Completely agree with Velqua, WE get them or NPC's loose them. and lets not forget there are a few cannon episodes of star trek with swimsuits, Also the infamous Klingon Cleavage either.
When was the last time you went to a resort warring full battle armour? I bought the sunglasses because they look good, that's it, I wont be playing any other games because my char sun bathing in a duty uniform looks weird!
EXACTLY. 1000%.
In CO at least, the generic NPCs ALL wear outfits that can be used by the player (although some are rather horrifying). Yes, most of the hostile mob types have their own unique costume parts, but that's to be expected.
But there's no place you can visit where 100% of the 'just standing around' NPCs are wearing something that the player can't obtain. Like how Risa is.
Frankly it's just insulting.
Also, the whole uniform verses off-duty thing needs to go away. Now.
In CO at least, the generic NPCs ALL wear outfits that can be used by the player (although some are rather horrifying). Yes, most of the hostile mob types have their own unique costume parts, but that's to be expected.
But there's no place you can visit where 100% of the 'just standing around' NPCs are wearing something that the player can't obtain. Like how Risa is.
Frankly it's just insulting.
Also, the whole uniform verses off-duty thing needs to go away. Now.
The uniform/off-duty thing wouldn't upset me so much if I didn't have proof positive that the code already exists to allow outfit desegregation. So it's not even that they'd have to do anything new.
The uniform/off-duty thing wouldn't upset me so much if I didn't have proof positive that the code already exists to allow outfit desegregation. So it's not even that they'd have to do anything new.
Just implement the code player side.
Yup. There was even a bug a few months ago that allowed you to use (and save and wear) whatever top and bottom you wanted, 'uniform' or 'off-duty' or not.
Yup. There was even a bug a few months ago that allowed you to use (and save and wear) whatever top and bottom you wanted, 'uniform' or 'off-duty' or not.
I know. I wrote an article about it for Geekparty, and made sure to post up screenshots.
So the proof is saved for posterity, on a video game journalism website, where anyone and everyone who's googling for information about STO can find it.
Because I'm only asking one thing here, and I don't think it's so much to ask.
No you see, TOS was tasteful and somewhat respectful of women for a 1960s television show. There was flesh, but no where near as much as now. Compare the Kartrashians with the women in TOS, completeley different.
Roddenberry is probably back up the right way now after what JJ did to Trek...
Star Trek was considered quite racy back in the day. :rolleyes:
I'm not happy we didn't even get at least tanktops and shorts (the latter for males anyway). I mean seriously?!? And it just irritates me that female characters get shorts, and males don't. Were the devs too lazy/skin adverse to give them shorts? That's just ridiculous!
It's also hard with all these awesome NPC costumes around, and we're stuck with these lame and still buggy super expensive costumes. The whole thing was just such an epic fail.
The costumes aren't that expensive, just not meant to be gained in two days unless you work at it. Would I protest them being knocked down a hundred favors or so? Not at all.
But let's say you visit Risa 25 times, for the Corvette. If you stick around and finish a Horga'hn Hunt, you get, at an absolute minimum 30 (and usually more like 40) Favors. When you get the corvette, you'll have more than 750 favors. And that's assuming you leave immediately and don't stick around for more hunts.
I'm discounting the Dance Contest, since even though it gets you 25 favors, it's also eye-gougingly tedious to do more than once. Yeesh.
Anyway, yeah, I'll add my voice to the disappointed crowd. It's pretty telling when almost everyone is outright saying to not even bother buying the "Explorer" outfit, since it's so terrible compared to the less-terrible Beachcomber.
The costumes aren't that expensive, just not meant to be gained in two days unless you work at it. Would I protest them being knocked down a hundred favors or so? Not at all.
But let's say you visit Risa 25 times, for the Corvette. If you stick around and finish a Horga'hn Hunt, you get, at an absolute minimum (and usually more like 40) Favors. When you get the corvette, you'll have more than 750 favors. And that's assuming you leave immediately and don't stick around for more hunts.
I'm discounting the Dance Contest, since even though it gets you 25 favors, it's also eye-gougingly tedious to do more than once. Yeesh.
Anyway, yeah, I'll add my voice to the disappointed crowd. It's pretty telling when almost everyone is outright saying to not even bother buying the "Explorer" outfit, since it's so terrible compared to the less-terrible Beachcomber.
I...what?
I just did the hunt. I got fifteen favors. Now, I don't pretend I'm great at grinding or anything, but fifteen is not even remotely like 40.
Couldn't they have made it so that we could wear said uniforms, though they're only wearable when on Risa? Would be more realistic in that sense, as, aside from Worf, nobody wears their uniform on Risa.
Frankly, I'd just like more options, be it the "Unrestricted" coding for the tailor, swimsuits (running the gamut of styles, and maybe only useable on Risa), and/or a larger variety for the KDF and Rommie costume selection. I just like having tons of different costume setups for my characters. It was probably one of my biggest spending points back when they were still regularly adding costumes to the C-Store, and where a fair bit of my Lobi has gone.
Possible idea...
Allow swimwear and beachwear... whatever range people ask for, but on its own clothing type in the tailor. Also all you to use any of the other clothing types along with it to mix and match. So, say, one of the pairs of pants colored a pastel to look like sweats, with a bikini top, for being on Risa or another beach/sunny/recreational area.
In addition, when your active outfit is the "Recreation" outfit, then all of your offensive/defensive powers, are disabled.
This would effectively rule out wearing recreational-oriented clothing in any combat zone (unless you were committing suicide) and still allow for social functions to occur on your own ship (inviting friends), or on your fleet starbase, or wherever else your group may decide to hold a purely social function.
Running around ESD in a bikini top and shorts/skirt, may not look right in most places, like the shipyard area, but would look totally appropriate in ESD's club. And then, walking to/from the transporter would also be appropriate.
Not allowing Recreation outfits on ESD or in the Academy however, would be a reasonable limitation I think. How many people actually hang out in ESD's club anyways?
The Fleet social functions however would be more likely. There are some fleets, that get together just because they genuinely like each other's company, and getting together to hang out is a normal thing.
Then there is the holodeck. It always seems such a damned shame when I explore a new area somewhere and find a holodeck, and nothing to do in there. If we could be able to roll up a random planetside location (like in some of the 'unexplored' sections of the sector map where it seems like you get thrown into a random environment) in the holodeck, that would be just great.
We could set up our own training sessions... just hang out on a beach or a mountain top, practice with our new skills, experiment with weapons, whatever we needed to do via the holodeck.
That would also be an appropriate place for a Recreation outfit.
I know that it'll never happen (ok, maybe a 4% chance) but still, nice-to-haves...
While I like the outfits we did get, I'd have actually loved to see sandals in addition to the barefoot option. Sure, Orions get sandals, but they're the only ones that I know of. Other races could use them too.
Also like the idea of having swimwear or similar, but limit where you can use it. That works for me.
However, the accusation of objectification that has been thrown at some posters in this thread is not justified.
Until I see someone on this thread asking for a slider bar for pertness of nipples we aren't there yet.....not by a long shot.
<SARCASM>
Well, if we get that, then we'll need another slider to adjust how firm/saggy the TRIBBLE are, and 4 more sliders just for the breast-bounce physics alone... .. .
</SARCASM>
Honestly... objectification? We are nowhere even close to approaching that threshold.
Agreed. And you make a hugely important point, perhaps without realising it.
You quoted me out of context. My point was if anything TOS with it's deliberately racey costumes pushing the boundaries of acceptability is better than what we have now on modern television.
Star Trek was considered quite racy back in the day. :rolleyes:
Of course it was. It was pushing the limits of what was deemed acceptable in a good way.
I would have hoped that a TV show such as Star Trek that pushes the boundaries having black captains, female captains, asian helmsmen and women, inter racial relations all as positive models wouldn't fall so far back into just having women in skimpy attire like the SF that predated it.
Swimsuits, clearly, should have been an option. If not swimsuits, then something that blends in with the setting far more.
A long sun dress is a nice idea, as is a sun hat.
Thing is, you're not swimming on Risa, nor are you sun bathing. (as there is no sun and you won't tan anyway, no matter how much you have on show.) If you're doing it properly, you're flying around in a jetpack exploring a large island, doing some dancing and finding little statues.
You need a swimsuit for that? I think not. Less formal attire, granted.
Well, if we get that, then we'll need another slider to adjust how firm/saggy the TRIBBLE are, and 4 more sliders just for the breast-bounce physics alone... .. .
Honestly... objectification? We are nowhere even close to approaching that threshold.
-- Smoov
See, no I have to disagree. Just because you can envisage a worse situation that the one we are in at the moment doesn't mean that it's not that bad. It's a logical fallacy.
We already have sliders that can make the most caricatured versions of what is considered the "ideal" female. You can make TRIBBLE out of proportion with the body type and shape the same can be said about the derriere. There is not a single flat chested female in game, not an NPC nor player, it's just not possible but you can create TRIBBLE so large they would break backs in real life.
One poster said that "in civilised society women sunbathe topless" So really if you start adding swimsuits to the game, you're not far removed from this option being campaigned for as well. The writing is on the wall, quite literally.
Speaking as a female gamer, and a very strong feminist... I ABSOLUTELY want swimsuits. I absolutely want people to be able to wear them wherever they want. And why?
Because they're playing the game, and so am I, and, while I'm likely only going to wear mine on Risa, they get to have their fun. It doesn't interfere with my fun. And I'm going to wear mine on Risa because if I'm at the beach, I want to swim, and I want to look good doing it.
My point was if anything TOS with it's deliberately racey costumes pushing the boundaries of acceptability is better than what we have now on modern television.
Of course it was. It was pushing the limits of what was deemed acceptable in a good way.
I would have hoped that a TV show such as Star Trek that pushes the boundaries having black captains, female captains, asian helmsmen and women, inter racial relations all as positive models wouldn't fall so far back into just having women in skimpy attire like the SF that predated it.
Maybe it is not modern TV or what you are arguing against here in the forums but it is what you percieve and how YOU see things and yourself that is the problem? Bathing suits on a beach is acceptable anywhere in the world except some countries and areas where woman Have no rights at all and i believe you would be very against said treatment of no rights and actualy being an object. Yes Some places woman are nothing more than an object and that is NOT here in the USA or EU or GB.
Nobody here is asking for bikini's that is nothing but 2 1 inch squares connected by a thread for a top and a 2X1 bit covering the labia only connected by more thread for a bottom. Simply nothing more than what the NPC's have and is far less objectifying or showing of female skin than what most everyone here see's on a beach during the summer. And they also want equal for male characters so it is not just about female characters.
I am not trying to bag on you but really try to look into what everyone who is not a militant feminist is seeing here rather than what those militant feminists are trying to teach you. And misogyny used out of context or completely wrong and objectification are 2 of a militant feminist favorites for ammo and i have seen you use both. Seriously for your own sake look at the other side of the spectrum all the way to the side you are on and you may see what you feel about everyone else is just wrong or misguided. Please atleast for yourself takle a few steps back and look at things objectivly without all the feminist talk rattling around in the background guiding you as well as your own self esteem and how you feel about yourself.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Maybe it is not modern TV or what you are arguing against here in the forums but it is what you percieve and how YOU see things and yourself that is the problem? Bathing suits on a beach is acceptable anywhere in the world except some countries and areas where woman Have no rights at all and i believe you would be very against said treatment of no rights and actualy being an object. Yes Some places woman are nothing more than an object and that is NOT here in the USA or EU or GB.
Nobody here is asking for bikini's that is nothing but 2 1 inch squares connected by a thread for a top and a 2X1 bit covering the labia only connected by more thread for a bottom. Simply nothing more than what the NPC's have and is far less objectifying or showing of female skin than what most everyone here see's on a beach during the summer. And they also want equal for male characters so it is not just about female characters.
I am not trying to bag on you but really try to look into what everyone who is not a militant feminist is seeing here rather than what those militant feminists are trying to teach you. And misogyny used out of context or completely wrong and objectification are 2 of a militant feminist favorites for ammo and i have seen you use both. Seriously for your own sake look at the other side of the spectrum all the way to the side you are on and you may see what you feel about everyone else is just wrong or misguided. Please atleast for yourself takle a few steps back and look at things objectivly without all the feminist talk rattling around in the background guiding you as well as your own self esteem and how you feel about yourself.
I was looking at it objectively. You're (plural) all so busy trying to flame me and tell me to "get back into the kitchen" (misogyny) that you aren't listening to what I'm saying.
I live in GB, I have seen for myself and have seen in my own personal experience what things are like for women. I know first hand, what it's like with less than pleasant experiences and you want to tell me I'm wrong. You are drawing ridiculous parallels, yes it is worse in some countries, that doesn't mean it's perfect here. That's a logical fallacy.
Just because you can't perceive a problem doesn't mean there isn't one.
I have said the following:
1. I wanted beachwear, since we are not actually swimming at all by any stretch of the imagination. However, I didn't want to turn this into Burlesque online: now featuring featuring jetpacks. Which is what it could and possibly still will turn into given the attitudes displayed by some of the player base.
2. I resent the implication and outright statement in this very thread no less, that unless some players can have their big breasted gun toting bikini babes in all aspects of the game at all times the game isn't worth playing. I also object to more than one thread being started about the topic.
3. I don't think it should get to the stage where "creating sliders for nipple pertness and breast bounce physics" as was referred to earlier in this thread.
4. I object to the idea of topless sunbathing on Risa, again suggested in this thread.
5. I don't want it to get to the stage as it has in reality where dental floss is considered clothing.
5. I object to having my character relentlessly propositioned by other players in this game. Who want me to dress in such a way.
6. Time and money would be better spent in game creating actual content or fixing bugs, not just "eye candy" for a male majority for a short period of time.
None of this is militant feminism. It's just basically common sense.
You don't want to see any of my arguments fine. You don't want to listen fine. You want your "swimsuits" for whatever reason except swimming which isn't possible in game, fine. I'm still entitled to object to it same as any other thing in this game and I will continue to do so. That is the price you pay for free speech.
Speaking as a female gamer, and a very strong feminist... I ABSOLUTELY want swimsuits. I absolutely want people to be able to wear them wherever they want. And why? Because they're playing the game, and so am I, and, while I'm likely only going to wear mine on Risa, they get to have their fun. It doesn't interfere with my fun. And I'm going to wear mine on Risa because if I'm at the beach, I want to swim, and I want to look good doing it.
You and I have different views on feminism. I don't pretend to know your mind, but from what you've posted you sound like part of the skimpy clothes are "empowering" camp. I don't and will not ever subscribe to that philosophy. Nor do I subscribe to appeasement as a viable path to liberation. That's up to you though and is perfectly valid, but will only get you so far.
I am not telling you what to think, but rather I am asking you to think about the points I have made. The fact that there is truth in what I am saying however slight, is why people have responded so angrily to it, else you would have ignored it and let the topic die.
You and I have different views on feminism. I don't pretend to know your mind, but from what you've posted you sound like part of the skimpy clothes are "empowering" camp. I don't and will not ever subscribe to that philosophy. Nor do I subscribe to appeasement as a viable path to liberation. That's up to you though and is perfectly valid, but will only get you so far.
Or perhaps she just doesn't view one-piece swimsuits as skimpy at all and simply wants to look appropriate for the setting. By and large, they're considered to be conservative. You're the only person here that's suggesting they aren't.
More skin =/= sexual objectification.
Regardless, the problem isn't objectification, the problem is that everyone is too overdressed for a tropical beachfront resort. You suggested sun dresses and beach hats. I agree, that's appropriate for the setting. I suggest one-piece bathing suits for women, and board shorts with a tank top and shirtless option for men. These are also appropriate for the setting, as evidenced by real life.
Or perhaps she just doesn't view one-piece swimsuits as skimpy at all and simply wants to look appropriate for the setting. By and large, they're considered to be conservative. You're the only person here that's suggesting they aren't.
More skin =/= sexual objectification.
Regardless, the problem isn't objectification, the problem is that everyone is too overdressed for a tropical beachfront resort. You suggested sun dresses and beach hats. I agree, that's appropriate for the setting. I suggest one-piece bathing suits for women, and board shorts with a tank top and shirtless option for men. These are also appropriate for the setting, as evidenced by real life.
I haven't suggested that one piece bathing suits are skimpy. I have however said that bathing suits that are three handkerchiefs tied together with string are and is as you so put it evidenced by real life laws against public nudity.
As I said before, a woman was arrested for wearing a thong to the beach in South Carolina in the US of A. I would imagine a man would have also. I would invite you to look up the any and all laws regarding swimming costumes at your local beach.
Yes I suggested sundresses and beach hats. That's appropriate beachwear, particularly if you're not going swimming or sunbathing. Neither of which you can actually do on Risa. I have no issue with one piece bathing suits.
For the final time, the issue I have is with actual skimpy, risque outfits being placed in game. I invite you to look up this word and apply it in context, you might be unpleasantly surprised.
If you (plural) are all so confident about what sexual objectification is not. DEFINE it in no uncertain terms for me using references as appropriate.
Yes I suggested sundresses and beach hats. That's appropriate beachwear, particularly if you're not going swimming or sunbathing. Neither of which you can actually do on Risa. I have no issue with one piece bathing suits.
Not on the new map, but on the old Risa, the water is fairly deep.
I was looking at it objectively. You're (plural) all so busy trying to flame me and tell me to "get back into the kitchen" (misogyny) that you aren't listening to what I'm saying.
I live in GB, I have seen for myself and have seen in my own personal experience what things are like for women. I know first hand, what it's like with less than pleasant experiences and you want to tell me I'm wrong. You are drawing ridiculous parallels, yes it is worse in some countries, that doesn't mean it's perfect here. That's a logical fallacy.
Just because you can't perceive a problem doesn't mean there isn't one.
I have said the following:
1. I wanted beachwear, since we are not actually swimming at all by any stretch of the imagination. However, I didn't want to turn this into Burlesque online: now featuring featuring jetpacks. Which is what it could and possibly still will turn into given the attitudes displayed by some of the player base.
2. I resent the implication and outright statement in this very thread no less, that unless some players can have their big breasted gun toting bikini babes in all aspects of the game at all times the game isn't worth playing. I also object to more than one thread being started about the topic.
3. I don't think it should get to the stage where "creating sliders for nipple pertness and breast bounce physics" as was referred to earlier in this thread.
4. I object to the idea of topless sunbathing on Risa, again suggested in this thread.
5. I don't want it to get to the stage as it has in reality where dental floss is considered clothing.
5. I object to having my character relentlessly propositioned by other players in this game. Who want me to dress in such a way.
6. Time and money would be better spent in game creating actual content or fixing bugs, not just "eye candy" for a male majority for a short period of time.
None of this is militant feminism. It's just basically common sense.
You don't want to see any of my arguments fine. You don't want to listen fine. You want your "swimsuits" for whatever reason except swimming which isn't possible in game, fine. I'm still entitled to object to it same as any other thing in this game and I will continue to do so. That is the price you pay for free speech.
You and I have different views on feminism. I don't pretend to know your mind, but from what you've posted you sound like part of the skimpy clothes are "empowering" camp. I don't and will not ever subscribe to that philosophy. Nor do I subscribe to appeasement as a viable path to liberation. That's up to you though and is perfectly valid, but will only get you so far.
I am not telling you what to think, but rather I am asking you to think about the points I have made. The fact that there is truth in what I am saying however slight, is why people have responded so angrily to it, else you would have ignored it and let the topic die.
1. This seems to be moot. Example: We are not in the TOS era, yet have TOS uniforms. We do not play in the Alternate Future, yet have Alternate Future uniforms. Not being able to swim does not and should not make the presence of bathing suits an issue. That seems like a silly excuse in a game that goes out of its way to fulfill fantasies.
2. You need to understand and accept that for some people, that does make the game not worth playing. There seems to be a difficulty on your part to objectively imagine differing points of view; it's your vision for the game or no vision. That's fine, but let's not pretend it's anything other than personal subjectivity under the guise of objectivity and morality.
3. Agreed. I don't see how those things add to the game as it is. In all cases I support more options, but those options specifically come dangerously close to skirting the ESRB rating on this game.
4. Agreed. See #3.
5. Welcome to the real world, where people have attractions and lack the social grace to keep them in check. It's never going to change; tell them to move along, you're not interested.
6. And in this case, welcome to business. That "male majority" buys things and PWE wants to sell things. If they can sell more of this stuff by appealing to the sentimentality of the male majority, you can bet they will. The only solution you're going to have is to spend your money on a game that caters to a more open audience. I wonder if you would expect the same sorts of things had you been playing Call of Duty or Battlefield? It doesn't get more "dudebro" than those titles.
Your definition of feminism is one of many. Don't disparage his/her comfort with the situation just because you're unhappy with it.
Final thought: You appear to be advocating against the presence of "skimpy" outfits (a subjective terminology if ever there was one) because of a personal aversion to them. So instead of putting yourself in a more acceptable situation, you want to enforce your own morality/subjectivity on the rest of us (I don't include myself as I'm perfectly ambivalent to the issue of bathing-suits in this game). That's the problem with any form of activism: if they can't win on the merits of their argument, they try to change the terms of the conversation; if they can't change the conversation, they try to change the rules. The goal is to impose their worldview on everyone else, regardless of how people feel about it. It's one of the most ironic and hypocritical forms of political action I can imagine.
1. This seems to be moot. Example: We are not in the TOS era, yet have TOS uniforms. We do not play in the Alternate Future, yet have Alternate Future uniforms. Not being able to swim does not and should not make the presence of bathing suits an issue. That seems like a silly excuse in a game that goes out of its way to fulfill fantasies.
Yes and no. There are things we can't have in this game. A Borg faction, a Tier 5 Constitution class to name a few issues.
2. You need to understand and accept that for some people, that does make the game not worth playing. There seems to be a difficulty on your part to objectively imagine differing points of view; it's your vision for the game or no vision. That's fine, but let's not pretend it's anything other than personal subjectivity under the guise of objectivity and morality.
If you're playing this game for a specific concept like that, I would suggest you are playing the wrong game.
6. And in this case, welcome to business. That "male majority" buys things and PWE wants to sell things. If they can sell more of this stuff by appealing to the sentimentality of the male majority, you can bet they will. The only solution you're going to have is to spend your money on a game that caters to a more open audience. I wonder if you would expect the same sorts of things had you been playing Call of Duty or Battlefield? It doesn't get more "dudebro" than those titles.
So because you can sell anything with a scantily clad woman, that makes it the correct thing to do? What happened to I dunno, selling something to someone because it was worth buying...
Your definition of feminism is one of many. Don't disparage his/her comfort with the situation just because you're unhappy with it.
I didn't disparage anyone, I identified it and stated that I don't agree with it. Her view is not superior to mine, just because it is a view of feminism that ironically appeals to men. I stated it was equally valid as mine. You are disparaging mine, because you don't agree with it.
Final thought: You appear to be advocating against the presence of "skimpy" outfits (a subjective terminology if ever there was one) because of a personal aversion to them. So instead of putting yourself in a more acceptable situation, you want to enforce your own morality/subjectivity on the rest of us (I don't include myself as I'm perfectly ambivalent to the issue of bathing-suits in this game).
I don't have an aversion to them. I disagree with the idea that this game requires them in order to sell. I disagree with the entire concept that you advocate. You have not presented a solution to this problem short of telling me to leave. That is unacceptable and hypocritical.
That's the problem with any form of activism: if they can't win on the merits of their argument, they try to change the terms of the conversation; if they can't change the conversation, they try to change the rules. The goal is to impose their worldview on everyone else, regardless of how people feel about it. It's one of the most ironic and hypocritical forms of political action I can imagine.
Um no, I've not changed any rules or the conversation. It is you as a group that are changing the rules of the conversation in an attempt to flame me. You clearly have not read all my posts, told me what I think and then proceeded to ignore my perfectly fair question of defining the things you say are so subjective.
Ironic that in trying to silence me and maintain the status quo, you are the one projecting your world view regardless of how I feel about it and anyone that may agree with me.
Dan Stahl is still a coward for not having a legit no BS conversation with his customers why we couldnt get swimwear, and they went the extra mile to make new outfits for the NPCs to walk around in just to taunt us.
Having said that, I noticed my Winterjacket makes for a really good Rocketeer look when I strap on my jet pack. So thats what you'll see my toons in this summer.
Edit: Ooooooo, I just found the Rocketeer theme music on iTunes. Im going to fly around to that to go with my Rocketeer jacket and jetpack.
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Having said that, I noticed my Winterjacket makes for a really good Rocketeer look when I strap on my jet pack. So thats what you'll see my toons in this summer.
Having said that, I noticed my Winterjacket makes for a really good Rocketeer look when I strap on my jet pack. So thats what you'll see my toons in this summer.
I think the Tuxedos make the guys look like James Bond and that's pretty cool.
To be honest the Jetpacks are the most awesome part of the game and I'm grateful to the devs for creating a whole new environment from scratch to accommodate them.
People ignoring the outright revolutionary, socially progressive, stereotype breaking foundation of Star Trek, focusing on how "sexist" it is that people that are visiting a tropical pleasure planet are dressed for pleasure and tropical weather.
Seriously.
If a digital bikini *honestly* upsets you, then you need to really look at your life objectively and decide what's really important.
I'd want to go on a longer tirade about how naive and ignorant some of the posters in this thread are, but it's not really relevant and wouldn't accomplish anything.
Comments
EXACTLY. 1000%.
In CO at least, the generic NPCs ALL wear outfits that can be used by the player (although some are rather horrifying). Yes, most of the hostile mob types have their own unique costume parts, but that's to be expected.
But there's no place you can visit where 100% of the 'just standing around' NPCs are wearing something that the player can't obtain. Like how Risa is.
Frankly it's just insulting.
Also, the whole uniform verses off-duty thing needs to go away. Now.
Razira's Primus Database Page
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The uniform/off-duty thing wouldn't upset me so much if I didn't have proof positive that the code already exists to allow outfit desegregation. So it's not even that they'd have to do anything new.
Just implement the code player side.
Yup. There was even a bug a few months ago that allowed you to use (and save and wear) whatever top and bottom you wanted, 'uniform' or 'off-duty' or not.
Razira's Primus Database Page
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I know. I wrote an article about it for Geekparty, and made sure to post up screenshots.
So the proof is saved for posterity, on a video game journalism website, where anyone and everyone who's googling for information about STO can find it.
Because I'm only asking one thing here, and I don't think it's so much to ask.
(article here: http://geekparty.com/legacy-of-romulus-more-like-legacy-of-outfitus/ )
Females: One piece bathing suit with a Sarong at the waist(looking basically like a wrap skirt).
Males: Board shorts and "Hawaiian" Shirt.
Lock them to Risa if need be but pants and long sleeve shirts for men and "Archeologist" attire for women is not suited to a Beach resort environment.
Star Trek was considered quite racy back in the day. :rolleyes:
It's also hard with all these awesome NPC costumes around, and we're stuck with these lame and still buggy super expensive costumes. The whole thing was just such an epic fail.
But let's say you visit Risa 25 times, for the Corvette. If you stick around and finish a Horga'hn Hunt, you get, at an absolute minimum 30 (and usually more like 40) Favors. When you get the corvette, you'll have more than 750 favors. And that's assuming you leave immediately and don't stick around for more hunts.
I'm discounting the Dance Contest, since even though it gets you 25 favors, it's also eye-gougingly tedious to do more than once. Yeesh.
Anyway, yeah, I'll add my voice to the disappointed crowd. It's pretty telling when almost everyone is outright saying to not even bother buying the "Explorer" outfit, since it's so terrible compared to the less-terrible Beachcomber.
I...what?
I just did the hunt. I got fifteen favors. Now, I don't pretend I'm great at grinding or anything, but fifteen is not even remotely like 40.
Have you been speaking to the Hor'gahn sculptor? He gives you 20 favors if you take the mission from him before beginning the hunt.
Allow swimwear and beachwear... whatever range people ask for, but on its own clothing type in the tailor. Also all you to use any of the other clothing types along with it to mix and match. So, say, one of the pairs of pants colored a pastel to look like sweats, with a bikini top, for being on Risa or another beach/sunny/recreational area.
In addition, when your active outfit is the "Recreation" outfit, then all of your offensive/defensive powers, are disabled.
This would effectively rule out wearing recreational-oriented clothing in any combat zone (unless you were committing suicide) and still allow for social functions to occur on your own ship (inviting friends), or on your fleet starbase, or wherever else your group may decide to hold a purely social function.
Running around ESD in a bikini top and shorts/skirt, may not look right in most places, like the shipyard area, but would look totally appropriate in ESD's club. And then, walking to/from the transporter would also be appropriate.
Not allowing Recreation outfits on ESD or in the Academy however, would be a reasonable limitation I think. How many people actually hang out in ESD's club anyways?
The Fleet social functions however would be more likely. There are some fleets, that get together just because they genuinely like each other's company, and getting together to hang out is a normal thing.
Then there is the holodeck. It always seems such a damned shame when I explore a new area somewhere and find a holodeck, and nothing to do in there. If we could be able to roll up a random planetside location (like in some of the 'unexplored' sections of the sector map where it seems like you get thrown into a random environment) in the holodeck, that would be just great.
We could set up our own training sessions... just hang out on a beach or a mountain top, practice with our new skills, experiment with weapons, whatever we needed to do via the holodeck.
That would also be an appropriate place for a Recreation outfit.
I know that it'll never happen (ok, maybe a 4% chance) but still, nice-to-haves...
-- Smoov
Also like the idea of having swimwear or similar, but limit where you can use it. That works for me.
Well, if we get that, then we'll need another slider to adjust how firm/saggy the TRIBBLE are, and 4 more sliders just for the breast-bounce physics alone... .. .
</SARCASM>
Honestly... objectification? We are nowhere even close to approaching that threshold.
-- Smoov
You quoted me out of context. My point was if anything TOS with it's deliberately racey costumes pushing the boundaries of acceptability is better than what we have now on modern television.
Of course it was. It was pushing the limits of what was deemed acceptable in a good way.
I would have hoped that a TV show such as Star Trek that pushes the boundaries having black captains, female captains, asian helmsmen and women, inter racial relations all as positive models wouldn't fall so far back into just having women in skimpy attire like the SF that predated it.
Thing is, you're not swimming on Risa, nor are you sun bathing. (as there is no sun and you won't tan anyway, no matter how much you have on show.) If you're doing it properly, you're flying around in a jetpack exploring a large island, doing some dancing and finding little statues.
You need a swimsuit for that? I think not. Less formal attire, granted.
See, no I have to disagree. Just because you can envisage a worse situation that the one we are in at the moment doesn't mean that it's not that bad. It's a logical fallacy.
We already have sliders that can make the most caricatured versions of what is considered the "ideal" female. You can make TRIBBLE out of proportion with the body type and shape the same can be said about the derriere. There is not a single flat chested female in game, not an NPC nor player, it's just not possible but you can create TRIBBLE so large they would break backs in real life.
One poster said that "in civilised society women sunbathe topless" So really if you start adding swimsuits to the game, you're not far removed from this option being campaigned for as well. The writing is on the wall, quite literally.
Because they're playing the game, and so am I, and, while I'm likely only going to wear mine on Risa, they get to have their fun. It doesn't interfere with my fun. And I'm going to wear mine on Risa because if I'm at the beach, I want to swim, and I want to look good doing it.
Maybe it is not modern TV or what you are arguing against here in the forums but it is what you percieve and how YOU see things and yourself that is the problem? Bathing suits on a beach is acceptable anywhere in the world except some countries and areas where woman Have no rights at all and i believe you would be very against said treatment of no rights and actualy being an object. Yes Some places woman are nothing more than an object and that is NOT here in the USA or EU or GB.
Nobody here is asking for bikini's that is nothing but 2 1 inch squares connected by a thread for a top and a 2X1 bit covering the labia only connected by more thread for a bottom. Simply nothing more than what the NPC's have and is far less objectifying or showing of female skin than what most everyone here see's on a beach during the summer. And they also want equal for male characters so it is not just about female characters.
I am not trying to bag on you but really try to look into what everyone who is not a militant feminist is seeing here rather than what those militant feminists are trying to teach you. And misogyny used out of context or completely wrong and objectification are 2 of a militant feminist favorites for ammo and i have seen you use both. Seriously for your own sake look at the other side of the spectrum all the way to the side you are on and you may see what you feel about everyone else is just wrong or misguided. Please atleast for yourself takle a few steps back and look at things objectivly without all the feminist talk rattling around in the background guiding you as well as your own self esteem and how you feel about yourself.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
I was looking at it objectively. You're (plural) all so busy trying to flame me and tell me to "get back into the kitchen" (misogyny) that you aren't listening to what I'm saying.
I live in GB, I have seen for myself and have seen in my own personal experience what things are like for women. I know first hand, what it's like with less than pleasant experiences and you want to tell me I'm wrong. You are drawing ridiculous parallels, yes it is worse in some countries, that doesn't mean it's perfect here. That's a logical fallacy.
See here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AppealToWorseProblems
Just because you can't perceive a problem doesn't mean there isn't one.
I have said the following:
1. I wanted beachwear, since we are not actually swimming at all by any stretch of the imagination. However, I didn't want to turn this into Burlesque online: now featuring featuring jetpacks. Which is what it could and possibly still will turn into given the attitudes displayed by some of the player base.
2. I resent the implication and outright statement in this very thread no less, that unless some players can have their big breasted gun toting bikini babes in all aspects of the game at all times the game isn't worth playing. I also object to more than one thread being started about the topic.
3. I don't think it should get to the stage where "creating sliders for nipple pertness and breast bounce physics" as was referred to earlier in this thread.
4. I object to the idea of topless sunbathing on Risa, again suggested in this thread.
5. I don't want it to get to the stage as it has in reality where dental floss is considered clothing.
5. I object to having my character relentlessly propositioned by other players in this game. Who want me to dress in such a way.
6. Time and money would be better spent in game creating actual content or fixing bugs, not just "eye candy" for a male majority for a short period of time.
None of this is militant feminism. It's just basically common sense.
You don't want to see any of my arguments fine. You don't want to listen fine. You want your "swimsuits" for whatever reason except swimming which isn't possible in game, fine. I'm still entitled to object to it same as any other thing in this game and I will continue to do so. That is the price you pay for free speech.
You and I have different views on feminism. I don't pretend to know your mind, but from what you've posted you sound like part of the skimpy clothes are "empowering" camp. I don't and will not ever subscribe to that philosophy. Nor do I subscribe to appeasement as a viable path to liberation. That's up to you though and is perfectly valid, but will only get you so far.
I am not telling you what to think, but rather I am asking you to think about the points I have made. The fact that there is truth in what I am saying however slight, is why people have responded so angrily to it, else you would have ignored it and let the topic die.
Or perhaps she just doesn't view one-piece swimsuits as skimpy at all and simply wants to look appropriate for the setting. By and large, they're considered to be conservative. You're the only person here that's suggesting they aren't.
More skin =/= sexual objectification.
Regardless, the problem isn't objectification, the problem is that everyone is too overdressed for a tropical beachfront resort. You suggested sun dresses and beach hats. I agree, that's appropriate for the setting. I suggest one-piece bathing suits for women, and board shorts with a tank top and shirtless option for men. These are also appropriate for the setting, as evidenced by real life.
I haven't suggested that one piece bathing suits are skimpy. I have however said that bathing suits that are three handkerchiefs tied together with string are and is as you so put it evidenced by real life laws against public nudity.
As I said before, a woman was arrested for wearing a thong to the beach in South Carolina in the US of A. I would imagine a man would have also. I would invite you to look up the any and all laws regarding swimming costumes at your local beach.
Yes I suggested sundresses and beach hats. That's appropriate beachwear, particularly if you're not going swimming or sunbathing. Neither of which you can actually do on Risa. I have no issue with one piece bathing suits.
For the final time, the issue I have is with actual skimpy, risque outfits being placed in game. I invite you to look up this word and apply it in context, you might be unpleasantly surprised.
If you (plural) are all so confident about what sexual objectification is not. DEFINE it in no uncertain terms for me using references as appropriate.
Here is a definition for you, that Google found for me in 2 seconds:
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/sexual+objectification
My arguments have been consistent with this definition as presented, however uncomfortable this be for some.
Not on the new map, but on the old Risa, the water is fairly deep.
1. This seems to be moot. Example: We are not in the TOS era, yet have TOS uniforms. We do not play in the Alternate Future, yet have Alternate Future uniforms. Not being able to swim does not and should not make the presence of bathing suits an issue. That seems like a silly excuse in a game that goes out of its way to fulfill fantasies.
2. You need to understand and accept that for some people, that does make the game not worth playing. There seems to be a difficulty on your part to objectively imagine differing points of view; it's your vision for the game or no vision. That's fine, but let's not pretend it's anything other than personal subjectivity under the guise of objectivity and morality.
3. Agreed. I don't see how those things add to the game as it is. In all cases I support more options, but those options specifically come dangerously close to skirting the ESRB rating on this game.
4. Agreed. See #3.
5. Welcome to the real world, where people have attractions and lack the social grace to keep them in check. It's never going to change; tell them to move along, you're not interested.
6. And in this case, welcome to business. That "male majority" buys things and PWE wants to sell things. If they can sell more of this stuff by appealing to the sentimentality of the male majority, you can bet they will. The only solution you're going to have is to spend your money on a game that caters to a more open audience. I wonder if you would expect the same sorts of things had you been playing Call of Duty or Battlefield? It doesn't get more "dudebro" than those titles.
Your definition of feminism is one of many. Don't disparage his/her comfort with the situation just because you're unhappy with it.
Final thought: You appear to be advocating against the presence of "skimpy" outfits (a subjective terminology if ever there was one) because of a personal aversion to them. So instead of putting yourself in a more acceptable situation, you want to enforce your own morality/subjectivity on the rest of us (I don't include myself as I'm perfectly ambivalent to the issue of bathing-suits in this game). That's the problem with any form of activism: if they can't win on the merits of their argument, they try to change the terms of the conversation; if they can't change the conversation, they try to change the rules. The goal is to impose their worldview on everyone else, regardless of how people feel about it. It's one of the most ironic and hypocritical forms of political action I can imagine.
Yes and no. There are things we can't have in this game. A Borg faction, a Tier 5 Constitution class to name a few issues.
If you're playing this game for a specific concept like that, I would suggest you are playing the wrong game.
So because you can sell anything with a scantily clad woman, that makes it the correct thing to do? What happened to I dunno, selling something to someone because it was worth buying...
I didn't disparage anyone, I identified it and stated that I don't agree with it. Her view is not superior to mine, just because it is a view of feminism that ironically appeals to men. I stated it was equally valid as mine. You are disparaging mine, because you don't agree with it.
I don't have an aversion to them. I disagree with the idea that this game requires them in order to sell. I disagree with the entire concept that you advocate. You have not presented a solution to this problem short of telling me to leave. That is unacceptable and hypocritical.
Um no, I've not changed any rules or the conversation. It is you as a group that are changing the rules of the conversation in an attempt to flame me. You clearly have not read all my posts, told me what I think and then proceeded to ignore my perfectly fair question of defining the things you say are so subjective.
Ironic that in trying to silence me and maintain the status quo, you are the one projecting your world view regardless of how I feel about it and anyone that may agree with me.
Having said that, I noticed my Winterjacket makes for a really good Rocketeer look when I strap on my jet pack.
Edit: Ooooooo, I just found the Rocketeer theme music on iTunes. Im going to fly around to that to go with my Rocketeer jacket and jetpack.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
You still can't swim. No matter how deep the water. It's just not in the coding, yet.
Hehehehe I'd noticed that too.
I think the Tuxedos make the guys look like James Bond and that's pretty cool.
To be honest the Jetpacks are the most awesome part of the game and I'm grateful to the devs for creating a whole new environment from scratch to accommodate them.
People ignoring the outright revolutionary, socially progressive, stereotype breaking foundation of Star Trek, focusing on how "sexist" it is that people that are visiting a tropical pleasure planet are dressed for pleasure and tropical weather.
Seriously.
If a digital bikini *honestly* upsets you, then you need to really look at your life objectively and decide what's really important.
I'd want to go on a longer tirade about how naive and ignorant some of the posters in this thread are, but it's not really relevant and wouldn't accomplish anything.