I think that "perspective" has left this thread a long time ago ... .
We don't need any forceful intervention to stop the Toothers from standing next to folks and spraying them with fire extinguishers in game.
But it is worth pointing out that standing next to folks and spraying them with fire extinguishers really does sort of make you a jerk.
Going down in memory lane I seem to remember some fun dance party's @ Drozana and ESD .
At least a dozen of ppl dancing all over the place , fire extinguishers , party poppers the works .
The above is what registers as "Fun times" for me .
Ppl invited other ppl because there was a dance party .
What made it fun was that it was fun for everybody .
Now take that , and put it against ppl trying to RP (yes , even ERP) , and getting fire extinguishers in their face other trollish behavior aimed at them .
Dance Party = Cool .
Bothering RP ppl intentionally (or any ppl intentionally 4 that matter) = not very cool .
That's how I see things , and that is why I am equally bothered by the Mentals & Co. and Sollvax .
There's no need for insults. You can discuss the topic without bringing it down to personal attacks.
I don't recall personally attacking any individual ... , and wasn't it "your side" that tooted the horns of "free speech" in this thread first ?
That door swings both ways you know .
Oh , and a greefer complaining about personal attacks is funny, I have to admit .
I don't recall personally attacking anyone ... , and wasn't it "your side" that tooted the horns of "free speech" in this thread first ?
That door swings both ways you know .
Oh , and a greefer complaining about personal attacks is funny, I have to admit .
Why do you think calling someone "Mentals" is not insulting?
We are not "greefers" it is you that is saying that. You need to justify your inappropriate behaviour.
You should also learn about fighting words. Fighting words are not protected as free speech.
Your accusation is serious and misdirected. One of the things that you do appear to be aware of is that there are players which are upset about their public erotic roleplaying being interrupted. They try to ruin roleplaying threads by making veiled accusations and lying about our activities. There are crackpots which are actually blaming us for server queues, how would someone even believe something so crazy.
I am not in a position to say whether or not you cause server queues, that being said Denial of Service attacks aren't uncommon on the internet. None the less one should be careful about being accused of such things.
So when you start accusing us of the very thing we continually report in game you are behaving the same way as people that have been reported or may have had some form of sanction against themselves. The way you have worded it it looks like you are involved in these activities. Some careful wording and discussing the topic at hand would be more appropriate.
If you're own propaganda machine is to be believed, you act in terms of zone denial to all RPers Erotic or not. Trying to associate me with those things because I disagree with you is flimsy at best. I have on several occasions been victim to inappropriate comments/behaviour in the past from members of various guilds and my only involvement in those matters is as such.
I do not want to discuss any GM actions or work arounds for systems as this will only encourage more inappropriate behaviour. This is best left off a public forum.
As you wish, I wouldn't want you getting into trouble now.
Actually you do not appear to have been discussing roleplaying in this thread so your posting looks more like a derail. This is a roleplaying thread and you are making accusations against the top tier roleplaying guild on the server.
In this thread, perhaps not and again on this forum perhaps not. But I am known to partake in role play in this and other online games. Just because I am not known to you, does not preclude me from being a role player.
Perhaps I am partaking in this discussion as part of my role playing, in that I am playing the part of a someone who wishes to champion the right to role play without interference.
If you're own propaganda machine is to be believed, you act in terms of zone denial to all RPers Erotic or not. Trying to associate me with those things because I disagree with you is flimsy at best. I have on several occasions been victim to inappropriate comments/behaviour in the past from members of various guilds and my only involvement in those matters is as such.
One shouldn't throw stones in glass houses.
I agree that you shouldn't be throwing stones in glass houses. Please provide evidence of these actions and we will action any sanctions swiftly.
Why do you think calling someone "Mentals" is not insulting ?
Wait for it ... .
We are not "greefers" it is you that is saying that.
When you actively engage in the disruption of another persons immersion or RP purely out of :
a) spite
b) pleasure
c) some kind of twisted "mandate"
d) boredom
... then you and your friends count as "crazy" or "mental" .
Kind of rhymes with Dental . :eek:
You need to justify your inappropriate behaviour.
I just did that up above ... and FYI , the 'victim' routine is getting old .
Your Fleet plays the passive & aggressive game in STO ... and it may work there , but you're not ingame here .
Here ppl see you for what you are ... -- and its not the "saviors of Drozana" as you present yourself's as being . :cool:
I thank you for your kind offer of retribution devian666, however the person(s) in question were not of your fleet, to my knowledge and have been dealt with by a higher authority. No further action is required.
When you actively engage in the disruption of another persons immersion or RP purely out of :
a) spite
b) pleasure
c) some kind of twisted "mandate"
d) boredom
... then you and your friends count as "crazy" or "mental" .
Kind of rhymes with Dental . :eek:
I just did that up above ... and FYI , the 'victim' routine is getting old .
Your Fleet plays the passive & aggressive game in STO ... and it may work there , but you're not ingame here .
Here ppl see you for what you are ... -- and its not the "saviors of Drozana" as you present yourself's as being . :cool:
Just look at that. Nice work victim blaming. Just because a group of fake roleplayers get together to try to smear our good name does not justify you being rude and making false accusations.
Clearly I am now the victim of your disturbing attacks in addition to your naming and shaming. I feel sorry for you and I hope you are one day able break the cycle of abuse which rules your life.
I thank you for your kind offer of retribution devian666, however the person(s) in question were not of your fleet, to my knowledge and have been dealt with by a higher authority. No further action is required.
The Elephant in the room here is the unexamined fact, as I have stated numerous times, that the accusations are so incredibly vague. "Griefing" "Ruining Immersion", "Harrassment". The reason that such broad strokes are being used is because the few times that the apparent "crimes" of the fleet in question are described, they are ridiculed as laughable. Dancing? Jumping on the furniture? That's what we are being accused of. Even the single eyewitness report of "flaming" in DS9 last night was even stated by the detractor to have occurred after the roleplayer verbally assaulted the fleet members FIRST.
So I say to you, we are guilty! We are guilty of jumping on the furniture! We are guilty of dancing! Of laughing! Of LIVING! We will never apologize for taking joy in our lives. We will never apologize for playing the game as we want to. We do not interfere with other players, if they find our gameplay "disruptive", that's their issue and their problem. Plenty of other players (even those who dislike our unique gameplay) simply go about their business and continue their own roleplay, and that's perfectly fine. There's room for all of us.
There is no room, however, for the creeping black tide of fascism. That's what this truly is about. This is about a group of highly unstable individuals who want to change the window of "acceptable behavior" to serve their own utter lack of backbone. They want to turn this game into a police state where jumping on the furniture is a bannable offense and we're all wearing the same uniform.
Read this thread and assess the arguments of those who are attacking us. Is this really who you want the GMs to be listening to?
Wow, this is some Alex Jones level stuff right here. These "RPers" are crisis actors staging false flag events in order to conduct jihad against dental.
...there was roleplaying in Drozana? The handful of times I went there before Dental took over, all I ever saw was Mew'Wi Soo the half-Caitian, half-Orion, transgendered and pansexual god-daughter of Kathryn Janeway and Ezri Dax, who's won three Vulcan Scientific Medals of Honor and performed the kolinahr ritual so perfectly for an offworlder that she made an attending master weep in unsuppressed joy. And she wanted hot cyb0rz with me!
It was so bad I had to make a "fat, old and ugly" alternate costume for my Orion to get through there with a minimum of harassment.
Somebody getting uppity about canon? No problem! Just take a deep breath, and repeat after me:
So I say to you, we are guilty! We are guilty of jumping on the furniture! We are guilty of dancing! Of laughing! Of LIVING! We will never apologize for taking joy in our lives. We will never apologize for playing the game as we want to. We do not interfere with other players, if they find our gameplay "disruptive", that's their issue and their problem. Plenty of other players (even those who dislike our unique gameplay) simply go about their business and continue their own roleplay, and that's perfectly fine. There's room for all of us.
There is no room, however, for the creeping black tide of fascism. That's what this truly is about. This is about a group of highly unstable individuals who want to change the window of "acceptable behavior" to serve their own utter lack of backbone. They want to turn this game into a police state where jumping on the furniture is a bannable offense and we're all wearing the same uniform.
I would like to point out that Cryptic's Chief Operating Officer is a guy who advocated instant death for jumping on furniture in Star Trek Online specifically.
Now, Cryptic also supplied fire extinguishers and the like and many employees want people to have fun. But I wouldn't assume they take kindly to an immersion-free (or wildly divergent) take on the Trek IP or the reality of the game setting.
And I'd suggest that it's not fascism if a private corporation maybe starts adopting a few rules about what you do on their property if it upsets other players. Especially since I'd wager there's more incentive for the serious and dour roleplayers to spend money than there is for the people trying to force them to be less serious to spend money.
If they did put some restrictions on you, I'm not sure it would be censorship any more than when they tell you you can't one shot every Borg cube. They set rules. The rules and boundaries are a part of the intended source of fun in a game. Anarchy is not part of the package being offered to you as a player or as a consumer.
I would like to point out that Cryptic's Chief Operating Officer is a guy who advocated instant death for jumping on furniture in Star Trek Online specifically.
Now, Cryptic also supplied fire extinguishers and the like and many employees want people to have fun. But I wouldn't assume they take kindly to an immersion-free (or wildly divergent) take on the Trek IP or the reality of the game setting.
And I'd suggest that it's not fascism if a private corporation maybe starts adopting a few rules about what you do on their property if it upsets other players. Especially since I'd wager there's more incentive for the serious and dour roleplayers to spend money than there is for the people trying to force them to be less serious to spend money.
If they did put some restrictions on you, I'm not sure it would be censorship any more than when they tell you you can't one shot every Borg cube. They set rules. The rules and boundaries are a part of the intended source of fun in a game. Anarchy is not part of the package being offered to you as a player or as a consumer.
May we have a link to the quote? I'm doubting it can be provided as the standard response in asking for any proof of this hearsay has always been a deafening silence. Even if it were true that a single individual in the developer's organization felt that way, it's quite clear that such extreme, draconian measures have not been taken and will not be taken.
The fascism is not on the part of the developers, the fascism is on the part of a microscopic (but highly vocal) minority of players who view the hundreds of thousands of others playing this game as NPCs in their own private fanfics. The calls for standard uniforms, extreme restrictions on behaviour, and the "concentration" of players they dislike in the service of "immersion" is rather telling.
Although Cryptic would be within their rights to set the rules they wish, they have not set any rules that cave into the insane minority.
As for "immersion", "Immersion" is not a key goal in this game. It's rather clear. Cryptic does not care about their players being able to sink into a deep fantasy of really being in Star Trek. They do not care if you cannot bring your Mary Sue to its full realization. They care that *most* people entering the game (including, yes the F2P players) are enjoying themselves. Anything else is simple fanwank.
I would like to point out that Cryptic's Chief Operating Officer is a guy who advocated instant death for jumping on furniture in Star Trek Online specifically.
I'd be interested in an attribution or a source for this. I would also not be opposed to it.
Now, Cryptic also supplied fire extinguishers and the like and many employees want people to have fun. But I wouldn't assume they take kindly to an immersion-free (or wildly divergent) take on the Trek IP or the reality of the game setting.
How very odd that they chose not to include this in the Terms of Service, then. I would suggest that Starfleet Dental and its sister fleets Shutup Wesley and Nerds of Prey diverge less from canon than the vast majority of RP fleets; we do not seek to inject ourselves into canon, and do not claim to be related to <canon character>.
And I'd suggest that it's not fascism if a private corporation maybe starts adopting a few rules about what you do on their property if it upsets other players. Especially since I'd wager there's more incentive for the serious and dour roleplayers to spend money than there is for the people trying to force them to be less serious to spend money.
I think that the fascism argument was directed exclusively at one person who was strongly intimating that they should be the ultimate arbiter in what constitutes "Role play" versus "harassment". And who said that people he didn't like should wear identifiable clothing and be concentrated in zones where they cannot interact with anyone else. I'm sure you can work out why this raised the spectre of fascism without my needing to explain it further.
If they did put some restrictions on you, I'm not sure it would be censorship any more than when they tell you you can't one shot every Borg cube. They set rules. The rules and boundaries are a part of the intended source of fun in a game. Anarchy is not part of the package being offered to you as a player or as a consumer.
Cryptic have already put restrictions on everyone already: that's the Terms of Service. The suggestions here have been that either the ToS should be selectively enforced, or that there should be different ToS depending on which fleet/faction/race/uniform you're using. That suggestion should be deeply offensive to anyone, even if they aren't wearing the verboten uniform, joined the 'wrong' fleet or clicked the 'wrong' race/faction in the character select screen.
I find it highly amusing that a fleet which uses a terror uniform (like the shock troops in dune) and complete uniformity to force others out of areas.
Calls me a fascist for suggesting that people should have to wear UNIFORMS when they are in the military
This same fleet believes in "freedom of speech" UNLESS you happen to be
TRIBBLE
Female
Non English speaking
Under 21
Or Celibate
and routinely asks people if they are TRIBBLE
The same fleet claims to protect "minors" but harrassed a 14 year old girl who asked DIRECTIONS
The same fleet says it opposes Errotic roleplay and chases decent people dressed as strippers and performs a suggestive (and inappropriate) dance
The same fleet denys it is itself fascist and goes on about American freedoms
Well get this you are less american than the people you are trying to force to quit
I find it highly amusing that a fleet which uses a terror uniform (like the shock troops in dune) and complete uniformity to force others out of areas.
Calls me a fascist for suggesting that people should have to wear UNIFORMS when they are in the military
This same fleet believes in "freedom of speech" UNLESS you happen to be
TRIBBLE
Female
Non English speaking
Under 21
Or Celibate
and routinely asks people if they are TRIBBLE
The same fleet claims to protect "minors" but harrassed a 14 year old girl who asked DIRECTIONS
The same fleet says it opposes Errotic roleplay and chases decent people dressed as strippers and performs a suggestive (and inappropriate) dance
The same fleet denys it is itself fascist and goes on about American freedoms
Well get this you are less american than the people you are trying to force to quit
As a lifetimer/share holder/homosexual male, I find your fascism incredibly rude. Go away.
Calls me a fascist for suggesting that people should have to wear UNIFORMS when they are in the military
Ok , sadly you sound like a fascist .
Seriously tho , why do you continue to mash two separate points into one post time and time again ?
The Mentals and their ilk did not put dance emotes , non military clothing or fire extinguishers into the game .
Cryptic did that .
If you want to protest against that , make a new thread about those issues .
But don't confuse and obfuscate clothing and dancing with the actual deliberate and vicious trolling that became the routine @ Drozana once you-know-who showed up .
There are plenty of posts that talk about real trolling ... , and for the "proof" maniacs in this thread , here are just a few :
I also note that nothing in those accusations is actually trolling or griefing. It's just "wahh, people are acting weird around me and its breaking my immersion". Simply more mewling from the minority of oversensitive RPers
sometimes all the proof you need is someone denying it
for example if a politician denied being looking for promotion he is lying
I do not seek to ban ev suits from the game merely from social areas
The same going for bathing suits outside of beach resorts
and formal wear on the battle bridge
and none of you know what Fascist actually means it seems
Im in favour of law , order and the will of the majority (this is called democracy and is what you get when you are a civilised nation)
Free speech comes with the right of the listeners to throw things
Comments
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
I think that "perspective" has left this thread a long time ago ... .
Going down in memory lane I seem to remember some fun dance party's @ Drozana and ESD .
At least a dozen of ppl dancing all over the place , fire extinguishers , party poppers the works .
The above is what registers as "Fun times" for me .
Ppl invited other ppl because there was a dance party .
What made it fun was that it was fun for everybody .
Now take that , and put it against ppl trying to RP (yes , even ERP) , and getting fire extinguishers in their face other trollish behavior aimed at them .
Dance Party = Cool .
Bothering RP ppl intentionally (or any ppl intentionally 4 that matter) = not very cool .
That's how I see things
Word .
Yeah , except New Drozana is so ugly , I doubt the "fun" factor will be the same ... , even for the Mentals .
I don't recall personally attacking any individual ... , and wasn't it "your side" that tooted the horns of "free speech" in this thread first ?
That door swings both ways you know .
Oh , and a greefer complaining about personal attacks is funny, I have to admit .
Why do you think calling someone "Mentals" is not insulting?
We are not "greefers" it is you that is saying that. You need to justify your inappropriate behaviour.
You should also learn about fighting words. Fighting words are not protected as free speech.
I am not in a position to say whether or not you cause server queues, that being said Denial of Service attacks aren't uncommon on the internet. None the less one should be careful about being accused of such things.
If you're own propaganda machine is to be believed, you act in terms of zone denial to all RPers Erotic or not. Trying to associate me with those things because I disagree with you is flimsy at best. I have on several occasions been victim to inappropriate comments/behaviour in the past from members of various guilds and my only involvement in those matters is as such.
One shouldn't throw stones in glass houses.
As you wish, I wouldn't want you getting into trouble now.
In this thread, perhaps not and again on this forum perhaps not. But I am known to partake in role play in this and other online games. Just because I am not known to you, does not preclude me from being a role player.
Perhaps I am partaking in this discussion as part of my role playing, in that I am playing the part of a someone who wishes to champion the right to role play without interference.
Very good, carry on. I have no wish to join Dental. I have my own fleet which I am happy to contribute to.
I agree that you shouldn't be throwing stones in glass houses. Please provide evidence of these actions and we will action any sanctions swiftly.
Wait for it ... .
When you actively engage in the disruption of another persons immersion or RP purely out of :
a) spite
b) pleasure
c) some kind of twisted "mandate"
d) boredom
... then you and your friends count as "crazy" or "mental" .
Kind of rhymes with Dental . :eek:
I just did that up above ... and FYI , the 'victim' routine is getting old .
Your Fleet plays the passive & aggressive game in STO ... and it may work there , but you're not ingame here .
Here ppl see you for what you are ... -- and its not the "saviors of Drozana" as you present yourself's as being . :cool:
Just look at that. Nice work victim blaming. Just because a group of fake roleplayers get together to try to smear our good name does not justify you being rude and making false accusations.
Clearly I am now the victim of your disturbing attacks in addition to your naming and shaming. I feel sorry for you and I hope you are one day able break the cycle of abuse which rules your life.
That is good to hear.
So I say to you, we are guilty! We are guilty of jumping on the furniture! We are guilty of dancing! Of laughing! Of LIVING! We will never apologize for taking joy in our lives. We will never apologize for playing the game as we want to. We do not interfere with other players, if they find our gameplay "disruptive", that's their issue and their problem. Plenty of other players (even those who dislike our unique gameplay) simply go about their business and continue their own roleplay, and that's perfectly fine. There's room for all of us.
There is no room, however, for the creeping black tide of fascism. That's what this truly is about. This is about a group of highly unstable individuals who want to change the window of "acceptable behavior" to serve their own utter lack of backbone. They want to turn this game into a police state where jumping on the furniture is a bannable offense and we're all wearing the same uniform.
Read this thread and assess the arguments of those who are attacking us. Is this really who you want the GMs to be listening to?
First, they came for the Dentals...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
*tries to see how many players can fit in the Drozana light fixture*
DENTAL HOUUUUUUUUUUUSE! *shakes fist*
It was so bad I had to make a "fat, old and ugly" alternate costume for my Orion to get through there with a minimum of harassment.
Spock's Brain.
I would like to point out that Cryptic's Chief Operating Officer is a guy who advocated instant death for jumping on furniture in Star Trek Online specifically.
Now, Cryptic also supplied fire extinguishers and the like and many employees want people to have fun. But I wouldn't assume they take kindly to an immersion-free (or wildly divergent) take on the Trek IP or the reality of the game setting.
And I'd suggest that it's not fascism if a private corporation maybe starts adopting a few rules about what you do on their property if it upsets other players. Especially since I'd wager there's more incentive for the serious and dour roleplayers to spend money than there is for the people trying to force them to be less serious to spend money.
If they did put some restrictions on you, I'm not sure it would be censorship any more than when they tell you you can't one shot every Borg cube. They set rules. The rules and boundaries are a part of the intended source of fun in a game. Anarchy is not part of the package being offered to you as a player or as a consumer.
May we have a link to the quote? I'm doubting it can be provided as the standard response in asking for any proof of this hearsay has always been a deafening silence. Even if it were true that a single individual in the developer's organization felt that way, it's quite clear that such extreme, draconian measures have not been taken and will not be taken.
The fascism is not on the part of the developers, the fascism is on the part of a microscopic (but highly vocal) minority of players who view the hundreds of thousands of others playing this game as NPCs in their own private fanfics. The calls for standard uniforms, extreme restrictions on behaviour, and the "concentration" of players they dislike in the service of "immersion" is rather telling.
Although Cryptic would be within their rights to set the rules they wish, they have not set any rules that cave into the insane minority.
As for "immersion", "Immersion" is not a key goal in this game. It's rather clear. Cryptic does not care about their players being able to sink into a deep fantasy of really being in Star Trek. They do not care if you cannot bring your Mary Sue to its full realization. They care that *most* people entering the game (including, yes the F2P players) are enjoying themselves. Anything else is simple fanwank.
I'd be interested in an attribution or a source for this. I would also not be opposed to it.
How very odd that they chose not to include this in the Terms of Service, then. I would suggest that Starfleet Dental and its sister fleets Shutup Wesley and Nerds of Prey diverge less from canon than the vast majority of RP fleets; we do not seek to inject ourselves into canon, and do not claim to be related to <canon character>.
I think that the fascism argument was directed exclusively at one person who was strongly intimating that they should be the ultimate arbiter in what constitutes "Role play" versus "harassment". And who said that people he didn't like should wear identifiable clothing and be concentrated in zones where they cannot interact with anyone else. I'm sure you can work out why this raised the spectre of fascism without my needing to explain it further.
Cryptic have already put restrictions on everyone already: that's the Terms of Service. The suggestions here have been that either the ToS should be selectively enforced, or that there should be different ToS depending on which fleet/faction/race/uniform you're using. That suggestion should be deeply offensive to anyone, even if they aren't wearing the verboten uniform, joined the 'wrong' fleet or clicked the 'wrong' race/faction in the character select screen.
Cyber sex is called sexting nowadays
Calls me a fascist for suggesting that people should have to wear UNIFORMS when they are in the military
This same fleet believes in "freedom of speech" UNLESS you happen to be
TRIBBLE
Female
Non English speaking
Under 21
Or Celibate
and routinely asks people if they are TRIBBLE
The same fleet claims to protect "minors" but harrassed a 14 year old girl who asked DIRECTIONS
The same fleet says it opposes Errotic roleplay and chases decent people dressed as strippers and performs a suggestive (and inappropriate) dance
The same fleet denys it is itself fascist and goes on about American freedoms
Well get this you are less american than the people you are trying to force to quit
As a lifetimer/share holder/homosexual male, I find your fascism incredibly rude. Go away.
And as a person who isn't going round abusing people in drozana I find your grasp of the word "fascist" poor
so you "go away"
And I'm pretty sure they are hardcore trolls .
Ok , sadly you sound like a fascist .
Seriously tho , why do you continue to mash two separate points into one post time and time again ?
The Mentals and their ilk did not put dance emotes , non military clothing or fire extinguishers into the game .
Cryptic did that .
If you want to protest against that , make a new thread about those issues .
But don't confuse and obfuscate clothing and dancing with the actual deliberate and vicious trolling that became the routine @ Drozana once you-know-who showed up .
There are plenty of posts that talk about real trolling ... , and for the "proof" maniacs in this thread , here are just a few :
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=7576631&postcount=6
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=4657321&postcount=4
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=7695761&postcount=63
(FYI the last one contains more Mental name & shaming)
I also note that nothing in those accusations is actually trolling or griefing. It's just "wahh, people are acting weird around me and its breaking my immersion". Simply more mewling from the minority of oversensitive RPers
for example if a politician denied being looking for promotion he is lying
I do not seek to ban ev suits from the game merely from social areas
The same going for bathing suits outside of beach resorts
and formal wear on the battle bridge
and none of you know what Fascist actually means it seems
Im in favour of law , order and the will of the majority (this is called democracy and is what you get when you are a civilised nation)
Free speech comes with the right of the listeners to throw things