, some would like to have the options available elsewhere too and it makes sense. Include some of it as general casual wear too for other places. I'm sure there are plenty of people walking around ESD who aren't on duty or even in Star Fleet, who are casually dressed, even tho we don't see them in the series. Same as you see them sometimes on the ship when they're off duty and heading to or from some recreational activity.
Being able to wear those items elsewhere is part of the whole desire of having our tailor options expanded for more variety, and variety is important.
But this particular Risa event issue when it comes to beachwear? This is mainly about the Risa event itself, and trying to use the argument about it being tasteless or inappropriate or objectifying or whatever other prudish justification you guys can come up with to oppose it, is groundless.
You can't get any more appropriate than beachwear at the beach. To be forced to wear anything else, would be immersion-breaking.
If you want to try and play the RP card, that's fine too. Star Trek Uniforms are not hot or heavy and maintain the correct body temperature of the wearer according to Memory Alpha.
Yes, that way we can RP all those times people were on shore leave on Risa in full uniforms.
How does it "make sense" to have access to swimwear, particularly if it's not limited to Risa? You might want something, doesn't mean it's necessary, in the same vein as T5 Constitution class ships were equally rejected by CBS.
Simple. We were originally told that CBS did not want swim wear to be able to be worn outside of Risa because it didn't fit with the Uniform nature of star fleet. Since then, we have off duty uniforms, armor, OMega reputation gear, formal wear, mercanaries wear, as well as many non standard options like 7 of 9, t'pols, both mirror universes. SO the argument for uniforms has since been quite void.
Add into that, that many of these options are just as bad as what we are asking for. The Orion outfit, as well as the traders outfit from the lobi store and the mirror universe are equally as revealing. Now many people would settle for not getting full bikinis if we got options similar to the Orions, (bottom with some form of wrap around dress or cloth, ect)
All of these are able to be worn every where, so why have something as limited.
Dresses already exist in game, as do skirts. Orion gear is worn by Orions and NPCs. Doesn't need to be posted.
Yes, we have some Skirts. no real dresses, except those no so appealing robe bottoms. Does not mean we could ask for more, otherwise there is no point to add more clothing options. After all, we have boots, so why add more, and the Klingons have shirts and shoulders, so they shouldn't be asking for more either by this logic.
Most people want a more open selection for variety, as there are far more options not in yet. Also, since clothing is presumably really easy to get in the star trek universe, EI the replicators, It makes very little since that my captain cant make themselves such clothing the NPCs or some of the non uniform options others have.
The latest patch to unlock off duty for the Romulans and Klingons have gone a great way to help address some of these issues.
I have not at any point said that there should be no beach wear. The current items that are available are tasteful, there are skirts and dresses available for female toons. These are acceptable. I didn't call anyone a degenerate, but I did state that deliberately marketing items that objectify males or females is wrong.
They are bland and boring. And tasteful is a subjective term. I like the shorts, but it's not worth 600 favor to get for my toons. The dresses and skirts are mainly fed side, not available for Klingons or Romulans, add into that, that many of them are not what we are looking for. The formal dress could be much longer, or have a few more variations. we need some real skirts besides the robe options, which only the Vedec robe bottom seems to work as a dress, and I can list a dozen more.
And I was trying to be more polite with the words "Degenerate". However you have been claiming most people here that want these options are objectifying women, and that it's best we don't get these options to avoid this objectification. I don't know what else you would call people that want to objectify women then degenerates (or any variation on that term) and so you are directly implying that we are
And my whole argument is that there is a difference between wanting to wear something more risque and objectifying some one. And I'll let you in on a little secret. Most people who wear something sexy want to be thought of as sexually appealing, but they also want to be thought of as more at the same time. That is where most of the problems comes in, when some one else only thinks of a person as thing for their sexual desire that it becomes objectification.
I know I want to be thought of as sexually appealing, especially by my significant other, and get some what depressed when they don't occasionally treat me like that. But that's just me.
I am however against harassment, and people need to be sensitive to others and stop any behavior that isn't appropriate when asked.
Not one person, until I made these posts suggested anything less risque than skimpy Orion clothing as "beachwear" which I see as camouflage for a wider issue put forward by men over the decades about objectifying women and objectionable.
You're also making the assumption that every one hear is a man drooling after women. Frankly, you not seeing that might have a lot to do with which threads you see. I tend to stay more in the Klingon and Romulan side where they are asking for more clothes all together, and people posting about Orion style wear and the like are far more reasonable then some of the ones in this thread.
If you are being honest about actually putting in tasteful clothing options for females in addition to what is already in game, this is acceptable. However, I have read and understood your position and that of the community as a whole to be "I want my bikini commandos or no sale." I have stated that I don't think this is acceptable. My opinion is equally is as equally valid as yours, unless you want to wade into the realm of how my gender invalidates my opinion.
I want all forms of options, that work with the other options. Can't say that every on want more "tasteful" options. But keep in mind that many here do not see beach wear as un-tasteful. I can settle with some of the limitations we have, but what does irk me and many others is when there are options we are not allowed, but others or NPCs have them really gets to us. If it was unacceptable to put in game then it should not be in period.
And I don't care what gender you are. As far as I'm concerned, you are a name on a forum with an opinion that I don't agree with. And the implication that other and I who would like these options are Objectify people. And that is why I'm arguing with you, not because you don't want these options, but your implication that we are wrong because we want to objectify people.
I was pretty disappointed to see what little options players had to actually blend in on Risa. No swimsuits or anything available, only something that looks like a slave would be in during the 1700's, and granny britches.
I saw the Main quest woman in Risa and thought, meh, that doesn't look too bad. The Mirror TOS top and the granny pants... I'll give it a shot, and bought the Mirror outfit.
Well check it out, you cant use the beachcomber shorts with mirror, one is off duty only, and the other uniform. WTF? I thought for sure the beachcomber would work in uniform consume slots, the winter event jacket did? Why the difference?
So Im out $5, which isn't too bad... its only $5, but Jesus... who the **** wants shorts when the ONLY other things oyu can put it with are WINTER clothes, and robes? What wrong with allowing us to dress are chars up like the NPCs?
I agree.
The floral arrangements are available for both off-duty and normal uniforms, I see no reason why the other clothing unlocks could not be that also.
For the sake of harmony, and so we don't have to close this thread, please keep your comments on-topic.
Which is to say, feel free to discuss your satisfaction or lack thereof about costumes, particularly the Risa event costumes.
Discussions about sexuality, stereotyping, suitability for mission wear, and the thermal comfort of Starfleet uniforms may well be interesting topics, but they are not THIS topic.
If your topic is interesting enough to be a new thread and is not intended to start an argument, please feel free to start one. (A New Topic, I mean...)
Also, please stop the arguments and in-fighting. They will not be tolerated.
~Bluegeek
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
not really a reason why to limit the costume items between certain slots... ill just mention ds9 pack with the vedek hats that you CAN NOT GET. but leave it there
It might make you think about whether or not you really need to objectify women so badly in this game that requires you needing to be able to wear a "swimsuit" everywhere like the skin bleached Orion girls we see haunting Drozana.
We need the swimsuits so it feels more like a vacation, when I have to wear my uniform or off duty Robes on Risa I feel like I am "Worf" visiting the planet, it really detaches the player from the experience.
"If it doesn't explode, you simply aren't trying hard enough."
I was pretty disappointed to see what little options players had to actually blend in on Risa. No swimsuits or anything available, only something that looks like a slave would be in during the 1700's, and granny britches.
I saw the Main quest woman in Risa and thought, meh, that doesn't look too bad. The Mirror TOS top and the granny pants... I'll give it a shot, and bought the Mirror outfit.
Well check it out, you cant use the beachcomber shorts with mirror, one is off duty only, and the other uniform. WTF? I thought for sure the beachcomber would work in uniform consume slots, the winter event jacket did? Why the difference?
So Im out $5, which isn't too bad... its only $5, but Jesus... who the **** wants shorts when the ONLY other things oyu can put it with are WINTER clothes, and robes? What wrong with allowing us to dress are chars up like the NPCs?
I feel the same way I have wanted the Holo Leta look forever but due to the formal and uniform separation I can't do it. "Mr. Stahl tear down these barriers" :rolleyes:
"If it doesn't explode, you simply aren't trying hard enough."
My 45 year old GF who knows what misogyny is and is not a militant feminist wanted a bathing suit for the beach so when she kicks me out off the computer to run about on the female character she designed she can play on the beach.
Myself I wanted some shorts and an unbuttoned hawaiian shirt for my character rather than tourist rolled up pants and whatever that shirt is.
Both on Risa only limitations would have been fine, It is not like there are not a few hundred NPC's wearing bathing suits to matter if you add 50 players looking the same.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Comments
I've got five outfits on my Romulan character. I swap them around when it feels appropriate. Right now, my 'beachwear' is the formal outfit, which I kind of tweaked while being thought of as a sundress. I would have rather had a swimsuit though.
To the idea of objectifying... frankly, I think that's looking in it too deeply - like, making mountains out of molehills. It's kind of a non-factor for me. When my mom and I went to the beach, she got into a two-piece swimsuit. I never thought it set her in a bad light or anything: my mom was just dressed for the beach.
There's a summer event on Risa. There's water. It's a beach resort. I would have liked to go along with the theme. But, for some reasons there are these roadblocks apparently in the way. It's irksome; I find that - from my point of view - none of these excuses really hold up to scrutinery.
How does it "make sense" to have access to swimwear, particularly if it's not limited to Risa? You might want something, doesn't mean it's necessary, in the same vein as T5 Constitution class ships were equally rejected by CBS.
Dresses already exist in game, as do skirts. Orion gear is worn by Orions and NPCs. Doesn't need to be posted.
I have not at any point said that there should be no beach wear. The current items that are available are tasteful, there are skirts and dresses available for female toons. These are acceptable. I didn't call anyone a degenerate, but I did state that deliberately marketing items that objectify males or females is wrong.
Not one person, until I made these posts suggested anything less risque than skimpy Orion clothing as "beachwear" which I see as camouflage for a wider issue put forward by men over the decades about objectifying women and objectionable.
If you are being honest about actually putting in tasteful clothing options for females in addition to what is already in game, this is acceptable. However, I have read and understood your position and that of the community as a whole to be "I want my bikini commandos or no sale." I have stated that I don't think this is acceptable. My opinion is equally is as equally valid as yours, unless you want to wade into the realm of how my gender invalidates my opinion.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
I didn't get what I wanted and neither did you.
Also at the last beach resort I went to in Tenerife, the staff all wore a uniform and didn't just go around everywhere in there swimwear as is shown in game at the moment.
Okay. This question is to Cryptic,... so why are those options appropriate in Champions Online but not STO? Why are the costume options available to KDF Orion Female toons but not any Fed toon. Why are they appropriate for Risan NPC's and not Fed toons?
Speaking of abysmal have you looked at the KDF costume options lately? Apparently Cryptic has spent a lot of time and effort to expand the options for Fed costume option but on the KDF side, WOW, all I have to say is WOW!
On the Fed side the costume options for torso and legs won't even fit on your screen. You have to scroll down and up to see them all. On the KDF side your options are quite limited. Last time i checked there were no costume unlock on the Zen Store for KDF toons.... None.
Why?
A few lame outfits and no swimsuit.... at a beach resort. Good grief. Well anyway, the rest of Risa is awesome.
In ST: DS9 Shadows and Symbols Sisko and Dax don silver uniforms that are designed for the heat of the Tyree not the standard issue black and grey with division colored undershirt. In ST: First Contact when the borg alter the environmental systems crew members begin peeling off layers, Picard even ends up in a tank top undershirt. The unzipping of uniforms when the temperature rises shows up again in ST: DS9 Rocks and Shoals. In ST: Voy Year of Hell, as the crew struggles more and more to maintain the ship Janeway proceeds to roll up the sleeves and ultimately takes off the jacket and undershirt down to the tank top of her uniform presumably from feeling warm as a result of the physical exertion. All this is to say there are several pieces of evidence that suggest that Starfleet uniforms do not in fact maintain a comfortable body temperature in all internal or external environmental situations despite memory-alpha's assertion.
What does this mean for player swimwear on Risa? Very little really, we also have evidence that a t-shirt and pants are sufficiently comfortable for the planet from ST: ENT Two Days and Two Nights ST: TNG The Game and ST: TNG Captain's Holiday. (Admittedly, ST: TNG Captain's Holiday also gives us the other end of the spectrum with the speedo and vest that Picard wear's while sun bathing.)
As for objectification, and appropriateness, well most of the NPCs on Risa in the event zone or the non-event social area show copious amounts of skin, not to mention the Orion "uniform" options that have already been discussed, so it's already an issue regardless of whether or not players in swim wear can be the target. Giving players more options in attire, or lack there of, really isn't going to change anything on that front.
Lets see...
You attack me and call me a misogynist without provocation.
Insist that anything that glorifies the the human body, regardless of gender, is pornography, and hence serves no other function than to titillate people.
And somehow you expect to back it up with a quote from some obscure journalist.
Sorry friend, but you just lost all your credibility there.
He (presumably) is also implying that women are simply incapable of objectifying men or other women in the same way men do. I'm sure that must be a fallacy!
You know what? Human beings are sexual. We are attracted to beautiful people who (to us) are beautiful. Your line of logic is akin to:
"Man's appreciation of a sunset is an artifact of his will to conquer nature and subject its natural beauties to cold modernist manipulation."
"Man's appreciation of the stars is due to an inherent desire to conquer and subjugate the universe to his Western ideals."
"Man's appreciation of a coconut is evidence of a long-standing pride in the legacy of Western colonialism."
There is a half-thought and dumb postmodernist, idiotic feminist soap box. Anybody with a thinking brain, a beating heart, and an appreciation of the beautiful is immune from this type of fashionable nonsense that illustrates why otherwise smart intellectuals are kind of moronic.
I'm not saying that applies to you, but it certainly applies to that quote.
I like to look at beautiful women, because I am a straight man. I am also, as science has proven, an animal with desires to mate. That doesn't make me a southern plantation master.
Also... a coconut tastes good.
Hoo-ah. I hear that, Kirksplat!
I get the feeling that Dakka we're being trolled
All those gorgeous costumes and whet do we get, potato sacks to calm the hearts of some bunch of idiot prudes.
So much for the Star Trek liberal attitudes.
And if its so offensive why are all the NPC's wandering around half naked? Isn't that splitting the hair a bit thin?
I was really hoping for bikini's for my ladies and some actual basic swim trunks for my guys, maybe some hawaiian style open front shirts with options to change colors from a full pallet to suit each persons taste, etc.
Sigh but nooooo the 'politically correct brigade' decided to rain on everyone's parade and we get nothing IMO for real tropical island resort wear. Bah! :mad: I'm tired of that nonsense, these uptight noodnicks gotta suck the fun outa' everything.
But could they maybe desegregate the outfits already?
http://geekparty.com/legacy-of-romulus-more-like-legacy-of-outfitus/ The code is already there and they just won't implement it. It's pretty freaking annoying. If I could at least use the beachcomber shorts with any uniform top, I'd be cool.
Ok, quick off on this one, I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself what is tasteful and acceptable, and with as much as you seem to want to keep twisting this into an objectifying thing, as far as I'm concerned, pretty much rules you out as the arbiter of what is acceptable and tasteful in the first place. Unless someone is proposing to make available gender-oriented bondage gear, or exposed breast shirts that cover everything except the TRIBBLE, or something else blatantly sexual, I fail to see how anybody is "deliberately marketing items that objectify males or females".
The fact that we are gender-based in the first place makes us see the opposite sex in a sexually grounded way by default. This is just a fact of life and nature, and to deny it or hide from it, has more to do with one being divorced from reality than anything else.
In any event, the arguments in favor of beachwear being available is legitimate. They could be shorts and light shirts, wraps, swim trunks, one-piece and two-piece suits, whatever the user wishes to have on _their_ character is up to them.
There is nothing inappropriate or tasteless about it. We're talking about beachwear, at a vacation resort, on a beach planet. You couldn't get any more appropriate.
Sure, some would like to have the options available elsewhere too and it makes sense. Include some of it as general casual wear too for other places. I'm sure there are plenty of people walking around ESD who aren't on duty or even in Star Fleet, who are casually dressed, even tho we don't see them in the series. Same as you see them sometimes on the ship when they're off duty and heading to or from some recreational activity.
Being able to wear those items elsewhere is part of the whole desire of having our tailor options expanded for more variety, and variety is important.
But this particular Risa event issue when it comes to beachwear? This is mainly about the Risa event itself, and trying to use the argument about it being tasteless or inappropriate or objectifying or whatever other prudish justification you guys can come up with to oppose it, is groundless.
You can't get any more appropriate than beachwear at the beach. To be forced to wear anything else, would be immersion-breaking.
-- Smoov
Yes, that way we can RP all those times people were on shore leave on Risa in full uniforms.
Simple. We were originally told that CBS did not want swim wear to be able to be worn outside of Risa because it didn't fit with the Uniform nature of star fleet. Since then, we have off duty uniforms, armor, OMega reputation gear, formal wear, mercanaries wear, as well as many non standard options like 7 of 9, t'pols, both mirror universes. SO the argument for uniforms has since been quite void.
Add into that, that many of these options are just as bad as what we are asking for. The Orion outfit, as well as the traders outfit from the lobi store and the mirror universe are equally as revealing. Now many people would settle for not getting full bikinis if we got options similar to the Orions, (bottom with some form of wrap around dress or cloth, ect)
All of these are able to be worn every where, so why have something as limited.
Yes, we have some Skirts. no real dresses, except those no so appealing robe bottoms. Does not mean we could ask for more, otherwise there is no point to add more clothing options. After all, we have boots, so why add more, and the Klingons have shirts and shoulders, so they shouldn't be asking for more either by this logic.
Most people want a more open selection for variety, as there are far more options not in yet. Also, since clothing is presumably really easy to get in the star trek universe, EI the replicators, It makes very little since that my captain cant make themselves such clothing the NPCs or some of the non uniform options others have.
The latest patch to unlock off duty for the Romulans and Klingons have gone a great way to help address some of these issues.
They are bland and boring. And tasteful is a subjective term. I like the shorts, but it's not worth 600 favor to get for my toons. The dresses and skirts are mainly fed side, not available for Klingons or Romulans, add into that, that many of them are not what we are looking for. The formal dress could be much longer, or have a few more variations. we need some real skirts besides the robe options, which only the Vedec robe bottom seems to work as a dress, and I can list a dozen more.
And I was trying to be more polite with the words "Degenerate". However you have been claiming most people here that want these options are objectifying women, and that it's best we don't get these options to avoid this objectification. I don't know what else you would call people that want to objectify women then degenerates (or any variation on that term) and so you are directly implying that we are
And my whole argument is that there is a difference between wanting to wear something more risque and objectifying some one. And I'll let you in on a little secret. Most people who wear something sexy want to be thought of as sexually appealing, but they also want to be thought of as more at the same time. That is where most of the problems comes in, when some one else only thinks of a person as thing for their sexual desire that it becomes objectification.
I know I want to be thought of as sexually appealing, especially by my significant other, and get some what depressed when they don't occasionally treat me like that. But that's just me.
I am however against harassment, and people need to be sensitive to others and stop any behavior that isn't appropriate when asked.
You're also making the assumption that every one hear is a man drooling after women. Frankly, you not seeing that might have a lot to do with which threads you see. I tend to stay more in the Klingon and Romulan side where they are asking for more clothes all together, and people posting about Orion style wear and the like are far more reasonable then some of the ones in this thread.
I want all forms of options, that work with the other options. Can't say that every on want more "tasteful" options. But keep in mind that many here do not see beach wear as un-tasteful. I can settle with some of the limitations we have, but what does irk me and many others is when there are options we are not allowed, but others or NPCs have them really gets to us. If it was unacceptable to put in game then it should not be in period.
And I don't care what gender you are. As far as I'm concerned, you are a name on a forum with an opinion that I don't agree with. And the implication that other and I who would like these options are Objectify people. And that is why I'm arguing with you, not because you don't want these options, but your implication that we are wrong because we want to objectify people.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
I saw the Main quest woman in Risa and thought, meh, that doesn't look too bad. The Mirror TOS top and the granny pants... I'll give it a shot, and bought the Mirror outfit.
Well check it out, you cant use the beachcomber shorts with mirror, one is off duty only, and the other uniform. WTF? I thought for sure the beachcomber would work in uniform consume slots, the winter event jacket did? Why the difference?
So Im out $5, which isn't too bad... its only $5, but Jesus... who the **** wants shorts when the ONLY other things oyu can put it with are WINTER clothes, and robes? What wrong with allowing us to dress are chars up like the NPCs?
The floral arrangements are available for both off-duty and normal uniforms, I see no reason why the other clothing unlocks could not be that also.
For the sake of harmony, and so we don't have to close this thread, please keep your comments on-topic.
Which is to say, feel free to discuss your satisfaction or lack thereof about costumes, particularly the Risa event costumes.
Discussions about sexuality, stereotyping, suitability for mission wear, and the thermal comfort of Starfleet uniforms may well be interesting topics, but they are not THIS topic.
If your topic is interesting enough to be a new thread and is not intended to start an argument, please feel free to start one. (A New Topic, I mean...)
Also, please stop the arguments and in-fighting. They will not be tolerated.
~Bluegeek
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I am not satisfied with the new costumes available. I think this because:
I wanted more conservative options and the majority wanted less conservative options.
I am also disappointed because I do not believe that any of the costumes are representative of a modern civilised society.
We respectfully disagree on this matter.
We need the swimsuits so it feels more like a vacation, when I have to wear my uniform or off duty Robes on Risa I feel like I am "Worf" visiting the planet, it really detaches the player from the experience.
I feel the same way I have wanted the Holo Leta look forever but due to the formal and uniform separation I can't do it. "Mr. Stahl tear down these barriers" :rolleyes:
Myself I wanted some shorts and an unbuttoned hawaiian shirt for my character rather than tourist rolled up pants and whatever that shirt is.
Both on Risa only limitations would have been fine, It is not like there are not a few hundred NPC's wearing bathing suits to matter if you add 50 players looking the same.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek: