My 2 cents about the patch:
1. New fleet holding - new (and possibly last) nail into small fleets' coffin. Very sad.
2. The fixes are good and long awaited.
you forgot the new 200,000 dil fleet base Special, tombstone pile in back with
"non-wallet worriers rest here" over the top of them, and that includes p2p players also lol
(also mentions Quark as creator, must pay 25 slips of latinum to enter, at 37 strips to read tombstones)
Thats been my fear. I have a lot of credits built up in the small fleet I'm in, I'd hate to go to a larger fleet and get ripped somehow. Usually large game groups exist so that the upper members can get elite things
I really do not understand this Gloom and Doom for small fleets. Prior to today, the small fleets continue to work on their bases, even though they could quit and go to a large fleet. Why wouldn't they already have done so?
If you really believe that your small fleet is held together by these holdings, you missed the point of a fleet... its the social interaction and friendships built... not the holdings.
I do not have a huge mega fleet, have about 120-130 toons, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 active. Its been a struggle, at times, to get where we are, and I know that I could have, and any fleet mate could have left for a larger, more "advanced" fleet. But you know something, I haven't lost more than a handful of players... fact is... i used to lose more before the fleet system (it would get quite in chat)
The fleet holdings is something that has actually brought us closer together, inspired more chat (hey how do you get dilithium, whats the best way to get Fleet Marks), lot of talk and teaming going on (Hey going to run Defera for FM, anyone want to join).
In this regards, the fleet holdings helped take my fleet to the next level. No I do not have a T5 anything yet, but we will get there...
Very well worded. I have the credits built where I could buy so much in a large fleet, but there is the pride in plugging away at a huge challenge. Different strokes I guess
The fleet holdings is something that has actually brought us closer together, inspired more chat (hey how do you get dilithium, whats the best way to get Fleet Marks), lot of talk and teaming going on (Hey going to run Defera for FM, anyone want to join).
That is a very good point there. The most fun out of a MMO comes from teaming. There is nothing like building a strong team of people you know and trust to do the job and then fly together in the face of danger and excitement.
Rob2425, my post was in response to the person saying the new holding is the final nail in the small fleets coffin. Sorry for the confusion.
You made the comment about how some fleets (this can be small medium or marge btw), are really restrictive on who can get what. That's a politics issue, and a reason I never quite understood why people put up with... again, I am not large fleet bashing here.
This is a general comment, not directed at you Rob.
/soapbox on
If you contribute to the construction of the holding, and your fleet leader doesn't allow you to buy anything with the fleet credits YOU earned... take them to another fleet, you don't lose anything. The credits you earn donating to any fleets' projects are yours, regardless of which fleet you belong to.
You are NOT there to work for the fleet leader... if anything, the fleet leadership should be working to enhance your game play.... in hopes of keeping you on board, happy, and content so you will continue to help advance the fleet.
/soapbox off
why don't cryptic do something to help small fleets of less than 20 or 10 player in them?
what i mean:
why dont cryptic lower the requirements for less players in a small fleet of 10-20 players that way we can ALL benefit from getting to tier 5 to reep the rewards of fleet ships and weapons.
do the fleet requirements by how many players are in a fleet.
do something like a tier system.
why don't cryptic do something to help small fleets of less than 20 or 10 player in them?
what i mean:
why dont cryptic lower the requirements for less players in a small fleet of 10-20 players that way we can ALL benefit from getting to tier 5 to reep the rewards of fleet ships and weapons.
do the fleet requirements by how many players are in a fleet.
do something like a tier system.
worth thinking about.
This has been rehashed so many times, and the problem is that sliding requirements are up for abuse. Large fleet kicks all members to 10, then just invites players back in... rotates who is in the "main" fleet keeping the cost evenly distributed and low.
The general response to this, is set a "max level" for the fleet... as a fleet leader, I would'nt support this, as it caps my fleet size, regardless of anything else... so even next year my fleet became insanely popular (due to my awesomeness I'm sure :rolleyes:) The fleet could never grow beyond what I set it to way back when...
Of course the argument comes, well let us change it later... but then it turns into the same problem of large fleet getting cheap base.
Sigh... there is no effective mechanism that is fair to everyone.
why don't cryptic do something to help small fleets of less than 20 or 10 player in them?
what i mean:
why dont cryptic lower the requirements for less players in a small fleet of 10-20 players that way we can ALL benefit from getting to tier 5 to reep the rewards of fleet ships and weapons.
do the fleet requirements by how many players are in a fleet.
do something like a tier system.
worth thinking about.
here is an idea instead of people ******** about small fleets getting disadvantages why don't they merge with others that way there no aggro to the cryptic people who are doing everything thay can to give you the nice things that have for you.
That wasn't my point or intent in my post. What I meant was in some of the bigger fleets the top people get the best stuff and due to not assigning permissions lower players can't get or have to beg sometimes to get access to provisioning stuff even if they are decent contributors to the projects. Anyway My point I was trying to make is that I am in a small fleet and although it is a struggle sometimes to get stuff done with the big projects sitting for days or even weeks, I enjoy the small community. Personally my fleet is much stronger with a smaller group. The fleet I am in used to be a lot bigger but we had several people take our provisions and ditch the fleet.
I also, don't think leaving to go to a big fleet at this point is a good thing to do for me personally. I would feel like an outcast since most larger fleets are t4/t5 on the base and t3 for the most part on the embassy.
With most of the stuff done I would feel like I was coming in empty handed and wouldn't be accepted socially in the group. The way I look at it is you want to join the fleet what can you offer to the group. Since the purpose of a fleet is to work as a team.
I was in a big fleet, one that wanted to do lots of group activities. We began to loose members at an alarming rate because the fleet leader insisted that we either comply or hit the road. In a month I went from a low rank to a high rank in the fleet because everybody above me ran screaming, and eventually so did I. I am in a smaller fleet now, one where my steady donations to fleet projects got me permissions to buy fleet provisions. I am happy now.
My point is on big fleets. Some are run like JonesTown. The people at the top get drunk with power and believe that the lower ranks are there merely to serve their masters. For me, fleets of over 100 active players are NOT fun places to be. I prefer lower to mid sized fleets where players have something in common with each other other than just being in a fleet together.
I found a fleet with a highly personal adult theme, so I cant say what it is in public. But I am 'Home' now, I actually fit in with these guys, and can join in any fleet chat without feeling out of place.
My 2 cents, you want to make fleets more inviting - scale the fleet project investment requirements based on the number of fleet members. Fewer fleet members means lower fleet contribution totals to achieve upgrades - More fleet members means higher fleet contribution totals to achieve upgrades. It would encourage fleets to trim inactive players, and would encourage players to be more active in their fleets to avoid being trimmed for inactivity.
why don't cryptic do something to help small fleets of less than 20 or 10 player in them?
what i mean:
why dont cryptic lower the requirements for less players in a small fleet of 10-20 players that way we can ALL benefit from getting to tier 5 to reep the rewards of fleet ships and weapons.
do the fleet requirements by how many players are in a fleet.
do something like a tier system.
worth thinking about.
Nah. People would instantly abuse this feature to form, say, 5-man fleets to gain undue high rewards. Very bad idea.
Also, there's an overall flawed assumption is this thread that Cryptic is giving bigger fleets an unfair advantage somehow. Not so. The only advantage bigger fleets enjoy is a generic one, caused by humans banding together to get things done faster: that *always* makes things easier -- not Cryptic's fault. It's like you ppl are b*tching it's harder to build a pyramid with 5 ppl than with 500. Duh.
The only advantage bigger fleets enjoy is a generic one, caused by humans banding together to get things done faster: that *always* makes things easier.
I think the exact same thing with most of the its unfair to small fleet threads.
Nah. People would instantly abuse this feature to form, say, 5-man fleets to gain undue high rewards. Very bad idea.
Also, there's an overall flawed assumption is this thread that Cryptic is giving bigger fleets an unfair advantage somehow. Not so. The only advantage bigger fleets enjoy is a generic one, caused by humans banding together to get things done faster: that *always* makes things easier -- not Cryptic's fault. It's like you ppl are b*tching it's harder to build a pyramid with 5 ppl than with 500. Duh.
Make a fleet population requirement for some fleet projects. "You need 'X' fleet members before you can initiate this project."
That is a very good point there. The most fun out of a MMO comes from teaming. There is nothing like building a strong team of people you know and trust to do the job and then fly together in the face of danger and excitement.
The issue is many people enjoy being in fleets with 2-5 good friends. However lets be honest... the projects are obviously balanced with fleets that have 30+ active members involved.
I don't care if I don't have things first... but not being able to access things for a year is just silly.
It also creates a black market in the game of selling fleet access.
Frankly what they need to do is.
Scale fleet projects to fleet size... and then find away to end the black market.
Or else yes 2-3 guys will form a fleet with the only intention being to sell access when they hit tier 5. (that happens on the larger scale of course but we don't have to make that easier) Of course as long as people are getting access and dropping D and in the end real $ I Don't think Cryptic cares.
What they need to do is find away to remove the ability to invite people for the only purpose to purchase items and leave. Perhaps to purchase each tier of gear we should all have to unlock our own personal tier purchase project.
With tier 5 being a 1 week cool down... at that point you can't simply spam ESD zone chat and sell access for in game currency. (which is often being bought with real $, and at times that $ is going to gold spammers)
Nah. People would instantly abuse this feature to form, say, 5-man fleets to gain undue high rewards. Very bad idea.
Also, there's an overall flawed assumption is this thread that Cryptic is giving bigger fleets an unfair advantage somehow. Not so. The only advantage bigger fleets enjoy is a generic one, caused by humans banding together to get things done faster: that *always* makes things easier -- not Cryptic's fault. It's like you ppl are b*tching it's harder to build a pyramid with 5 ppl than with 500. Duh.
^^This pretty much sums up my opinion on the issue. A larger group of people is going to be able to do something with less effort per person than a smaller group trying to do that same thing.
I understand that building a Starbase is a monumental project for 5 people. I don't understand making a concious decision to be part of a small fleet, then complaining about the increased effort.
I really do not understand this Gloom and Doom for small fleets. Prior to today, the small fleets continue to work on their bases, even though they could quit and go to a large fleet. Why wouldn't they already have done so?
If you really believe that your small fleet is held together by these holdings, you missed the point of a fleet... its the social interaction and friendships built... not the holdings.
I do not have a huge mega fleet, have about 120-130 toons, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 active. Its been a struggle, at times, to get where we are, and I know that I could have, and any fleet mate could have left for a larger, more "advanced" fleet. But you know something, I haven't lost more than a handful of players... fact is... i used to lose more before the fleet system (it would get quite in chat)
The fleet holdings is something that has actually brought us closer together, inspired more chat (hey how do you get dilithium, whats the best way to get Fleet Marks), lot of talk and teaming going on (Hey going to run Defera for FM, anyone want to join).
In this regards, the fleet holdings helped take my fleet to the next level. No I do not have a T5 anything yet, but we will get there...
I agree with you, because you are right. *United Balkans Fleet* is small fleet, and few of us are active but we work on projects together. We team up not only for taking fleet marks, omega marks, romulan marks, but to have fun together. We first started our own channel, then we made our fleet. We share informations about everything in the game we are willing to help every member of our fleet even with Energy credits, with weapons that other member of the fleet is looking for. We want that all the members of the fleet talk with us the top, share ideas, have fun, help other members, etc.
I am working on dillitium projects that are 200 000 with both of my toons, Romulan and Federation, others are filling other projects in holdings, together we get fleet marks for that projects. Work is slow and hard, it is true, but I can say that I do not have to beg sometimes to get access to buy fleet stuff. You want to buy fleet stuff you can do that. And there will be always people that will take stuff that we collected and ditch the fleet.
^^This pretty much sums up my opinion on the issue. A larger group of people is going to be able to do something with less effort per person than a smaller group trying to do that same thing.
I understand that building a Starbase is a monumental project for 5 people. I don't understand making a conscious decision to be part of a small fleet, then complaining about the increased effort.
I completely agree there. As someone who has a small fleet : "Servants of SOL" is only 5 man strong, with only 2 on regularly, Upping the fleet has been a complete toll on our resources but it's what we want to do. I'm happy that there is more to work towards, it's not like Rep-faction equipment is hard to get. Without the fleet I'd be done with a toon in 2 weeks and be waiting on MK XII stuff.
Sadly I'm not only hearing complaints about it only being for big fleets but also from those that play an MMO but don't want to be in a fleet. I'm definitely detecting a lot of backwards thinking.
On another topic, I still don't see anything about the JHAS Carrier pets being put back in the dilithium store. I guess it's only a matter of time though!
Comments
you forgot the new 200,000 dil fleet base Special, tombstone pile in back with
"non-wallet worriers rest here" over the top of them, and that includes p2p players also lol
(also mentions Quark as creator, must pay 25 slips of latinum to enter, at 37 strips to read tombstones)
Disco Inferno
Burn baby burn
I think people were saying it takes considerably more than 2 cents to fill these huge projects. :P
no it is not on da list lol
wanted to beat the Delta Meme n00bs LOL
Join Date a player made up is NOT correct!
If you really believe that your small fleet is held together by these holdings, you missed the point of a fleet... its the social interaction and friendships built... not the holdings.
I do not have a huge mega fleet, have about 120-130 toons, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 active. Its been a struggle, at times, to get where we are, and I know that I could have, and any fleet mate could have left for a larger, more "advanced" fleet. But you know something, I haven't lost more than a handful of players... fact is... i used to lose more before the fleet system (it would get quite in chat)
The fleet holdings is something that has actually brought us closer together, inspired more chat (hey how do you get dilithium, whats the best way to get Fleet Marks), lot of talk and teaming going on (Hey going to run Defera for FM, anyone want to join).
In this regards, the fleet holdings helped take my fleet to the next level. No I do not have a T5 anything yet, but we will get there...
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
That is a very good point there. The most fun out of a MMO comes from teaming. There is nothing like building a strong team of people you know and trust to do the job and then fly together in the face of danger and excitement.
Hrm. I really hope this is getting fixed, but it's weird that they wouldn't include this in the patch notes.
You made the comment about how some fleets (this can be small medium or marge btw), are really restrictive on who can get what. That's a politics issue, and a reason I never quite understood why people put up with... again, I am not large fleet bashing here.
This is a general comment, not directed at you Rob.
/soapbox on
If you contribute to the construction of the holding, and your fleet leader doesn't allow you to buy anything with the fleet credits YOU earned... take them to another fleet, you don't lose anything. The credits you earn donating to any fleets' projects are yours, regardless of which fleet you belong to.
You are NOT there to work for the fleet leader... if anything, the fleet leadership should be working to enhance your game play.... in hopes of keeping you on board, happy, and content so you will continue to help advance the fleet.
/soapbox off
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
why don't cryptic do something to help small fleets of less than 20 or 10 player in them?
what i mean:
why dont cryptic lower the requirements for less players in a small fleet of 10-20 players that way we can ALL benefit from getting to tier 5 to reep the rewards of fleet ships and weapons.
do the fleet requirements by how many players are in a fleet.
do something like a tier system.
worth thinking about.
This has been rehashed so many times, and the problem is that sliding requirements are up for abuse. Large fleet kicks all members to 10, then just invites players back in... rotates who is in the "main" fleet keeping the cost evenly distributed and low.
The general response to this, is set a "max level" for the fleet... as a fleet leader, I would'nt support this, as it caps my fleet size, regardless of anything else... so even next year my fleet became insanely popular (due to my awesomeness I'm sure :rolleyes:) The fleet could never grow beyond what I set it to way back when...
Of course the argument comes, well let us change it later... but then it turns into the same problem of large fleet getting cheap base.
Sigh... there is no effective mechanism that is fair to everyone.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
here is an idea instead of people ******** about small fleets getting disadvantages why don't they merge with others that way there no aggro to the cryptic people who are doing everything thay can to give you the nice things that have for you.
I was in a big fleet, one that wanted to do lots of group activities. We began to loose members at an alarming rate because the fleet leader insisted that we either comply or hit the road. In a month I went from a low rank to a high rank in the fleet because everybody above me ran screaming, and eventually so did I. I am in a smaller fleet now, one where my steady donations to fleet projects got me permissions to buy fleet provisions. I am happy now.
My point is on big fleets. Some are run like JonesTown. The people at the top get drunk with power and believe that the lower ranks are there merely to serve their masters. For me, fleets of over 100 active players are NOT fun places to be. I prefer lower to mid sized fleets where players have something in common with each other other than just being in a fleet together.
I found a fleet with a highly personal adult theme, so I cant say what it is in public. But I am 'Home' now, I actually fit in with these guys, and can join in any fleet chat without feeling out of place.
My 2 cents, you want to make fleets more inviting - scale the fleet project investment requirements based on the number of fleet members. Fewer fleet members means lower fleet contribution totals to achieve upgrades - More fleet members means higher fleet contribution totals to achieve upgrades. It would encourage fleets to trim inactive players, and would encourage players to be more active in their fleets to avoid being trimmed for inactivity.
Nah. People would instantly abuse this feature to form, say, 5-man fleets to gain undue high rewards. Very bad idea.
Also, there's an overall flawed assumption is this thread that Cryptic is giving bigger fleets an unfair advantage somehow. Not so. The only advantage bigger fleets enjoy is a generic one, caused by humans banding together to get things done faster: that *always* makes things easier -- not Cryptic's fault. It's like you ppl are b*tching it's harder to build a pyramid with 5 ppl than with 500. Duh.
I think the exact same thing with most of the its unfair to small fleet threads.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Make a fleet population requirement for some fleet projects. "You need 'X' fleet members before you can initiate this project."
That would clearly kill out smaller fleets.
well said!
I don't care if I don't have things first... but not being able to access things for a year is just silly.
It also creates a black market in the game of selling fleet access.
Frankly what they need to do is.
Scale fleet projects to fleet size... and then find away to end the black market.
Or else yes 2-3 guys will form a fleet with the only intention being to sell access when they hit tier 5. (that happens on the larger scale of course but we don't have to make that easier) Of course as long as people are getting access and dropping D and in the end real $ I Don't think Cryptic cares.
What they need to do is find away to remove the ability to invite people for the only purpose to purchase items and leave. Perhaps to purchase each tier of gear we should all have to unlock our own personal tier purchase project.
With tier 5 being a 1 week cool down... at that point you can't simply spam ESD zone chat and sell access for in game currency. (which is often being bought with real $, and at times that $ is going to gold spammers)
^^This pretty much sums up my opinion on the issue. A larger group of people is going to be able to do something with less effort per person than a smaller group trying to do that same thing.
I understand that building a Starbase is a monumental project for 5 people. I don't understand making a concious decision to be part of a small fleet, then complaining about the increased effort.
I agree with you, because you are right. *United Balkans Fleet* is small fleet, and few of us are active but we work on projects together. We team up not only for taking fleet marks, omega marks, romulan marks, but to have fun together. We first started our own channel, then we made our fleet. We share informations about everything in the game we are willing to help every member of our fleet even with Energy credits, with weapons that other member of the fleet is looking for. We want that all the members of the fleet talk with us the top, share ideas, have fun, help other members, etc.
I am working on dillitium projects that are 200 000 with both of my toons, Romulan and Federation, others are filling other projects in holdings, together we get fleet marks for that projects. Work is slow and hard, it is true, but I can say that I do not have to beg sometimes to get access to buy fleet stuff. You want to buy fleet stuff you can do that. And there will be always people that will take stuff that we collected and ditch the fleet.
I got it down already ... just poking the servers till they let me in. LOL
I completely agree there. As someone who has a small fleet : "Servants of SOL" is only 5 man strong, with only 2 on regularly, Upping the fleet has been a complete toll on our resources but it's what we want to do. I'm happy that there is more to work towards, it's not like Rep-faction equipment is hard to get. Without the fleet I'd be done with a toon in 2 weeks and be waiting on MK XII stuff.
Sadly I'm not only hearing complaints about it only being for big fleets but also from those that play an MMO but don't want to be in a fleet. I'm definitely detecting a lot of backwards thinking.
On another topic, I still don't see anything about the JHAS Carrier pets being put back in the dilithium store. I guess it's only a matter of time though!