I don't care if women wear bikinis, or whatever. But, I want to wear swim trunks and go shirtless, because it's freaking ridiculous for me to be on vacation on a tropical beach planet wearing either a uniform, or a tuxedo. The closest I can get to actually looking like I belong there is to wear the TOS medical short sleeve shirt, recolor it, and wear tight pants and make them blue jean color.
While we're at it, toss in a hawaiin shirt. I'd like an open shirt option for that as well.
PS- Also, if we go this entire event without my Caitian being able to wear the sunglasses I paid for 10k latinum apiece, I'm going to rename my ship the USS Hello Kitty, and run around acting like a Japanese cat girl(even though I play a male Caitian).
I am not satisfied with the new costumes available. I think this because:
I wanted more conservative options and the majority wanted less conservative options.
I am also disappointed because I do not believe that any of the costumes are representative of a modern civilised society.
We respectfully disagree on this matter.
I think we can disagree on what might considered appropriate while still all being happy with a greater costume selection. More conservative and non-conservative options would please everyone. We all want more choices.
I think we can disagree on what might considered appropriate while still all being happy with a greater costume selection. More conservative and non-conservative options would please everyone. We all want more choices.
Yes, I completely agree. More choice for all and not just extremes on either side of the prude scale. That would certainly make me happy.
I don't care if it's bikinis, one pieces, speedos, Swim Trunks or Burkinis. We should have some option for swimwear on Risa. It seems really odd not to, considering how low quality the current Risa clothing options are and the fact that Every NPC seems to have access to these clothing options that we do not.
When I first saw the new costumes I thought the devs were trolling. The person who mentioned potato sacks was right on the money.
Maybe they just don't want to cut into sales of mirror universe uniforms? I could imagine for obvious reasons that those uniforms are the only ones that consistently sell...
I wanted a beach dress and a sunhat with a floral garland and maybe a nice exciting hairstyle. I said as much earlier.
I didn't get these and I'm disappointed.
I am not satisfied with the new costumes available. I think this because:
I wanted more conservative options and the majority wanted less conservative options.
I am also disappointed because I do not believe that any of the costumes are representative of a modern civilised society.
We respectfully disagree on this matter.
I think there should have been more conservative options. I've got a character who would have totally worn a full swimming dress. But OOPS! I can't do that, because even the 'formal' clothing options show stupid amounts of skin.
I would have given my left maple nut for nothing more than having the shorts not be off-duty clothing. I would have used them with an open jacket top, and could have done all sorts of things with them. BUT NOPE!
Did I want less conservative options, too? Sure. Because I have characters of all sorts of personalities, all of whom might wear any number of types of clothes. But apparently, Cryptic has decided that what I really want is a ship I'll never fly (at a cost I'll never grind enough to pay), and a jetpack I don't even like enough to buy more than one rental of.
I hope the resort map becomes the permanent Risa map, because otherwise this entire event was a complete waste of time for me.
ETA: Also? A beach hat and a sun dress would have been fantastic in every single way, and I would have greatly enjoyed having those, too.
Objectificaton is not a good argument for the having/not having of any particular outfit. The reason being, objectification is not about what one is wearing, but rather, what role one is forced in to. The female open jackets, for example, are objectifying not because they show cleavage, but because females are forced to do so whether they want to or not. There is no other option for having open jackets, and thus, women are told "this is what you must look like".
The lack of ability to put skirts on men is just as objectifying, because we, as players, are being told what males in this universe are "supposed" to be and look like.
So I don't find it a very compelling reason to not have any particular outfit. And in this case, it's even more absurd, because there's already plenty of skimpy clothing on all the NPCs. Why can't I look as good as an NPC? What am I paying for, exactly?
When I landed at the summer event and saw all the NPC's in bathing suits and bikinis I though, finally they are going to give us a bathing suit option for the Federation side but what do we get..... shorts or a marginally different shirt and pants set......
DISAPPOINTED!........
I would have loved to see Bathing suits available also. However you'll notice that every female wearing a bathing suit has a "bathing suit body". I can imagine that as it's skin tight and it's not a cover all outfit that it would clip like crazy on anything which is not a slim body. Same reason I guess as to why Caitans, Saurians and Gorn can't wear shades, it would just clip right through their faces, well Saurians don't have noses so that's probably the reason there. They'd keep sliding off.
Objectificaton is not a good argument for the having/not having of any particular outfit. The reason being, objectification is not about what one is wearing, but rather, what role one is forced in to. The female open jackets, for example, are objectifying not because they show cleavage, but because females are forced to do so whether they want to or not. There is no other option for having open jackets, and thus, women are told "this is what you must look like".
The lack of ability to put skirts on men is just as objectifying, because we, as players, are being told what males in this universe are "supposed" to be and look like.
So I don't find it a very compelling reason to not have any particular outfit. And in this case, it's even more absurd, because there's already plenty of skimpy clothing on all the NPCs. Why can't I look as good as an NPC? What am I paying for, exactly?
Yes, I completely agree. More choice for all and not just extremes on either side of the prude scale. That would certainly make me happy.
I concur. I would love to see more militaryand space marine style options unlockable as uniform options to mix with what we currently have. And we definatnely need more of everyhting, with in reason.
Imperial Secret Order. "we are the ones that maintain the balance of power in the universe. May our shadow never fall upon you."
I would have loved to see Bathing suits available also. However you'll notice that every female wearing a bathing suit has a "bathing suit body". I can imagine that as it's skin tight and it's not a cover all outfit that it would clip like crazy on anything which is not a slim body. Same reason I guess as to why Caitans, Saurians and Gorn can't wear shades, it would just clip right through their faces, well Saurians don't have noses so that's probably the reason there. They'd keep sliding off.
I think they should take the time to redo the whole charcater tailor system to be more robust. I would love to see some of th eoptions brought over from Champions Online, redone to better fit with the 25th century theme. I would also love to see what would be considered armor for both Orions and Gorn, both of those would be interesting to see visualized.
But yes, season 8 or 9 should be the tailor/ charcater creater update, with more alien gen options as well as some of the other Cat races, like Lt. M'ress from the animated series. this should include tails and ears as well as other features like a scale hide option for skin.
Imperial Secret Order. "we are the ones that maintain the balance of power in the universe. May our shadow never fall upon you."
At the risk of going off topic, the issues you describe are the negative effects of the objectification, which is what I disagree with. The actual objectification in it's truest definition is to use an item for gratification.
The gender segregation and the lack of "drag" options is sexism and heteronormativism not objectification. Sexual objectification is "admiring" a female for her large mammary glands or derriere and not as the human being attached to them (or the male equivalents). Semantically speaking wearing something on your toon "because it makes them look attractive" counts as objectification. As they have become a vehicle for your base sexual desires and or expectations, consciously or unconsciously.
You can deny this exists all you want, but in this thread someone posted that they wanted to dress themselves and their Boffs as Bikini Commandos and there are many more that share this attitude. Portraying a video game character in such a way is dehumanising in that sense and is not representative in the same way as pornography isn't representative of sex, although it is frequently being viewed as such, particularly by young people.
Now I'm not advocating a total ban on sexuality, or the covering of table legs or the removal of clothing options as has been suggested by other people in this thread but I am saying that making anatomically impossible characters, placing them in as little clothing as possible and running around is a little degrading male or female. The solution to it isn't to just throw dresses and open shirts at male toons and trousers at female toons, but to work on the underlying gender roles and the accompanying expectations and attitudes.
Things such as Kilts are traditional dress for Scottish and Irish people and there are swimming costumes that are well, for swimming. These I have no problem with. But things that tread the line of "sex sells" is probably not a good reason for putting it in game.
I concur. I would love to see more militaryand space marine style options unlockable as uniform options to mix with what we currently have. And we definatnely need more of everyhting, with in reason.
Now this is definitely off topic, but where is the MACO outfit as seen in Enterprise? OK it wasn't the best but it was the closest thing to modern military wear we've seen in Trek.
At the risk of going off topic, the issues you describe are the negative effects of the objectification, which is what I disagree with. The actual objectification in it's truest definition is to use an item for gratification.
The gender segregation and the lack of "drag" options is sexism and heteronormativism not objectification. Sexual objectification is "admiring" a female for her large mammary glands or derriere and not as the human being attached to them (or the male equivalents). Semantically speaking wearing something on your toon "because it makes them look attractive" counts as objectification. As they have become a vehicle for your base sexual desires and or expectations, consciously or unconsciously.
You can deny this exists all you want, but in this thread someone posted that they wanted to dress themselves and their Boffs as Bikini Commandos and there are many more that share this attitude. Portraying a video game character in such a way is dehumanising in that sense and is not representative in the same way as pornography isn't representative of sex, although it is frequently being viewed as such, particularly by young people.
Now I'm not advocating a total ban on sexuality, or the covering of table legs or the removal of clothing options as has been suggested by other people in this thread but I am saying that making anatomically impossible characters, placing them in as little clothing as possible and running around is a little degrading male or female. The solution to it isn't to just throw dresses and open shirts at male toons and trousers at female toons, but to work on the underlying gender roles and the accompanying expectations and attitudes.
On the other hand, our toons are objects. Like, literally. They are objects for our amusement. That really is their entire purpose. They do not have feelings, emotions, opinions, or desires. We, the players, are the people who have those.
Thus, I really feel that the only way to de facto objectify a gender, in terms of the game itself, is via what the game forces on us. Because when the game enforces a certain look, what they are saying is "Your toon will look this specific way, regardless of what you desire". That's why the open jackets for females that dont' give you the option of a shirt are objectifying, because it's saying "You, the player, have no choice in what this looks like. We want you representing this particular fashion style". We, as a player, become an object for what the Dev team thinks Trek ought to look like, instead of being able to command our own opinions and desires.
Things such as Kilts are traditional dress for Scottish and Irish people and there are swimming costumes that are well, for swimming. These I have no problem with. But things that tread the line of "sex sells" is probably not a good reason for putting it in game.
Now you just made Gene Roddenberry and William Ware Theiss turn over in their graves.
Now this is definitely off topic, but where is the MACO outfit as seen in Enterprise? OK it wasn't the best but it was the closest thing to modern military wear we've seen in Trek.
Now you just made Gene Roddenberry and William Ware Theiss turn over in their graves.
No you see, TOS was tasteful and somewhat respectful of women for a 1960s television show. There was flesh, but no where near as much as now. Compare the Kartrashians with the women in TOS, completeley different.
Roddenberry is probably back up the right way now after what JJ did to Trek...
That's why the open jackets for females that dont' give you the option of a shirt are objectifying, because it's saying "You, the player, have no choice in what this looks like. We want you representing this particular fashion style". We, as a player, become an object for what the Dev team thinks Trek ought to look like, instead of being able to command our own opinions and desires.
It's objectifying because it only exists to say we know a lot of guys play this game and that they make female toons and they have capitalised on it. The male open jackets follow the example set by the great JLP, female open jackets have only one, very obvious reason for existence.
Frankly, I'd just like more options, be it the "Unrestricted" coding for the tailor, swimsuits (running the gamut of styles, and maybe only useable on Risa), and/or a larger variety for the KDF and Rommie costume selection. I just like having tons of different costume setups for my characters. It was probably one of my biggest spending points back when they were still regularly adding costumes to the C-Store, and where a fair bit of my Lobi has gone.
WOW admiring the human form is now objectification! So everytime i see a beutifull woman I am now objectifying her because I think she is attractive and even better i dont even have to make it a concious thought! So our very genetic makeup turns all men and women into objectifying degenerates objectifying the opposite and or same sex! Feminists, so silly when they blow things out of proportion and fly all the way to looney land.
OT: Can we atleast get male shorts? There is nothing sexual or objectifying about male shorts. I am wearing a pair right now and the mailman that just walked by is wearing a pair. I have seen police officers wearing them though I think thats not the best choice considering how roughed up the knees will be if they have to wrestle a criminal to the ground. I cant see men not wearing shorts when its hot and they are off duty in the 25th century. rolled up pants as the only option is really bad.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Now this is definitely off topic, but where is the MACO outfit as seen in Enterprise? OK it wasn't the best but it was the closest thing to modern military wear we've seen in Trek.
I want those as well. When I first heard about the MACO reputation gear I was hoping that this was it. Hopefully we get something like that in a future outfit c-store pack. I'll definitely buy.
Imperial Secret Order. "we are the ones that maintain the balance of power in the universe. May our shadow never fall upon you."
Swimwear, despite now nice one think it is, ultimate is not something that should be casual wear and even less professional wear.
Starfleet does have some military regulations and as I suppose the KDF is more lax there are still traditional and will reflect so in their choices.
I have no problem with swimwear as long its only applied in Risa and similar worlds ONLY, not being used as a excuse to parade around in all social areas ... that is pretty much what some seem to want to do.
Some of us enjoy this game for RP reasons, and thus enjoy being able to have a variety of 'off-duty' outfits. Since the off-duty clothing options are pathetic at best, that leaves us with re-coloring uniform options.
But of course, that leaves us with a majority of clothing that count as uniforms (which, let's be honest, most outfits STO comes out with are Uniforms). So segregation of the outfits winds up leaving us with very few clothing style options.
It's even worse when we do a TRIBBLE ton of grinding to get an outfit, only to find out that the outfit can only be used with itself (I'm not even kidding when I say I didn't log into the game for almost two weeks after finding out that the Omega outfit was in a category by itself).
Not everyone plays the game for the same reasons, and not everyone who wants skimpy clothing does so because it lets us look at female anatomy. Some of us want the option to RP a character who dresses skimpily, for RP reasons.
Not getting swimwear for the Summer Event and seeing how the off-duty clothes were not working well with other selectable outfits really soured the event. Worse is that the NPCs mock the players by wearing those sexy swimwear outfits we can't have. IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE THE PLAYERS SWIMWEAR, THE NPCS SHOULD NOT BE WEARING THEM!!! I think it was rude of developers to let the NPCs have what the players wanted, especially if they were trying to not objectify women.
I suggest that either the players get the swimwear or the NPCs lose them.
Completely agree with Velqua, WE get them or NPC's loose them. and lets not forget there are a few cannon episodes of star trek with swimsuits, Also the infamous Klingon Cleavage either.
When was the last time you went to a resort warring full battle armour? I bought the sunglasses because they look good, that's it, I wont be playing any other games because my char sun bathing in a duty uniform looks weird!
Swimsuits, clearly, should have been an option. If not swimsuits, then something that blends in with the setting far more.
A long sun dress is a nice idea, as is a sun hat.
Speedos for those who want them and, yes, bikinis too.
On Risa, we're at a beach resort. We should be able to dress like it.
All those options should have been available for Risa. Especialy for RPers who could wear the sundress at night and around the clubhouse or don the bathing suit to get in the water even if its only waste deep or lounge on one of the lounge chairs on the beach.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
And lets not forget, that traditional Betazed customs require everyone to go naked! clothes in that society are positively frowned on LOL
The first season of TNG had men and women in dresses, men in mini skirts even, hell if Rodenbery had is way, he would have had women in boiler suits and men in bikinis because in the 24th century we had gone beyond the petty concerns of stereo types! In his universe, if you went to the beach, you would probably have seen men in a revealing two-piece.
Comments
While we're at it, toss in a hawaiin shirt. I'd like an open shirt option for that as well.
PS- Also, if we go this entire event without my Caitian being able to wear the sunglasses I paid for 10k latinum apiece, I'm going to rename my ship the USS Hello Kitty, and run around acting like a Japanese cat girl(even though I play a male Caitian).
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
I think we can disagree on what might considered appropriate while still all being happy with a greater costume selection. More conservative and non-conservative options would please everyone. We all want more choices.
Yes, I completely agree. More choice for all and not just extremes on either side of the prude scale. That would certainly make me happy.
Maybe they just don't want to cut into sales of mirror universe uniforms? I could imagine for obvious reasons that those uniforms are the only ones that consistently sell...
I didn't get these and I'm disappointed.
Please resolve, post haste.
I think there should have been more conservative options. I've got a character who would have totally worn a full swimming dress. But OOPS! I can't do that, because even the 'formal' clothing options show stupid amounts of skin.
I would have given my left maple nut for nothing more than having the shorts not be off-duty clothing. I would have used them with an open jacket top, and could have done all sorts of things with them. BUT NOPE!
Did I want less conservative options, too? Sure. Because I have characters of all sorts of personalities, all of whom might wear any number of types of clothes. But apparently, Cryptic has decided that what I really want is a ship I'll never fly (at a cost I'll never grind enough to pay), and a jetpack I don't even like enough to buy more than one rental of.
I hope the resort map becomes the permanent Risa map, because otherwise this entire event was a complete waste of time for me.
ETA: Also? A beach hat and a sun dress would have been fantastic in every single way, and I would have greatly enjoyed having those, too.
Oh and my male Caitian won't feel objectified if he can take off his shirt. He's a cat, he prefers not to wear clothes.:D
I'll try again, then.
Objectificaton is not a good argument for the having/not having of any particular outfit. The reason being, objectification is not about what one is wearing, but rather, what role one is forced in to. The female open jackets, for example, are objectifying not because they show cleavage, but because females are forced to do so whether they want to or not. There is no other option for having open jackets, and thus, women are told "this is what you must look like".
The lack of ability to put skirts on men is just as objectifying, because we, as players, are being told what males in this universe are "supposed" to be and look like.
So I don't find it a very compelling reason to not have any particular outfit. And in this case, it's even more absurd, because there's already plenty of skimpy clothing on all the NPCs. Why can't I look as good as an NPC? What am I paying for, exactly?
I would have loved to see Bathing suits available also. However you'll notice that every female wearing a bathing suit has a "bathing suit body". I can imagine that as it's skin tight and it's not a cover all outfit that it would clip like crazy on anything which is not a slim body. Same reason I guess as to why Caitans, Saurians and Gorn can't wear shades, it would just clip right through their faces, well Saurians don't have noses so that's probably the reason there. They'd keep sliding off.
I agree.
(I also want my kilt damnabits.)
I concur. I would love to see more militaryand space marine style options unlockable as uniform options to mix with what we currently have. And we definatnely need more of everyhting, with in reason.
I think they should take the time to redo the whole charcater tailor system to be more robust. I would love to see some of th eoptions brought over from Champions Online, redone to better fit with the 25th century theme. I would also love to see what would be considered armor for both Orions and Gorn, both of those would be interesting to see visualized.
But yes, season 8 or 9 should be the tailor/ charcater creater update, with more alien gen options as well as some of the other Cat races, like Lt. M'ress from the animated series. this should include tails and ears as well as other features like a scale hide option for skin.
At the risk of going off topic, the issues you describe are the negative effects of the objectification, which is what I disagree with. The actual objectification in it's truest definition is to use an item for gratification.
The gender segregation and the lack of "drag" options is sexism and heteronormativism not objectification. Sexual objectification is "admiring" a female for her large mammary glands or derriere and not as the human being attached to them (or the male equivalents). Semantically speaking wearing something on your toon "because it makes them look attractive" counts as objectification. As they have become a vehicle for your base sexual desires and or expectations, consciously or unconsciously.
You can deny this exists all you want, but in this thread someone posted that they wanted to dress themselves and their Boffs as Bikini Commandos and there are many more that share this attitude. Portraying a video game character in such a way is dehumanising in that sense and is not representative in the same way as pornography isn't representative of sex, although it is frequently being viewed as such, particularly by young people.
Now I'm not advocating a total ban on sexuality, or the covering of table legs or the removal of clothing options as has been suggested by other people in this thread but I am saying that making anatomically impossible characters, placing them in as little clothing as possible and running around is a little degrading male or female. The solution to it isn't to just throw dresses and open shirts at male toons and trousers at female toons, but to work on the underlying gender roles and the accompanying expectations and attitudes.
Things such as Kilts are traditional dress for Scottish and Irish people and there are swimming costumes that are well, for swimming. These I have no problem with. But things that tread the line of "sex sells" is probably not a good reason for putting it in game.
Now this is definitely off topic, but where is the MACO outfit as seen in Enterprise? OK it wasn't the best but it was the closest thing to modern military wear we've seen in Trek.
On the other hand, our toons are objects. Like, literally. They are objects for our amusement. That really is their entire purpose. They do not have feelings, emotions, opinions, or desires. We, the players, are the people who have those.
Thus, I really feel that the only way to de facto objectify a gender, in terms of the game itself, is via what the game forces on us. Because when the game enforces a certain look, what they are saying is "Your toon will look this specific way, regardless of what you desire". That's why the open jackets for females that dont' give you the option of a shirt are objectifying, because it's saying "You, the player, have no choice in what this looks like. We want you representing this particular fashion style". We, as a player, become an object for what the Dev team thinks Trek ought to look like, instead of being able to command our own opinions and desires.
Now you just made Gene Roddenberry and William Ware Theiss turn over in their graves.
What he said!
Maco outfit = where?!
Roddenberry is probably back up the right way now after what JJ did to Trek...
It's objectifying because it only exists to say we know a lot of guys play this game and that they make female toons and they have capitalised on it. The male open jackets follow the example set by the great JLP, female open jackets have only one, very obvious reason for existence.
OT: Can we atleast get male shorts? There is nothing sexual or objectifying about male shorts. I am wearing a pair right now and the mailman that just walked by is wearing a pair. I have seen police officers wearing them though I think thats not the best choice considering how roughed up the knees will be if they have to wrestle a criminal to the ground. I cant see men not wearing shorts when its hot and they are off duty in the 25th century. rolled up pants as the only option is really bad.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
I want those as well. When I first heard about the MACO reputation gear I was hoping that this was it. Hopefully we get something like that in a future outfit c-store pack. I'll definitely buy.
Some of us enjoy this game for RP reasons, and thus enjoy being able to have a variety of 'off-duty' outfits. Since the off-duty clothing options are pathetic at best, that leaves us with re-coloring uniform options.
But of course, that leaves us with a majority of clothing that count as uniforms (which, let's be honest, most outfits STO comes out with are Uniforms). So segregation of the outfits winds up leaving us with very few clothing style options.
It's even worse when we do a TRIBBLE ton of grinding to get an outfit, only to find out that the outfit can only be used with itself (I'm not even kidding when I say I didn't log into the game for almost two weeks after finding out that the Omega outfit was in a category by itself).
Not everyone plays the game for the same reasons, and not everyone who wants skimpy clothing does so because it lets us look at female anatomy. Some of us want the option to RP a character who dresses skimpily, for RP reasons.
Agreed. And you make a hugely important point, perhaps without realising it.
The standard for objectification is a moving target, and not only in one direction.
The Victorians covered up piano legs because they may cause lacisivious thoughts.
Centuries earlier, the Romans had a somewhat different view.
Swimsuits, clearly, should have been an option. If not swimsuits, then something that blends in with the setting far more.
A long sun dress is a nice idea, as is a sun hat.
Speedos for those who want them and, yes, bikinis too.
On Risa, we're at a beach resort. We should be able to dress like it.
However, the accusation of objectification that has been thrown at some posters in this thread is not justified.
Until I see someone on this thread asking for a slider bar for pertness of nipples we aren't there yet.....not by a long shot.
Not getting swimwear for the Summer Event and seeing how the off-duty clothes were not working well with other selectable outfits really soured the event. Worse is that the NPCs mock the players by wearing those sexy swimwear outfits we can't have. IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE THE PLAYERS SWIMWEAR, THE NPCS SHOULD NOT BE WEARING THEM!!! I think it was rude of developers to let the NPCs have what the players wanted, especially if they were trying to not objectify women.
I suggest that either the players get the swimwear or the NPCs lose them.
When was the last time you went to a resort warring full battle armour? I bought the sunglasses because they look good, that's it, I wont be playing any other games because my char sun bathing in a duty uniform looks weird!
All those options should have been available for Risa. Especialy for RPers who could wear the sundress at night and around the clubhouse or don the bathing suit to get in the water even if its only waste deep or lounge on one of the lounge chairs on the beach.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
The first season of TNG had men and women in dresses, men in mini skirts even, hell if Rodenbery had is way, he would have had women in boiler suits and men in bikinis because in the 24th century we had gone beyond the petty concerns of stereo types! In his universe, if you went to the beach, you would probably have seen men in a revealing two-piece.