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No Scimitar Yet ?

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  • arvistaljikarvistaljik Member Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    in the movie, the scimitar appeared as the most powerful ship ever for weapons and shields, and it was also very nimble.

    As far as "nimble" goes, it could out-maneuver a Sovereign-class starship. All it takes to do that is a turn rate of 8, since the Sovereign's turn rate is 7.
  • insanerandomnesinsanerandomnes Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Patience, let the devs have their vacation now, and stop whining how not everythings in there. They've done a darn good job this time around with their release.

    The Scimitar will come. The romulans need a flagship too match the bortasq and odyssey anyways. It'll be a three pack, and I highly doubt it'll be a carrier.
    I AM THE HARBINGER OF HOPE!
    I AM THE SWORD OF THE RIGHTOUS!


    dark_dreadnaught_by_insane_randomness-d5z6ydl.jpg
  • drkfrontiersdrkfrontiers Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Too strong/not unique enough (IMO).

    Should be 2 SCI slots.
    Should be 3 base turn rate (make it the toughest/slowest ship in the game by far).
    Should be 5 fore 2 aft weapons.

    I think these changes would make it play significantly different from any other ship

    So you believe that a ship that has absolutely no turn rate which will be an escorts delight bent over a table, with only two aft weapons that will probably ever see the light of day, because you cannot maneuver impresses you?!

    Give me one sound reason why a modified D'deridex that has been vastly improved upon, should maneuver worst than existing D'deridex in the game.

    A base three turn rate? J@3u3 wept.

    This is why there are so many issues with mechanics in this game. Because you get given what you ask for.

    This is reasonable. It has the firpower of the cannon ship, and it should be at the very least as manu. as a dreadnought cruiser.

    CMDR TAC
    LTC UNI
    LTC SCI
    LT ENG

    HULL 42,000
    Turn Rate: 6
    FORE: 5
    AFT: 2

    ENG: 3
    SCI: 2 (+1 Fleet)
    TAC: 4

    Impulse mod.: .20
    Inertia: 40

    Bonus: +10 weapons, +10 Engines
  • ariusdecimusariusdecimus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    So you believe that a ship that has absolutely no turn rate which will be an escorts delight bent over a table, with only two aft weapons that will probably ever see the light of day, because you cannot maneuver impresses you?!

    Contemplate 5 fore weapons for a moment. You'd be out damaging Escorts (or at least matching them) while being the toughest cruiser in the game. Then throw in the fact that it's a carrier. So, it's wicked OP. But, it also destroys the balance of the Romulan ships.

    Same turn rate as D'Deridex. On your setup, same amount of weapons. Way better shields. Way better hull. Has fighters. Makes sense?

    Tell me, is 5 turn rate going to get you anywhere against an Escort? Have you ever even fought an Escort?
    Give me one sound reason why a modified D'deridex that has been vastly improved upon, should maneuver worst than existing D'deridex in the game.

    Balance.
    A base three turn rate? J@3u3 wept.

    That was some epic 1337 sp34k there.
  • drkfrontiersdrkfrontiers Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Contemplate 5 fore weapons for a moment. You'd be out damaging Escorts (or at least matching them) while being the toughest cruiser in the game. Then throw in the fact that it's a carrier. So, it's wicked OP. But, it also destroys the balance of the Romulan ships.

    Same turn rate as D'Deridex. On your setup, same amount of weapons. Way better shields. Way better hull. Has fighters. Makes sense?

    Tell me, is 5 turn rate going to get you anywhere against an Escort? Have you ever even fought an Escort?



    Balance.



    That was some epic 1337 sp34k there.

    Why even promote the Scimitar as a carrier/ cruiser? I don't care about the film but am pretty sure it was not portrayed as a carrier. Nor has it ever fulfilled that role in STO.

    I care about giving the Romulans something that is not the typical cruiser/ battlecruiser as we are up to our ears in slow flying ships when the direction of game-play is going counter to that.

    Whats wrong with 5 weapons slots on a slow turning ship? Whats op about it? Its lost a weapons slot for that? So how is a slow turning ship with 5 fore weapons more OP to a 5 TAC console Kumari with weak hull? Ones deadly and turns on a dime, the other deadly and can take a beating.

    As to your last comment? Not sure that's really necessary.
  • avengerkid1993avengerkid1993 Member Posts: 323 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Oh men, i have a better idea:
    let make it the first ship with 0 turn rate ... what do you think ?

    LOL

    the scimitar has 3 main characteristics:
    - high agility
    - unmatched firepower
    - two shields

    (well ... there is the thalaron weapon, but let's forget it for now).


    so:
    1 - you can't pretend to make it a flying brick.
    2 - it should have at least 5 fore weapons (like the andorian escorts)
    3 - it should have high shield modifier, or two shields, as you prefer.

    i said:

    5-1 weapon slots
    1.2 - 1.3 shield mod
    27K hull (or even less if you prefer)
    4-3-3 console slot
    12 turn rate
    0.2 impulse modifier
    300+ crew

    cmd tac
    lt. cmd tac
    lt. tac
    lt. eng
    ens. univ

    its a science-escort hybrid ship
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I think it will be a 10 console 3 pack cruiser like the Bortasqu and Odyssey. I hope it doesn't get a hangar, ships have to give up stuff like weapon slots or stats for that. It has some scorpions in Nemesis, but that is more like just a shuttlebays worth it isn't a full on carrier. All of its stats need to be dedicated to making the Scimitar itself a powerful fighter. Scorpion fighters could be one of the 3 pack consoles instead like how the Ody and Bortas get pet consoles, just the Scimitars should launch fighter squadrons instead of a frigate.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • kregorkregor Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    5-7 turn or I hope we never get it.

    Why? Because that's a perfectly fine turn rate if you aren't a daft Escort Junkie with zero knowledge of current (as of LoR's release) gameplay mechanics.
  • rhinzualrhinzual Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Quite agree!

    I, personally, prefer(ed) playing sci, which has become obsolete. STO has vey much become a DPS race and the Scimitar will do nothing but reinforce that.

    Man, I hate the whole dps race thing. On my Tier 4 Raptor with 3xDHC/1xQuantum Torp/2xTurrets, I just melt anything that I glare at when compared to my engineer in the Tier 5 KDF Cruiser using the Beamboat build (turn rating is not great for torps).

    The Scimitar would have to be retooled so much that you wouldn't even recognize it as the Scimitar from Nemesis aside from how it looks. Plus it'd still be stuck with base 40 power like all other Romulan ships.
  • avengerkid1993avengerkid1993 Member Posts: 323 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    rhinzual wrote: »
    Man, I hate the whole dps race thing. On my Tier 4 Raptor with 3xDHC/1xQuantum Torp/2xTurrets, I just melt anything that I glare at when compared to my engineer in the Tier 5 KDF Cruiser using the Beamboat build (turn rating is not great for torps).

    The Scimitar would have to be retooled so much that you wouldn't even recognize it as the Scimitar from Nemesis aside from how it looks. Plus it'd still be stuck with base 40 power like all other Romulan ships.

    I don't think so.
    I fought some scimitars since the LOR was released, and they did not explode like other romulan ships, so i think they haven't a singularity warp core, but a normal matter/antimatter warp core.
  • quiiliitiilaquiiliitiila Member Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I don't think so.
    I fought some scimitars since the LOR was released, and they did not explode like other romulan ships, so i think they haven't a singularity warp core, but a normal matter/antimatter warp core.

    Most likely because the devs either missed the scimitar NPCs or just don't care.

    It's also possible they are holding out until they make the playable Scimitars to replace the old NPC scimitars. Kinda like what they did with a bunch of Gorn, Nausican and Orion ships back when they released the new playable ones.

    If we see a playable Scimitar, you can bet your bottom dollar that the NPC models/mechanics will see a change as well.
  • thumpyechothumpyecho Member Posts: 298 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ...some peeps in another forum said that dstahl "said" it would be a three-pack.....

    ....let see if I can do this:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=720421

    the particular individual does not source his comment, but nonetheless....
  • avengerkid1993avengerkid1993 Member Posts: 323 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    well, pack or not, it should have something special:

    i'd say to make it like the Ha'Feh - Ha'Nom - Ha'Apex Warbirs:
    one that should be like a science vessel, one that should be like an escort, and one like a cruiser.

    or even better:

    An Escort-Science Hybrid
    A Science-Cruiser Hybrid
    A Cruiser-Escort Hybrid
  • cryptkeeper0cryptkeeper0 Member Posts: 989 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    thumpyecho wrote: »
    ...some peeps in another forum said that dstahl "said" it would be a three-pack.....

    ....let see if I can do this:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=720421

    the particular individual does not source his comment, but nonetheless....

    d stahl didn't say it was 3- pack only that the ship is coming as playable ship.
    He also said that romulans would get a 3-pack flagship

    That does not mean the scimitar
  • thumpyechothumpyecho Member Posts: 298 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    d stahl didn't say it was 3- pack only that the ship is coming as playable ship.
    He also said that romulans would get a 3-pack flagship

    That does not mean the scimitar


    ....that's why I put quotes around said.....I personally have not seen these comments.....so I do not know what replier #3 (in the linked thread) was referencing, since no one challenged him in that thread, I treated with caution......
  • cidstormcidstorm Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    d stahl didn't say it was 3- pack only that the ship is coming as playable ship.
    He also said that romulans would get a 3-pack flagship

    That does not mean the scimitar

    Since the Ha'apax or Ha'akon or whatever weren't really released as a three pack I'm now inclined to believe the Scimitar could be a three pack.
  • hugoredbonehugoredbone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I see it more like this:

    Romulan Scimitar Dreadnought

    FORE WEAPONS: 4
    AFT WEAPONS: 4

    WARP: Singularity

    SHIELD MOD: 1.20
    HULL: 47.000
    TURN: 4
    IMPULSE MOD: 0.15
    Inertia rating 25
    Crew 4000

    POWER BONUS: +10 Weapons, +10 shield power
    Romulan Battle Cloak
    Can Equip Cannons
    Hanner Bays 2: default - Scorpion Fighters

    ENG SLOT: 4
    SCI SLOT: 3
    TAC SLOT: 3

    Boff:
    CMD: Eng
    LTCom: Tac
    LTCom Sci
    LT Uni


    Special Weapon or Console: Cascading Biogenic Pulse

    I would buy it for 2500 Zen.

    If it is going to be a carrier it's definitely not going to have 4/4 weapon slots.

    More like 3/3 or 4/3 at best.
    They aren't going to give it 47k hull. That's just too much for a non-fleet carrier.

    That power bonus combination is highly unlikely as well.
  • aexraelaexrael Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Since others are pondering stats, here's another guess.

    Class: Scimitar Dreadnought
    Rank: Vice Admiral Tier 5

    Warp Core: Thalaron Generator

    Hull: 42000
    Crew: 2200
    Shield Modifier: 1.2
    Turn Rate: 6
    Inertia rating: 20
    Impulse Modifier: 0.16

    Weapons Fore: 4
    Weapons Aft: 2
    Can equip dual cannons

    BOFF Layout:
    Com: Tac
    LTCom Eng
    LT Sci
    LT Uni

    Hangar Bays:2
    Device Slots:4
    Consoles (T.E.S.): 4 4 2
    Bonus Power: +10 weapon power, +10 shield power
    Abilities: Romulan Combat cloak, Cascading Biogenic Pulse, Carrier Commands
  • cryptkeeper0cryptkeeper0 Member Posts: 989 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    cidstorm wrote: »
    Since the Ha'apax or Ha'akon or whatever weren't really released as a three pack I'm now inclined to believe the Scimitar could be a three pack.

    Not saying that it won't end up being the scimitar but its also equally likely that they are separate ships and both are 3 packs or just one, I hope both or they are the same.
  • quiiliitiilaquiiliitiila Member Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Q: (mertyol) Is there a possibility we might get a Scimitar class that is a Carrier?

    Dstahl: We?ll be making an announcement about the Scimitar class later in June, so I don?t want to spoil anything just yet.

    This was in the latest Ask Cryptic, somehow the way he says "making an announcement about" really concerns me. It makes it sound like there is going to be some over the top incredibly difficult way to get the ship while not being in a lock box...

    Hopefully I'm just being paranoid.

    JUST SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY CRYPTIC!!!!!
  • hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    This was in the latest Ask Cryptic, somehow the way he says "making an announcement about" really concerns me. It makes it sound like there is going to be some over the top incredibly difficult way to get the ship while not being in a lock box...

    Hopefully I'm just being paranoid.

    JUST SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY CRYPTIC!!!!!

    Yeah, the last time he said something like that we found out that it would take an arm and a leg to get the Typhoon in game. Which means it's likely to mean that the Scimitar is not likely to be a playable ship.
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • tpalelenatpalelena Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I think the scimitar would make a great 3 ship pack .
    Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
  • wotertoolwotertool Member Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    So during the time I scrolled through all the site and answers I thought. don't add it - that also was my opinion right befor I found that thread. Simply because it was THE best built warship in it's time in the known Alpha/Beta Quadrant. I don't know if it would have made it against a Tactical Borg Cube since they can adapt every sh*t they get hit with, but on the last 2 sites, I changed my mind.

    Give it
    2 shilds / high shield multiplier
    at least 5 forward firing weapons
    a high maneuverability
    Cmdr and LtCmdr Tac, LtCmdr Eng and a Lt Sci or something like that (I'm not familiar with other BO layouts of all the other ships in STO)

    OR

    1 standard shild
    4 forward firing weapons 1 backward
    an average maneuverability
    the f*cking ability to shoot ALL weapons while it's cloaked with shilds up!

    That's what the Scimitar Class made it so dangerous!



    Actually I still hope they will never ever release it for us. While I played STO I was disappointed that it went into "mass" production. Well I guess the Tal Shiar found those scientist- and engineer Remans which developed this ship and used them for a new Tal Shiar Fleet.
  • seskalwolfeseskalwolfe Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I have a possible compromise for the argument of turn rate vs Forward weapons. Clearly, assuming there is consensus this ship should happen eventually, lets hit what we DO agree on. Forward weapons more than aft canon (no puns to see here, move along) ships 5/1, 5/2 etc. Yet most think turn rate should be slow for the size. Yet movie, and ingame scimitars move quite well. So how about the following.

    I agree, make this the flagship for the RR. 3 Ships, 3 consoles.
    Deploy Plasma Mine Wall (Tac)
    Plasma Cascade wave (Sorry, the Republic will never use Thalaron, I agree, oh, and Sci)
    Independent Cloak Generator (Eng) (Edit: Forgot to mention, if not obvious, let you fire torps cloaked)

    All 3 consoles give a maneuver bonus. However, this engine/turn rate bonus is amplified by Battle Cloak. (Say, .40Impluse, turn rate 13 when cloaked, but only .15, turn rate 4-5 decloaked)
    Think about it, Donatra's scimitar in KA, you have enough time to stomp one side when she decloaks, but she seems to reposition and turn too easy when she runs. Sela in the Leihval(sic) similar though not as often (didn't steal enough Borg tech from Hakeev). This will let players use the 5 forward weps without too much overpowered, and still give a sense of flying an STO scimitar, if not Shinzon's.

    For the record, I agree, that the scimitar should join the Jupiter as NPC Boss only, yet the Vo'quv is the only DN the NPC KDF uses, and it's playable. The answer is a new badass KDF Boss ship, not making the jupiter playable. I'm split on the scimitar as the frame for the RR Flag, oddy and bortasqu are new, the Rep should be making a new, almost star cruiser like explorer as their flag, to represent the change in attitude, not reusing a weapon of mass destruction their enemies designed.
    If you aren't enough without it, you'll never be enough with it.
  • sosolidshoesosolidshoe Member Posts: 174 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    seskalwolfe - you have to remember that players aren't NPCs. If you give a player scimitar the same turn rate as an NPC scimitar, by the time you factor in power settings, power skills, engine mods, RCS, Tachyokinetic Converter, Tactical career skills, etc etc etc what you end up with is nonsense like the Mogai/Valdore in the hands of a player, where a ship that's shown onscreen as graceful and maneuverable flys like you're watching a jerky sped-up stop-motion film of a ship moving. My Adapted Destroyer is bigger than an Odyssey but it turns almost on the spot, and I was actively trying to avoid that outcome.

    What they need to do is put a hard-cap on the maneuverability of ships based on their class, and then make weapons other than DHCs a viable choice.

    We are PWE. Your forums and game accounts will be added to our own. Your community will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • wotertoolwotertool Member Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I have a possible compromise for the argument of turn rate vs Forward weapons. Clearly, assuming there is consensus this ship should happen eventually, lets hit what we DO agree on. Forward weapons more than aft canon (no puns to see here, move along) ships 5/1, 5/2 etc. Yet most think turn rate should be slow for the size. Yet movie, and ingame scimitars move quite well. So how about the following.

    I agree, make this the flagship for the RR. 3 Ships, 3 consoles.
    Deploy Plasma Mine Wall (Tac)
    Plasma Cascade wave (Sorry, the Republic will never use Thalaron, I agree, oh, and Sci)
    Independent Cloak Generator (Eng) (Edit: Forgot to mention, if not obvious, let you fire torps cloaked)


    Why only torpedos? I mean, yes, if torpedos would at least fill their role as main weapon, okay, but they are not in STO (don'T know why). You refered to the film, it had shields online during the time it was cloaked and could fire all weapons. Give this to the playerbase or simply don't introduce it for us. It will look stupid when everyone is flying a Reman Prototype Ship which suddenly got mass produced but waaaaaaaaay weaker than the original.
  • arvistaljikarvistaljik Member Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    wotertool wrote: »
    Why only torpedos? I mean, yes, if torpedoes would at least fill their role as main weapon, okay, but they are not in STO (don'T know why). You referred to the film, it had shields online during the time it was cloaked and could fire all weapons. Give this to the player base or simply don't introduce it for us. It will look stupid when everyone is flying a Reman Prototype Ship which suddenly got mass produced but waaaaaaaaay weaker than the original.

    Actually it may not be true that the Scimitar could fire all of its weapons while cloaked. During the movie, the only weapons we see fire and the only weapons Shinzon tells his tactical officer to fire are disruptors. Not once does he even mention the use of photon torpedoes.

    So why not just flip the cloaking ability of the existing Enhanced Romulan Battle Cloak on the T'Varo? Instead of being able to fire only torpedoes, the Scimitar can only fire energy weapons and further limit that to only being able to fire turrets and cannons (as that's what we see in the movie) and not beam weapons.

    You want canon, that's as close as you're going to get based on what we see and hear in Nemesis.
  • nastyhyenanastyhyena Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    So why not just flip the cloaking ability of the existing Enhanced Romulan Battle Cloak on the T'Varo? Instead of being able to fire only torpedoes, the Scimitar can only fire energy weapons and further limit that to only being able to fire turrets and cannons (as that's what we see in the movie) and not beam weapons.

    I would approve of this. And, because energy weapons fire more often than torps, they may even be able to get away with it not causing you to decloak when you fire.

    Why do I say this? Because it would be easier to track the beams and bolts back to their source, to the point that your sensors could burn through the cloak.
  • wotertoolwotertool Member Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Actually it may not be true that the Scimitar could fire all of its weapons while cloaked. During the movie, the only weapons we see fire and the only weapons Shinzon tells his tactical officer to fire are disruptors. Not once does he even mention the use of photon torpedoes.

    So why not just flip the cloaking ability of the existing Enhanced Romulan Battle Cloak on the T'Varo? Instead of being able to fire only torpedoes, the Scimitar can only fire energy weapons and further limit that to only being able to fire turrets and cannons (as that's what we see in the movie) and not beam weapons.

    You want canon, that's as close as you're going to get based on what we see and hear in Nemesis.

    Good, I've forgot about the Torpedos.

    Cannons and Turrets only while being cloaked, with high maneuverability and shilds would be fine for me (since I won't use it) but I guess that PvP would be Romulan-KDF Scimitar vs Romuland-FED Scimitar. And nobody could shoot each other because they don't know the cloacking frequencies. - also not a problem for me.

    I still support the idea NOT to make it available for the playerbase. It's simply too good for the STO mechanics with a 4-4 weapon system instead of a powerful phaserphalanx and torpedos as main weapons. / Cannons for the Defiant.
  • yaru80yaru80 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    My ideas for a Scimitar bundle


    - Proposals 3 part set -

    Set-Part 1 - Universal Console Secondary Shield grid

    gives permanent a secondary shield with 25% of the main shield. That eats 100% of the damage that has penetrated the main shield, including plasmafire and transphasic.

    This 25% secondary shield should remain active during the stealth and then act as a normal shield.

    Set-Part 2 - Universal Console Thalaron matrix

    Granted a 6th singularity ability Thalaron-xxxx I find no name for it,
    which increasing in effectiveness with singularity levels, but then also increases the cooldown.

    Set-Part 3 - Universal Console Reman prototype cloaking device

    gives a bonus to stealth, as well as granting a active power allowing to fire all weapons for 6 seconds while cloaked, 2 minute cooldown.

    Set Bonus 1 (2 parts)

    Passive turning rate bonus +10%, +10% Shield regeneration

    Set Bonus 2 (3 parts)

    Passiv reduce cooldowns of Reman prototype cloaking device and Thalaron matrix by 25%

    - Proposals for ship types -

    1 All variants

    Hull 42500
    Shield x1.2
    Rate of turn 7
    Crew 1000
    Battlecloak and Dual Cannons

    Tactical - Scimitar-class
    [Design, we know the Scimitar]

    Weapons 5 front, 1 rear
    Hangar bays 0
    Energy +15 weapons, +5 engine

    Consoles
    5 Tactical
    3 Engineering
    2 Science

    BO's
    Com. tactic
    Lt. engineering
    Lt. science
    2x Lt. universal

    Engineering - Praetor-class
    [Design, shorter wings and reinforced, wider central Hull with a integrated hangar bay

    Weapons 4 front, 3 rear
    Hangar bays 1 (frigates and fighters]
    Energy +10 weapons, +10 shields

    Consoles
    5 Engineering
    4 Tactical
    1 Science

    BO's
    Lt. tactic
    Com. engineering
    Lt. science
    2x Lt. universal

    Science - Tal'aura class
    [Design, Reinforced wings with intergrated hangar bays and a hangar bay below the central Hull

    Weapons 4 front, 2 rear
    Hangar bays 3 (1x only frigates, 2x only fighters]
    Energy +5 weapons +15 auxiliary power

    Consoles
    5 Science
    3 Tactical
    2 Engineering

    BO's
    Lt. tactic
    Lt. engineering
    Com. science
    2x Lt. universal
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