I'm all for equality and diversity, but any special interest groups should be disallowed from blog posts. Politics should be kept out of STO.
With this blog I'm disappointed in PWE/cryptic.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I find this extremely inapropriate and highly iresponsible on the forum mods part. Im not against or hate TRIBBLE people but imagine if someone had a "guest blog" that was about a islamic jihad in game event or a hedrosexual event? where does it end? Star trek was never about bieng TRIBBLE or hedrosexual it was about exploration and ill admit acceptance. To make a entire event based on ones sexuality is highly inapropriate in a video game setting.
This is just my opinion im not saying to shut this thread down or to not have this "event" but this is a "video game" not reality just my view and opinion doesnt mean im right or wrong.
Um, EVERYTHING that happens in-game, aside from this one-weekend-a-year event IS a Heterosexual event. (not, "hedrosexual, btw). Also, it is my experience that anybody who takes the time to post something like this is either against or does hate TRIBBLE people, lol.
People can try and dismiss any mention of LGBT rights as merely an attempt to "insert politics" into the equation all they want. But, for those of us in the historically oppressed LGBT minority, it is not about politics or wanting to force people to believe anything.
We'd just really like to stop being tied to fence posts and left for dead in Wyoming, hung in Iran, or shot to death while walking down a New York City street. We'd also like to enjoy the same (not additional) rights that are afforded to every other citizen of nations across the globe.
As a proud member of both the LGBT Community and the Stonewall Fleet, I salute my Admiral, and I hope the event is a huge success!
Certain legal sexual behaviors are not natural. (Speaking scientifically)
But there is nothing wrong with something being not natural.
Is clothing natural? No.
Is living in a house natural? No.
Is eating cooked food natural? No.
What about a proshetic hip? Is that natural? No.
Computers? Not natural either.
Medicine? Not natural either.
So there is nothing wrong with unnatural.
I am for one, happy to live our unnatural life. full of clothes, houses and charred bacon.
Humanity should not be confined by nature, whenever its about lifestyle, equipment, or sexuality.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
1) I used quotes around the word cause because you make it your cause. I personally don't believe there is a cause.
2) The right to do whatever you want, is not true. Murder and theft exist in all societies and are not tolerated. And if you get what you want, I may, some day, be enprisoned for not accepting easily your behavior.
3) Sexuality in its natural form exists for reproduction. The fact that humans decided to use it for fun does not make it natural. What will happen when 100% of the human population turns homosexual?
Primates do it for fun too. Go watch some chimps in the zoo.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Would you go to Africa and tell that to the kids over there, please?
There's no shortage of food in Africa either.
The problem lies with corrupt governments, civil war and warlords who use the distribution of food as a weapon.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
As long as you are a kind and decent person, I do not care about what you do behind closed bedroom doors. Its none of my business. I do not accept 'the act' of homosexuality as anything normal; however, I do respect and accept the human being, behind the act, as my brother and sister.
What is important to me is the individual.
When I interact with another individual, I look straight into their heart and soul. Heterosexuals and homosexuals can be the source of great kindness and cruelty.
Instead of talking to someone about their sexuality, I would rather have a conversation about how we can protect our children, environment, economy, and country. As long as you have love within your heart, I could really careless about what you do in private.
Hetrosexual mothers and fathers have children, for they want to prolong the survivability of their genetic makeup. During the process of child bearing, the genetics between a male and female converge into one being.
Can two males physically produce a child, which will contain the 'direct' genetic elements of both parents?
Can two females physically produce a child, which will contain the 'direct' genetic elements of both parents?
Even though a homosexual and TRIBBLE couple can become loving parents, they cannot physically produce a child that directly combines their genetic make up.
...other words, the chances of meeting a child who shares George Takei and his husband's genetics is zero.
Its a shame. I respect George Takei on so many levels.
Too bad George Takei's 'direct' genetic lineage ends with him.
I hope George Takei will consider adopting a child, so at least his philosophies can live past his biological limitations.
George Takei is a talented, fun, and loving individual.
It is sad to see Gene Roddenbury's message of tolerance fall on such deaf ears.
If you did a little bit more research, you would have learned that Roddenberry was not tolerant of religion. As a matter of overall fact, Roddenberry was very specific about his anti-religious beliefs. Roddenberry was not an angel. While he used "Star Trek" to spread the idea of tolerance, Roddenberry exercised a religious intolerance in public.
"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." ~ Gene Roddenberry
"For most people, religion is nothing more than a substitute for a malfunctioning brain. If people need religion, ignore them and maybe they will ignore you, and you can go on with your life. It wasn't until I was beginning to do Star Trek that the subject of religion arose. What brought it up was that people were saying that I would have a chaplain on board the Enterprise. I replied, "No, we don't." ~ Gene Roddenberry
The good of the few do not outweigh the good of the many..
we didnt celebrate any other cultural diversity months why celebrate TRIBBLE pride?
Dear Gods, your ignorance is staggering.
Have you ever bothered to see how many different diversity celebrations are held on a monthly basis in the US alone? Latinos have a month, African Americans have a month, Asian Americans have a month, and Pride Month just happens to fall in June because of the Stonewall Rebellion that happened in June 1969.
What do you think the "Few" are? Part of the whole. Any part of that few gets mistreated by the majority (Women, African-Americans, Latinos, LGBs, Trans) the whole is diminished.
African Americans were enslaved by white plantation owners in the US, why? Cheap labor and better profits, not to mention the fact that African Americans were only considered 3/5of a man...and subhuman. Women were considered too delicate to vote and make "men's" decisions. Latinos were classified "white" in Texas, but denied service and equal treatment. There are on the order of 30 states where being LGB may be used as a bar to equal employment and housing. I state these as facts.
Go read some history. As an academic I beg you to read history. It prevents wholesale ignorance such as you have displayed in this thread.
The celebration of diversity reminds us that we are truly one people, despite what others think. Pride, regardless of the group that celebrates it, is meant to not just remind others, it is meant to remind members of the group in question of their shared history and reminds us not to be ashamed of who we are...
This whole thread has devolved into a bunch of excuse making by people who are uncomfortable about LGBs being in their lives. Too bad. I am not "going back into the closet" for you or anybody else. The spirit of Trek is all about IDIC and equality.
I am tired of the majority of people whining about why they don't get equal treatment when the system is designed with inherent advantages for the majority (white, male, heterosexual) built in. Walk a mile in some other people's shoes, stop being bloody selfish.
Hetrosexual mothers and fathers have children, for they want to prolong the survivability of their genetic makeup. During the process of child bearing, the genetics between a male and female converge into one being.
Can two males physically produce a child, which will contain the 'direct' genetic elements of both parents?
Can two females physically produce a child, which will contain the 'direct' genetic elements of both parents?
Even though a homosexual and TRIBBLE couple can become loving parents, they cannot physically produce a child that directly combines their genetic make up.
...other words, the chances of meeting a child who shares George Takei and his husband's genetics is zero.
Its a shame. I respect George Takei on so many levels.
Too bad George Takei's 'direct' genetic lineage ends with him.
I hope George Takei will consider adopting a child, so at least his philosophies can live past his biological limitations.
George Takei is a talented, fun, and loving individual.
God bless him.
Homosexuals have been having children for millennia. Your post is essentially stating that without artificial intervention, two members of the same sex cannot produce a child that combines the genetics of both parents?
I do not understand what your ultimate point is. Many couples are unable to conceive children except through artificial means. How are homosexuals particularly different?
Watch the world as many societies begin to lower the consentment age. Not my choice but we have to be open minded, right?
Love? What is love if not a whim?
The age of consent varies from state to state in the US. For heterosexual relations they range from 14 to 17. In most states those consent laws have been in existence since at least the 1940's or before. After Lawrence v Texas, some states established same sex age of consent laws, without exception the age of consent in all of those states is...18.
Despite your alarmist post, age of consent laws have been adjusted upward over the past twenty years, and the two states with ages of consent at 12 and 13 have been adjusted upward to 17. Oh, the US is a morass of immorality....and the sky is falling, chicken little.
Have you ever bothered to see how many different diversity celebrations are held on a monthly basis in the US alone? Latinos have a month, African Americans have a month, Asian Americans have a month, and Pride Month just happens to fall in June because of the Stonewall Rebellion that happened in June 1969.
What do you think the "Few" are? Part of the whole. Any part of that few gets mistreated by the majority (Women, African-Americans, Latinos, LGBs, Trans) the whole is diminished.
African Americans were enslaved by white plantation owners in the US, why? Cheap labor and better profits, not to mention the fact that African Americans were only considered 3/5of a man...and subhuman. Women were considered too delicate to vote and make "men's" decisions. Latinos were classified "white" in Texas, but denied service and equal treatment. There are on the order of 30 states where being LGB may be used as a bar to equal employment and housing. I state these as facts.
Go read some history. As an academic I beg you to read history. It prevents wholesale ignorance such as you have displayed in this thread.
The celebration of diversity reminds us that we are truly one people, despite what others think. Pride, regardless of the group that celebrates it, is meant to not just remind others, it is meant to remind members of the group in question of their shared history and reminds us not to be ashamed of who we are...
This whole thread has devolved into a bunch of excuse making by people who are uncomfortable about LGBs being in their lives. Too bad. I am not "going back into the closet" for you or anybody else. The spirit of Trek is all about IDIC and equality.
I am tired of the majority of people whining about why they don't get equal treatment when the system is designed with inherent advantages for the majority (white, male, heterosexual) built in. Walk a mile in some other people's shoes, stop being bloody selfish.
I believe the reference was not celebrating any of these other cultural events in game. Not that there isn't a cultural event seemingly every week and month in the US and elsewhere. Inserting this event in game is something new. Having it advertised via an official blog post is something new. These are new items that certainly are worthy of discussion as they seemingly violate the barrier between the forums and political speach. Would you be so tolerant and understanding if the blog post was pushing for a recognition of traditional marriage and family units? Of course not as you view that as oppressive as it denies your view of individual liberty and autonomy. Similarly, pushing this event, on those who are disinclined to accept it is infringing on their ability to live their lives as they see it. You tout this as an event on diversity yet you don't seem to want to accept a diversity of opinion that can oppose it. Many of the opposite viewpoint view this event as pushing itself on the membership as it is being promoted by PWE.
Again, I have no issue with the event itself. My issue is with PWE promoting and endorsing such an event via a official announcement that is not available to anyone. It is opening the door to political events that can be quite controversial and as soon as they deny a similar event support to say an Abortion advocacy group, a Palestinian homeland advocacy group, Political parties in an election, or any other advocacy organization, they are picking winners and losers. If this event is allowed to be promoted, then PWE should allow any other political voice to be promoted. They won't and the denial of such support can and should cause an uproar. By opening the political door in game and bringing external debates inside the game, it creates bad feeling and infringes on players who just want to play the game.
I believe the reference was not celebrating any of these other cultural events in game. Not that there isn't a cultural event seemingly every week and month in the US and elsewhere. Inserting this event in game is something new. Having it advertised via an official blog post is something new. These are new items that certainly are worthy of discussion as they seemingly violate the barrier between the forums and political speach. Would you be so tolerant and understanding if the blog post was pushing for a recognition of traditional marriage and family units? Of course not as you view that as oppressive as it denies your view of individual liberty and autonomy. Similarly, pushing this event, on those who are disinclined to accept it is infringing on their ability to live their lives as they see it. You tout this as an event on diversity yet you don't seem to want to accept a diversity of opinion that can oppose it. Many of the opposite viewpoint view this event as pushing itself on the membership as it is being promoted by PWE.
Again, I have no issue with the event itself. My issue is with PWE promoting and endorsing such an event via a official announcement that is not available to anyone. It is opening the door to political events that can be quite controversial and as soon as they deny a similar event support to say an Abortion advocacy group, a Palestinian homeland advocacy group, Political parties in an election, or any other advocacy organization, they are picking winners and losers. If this event is allowed to be promoted, then PWE should allow any other political voice to be promoted. They won't and the denial of such support can and should cause an uproar. By opening the political door in game and bringing external debates inside the game, it creates bad feeling and infringes on players who just want to play the game.
I can now see Presidential candidates out-bidding each other on offering free zen if you vote for them
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I believe the reference was not celebrating any of these other cultural events in game. Not that there isn't a cultural event seemingly every week and month in the US and elsewhere. Inserting this event in game is something new. Having it advertised via an official blog post is something new. These are new items that certainly are worthy of discussion as they seemingly violate the barrier between the forums and political speach. Would you be so tolerant and understanding if the blog post was pushing for a recognition of traditional marriage and family units? Of course not as you view that as oppressive as it denies your view of individual liberty and autonomy. Similarly, pushing this event, on those who are disinclined to accept it is infringing on their ability to live their lives as they see it. You tout this as an event on diversity yet you don't seem to want to accept a diversity of opinion that can oppose it. Many of the opposite viewpoint view this event as pushing itself on the membership as it is being promoted by PWE.
Again, I have no issue with the event itself. My issue is with PWE promoting and endorsing such an event via a official announcement that is not available to anyone. It is opening the door to political events that can be quite controversial and as soon as they deny a similar event support to say an Abortion advocacy group, a Palestinian homeland advocacy group, Political parties in an election, or any other advocacy organization, they are picking winners and losers. If this event is allowed to be promoted, then PWE should allow any other political voice to be promoted. They won't and the denial of such support can and should cause an uproar. By opening the political door in game and bringing external debates inside the game, it creates bad feeling and infringes on players who just want to play the game.
The problem is that most of the people who are objecting in this thread are intolerant and are not worried about the political implications. You are creating false equivalencies with your examples.
Once again, Star Trek as a franchise is political, always has been. Roddenberry had a humanist agenda that was reflected in the show/s. You might even say that Roddenberry desired a Utopian society. MMO's are multi-layered. For those people who just want to blow up stuff, they don't even have to be on the forums. They log in, blow up stuff, and have fun. There are people who join fleets that reflect their view of the game. For my part, I join a fleet where I feel safe. You ever see ESD chat? Play WoW and read the Barrens? Antigay slur after antigay slur...and you wonder why LGBT's generally join TRIBBLE friendly fleets/guilds/groups?
As far as I am concerned, this is all light and noise and no heat. If you don't want to celebrate Pride, don't. Ignore the blog, it has no implications for your enjoyment of the game. But the blog is there to celebrate not just orientation, but racial diversity, to point out ST as a franchise's contributions to society's arc towards a more just end equal world.
As for the rest of people here who don't care for LGB folks, you have my leave to just ignore us...but one day you folks are going to find out that spinster aunt was a TRIBBLE, or the artistically inclined cousin is TRIBBLE. The rough, tough automechanic brother really has a husband at home. Good luck when your personal world changes...or just do what some folks do, kick kin out the house for being "unnatural and wrong."
The problem is that most of the people who are objecting in this thread are intolerant and are not worried about the political implications. You are creating false equivalencies with your examples.
Once again, Star Trek as a franchise is political, always has been. Roddenberry had a humanist agenda that was reflected in the show/s. You might even say that Roddenberry desired a Utopian society. MMO's are multi-layered. For those people who just want to blow up stuff, they don't even have to be on the forums. They log in, blow up stuff, and have fun. There are people who join fleets that reflect their view of the game. For my part, I join a fleet where I feel safe. You ever see ESD chat? Play WoW and read the Barrens? Antigay slur after antigay slur...and you wonder why LGBT's generally join TRIBBLE friendly fleets/guilds/groups?
As far as I am concerned, this is all light and noise and no heat. If you don't want to celebrate Pride, don't. Ignore the blog, it has no implications for your enjoyment of the game. But the blog is there to celebrate not just orientation, but racial diversity, to point out ST as a franchise's contributions to society's arc towards a more just end equal world.
As for the rest of people here who don't care for LGB folks, you have my leave to just ignore us...but one day you folks are going to find out that spinster aunt was a TRIBBLE, or the artistically inclined cousin is TRIBBLE. The rough, tough automechanic brother really has a husband at home. Good luck when your personal world changes...or just do what some folks do, kick kin out the house for being "unnatural and wrong."
Why is it a false equivelence? The pride movement and advocacy for various changes to the civil and political system of various countries is similar to other advocacy groups demands for change. By granting the advertisement of this political movement when political advocacy is supposed to be prohibited on these forums it is creating a change and opens the door to other groups to demand similar treatment. This will not be granted because they are unwilling or unable to grant various groups the similar platform for advocacy.
It is far better for PWE to draw a bright line and avoid these issues. Instead they crossed this threshold and will now probably be seen as favoring certain groups and viewpoints. I am not saying to ban this event in the slightest, merely to avoid the official endorsement and prominance of an announcement. The event could have still been held and promoted by user generated posts promoting such an event.
1) I used quotes around the word cause because you make it your cause. I personally don't believe there is a cause.
2) The right to do whatever you want, is not true. Murder and theft exist in all societies and are not tolerated. And if you get what you want, I may, some day, be enprisoned for not accepting easily your behavior.
3) Sexuality in its natural form exists for reproduction. The fact that humans decided to use it for fun does not make it natural. What will happen when 100% of the human population turns homosexual?
At what point did I state that a person had the right to do whatever they wanted? I stated they have the right to do as they choose as long as it does not persecute others.
Sexuality in whatever form is natural. We are not the only species that do it for pleasure, nor with homosexual tendencies. As for the "what if", you are talking a hypothetical situation that will not happen. There will always be members of a species to carry it on. That is kind of the ENTIRE point of the "celebrating diversity", in case you missed it. We don't all feel the same way, and we don't all have the same lifestyles, but everyone has the right to live their lifestyle. But I guess you missed that part.
As for the cause? Did you read it? Here, just in case you did not, is a copy/paste:
And, for the record, my cause in this situation is that everyone has the right to live their lives as they see fit, without persecution, so long as they in turn do not persecute others who do not share their ideals. There has been *NO* call by ANY group to imprison people for not sharing a belief such as this, or easily accepting behavior. That is not even REMOTELY what this is about.
So. Since MY cause is injust, let's turn this around 180 degrees. I do not believe that you have a "cause" to continue living your life as you see fit, without persecution, so long as you resepect others. THAT is what you say by saying I have no cause.
As long as people have different lifestyles, there will be disagreements about what is right and not right. I feel that people shouldn't be persecuted for their lifestyle so long as they harm nobody else in the pursuit of their own.
More of what I would say would be deemed to be inappropriate for a forum such as this, so I shall leave it unsaid. But the only thing that I have to say is: You don't have to like a person's lifestyle to allow them to live it, so long as it doesn't infringe upon your own. Too bad not all lifestyles seem capable of that.
I believe the reference was not celebrating any of these other cultural events in game. Not that there isn't a cultural event seemingly every week and month in the US and elsewhere. Inserting this event in game is something new. Having it advertised via an official blog post is something new. These are new items that certainly are worthy of discussion as they seemingly violate the barrier between the forums and political speach. Would you be so tolerant and understanding if the blog post was pushing for a recognition of traditional marriage and family units? Of course not as you view that as oppressive as it denies your view of individual liberty and autonomy. Similarly, pushing this event, on those who are disinclined to accept it is infringing on their ability to live their lives as they see it. You tout this as an event on diversity yet you don't seem to want to accept a diversity of opinion that can oppose it. Many of the opposite viewpoint view this event as pushing itself on the membership as it is being promoted by PWE.
Again, I have no issue with the event itself. My issue is with PWE promoting and endorsing such an event via a official announcement that is not available to anyone. It is opening the door to political events that can be quite controversial and as soon as they deny a similar event support to say an Abortion advocacy group, a Palestinian homeland advocacy group, Political parties in an election, or any other advocacy organization, they are picking winners and losers. If this event is allowed to be promoted, then PWE should allow any other political voice to be promoted. They won't and the denial of such support can and should cause an uproar. By opening the political door in game and bringing external debates inside the game, it creates bad feeling and infringes on players who just want to play the game.
In my mind, there is one large difference here, however. The fleet event advertisement aside, the blog itself was about diversity, and was specifically pertaining to Star Trek. The groups mentioned ( I know, they are examples, but bear with me) have no pertinence to the IP, unless I am unaware of some connection.
I do understand your point, and on SOME levels, I agree. I would amend this:
If this event is allowed to be promoted, then PWE should allow any other political voice to be promoted.
To this:
If this event is allowed to be promoted, then PWE should allow any other political voice that can demonstrate a direct connection and relevance to the theme of Star Trek.
And would be somewhat happier with it.
Clearly, not every single voice can be heard this way, or every fleet event offer. There's only a guest blog every so often.
As for infringing anywhere, nobody is forced to participate in the event, or even to read the guest blog, so I fail to see any infringing on the ability to log in and play at will.
I believe the reference was not celebrating any of these other cultural events in game. Not that there isn't a cultural event seemingly every week and month in the US and elsewhere. Inserting this event in game is something new. Having it advertised via an official blog post is something new. These are new items that certainly are worthy of discussion as they seemingly violate the barrier between the forums and political speach. Would you be so tolerant and understanding if the blog post was pushing for a recognition of traditional marriage and family units? Of course not as you view that as oppressive as it denies your view of individual liberty and autonomy. Similarly, pushing this event, on those who are disinclined to accept it is infringing on their ability to live their lives as they see it. You tout this as an event on diversity yet you don't seem to want to accept a diversity of opinion that can oppose it. Many of the opposite viewpoint view this event as pushing itself on the membership as it is being promoted by PWE.
Again, I have no issue with the event itself. My issue is with PWE promoting and endorsing such an event via a official announcement that is not available to anyone. It is opening the door to political events that can be quite controversial and as soon as they deny a similar event support to say an Abortion advocacy group, a Palestinian homeland advocacy group, Political parties in an election, or any other advocacy organization, they are picking winners and losers. If this event is allowed to be promoted, then PWE should allow any other political voice to be promoted. They won't and the denial of such support can and should cause an uproar. By opening the political door in game and bringing external debates inside the game, it creates bad feeling and infringes on players who just want to play the game.
The blog was about tolerance and Star Trek, not TRIBBLE rights or TRIBBLE pride, a point that you and many other posters seem to have missed. The bit about the fleet's TRIBBLE pride celebration constituted a single paragraph.
This is hardly the first fleet event featured in the blogs. Your claim that, "PWE [is] promoting and endorsing such an event via a official announcement that is not available to anyone," is without merit. Have you submitted a blog entry relating to a Trek-related topic and including a paragraph about a public relations friendly event a major fleet is hosting and had it rejected?
If you, for instance, create a well-written blog about love and relationships in Star Trek which includes a paragraph inviting STO players to your fleet's valentine-themed event and it is rejected, you might have a point. As for the moment, you are simply speculating that PWE would reject such a blog.
The problem is that most of the people who are objecting in this thread are intolerant and are not worried about the political implications.
That kind of generalization and straw man attack is the hallmark of intolerance and bigotry. How ironic that those supporting this politicization of Star Trek Online, under the guise of "diversity" and "tolerance", are willing to engage in the kind of thuggish stereotyping they claim to be defending against.
I find it unfortunate that someone with authority at STO chose to endorse a particular socio-political agenda, under the guise of a "guest blog". I have no confidence that this kind of endorsement (and extension of the forums as a bully pulpit) will be offered to other segments of the STO community, with differing opinions and competing "In Game" political events.
I will be writing to PWE/Cryptic and CBS about this unfortunate politicization of their gaming property. I will be explaining the possible loss of future purchases and word-of-mouth endorsements from this paying customer, if this unofficially official endorsement of controversial socio-political issues is not abated. Players should not be burdened by controversial, real-world, political proselytizing when they log in to play, or avail themselves of STO community resources, like the forum.
Why is it a false equivelence? The pride movement and advocacy for various changes to the civil and political system of various countries is similar to other advocacy groups demands for change. By granting the advertisement of this political movement when political advocacy is supposed to be prohibited on these forums it is creating a change and opens the door to other groups to demand similar treatment. This will not be granted because they are unwilling or unable to grant various groups the similar platform for advocacy.
It is far better for PWE to draw a bright line and avoid these issues. Instead they crossed this threshold and will now probably be seen as favoring certain groups and viewpoints. I am not saying to ban this event in the slightest, merely to avoid the official endorsement and prominance of an announcement. The event could have still been held and promoted by user generated posts promoting such an event.
The only discussion of, "changes to the civil and political system of various countries," in the blog related directly to the Star Trek franchise, which I believe would not violate PWE's rules about discussing politics since it has a direct and obvious relationship to the game. Obviously, PWE editors agree.
As to your claim that the fleet's pride festivities are a political event, you are simply speculating.
Comments
That's a good blog.
With this blog I'm disappointed in PWE/cryptic.
Um, EVERYTHING that happens in-game, aside from this one-weekend-a-year event IS a Heterosexual event. (not, "hedrosexual, btw). Also, it is my experience that anybody who takes the time to post something like this is either against or does hate TRIBBLE people, lol.
People can try and dismiss any mention of LGBT rights as merely an attempt to "insert politics" into the equation all they want. But, for those of us in the historically oppressed LGBT minority, it is not about politics or wanting to force people to believe anything.
We'd just really like to stop being tied to fence posts and left for dead in Wyoming, hung in Iran, or shot to death while walking down a New York City street. We'd also like to enjoy the same (not additional) rights that are afforded to every other citizen of nations across the globe.
As a proud member of both the LGBT Community and the Stonewall Fleet, I salute my Admiral, and I hope the event is a huge success!
Why? Aren't they both sexual behaviors with one being acclamated today and the other still considered bad but growing in popularity?
But there is nothing wrong with something being not natural.
Is clothing natural? No.
Is living in a house natural? No.
Is eating cooked food natural? No.
What about a proshetic hip? Is that natural? No.
Computers? Not natural either.
Medicine? Not natural either.
So there is nothing wrong with unnatural.
I am for one, happy to live our unnatural life. full of clothes, houses and charred bacon.
Humanity should not be confined by nature, whenever its about lifestyle, equipment, or sexuality.
Primates do it for fun too. Go watch some chimps in the zoo.
Children mature faster nowdays. But that is because of all the hormones in food products and the abudance of food.
Would you go to Africa and tell that to the kids over there, please?
There's no shortage of food in Africa either.
The problem lies with corrupt governments, civil war and warlords who use the distribution of food as a weapon.
What is important to me is the individual.
When I interact with another individual, I look straight into their heart and soul. Heterosexuals and homosexuals can be the source of great kindness and cruelty.
Instead of talking to someone about their sexuality, I would rather have a conversation about how we can protect our children, environment, economy, and country. As long as you have love within your heart, I could really careless about what you do in private.
i am 30 and i'm still playing with Starships.
your point is invalid.
I'm sorry sir I stand corrected!
Can two males physically produce a child, which will contain the 'direct' genetic elements of both parents?
Can two females physically produce a child, which will contain the 'direct' genetic elements of both parents?
Even though a homosexual and TRIBBLE couple can become loving parents, they cannot physically produce a child that directly combines their genetic make up.
...other words, the chances of meeting a child who shares George Takei and his husband's genetics is zero.
Its a shame. I respect George Takei on so many levels.
Too bad George Takei's 'direct' genetic lineage ends with him.
I hope George Takei will consider adopting a child, so at least his philosophies can live past his biological limitations.
George Takei is a talented, fun, and loving individual.
God bless him.
If you did a little bit more research, you would have learned that Roddenberry was not tolerant of religion. As a matter of overall fact, Roddenberry was very specific about his anti-religious beliefs. Roddenberry was not an angel. While he used "Star Trek" to spread the idea of tolerance, Roddenberry exercised a religious intolerance in public.
Dear Gods, your ignorance is staggering.
Have you ever bothered to see how many different diversity celebrations are held on a monthly basis in the US alone? Latinos have a month, African Americans have a month, Asian Americans have a month, and Pride Month just happens to fall in June because of the Stonewall Rebellion that happened in June 1969.
What do you think the "Few" are? Part of the whole. Any part of that few gets mistreated by the majority (Women, African-Americans, Latinos, LGBs, Trans) the whole is diminished.
African Americans were enslaved by white plantation owners in the US, why? Cheap labor and better profits, not to mention the fact that African Americans were only considered 3/5of a man...and subhuman. Women were considered too delicate to vote and make "men's" decisions. Latinos were classified "white" in Texas, but denied service and equal treatment. There are on the order of 30 states where being LGB may be used as a bar to equal employment and housing. I state these as facts.
Go read some history. As an academic I beg you to read history. It prevents wholesale ignorance such as you have displayed in this thread.
The celebration of diversity reminds us that we are truly one people, despite what others think. Pride, regardless of the group that celebrates it, is meant to not just remind others, it is meant to remind members of the group in question of their shared history and reminds us not to be ashamed of who we are...
This whole thread has devolved into a bunch of excuse making by people who are uncomfortable about LGBs being in their lives. Too bad. I am not "going back into the closet" for you or anybody else. The spirit of Trek is all about IDIC and equality.
I am tired of the majority of people whining about why they don't get equal treatment when the system is designed with inherent advantages for the majority (white, male, heterosexual) built in. Walk a mile in some other people's shoes, stop being bloody selfish.
Homosexuals have been having children for millennia. Your post is essentially stating that without artificial intervention, two members of the same sex cannot produce a child that combines the genetics of both parents?
I do not understand what your ultimate point is. Many couples are unable to conceive children except through artificial means. How are homosexuals particularly different?
The age of consent varies from state to state in the US. For heterosexual relations they range from 14 to 17. In most states those consent laws have been in existence since at least the 1940's or before. After Lawrence v Texas, some states established same sex age of consent laws, without exception the age of consent in all of those states is...18.
Despite your alarmist post, age of consent laws have been adjusted upward over the past twenty years, and the two states with ages of consent at 12 and 13 have been adjusted upward to 17. Oh, the US is a morass of immorality....and the sky is falling, chicken little.
I believe the reference was not celebrating any of these other cultural events in game. Not that there isn't a cultural event seemingly every week and month in the US and elsewhere. Inserting this event in game is something new. Having it advertised via an official blog post is something new. These are new items that certainly are worthy of discussion as they seemingly violate the barrier between the forums and political speach. Would you be so tolerant and understanding if the blog post was pushing for a recognition of traditional marriage and family units? Of course not as you view that as oppressive as it denies your view of individual liberty and autonomy. Similarly, pushing this event, on those who are disinclined to accept it is infringing on their ability to live their lives as they see it. You tout this as an event on diversity yet you don't seem to want to accept a diversity of opinion that can oppose it. Many of the opposite viewpoint view this event as pushing itself on the membership as it is being promoted by PWE.
Again, I have no issue with the event itself. My issue is with PWE promoting and endorsing such an event via a official announcement that is not available to anyone. It is opening the door to political events that can be quite controversial and as soon as they deny a similar event support to say an Abortion advocacy group, a Palestinian homeland advocacy group, Political parties in an election, or any other advocacy organization, they are picking winners and losers. If this event is allowed to be promoted, then PWE should allow any other political voice to be promoted. They won't and the denial of such support can and should cause an uproar. By opening the political door in game and bringing external debates inside the game, it creates bad feeling and infringes on players who just want to play the game.
I can now see Presidential candidates out-bidding each other on offering free zen if you vote for them
The problem is that most of the people who are objecting in this thread are intolerant and are not worried about the political implications. You are creating false equivalencies with your examples.
Once again, Star Trek as a franchise is political, always has been. Roddenberry had a humanist agenda that was reflected in the show/s. You might even say that Roddenberry desired a Utopian society. MMO's are multi-layered. For those people who just want to blow up stuff, they don't even have to be on the forums. They log in, blow up stuff, and have fun. There are people who join fleets that reflect their view of the game. For my part, I join a fleet where I feel safe. You ever see ESD chat? Play WoW and read the Barrens? Antigay slur after antigay slur...and you wonder why LGBT's generally join TRIBBLE friendly fleets/guilds/groups?
As far as I am concerned, this is all light and noise and no heat. If you don't want to celebrate Pride, don't. Ignore the blog, it has no implications for your enjoyment of the game. But the blog is there to celebrate not just orientation, but racial diversity, to point out ST as a franchise's contributions to society's arc towards a more just end equal world.
As for the rest of people here who don't care for LGB folks, you have my leave to just ignore us...but one day you folks are going to find out that spinster aunt was a TRIBBLE, or the artistically inclined cousin is TRIBBLE. The rough, tough automechanic brother really has a husband at home. Good luck when your personal world changes...or just do what some folks do, kick kin out the house for being "unnatural and wrong."
Why is it a false equivelence? The pride movement and advocacy for various changes to the civil and political system of various countries is similar to other advocacy groups demands for change. By granting the advertisement of this political movement when political advocacy is supposed to be prohibited on these forums it is creating a change and opens the door to other groups to demand similar treatment. This will not be granted because they are unwilling or unable to grant various groups the similar platform for advocacy.
It is far better for PWE to draw a bright line and avoid these issues. Instead they crossed this threshold and will now probably be seen as favoring certain groups and viewpoints. I am not saying to ban this event in the slightest, merely to avoid the official endorsement and prominance of an announcement. The event could have still been held and promoted by user generated posts promoting such an event.
All are welcome!
At what point did I state that a person had the right to do whatever they wanted? I stated they have the right to do as they choose as long as it does not persecute others.
Sexuality in whatever form is natural. We are not the only species that do it for pleasure, nor with homosexual tendencies. As for the "what if", you are talking a hypothetical situation that will not happen. There will always be members of a species to carry it on. That is kind of the ENTIRE point of the "celebrating diversity", in case you missed it. We don't all feel the same way, and we don't all have the same lifestyles, but everyone has the right to live their lifestyle. But I guess you missed that part.
As for the cause? Did you read it? Here, just in case you did not, is a copy/paste:
And, for the record, my cause in this situation is that everyone has the right to live their lives as they see fit, without persecution, so long as they in turn do not persecute others who do not share their ideals. There has been *NO* call by ANY group to imprison people for not sharing a belief such as this, or easily accepting behavior. That is not even REMOTELY what this is about.
So. Since MY cause is injust, let's turn this around 180 degrees. I do not believe that you have a "cause" to continue living your life as you see fit, without persecution, so long as you resepect others. THAT is what you say by saying I have no cause.
As long as people have different lifestyles, there will be disagreements about what is right and not right. I feel that people shouldn't be persecuted for their lifestyle so long as they harm nobody else in the pursuit of their own.
More of what I would say would be deemed to be inappropriate for a forum such as this, so I shall leave it unsaid. But the only thing that I have to say is: You don't have to like a person's lifestyle to allow them to live it, so long as it doesn't infringe upon your own. Too bad not all lifestyles seem capable of that.
Live long and prosper
Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.
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In my mind, there is one large difference here, however. The fleet event advertisement aside, the blog itself was about diversity, and was specifically pertaining to Star Trek. The groups mentioned ( I know, they are examples, but bear with me) have no pertinence to the IP, unless I am unaware of some connection.
I do understand your point, and on SOME levels, I agree. I would amend this:
If this event is allowed to be promoted, then PWE should allow any other political voice to be promoted.
To this:
If this event is allowed to be promoted, then PWE should allow any other political voice that can demonstrate a direct connection and relevance to the theme of Star Trek.
And would be somewhat happier with it.
Clearly, not every single voice can be heard this way, or every fleet event offer. There's only a guest blog every so often.
As for infringing anywhere, nobody is forced to participate in the event, or even to read the guest blog, so I fail to see any infringing on the ability to log in and play at will.
The blog was about tolerance and Star Trek, not TRIBBLE rights or TRIBBLE pride, a point that you and many other posters seem to have missed. The bit about the fleet's TRIBBLE pride celebration constituted a single paragraph.
This is hardly the first fleet event featured in the blogs. Your claim that, "PWE [is] promoting and endorsing such an event via a official announcement that is not available to anyone," is without merit. Have you submitted a blog entry relating to a Trek-related topic and including a paragraph about a public relations friendly event a major fleet is hosting and had it rejected?
If you, for instance, create a well-written blog about love and relationships in Star Trek which includes a paragraph inviting STO players to your fleet's valentine-themed event and it is rejected, you might have a point. As for the moment, you are simply speculating that PWE would reject such a blog.
That kind of generalization and straw man attack is the hallmark of intolerance and bigotry. How ironic that those supporting this politicization of Star Trek Online, under the guise of "diversity" and "tolerance", are willing to engage in the kind of thuggish stereotyping they claim to be defending against.
I find it unfortunate that someone with authority at STO chose to endorse a particular socio-political agenda, under the guise of a "guest blog". I have no confidence that this kind of endorsement (and extension of the forums as a bully pulpit) will be offered to other segments of the STO community, with differing opinions and competing "In Game" political events.
I will be writing to PWE/Cryptic and CBS about this unfortunate politicization of their gaming property. I will be explaining the possible loss of future purchases and word-of-mouth endorsements from this paying customer, if this unofficially official endorsement of controversial socio-political issues is not abated. Players should not be burdened by controversial, real-world, political proselytizing when they log in to play, or avail themselves of STO community resources, like the forum.
The only discussion of, "changes to the civil and political system of various countries," in the blog related directly to the Star Trek franchise, which I believe would not violate PWE's rules about discussing politics since it has a direct and obvious relationship to the game. Obviously, PWE editors agree.
As to your claim that the fleet's pride festivities are a political event, you are simply speculating.