The cryo-pulsewave had its damage reduced by 25% against other players, but not against NPCs. This change was made because no armor besides environmental suits have cold resistance. Do NPCs also have energy damage resistance, but no cold resistance? If so, does that mean that the cryo-pulsewave will become the preferred ground weapon for PvE?
Also, can we get the equipment, passives, and active ability added to the vendor on DS9 for testing?
What's the changes they were making to award boxes from missions? Weren't they adding in nakura marks to the current boxes; or are new boxes dropping? My brain is fried..lol
Anyone know this? Should we be holding on to our REquesition:Elite boxes form hards or no?
Grabbed stuff from the test vendor... and was disappointed.
There is 1 thing worth getting in the whole reputation system: [Console - Universal - Nukara Particle Converter] and that is if you run beams on your ship.
The rest of the Nukara Appropriated Munitions set consists of a Hyper-Dual Refracting Tetryon Beam Bank Mk XII and a Nukara Web Mine Launcher Mk XII. For me neither is worth acquiring: beam bank would force a change in energy type and the mine a change in tactics.
The Shattering Harmonics Sword and Shield are ok.
The sword is a decent melee weapon, and I can see possibly getting it for my sci officers in case I need to whack Armek.
The shield is good as a stand-alone shield, but with the STF sets it has no place in my kit.
The Crystalline Nanofiber set is meh...
The Cryo Launcher has one the ugliest weapon models in all of STO (please replace it with the model of the leveless weapon), and the weapon has woefully too slow rate of fire against Tholians (I prefer automatic weapons against the Tholians).
[Hangar - Elite Tholian Widow Fighters] add a tetryon dual beam bank and Beam Fire at Will I. Not terribly impressed.
Nukara space set:
Engines are fast, but otherwise unimpressive.
Deflector is a defensive oriented one, especially suited for... escorts. The stats are weak.
Shields are uninspired resilient type shields. Only interesting bit is the 1% reflect.
The 2 piece power is nice: fix weapon disabled every 4 seconds.
Refracting Tetryon weapons... the ones in the store were all with [Dmg]x2 making them not worth the 28k+ Dil price sticker.
Combine this with the low rewards from Nukara and possible other missions... no thanks.
The rest of the Nukara Appropriated Munitions set consists of a Hyper-Dual Refracting Tetryon Beam Bank Mk XII and a Nukara Web Mine Launcher Mk XII. For me neither is worth acquiring: beam bank would force a change in energy type and the mine a change in tactics.
This is fine, and pretty much by-design. Not every item is intended to be useful to every player, every build. The Romulan Rep has a Beam Array, e.g., and not every player/ship uses beams.
The shield is good as a stand-alone shield, but with the STF sets it has no place in my kit.
This is not STF-quality gear. I thought the inclusion of an EV suit as part of the set would've caused that to be a given. This equipment is intended to be more on-par with items obtained from the Romulan Reputation, not Omega.
Refracting Tetryon weapons... the ones in the store were all with [Dmg]x2 making them not worth the 28k+ Dil price sticker.
The items on the Tribble store are only a small sampling. The Reputation Store unlocks will contain all variants of these weapons - the full combination of Acc, CrtD, CrtH and Dmg mods, in just about every combination.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
This equipment is intended to be more on-par with items obtained from the Romulan Reputation, not Omega.
In other words, a second rep system no one cares about.
No offense Bort, but "more stuff like the Romulan rep" is the last thing this game needs. A rep that requires more effort to get inferior items makes absolutely no sense at all. You're asking people to (again) grind marks, make NO DILITHIUM, then are asked to chip in LOTS OF DILITHIUM for projects means you've doubled your workload by even attempting to gain items of that kind compared to STF gear. Why would anyone even *want* to do that, for reasons other than Pokemon "gotta catch 'em all" syndrome?
(Edited for grammar cleanup.)
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
Yeah Bort, I think you guys need to rethink your goals here- non STF gear being inferior to STF gear was acceptable when STF missions were the endgame, but with reputation access gated to level 50, and all access to these items gated by rep projects, there should be NO difference in power level between omega, romulan, tholian, or whatever other reputation you guys decide to do- because it's ALL endgame stuff.
This should not be inferior to Omega, because Omega is no longer the endgame- and in your very own words, not every item should be useful to every individual in every situation- but with the insistence that 'omega is endgame, everything else should be inferior', you're forcing a false choice dichotomy when you really shouldn't.
All rep is endgame, so it should be on par with eachother rather than having one set be superior to another across the board because the means to get it used to be 'harder'.
And to be completely honest? Romulan and Tholian rep are HARDER to grind than Omega, because STFs are easier, faster, and more fun than the comparative missions and zones for Romulan and Tholian rep.
By that standard, Romulan and Tholian rep items should be BETTER than Omega, because Omega is far, *far* easier to do.
This is not STF-quality gear. I thought the inclusion of an EV suit as part of the set would've caused that to be a given. This equipment is intended to be more on-par with items obtained from the Romulan Reputation, not Omega.
In all honesty, what's the point of introducing new toys that are by design worse than something already in the game? Not to mention, if the latter stuff is arguably way easier to obtain (just run Elite STFs for tons of omega marks instead of bothering tagging epohs or doing the same dailies over and over for few rom marks)?
As it is, the only thing I'm interested in from the Nukara Reputation are the Elite Widow Fighters. And that's only because I can't see my Fleet reaching Tier 5 Science Facilities anytime soon (mostly due to medical doffs being so rare...).
Thanks for the feedback. Allow me to reply to a few specific points:
This is fine, and pretty much by-design. Not every item is intended to be useful to every player, every build. The Romulan Rep has a Beam Array, e.g., and not every player/ship uses beams.
I know. I did say "for me".
This is not STF-quality gear. I thought the inclusion of an EV suit as part of the set would've caused that to be a given. This equipment is intended to be more on-par with items obtained from the Romulan Reputation, not Omega.
I was looking outside the box for uses. The major problem is the two tier approach where the Omega is the pinnacle. You are intentionally limiting the options for "top tier" gear, you should be offering multiple "top tier" sets. Not just the KHG/Omega/M.A.C.O. trinity, which frankly is getting boring.
Is there a tactical reason for this, or is it just a preference?
Both. Automatic weapons allow for engaging targets at longer range. I use pulsewaves (when I use them) at very close ranges. And I actually have the Mk XII Cryo Launcher on one of my toons (on Holodeck), I found the performance lacking (for me) compared to a Mk XII Sonic Minigun.
Why escorts? Why weak? Details, if you don't mind.
Why weak? I compared it (Mk XII) against a Mk XI Borg Deflector. Why escorts? All bonuses directly enhance survival with main boosts to shields with some Power Insulators and Inertial Dampeners thrown in. This is one of the most defensive oriented deflectors I've seen.
The items on the Tribble store are only a small sampling. The Reputation Store unlocks will contain all variants of these weapons - the full combination of Acc, CrtD, CrtH and Dmg mods, in just about every combination.
Good to know. I still find the 28k+ price tag not worth it, I managed to persuade myself to equip a Vo'quv and a Wells with Romulan Plasma weaponry, but I cannot see myself getting a set of Refracting Tetryons for my Recluse.
Let me be clear. I have no actual issue with any of this gear per se, or with a Nukara faction.
I do think though, there's one of two things that has to happen that will improve rep factions going forward:
- Gear (and missions) more in line with the Borg STF stuff. Legitimate endgame content that produces legitimate endgame rewards, and gear. This would require re-balancing of mission difficulty and reward structure.
OR
- Rep systems that open up at lower levels with their current gear (Nukara, New Romulus).
The problem with the second is you either have to (a) make marks much easier to aquire so it's actually possible to have stuff well before you reach 50 OR (b) redesign the game to level SIGNIFICANTLY slower than it does now. Because if you don't do one of those, you end up back where you are now (Omega or bust).
The second option is hard to see how it works without fundamentally redesigning the game. Now, I would actually *like* to see a rep faction that opened up from level 30. Story missions are a weak point in this game engine and will likely remain so forever. Having other things to do would be a massive relief. To me that would actually expand the things you can do in this game, a lot. But for anything in that mythical system to be achievable before you reach level 50 would require A LOT of things to happen.
Just throwing out "this is a Level B rep faction that awards Level B gear even though you play it side by side with Level A" doesn't work, though.
Until we have factions that offer a reward vs time in line with the Omega faction, everything else is choosing to play with one hand tied behind your back. And if Omega somehow ends up getting the nerf hammer out of this, a lot of people (myself included) will find something else to do with our time besides this game. Because it's bad design to go that way.
The new Nimbus adventure zone opens up some interesting possibilities here going forward. But again, at the current pace of leveling, the discussion is all theory and more or less moot.
I hope this was somehow constructive.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
I agree with the rest of the posters. Before reputations, I was willing to accept that the Aegis and Jem Hadar XI set were "not endgame gear" Anything reputation should be endgame gear and be comparable, but have qualities that differentiate it.
You guys really need to rethink this, STFs are only the hardest content due to the strategy involved and the task of getting 5 players to work together. The reputation missions can be harder, but in shorter bursts. Such as Tholians that spawn invisible one shooting mines behind you, or bad grouping of enemies, both of which are mission/critter design problems really....
Either way, saying this gear is not "endgame" and limiting the rep system to level 50 instead of 40 makes the gear pointless and a waste of everyone's time. I personally think the rep system should start at 40 as only an idiot or someone who can't wait for a specific feature would waste resources on Mark X gear at level 50 instead of waiting until Mark XII gear is unlocked. On top of that Mark XII versions should definately be on par with end game Mark XII Omega
join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
The Tholian space set (shield deflector and engines) is a fine anti Tholian set, but why would we use that? Azure Nebula isn't hard and the Red alert has been nerfed. We need unique gear when it helps us to overcome unique challenges. There's no challenges against the Tholian, thus this set is useless. The same logic applies to the ground sets.
The only good element is the mine launcher. This is a piece of gear anyone can use, that's why it's good. I have a ship with tetryon, but it's an escort, so, unfortunately, i can't use any of the set pieces, because the DBB isn't for escorts and the universal console has been designed for sci ships. It's good to see something to boost science ships, don't get me wrong, but everyone should be able to get the +10% to acc. If you think beams needs a buff buff beams and make special gear for everyone.
I'll chime in with my agreement as well. If STF gear is the ONLY end game gear then why bother with the rest for anyone? For that matter, why have Mark XII gear that isn't "end-game?"
If Romulan and Nukara Rep gear is supposed to be inferior to STF/Omega gear, I suggest re-costing the Romulan and Nukara gear to cost significantly less in Dilithium and Marks than Omega.
There's nothing wrong with having old toys do new things. I like the idea of the Nukara space weapons, for example. But if it won't be on part with what Omega Force gets, then the cost structure needs to be re-thought for non-Omega reputation systems.
If Romulan and Nukara Rep gear is supposed to be inferior to STF/Omega gear, I suggest re-costing the Romulan and Nukara gear to cost significantly less in Dilithium and Marks than Omega.
There's nothing wrong with having old toys do new things. I like the idea of the Nukara space weapons, for example. But if it won't be on part with what Omega Force gets, then the cost structure needs to be re-thought for non-Omega reputation systems.
Also, this.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
Thanks for the feedback. Allow me to reply to a few specific points:
.
Really? Ten pages of feedback and you respond to a single post?
====
I am in agreement with everyone else. Being that rep is an end game activity by virtue of only being unlocked once you hit level cap, the gear inside should ALL be eng game gear and roughly comparable in power, though utility on a per situation basis can differ.
Also, even at the same level of usefulness, being harder to get because of how hard it is to get marks makes omega gear the be all end all anyways. All the stuff needs to be rougly on the same level or there's no reason for us to bother getting it which means there's no reason for you to make it.
If I'm having to grind Nukara rep at the same time as I grind Omega rep, but all the Omega stuff is clearly better on purpose, why am I grinding Nukara rep?
I thought the idea of reputations was to provide alternatives to Omega gear, not lower quality stuff.
And to be completely honest? Romulan and Tholian rep are HARDER to grind than Omega, because STFs are easier, faster, and more fun than the comparative missions and zones for Romulan and Tholian rep.
By that standard, Romulan and Tholian rep items should be BETTER than Omega, because Omega is far, *far* easier to do.
I definitely agree with this sentiment. The days of STF sets being Gozer's status symbol gear are long over. I get that there is an opinion that "forced team content" gear should be inherently better because this is a MMO and by golly those playing on a team need something to show those who aren't into team play that they suck and are doing it wrong.
Better rewards for choosing one play style over another are just stupid. There's no reason all the rep system rewards should not be given equal effectiveness.
Yeah Bort, I think you guys need to rethink your goals here- non STF gear being inferior to STF gear was acceptable when STF missions were the endgame, but with reputation access gated to level 50, and all access to these items gated by rep projects, there should be NO difference in power level between omega, romulan, tholian, or whatever other reputation you guys decide to do- because it's ALL endgame stuff.
This should not be inferior to Omega, because Omega is no longer the endgame- and in your very own words, not every item should be useful to every individual in every situation- but with the insistence that 'omega is endgame, everything else should be inferior', you're forcing a false choice dichotomy when you really shouldn't.
All rep is endgame, so it should be on par with eachother rather than having one set be superior to another across the board because the means to get it used to be 'harder'.
And to be completely honest? Romulan and Tholian rep are HARDER to grind than Omega, because STFs are easier, faster, and more fun than the comparative missions and zones for Romulan and Tholian rep.
By that standard, Romulan and Tholian rep items should be BETTER than Omega, because Omega is far, *far* easier to do.
At least from a new level 50's perspective, I'd think the project cooldowns on Romulan and Omega rep should be lower.
If the gear is intended to be inferior, it should be faster to get.
Yeah Bort, I think you guys need to rethink your goals here- non STF gear being inferior to STF gear was acceptable when STF missions were the endgame, but with reputation access gated to level 50, and all access to these items gated by rep projects, there should be NO difference in power level between omega, romulan, tholian, or whatever other reputation you guys decide to do- because it's ALL endgame stuff.
I'm going to echo this. In my opinion, the Reputation system should open up at level 45. After all, you don't need to be level 50 to do an STF on normal. Shouldn't you be able to earn the gear if you can play the content?
And while those levels may not be "endgame" they're close enough. The lower-end rep gear would be more than fine for that level of play, wouldn't it? The higher end stuff should be close to, if not equal to, STF gear.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
If I'm having to grind Nukara rep at the same time as I grind Omega rep, but all the Omega stuff is clearly better on purpose, why am I grinding Nukara rep?
I thought the idea of reputations was to provide alternatives to Omega gear, not lower quality stuff.
Not only is it better on purpose, but it's far, *far* easier to get.
A single elite STF run will get you between 75 and 100 omega marks, and that'll take you about half an hour.
Half an hour running new romulus, or grinding Nukara will net you... maybe 30 marks if you're lucky?
So yeah. Why are we putting lightyears more effort into getting deliberately inferior items? Exactly?
That "STF is the endgame" line only worked when STF's were the endgame. Now all this level 50 rep based content is the endgame, and frankly it's just insulting that you guys are continuing to spout the 'STFs are endgame, non STF gear can't be as good' line when your reasons for doing so are tautological.
Not to mention y'all are stuck on "STFs are endgame" when what you actually mean is "Borg is Endgame"- If y'all want STFs to be endgame, make some ******n romulan/tholian STF missions.
Or don't, because the only reason we'd need those is so that you, Cryptic, can stop feeling like you have to make deliberately inferior gear.
Yeah Bort, I think you guys need to rethink your goals here- non STF gear being inferior to STF gear was acceptable when STF missions were the endgame, but with reputation access gated to level 50, and all access to these items gated by rep projects, there should be NO difference in power level between omega, romulan, tholian, or whatever other reputation you guys decide to do- because it's ALL endgame stuff.
I agree with this completely. If the Romulan/Tholian stuff is not supposed to be "end game"
competitive, then they should be easier and/or faster to get. Ideally, I think all the reputation sets
should be equally good.
Joined in March, 2011. Lifer since December, 2011.
Adding my voice to the choir, that it is the intended design for new reputation systems to be worse than Omega rep is bizzare. It explains why the Romulan/Reman sets are so horrible though. I guess that the Romulan weaponry was so good was just an accident because no one on the team thought about the ramifications of introducing Sci consoles that boost plasma weapons and thus give them an edge over other weapon times. (Which is also bizare).
I mean really?
All three reputation systems start at the same time and take the same amount of marks,time and comparable amount of commodities and other inputs to progress.
We can earn 4 times as many omega marks than any other kind by doing elite STFs. Which good players can blow through in 5 minutes a map. (And which are still fun after all this time, at least IMO).
OR
We invest 4 times as much time doing more complicated but boring (mostly because of the complete lack of difficulty) missions to earn inferior gear.
??????
There are times I'm forgetting all the old Cryptic mis-steps, when I play the new Romulan missions on tribble and I can just enjoy the game and be enthusiastic about its future.
But then there is always threads like this that completely and utterly baffle me. I'm at a loss for words.
Foreword: I don't want to be understood as just bashing, rude or in any way to be insulting. I hope to answer to this thread in order to give feedback and hope you can use my Point-of-view on this.
This is fine, and pretty much by-design. Not every item is intended to be useful to every player, every build. The Romulan Rep has a Beam Array, e.g., and not every player/ship uses beams.
Why is there no love for players who prefer cannons? Romulans have a Beam, Tholians get a beam. STF has no weapon beside the Torpedo, but Romulans have this too. Don't want to de-value Beams in any way, but if you wanted variation you should have had thrown in cannons.
This is not STF-quality gear. I thought the inclusion of an EV suit as part of the set would've caused that to be a given. This equipment is intended to be more on-par with items obtained from the Romulan Reputation, not Omega.
Situational use of those EV Suits. Who runs around with EV suits other than on required missions and Nukara? And when I am done with Nukara - which I definetly am, I don't have any use for it since I already have my MACO Armor. So why should I even want to get this?
Hearing Tholian items being no STF quality gear in the eyes of the developers enlightens my whole approach to this reputation quite a lot. You are not realy advertising your product in a good light here.
1. Stating that you do not want it to be as good as endgame gear.
2. You still place this reputation at endgame only
3. Pricing the costs still as high as STF gear
4. Making Stats and items not appropriate in regards worth vs. costs
5. Making the Reputation Project costs higher than previous Rep Projects
6. Making the Reputation Project durations still as high as STF (endgame) durations
and most important:
8. Earning of Reputation marks so little and limited that the grind factor scala explodes.
Considering facts 1-8, is it still a fair set-up in the way you want it to promote?
In my eyes it is not nearly fair.
Why escorts? Why weak? Details, if you don't mind.
It is completly set up as a defense deflector. But I am fine with it. We have that with STF gear too. The MACO Deflector is quite a defense deflector too. But again, why should I bother getting this one if I already have the MACO?
-> skip on this
Engines: we have these stats with already earned gear. Not really worth getting.
-> skip on this
Shield: again, a comparison shows it's bonus is in the game already. A radiation resistance is laughable. Where would this help me? The only NPC which used Radiation damage in Space is the Recluse Carrier and it is not nearly dangerous for me. I can stay in the aura and still perform without any risk. EPtS or TSS and I am negating the effect to minimum danger level. Therefore, I can have the bonus of the costly item at no cost.
-> skip on this
The items on the Tribble store are only a small sampling. The Reputation Store unlocks will contain all variants of these weapons - the full combination of Acc, CrtD, CrtH and Dmg mods, in just about every combination.
I have a complete Tetryon set up and I replaced it with a Plasma build. If I want Tetryon, I go and equip it and am done.
The refracting effect is utterly useless if you ask me. Sure, it is a new effect and perhaps makes it interesting design-wise but looking what it does for me is nothing in the end.
I have to get the 2.5% proc chance and then have again a so minimal chance that this unique effect will trigger. In addition I need at least another enemy who by chance is in the near area/radius of the targeted ship in order to apply.
In order to gain any benefit from this unique effect I rely on 3 luck / random factors. Let's be honest and answer the question: when and under which circumstances do we see those 3 factors in the game at the same place and time?...
-New reputation abilities! (Now to finish my first two Rep Systems....)
-Refracting Tetryon! (I've yet to see this make a meaningful benefit to my space combat, but hey, it's new.)
-New sets! (I'm glad to see increasing equipment diversity. Thank you. [Also thank you for removing a certain set from the Lobi store and putting it here. The compensation prize is also fair.])
-The new EV suits seem about as effective as regular old armor. (Either this or regular armor makes no noticeable difference in combat....[Regular armor = end-game vendor trash])
The Cons::
-No warp cores in the new space sets. (Me sad. Me like things that make me go.)
-All beams. (Where da cannons, yo?! No love for torps?)
-The visuals of the space set. (Nukara Impulse Engine = Borg visuals.)
The Downright Uglies:
-The Nukara Final Reputation Ability. (When activated, this monstrosity of an ability... um... doesn't actually do anything. [It's literally a three minute cooldown on nothing.])
-The ground Rep abilities. (It won't let me slot the testing devices, so... who knows, they could be terrible. I honestly have no idea at this point.)
-The rate of in-game Nukara Marks. (Or lack thereof.)
I'm going to echo this. In my opinion, the Reputation system should open up at level 45. After all, you don't need to be level 50 to do an STF on normal. Shouldn't you be able to earn the gear if you can play the content?
And while those levels may not be "endgame" they're close enough. The lower-end rep gear would be more than fine for that level of play, wouldn't it? The higher end stuff should be close to, if not equal to, STF gear.
45 isn't nearly early enough to have any meaningful impact at all.
There is no way to earn enough marks from 45 to 50 to both level up rep and have anything left over for meaningful gear.
30 might do something. Even then I don't really see how you'd be able to earn enough marks to tier up and buy gear before 50 with the way the game works. But that leads to needing to redesign the entire system, essentially.
It's endgame content, and should be treated as such. Putting equipment out there during endgame content and then saying "well, see its not actually supposed to be good" is indefensible.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
The rest of the Nukara Appropriated Munitions set consists of a Hyper-Dual Refracting Tetryon Beam Bank Mk XII and a Nukara Web Mine Launcher Mk XII. For me neither is worth acquiring: beam bank would force a change in energy type and the mine a change in tactics.
This is fine, and pretty much by-design. Not every item is intended to be useful to every player, every build. The Romulan Rep has a Beam Array, e.g., and not every player/ship uses beams.
As for the various sets requiring you to do different things if you want the various bonuses, etc, etc, etc - it seems kind of straight forward. They're themed sets. They're not just mo' powah, mo' powah. By limiting them, you're doing the opportunity cost thing - rather than the oozing power creep thing...which is nifty, imho. Whether one is talking the New Rom, Omega, or Nukara stuff.
Might be a little off-topic, ahem, but the New Rom 2pc Harness bonus is a bonus to DEW/DEW DoT Plasma Damage when the 2 pieces could be the Array and Torp. Doesn't buff the Torp's DoT. Ahem, okay...just saying. Cause it's one thing with set stuff not working well with all non-set stuff, but the stuff within the set should work - no?
The items on the Tribble store are only a small sampling. The Reputation Store unlocks will contain all variants of these weapons - the full combination of Acc, CrtD, CrtH and Dmg mods, in just about every combination.
Think this is good to point out...a little more...for the folks that may have unlocked any of the store weapons with the New Rom Rep and may not realize that.
That being said though, won't [Dmg]x2 kind of throw the testing off because of how it affects the Tet Proc?
And to be completely honest? Romulan and Tholian rep are HARDER to grind than Omega, because STFs are easier, faster, and more fun than the comparative missions and zones for Romulan and Tholian rep..
Emphasis mine
This is key. Romulan rep was an incredible chore to do because it was mostly boring. The one highlight was the space alerts that are STILL bugged so that when you get there... its all empty and you warp out. But even that's only a fraction as interesting as the STFs were (and can be depending on the pug).
No one would really care if the Tholian rep gave out terrible or mediocre stuff if there were quality STFs tied to them. Instead we're asked to grind Nukara, the Tau Dewa bugged alert, azure neb, and the vault all over again.... Bort, please let the guys in charge know... we NEED more fun STFs. Hive was alright but we NEED MORE! And we need them ASAP!
I'm sorry but man, its not hard to figure this stuff out. Other games have endgame content as well as rep grinds. Why is it in STO its thought to be ok to forego the interesting, meaty part of the endgame and only put out the daily grind reputations? It'd be like WOW keeping its dailies but dropping its raids. I understand they're hard to do and aren't directly tied to a revenue generator for Cryptic but you HAVE to convince the guys upstairs that STFs are needed. And they are needed now.
Edit: Mine Trap was the best way to get Rom marks, but much like the Base Incursion it gets old really fast if that's the one fun way to get marks.
Comments
I am grinding Nukara marks but it's dreadfully slow going at the current rate.
Also, can we get the equipment, passives, and active ability added to the vendor on DS9 for testing?
Anyone know this? Should we be holding on to our REquesition:Elite boxes form hards or no?
There is 1 thing worth getting in the whole reputation system: [Console - Universal - Nukara Particle Converter] and that is if you run beams on your ship.
The rest of the Nukara Appropriated Munitions set consists of a Hyper-Dual Refracting Tetryon Beam Bank Mk XII and a Nukara Web Mine Launcher Mk XII. For me neither is worth acquiring: beam bank would force a change in energy type and the mine a change in tactics.
The Shattering Harmonics Sword and Shield are ok.
The sword is a decent melee weapon, and I can see possibly getting it for my sci officers in case I need to whack Armek.
The shield is good as a stand-alone shield, but with the STF sets it has no place in my kit.
The Crystalline Nanofiber set is meh...
The Cryo Launcher has one the ugliest weapon models in all of STO (please replace it with the model of the leveless weapon), and the weapon has woefully too slow rate of fire against Tholians (I prefer automatic weapons against the Tholians).
[Hangar - Elite Tholian Widow Fighters] add a tetryon dual beam bank and Beam Fire at Will I. Not terribly impressed.
Nukara space set:
Engines are fast, but otherwise unimpressive.
Deflector is a defensive oriented one, especially suited for... escorts. The stats are weak.
Shields are uninspired resilient type shields. Only interesting bit is the 1% reflect.
The 2 piece power is nice: fix weapon disabled every 4 seconds.
Refracting Tetryon weapons... the ones in the store were all with [Dmg]x2 making them not worth the 28k+ Dil price sticker.
Combine this with the low rewards from Nukara and possible other missions... no thanks.
This is fine, and pretty much by-design. Not every item is intended to be useful to every player, every build. The Romulan Rep has a Beam Array, e.g., and not every player/ship uses beams.
This is not STF-quality gear. I thought the inclusion of an EV suit as part of the set would've caused that to be a given. This equipment is intended to be more on-par with items obtained from the Romulan Reputation, not Omega.
Is there a tactical reason for this, or is it just a preference?
Why escorts? Why weak? Details, if you don't mind.
The items on the Tribble store are only a small sampling. The Reputation Store unlocks will contain all variants of these weapons - the full combination of Acc, CrtD, CrtH and Dmg mods, in just about every combination.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
In other words, a second rep system no one cares about.
No offense Bort, but "more stuff like the Romulan rep" is the last thing this game needs. A rep that requires more effort to get inferior items makes absolutely no sense at all. You're asking people to (again) grind marks, make NO DILITHIUM, then are asked to chip in LOTS OF DILITHIUM for projects means you've doubled your workload by even attempting to gain items of that kind compared to STF gear. Why would anyone even *want* to do that, for reasons other than Pokemon "gotta catch 'em all" syndrome?
(Edited for grammar cleanup.)
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
This should not be inferior to Omega, because Omega is no longer the endgame- and in your very own words, not every item should be useful to every individual in every situation- but with the insistence that 'omega is endgame, everything else should be inferior', you're forcing a false choice dichotomy when you really shouldn't.
All rep is endgame, so it should be on par with eachother rather than having one set be superior to another across the board because the means to get it used to be 'harder'.
And to be completely honest? Romulan and Tholian rep are HARDER to grind than Omega, because STFs are easier, faster, and more fun than the comparative missions and zones for Romulan and Tholian rep.
By that standard, Romulan and Tholian rep items should be BETTER than Omega, because Omega is far, *far* easier to do.
As it is, the only thing I'm interested in from the Nukara Reputation are the Elite Widow Fighters. And that's only because I can't see my Fleet reaching Tier 5 Science Facilities anytime soon (mostly due to medical doffs being so rare...).
My comments in green.
I do think though, there's one of two things that has to happen that will improve rep factions going forward:
- Gear (and missions) more in line with the Borg STF stuff. Legitimate endgame content that produces legitimate endgame rewards, and gear. This would require re-balancing of mission difficulty and reward structure.
OR
- Rep systems that open up at lower levels with their current gear (Nukara, New Romulus).
The problem with the second is you either have to (a) make marks much easier to aquire so it's actually possible to have stuff well before you reach 50 OR (b) redesign the game to level SIGNIFICANTLY slower than it does now. Because if you don't do one of those, you end up back where you are now (Omega or bust).
The second option is hard to see how it works without fundamentally redesigning the game. Now, I would actually *like* to see a rep faction that opened up from level 30. Story missions are a weak point in this game engine and will likely remain so forever. Having other things to do would be a massive relief. To me that would actually expand the things you can do in this game, a lot. But for anything in that mythical system to be achievable before you reach level 50 would require A LOT of things to happen.
Just throwing out "this is a Level B rep faction that awards Level B gear even though you play it side by side with Level A" doesn't work, though.
Until we have factions that offer a reward vs time in line with the Omega faction, everything else is choosing to play with one hand tied behind your back. And if Omega somehow ends up getting the nerf hammer out of this, a lot of people (myself included) will find something else to do with our time besides this game. Because it's bad design to go that way.
The new Nimbus adventure zone opens up some interesting possibilities here going forward. But again, at the current pace of leveling, the discussion is all theory and more or less moot.
I hope this was somehow constructive.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
You guys really need to rethink this, STFs are only the hardest content due to the strategy involved and the task of getting 5 players to work together. The reputation missions can be harder, but in shorter bursts. Such as Tholians that spawn invisible one shooting mines behind you, or bad grouping of enemies, both of which are mission/critter design problems really....
Either way, saying this gear is not "endgame" and limiting the rep system to level 50 instead of 40 makes the gear pointless and a waste of everyone's time. I personally think the rep system should start at 40 as only an idiot or someone who can't wait for a specific feature would waste resources on Mark X gear at level 50 instead of waiting until Mark XII gear is unlocked. On top of that Mark XII versions should definately be on par with end game Mark XII Omega
The only good element is the mine launcher. This is a piece of gear anyone can use, that's why it's good. I have a ship with tetryon, but it's an escort, so, unfortunately, i can't use any of the set pieces, because the DBB isn't for escorts and the universal console has been designed for sci ships. It's good to see something to boost science ships, don't get me wrong, but everyone should be able to get the +10% to acc. If you think beams needs a buff buff beams and make special gear for everyone.
Nouveau riche LTS member
There's nothing wrong with having old toys do new things. I like the idea of the Nukara space weapons, for example. But if it won't be on part with what Omega Force gets, then the cost structure needs to be re-thought for non-Omega reputation systems.
Also, this.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
====
I am in agreement with everyone else. Being that rep is an end game activity by virtue of only being unlocked once you hit level cap, the gear inside should ALL be eng game gear and roughly comparable in power, though utility on a per situation basis can differ.
Also, even at the same level of usefulness, being harder to get because of how hard it is to get marks makes omega gear the be all end all anyways. All the stuff needs to be rougly on the same level or there's no reason for us to bother getting it which means there's no reason for you to make it.
If I'm having to grind Nukara rep at the same time as I grind Omega rep, but all the Omega stuff is clearly better on purpose, why am I grinding Nukara rep?
I thought the idea of reputations was to provide alternatives to Omega gear, not lower quality stuff.
I definitely agree with this sentiment. The days of STF sets being Gozer's status symbol gear are long over. I get that there is an opinion that "forced team content" gear should be inherently better because this is a MMO and by golly those playing on a team need something to show those who aren't into team play that they suck and are doing it wrong.
Better rewards for choosing one play style over another are just stupid. There's no reason all the rep system rewards should not be given equal effectiveness.
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
At least from a new level 50's perspective, I'd think the project cooldowns on Romulan and Omega rep should be lower.
If the gear is intended to be inferior, it should be faster to get.
I'm going to echo this. In my opinion, the Reputation system should open up at level 45. After all, you don't need to be level 50 to do an STF on normal. Shouldn't you be able to earn the gear if you can play the content?
And while those levels may not be "endgame" they're close enough. The lower-end rep gear would be more than fine for that level of play, wouldn't it? The higher end stuff should be close to, if not equal to, STF gear.
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Now theres the best idea ive heard in a long while i second this
Not only is it better on purpose, but it's far, *far* easier to get.
A single elite STF run will get you between 75 and 100 omega marks, and that'll take you about half an hour.
Half an hour running new romulus, or grinding Nukara will net you... maybe 30 marks if you're lucky?
So yeah. Why are we putting lightyears more effort into getting deliberately inferior items? Exactly?
That "STF is the endgame" line only worked when STF's were the endgame. Now all this level 50 rep based content is the endgame, and frankly it's just insulting that you guys are continuing to spout the 'STFs are endgame, non STF gear can't be as good' line when your reasons for doing so are tautological.
Not to mention y'all are stuck on "STFs are endgame" when what you actually mean is "Borg is Endgame"- If y'all want STFs to be endgame, make some ******n romulan/tholian STF missions.
Or don't, because the only reason we'd need those is so that you, Cryptic, can stop feeling like you have to make deliberately inferior gear.
I agree with this completely. If the Romulan/Tholian stuff is not supposed to be "end game"
competitive, then they should be easier and/or faster to get. Ideally, I think all the reputation sets
should be equally good.
Joined in March, 2011. Lifer since December, 2011.
I mean really?
All three reputation systems start at the same time and take the same amount of marks,time and comparable amount of commodities and other inputs to progress.
We can earn 4 times as many omega marks than any other kind by doing elite STFs. Which good players can blow through in 5 minutes a map. (And which are still fun after all this time, at least IMO).
OR
We invest 4 times as much time doing more complicated but boring (mostly because of the complete lack of difficulty) missions to earn inferior gear.
??????
There are times I'm forgetting all the old Cryptic mis-steps, when I play the new Romulan missions on tribble and I can just enjoy the game and be enthusiastic about its future.
But then there is always threads like this that completely and utterly baffle me. I'm at a loss for words.
Why is there no love for players who prefer cannons? Romulans have a Beam, Tholians get a beam. STF has no weapon beside the Torpedo, but Romulans have this too. Don't want to de-value Beams in any way, but if you wanted variation you should have had thrown in cannons.
Situational use of those EV Suits. Who runs around with EV suits other than on required missions and Nukara? And when I am done with Nukara - which I definetly am, I don't have any use for it since I already have my MACO Armor. So why should I even want to get this?
Hearing Tholian items being no STF quality gear in the eyes of the developers enlightens my whole approach to this reputation quite a lot. You are not realy advertising your product in a good light here.
1. Stating that you do not want it to be as good as endgame gear.
2. You still place this reputation at endgame only
3. Pricing the costs still as high as STF gear
4. Making Stats and items not appropriate in regards worth vs. costs
5. Making the Reputation Project costs higher than previous Rep Projects
6. Making the Reputation Project durations still as high as STF (endgame) durations
and most important:
8. Earning of Reputation marks so little and limited that the grind factor scala explodes.
Considering facts 1-8, is it still a fair set-up in the way you want it to promote?
In my eyes it is not nearly fair.
It is completly set up as a defense deflector. But I am fine with it. We have that with STF gear too. The MACO Deflector is quite a defense deflector too. But again, why should I bother getting this one if I already have the MACO?
-> skip on this
Engines: we have these stats with already earned gear. Not really worth getting.
-> skip on this
Shield: again, a comparison shows it's bonus is in the game already. A radiation resistance is laughable. Where would this help me? The only NPC which used Radiation damage in Space is the Recluse Carrier and it is not nearly dangerous for me. I can stay in the aura and still perform without any risk. EPtS or TSS and I am negating the effect to minimum danger level. Therefore, I can have the bonus of the costly item at no cost.
-> skip on this
I have a complete Tetryon set up and I replaced it with a Plasma build. If I want Tetryon, I go and equip it and am done.
The refracting effect is utterly useless if you ask me. Sure, it is a new effect and perhaps makes it interesting design-wise but looking what it does for me is nothing in the end.
I have to get the 2.5% proc chance and then have again a so minimal chance that this unique effect will trigger. In addition I need at least another enemy who by chance is in the near area/radius of the targeted ship in order to apply.
In order to gain any benefit from this unique effect I rely on 3 luck / random factors. Let's be honest and answer the question: when and under which circumstances do we see those 3 factors in the game at the same place and time?...
-New reputation abilities! (Now to finish my first two Rep Systems....)
-Refracting Tetryon! (I've yet to see this make a meaningful benefit to my space combat, but hey, it's new.)
-New sets! (I'm glad to see increasing equipment diversity. Thank you. [Also thank you for removing a certain set from the Lobi store and putting it here. The compensation prize is also fair.])
-The new EV suits seem about as effective as regular old armor. (Either this or regular armor makes no noticeable difference in combat....[Regular armor = end-game vendor trash])
The Cons::
-No warp cores in the new space sets. (Me sad. Me like things that make me go.)
-All beams. (Where da cannons, yo?! No love for torps?)
-The visuals of the space set. (Nukara Impulse Engine = Borg visuals.)
The Downright Uglies:
-The Nukara Final Reputation Ability. (When activated, this monstrosity of an ability... um... doesn't actually do anything. [It's literally a three minute cooldown on nothing.])
-The ground Rep abilities. (It won't let me slot the testing devices, so... who knows, they could be terrible. I honestly have no idea at this point.)
-The rate of in-game Nukara Marks. (Or lack thereof.)
45 isn't nearly early enough to have any meaningful impact at all.
There is no way to earn enough marks from 45 to 50 to both level up rep and have anything left over for meaningful gear.
30 might do something. Even then I don't really see how you'd be able to earn enough marks to tier up and buy gear before 50 with the way the game works. But that leads to needing to redesign the entire system, essentially.
It's endgame content, and should be treated as such. Putting equipment out there during endgame content and then saying "well, see its not actually supposed to be good" is indefensible.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
As for the various sets requiring you to do different things if you want the various bonuses, etc, etc, etc - it seems kind of straight forward. They're themed sets. They're not just mo' powah, mo' powah. By limiting them, you're doing the opportunity cost thing - rather than the oozing power creep thing...which is nifty, imho. Whether one is talking the New Rom, Omega, or Nukara stuff.
Might be a little off-topic, ahem, but the New Rom 2pc Harness bonus is a bonus to DEW/DEW DoT Plasma Damage when the 2 pieces could be the Array and Torp. Doesn't buff the Torp's DoT. Ahem, okay...just saying. Cause it's one thing with set stuff not working well with all non-set stuff, but the stuff within the set should work - no?
Think this is good to point out...a little more...for the folks that may have unlocked any of the store weapons with the New Rom Rep and may not realize that.
That being said though, won't [Dmg]x2 kind of throw the testing off because of how it affects the Tet Proc?
Emphasis mine
This is key. Romulan rep was an incredible chore to do because it was mostly boring. The one highlight was the space alerts that are STILL bugged so that when you get there... its all empty and you warp out. But even that's only a fraction as interesting as the STFs were (and can be depending on the pug).
No one would really care if the Tholian rep gave out terrible or mediocre stuff if there were quality STFs tied to them. Instead we're asked to grind Nukara, the Tau Dewa bugged alert, azure neb, and the vault all over again.... Bort, please let the guys in charge know... we NEED more fun STFs. Hive was alright but we NEED MORE! And we need them ASAP!
I'm sorry but man, its not hard to figure this stuff out. Other games have endgame content as well as rep grinds. Why is it in STO its thought to be ok to forego the interesting, meaty part of the endgame and only put out the daily grind reputations? It'd be like WOW keeping its dailies but dropping its raids. I understand they're hard to do and aren't directly tied to a revenue generator for Cryptic but you HAVE to convince the guys upstairs that STFs are needed. And they are needed now.
Edit: Mine Trap was the best way to get Rom marks, but much like the Base Incursion it gets old really fast if that's the one fun way to get marks.