Perhaps nothing is wrong with fleets selling access. I guess... of course it sort of kills the its hard there for fun argument.
I will have what ever gear I want the day fleets start hitting max on anything... cause I been playing 3 years and have close to a billion ec... Anytime I decided I need another couple million I just own a market for a day or two. Not hard to do when you have that sort of capital.
However my friends who play the game and are not the 200+ member fleet types... they end up getting turned off the game and leaving.
Its an issue for Cryptics customer retention.
If the fleet gear was mostly cosmetic it wouldn't be an issue... however they have went well beyond cosmetic.. where most of the best gear is only offered to people through long grind convoluted grind schemes.
Yes IMO selling access is the main reason why they can't tailor projects to fleet size. IMO Cryptic is better off with 1000s of smaller fleets all working and loggin in every day. Then having a handful of fleets selling access to there holdings. It doesn't help there retention numbers at all... and frankly it creates situations where Real life money is getting traded and Cryptic is being cut out completely.
Other then this creates Fleet TRIBBLE who swap from fleet to fleet to get wahat they want.
whats next legalized Gazmbling? oh wait forgot we have dabo and lockboxes lol :P
What does fleet size have to do with todays maintenance. Talk about off topic.Now go patch up if you haven't. Server restarts in about 35 min
This patch has everything to do with the fleet size debate. Another holding is being introduced, so smaller fleets feel like they are even further behind compared to large fleets.
I personally find it ironic however, the Dilithium Mine holding will actually benefit smaller fleets more than larger established ones. If you top off your mine first, everything else gets a discount on dilithium. Larger established fleets have already completed most of the projects that they would have received discounts on. They lose out. Sure they benefit for future projects but have already lost millions of refined dilithium to past projects.
The only fleets that will actually get the most benefit from this holding are new fleets that grow larger since they can level their holdings quickly and get a discount from the mine.
That's how I see it... and what first order logic dictates...
Come on Sollvax.... you can't be serious. Restrict buying for 28 days?
Why? There is a market of people out there who don't want to work towards a leveled base... I don't like the practice... but I understand it. There are people willing to drop whatever to have the latest thing... and hey if thats how they like to play/pay... then no skin off my nose. The fleets that worked hard to level a base are simply supplying something the market wants.
BUT I also think it has a lot to do with the fleet you belong to... I have lost a small handful of people... SMALL handful... All in all, membership and activity are up. Fleet is working together, even though we could simply fleet hop for the latest new and shiny.
Funny thing is... my fleet doesn't. I'm not a small fleet, definitely not a mega fleet... there are members I've had little contact with... but we all pull in the same direction, and seem happy to do so. We enjoy eachothers company... help eachother out... if it were only about the gear... there are much easier (and in the long run cheaper) ways to get it... but oddly, very few go that route.
I'd almost argue, if you are losing large numbers of players to fleet hopping... you might want to examine other aspects of your fleet.
it is a deceptive ploy! a LIE! a big stinking romulan bred LIIIEEEEE! this whole ploy was an elaborate plot to try and ... sell fluffy kittens! yay!!! lol
This patch has everything to do with the fleet size debate. Another holding is being introduced, so smaller fleets feel like they are even further behind compared to large fleets.
I personally find it ironic however, the Dilithium Mine holding will actually benefit smaller fleets more than larger established ones. If you top off your mine first, everything else gets a discount on dilithium. Larger established fleets have already completed most of the project that they would have received discounts on. They lose out. Sure they benefit for future projects but have already lost millions of refined dilithium to past projects.
The only fleets that will actually get the most benefit from this holding are new fleets that grow larger since they can level their holdings quickly and get a discount from the mine.
That's how I see it... and what first order logic dictates...
:cool:
There is a little problem with your reasoning:
Small fleets won't have the discount because they do not have the resources to build a high lvl mine in the first place. The first discount with T1 is 4% I believe. That should be doable but after that it gets really expensive pretty fast. That means a small fleet won't have T2 or even T3 for a long time. Also if they put all resources into the mine they can not advance the other projects they have not finished yet.
Also with the current rate of new holdings I suppose a small fleet will not be able to finish the mine before the next holding even assuming the dump everything into it.
To add insult to injury there are elite fleet warp cores. That probably means you need T3 to get them. In the embassy a least you get the same consoles with the same stats, only a bit lower. With the mine you are missing on certain mods on your warp core, like there was one that gives 3.3% dmg for each power over 75 I think. Which could be a 13.2% dmg increase if you manage that with all 4 power lvls.
This holding makes it much worse for small fleets. That discount they will be able to reach is rather small (4%), that won't help. Also there is new good gear they won't have and they will have to stop their advancement of the existing fleet holdings in hopes of getting a really minor benefit in costs from the mine.
But I do agree that large fleets do not really need the discount. Which is kind of ironic because they will be the only ones who have a real discount.
Look. if you've got five people in your fleet, you're not a fleet. you're a team.
Sorry if you cant get the stuff that costs a lot to get.
If you want it in your small fleet, break out that visa mastercard like half of the 'Large" fleets did anyway.
Stop fooling yourself 'n thinking that just because you have 300 members in your fleet these things just get magically filled up 'n progressed for cheap.
In most cases of high level fleets, there are a small group, 5 to 10 members that have born most of the burden of building the base anyway.
You wanna know what advantage large fleets have over small fleets truly in terms of donations?
Fleet Marks and Expertise.
That's it.
By and Large, that's all the majority of fleet mates want to put into their base.
So if your fleet doesn't have those people willing to sacrifice and come out of their pocket for the construction, then that's on you to fill that role.
You've got 5 people who want to grind their toons rep 'n make their ec 'n whatever else. Then construction is an afterthought. Tough Shi*.
You don't belong running a top tier fleet.
Demote your self back to ensign so that your responsibilities' and rank fit with your actions.
Look. if you've got five people in your fleet, you're not a fleet. you're a team.
Sorry if you cant get the stuff that costs a lot to get.
If you want it in your small fleet, break out that visa mastercard like half of the 'Large" fleets did anyway.
Stop fooling yourself 'n thinking that just because you have 300 members in your fleet these things just get magically filled up 'n progressed for cheap.
In most cases of high level fleets, there are a small group, 5 to 10 members that have born most of the burden of building the base anyway.
You wanna know what advantage large fleets have over small fleets truly in terms of donations?
Fleet Marks and Expertise.
That's it.
By and Large, that's all the majority of fleet mates want to put into their base.
So if your fleet doesn't have those people willing to sacrifice and come out of their pocket for the construction, then that's on you to fill that role.
You've got 5 people who want to grind their toons rep 'n make their ec 'n whatever else. Then construction is an afterthought. Tough Shi*.
You don't belong running a top tier fleet.
Demote your self back to ensign so that your responsibilities' and rank fit with your actions.
Translation: "My way is the only right way to play the game. If you think otherwise, you're wrong."
In most cases of high level fleets, there are a small group, 5 to 10 members that have born most of the burden of building the base anyway.
I actually kind of wonder how true this is; I wish fleet leaderboards were publicly available.
I know in my fleet (about... 200 people, I want to say, though a lot of those are alts?) there are maybe 5-10 people who have over 1m in contributions and the rest are below that.
After reading through the last few pages, I can see that both sides of the debate are valid. Building a fleet base is by choice. If it was not for the high end rewards, the temptation to build a fleet base would not be so alluring.
Cryptic has to make revenue, so they can keep the doors open. I completely support the capitalistic mentality. People want to get paid for their craft and services. I do as well.
Perhaps the problem is a little more complex? While many of the big fleets are being lead by obsessive MMO veterans, the smaller fleets may be owned by casual single-player rookies? "Star Trek: Online" is my first ever experience with a massive multiplayer game. Since I am use to reaching goals at a steady pace, the long term nature of "Star Trek: Online" may not be holding my attention. Outside of reaching certain reputation and fleet base tiers, the majority of the 'instant' rewards I have obtained are through the c-store. Once I unlocked certain game items, I dag into my zen to purchase dilithium. I did not want to prolong the process.
Most people like to be rewarded rather quickly. Diehard MMO players are very obsessive, so they have no problem with grinding. I do not think that is normal.
I actually kind of wonder how true this is; I wish fleet leaderboards were publicly available.
I know in my fleet (about... 200 people, I want to say, though a lot of those are alts?) there are maybe 5-10 people who have over 1m in contributions and the rest are below that.
This is pretty accurate. Though I will say, I topped off most of the million easily the first weeks of Nukara when there was no cooldown on Medium diff missions (900FM earned each time event was up).
Translation: "My way is the only right way to play the game. If you think otherwise, you're wrong."
Its not my way to play troll.
Its cryptics way to play.
Ever stop to think maybe you're not supposed to be able to "max out" on everything?
Everyone wants to be in charge of their own little fleet 'n have all the benefits of all the elite gear without paying the price.
Hey I got an idea, lets just throw all the stuff available into a big 'free' pile on esd and qonos 'n let everyone come just grab up what they need then we'll all fly around super ships 'n get bored in a week.
Comments
Other then this creates Fleet TRIBBLE who swap from fleet to fleet to get wahat they want.
whats next legalized Gazmbling? oh wait forgot we have dabo and lockboxes lol :P
galacticguards.enjin.com/
Formerly Jewkesman Member from Nov 2009!
don't poke them too hard, they just might crash:eek:
Did you even read the patch notes?
Yes i did The only one that interested me was the one about Spin The Wheel giving warp cores.
This patch has everything to do with the fleet size debate. Another holding is being introduced, so smaller fleets feel like they are even further behind compared to large fleets.
I personally find it ironic however, the Dilithium Mine holding will actually benefit smaller fleets more than larger established ones. If you top off your mine first, everything else gets a discount on dilithium. Larger established fleets have already completed most of the projects that they would have received discounts on. They lose out. Sure they benefit for future projects but have already lost millions of refined dilithium to past projects.
The only fleets that will actually get the most benefit from this holding are new fleets that grow larger since they can level their holdings quickly and get a discount from the mine.
That's how I see it... and what first order logic dictates...
:cool:
Why? There is a market of people out there who don't want to work towards a leveled base... I don't like the practice... but I understand it. There are people willing to drop whatever to have the latest thing... and hey if thats how they like to play/pay... then no skin off my nose. The fleets that worked hard to level a base are simply supplying something the market wants.
BUT I also think it has a lot to do with the fleet you belong to... I have lost a small handful of people... SMALL handful... All in all, membership and activity are up. Fleet is working together, even though we could simply fleet hop for the latest new and shiny.
Funny thing is... my fleet doesn't. I'm not a small fleet, definitely not a mega fleet... there are members I've had little contact with... but we all pull in the same direction, and seem happy to do so. We enjoy eachothers company... help eachother out... if it were only about the gear... there are much easier (and in the long run cheaper) ways to get it... but oddly, very few go that route.
I'd almost argue, if you are losing large numbers of players to fleet hopping... you might want to examine other aspects of your fleet.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Read the part about the dilithium stuff for fleets...
Not that I buy into the whole "death of small fleets" thing - but as with most projects, it is far harder to achieve the benefits with a smaller fleet
There is a little problem with your reasoning:
Small fleets won't have the discount because they do not have the resources to build a high lvl mine in the first place. The first discount with T1 is 4% I believe. That should be doable but after that it gets really expensive pretty fast. That means a small fleet won't have T2 or even T3 for a long time. Also if they put all resources into the mine they can not advance the other projects they have not finished yet.
Also with the current rate of new holdings I suppose a small fleet will not be able to finish the mine before the next holding even assuming the dump everything into it.
To add insult to injury there are elite fleet warp cores. That probably means you need T3 to get them. In the embassy a least you get the same consoles with the same stats, only a bit lower. With the mine you are missing on certain mods on your warp core, like there was one that gives 3.3% dmg for each power over 75 I think. Which could be a 13.2% dmg increase if you manage that with all 4 power lvls.
This holding makes it much worse for small fleets. That discount they will be able to reach is rather small (4%), that won't help. Also there is new good gear they won't have and they will have to stop their advancement of the existing fleet holdings in hopes of getting a really minor benefit in costs from the mine.
But I do agree that large fleets do not really need the discount. Which is kind of ironic because they will be the only ones who have a real discount.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
Sorry if you cant get the stuff that costs a lot to get.
If you want it in your small fleet, break out that visa mastercard like half of the 'Large" fleets did anyway.
Stop fooling yourself 'n thinking that just because you have 300 members in your fleet these things just get magically filled up 'n progressed for cheap.
In most cases of high level fleets, there are a small group, 5 to 10 members that have born most of the burden of building the base anyway.
You wanna know what advantage large fleets have over small fleets truly in terms of donations?
Fleet Marks and Expertise.
That's it.
By and Large, that's all the majority of fleet mates want to put into their base.
So if your fleet doesn't have those people willing to sacrifice and come out of their pocket for the construction, then that's on you to fill that role.
You've got 5 people who want to grind their toons rep 'n make their ec 'n whatever else. Then construction is an afterthought. Tough Shi*.
You don't belong running a top tier fleet.
Demote your self back to ensign so that your responsibilities' and rank fit with your actions.
Translation: "My way is the only right way to play the game. If you think otherwise, you're wrong."
I actually kind of wonder how true this is; I wish fleet leaderboards were publicly available.
I know in my fleet (about... 200 people, I want to say, though a lot of those are alts?) there are maybe 5-10 people who have over 1m in contributions and the rest are below that.
Cryptic has to make revenue, so they can keep the doors open. I completely support the capitalistic mentality. People want to get paid for their craft and services. I do as well.
Perhaps the problem is a little more complex? While many of the big fleets are being lead by obsessive MMO veterans, the smaller fleets may be owned by casual single-player rookies? "Star Trek: Online" is my first ever experience with a massive multiplayer game. Since I am use to reaching goals at a steady pace, the long term nature of "Star Trek: Online" may not be holding my attention. Outside of reaching certain reputation and fleet base tiers, the majority of the 'instant' rewards I have obtained are through the c-store. Once I unlocked certain game items, I dag into my zen to purchase dilithium. I did not want to prolong the process.
Most people like to be rewarded rather quickly. Diehard MMO players are very obsessive, so they have no problem with grinding. I do not think that is normal.
This is pretty accurate. Though I will say, I topped off most of the million easily the first weeks of Nukara when there was no cooldown on Medium diff missions (900FM earned each time event was up).
Its not my way to play troll.
Its cryptics way to play.
Ever stop to think maybe you're not supposed to be able to "max out" on everything?
Everyone wants to be in charge of their own little fleet 'n have all the benefits of all the elite gear without paying the price.
Hey I got an idea, lets just throw all the stuff available into a big 'free' pile on esd and qonos 'n let everyone come just grab up what they need then we'll all fly around super ships 'n get bored in a week.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=