Let me first say that I appreciate the spirit and agenda of this blog, but I have to point out some things.
Star Trek was revolutionary for its depiction of racial and gender diversity.
Except for avoiding the issue of homosexuality until well after it became a mainstream part of American television. Sure, we can twist that Riker episode any which way, but the 23rd century was chauvinistic and the 24th century was heterosexual. Sure, the spirit of IDIC and all that... Star Trek was cowardly for the most part.
Star Trek changed that. Instead, Sulu was part of the leadership team, spoke without an accent, and was the best pilot in Starfleet, to boot.
Sulu had one scene as a fencer. I don't remember other leadership roles, other than stock footage of him at the helm.
Having Pavel Chekov, a Russian genius, work alongside Americans as part of the leadership team of the Enterprise was a huge leap forward.
This is some of the worst GR propaganda. He was a Davy Jones character who provided teen appeal and comic relief because Russians inwented everything, which was a running gag that was about as anti-Soviet as you can imagine.
Nichelle was thinking of leaving the series to return to musical theater; however, a chance meeting with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., changed her mind.
This story may be pure fiction. Just look at her memoirs and interviews. In some cases, it was a phone call. In other cases, it was a chance encounter at an event. It probably never happened. If you can't remember exactly how you met MLK Jr., then you probably never met MLK Jr.
Plato?s Stepchild,? Uhura and Kirk lock lips in the first scripted interracial kiss on television.
It was a forced kiss, made to enhance the evil of the godlike aliens. That is not exactly something to celebrate. The fact that it was unnatural was part of the drama.
T?Pol becomes infected with the deadly disease.
Except T'pol was forced, not a rational person choosing to love someone. It's like pity the victim of the blood transfusion for getting the disease of the "deviants."
In ?Let That Be Your Last Battlefield,?
Yes, good episode, but the theme might have been far more relevant when Amos N. Andy was on the air.
?The Outcast,?
Ah, here we go. I will just say that much has been written about this episode, but it doesn't change the fact that it's about a heterosexual relationship that is "normal" to the TV audience. That it's not normal to the aliens is weird. Darn those aliens who force their people to be weird.
My fleet, Stonewall Fleet, is a TRIBBLE, TRIBBLE, bisexual, transgender and straight ally fleet, and every year we celebrate our own corner of diversity by hosting a weekend of events in remembrance of our name sake, the Stonewall Rebellion.
Good for you guys and gals.
Gene Rodenberry?s original vision of Star Trek was that the Enterprise was a sort of Starship Earth. He wanted to depict all races, genders and nationalities working together to solve problems.
Yawn. Yes, I am a Trekkie. No, I do not overlook the actual portrayal of women, minorities, and evil communists in the original Star Trek. GR loved to say things like this, in between the womanizing. There are some elements, yes. But, it's ridiculous to ascribe the comic relief Russian, the black secretary, and the no-lines Asian helmsman to some massive social statement about diversity and IDIC and all that from a Hollywood producer trying to make money.
Will and Grace has a better track record than Star Trek. So did Roseanne, Cheers, and other shows.
Regardless, thanks for what you do with your fleet.
So, obviously this topic is devisive, and controversial. Brandon had to know that when he was deciding to post it. i don't plan on sharing my personal opinion on the topic of the Blog, but rather my comment is this.
If the company is going to publish a blog on a topic sure to generate strong response (like this one), then they should make absolutely certain that misspellings like Ricker instead of Riker (multiple times misspelled) or Flox instead of Phlox do not occur. These are pretty easy names to find proper spellings on. Ever hear of Memory alpha ... or the credits of the show the characters appear in?
It makes it look like no one at Cryptic even had a look over the blog. That not even one editing pass was done, because those errors are pretty blatant. So, the problem for me , is that a very controversial blog topic is posted to the front page, and it looks like Cryptic never even read it or looked it over.
Whatever your feelings on the content of the blog. The presentation of the thing has left a VERY unprofessional image.
I couldn't agree more. This issue of gender preference is just inappropriate for a game that does not address any such issue or include it as a mechanic of gameplay. I'm all for being anything you want to be. What I am not for is needlessly inciting argument where the subject is not even applicable.
A game developer allowing someone to further an unrelated socio-political agenda on their front page looks extremely unprofessional.
When I first saw that I was a little kid, and I decided that women kissing is boring, and thus went to watch the less boring Star Wars with laser swords.
It had no effect on me, but then again I was not an impressionable child.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I think I'm speechless, which is unusual for me. I'm a TRIBBLE gamer. If you know what to look for, yeah, you can probably tell given my ships' names. One thing I've loved about STO is that I haven't seen a lot of the usual TRIBBLE-bashing that I've seen in other MMO's. It might be there, but I've never actually seen it. Which has been good.
Klingons: Today, is a good day to die. Federation: Today, no one needs to die. Romulans: Today is a good day for somebody else to die.
I think I'm speechless, which is unusual for me. I'm a TRIBBLE gamer. If you know what to look for, yeah, you can probably tell given my ships' names. One thing I've loved about STO is that I haven't seen a lot of the usual TRIBBLE-bashing that I've seen in other MMO's. It might be there, but I've never actually seen it. Which has been good.
Your signature is nice
Especially the Romulan's part.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
After reading ops blog on Pride day i have but
one brief comment we didn't celebrate Jewish American Month African American month or Latino month but we celebrate Pride month?
I thought Star Trek would be more open to Infinite Diveristy Infinite Combinations...and not just pride month
i will be boycotting those days of in pride..because other cultures dont get equal time
The good of the few do not outweigh the good of the many..
we didnt celebrate any other cultural diversity months why celebrate TRIBBLE pride?
This isn't just a celebration for TRIBBLE pride; it's about diversity and equality for all. The other ones you mentioned in your previous post were specific.
As for your "good of the few do not outweigh the good of the many" line; it should also be pointed out that the good of few doesn't necessarily impact the good of the many nor should the desires of the many trample on the desires of the few.
Cryptic is not making the event, its a community event created by the player base, cryptic and PWE support it, just like they support PVP
ESD is not going to be colored in rainbows...it's not an event like the year anniversary or winter or summer, or the European event...it's an event like the PVP boot camps, and Klingon event where the players are doing it, and Cryptic and PWE just nod and say cool.
If you want to have player run event for Hispanics , Blacks or for people who like cartoons meant for little girls, then go ahead no one is stopping you, but apparently you guys did not.
So get off your lazy butts and create one, becasue Cryptic is not going to do it for you, just like they did not do this event, the players did.
The problem isn't that they are running this event. The problem is that PWE is highlighting this event and will refuse to highlight other events if they are not from favored groups. If you don't believe that, then you just aren't being realistic. They are selecting winners and losers on a somewhat controversial area and bringing in political debate when it is supposed to be excluded from these forums. Call it diversity if you want, but like much of the comments, diversity is only accepted when you have the exact same opinion as everyone else. If you deviate from this viewpoint, you are a bigot or hatemonger or subhuman worthy of ridicule.
Yes, because one of the most influential bodies in world history requires the same space in a diversity blog as a group of people whose civil rights are denied :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
edit: Ironically, their civil rights are denied by the same group you want to celebrate
Erm...I see you generalizing an entire group of people...AND being against an event concept for a particular group. Pot. Kettle. Black. BTW - Islam is MUCH more intolerant, especially in Iran. My goodness, it's horrible. In contrast, the Church doesn't teach or promote any sort of violence or hatred against gays/lesbians, and a true Catholic would defend the life of any TRIBBLE/TRIBBLE who was threatened with violence.
But just like the people you don't like, you've already made up your mind about a certain group, I'm sure. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am.
Good, you are a forum moderator and you had no business expressing a personal opinion here. Volunteer or no, you have been given forum powers and responsibilities. Colour me unimpressed by your attitude.
Where's your tolerance for his opinion? He stated he's not against civil liberties, only that he feels this instance is a potential platform for possibly violating things he - as a mod - is supposed to regulate. There's nothing wrong with him taking that stance, in fact, it demonstrates his adherence to the rules he's supposed to follow and enforce.
If this was about anything else, he'd have to consider closing the thread.
My best friend - former soldier and an animal handler - is TRIBBLE. We were flipping through the TV stations one night and she made it a point to tell me this:
"I don't understand why there's voluntary segregation with a TRIBBLE and TRIBBLE channel, or a black channel, or a Spanish channel. If we"re like everyone else, if we're all supposed to be one nation, act like it and stop dividing and specializing things in ways that subtly exclude others the way we've been excluded."
One last thing - IDIC also means opinions and ideas won't always agree, and perhaps even clash. Like it or not, opposing thoughts and ideas are an aspect of diversity occurring in a different combination. That may not be what anyone wants to read, but life isn't always about what we want; sometimes it's about what is.
Was really liking the majority of the posts until the "this is not an appropriate place for such things" people showed up.
Excuse me? This is not an appropriate place to advertising such an event. Period. So top the personal attacks - and that is exactly what you just did
No one is forcing you to go. You don't even have to be in the same freaking zone. This was a blog discussing the evolution of diversity and acceptance and you decided it come here to make a counter argument that amounts to little more than "how dare you bring such talk here!?"
Except that people are being forced to have to see this kind of stuff here. Where it does not belong. First, its a political issue, which means its a no-no for the forums, second, if they had dropped the pride flag background (another political symbol fyi) and stuck to the diversity and acceptance part, without the advertisement for the event, it wouldn't be a problem.
You know why it's in your face as some like to say...becasue when you suppress something it's going to to come back
Excuse me? Who is suppressing anyone here?
when you push a group of people down, they are going to push back, and push harder and harder, and they are going to throw it in your face becasue that's what you create when you try to silence them, and demonize them.
You mean like, say, quotes like 'I Was really liking the majority of the posts until the "this is not an appropriate place for such things" people showed up.'
That sounds like trying to silence and demonize anyone who speaks up to me.
as for people saying Hetero day....everyday is Hetero day
Except that its not. That is a blatant lie
No need to drag things like this into a game that is basically just about blowing stuff up. I'd rather have a videogame forum be devoid of politics, sexual preferences, religion or any other of those things.
Indeed. In fact its in the tos agreement. That part about not discussing political issues - which this entire topic is.
A game developer allowing someone to further an unrelated socio-political agenda on their front page looks extremely unprofessional.
Indeed. and the legality of it is questionable
I was basing my assertion on the fact you said you couldn't discuss it. When in fact, you can discuss it so long as you don't do or say any of the things that violate the terms of use for the forums
This entire topic violates the tos and terms of use for this site. Its a political issue
That's not me labelling you
Actually you did
It's not politics. In the real world, discussing TRIBBLE rights, that's politics.
No, it very much IS politics
Then mentions the fact they are holding a Pride celebration on the server next weekend
Which is also politics
I am fairly certain that the intention of the rule about politics is specifically meant to address political discussion directly and solely relating to current events and not directly relating to the game or franchise or to discussions of a strongly partisan nature.
The rule is no politics, period. This topic is politics.
It's very very evident from any degree of analysis of the blog that the goal is to promote their TRIBBLE pride event and present it as the logical continuation of Trek's long history of social progressivism. So the blog itself is clearly designed to promote an event with a specific political purpose, which is equivalent to promoting that political purpose. If you can't see that you're making a deliberate effort not to.
Correct
The ignorance on display in this thread is exactly the reason why topics like this should be encouraged. Thank you, Cryptic, for being stand-up and putting this topic out in the open where bigots can't hide from it anymore. And thank you for giving those same bigots an opportunity to identify themselves for all to see.
So its 'if you aren't in agreement with us you are a bigot' now? Really? Theres a term for what you just said: HATE SPEECH
Pride has traditionally been a political event. The presence of this blog post is an endorsement by Cryptic of a political event, whether they meant for that to be the case or not.
Correct
Oh and before anyone cries "Cryptic isn't endorsing anything", they are. Guest blogs don't just appear out of thin air by anyone. They have to be submitted, and signed off by someone at Cryptic/PWE in order to be added to the website.
Correct
Show me where in the forum rules it states you cannot discuss a blog entry about diversity.
It says no discussion of politics. Which this is.
So long as you are not abusive or derogatory toward another poster's race, ethnicity, religion, orientation, et cetera, I believe there is no violation of the rules for the STO forum.
Really? Then start enforcing that. You can start by banning the guy that called everyone who did not agree with this, as being hateful bigots
I see no reason why a company should endorse a persons sexuality and promote an event about that persons sexuality regardless of what it is. Its why most companies dont do it to much conflict of interest involved.
Indeed.
I see no endorsement of sexuality, I see an endorsement of diversity
What part of 'TRIBBLE pride event' doesn't refer to sexuality exactly?
The original article doesn't breach that. Several of the posts in this thread do however.
The article, due to the nature of content, has encouraged others to refer to people as 'bigots' which can very easily fall under hate speech when it is used to belittle someone and to shut them up
It's implied, by stating that this is inappropriate for a group of children to be exposed to, that the lifestyle choices are wrong and shameful. Indirectly, that says that anyone who makes that choice should be hidden away from the eyes of the general public.
That is not alluding to hate speech in any manner whatsoever. You are talking about a pride event, which refers to sexuality, which is not a topic appropriate for underage children. You are putting words in the posters mouth. it doesn't imply anything that you claimed it does
you are a forum moderator and you had no business expressing a personal opinion here. Volunteer or no, you have been given forum powers and responsibilities. Colour me unimpressed by your attitude.
bluegeek stated the truth and you attacked him for it. way to prove my point and his
With all due respect, but you make it sound like This event is Cryptic sponsored.
Sponsored? No. Endorsed? Yes. Don't say it isn't, because if it wasn't it wouldn't be on their front page and in a guest blog
just watch out for bigoted idiots
there are a LOT more about than you might think
Talking about yourself there? Cause you just attacked some people there. Thats called hate speech
To the guy above me: Some people are TRIBBLE. Deal with it
Excuse me? How dare you. I don't have any problem with anyone being TRIBBLE. What I have a problem with is bringing these kinds of politics into a place like this, where it does not belong and have it pushed on people. Do not tell me to shut up and deal with it
No matter what the trolls and the negative nancy's have to say
So, people have been called: bigots, idiots, trolls and negative nancys now for saying this is not appropriate, when it is not. So you attack people and then essentially say 'shut up while we rub this in your face'
Which is exactly why things like this don't belong here
This isn't just a celebration for TRIBBLE pride; it's about diversity and equality for all.
With a rainbow flag in the image for the blog and a TRIBBLE pride event announced. So yes, it is a celebration for it. Don't try to talk circles around it
Cryptic is not making the event, its a community event created by the player base, cryptic and PWE support it, just like they support PVP
There is a very large difference between 'supporting pvp' (which is in completely different context here btw) and supporting a political event - an action that is banned by the tos, can be highly offensive to people and has no place being supported by a company in an official capacity under any circumstances. Companies are supposed to be politically neutral on things like this. To be otherwise invites everything from complaints to lawsuits
The problem isn't that they are running this event. The problem is that PWE is highlighting this event and will refuse to highlight other events if they are not from favored groups. If you don't believe that, then you just aren't being realistic. They are selecting winners and losers on a somewhat controversial area and bringing in political debate when it is supposed to be excluded from these forums. Call it diversity if you want, but like much of the comments, diversity is only accepted when you have the exact same opinion as everyone else. If you deviate from this viewpoint, you are a bigot or hatemonger or subhuman worthy of ridicule.
That sums it up rather nicely
I do not believe history supports your thesis. I doubt many have any objection to "white history month" or "straight-pride month" prima facie.
Oh yeah? Hold one of each, make it real public, and see what happens. Try to arrange for either in a school and see what happens.
The question is: where do these celebrations emerge from? What is the historical reason for their creation?
There is no question. If you can have all these other events and pride events and all that, then you can't say there is no right to have a straight and white versions of them, as you gave examples of. but again, go and try to have either of those and see what happens
Events such as pride day originated out of the dark and not too distant history of oppression
In other words: 'blame whitey.' Thats usually what it means when the word 'oppression' comes up in this context
I am not sure what "white pride month" or "straight pride month" would celebrate, but it certainly would be something very different.
They would celebrate pride in being white and pride in being straight, just as their TRIBBLE/black/latino/etc... counterparts do respectively
There is a very large difference between 'supporting pvp' (which is in completely different context here btw) and supporting a political event - an action that is banned by the tos, can be highly offensive to people and has no place being supported by a company in an official capacity under any circumstances. Companies are supposed to be politically neutral on things like this. To be otherwise invites everything from complaints to lawsuits
that made me laugh so hard, companies are suppose to be neutral, that was a good one, even I can't come up with a joke like that.
There is no question. If you can have all these other events and pride events and all that, then you can't say there is no right to have a straight and white versions of them, as you gave examples of. but again, go and try to have either of those and see what happens
In other words: 'blame whitey.' Thats usually what it means when the word 'oppression' comes up in this context
They would celebrate pride in being white and pride in being straight, just as their TRIBBLE/black/latino/etc... counterparts do respectively
Please do not quote what I write in the future out of context and without citing my post. It is intellectually dishonest. You have failed to read and understand what I wrote.
I never claimed that people do not, "have a right" to hold these hypothetical events, just that these events have never existed (outside of fringe events created by unsavory sorts) and that there does not exist the same impetus for their creation today that existed for the creation of these other pride events in historical times. Neither whites nor heterosexuals as a singular group have ever been de jure discriminated against in the United States.
Also, it is illogical to claim that I am, "blaming whitey" for the historical oppression that led to the creation of these pride events given that some of the worst chapters of discrimination in the history of the United States involved groups that were generally legally considered white: Italians, Jews, Hispanics, Arabs, et cetera. Additionally, the majority of many other historically discriminated-against groups in the US, such as women, those of minority religious beliefs, and those of less usual sexual orientations were whites.
You seem to have missed the sine qua non of both my post and the blog regarding how Star Trek pushed the social bounds of the era to encourage the acceptance of racial, ethnic, political, and sexual minorities.
that made me laugh so hard, companies are suppose to be neutral, that was a good one, even I can't come up with a joke like that.
Exactly what gives you the idea that, "companies are supposed to be neutral". Corporations donate large sums of money to particular candidates, political causes, and sponsor such events as the large TRIBBLE pride events held in the Summer in cities such as San Francisco, New York, Los Angeles, and Toronto which attract millions of potential customers.
All US corporations are legally required to promote tolerance and diversity in the workplace and many choose to participate in cultural diversity activities such as encouraging their employees to march in various cultural events such as the Pride or Martin Luther King Parade.
It's like Disney TRIBBLE Days. Disney does not organize it, they do not promote it, but they sure as hell take in all the money, and to make more money they make special red and rainbow merchandise. Ooohhhh Can we get a rainbow tribble that gives damage resistance to all damage type? And gives our captains a Nyan cat effect?
Any true Star Trek fan should be able to appreciate this blog's core message on diversity. Star Trek has always been about something more than fancy spaceships and alien encounters. Gene Roddenberry made Star Trek as a vision of a utopian future which exclusively belongs to us, the Human race. He made Star Trek so personal to mankind that it offered us the real hope to see our species advance into something we're currently far from - a species free of greed, prejudice and hate.
If we all truly wish to see Gene's utopia become more and more real we need to embrace each other as nothing more than human; all other labels be gone.
It takes guts for a company and game to do the right thing like this, especially in a charged political climate. Kudos to the team for featuring this blog, and kudos on behalf of the UFP; we too strongly celebrate diversity!
Any true Star Trek fan should be able to appreciate this blog's core message on diversity. Star Trek has always been about something more than fancy spaceships and alien encounters. Gene Roddenberry made Star Trek as a vision of a utopian future which exclusively belongs to us, the Human race. He made Star Trek so personal to mankind that it offered us the real hope to see our species advance into something we're currently far from - a species free of greed, prejudice and hate.
Which it wasn't. There were all sorts of racial prejudices and stereotypes throughout Trek, and greed as well. Again, IDIC isn't only going to be about what makes us happy. It's going to be about both good and bad and everything in between. Real, true "diversity" is not set in stone, nor is it a term beholden to a single group to claim as their own.
This isn't just a celebration for TRIBBLE pride; it's about diversity and equality for all. The other ones you mentioned in your previous post were specific.
As for your "good of the few do not outweigh the good of the many" line; it should also be pointed out that the good of few doesn't necessarily impact the good of the many nor should the desires of the many trample on the desires of the few.
Its a TRIBBLE pride festival .it is not about diversity and equality its about a specific slice of the population.if it was about diversity and equality it would fit the star trek theme.
Whos trampling on the few desire?I never stated dont have it. I simply stated that other cultures should get a chance to write blogs and have diversity days. Never trample on desire of the few but take others into consideration
My best friend - former soldier and an animal handler - is TRIBBLE. We were flipping through the TV stations one night and she made it a point to tell me this:
"I don't understand why there's voluntary segregation with a TRIBBLE and TRIBBLE channel, or a black channel, or a Spanish channel. If we"re like everyone else, if we're all supposed to be one nation, act like it and stop dividing and specializing things in ways that subtly exclude others the way we've been excluded."
The problem isn't that they are running this event. The problem is that PWE is highlighting this event and will refuse to highlight other events if they are not from favored groups. If you don't believe that, then you just aren't being realistic. They are selecting winners and losers on a somewhat controversial area and bringing in political debate when it is supposed to be excluded from these forums.
And yet, oddly, I do not remember the controversy when PWE promoted the PVP Bootcamp activity, something organized by specific players in specific fleets, yet offered to the whole community. Indeed, PWE endorsed the event more heavily by adding a title to the game.
Stonewall is planning a weekend of fun, STO-centric activities that are being opened to the entire STO community for anyone who wants to join in. It exemplifies the kind of extended community interaction that an MMO enables. Nobody has to come, but PWE is merely doing service to its community by letting its players know what's up next weekend.
Rather than generating grief for PWE over the guest blog extending this event to the community, I would hope this event would inspire other fleets to plan in-game events that would also rise above the forum chatter in the form of a guest blog.
Note that the forums are NOT read by a vast number of players; I generally find the negativity of much of it so unpleasant that I only check them occasionally myself. I would hope PWE will continue to post guest blogs announcing other community-sponsored events in the future!
And actually I figure I'm pretty pleased that this thread has generated fewer nasty posts than many past tweaks to game balance have prompted, so that's not so bad after all.
Indeed. In fact its in the tos agreement. That part about not discussing political issues - which this entire topic is.
Indeed. and the legality of it is questionable
What part of 'TRIBBLE pride event' doesn't refer to sexuality exactly?
With a rainbow flag in the image for the blog and a TRIBBLE pride event announced. So yes, it is a celebration for it. Don't try to talk circles around it
There is a very large difference between 'supporting pvp' (which is in completely different context here btw) and supporting a political event - an action that is banned by the tos, can be highly offensive to people and has no place being supported by a company in an official capacity under any circumstances. Companies are supposed to be politically neutral on things like this. To be otherwise invites everything from complaints to lawsuits
There is no question. If you can have all these other events and pride events and all that, then you can't say there is no right to have a straight and white versions of them, as you gave examples of. but again, go and try to have either of those and see what happens
So. The above is editted, just to get to the parts I want to address. Just to be clear in advance.
First, I saw nothing about politics, except for recognizing historical oppression of "other than acceptable" (not my words) groups, and how Star Trek helped to break some of those barriers. I don't view a person's lifestyle as political. However, if you do, and feel that this is in violation, why is the company not shutting it down?
Second, the discussion of the issue, and the legality being questionable? How? These discussions are taking place in a private forum, as decided by the US supreme court and upheld by numerous other courts around the world. The sole decider of the legality of the issue is the owner/operator of the private forum and or server.
Yes, this event is being sponsored by a LGBT fleet, and the theme is designed to recognize a historical event that lead to a greater diversity and recognition, something that the theme and the IP has always, as evidenced by the research submitted in the guest blog, advocated for.
Companies remaining politically neutral... no, that is not true at all. They are requried to remain tolerant, whether that is a policy of dont-ask-dont-tell, or unable to hire/fire/promote/demote/etc based upon age, race, sex, creed, or preference. If companies were required to be politically neutral, things would be VASTLY different in many ways.
As for a lawsuit for not remaining neutral... there is more a risk of lawsuit from quashing a discussion about an LBGT event simply on those grounds than anything you have listed. It would fail, because of the aforementioned precedents in court, but they would still be heard, in a negative way.
I agree with the last statement. If one event is allowed, then, as long as the other doesn't promote or demote any other person, people, or group of people, isn't geared towards hate or violence, then yes, it should be permitted.
To be honest, I feel that all the noise here about this subject has NOTHING to do with the endorsement of a "political" fleet event. I, personally, feel that this is more based around the particular "politics" of the fleet involved.
If you are TRULY open to considering the above statement, then honestly ask yourself this question.
If a fleet identified themselves as members of the armed forces, and their fleet was holding an event to recognize June 6 (D-day, in case people don't remember...) had the same blog, did the same research (by the way, Doohan was Canadian infantry, and was present on D-day, so there is a small connection to the IP), and it was endorsed, would there be this much resistance to it, or objections in the forums? Would anyone feel the same about that as this event?
If your answer is that that event would be fine, then perhaps you need to examine your motivations for objection.
If you feel that it would be inappropriate, I will respectfully disagree, but then, people can respectfully disagree and coexist
Which it wasn't. There were all sorts of racial prejudices and stereotypes throughout Trek, and greed as well. Again, IDIC isn't only going to be about what makes us happy. It's going to be about both good and bad and everything in between. Real, true "diversity" is not set in stone, nor is it a term beholden to a single group to claim as their own.
Throughout Star Trek yes, but in the Federation (the representation of our future) racial prejudice and greed is not the norm.
"It's easy to miss the messages behind the storylines today, but in 1966, Star Trek was revolutionary for its depiction of racial and gender diversity." The movies by Abrams are a joke made by a man who is a Star Wars fan and has no love for Star Trek. The movies of today are about action and flash very little of asking life questions and exploring, which is what made Star Trek great.
"If it doesn't explode, you simply aren't trying hard enough."
And yet, oddly, I do not remember the controversy when PWE promoted the PVP Bootcamp activity, something organized by specific players in specific fleets, yet offered to the whole community. Indeed, PWE endorsed the event more heavily by adding a title to the game.
Stonewall is planning a weekend of fun, STO-centric activities that are being opened to the entire STO community for anyone who wants to join in. It exemplifies the kind of extended community interaction that an MMO enables. Nobody has to come, but PWE is merely doing service to its community by letting its players know what's up next weekend.
Rather than generating grief for PWE over the guest blog extending this event to the community, I would hope this event would inspire other fleets to plan in-game events that would also rise above the forum chatter in the form of a guest blog.
Note that the forums are NOT read by a vast number of players; I generally find the negativity of much of it so unpleasant that I only check them occasionally myself. I would hope PWE will continue to post guest blogs announcing other community-sponsored events in the future!
And actually I figure I'm pretty pleased that this thread has generated fewer nasty posts than many past tweaks to game balance have prompted, so that's not so bad after all.
1 PVP is not politically touchy subject as compared to culture
2 PWE is choosing which events to promote. It doesn't promote every different culture
3 I agree PWE needs to promote more community sponsored events but think the way it chose which one to start with demonstrates irresponsibility . If promoting Guest blog and culture was every month or in a STO community base web newspaper i would have less problems with it.
Throughout Star Trek yes, but in the Federation (the representation of our future) racial prejudice and greed is not the norm.
That isn?t true there is an episode of Enterprise after the Xindi attack where humans are prejudice against any aliens on Earth and Phlox gets attacked. There was also the movement on Earth during the Dominion threat where high levels of Starfleet were conspiring to initiate martial law over the changeling threat. There are also several instance of greed through different series, Voyager when Tom Paris is running the replicator ration pool, the Poker games in the Next Generation, Dabo being played by humans in DS9.
"If it doesn't explode, you simply aren't trying hard enough."
Comments
Err, in stfs could you please rather have all players use one energy type? One could be AP, the other phaser, the other disruptor and so on
Let me first say that I appreciate the spirit and agenda of this blog, but I have to point out some things.
Except for avoiding the issue of homosexuality until well after it became a mainstream part of American television. Sure, we can twist that Riker episode any which way, but the 23rd century was chauvinistic and the 24th century was heterosexual. Sure, the spirit of IDIC and all that... Star Trek was cowardly for the most part.
Sulu had one scene as a fencer. I don't remember other leadership roles, other than stock footage of him at the helm.
This is some of the worst GR propaganda. He was a Davy Jones character who provided teen appeal and comic relief because Russians inwented everything, which was a running gag that was about as anti-Soviet as you can imagine.
This story may be pure fiction. Just look at her memoirs and interviews. In some cases, it was a phone call. In other cases, it was a chance encounter at an event. It probably never happened. If you can't remember exactly how you met MLK Jr., then you probably never met MLK Jr.
It was a forced kiss, made to enhance the evil of the godlike aliens. That is not exactly something to celebrate. The fact that it was unnatural was part of the drama.
Except T'pol was forced, not a rational person choosing to love someone. It's like pity the victim of the blood transfusion for getting the disease of the "deviants."
Yes, good episode, but the theme might have been far more relevant when Amos N. Andy was on the air.
Ah, here we go. I will just say that much has been written about this episode, but it doesn't change the fact that it's about a heterosexual relationship that is "normal" to the TV audience. That it's not normal to the aliens is weird. Darn those aliens who force their people to be weird.
Good for you guys and gals.
Yawn. Yes, I am a Trekkie. No, I do not overlook the actual portrayal of women, minorities, and evil communists in the original Star Trek. GR loved to say things like this, in between the womanizing. There are some elements, yes. But, it's ridiculous to ascribe the comic relief Russian, the black secretary, and the no-lines Asian helmsman to some massive social statement about diversity and IDIC and all that from a Hollywood producer trying to make money.
Will and Grace has a better track record than Star Trek. So did Roseanne, Cheers, and other shows.
Regardless, thanks for what you do with your fleet.
If the company is going to publish a blog on a topic sure to generate strong response (like this one), then they should make absolutely certain that misspellings like Ricker instead of Riker (multiple times misspelled) or Flox instead of Phlox do not occur. These are pretty easy names to find proper spellings on. Ever hear of Memory alpha ... or the credits of the show the characters appear in?
It makes it look like no one at Cryptic even had a look over the blog. That not even one editing pass was done, because those errors are pretty blatant. So, the problem for me , is that a very controversial blog topic is posted to the front page, and it looks like Cryptic never even read it or looked it over.
Whatever your feelings on the content of the blog. The presentation of the thing has left a VERY unprofessional image.
Just my opinion
The game is about Star Trek.
Have you ever actually watched Star Trek?
When I first saw that I was a little kid, and I decided that women kissing is boring, and thus went to watch the less boring Star Wars with laser swords.
It had no effect on me, but then again I was not an impressionable child.
Federation: Today, no one needs to die.
Romulans: Today is a good day for somebody else to die.
Your signature is nice
Especially the Romulan's part.
one brief comment we didn't celebrate Jewish American Month African American month or Latino month but we celebrate Pride month?
I thought Star Trek would be more open to Infinite Diveristy Infinite Combinations...and not just pride month
i will be boycotting those days of in pride..because other cultures dont get equal time
we didnt celebrate any other cultural diversity months why celebrate TRIBBLE pride?
This isn't just a celebration for TRIBBLE pride; it's about diversity and equality for all. The other ones you mentioned in your previous post were specific.
As for your "good of the few do not outweigh the good of the many" line; it should also be pointed out that the good of few doesn't necessarily impact the good of the many nor should the desires of the many trample on the desires of the few.
ESD is not going to be colored in rainbows...it's not an event like the year anniversary or winter or summer, or the European event...it's an event like the PVP boot camps, and Klingon event where the players are doing it, and Cryptic and PWE just nod and say cool.
If you want to have player run event for Hispanics , Blacks or for people who like cartoons meant for little girls, then go ahead no one is stopping you, but apparently you guys did not.
So get off your lazy butts and create one, becasue Cryptic is not going to do it for you, just like they did not do this event, the players did.
But just like the people you don't like, you've already made up your mind about a certain group, I'm sure. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am.
Where's your tolerance for his opinion? He stated he's not against civil liberties, only that he feels this instance is a potential platform for possibly violating things he - as a mod - is supposed to regulate. There's nothing wrong with him taking that stance, in fact, it demonstrates his adherence to the rules he's supposed to follow and enforce.
If this was about anything else, he'd have to consider closing the thread.
My best friend - former soldier and an animal handler - is TRIBBLE. We were flipping through the TV stations one night and she made it a point to tell me this:
"I don't understand why there's voluntary segregation with a TRIBBLE and TRIBBLE channel, or a black channel, or a Spanish channel. If we"re like everyone else, if we're all supposed to be one nation, act like it and stop dividing and specializing things in ways that subtly exclude others the way we've been excluded."
One last thing - IDIC also means opinions and ideas won't always agree, and perhaps even clash. Like it or not, opposing thoughts and ideas are an aspect of diversity occurring in a different combination. That may not be what anyone wants to read, but life isn't always about what we want; sometimes it's about what is.
Have fun at your celebration.
Excuse me? This is not an appropriate place to advertising such an event. Period. So top the personal attacks - and that is exactly what you just did
Except that people are being forced to have to see this kind of stuff here. Where it does not belong. First, its a political issue, which means its a no-no for the forums, second, if they had dropped the pride flag background (another political symbol fyi) and stuck to the diversity and acceptance part, without the advertisement for the event, it wouldn't be a problem.
Excuse me? Who is suppressing anyone here?
You mean like, say, quotes like 'I Was really liking the majority of the posts until the "this is not an appropriate place for such things" people showed up.'
That sounds like trying to silence and demonize anyone who speaks up to me.
Except that its not. That is a blatant lie
Indeed. In fact its in the tos agreement. That part about not discussing political issues - which this entire topic is.
Indeed. and the legality of it is questionable
This entire topic violates the tos and terms of use for this site. Its a political issue
Actually you did
No, it very much IS politics
Which is also politics
The rule is no politics, period. This topic is politics.
Correct
So its 'if you aren't in agreement with us you are a bigot' now? Really? Theres a term for what you just said: HATE SPEECH
Correct
Correct
It says no discussion of politics. Which this is.
Really? Then start enforcing that. You can start by banning the guy that called everyone who did not agree with this, as being hateful bigots
Indeed.
What part of 'TRIBBLE pride event' doesn't refer to sexuality exactly?
The article, due to the nature of content, has encouraged others to refer to people as 'bigots' which can very easily fall under hate speech when it is used to belittle someone and to shut them up
That is not alluding to hate speech in any manner whatsoever. You are talking about a pride event, which refers to sexuality, which is not a topic appropriate for underage children. You are putting words in the posters mouth. it doesn't imply anything that you claimed it does
bluegeek stated the truth and you attacked him for it. way to prove my point and his
Sponsored? No. Endorsed? Yes. Don't say it isn't, because if it wasn't it wouldn't be on their front page and in a guest blog
Talking about yourself there? Cause you just attacked some people there. Thats called hate speech
Excuse me? How dare you. I don't have any problem with anyone being TRIBBLE. What I have a problem with is bringing these kinds of politics into a place like this, where it does not belong and have it pushed on people. Do not tell me to shut up and deal with it
So, people have been called: bigots, idiots, trolls and negative nancys now for saying this is not appropriate, when it is not. So you attack people and then essentially say 'shut up while we rub this in your face'
Which is exactly why things like this don't belong here
With a rainbow flag in the image for the blog and a TRIBBLE pride event announced. So yes, it is a celebration for it. Don't try to talk circles around it
There is a very large difference between 'supporting pvp' (which is in completely different context here btw) and supporting a political event - an action that is banned by the tos, can be highly offensive to people and has no place being supported by a company in an official capacity under any circumstances. Companies are supposed to be politically neutral on things like this. To be otherwise invites everything from complaints to lawsuits
That sums it up rather nicely
Oh yeah? Hold one of each, make it real public, and see what happens. Try to arrange for either in a school and see what happens.
There is no question. If you can have all these other events and pride events and all that, then you can't say there is no right to have a straight and white versions of them, as you gave examples of. but again, go and try to have either of those and see what happens
In other words: 'blame whitey.' Thats usually what it means when the word 'oppression' comes up in this context
They would celebrate pride in being white and pride in being straight, just as their TRIBBLE/black/latino/etc... counterparts do respectively
that made me laugh so hard, companies are suppose to be neutral, that was a good one, even I can't come up with a joke like that.
Please do not quote what I write in the future out of context and without citing my post. It is intellectually dishonest. You have failed to read and understand what I wrote.
I never claimed that people do not, "have a right" to hold these hypothetical events, just that these events have never existed (outside of fringe events created by unsavory sorts) and that there does not exist the same impetus for their creation today that existed for the creation of these other pride events in historical times. Neither whites nor heterosexuals as a singular group have ever been de jure discriminated against in the United States.
Also, it is illogical to claim that I am, "blaming whitey" for the historical oppression that led to the creation of these pride events given that some of the worst chapters of discrimination in the history of the United States involved groups that were generally legally considered white: Italians, Jews, Hispanics, Arabs, et cetera. Additionally, the majority of many other historically discriminated-against groups in the US, such as women, those of minority religious beliefs, and those of less usual sexual orientations were whites.
You seem to have missed the sine qua non of both my post and the blog regarding how Star Trek pushed the social bounds of the era to encourage the acceptance of racial, ethnic, political, and sexual minorities.
Exactly what gives you the idea that, "companies are supposed to be neutral". Corporations donate large sums of money to particular candidates, political causes, and sponsor such events as the large TRIBBLE pride events held in the Summer in cities such as San Francisco, New York, Los Angeles, and Toronto which attract millions of potential customers.
All US corporations are legally required to promote tolerance and diversity in the workplace and many choose to participate in cultural diversity activities such as encouraging their employees to march in various cultural events such as the Pride or Martin Luther King Parade.
You'd get the desired effect if everyone lined up and rolled forwards in formation!
If we all truly wish to see Gene's utopia become more and more real we need to embrace each other as nothing more than human; all other labels be gone.
It takes guts for a company and game to do the right thing like this, especially in a charged political climate. Kudos to the team for featuring this blog, and kudos on behalf of the UFP; we too strongly celebrate diversity!
Its a TRIBBLE pride festival .it is not about diversity and equality its about a specific slice of the population.if it was about diversity and equality it would fit the star trek theme.
Whos trampling on the few desire?I never stated dont have it. I simply stated that other cultures should get a chance to write blogs and have diversity days. Never trample on desire of the few but take others into consideration
I must have missed that memo. :rolleyes:
I never advocated anything except a togetherness of all people. How unfortunate and ignorant you did not see that.
Very well said!
And yet, oddly, I do not remember the controversy when PWE promoted the PVP Bootcamp activity, something organized by specific players in specific fleets, yet offered to the whole community. Indeed, PWE endorsed the event more heavily by adding a title to the game.
Stonewall is planning a weekend of fun, STO-centric activities that are being opened to the entire STO community for anyone who wants to join in. It exemplifies the kind of extended community interaction that an MMO enables. Nobody has to come, but PWE is merely doing service to its community by letting its players know what's up next weekend.
Rather than generating grief for PWE over the guest blog extending this event to the community, I would hope this event would inspire other fleets to plan in-game events that would also rise above the forum chatter in the form of a guest blog.
Note that the forums are NOT read by a vast number of players; I generally find the negativity of much of it so unpleasant that I only check them occasionally myself. I would hope PWE will continue to post guest blogs announcing other community-sponsored events in the future!
And actually I figure I'm pretty pleased that this thread has generated fewer nasty posts than many past tweaks to game balance have prompted, so that's not so bad after all.
So. The above is editted, just to get to the parts I want to address. Just to be clear in advance.
First, I saw nothing about politics, except for recognizing historical oppression of "other than acceptable" (not my words) groups, and how Star Trek helped to break some of those barriers. I don't view a person's lifestyle as political. However, if you do, and feel that this is in violation, why is the company not shutting it down?
Second, the discussion of the issue, and the legality being questionable? How? These discussions are taking place in a private forum, as decided by the US supreme court and upheld by numerous other courts around the world. The sole decider of the legality of the issue is the owner/operator of the private forum and or server.
Yes, this event is being sponsored by a LGBT fleet, and the theme is designed to recognize a historical event that lead to a greater diversity and recognition, something that the theme and the IP has always, as evidenced by the research submitted in the guest blog, advocated for.
Companies remaining politically neutral... no, that is not true at all. They are requried to remain tolerant, whether that is a policy of dont-ask-dont-tell, or unable to hire/fire/promote/demote/etc based upon age, race, sex, creed, or preference. If companies were required to be politically neutral, things would be VASTLY different in many ways.
As for a lawsuit for not remaining neutral... there is more a risk of lawsuit from quashing a discussion about an LBGT event simply on those grounds than anything you have listed. It would fail, because of the aforementioned precedents in court, but they would still be heard, in a negative way.
I agree with the last statement. If one event is allowed, then, as long as the other doesn't promote or demote any other person, people, or group of people, isn't geared towards hate or violence, then yes, it should be permitted.
To be honest, I feel that all the noise here about this subject has NOTHING to do with the endorsement of a "political" fleet event. I, personally, feel that this is more based around the particular "politics" of the fleet involved.
If you are TRULY open to considering the above statement, then honestly ask yourself this question.
If a fleet identified themselves as members of the armed forces, and their fleet was holding an event to recognize June 6 (D-day, in case people don't remember...) had the same blog, did the same research (by the way, Doohan was Canadian infantry, and was present on D-day, so there is a small connection to the IP), and it was endorsed, would there be this much resistance to it, or objections in the forums? Would anyone feel the same about that as this event?
If your answer is that that event would be fine, then perhaps you need to examine your motivations for objection.
If you feel that it would be inappropriate, I will respectfully disagree, but then, people can respectfully disagree and coexist
Throughout Star Trek yes, but in the Federation (the representation of our future) racial prejudice and greed is not the norm.
1 PVP is not politically touchy subject as compared to culture
2 PWE is choosing which events to promote. It doesn't promote every different culture
3 I agree PWE needs to promote more community sponsored events but think the way it chose which one to start with demonstrates irresponsibility . If promoting Guest blog and culture was every month or in a STO community base web newspaper i would have less problems with it.
That isn?t true there is an episode of Enterprise after the Xindi attack where humans are prejudice against any aliens on Earth and Phlox gets attacked. There was also the movement on Earth during the Dominion threat where high levels of Starfleet were conspiring to initiate martial law over the changeling threat. There are also several instance of greed through different series, Voyager when Tom Paris is running the replicator ration pool, the Poker games in the Next Generation, Dabo being played by humans in DS9.